Guild Wars 2

Cufufalating.8479:

Could have a middle ground where they only get 1 shot at using their Stealth Attack, and if they miss/get blocked they dont get revealed but their AA goes back to normal.

I have to say I find this issue most annoying of P/D thieves.. can see their shots spamming through the air air as I dodge, it even gives away their exact location but there is nothing at all I can do about it meaning proactive play becomes impossible. The only solution is to wait till they actially hit you then dodge, so you only take the first 1-3 hits intead of all 5. Thats fine and all, but it would be nice to be able to actively defend myself instead of having to do it reactively.

Tip: if you are a mesmer, let your clones eat the Stealth Attack.

Still, that’s one of the main reasons why P/D is even more deadly than D/x sometimes.

Cynz.9437:

THERE IS COUNTER TO STEALTH. Stealth doesn’t give you protection nor invulnerability, you still take full dmg in stealth, you still sit in CCs, YOU DO NOT DO DMG WHILE IN STEALTH (unlike mesmers), there are 1000000 ways of preventing thief going into stealth, there are 10000 ways from preventing thief dmg out of stealth.

QQ like this is reason why you guys keep dying to thieves. Bad players QQ -> class keeps getting nerfed every patch -> most thieves either quit or reroll -> only very few dedicated still play class and get good at it -> those few dedicated are still capable of kiling noobs -> bad players QQ -> class gets nerfed again…

No matter how much Anet will nerf the class, really good players will still kill bad players and place their amazing quaggan finisher simply because instead of L2P against already overnerfed underrepresented class ppl rather spend their time crying on forums.

This guy speaks the truth (no trolling). There ARE counters to stealth (included running away or inside the water – there is no way a thief will follow you in water combat unless you are already at really low health).

Not many people seem to have grasped the meaning of my previous posts though. I am fine with thieves at the moment, heck, I even play a thief myself when roaming in WvW. But still, when I am not using it, 9 out of 10 times I get killed because a random thief decides to focus me. I am ok with it – I would do the same and I know the risks of playing a thief. However, I must admit that it is kind of frustrating sometimes.

Again, I am not saying “Nerf thieves” “stealth has no counters” “thieves are cheap”.

Aberrant.6749:

hihey.1075:

Thing is, in WvW, there is almost NO way to survive if two, good, zerker thieves (be them D/D or D/P) decide to gank you. No matter how hard you try, unless you are a thief yourself and you see it coming, or unless you are a PU mesmer or a super-tanky warrior/guardian, you will die. I roam with all the classes you see below, usually alone. And no matter how hard I try, if I’m fighting and 2 thieves join the fight, I die. Simple as that.
But I won’t complain. Not just because I play a thief myself, but mostly because I have accepted the fact that thieves are good at this. I mean, warriors are good at swinging their hammers, Eles are good at support, Necros are good at putting condi pressure… every class shines in a specific role, both in WvW and in sPvP. Thieves excel at killing weakened foes.
People must start to accept this fact.

If you’re jumped by two equally skilled players regardless of the classes involved you should expect to wind up dead. If that wasn’t the case then whatever class you’re on that’s able to take that on is OP and in need of a nerf… or is a very… VERY hard counter (ex dia skin ele vs 2 dire).

You are totally right about this, but this is not my point. The rate at which thieves kill “unaware” people is really high. If you are already fighting and a couple of thieves join you will be dead in a few seconds. Other classes can achieve similar bursts of course, but such specs are way less frequent than thieves.
Of course if you are outnumbered you should not won, but I am talking about any fight here. I usually rain with my Ele with my guild, and while I can survive some ganks, if two or more thieves get me together I really don’t have the time to react – which is Fine by me, but other people get too frustrated about this and want to survive and kill everyone every time…

Thighum.7295:

Burnfall.9573:

hihey.1075:

Ok, this is it.
I was solo roaming in WvW with my ele. I don’t usually have many problems killing stuff: coyotes, skelks, yaks, and sentries go down really fast and don’t cause much problems.

However, everytime I find a thief, no matter what, I just die. And the problem is, I can’t even see him!
I just go around, then bam! Dead! I got hit by 18k spikes out of nowhere. And when I see the thief in front of me and I manage to avoid his attack, he will just go in stealth in another gimmicky way and backstab me from behind! I can’t even use my heal, because his burst is on a 0s CD!

For reference, this is my build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJAodnEElXbdN6GQYrAhcIDDHIgxBQQkittenHiBA-jkxAYrAm8KiGbLoIasKJMVJRUtToIa1yAYPCA-w

I seriously hope Anet will fix stealth because at the moment it’s just too much. I get killed sometimes by zerker rangers, but at least I can see them and if I get killed it’s because they are good (their bear hits really hard and must require a lot of micromanagement to be effective!). But when it comes to thieves, it’s just 0 risk, 101% reward, go stealth kill people #yolomode

Very well said

You are the million player to confirm and experience this outrageousness class design.

So the next question is.

How many more years will it take for our concerns to be heard and addressed ?

4+ years ??

I say 10+ years

whose with me?

ROFL did you look at his build? Once you do you will realize this entire post was a joke.

Do you really need to go all the way to look at the build to prove that this is a troll thread? xD

Thing is, in WvW, there is almost NO way to survive if two, good, zerker thieves (be them D/D or D/P) decide to gank you. No matter how hard you try, unless you are a thief yourself and you see it coming, or unless you are a PU mesmer or a super-tanky warrior/guardian, you will die. I roam with all the classes you see below, usually alone. And no matter how hard I try, if I’m fighting and 2 thieves join the fight, I die. Simple as that.
But I won’t complain. Not just because I play a thief myself, but mostly because I have accepted the fact that thieves are good at this. I mean, warriors are good at swinging their hammers, Eles are good at support, Necros are good at putting condi pressure… every class shines in a specific role, both in WvW and in sPvP. Thieves excel at killing weakened foes.
People must start to accept this fact.

This thread should embody the hundreds of other threads made by people who request nerf for thieves.

This kind of people usually:
_know nothing about the Thief class
_know nothing about PvP
_(usually) claim to be really good players
_(usually) know nothing about their own class as well
_don’t even try to get better at the game and ask for nerfs instead
_will not change their mind ever
_say that every thief is a noob and that other classes “require skill” to be played

It’s kinda funny that not every user here actually got this

Oh! The things I would do if I had a 4th utility slot on my thief!

gartz.7013:

Wait…Rangers can kill things?

Yes! They are really good at it!

Was a pleasure fighting against you.
Nice video

Are you using Exotic Gear?
Secondly, try to land your shatters when your target is disabled. Using Sword/Pistol is great in this scenario, because of the Immobilize on Sword #3 and the Stun on Pistol #5, which can be both used to set up reliable shatters.
Playing Shatter Mesmer is really hard, because if you miss your burst you will lose a lot of time waiting. So, in order not to miss your burst, you must set it up. And since setting it up is almost as important as bursting, you must not miss your set up too!

Most people will not dodge twice in a row. So my best suggestion would be: let your opponent dodge, then use your set up skill→shatter. Bad players have the habit of dodging “just because”, so it’s really easy to take advantage of this if you don’t use your skills randomly.

I don’t get your post actually.
You said your main focus is PvE, yet you are asking for things which really don’t fit into the “pve meta”, such as Conditions and Tankiness.
I can give you some builds, but I’d need some more info: are you going to play PvE only? Or do you plan to use these builds into WvW (or PvP)?
Things that work in PvE are COMPLETELY different from things that work in any competitive envirorment (WvW included), so be a little more specific when asking for advice.

Warhawk.7095:

So, to re-phrase my original question… who thought this was viable? at all?

I hope one Anet dev came here and said “I did”.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQNAoYVlUmaOncy4E/5Ex2DfKUi6VosaPoZLhJA-jUyAYLBRiCAZBiKAm8KiGbxtIasqFMVJRUt3oIa1SBExyI-w
I promise you it will be fun.
Basilisk Venom->Activate all Signets->CnD precast->Steal->Backstab.
If it doesn’t kill them, they will most likely be below 50% HP->Spam 2 like no tomorrow.
If it doesn’t work, use your heal, take out your Shortbow and run away with #5.

Preferred targets: Rangers (especially those with no +40% condition Duration food), Elementalists (especially those with low WvW rank), other thieves, Mesmers (especially those without +40% condition duration food). Don’t bother with Warriors and be careful with Guardians.

Fights against PU mesmers with 4 invis (The Prestige, Decoy, Mass invis, Veil) can last really long. Especially if they are using a Staff instead than Sword+Pistol.
Anyway, a few tips:
when they go in stealth, they will probably have Aegis when they reappear: just attack them with your backstab, doesn’t matter if on the back or on the front. They will dodge most likely after the attack, so don’t keep attacking, just use it once. Keep stealthing as they waste all their utilities and go full offensive when they have used Veil+Decoy really close to each other.
It’s the only spec against which I won’t hold my back about stealth, and will spend most of the fight stealthed. I’ll give them some of their own medicine and usually drop a ballista and a /laugh on their corpse.

Ok, this is it.
I was solo roaming in WvW with my ele. I don’t usually have many problems killing stuff: coyotes, skelks, yaks, and sentries go down really fast and don’t cause much problems.

However, everytime I find a thief, no matter what, I just die. And the problem is, I can’t even see him!
I just go around, then bam! Dead! I got hit by 18k spikes out of nowhere. And when I see the thief in front of me and I manage to avoid his attack, he will just go in stealth in another gimmicky way and backstab me from behind! I can’t even use my heal, because his burst is on a 0s CD!

For reference, this is my build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJAodnEElXbdN6GQYrAhcIDDHIgxBQQkittenHiBA-jkxAYrAm8KiGbLoIasKJMVJRUtToIa1yAYPCA-w

I seriously hope Anet will fix stealth because at the moment it’s just too much. I get killed sometimes by zerker rangers, but at least I can see them and if I get killed it’s because they are good (their bear hits really hard and must require a lot of micromanagement to be effective!). But when it comes to thieves, it’s just 0 risk, 101% reward, go stealth kill people #yolomode

Good job, was a really nice watch.

This is probably a thief who got pushed out of shadow refuge.

I pushed a lot of people off ledges with iWave… Better add it to the list as I didn’t see it mentioned.

I think they should decrease the rate of fire.

Azure Prower.8701:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

I’m getting really sick of thieves, their mechanics are so overpowered – not in the sense that they can kill easily, but nobody should be able to go that invisible, evade that many times and regen their health like it’s nobodies business.

Problem: Some thing is wrong with mesmers!

Logical solution: nerf thieves!

Seems legit.
That’s how the random WvWer reasons anyway.

40€ I think. Bought the Aetherblade Medium Armor for my Asura Ranger (10€), the Viper Medium Armor for my Human Engineer (10€), 2 bank tabs, a Character Slot on sale, a lot of Transmutation Crystals (some through gold, other through money).
And I’m thinking of buying the Flamekissed armor for my Ele, got a bit bored of the Winged set…

PvErs will always find a way around for legendaries.
WvWers, on the other hand…

I am red and we won our MU in the EotM by 1500 points yesterday.

The only time I was killed yesterday was because of one of those turrets. Their rate of fire and damage is insane.

Who is Scarlet?

Uh? Stealth change in the patch notes?

All I saw was a big zerg moving around for each color. We won our MU because our zerg was composed mainly of English speaking players and the Commander put up a ts server for the pugs. We even took both keeps by pvdooring the inner gates…
So far, it’s 99% zerg, 1% roaming. Hope it will change

The number of people I pulled off bridges in 30 minutes is insane.
Gotta love Temporal Curtain.

Darnacus.5961:

The rank chest I buy are ok, it’s the bonus one that I get from gaining a rank that seem to have less items. Not that this is gamebreaking or anything.

Yep, I agree, last time I opened my rank up chest there were 2-3 items, I was used to get 4-5 usually (was just disappointed, but I didn’t bother too much back then…)

There usually is a 30m queue from 8.30 to 9.30 PM GMT +1.
Aside from this time frame, queues are acceptable.
I don’t think the guilds here will like going into Gold League, so I suppose we do not want to improve our rating even further.

Thieves are the best at bunkering!
Perma evade, perma blind, perma stealth, perma teleport, good luck killing one!
Oh, wait.

urieldhynne.2743:

We are talking about thief right now.

And I say people here need to focus more on the main topic.
Because, as I see it, this thread (and God knows why I still read it) has turned into a “nerf thieves”, with hundreds of statements of people that should just lower their ego and accept the fact that they CANNOT kill a DECENT thief who does not want to die IN WvW.

First it started with “I am pro pvp player and I’m kittened that a thief won a 1v3 (because of stealth)”.
Then it became “Thief damage potential is too high, 15k burst every 3s wtf!”
And finally it turned into “Thieves resets fights because of stealth”.

Make up your minds, lads. If thieves get deleted you would still find something else to complain at. Most likely warriors, because they can win a 1v3, they can burst 15k easily if facing terrible players (of which these forums are full), and can easily disengage at will.

Also, any PU mesmer with traited 1200 blink can disengage really easily. Just chain 1 stealth with a blink in another direction and you’ll be ooc in no time.

urieldhynne.2743:

hihey.1075:

This. I won a 1v4 with my Shatter Mesmer, once.
Nerf mesmers?

I win a lot of outnumbered fight with a lot of my characters. But because or i played better or they was so bad. But they can counter me. They can see me and they can actually do thing directly to me, not trying to guessing where i am.

The problem with stealth in this game is like “I CAN BACK IN TIME”

If something go wrong, i “hit the button” back in time, refill everything, a new start to try again over and over without leaving actually the fight! and i can do that EVERY TIME.

Is a PERMA UNDO ABILITY. That is the problem.

And stealth in this game is actually invisibility. There is no stealth skill here. There is invisibility.

I don’t see any problem actually. A warrior with GS has the same ability of resetting the fights at ease. A PU mesmer can do it too easily (if he has traveler runes and a bit of wit).

What I see here are people complaining that “we can’t kill a thief”. Why do you even have to kill him in the first place? Don’t you know that a thief will need to blow everyone of his utilities to chase people? Even if thieves have great mobility, they need to use everything to catch up with a fleeing opponent, and they will rarely do so if the opponent is at full health.

Cynz.9437:

Valentin.2073:

Cynz.9437:

so basically you chose a build that is not optimal for wvw and asks for nerfs for class that is only good at roaming….

not only that, you admit that you wiped the floor with that thief because they didn’t use stealth… doesn’t it prove how kittenty the class is w/o stealth

i don’t like it when i see a thief surviving a 1v3 fight. it doesnt feel right. you play tpvp too, right? do you see that happen there? no. i only get to see that in wvw because most thieves here abuse stealth.

you have many options to still be viable. d/d setup is not that bad but those d/p thieves just prefer to take the easy way.

I saw plenty of classes capable of doing that (hello PU mesmers, hello warriors, GUADIANS???), it is not something you see only thieves doing….i have a guildie, he plays necro, he 5v1 at some point and won the fight… and he plays hybrid necro build w/o dhuumfire….should we ask for major necro nerf now? The truth is WvW is unfair, you will never see it as balanced as pvp is because of 2 reasons:
- armor/level disparity
- no MMR that protects noob/bad players from skilled players (althrough soloq still fails at it sometimes)

On top of it, WvW spoils players, it teaches them that spamming 1 in big group is efficient. Most of them don’t even bother actually getting better at their class or learning anything, they just bring more numbers. If that thief managed to pull 3v1 then hat off for him, because honestly given thief survivability it is not exactly the easiest task.

As far as tpvp goes, yes i have seen ppl winning 3v1 fights althrough it is rare simply because how small map is and how easy it to come help your teammate. Also, above mentioned WvW “features” don’t really exist in pvp (lol HJ doesn’t count).

Honestly, define abuse stealth? I am not trying to defend perma stealth as i myself find it rather pointless (dumping all ini into stealth is not killing anyone), but the class IS built around stealth, how do you expect them to live other way? Should we blame guards for “abusing” boons? Should we blame eles for “abusing” heals?

What other options? Evade? Well, seems like players don’t like that either because S/D got nerfed majorly and PW is getting nerf as well. You tell players basically that because you find d/p unskillfull everyone should be forced to play d/d but then again you ask for stealth nerfs as far i understand? which is funny considering how d/d relies on stealth more than d/p.

Last note, you won’t see thieves using stealth as much in pvp due to conquest and team actually helping each other. In wvw you don’t have such option, you have to play for yourself, there is also no conquest. That is why 99% of the thieves you will meet in WvW run SA for more survival (which most traits ARE based on stealth), where in pvp thieves use trickery for team utility since they can rely on teammates to keep them up as well.

This. I won a 1v4 with my Shatter Mesmer, once.
Nerf mesmers?

DT ignoring LOS is the only good thing of that spell in a PvP environment.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

s

also, please do give the poor mesmer some passive healing when the mesmer has no illusions at all.

I would be ok with this if the healing they get for 0 illusions is removed from Warriors’ Healing Signet and given to Signet of the Ether.
100 base HPS for no illusions, while Healing Signet gets its passive reduced to 300 HPS. Sounds reasonable.

Try http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsYVlYmaPncS4E/5Ex2jeKUeqVgmdP4q8rKA-TsAg0CqIKSVkrITRyisFNsYZxsAA
It’s the other meta build.

If you get killed in less than a second and, after having a look at your Combat Log, you see that “Thief hit you for 10k using Backstab”, please don’t come here asking nerf for thieves.

I think that Lyssa runes are fine for the sole reason that they are accessible to anyone.
I agree that SOME runesets are way better than others (namely, Lyssa, Soldier, Ogre, Scholar, Forge, Nightmare), but this does not mean that they must be nerfed.
For istance, I think that they should buff other runesets to match lyssa, as some provide bonuses which are laughable at best (Poison Nova on down? trolololol)

stale.9785:

Paulo – I had a thief, and yeah, they suck diseased moose wang in PvE. You know how many deaths I had while roaming in WvW? Less than 1.

Either one of these is true:
Number of good players you met while roaming: 0.
Number of good players you killed while roaming: 0.

You were right on one thing, though:
Hambow is bad at roaming because they have no means to escape.

This is sad to hear. I have mostly played mesmer in sPvP and hearing that two of the most famous players of this class will reroll is disappointing.
The only thing I can say is that they play for win. Or, more precisely, they play for winning with their team.
I have loads of fun when I play mesmer in PvP, way more than any other class I can play (see below for all the classes I play), so I will keep doing it even if a D/P thief would be a better overall choice.

Some people really don’t want to accept the fact that they lost.

No. Good players already know how to counter stealth. If you can’t, then either you’re not equipped for it, or you’re not a good player.
Cheers.

RedCobra.7693:

im guessing they did that intentionally, just think about it for a second, its already and amazing condi removal for a group, you throw in the ability to do this with IP and it becomes overpowered in my opinion

OP? What?
Having both Shattered Conditions AND IP means that you have 10 remaining trait points.
So no Deceptive Evasion (shatters are more unreliable), no Boon Removal on Shatter (so your damage potential is lower).
You will basically become an utilitybot.
Not OP at all.

Bump for a good, useful guide

PD is more cheese because in WvW roaming it’s countered only by DP thieves.
And since you’re so good that you can kill them anyway, it must mean that PD is the most OP build ever.

Zerk guardians? Hammer warriors? PU mesmers? Condi Engineers? Regeneration Rangers? Have fun killing them with DP.

Standard build for S/D is 10 30 0 30 0.
30 points in critical strikes are mandatory for dealing any sort of direct damage.
Acrobatic is better than Trickery as it boosts Initiative gain and Vigor, so you will have more dodges overall.

Junkpile.7439:

Pavel.8531:

Valentin.2073:

lol. do you do that? always have someone else beside you to protect you? i wonder who’s gonna cry after you got the nerf you all deserved.

I don’t play my thief anymore. My warrior says “hi” – now vs him, 1v1 you can cry and cry and cry…

Where you find so bad thief that actually manage dies against condi spec?

From a thief PoV, I can tell that such a warrior would be close to impossible to beat for a Shadow Art Thief. His healing Power and Toughness are so high that our BS will hit him for 3-4k, which will be outhealed in 5s.
Good luck killing him.

Go back to your beloved pvp if you don’t I’ve being farmed.
You clearly know how to play this game and you clearly are a god tier player because everyone knows that zerker rangers are the best players around.
And you even have Champion Hunter title! Wow! Such might! Much pro! Very skill!

I usually solo roam. But people have evolved.
A few months ago, it was quite common to see small groups of people using bad builds with zerker gear who went down quickly to an experienced player. Now almost everyone is running full PVT. So the 1v3+ of before have become almost impossible to win nowadays, and unless you are facing upleveleds every outnumbered fight is going to be way tougher.
Now most solo roamers have taken root in the Obsidian Sanctum, dueling other people, which is way more fun IMHO.
I still solo roam though. But unless I’m on my thief I am forced to do it when I am near a safe spot (tower, keep or friendly zerg) because the chance of meeting a larger group is too high and I hate dying most than everything else.