Torment on a backstab would be immensely strong, it’s not just the damage, but giving the target the choice between two evils, either move around to avoid the backstab and eat the Torment damage or stand still to avoid the Torment damage and give the thief an easy backstab. So if Torment is readily available to D/x then backstab may need downtuning, or, if backstab is targetted for dwontuning, Torment could be compensation, provided it is relatively easily applied. If they decide to put Torment on a weapon skill like /D dancing daggers, this would
I am not sure a P/D would benefit much, except as defense, as they are mostly ranged and only come into melee for C&D.
Or do you mean literally that you want to do away with the shadowstep, and just steal bundle skill from them at range? I’d be against that personally.
It’s a bit pointless – and dangerous – for a ranged character to have and use a skill that brings him into melee range.
Yesss, I can see it now, “Hey guys, stand all around me for a few secs so I can heal you for 400 and buff you for 2 stack of might”. Wow man, so good.
Tell me where necromancer was mentioned in the entire paragraph for Torment. The condition they’re getting is Tainted Shackles. Simple reading comprehension.
At the start.
“With the introduction of Tainted Shackles, we’ll also be adding a new condition to the game: Torment. …. In looking to expand the condition diversity of thieves and mesmers, we decided to include Torment skills for those two professions as well.”
“as well” implies their giving it to another profession and since the paragraph opens by linking from the Necromancer’s Tainted Shackles to Torment reading that Necromancer’s would get access to Torment isn’t strange at all.
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Base health, basically, unless you have some non-settler items.
P/D should be quite unstoppable with this. Could mix in some Carrion for more damage, Shaman’s for more HP
Play with what you are comfortable with, not what others claim is best.
The extra toughness allows you to stay up front a bit longer giving you the chance to become more experienced with dodging and then you can start swapping berserker pieces back in.
You can get 5 soldier’s pieces for Karma, and all (ruby) orbs in place of runes. that leaves you with 1 armour piece to buy, or craft. Trinkets have to be bought or crafted (don’t bother levelling a crafting skill unless you collect most mats your self)
Now, people often maintain that the sword thief has “perma-evade”. However, given that FS had a half second cast, alongside LS, this clearly isn’t true. As a matter of fact, assuming an infinite amount of #3 spam, consecutively, a player will only be evading 50% of the time.
“Only?”
They take more then 1/2 second each, the full combo seems to take about 2 seconds. so there’s a 25% evade, at best.
…Not only that, rabid/carrion gets you vitality and toughness which just adds to survivability.
No they don’t, there is no armour type that adds Condition Damage, Toughness and Vitality. Carrion adds power and vitality while rabid adds toughness and precision. While power tends to be always useful, even on a condition build, precision is not (as it requires high power and crit damage), making rabid useless.
The implication was that one could use a combination of Rabid and Carrion armor. Also, precision is about proccing on-crit effects, like possibly a sigil of earth or the “gain initiative on crit” trait.
Proccing on crit sigils are not that useful IMO, especially not with a low crit-chance. Cooldowns and low crit-chance – it’s still low even with full Rabid – and the (usually) 30% on crit make them trigger not frequent enough to be of use. And where you put an on-crit sigil, you can’t have another, and the only useful on-crit traits are in critical strikes which is not a trait line usually associated with a condition build.
main hand pistol skills, they’re bad. Why? People keep complaining about stealth thiefs and …
Still, P/D can go anywhere in PvE, and win, and can defeat lots of players in WvW.
…Not only that, rabid/carrion gets you vitality and toughness which just adds to survivability.
No they don’t, there is no armour type that adds Condition Damage, Toughness and Vitality. Carrion adds power and vitality while rabid adds toughness and precision. While power tends to be always useful, even on a condition build, precision is not (as it requires high power and crit damage), making rabid useless.
…
If you want a similar test.. just take a 2 mm thick metal sheet… then take a knife.. and stabb away all you like.. you never gonna hurt the metal.No, I never had a chance to stab plate armor with a Knife
I was to busy you see casting Fireballs at it.
Oh and this one time I had my 5 foot Drake Shoot a Swarm of Insects at it to see how it did.
You might have been too subtle here.
Another issue, Pistol mastery in Crit Strike line? Really? I’d like to take it but CS doesn’t work with condi builds.
Where else? If you have build for damage for the +10% to be effective, then CS is an effective trait to spend points in, if not, then the +10% don’t add all that much.
Do you need the 3 initiative every 45 seconds from Kleptomaniac? Uncatchable or Flanking Strike sounds ok but if you are willing to give them up, do you need Kleptomaniac or could you spend the 5 points somewhere else?
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I should naturaly have higher armor no matter how you gear…
Good show, great entertainment.
Or, wait, you weren’t serious, were you?
Sword Dagger, 0/30/20/20/0 – and if you don’t want to use stealth at all, put the 20 somewhere else – lots of mobility and evasion, enough power and damage to drive a powerful Shortbow clusterbomb as secondary or to play with D/D and possibly S/P or even P/P, should you feel like it.
For conditions without stealth you’re probably stuck with a D/D bleed build.
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… It was pretty sad but when the last hit of the chain does over 9.4K damage, it’s hard to ignore the potential.
They all hit for the same amount, approximately. The numbers you see are the totals for all hits … So you hit for 9.4k total, or about 1.2k per hit.
It’s no lie that CS is one of the best trait line for the thief, not so much the stats but the traits themselves.
I don’t care where he ranks, he said the stats were too strong and should be halved, which is, strange, as the same stats, with the same effect, are available to everyone.
(deleted) eh not worth it.
You can delete the post using the trashcan icon.
Critical Strikes is FAR too good. Either the traits need nerfs or the base stat gain needs to be halved.
I stopped reading right there. What can better prove the idiocy behind the anti-thief QQ then this suggestion of yours
All classes increase their Critical Damage with 1% per trait point, or their Precision with 10 points per trait point. Mesmer, Elementalist, Ranger and Thief have Precision on one trait line combined, making Dueling, Air Magic, Skirmishing and Critical Strikes equal in stat gain.
Now convince me that the remainder of your ramblings is worth my time.
You should probably just read it.
Not convincing enough. Your lack of effort is so poor that it is insulting.
Critical Strikes is FAR too good. Either the traits need nerfs or the base stat gain needs to be halved.
I stopped reading right there. What can better prove the idiocy behind the anti-thief QQ then this suggestion of yours
All classes increase their Critical Damage with 1% per trait point, or their Precision with 10 points per trait point. Mesmer, Elementalist, Ranger and Thief have Precision on one trait line combined, making Dueling, Air Magic, Skirmishing and Critical Strikes equal in stat gain.
Now convince me that the remainder of your ramblings is worth my time.
Put it on auto activate and gain permanent Fury, Swiftness and 10 stacks of Might for 10 seconds every 15 seconds and 5 stacks the remaining time.
The short and easy answer is Soldier armour, Berserker trinkets and 30 trait points in Critical Strikes (the +30% crit damage is a bargain compared to other sources).
The long answer will undoubtedly follow in the discussion.
I said that it looked like that for him balance = punishment. I see no way someone can be offended by that statement.
Which is exactly the negative implied about the other person.
Aggression is when someone comes into the topic and start saying “another average topic in the thief forum, l2p baddie”. Aggression is when someone makes assumptions about you and your skill level in a game forum. …
Agression is, also, stating a negative, implied or direct, about someone.
I don’t feel I had this behavior before someone else had it toward me.
Well, you started it. And even if you feel you didn’t, it’s not an excuse to do it yourself.
Yes, you can change the color. In your hero (H) screen there is a button just above the image of your character that toggles ‘dye mode’ where you can change the colours.
In PvP your character has different equipment, items (and armor) from PvE can not be used in PvP. In Pvp you unlock armour with rewards of playing and winning matches.
The “you can dodge it” argument is indeed retarted. If warrior killshot would have instant cast time, it could still be dodged, but how balanced would it be?
For example, on page 2, “Looks like that, for you, “balance” is some sort of punishment” which was before evilapprentice posted in this thread.
That’s not agressive. He just pointed out that he doesn’t agree with someone’s vision of balance.
No, he doesn’t, if you just point out you don’t agree you just do that, basically by giving a neutral variant of “I don’t agree with what you say”, what he does is actually a form of hidden aggression where he says, “because you say X you must be Y” where Y is a negative, or implies a negative about a person
Seriously, are we in the forums of Hello Kitty Online Adventures? Because sometimes it looks like that here.
Well, maybe you should go elsewhere then. Aggression is aggression, whether it’s subtle or not. There is no need for it, after all nobody was threatening him, it doesn’t serve the primary goal of a discussion forum (discussion of and the exchange of ideas), but only invites more aggression and distracts from the actual discussion. This thread was slowly decaying, as many before it.
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For example, on page 2, “Looks like that, for you, “balance” is some sort of punishment” which was before evilapprentice posted in this thread.
What does aggressive means to you, exactly?
Anything you do basically. :p
But seriously, just about each of your posts contains a form of (verbal) aggression, this was just the first, and posted long before evilapprentice posted in this thread.
Btw, you changed the wording from ‘treating bad’ to ‘aggressive’
I did not treated bad anyone in this topic, at least not first.
but it matters little, it’s good you recognize it as aggression.
Why not? Annoy them a bit and they’ll be running around the place trying to reach you while you blink around the place and everyone else unloads their pain on them. Hilarious.
I know P/D is less effective in dungeon (as is P/P) but the the question is for ranged options and D/ or S/ not ranged.
There are three ranged weaponsets, one of which – the Shortbow – is a more required then optional. Either P/D or P/P can be the second set, of which P/D is, imo, the easier and more survivable option, but P/P the more obvious to get started on, gearwise.
The one from the trailers is Duelist I think, but I’d recommend playing the game a bit before rushing to the gem store, there’s some really nice armour for thieves that you might like better.
The set is high level but there are stones to transfer the stats from one item to the looks of another. But these stones cost and you’ll be doing that a lot as you level up your character.
You can preview equipment by right-clicking it then choosing preview.
I did not treated bad anyone in this topic, at least not first.
Check the last 4 pages and check who started to raise the tones here.Uhm, you did, even before evilapprentice posted in this thread.
Where exactly I had an aggressive behavior toward anyone on this topic who treated me nicely? Because I fail to get what post you are referring to.
For example, on page 2, “Looks like that, for you, “balance” is some sort of punishment” which was before evilapprentice posted in this thread.
Sorry to say this but I’ve had p/d daggers in mid lvl fractals before (30-38) and every second of that I felt like I was carrying the guy.
Seen one P/D you’ve seen them all.
If you need ANY aoe, p/d thief won’t help at all while the sbow thief will be your knight in shining armor.
You are saying P/P > P/D because the Shortbow has AoE?
I think everyone here is saying the Shortbow is a must to have equipped, whatever other weaponset you choose to bring.
P/D S/P thief has access to …
What are you talking about? Who mentioned S/P? S/P is hardly ranged, nor is it a required set for P/D
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frans.8092
1 & 2 no thats just you since i know that i kill shatterer and CoJ almost every day for about 8 months already
Just me? Then it’s just me who feels story = canon and gameplay <> canon. Whatever.
3 As stated before their brewery was their biggest achivement, just as for the norn their smithing.
Sure. Keep to your own ideas.
Not sure what the effigy has to do with gunpowder, the crystals are just that, magic crystals, but I can see where you associate gunpowder with the siege weapons. The dwarves had them in Prophecies though and they were in GvG maps. I don’t remember if they visible/used pre-searing.
5 Both the kuz and lux were on the edge of being forgotten/dissolved already when Factions starts, it was shiros chaos that got them temporary power that ends pretty much instanty when shiro gets his kitten kicked by 8 kitten -kitten -ins; also they were both technically loyal to the emperor even then just as every human under a faction (what bandits aint) are to QJ and her idiotic political circles.
Together they controlled the bigger part of Cantha’s main island. I don’t remember if it was stated explicitly or that it was just my interpretation, but I feel my interpretation is supported by the wik article on Canths
“The Empire of the Dragon is the sole human nation on the southern continent and it shares its second name with the continent it was founded on. Despite the Kurzicks and Luxons being vassals of the empire, the two factions are hardly bothered by the empire and its demands. The Empire of the Dragon is currently the oldest known human nation.”
and
“Life has returned to normal for most Canthan residents. Kaineng still struggles under the burdens of bureaucracy, overpopulation, and crime, while the Kurzicks and Luxons remain locked in a never-ending battle over scant resources. Shing Jea Island remains an oasis of pristine valleys and beautiful vistas. Monks come to the island regularly for scholarly pursuits, while the general populace descends in droves for every festival held within the safe confines of Shing Jea Monastery.”
6 Uhhh, every flame temple in ascalon, also the citadel of flames
Yeah, that one is puzzling, it looks like the catacombs under ascalon, and the ones you travel through from the chasm near Lion’s Arch. If the Charr build them, why is it so similar to the others and if the humans build them, how come they managed to build it so far north?
Oddly enough it’s the only place where you find specific artefacts from Rin and Diessa and both of the two possible explanations raise more questions then they answer, (1) if the charr took them from Rin and Diessa and collected them there, the question is why and why only there, and (2) if the charr found them in the CoF, why were they there, and only there?
The temples in Old-Ascalon looked like they were build on existing ones, or ruins. I’d have to go back though, I never really studied them.
the more you go to the north the more you get of actual charr achitecture and not branches that make a tower that was made in like half a week as a temporary outpost while attacking humans, i mean even right now most outposts are a tent and maybe a cannon, while stuff around the BC are actual forts/villages.
The Black Citadel is GW2, as are the cattle farms, and the other buildings. And most of the Charr lands we have access to in GW2 used to be Ascalon once.
You don’t seem to realize that Vits and Toughness amplify health much more than Crits amplify damage… …
Glad you agree that the choice is between Crit and Vit/Toughness. But I didn’t make any statements about which of those is preferable.
when I said crits, I referred to both precision and crit damage, sorry.
I’m doing a lot of things at once right now.
That’s ok. I too was talking about precision and critical damage as one ‘package’, but your post seemed to imply the choice was between Power and Crit.
You don’t seem to realize that Vits and Toughness amplify health much more than Crits amplify damage… …
Glad you agree that the choice is between Crit and Vit/Toughness. But I didn’t make any statements about which of those is preferable.
That aside, however, precision and crit damage are just stupid. For example, I can guarantee you that the people commenting here don’t know that the damage amplification resulting from 2000 additional precision and 60% additional critical damage is actually less than the damage amplification coming from 1000 power. …
The flaw in your argument is in assuming it’s either Power OR Critical Damage and Chance, while the gear choices offer plainly include Power AND Critical. With Power as the major attribute, the choice then becomes one between Critical and Vitality/Toughness, or a mix of them.
You can solo pretty much anything with it. Even champs, in Orr.
There are 3 ranged weaponsets, P/D, P/P and SB. P/P is the weakest, in any format, which leaves P/D and SB.
I did not treated bad anyone in this topic, at least not first.
Check the last 4 pages and check who started to raise the tones here.
Uhm, you did, even before evilapprentice posted in this thread.
Shortbow and Pistol/Dagger
He used his skills wisely just as you did. Congrats, he ran away. you won.
That is a draw just like it is with every other class, and I don’t get my prize money.
Winning depends on the rules of the game and in WvW winning is not defined by defeating player characters and incurring repair bills. You would help your server more by working towards the goals that do help them win in WvW.
I have a Thief. Nobody can catch me, not even another Thief. Stealth lets me literally walk away from every encounter that I don’t want to fight anymore/cannot win.
This is an RPG, where all classes are not created equal, but where each class has it’s own strengths and weaknesses. The thief’s pre-meditated strength is it’s ability to get away from a fight. Or as you put it, use the get-out-of-jail card. Rather fitting for a class named ‘thief’, I’d say.
A nerf is determined by the change it has on the game, not the reasons behind the change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerf_In this instance the change was both a bug fix and a nerf.
Hang on lemme log into my wikipedia account and edit that bit.
(If you catch my drift on Wikipedia’s reliability.)
You just do that, show us how easy it is to to make lasting edits to Wikipedia articles and what this says about it’s reliability.
It’s the other way around for me. I planned on a Norn ranger, but first wanted to make a human descendant of my main GW1 character. Thief seemed appropriate for a human, and was also somewhat related to the rogue I’d come to like in NwN based mods.
So, anyway, I picked Thief for my human, rather the human for my Thief.
If they had just implemented it without the bug in the first place, or fixed it WAY earlier, then you guys wouldn’t be complaining about it being “nerfed”. Fair enough it was useful in PvP/WvW but it wasn’t intended to work like that.
It’s also not intended to put you below the ground, in objects or even plainly strand you on a bump in the ground long before that 1200 range.
Still, when working properly, the 1200 range would be sufficient in combat.
I knew you would have brought into the discussion DODGE, the mighty counter of everything and the justification of every OPness.
…
Funny, the anti-stealth crowd never stops arguing thief has enough defence with dodge alone, yet when someone mentions dodge as counter to thief skills, dodge has suddenly lost it’s usefulness.
…Looks like that, for you, “balance” is some sort of punishment …
Running out of real arguments?
The racial skills are bad, intented to generally be worst then profession skills.
Radiation Field + Cluster Bomb doesn’t look all that bad.
@frans.8092
Vanquishing is canon, gameplay segregation from story isnt,
You’re mixing up things, story is canon, gameplay is not, never has been. You defeat the Lich, you don’t wipe the Fire Islands, nor Kryta. You defeat the Titans once during the Titan quests and they are quests specifically for that reason, or they’d be made part of the scenery, like the WiK enforcers.
By your logic the Battle for Lion’s Arch would never take place because there wouldn’t be anyone left to storm it after vanquishing Kryta. Neither should the Charr be present in Ascalon during and after the events of Eye of the North. But they are.
Vanquishing is not canon.
by that logic Jormag has 10000000000 claws, there are just as many shatterers, zhaitan would have never died, …
Now you are mixing stories of different players, which is absurd and not part of my argument.
Powder kegs being “tech” is equivalent to saying Grawl sticks are morningstars or hammers. The only real tech the dwarves had was in their brew.
Gunpowder, amongst others, was a significant discovery/invention that ended an era. The dwarves had plenty of plenty of ‘tech’ (you can see their machines) especially regarding mining, a field of interest and expertise they share with the Dredge.
… Everyone already used cannons and explosive powder, even charr shammys,
Charr at that time didn’t use gunpowder, and iirc certainly not canons. But you’re welcome to provide exampkitten
th the kuzicks and the luxons were and probably still are, if they exist, under direct jurisdiction of the Empire of the Dragon, each holding their territorial control and internal wars. Difference is only in that the dredge were on kuzick controlled lands.
So? The empire didn’t have enough control to end the feud between the Kurzicks and the Luxon’s. I think it’s stated in game that the emperor didn’t have much control at all.
As for charr it really doesnt matter, they did have citadels, they did have outposts, but they were mostly savage …
Every thing they build, or at least what we see of it, was build primarily with wood. Which Charr places in GW1 do you consider as citadels?
The first stat to raise to increase damage is Power. Increasing critical hits without a high base damage is less effective. Runes will not increase stats significantly, I’d look for armor with power as major attribute.
Frans, about the canthan dredge and “driving the charrs from their strongholds”: charrs had no strongholds. nor buildings. Nomadic savages.
And the dredge weren’t driven out, they’ve been vanquished by the Dragon Empire just like all non-human races, and forcing the Tengu to flee the land.
He said ‘by us’ (and Kurzicks) so he I don’t assume he was referring to the Dragon Empire. When we were there were lots of them and they seemed to re-appear as fast as we got rid of them…
There is at least one Charr stronghold, even when not build from stone, and a large camp that you must take during Eye of the North,
Assault on the Stronghold and the camp in Grothmar Wardowns
There’s also a stronghold in Sacnoth Valley that you can wipe just for good sport.
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Still doesn’t work properly.
The bump warning doesn’t work either, last post is 3 months ago, not seven days. Someone used months rather then days in their datediff?