You forgot the phantasm mesmer that atm are out of the game only because the large amount of aoe.
At the moment? There is always been a large amount of aoe
People saying nerf signet of agility? Are you effing serious?
Crying about Spirit of nature of all things you could kitten about on a Ranger. Of all things the Spirit that once you kill is gone for up to 240 blinking seconds, and has a visible interruptible active skill?
Good kittening lord.
Wtf happened to this forum.
Spirits are immune to crowd control. Ever notice when an AOE pull or anything happens you get a few “Immune” messages on your screen. Those are d/t the rangers spirits.
No I don’t because the spirits are dead as a result of cleave.
One of the few benefits of so much rampant aoe existing in this game which hands it out like hotcakes. It only irritates me once spirits get stacked and at which point you can’t blow all of them up like you would if it was just one ranger.
The spirits boost the entire teams efficiency, it makes sense to kill them or the ranger to cut out the team buffs. but when there is more than one it’s a pain in the kitten .
Who seriously going to say anything but Nature spirit is hard to nuke (and it should be hard to nuke as an elite). Especially when these guys are running without stun breaks and Spirits Unbound puts every spirit in cleave range if you are melee and if you are range you just drop down Nukes as you always have.
Maybe such a thing is hard because the threat of Necro’s has everyone bringing condi’s themselves, when otherwise as per normal spirits would get removed via power damage asap.
At the moment? There is always been a large amount of aoe
People saying nerf signet of agility? Are you effing serious?
Crying about Spirit of nature of all things you could kitten about on a Ranger. Of all things the Spirit that once you kill is gone for up to 240 blinking seconds, and has a visible interruptible active skill?
Good kittening lord.
Wtf happened to this forum.
Arganthium couldn’t wait to take another attack at jumper and post his CS vs DA debacle oh lord.
" I might think “Oh! That’s marvelous. I’d love to do 20% additional damage!”"
No I’m thinking going off projected numbers from the game itself (because I am lazy). Once you put in your zerker/soldier/Valkyrie amulet and max out your power from accessories you have 1839 power.
A backstab does 1619 damage. Adding 300 DA will increase it’s damage 13% if I add dagger training than 18%. So realistically off base 300 DA is more or less 13% damage. 1.5x crit modifier + 13%. Can think of it as 163% crit damage instead of CS 1.8×. Only you crit less and that once Executioner is a factor 30 DA loses out to 30 CS in straight passive damage.
Yes above 50% you do more damage on average but players don’t have 60k health pools, on average isn’t practical because we aren’t whacking on pve mobs long enough for things to balance out. A 9k backstab that lands vs a 4-7k is very significant.
one thing i don’t get is why on earth warrior’s bleeding last soooooo kitten long compared to any other class? like wtf, i want 20sec+ of bleeds on my mesmer and ranger as well
Because originally War only put out bleeding and burning. You have to make up for lack of condition variety somewhere (though it didn’t work).
Yes the passive play is a problem, yes condition meta is silly but instead of nerfing why not add team based removal.
No nerfs, no QQ’ing (well prolly will happen anyways) and promotes good play.
If they’re implementing new skills they can do that down the line. Think they should be careful with condi’s and just address the current application amounts.
Even with the proposed changes to allow the defensive stats to defend against it, do you not realize how ridiculously overpowered this would make conditions? The only way I’d agree to this is if the base damage of all conditions were cut in half.
It would not be overpowered, because damage reduction could reduce the damage done by a bunch if you stack into it.
Toughness/Protection/Weakness would also reduce condition damage.
Think I’ve got a little time before the next Smite match.
It’s well frankly a dumb idea because it’s pointless to begin with.
Let me put it in another way.
Why should condition cause damage at all? They require everything that power damage does and take longer to kill under this proposed system for what benefit.
As it is now the dynamic is
~Power damage + crit can equate to large damage mitigated by toughness and endured by vitality the damage varies on your target.
~Conditions do less damage than power (ideally) but are not mitigated by toughness, so for situations where power damage has been excessively mitigated, condition damage can take over and be a more effective counter for that.
~Lifesteal ignores armor as well and scales on Power, but it cannot crit and the amount of applicants are few in number.
Now we take it that Condition damage works pretty much the same as power, does less damage overall and really has no benefit to existing over power excusing a niche situation like Endure Pain and Protect me. Otherwise might as well run Power because it hits harder for the same requirements and doesn’t get stopped by condition removal.
kitten Conditions can crit.
The idea is stupid.
It gets stopped by blind/aegis/dodge rolls/evades instead. It can also be reduced dramatically.
Let’s take two skills.
Flame strike ~ Elementalist scepter skill, does power damage and causes Burning. In other words it applies condition damage.
Both of these professions press 1.
A warrior hits shield stance.
“Block”
Neither the condition damage or the power damage has gone through.
Just because you can Block AFTER being hit and take condi damage doesn’t mean jack. It be straight out ridiculous if you could, you got hit you should take the damage regardless of it’s over time, but since Anet is merciful there are condition removals and you don’t have to regardless.
A dot that does 150 dmg a second for 5s can have it’s total damage cut in more than half by hitting condi removal the second it is applied. How is that not damage mitigation.
Yes, but if you burned him before he blocked. The fire would still be burning the blocker.
Because. You. Did. Not. Block. The. Flame. Strike.
You cannot be serious.
Brb Let me get hit by Throw Bolas and Hit Aegis and no longer be affected because I Blocked after the application.
Well, Conditions still tick regardless. If you dodge you can miss direct damage and condition application.
However if you hit the condition before that, it still ticks even if he blocks and dodges, meanwhile power will continue to miss.
Even with the proposed changes to allow the defensive stats to defend against it, do you not realize how ridiculously overpowered this would make conditions? The only way I’d agree to this is if the base damage of all conditions were cut in half.
It would not be overpowered, because damage reduction could reduce the damage done by a bunch if you stack into it.
Toughness/Protection/Weakness would also reduce condition damage.
Think I’ve got a little time before the next Smite match.
It’s well frankly a dumb idea because it’s pointless to begin with.
Let me put it in another way.
Why should condition cause damage at all? They require everything that power damage does and take longer to kill under this proposed system for what benefit.
As it is now the dynamic is
~Power damage + crit can equate to large damage mitigated by toughness and endured by vitality the damage varies on your target.
~Conditions do less damage than power (ideally) but are not mitigated by toughness, so for situations where power damage has been excessively mitigated, condition damage can take over and be a more effective counter for that.
~Lifesteal ignores armor as well and scales on Power, but it cannot crit and the amount of applicants are few in number.
Now we take it that Condition damage works pretty much the same as power, does less damage overall and really has no benefit to existing over power excusing a niche situation like Endure Pain and Protect me. Otherwise might as well run Power because it hits harder for the same requirements and doesn’t get stopped by condition removal.
kitten Conditions can crit.
The idea is stupid.
It gets stopped by blind/aegis/dodge rolls/evades instead. It can also be reduced dramatically.
Let’s take two skills.
Flame strike ~ Elementalist scepter skill, does power damage and causes Burning. In other words it applies condition damage.
Both of these professions press 1.
A warrior hits shield stance.
“Block”
Neither the condition damage or the power damage has gone through.
Just because you can Block AFTER being hit and take condi damage doesn’t mean jack. It be straight out ridiculous if you could, you got hit you should take the damage regardless of it’s over time, but since Anet is merciful there are condition removals and you don’t have to regardless.
A dot that does 150 dmg a second for 5s can have it’s total damage cut in more than half by hitting condi removal the second it is applied. How is that not damage mitigation.
Yes, but if you burned him before he blocked. The fire would still be burning the blocker.
Because. You. Did. Not. Block. The. Flame. Strike.
If you did you wouldn’t be taking damage.
If I hit him with Ricochet before he blocked he’d take 800 damage and I would’ve dealt the same (typically more) damage upfront. Are you seriously suggesting that it is a balance concern that someone can Fail to dodge something and then be affected by it because they want to block it now instead of when they should have?
Brb Warrior hits with Throw Bolas and I’m immobilized brb shouldn’t be affected by Immobilize because I used Illusionary Counter afterwards.
Even with the proposed changes to allow the defensive stats to defend against it, do you not realize how ridiculously overpowered this would make conditions? The only way I’d agree to this is if the base damage of all conditions were cut in half.
It would not be overpowered, because damage reduction could reduce the damage done by a bunch if you stack into it.
Toughness/Protection/Weakness would also reduce condition damage.
Think I’ve got a little time before the next Smite match.
It’s well frankly a dumb idea because it’s pointless to begin with.
Let me put it in another way.
Why should condition cause damage at all? They require everything that power damage does and take longer to kill under this proposed system for what benefit.
As it is now the dynamic is
~Power damage + crit can equate to large damage mitigated by toughness and endured by vitality the damage varies on your target.
~Conditions do less damage than power (ideally) but are not mitigated by toughness, so for situations where power damage has been excessively mitigated, condition damage can take over and be a more effective counter for that.
~Lifesteal ignores armor as well and scales on Power, but it cannot crit and the amount of applicants are few in number.
Now we take it that Condition damage works pretty much the same as power, does less damage overall and really has no benefit to existing over power excusing a niche situation like Endure Pain and Protect me. Otherwise might as well run Power because it hits harder for the same requirements and doesn’t get stopped by condition removal.
kitten Conditions can crit.
The idea is stupid.
It gets stopped by blind/aegis/dodge rolls/evades instead. It can also be reduced dramatically.
Let’s take two skills.
Flame strike ~ Elementalist scepter skill, does power damage and causes Burning. In other words it applies condition damage.
Both of these professions press 1.
A warrior hits shield stance.
“Block”
Neither the condition damage or the power damage has gone through.
Just because you can Block AFTER being hit and take condi damage doesn’t mean jack. It be straight out ridiculous if you could, you got hit you should take the damage regardless of it’s over time, but since Anet is merciful there are condition removals and you don’t have to regardless. Unblockable skills are a different beast and aren’t condition exclusive as Larcenous Strike shows.
A dot that does 150 dmg a second for 5s can have it’s total damage cut in more than half by hitting condi removal the second it is applied. How is that not damage mitigation.
Even with the proposed changes to allow the defensive stats to defend against it, do you not realize how ridiculously overpowered this would make conditions? The only way I’d agree to this is if the base damage of all conditions were cut in half.
It would not be overpowered, because damage reduction could reduce the damage done by a bunch if you stack into it.
Toughness/Protection/Weakness would also reduce condition damage.
Think I’ve got a little time before the next Smite match.
It’s well frankly a dumb idea because it’s pointless to begin with.
Let me put it in another way.
Why should condition cause damage at all? They require everything that power damage does and take longer to kill under this proposed system for what benefit.
As it is now the dynamic is
~Power damage + crit can equate to large damage mitigated by toughness and endured by vitality the damage varies on your target.
~Conditions do less damage than power (ideally) but are not mitigated by toughness, so for situations where power damage has been excessively mitigated, condition damage can take over and be a more effective counter for that.
~Lifesteal ignores armor as well and scales on Power, but it cannot crit and the amount of applicants are few in number.
Now we take it that Condition damage works pretty much the same as power, does less damage overall and really has no benefit to existing over power excusing a niche situation like Endure Pain and Protect me. Otherwise might as well run Power because it hits harder for the same requirements and doesn’t get stopped by condition removal.
I am wondering whether CCs documentation has been put through the same level of scrutiny, since nobody at Anet could have foreseen TC getting disqualified until now.
Is it possible that they (Car Crash) will turn out to be ineligible as well?
Wondering that as well, and if they have confirmed that they will attend now.
It’s all unfortunate I’d imagine it’s a headache on Anets side.
I don’t see why people make such a big deal of this. Direct dmg still outputs a great deal more damage than condi and condi is incredibly slow. I’m new to PvP but I would think the counter-strategy is to CC and burst down.
I have no problems in seeing rangers viable. But THIS isnt viable, this is an apex defender spirit ranger with little to none skill floor and extremely effective. They need to be brought down, as Necromancer’s new deathshroud. Check SoloQ picks the majority is necros and rangers trying to hop in the overpowered bandwagon in order to get to the top.
I haven’t played Ranger in quite awhile so I’ll be honest. I don’t know how much skill it feels to play it as a Ranger. To play against it though? Doesn’t feel much different from BM or Trap other than it’s greater team presence. -Insert threat- that is not the Ranger itself and you’ll be on a meta ranger build. Traps? Back in Jan. Pet? BM. Spirit? Current.
Same kitten different day, Ranger has a build it’s not really about the Ranger, cope with it till nerfed in some fashion.
Then a team does it, and kitten s. now its GG NERF RANGERS LOLOL THEY OP FOR 7 DAYS SO FAR OMGGG ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLAY.
Thief try to kill all spirit by spam aoe. Thief dead by double prock storm spirit 5k*2.
Thief kill spirit ranger. Instant self res. In this sense, even the engineers nervously smoking in aside.
Panic strike is fine its a strong trait but its difficult to maintain offensive threat and initiative management when you invest that heavy into DA since DA has no initiative related traits. So most go all in which is obviously high risk.
Well runes of the soldier and Ranger are far more segregating on profession than Lyssa. So who can and cannot take full advantage of Lyssa doesn’t really mean anything.
Balanced builds have no place in the game. You have to stack stats to be effective.
If you don’t get enough toughness you get gibbed. If you don’t get enough power and crit damage you can’t scratch guardians and eles and rangers.
There’s no room for in-betweens.
Please show what one of these Balanced builds looks like.
Builds with 15-10 point investments in the various trees, not 30 and 20 in 3. Builds using celestial amulets or rampager’s amulet for damage delivery variety over stacking damage type.
A build where you can run a power weapon with a defensive condi weapon.
You know, being able to build a hybrid that doesn’t suck majorly.
There should be more diversity and what not but why would throwing 15 in every attribute make you balanced. The trait line was about specializing to your needs, if you just throw 15 in all the traits you’re not really doing it with a purpose.
Now Amulets yeah some of them just don’t work or get picked. I think Celestial amulet may not be that bad (hypothetically) but professions kits aren’t designed to utilize it so it doesn’t work because of that. I mean offensively you need to be doing condi damage as well. Something like Mesmer Sword, Thief sword, Warrior GS. They don’t output condi damage to take advantage of the condi dmg stat so right away that is points wasted. Then you have healing but for that to be significant you need heals to be coming in as well, but that again isn’t a reality for most professions.
I think some of the amulets are not realistic in their stat allocation for what professions can do, so that is why they aren’t used and for you to try and have that many different aspects which take benefit of celestials you’d have to trait in certain ways as well, which obviously then takes away from that idea of throwing 15 in every stat.
Will be easier when replays come out. It’s hard to analyze yourself. You could video tape your play but you won’t be seeing the other side of the picture, what happened when you weren’t there, what they did, etc.
Hmm it’s not because I think Pain response is terrible, but a level of active control would be very much appreciated for when it activates and you don’t get anything significant out of it because of how it is applied.
I am on FC, one of the lower population NA servers. I witnessed a conversation in LA a few days ago that went something like this:
Player 1: Why don’t people go to WvW? We’re always outnumbered.
Player 2: People on this server don’t like to WvW.
Player 3: Yeah, but we don’t PvE that much either.
But, we can sure field a Queensdale zerg or a large group to kill Teq/Shatterer/Fire Ele/SB/Maw.
TL:DR: just because people aren’t flocking to what you like, doesn’t mean there aren’t a lot of people doing something, somewhere on the server.
Im always in the heart of the mists when I am on.
Sorry FC.
From
Gain 10s of regeneration and remove bleeding, poison, and burning when struck and health is below 75%. This effect cannot trigger more than once every 30 seconds.
To
Healing skills and Steal remove 1 additional condition and grant 3s of regeneration.
The condition removal takes place after any condi removal from your Healing skill and the heal itself.
Less of a burst cleanse but greater flexibility, no invisible ICD and it is all active.
Home boy I’ll give you a shout.
Death Blossom isn’t full evade frames there is a delay before the evade frames start and a bit of an after cast before they can do it again.
Because of this if you utilize timing you can prevent future death blossoms with Headshot and even Pistol whip, tactical strike, sleight of hand or Scorpion wire reliably assuming you don’t have significant latency issues.
Simultaneously with a good PW they won’t be able to immediately counteract due to your own evade frames and when your ready you can Shadow return out to prevent him taking advantage of your root.
Don’t over prioritize condi removal here, as generally you there isn’t many to remove in the first place even if venoms are thrown in the occassion. You throw a shadow return in here and there if you make a mistake, otherwise save the ini, and blow him up.
Right now immobilize is very important. But is it overpowered? Hardly. People are quickly realizing the importance of taking stability. However boon stripping isn’t ready available to every class. The best counter they could bring in this situation is immobilization.
Not every team wants to take a necro. They just don’t do enough damage and bring just enough to the table. Mesmers can bring null field to handle stability.
Absurd amounts of immobilization stacking is a problem. I feel 10 seconds of cripple is excessive, but everyone has condition removal at hand. If it really is your bane, then handle it.
Putting immobilization into the list of things that stability counters would make the boon truly unstoppable. The only condition counters to it are currently daze and immobilize. It’s impractical to bring a necro for this one purpose.
Also realistically, you could be as stable as anything and still not be able to take a step. And you could break something that’s stunning you and still not be able to take a step. I don’t see a problem with how it is right now unless someone can single handedly get over 5 seconds of immobilization without putting a huge effort into it by sacrificing damage etc.
Every class has problems against thiefs. Thiefs removed HGH Engis from the Meta. Now they make the life hard for other classes.
It’s always the thief that gets the blame -_- The only thief build that could need a nerf is the S/D evade build. I have no idea why Anet have us larcenous strike since all we wanted was a better pathing on Flanking Strike. But Anet had to mess with a weapon set that worked perfectly…. I think they should revert the change back to what it was and keep the new pathing, then that weapon set will require more skill and it won’t be able to steal all your boons all the time.
All other builds are working ok or are not that good for PvP.
Flanking stab would still need to be more worthwhile then it was that 2nd hit reward was more of a problem than the tracking. That and given everything else they did at the time of the change it be a hard knock life in general as a thief.
It’s not as awful as it once was, and I suppose it might be useful in a group scenario, but 3 seconds is an awful small window for coordination, and can easily be nullified by a teleport/dodge/block/immune. Maybe when the disparity between AA and Unload is addressed, body shot will be in a better place. It’s been a year tho, and P/P is still a thief’s worst set by far.
I completely agree that the 3 second window is too short, but outside of the duration being low it’s pretty much where it needs to be now and doesn’t need a rework. Don’t know why they dropped it to 3s.
No. The point of conditions is to go through passive defense. Adding a passive stat to defend against it would be counter-productive.
Says the necro who wants to continue to overwhelm with conditions everywhere, like i said, people dont want a balance, they want to be over the top, that what they call “balance”.
I would assume though, that eventually, if you play seriously and take it seriously, you will be matched up with like minded players, and if you don’t player seriously or take it seriously, than you will be matched up with those players. That is the ideal scenario, but I’m also going to assume that the system has to be fed a large enough sample size for that to happen.
And if you ever are in the mind to switch between the two because you don’t want to take a game seriously or cassually always and forever…
You.
Are.
Boned.
Until matchmaking changes your position for your change in dedication.
Yea i agree with you duels are not really that important its more for a bit of fun and to show p/p wep set for thief isnt as bad as people think. I do have footage of absolutely dominating in spvp matches with this build uploading them soon. I also realize that pawning in spvp isn’t that impressive as the skill level of some players is absolutely terrible. Tournament footage of the build is next on my list.
No it is as bad as people think.
No one says that P/P can’t kill or gank. It’s just all our options are superior, P/P has a niche that well isn’t significant enough to justify it at the bottom line and it’s risky to take with it’s limited defenses.
Or to put it in perspective.
A mesmer throws down Illusionary Unload. Now that Mesmer has its own P/P thief, better incombat mobility, and more secure damage mitigation while that unload not taking away from its use of utility skills via a initiative system, instead it fuels its illusion mechanic.
I think people talk ill of body shot these days out of habit, the skill is significantly better than it used to be and is starting to line up with what Jon Peters said about the set. Which by extension made P/P a better set as well, but it’s still a duck set and what thief wants to be a duck.
cant you guyz understand it is an mmorpg and it has an mmorpg playerbase and alot playerz in hotjoin just go there to make pvp and dont wanna care for a leaderboard or ranking or tactic or whatever
they jsut go in solo and mess with some wtf-builds or do it with 2-3 friends and so on
this ppl make pvp just to make pvp – to have fun
hotjoin is fine and dont need any change – when you think you need more glory than this ppl or more rankpointz or whatever makes you happy than ask for it but dont force people to play with you when they dont kitten care bout how you think the game have to be.
pvp population in this game is so bad it dont need some wannabe elitists to mess with the casual pvp – JUST NO
this game even need much more casual pvp – like all this event (pvp) activities – dont understand why they dont add this to the hotjoin browser^^
No thanks jef.
They should to convert some weapons to be partially direct armor ignoring damage and re-tune condi application while decreasing the amount of condi removal.
I don’t think anything is wrong with having armor ignoring damage. Conditions do have a counter, it’s removing them, people have lost their minds. You counter conditions by removing them, you increase your time against them (and damage in general) with vitality.
However I think the frequency of how conditions are handed out just doesn’t compute. As well the lack of power armor ignoring options making it feel binary. Now more condi removal keeps getting added which trivializes profs with less condition variety into more power or bunkering, which generally they already are in so it just makes them do less damage in general of which they barely did any.
Even when they get conquest balance to a point where the community feels everything is working, it’ll be a nightmare to introduce a new game mode because then you have to design any new balance changes with both modes in mind.
No you don’t. Given their previous game they certainly do not feel that they have to.
RA wasn’t a balance concern, TA was also pretty much the same.
Unless there was an issue specific to that game mode that wouldn’t affect GvG and HA to a lesser degree, it wouldn’t be changed.
If it was an issue for GvG then it was getting changed and everyone would feel it unless it was split for pvp in which case pve was spared.
Only have to look at Tpvp vs WvW balance.
Any new game mode they add will pretty much be just for fun unless the community loved it more than Conquest and they decided to switch priorities.
Interesting idea but then the door would be open for the opposite progression:
PvP progression from PvE/WvW. Also the reward system would need an overhaul else fresh 80s would emerge from the mists poor and in level 1 gear…
Progress how? Rank? Glory? Only mix I would do is the pvp minigames in pve would give glory, maybe a fraction amount for wvw. Though since glory is near useless it wouldnt matter.
option to turn PvE gear into PvP gear.
They still haven’t changed transmutation stones to do so yet?
I remember trying last year, thought that got changed.
Interesting idea but then the door would be open for the opposite progression:
PvP progression from PvE/WvW. Also the reward system would need an overhaul else fresh 80s would emerge from the mists poor and in level 1 gear…
Progress how? Rank? Glory? Only mix I would do is the pvp minigames in pve would give glory, maybe a fraction amount for wvw. Though since glory is near useless it wouldnt matter.
