Guild Wars 2

wouldnt hurt if once in a while there would be casual players perspective on the game.

yeah, knowing this would be great

Soul.9280:

Clerics is very powerful for Elementalists because of all of the heals they can provide even without blast finishers:

Comparisons of different heals with Berserker vs Cleric amulet:
Soothing Mist every 10 seconds (950 versus 1410)
Evasive Arcana dodge roll in water every 10 seconds (1600 versus 2500)
Attunement to Water: Healing Ripple every 10 seconds (1432 versus 1913)
Near perma regen with cantrips and attunement swap to water (167 versus 283, per second)

So, over the course of 10 seconds, the difference in healing from just these abilities is: 5652 versus 8653.

That’s not including water #3 and water #5 and two blast finishers: earth#2 and arcane brilliance. Healing from blast finishers is 1380 versus 1520 (so not a large impact).

Knights might be viable, but Berserkers leaves you with too little toughness, so you end up taking 40% more damage than someone with Clerics or Knights.

yes, this is a big difference. i’ve played mostly celestial so far, but will try cleric.

dunno if i have lag (sort of decent broadband, in Ohio) or what, but they stealth before i see any animation.
i’ll try more though.

awge.3852:

In that sense then you can compare it to any other player from another profession who has a solid build… then it falls in the area of ‘I don’t know what I am doing but #1 for the win!"… that’s not the center point of why people hate on rangers.

still, rangers are much more #1 than any other prof.

let’s see #1 heros:

• condi engies have #1 (grenades+IC), so I gues sthey should not taunt rangers;
• x3 turret engies should really keep quiet against rangers
• condi necros have strong scepter auto, but still they need to do something else too. say they would not outdps ranger with auto alone
• mm necros – should be quietest of all
• thieves – their auto is strong, and for them #3=#1. but they have to close gap. I guess they can taunt rangers with discretion
• warriors – they have a lot of spammy skills, hambow, or bow F1. I would not take war taunts if I was ranger
• guardians – I have only played bunker guard (staff+GS, staff+hammer), that wasn’t so spammy
• mesmers – well I thought these were legit, but then there is PU, so I guess as a prof they should keep quiet too
• rangers – i have only played power ranger (lb+gs) and it wasn’t that spammy unless enemy was newbie. but i played spirit ranger for 15minutes and couldn’t stand it. if i was power ranger, i would complain about spirit ranger.

changing my vote: overall – not too bad for rangers, other profs are not much better.

Soul.9280:

Well the knock against zerker staff is that they die if you look at them in a menacing way, and that’s been my experience. Against certain teams (lacking thieves), and on certain maps (Kyhlo and Temple in particular), zerker ele can do quite well because they can be hard to catch and wreak havoc on a point if left unchecked for even 5 seconds. But especially against teams with good thieves, or maps that don’t provide protected/hidden places for an ele to hide, a zerker elementalist won’t live long enough to help their team.

right, against thieves zerker staff dies.

but why cleric, is 922 healing power worth it? wouldn’t knight be better?

do you use blasts (which is one blast on earth 2) for healing or might?

i can never manage to do this (interrupt d/p thief #5-222). do i need practice, or is it hopeless?

Soul.9280:

Great feedback, keep it coming. If any of you could start posting links to the builds in question that would also be helpful.

Here is my Staff Ele bunker build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWhMM6c24wyBd0AhAB5tmrRBlrLXB-TJxHAB1eBAQqMAAPAgL2fAA

Variants:
Swap Celestial Amulet in for Clerics (for more health and a bit more offense)
Swap in Rune of the Pirate (for better offense in 1v1)
Swap in Rune of Melandru (for better condition defense)
Swap in Rune of Strength (for might stacking)
Switch to Trait X in water for more group utility
Switch to Signet of Restoration for more sustain (but you lose blast finisher, so a little less group healing, and staff is a slow weapon so doesn’t benefit as much from signet as D/D does)

i have enjoyed zerker staff a lot. what is advantage of cleric/celestial? there are not that many blast finishers for healing, are there?

let me try, though i frankly am newbie. somewhat random thoughts.

Shockwave.1230:

I don’t understand what your (ANet) view on balance is.

• balance is per build.
• some builds can be strong 1v1, some in team fight. it is possible to have hard counter 1v1.
• no build should counter everything 1v1, without having counter itself.
• power and condi, bunker and damage, each should be able to kill the other in 1v1.
• given meta, every build should have at least one viable build, fitting at least one role.

I don’t understand at what tier of play you are trying to balance.

tpvp and soloQ should be balanced in high and mid skill level.

I don’t understand what your goals are for each class.

given high customizability of gw2, there is no goal for prof identity. prof identity is in RP such as: “this is in and out, hard to catch, pita damage, but once caught – squishy. stealth is his mark”. this RP is then overall implemented in weapon and util skills, traits.

I don’t understand what your view on build diversity per class is.

in general – the more the better. given meta there should be at least one viable per meta.

I don’t understand what you’re doing or where you’re going with your PvP.

question is rhetorical. if you mean esports, would be nice, but mmo overall doesnt seem to be a good choice for esports but to the extent available, we’ll support it. but there will be no big resources invested in this. there is no particular emphasis to cater to high tier players necessarily.

I do this because you have what could be the best action combat system of any RPG I have every played, and I have fun playing it.

yeah, we know

I don’t see a direction though.

the direction is making good better. we dont expect any fundamental changes.

I don’t see your initiative, I don’t see your passion, I’ve felt it missing for too long.

allie murdock, who got so much hate before getting all the love (after announcing resignation) used to work 17 hours, then would go home, get in bad and watch twitch on her plasma. that’s not no passion.

:D

DaliIndica.9041:

I think its because the ranger has never had its day in the sun. Most of the other classes have had periods when they were amazing to play, so much overpower. Each class has had its day bar the ranger. Even warriors had a time when they were utterly junk and no one used them. Now they are hideously overpowered. Thief used to be the rage, now its a bit rubbish, still great for roaming but the tricks are gone.

wasnt last summer spirit rangers heyday? where in pax tournament entire comps were built around neutralizing spirit ranger?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

while i appreciate you giving various feedback to address potential flaws the new proposed scoring system may have, it would be also much better if you can suggest what could be done to improve the situation.

as I posted before

i would rather put effort in some sort of collective tools to judge the player and impose consequences, from as little as forfeiting reward or kicking from game all the way to some long debuff, ranking effect.

i dont think there is any algorithm solution to generate perfect incentive and exclude all sorts of player digressions.

i would rather put effort in some sort of collective tools to judge the player and impose consequences, from as little as forfeiting reward or kicking from game all the way to some long debuff, ranking effect.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

well, i am sure “everyone” certainly did not expect AFK behavior to be so rampant after the drastic change to the rewards system.

5 – Kills
10 – Teammate Revivals
80 – Objective Assaulter
10 – Skirmisher
10 – Points Captured
50 – Objective Defender
10 – Objective Neutralized
5 / 3s – Objective Denier
5 / 3s – Objective Bunker
100 – Objective Killer

actually, when change happend (from ind to team performance reward) ppl right away pointed out afk issue. trade off between these two drawbacks is fundamental, whatever you invest your points in.

ind based defender is big? there will be zerg defending, 5players against single invader.
ind capture is big? there will be 5players capping.

ppl felt game being team based, reward should be team based. this eliminates moral hazard of sacrificing team objective – victory, for personal gain. as for single afk/passive player – either you address this with premade, or take consequences.

inventing bycicle feels always exciting, but often it has all been tried already.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Current rewards system promotes AFK behavior in hotjoin games and sometimes even in Solo Arena games or even Team Arena games.

your plan is not without downsides.
i remember how everyone approved when rewards were changed from personal to team performance.
watch out for 5 ppl capping single circle if it goes back to individual performance.

Sensotix.4106:

Added:
Episode 19 -“Such Engi Much Fun!” (Engineer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnpSjnCZx3w

+1

well, good luck with it. my choice of condi engi would be bomb/grenade/X, with third option being elGun, toolkit or one of the survival elixirs.

havent watch video but dunno how this build can succeed. what do you do against any ranged class, especially power, but condi too? super squishy, with no ranged dmg, isnt this a sitting duck?
you rocket boot, enemy dodges/kites away. you try tool pull, enemy dodges. then what?
what is the purpose of the build, how do you play it?

Zadarh.1932:

Mesmer has plenty of anti thief. Thieves are EXTREMELY predictable! Easiest way to kill one is to go condi, staff, scepter/sword. Scepter block gives 5 stacks of torment, that’s an almost instant kill for thieves. Seriously, when a this hits that I immediately say over voice chat, someone find the body, few secs later I hear the “help me” heal cry, and it’s stomping time! I had a really hard time against thieves until I went condi and started using my blocks. If I don’t have scepter block I use off hand sword block and chase it with an f3 shatter for a chain daze, then it depends on what I have, condi haymaker? Moa? Stun?

this are good tactics (sword #2 too), but how about attacks from stealth? say d/p thief? or how about pw?

and who’s going to pay for gem store bank express after that?

Lukin.4061:

I am curious – what is this unkillable turret engy build, because every engy I see sporting turrets just gets hambowed. Can you link it?

this is what i ran few days after patck. cant hold a point, but is very good at killing anything, 1v1 or teamfight.

just put your turrets in a LARGE triangle around the point, away from teamfight AOE deathball and not let bouncing/aoe hits (like thief sb or staff ele shower) hit all of them at once. try to put flame first (mind 750 range) in enemy’s way and make sure enemy is exposed to rocket and rifle (1500 range) while bringing flame down. then stay away from anyone and at most help with occasional pistol #2,3. dont use as blast finishers, but just as a plain damage.

if needed, can pick up flame, rifle and help side nodes (keep rocket at center). otherwise hang out at mid.

when really in pitch, drop supply truck.

yesterday i went back to this build for couple of games. enemy zerker guard and thief battled for a while off nifhel mid (hotjoin) and killed 2v2 our two. i stayed put at mid point. then they ran at me. i managed to keep running in circles and drop supply cart. i went down. enemy thief went down. enemy guard tried to rez him and went down. thief died and i rallied. guard died. 1v2 engi won against zerker thief and zerker guard.

when downed, game is far from over. in fact, bulk of your dps is still up. enemy better stomp you fast.

Liewec.2896:

might be time to dust off my old fire glass staff ele,
meteor shower+ blasting staff Lava Font which covers the whole node <3

that does it, but only against newbie turret engies. that and anything that bounces or aoe, for instance thief shortbow is great.

but good turret engi should place turrets in a faraway triangle (that’s essentially the only “skill” needed for this build). then you have to kill them one by one and while doing most likely should go down. also, good engi should make flame turret first in the way, if you decide to wipe all three turrets, by the time you are done flame and then rifle should be back off CD.

i’m talking about rocket/rifle/flame engi.

screenshot attached. all of them were x3 turrets.

it was a looong plantations of turrets one had to walk through. x3 turrets, supply cart turrets. you name it.

Dee Jay.2460:

I doubt we will see any big changes to this game until Wildstar has launched.

NC Soft is probably keeping the lid on things in Guild Wars2 in the hopes that many will try/migrate to Wildstar, a game with similar aspirations but a subscription fee.

Guild Wars probably won’t get rolling again with interesting features until Wildstar is 2+ months into it’s life-cycle.

i would think anet would be keen on dropping some lures right after ws launch. that’s how they handled teso launch, feature patch just few days after it and kept excitement fresh in gw2. 2+mo after launch, is that wise? that’s a lot of time to set the roots and dont want to leave.

good luck to you all ppl.

but frankly i dont have sympathy for anyone in spvp, but those who pvp for pvp’s sake. i dont care about top tpvp teams who cry for cash prizes “to have some incentive to play”, nor i care for pve crowd who asks for shiny goodies “to have incentive to play”. the only guy i care about is the one who plays to practice and know he can outplay the others.

good luck anet catering to dozen different sorts of whiners, couldnt care less.

i just run, hide behind pillars

this is what happens when you think too much without having a thought…

i dont think survival by prof makes sense.

by builds may be, but even then there are much variation

second life is not enough, now it needs heals too…

Solstice.1097:

Celestial hambow is amazing. with strength runes = permanent might stacks the celestial hambow is the perfect combination of tanky + DPS. 2,100 power, 55% crit (most of the time), 200% crit damage, 3,100 armor, 24k health, 600 condition damage, 400 healing power. 2/0/6/0/6 with sigils of purity, energy, doom, and battle, all proc’ing about every 10 seconds.

:balance:
:sigh:

MultaniGamer.7169:

Halp I play d/p teef and I can’t beat mm. Also how do i beat d/d ele? Much thanks.

for mm, keep your shortbow and kill entire zoo by autoattacking. the arrow, will keep bouncing between minions and clean up entire zoo shortly. most likely they will be advancing on you, so you’ll have to keep retreating with strafe and shortbow 3. occasionally you can also use sb #2 or #4. not sure about sb#5 but given situation, can do that too (especially if z axis opportunity).

once you clean up zoo, go all in with usual d/p burst. keep an eye on re-summoning, but those can be interrupted. most likely he will be dead before any new minions appear.

thief shortbow (because of bounces) and engi grenades are some of best counters for mm.

i’d agree with some of what you are saying.

min req for grenades – i would not be very opposed, but not for either. doesn’t melee out-dps even shotgun grenades?

i would not touch thief base init.
however, i would make sure interrupt costs something, either half of skill init cost, or 5 sec cooldown.
i wouldnt touch executioner. for grand trait it’s reasonable.

no way ranger pet range increase. enough with ai.

any plans to address hotjoin manipulations: high performers picking same side, swapping in 4v5 autobalancing, etc…

jebro.6370:

I just wanted to add something here. There is a big difference between an Engi playing a Turret build spamming turrets compared to a good engie that can utilise all the turrets in combination with combo fields.

Such as the thumper turret blast on active and not explode on destruction, with a build I run atm I have 8 blasts, combined with other classes its so dam fun let alone great for many situations.

Engineer is weak vs condi also you can burst him down with enough spike damage.

I feel the reason people get upset is because they arent thinking outside the box. Pick up the build, play it yourself and see where the weaknesses are. Its one of the best ways to find out. Either that or like Grouch said earlier there are ways, #askanengi.

Lets not complain on mass about a class mechanic that’s finally become viable, its new really in spvp as its a lot stronger than before, so your bound to have many issues coming up against it, not many people at least EU side used it before the 15th April feature pack.

Ask a question here or start up another thread entitled: How to take out a turret Engie build. Theres a power and Condi variation at the least running various turrets. Thumper Turret being the main turret of choice in most builds.

Thanks

Jebro

i think will be useful if ppl actually post build they are talking about.

replacing single turret is as important as switching weapon for profession. you play it very differently.

for instance when i say x3 turret i mean rocket/rifle/flame, mostly playing mid, helping on sides. i posted link above.

Drafigo.4690:

I have to agree its becoming a huge problem in hot join. I am starting to have way less fun because its always unbalanced (4v5 90% of the time). People trying to even it out is even worse. This issue stated when more servers where added. Now there are to many servers and many with people playing 1v1. Hotjoin should be 5v5 with some people watching and waiting to get in the action. Adding more servers was a huge error and one made for those who want to pick a server no one plays in so they can 1v1 or something else. If you want to play something else you should create your own server for that instead of adding more servers. Anet needs to remove some servers. I would rather sit a match out then have all the imbalance created when more servers where added.

may be the reason.

i don’t know if it’s me noticing now, or it actually got worse, but it’s relatively recent thing.

i knew ppl would track high performers (ranks) on previous fight to queue with them for next. but this autobalance abuse is a recent thing.

johnsonade.9547:

I see gesho, perma burning has always been strong but the difference between this and other perma burning builds is that it doesn’t seem effective against more than one target. Burning here only comes from a) flame turret which can be easily destroyed, b)balthazar runes which proc on a heal every 20 seconds, and c) the flame turret inside the supply crate elite. I can take away 2 sources of burning from that build unless they go with pistol/pistol.

“only” from flame turret? that “only” is perma burn, you cant beat perma burn, any other burn would be a waste.

and i wish you try to destroy that flame turret. wont live to see it down.

and yes, this is a single target damage. long range, reliable sustained damage-condi mix. sort of ranger on steroids. cant armor against, cant cleans, and best of all, may hardly ever see the enemy.

There’s no Incendiary Powder, no Incendiary Ammo, no stability, no effective stealth, no turret projectile reflection, no speed, no vigor, no stun breaks, .

none of these would hart, but if you need any of these, you are playing this wrong. the main idea of x3 turret is to hide behind anything you can, and faraway on t he safe side of teamfight.

and a condition cleanse of 2 every 15 seconds maybe unless you run purity/generosity sigils like the guy I responded to was talking about. .

purity sigil is on.
just stay out and behind the pillars.

I honestly don’t find this build to be strong enough on paper to warrant hate. This is a decent support build, that’s for sure, but it’s like… you are point fodder if you get focused while trying to play this build. I’ll try it out for a few matches to see what the fuss is about though. If anyone has any videos of it being played effectively, please feel free to link them. I’ll have to change my tune if this ends up being OP.

i played it for 3 days or so after the patch. its not unkillable, but its a hidden miracle of mid fight.

few tips from experience: 90% of the “skill” is turret positioning. certainly not in a pile. dont allow aoe or thief’s shortbow bounce wipe turrets simultaneously. i always position them in faraway triangle. rocket and rifle will have 1500 range. flame will have 750’range and will be somewhat exposed to deathball of middle, but again, many builds would kill for safety of 750 distance.

i wouldnt bunker home with this, i always run to mid first (with crowd) and position my turrets. with this even midfights we’ll usually win, ’ cause as i said its very reliable high dps. you can even target their guardian and it will go down in 10-15 sec with you alone. also ppl sort of start to panic, i’m not joking. those turrets are far away, not very visible, but here you see your guard going down for no apparent reason. ( for instance i often put flame in foefire mid bushes).

once mid is cleaned, i may run with turret or two (low cd, flame and may be rifle) to help whichever side node needs help. rocket always stays at mid.

i usually don’t assault far and very seldom i bunker home. this is not a good build for capping. you’ll kill invader, may be even two of them, but you’ll most likely lose a node to even one invader.

once i had an experience, i was going up spirits mid when i run into 3 enemy, they were coming down just out of capping mid (this was hotjoin and you can tell i’m not pro at tracking enemy count or at pvp at all). i haphazard dropped my two turrets and threw supply cart. after all my shield time i went down, but one of the enemies went down too. while them stomping (i used my wire) second guy went down. then our thief joined the game and third went down (i was moving my target). eventually i rallied and they wiped. thief helped, but bulk of that fight went through the turrets and it was one of the most imba encounters i’ve ever seen.

johnsonade.9547:

I have beaten all Turret Engineers in every 1v1 encounter I’ve had since the April 15th patch in PvP. Sorry, but I’ve never actually fought one before then because they were bugged pretty badly until recently. As a Power Engineer, TE’s lose to 2 things: Jump Shot and bombs with Forceful Explosives trait. On condition engineer, they still lose to bombs, acid bomb, Off-hand shield and burning. I’m trying to not get emotional about this because I’m serious and I don’t want you or anyone to believe Turret Engineers are unbeatable given equal skill with an opponent. To me they simply aren’t but I’ve been maining this class since a few months after launch. I can see tells most people can’t and I can work with opponent turrets’ rates of fire. I know which turrets to avoid at a glance and which ones to destroy. I.E. avoid getting closer than 300 to a thumper turret and you can do what you want. Absorb rocket damage but block/dodge the overcharged (arcing) rocket. Rifle turret doesn’t do anything but low sustained damage, get out of flame turret’s blind field and carry on. Believe it or not, net turret can mean life or death if you’re fighting a 1v2 versus a TE.

you are talking about different thing. half of te’s dmg come from flame turret. no net turret, but perma burning.

build

btw, he is better at mid, with occasionally helping at home with rifle and flame turrets. rocket always stays at mid.

rereading thread i see a lot of misinformed posts.

x3 turret engi is NOT a decap engi. triple turret engi is one who has all three turret traites, metal plating, autotool, rifled turret selected (btw i would take rifled turrets over fortified turrets, you can alway los from range projectile, while he cant).

it is not meant to decap far. in fact its better with pistol shield. often he will lose point, but kill enemy. it playes well on mid where it has reliable long range sustain on par and probably better then power ranger. this sustain cant be los’d because of turret positioning. and above all engi himself keeps out of harm, while turrets do the job.

another thing, because of power and perma-burning mix, it will melt whatever you come with, armor or cleansing.

Medazolam.3058:

the turrets cant move, have limited range, dont attack all that often, have very low HP and have long cool downs. engie drops turret, you got a few option, some are to back off and kill it, drop stability and melee it, or get our of range on the other side of the node. Honestly the turrets HP is so low, they don’t last long at all. all this is just my take on the issue

sry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. traited turret has 1500 range. with metal plating they have const protection and then there is self repair.

with good positioning you won’t even be able to hit single turret without being exposed to all three of them. in which case you have 10sec lifetime, which is barely enough to bring down single turret. most likely it will be flame turret (which imo should always be a frontman), which engi can drop again in 20 sec, just in time for you running back from respawn to be steamrolled all over again.

Krittz.6013:

People tell “the stacking” to do tPvp in HotJoins when they want to play on the same team as their friends. The problem is when you jump into tPvp, all you see is gimmicky/meta builds that aren’t fun to play against.

I, personally, fought countless stacking teams because I feel it will make me a better player in time. Adjusting traits vs situations, etc… Knowing what you can and cannot handle. If you approach a point and see what’s on it. Can you hold the point long enough to stall them? Can you burst one down? What else do they have on their team that could potentially jump into the fight and make it too much for you to handle?

This is what I did with my Ele and now my build is pretty rock solid (d/d) which I never thought could be viable even against burst warriors and burst guards (even take down most necros).

Remember, you can also switch servers if you are not having fun.

frankly, i have no idea what you are talking about.

only thing i can imagine to have to say about this situation is that it is terrible.

Medazolam.3058:

People complaining about engie turrets? my god, now ive seen everything. I see no need to rehash the points already made in this thread, but it should take people all of about 5 min to realize how to avoid/destroy the turrets.

can you please explain?

Josh Davis.6015:

Here’s my 2c:

I’d assume the main time you’d face off against a turret decap engineer is if they push into your home point and you’re stuck defending against it.

not necessarily. turrets can be triangle placed around mid, at 1500 they (rocket and rifle) are safe from aoe and random damage. they will take any single target down in 10 sec, while engi can busy himself with pistol shield survival, hiding behind pillars, rez/stomping, etc.

for instance on khylo i put them on the edge of broken wall, two opposite corners (rocket and rifle) and flame turret (low 20 sec cd) on mid platform, but away from circle, near the wall. at most flame turret will be destroyed. and meanwhile they will take out more then one life.

and even in unlikely case that i lost, i’m usually out of heat and can run to one of side nodes for free cap or imba fight.

its very low risk very high dps.

vincecontix.1264:

hotjoin means nothing so it doesn?t matter.

what does soloQ or tQueue “mean”? all of this is a game.

and hotjoin does matter, among others that is supposed to be the place to test and practice builds.

it’s least fun.

i have to first “fill up” the game. get on losing team so that the stronger team "pro"’s can join the game. else, it will be stuck 2weak_VS_3strong forever. then when it ends 4v5, i have to auto balance every 30 sec or so, because why 5 weak builds against 4 strong, when you can be 5 strong against 4 weak, from 5 side that i have just reassembled biggest “pro” swaps to the opposite team. i end up not playing at all just to maintain some resemblance of even game.

if i dont do it, good luck on 4v5 against 3 war+2guards.

and all this to practice some s/d ele (nonbunker), which i don’t want to take soloQ.

it’s not that this is happening once in a while or every other game. it’s constant.

JinDaVikk.7291:

I love people who complain about silly issues.

For starters lets get this out in the open,

1 : Turret push back trait makes turrets HURT when they explode. Quite a bit. For starters don’t stand next to 3 of them when you kill them.

2: Next off turret engi has with healing turret only 2 condi’s cleansed every 15 seconds. That’s not good. Any HALF DECENT condi engi or necro can beat them. If you are an engi or necro and are complaining then get out of denial cause you need to l2p. Really bad.

3: get over the stand on point non-sense. Any hambow can use longbow f1 ( don’t give me the crap about reflecting it learn to aim. the radius is ridiculous) and arc arrow to do major damage. ( maybe AI turrets should be affected by conditions like spirits and spirit weapons etc….)

4: THEY HAVE NO STUN BREAKER.

5: limited to no damage if turrets are dead. Like really really bad.

6: Points tick once every 2 seconds. If they full cap and live for say 20 seconds they scored 10 points. Cool they were effective except they are on spawn for 15 seconds + 15 seconds to come back to point. You got 5 for killing them and 5-10+ by full capping ( how long can you hold the point?)

7: THEY HAVE 0 STAB REMOVAL the only reason the old decap was viable was massive boon strip. This build is crap because a bunch of noob engis thought due to old success this may still work. It doesn’t. Use stab for gods sake. Or learn to dodge/evade/blind ( seeing as he has 0 condi removal blind powder/smoke bomb work well)

8: Get a team mate to help you. With 2 people ( or if you actually bothered to run condi engi or necro) it isn’t hard. Don’t expect fairness in this game I can easily roll a 1v1 build and with some skill roll your back point repeatedly. Hell I can argue shadow trap is far worse offender. Quit complaining.

its not so easy, especially for condo engi. when turrets are spread in large triangle it will take you quite some tome before you grenade them out (you’ll have to go one at a time). i estimate it will be around 10 sec per traited turret to grenade them out.

x3 turrets and engi dish out around 2k dps. the math is, you die before you clean up turrets.

also, when i play x3 turrets, i put rocket most inaccessible, so they have to attack rifle and flame first, especially flame. it has i believe 20 sec cd.

condi necro is possibly a counter, may be d/p thief, but i’m not sure about the rest.

rank removal makes sense if dev wanted to hide under the rag poor matchmaking.

score removal on the top of rank would make sense if they wanted actually better matchmaking.

so…

google.3709:

1. Thief can steal the stab from rampage as one
2. Let the thief stun you and then use counter attack….. the knockback will be time at the end of the thief’s evade which he can’t dodge.

how much of pw will i have to take with this?

clint.5681:

All you have to do is be facing the opposite direction of the thief when he hits and counter attack will block more than one attack and wont do the knockback. its a free shield stance if you use it right.

wait, so if I am not facing, Counterattack doesn’t trigger and I keep in block? Blocking through most of that PW?

Well, i do have some other counters (just starting with ranger), best being Lightning reflexes, but was curios about Counterattack

Once I Lightning reflex he (thief) is sort of stuck with me, isn’t he? Nearly out of init. I should be able to interrupt healing stealth and only thing he has left is probably shadow refuge. which would allow him to reset and pull another one sequence. But then I have Protect Me.

Overall I sort of see counter play, but we’ll see. I don’t like that I have to use my utility cooldowns for someone’s regular weapon skills.

as i could figure, its useless? it was sort of fast (i tried it couple of times :dying : ) but when my knockback hits thief is already in evade?