Guild Wars 2

I think that a Full Zerk (with MAYBE some Valkyrie pieces) with Traveler Runes can be okish for a 2 6 6 0 0 build. Take Mug to compensate the loss of damage (instead than Fleet Shadow). If you reach 50% Crit Chance without foods you can also opt for taking Executioner instead than Hidden Killer.

For Sword builds, runes of the Pack are a very solid alternative to Strength.

Thieves, Rangers and Warriors.

Killing scrubs

BlackDevil.9268:

You asume the thief has full endurance and/or initive points. I, however, disagree. Most of the times the moment a thief goes into SR he’s out of any survivability, so he can sit in stealth for a while to reset the fight a bit. It doesnt take 5 seconds for a mesmer to blink to the the SR and use iwave on it. Hell it only takes 0.5 escond to do that. It, however, takes a bit longer than 0.5 seconds to restore his endurance.

A thief who always uses SR when he is below 30% hp is a dead and bad thief. Or he is a WvW SA thief
You will never see such things from high level players, as they know the risk they are undertaking when they place a refuge.

vincecontix.1264:

BlackDevil.9268:

vincecontix.1264:

Looks like lots of mesmers need practice mes> thief.

Or you just start watching ESL and see every mesmer getting kitten d by any thief that knows what they’re doing. Not these half kitten d idiots who think they can play thief by spamming 2 and 3. Sure, mesmer beats thief with PU dueling builds, but when we look at soloq/tpvp then it’s always thief > mesmer.

Soloq was what I was referring to here some videos: This video is mainly and video of me using my mesmer vsing all class but there are a couple of thief fights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY8Y7pvQQuA

This one is pre patch of me using one of my SoloQ builds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PLs0cReY9A its also actually easier to kill most thief due to the change to lyssa runes since they can no longer to get the boons b4 you nuke your target. Also when I do use the PU trait dealing with thiefs is just faceroll.

You’re playing condi mesmer.
Play a Shatter build then come back here.

The insane kiting potential of SD thieves(along with the possibility of stripping boons and peeling you) totally counters DD eles. Unless you are talking about fighting on a point, in which case you should not lose.

Despite my view of the meta thief SD build, I’m happy that there is something which keeps DD eles in check.

They changed it with May 20th patch.
It’s unusable now, to say the least. Even using it to dodge a skillshot could leave you exposed to even worse situations as the only way to cancel the aftercast is by swapping weapons (not even dodging work).

Cavalier pieces are solid choices as well. Not a full set, but getting some toughness is a good investment for a SA thief of any kind.

This is my view of the matter at hand. In doing this, I’m taking into account:
_1v1 capabilities (how many spec can a single spec fight without losing a point?)
_teamfight capabilities (how is this spec valued in a teamfight?)
_team utility (mobility, stealths, rezzing)

S tiers are specs that are currently over-performing mostly because there are close to no counters (or the counters are not enough viable to be considered worth using).
A tiers are specs that are overall balanced considered the whole meta. A+ are a bit over the top but can have a solid counter in every game. A- are really good specs that could get a small hand getting completely balanced.
B+ are specs that are worthwhile using because they can be extremely good in something but their weaknesses are too big to really fit in “any” composition.
B- are niche specs that could work if properly played and against certain enemies, but which have too many counters in a lot of fights.

S tier:
+S/D Trickery/Acro Thief
-D/D Celestial Ele

A tier:
+Hambow
=Bunker Guardian
-D/P Trickery Thief
-Condi Engi

B Tier:
+Condi Necro
+Spirit Ranger
+Condi Warrior
+Shatter Mesmer
+Staff Ele
+DPS Guardian
-Turret Engi
-Trap Ranger
-Power Necro
-S/D Ele
-MM Necro

C Tier:
=Zerk Ranger
=Condi Mesmer
=SA thief

Without Fleet Shadow is incredibly hard to reliably land clean Backstabs (which are the highest source of damage of DP SA).
I’m currently playing 06620 with Strength Runes and I am able to maintain 10ish might stacks. I still hit less than before, but I’d say that I can still win against the builds I used to win and I still lose against the build I used to lose (even if I now lose with a higher margin).
Don’t even engage a fight with a PU mesmer or a DD Ele as it’s pointless. PD you can go because 90% of its users are TOTALLY crap because they are just fotm rerollers who like easy mode, but it will change soon (I’d say 2 more months before they learn how to not lose against DP).

I’d say if they lower the duration to 2 base seconds it would be OK. Or, they could make it a buff like Incendiary Ammo so that the enemy player could dodge if he is careful enough to keep an eye to the enemy’s status bar.
Worst case scenario, they could also make it proc only on Pistol/Rifle autoattack.
And I play engi too, and I can still kill people without that trait.
People saying that IP “requires skill because you must not waste the proc on random trash” don’t have a clue about what “skilled” means.
“skilled” is using your wrench through a Fire field to proc a (dodge able) Burning, and making sure it connects.
Skilled is not “hit your enemy and watch them melt”.

This makes me recall something funny.
I killed a Condi engi on point as a DP thief (he was quite bad). When he dropped to 75% hp he released the group of mines they usually dropbfrom the trait.
A few seconds later, while I was still capping the point, a Hambow came. I started fighting him on point, then he activated Berserker Stance and used Hammer #4 immediately, which knocked me over.
The knock back made me hit a mine. Which procced Incendiary Powder. I took 4k damage (30% of my HP) and died soon afterwards.
Most skilled trait in the game. At least Dhuumfire was given to a class which don’t have a lot of random AoEs…

Shockwave.1230:

Hype.8032:

Thieves NEED strength runes to be relevant…. any nerf to this runeset should come with a thief buff. I agree that we should have more rune diversity though.

Thieves do not need this rune. S/D acro thieves need this rune or their damage is too low to be relevant.

+

I’d also say that the current thief meta is kinda disgusting, probably the worst of all the “metas” we have right now.

Crossplay.2067:

I’m not one to toss around hostility as that only turns a debate into an argument. However, between Null Field, Arcane Thievery, Phantasmal Disenchanter, Mind Stab, Mind Spike and Shattered Concentration, you can’t find a way to keep boons off of an opponent? Crazy as it would be, all of those skills, traits and utilities can be taken in one build. I don’t know of any class that can reapply Retaliation fast enough to outpace that. If you want to completely overkill the point, the Sigil of Nullification can be added too.

If you want a class that’s good at fighting zergs then you are in the wrong place. I also hate the fact that mesmers suck against groups but Anet did advertise it as a duelist profession. In that aspect, we got exactly what was on the tin. I can only hope that eventually we’ll get a weapon that will allow us to tag, bag and grab more proficiently.

Blackdevil is talking about big group fights, against which not a single thing you mentioned is a reliable source of “Retaliation removal”.

Maybe S/x Ele or Staff Ele.
Shatter Mesmer is still quite hard (0 condi removal, with D/P at least you have Shadowstep).

Everything else is faceroll EZ mode or just not viable.

Iavra.8510:

Actually, i expect every enemy to be lame condi bunker, not power glass

And you are kitten right at doing so. The number of people that run +40% condi duration food is skyrocketing.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

I’ll also add this: if they didnt nerf Lyssa Runes, (most) people would still be using them.

Rune of Strength is simply the best Runeset for dealing damage. It is simply “the best” runeset for Elementalists, Warriors and Thieves.
Same thing can be said for Rune of Balthazar for condi Engineers, rune of the Nightmare for Condi Necros, or Rune of the Soldier for Bunker Guardians.

Deli.1302:

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

I don’t play on US servers any more… but I find that difficult to believe. The skill level between t1 and t2 is immense on EU servers… a lot of guilds who used to be t1 have gone soft with easy kills. If they were better in t2 then they would not be in t2 for long because the server would rise up the ranks into t1.

I doubt the US is any different

I find it hard to believe you play on an EU server. There is no major skill difference between t1 and t2. The only big difference is coverage.
In EU, the skill level progressively get better going from t1 -> t4-5 before going back the other way from t6 downwards. You can’t possible think that guilds in t1 are better than the guilds on Piken, Gandara, FSP and Gunnar’s…… There are some exceptions like DISS on Riverside but for the most part, they are no where near as skilled. Most of them haven’t even done a single gvg.

In NA, the best guilds skill-wise are in T2. T1 is where the blob guilds and non-gvg guilds are in. T1 NA is 2-3 times the size of T2.

Add Aurora Glade to your list.

GvGs are important, but what’s most important is the mentality of the guilds in these servers. They do not play for points, they feel more challenged when they run with low numbers, they always play to get better and spend a lot of time theorycrafting and practicing new strategies and compositions. Not to mention that they have a strict selection on their members: if someone starts playing badly, he is out.

Whereas most guilds in kitten in EU only care about people repping the guild and joining their raids, something like “the more, the better”.

I’m ok with the +7% damage as anything that increases Power damage viability is good for this game.

What I don’t “like” is that classes like Ele and Warrior can dish out insane condi pressure due to Burning because of the 50% damage increase thanks 25 stacks of might.

You are using an “old” build. Before the Ferocity nerf, DP SA builds relied mostly on Backstabs to kill your opponent. Now the damage you dish out with a successful BS is not enough to kill most “meta” builds.

That said, it is still possible to win some fights with DP Shadow Arts. Don’t rely only on backstabs. Understand WHEN you can go trading autoattacks with your enemy.
I’d say that playing DP with SA successfully now takes a lot more skill than before: you must have complete knowledge of your opponent, and understand when it is the time to attack (usually after they have used some damaging skills with long CD).

For example, you can go toe-to-toe with a warrior if he has already used zerker stance and you stand inside a Blind field(but try to always have your Shadowstep ready in case you get stunned).
You can go toe-to-toe with a guardian if he has already used his GS#5 skill (use the stolen skill for when he uses his GS#2 attack).
You can go toe-to-toe with an Elementalist when you land your stolen skill AFTER he left water attunement so that he can’t move away from the Blind Field.

… and so on. There are countless of situations, but after the nerf to critical damage it is way harder to put pressure on your opponent.

Full glkittenter mesmers can beat them thanks to boon stripping. Same can be said for SD thieves. All other burst classes should never engage a 1v1 against a DD Ele unless said Ele is terrible.
For Condi, only counter are Condi Necros. If the Ele has 30 in water not even engis can hope to reliably beat them.

Straegen.2938:

PU Mesmer is probably the strongest WvW dueler right now, but that doesn’t really make it a great roamer as it is pretty slow. Its weakness is condition like most small fight builds.

P/D condi thief is a very strong roaming class right now but not particularly popular due to the D/P cheese builds most thieves gravitate towards. It plays similar to a PU Mesmer but has more stealth. Its weakness is condition like most small fight builds.

Warrior is probably the king roamer/dueler/skirmisher right now. Wicked fast with high levels of sustained damage and is incredibly easy to play. Small group fight builds manage conditions pretty well and can handle most 2v1 situations. They do have BIG blind spots with condition evasion and condition bunker builds.

Guardians and Necros have some fantastic skirmish builds but due to limited escape capability they don’t really do as well roaming.

P/D thief’s weakness are conditions? U joking right?
A P/D thief has 2 (pseudo) full cleanses: Hide in Shadows (cleanses every damaging condition + gives 4s of stealth in which the thief will cleanse 2 additional conditions) and Shadow Refuge (which provides 16 seconds of stealth, enough to cleanse every condition he suffers). Also add Shadowstep, for 3 instant condition clears+stunbreaker. Coupled with a lot of vitality thanks to Full Dire armor and a lot of Sustain thanks to Shadow Rejuvenation, a P/D thief is the ONLY condi class which can go toe-to-toe with a Condi Necro, because he can simply outsustain the necro.

The only weakness of P/D thieves is the lack of stunbreakers (only Shadowstep is a true Stunbreaker with a high cooldown; Blinding Powder is a pseudo stunbreaker), which they will use to get away and place a Shadow Refuge at 1200 range from you to completely reset the fight. P/D condi, with the new Bewildering Ambush trait, are the Kings of Cheese nowadays. They were kept in check by D/P thieves in the past, but with the Ferocity nerf D/P thieves simply don’t have enough damage output to kill a full dire P/D who barely knows how to dodge. The P/D will only need to land ONE CnD (either to the enemy or to any attackable object) to be guaranteed enough stealth uptime to have Shadow Refuge up whenever he needs it.

Anyway, to the OP: standard D/P is X 30 30 X 0. Gear can be a mix of Berserker/Valkyrie/Cavalier/Soldier. You have a lot of sustain but you will be vulnerable to Stuns and AoE attacks. Of course, if you keep your distance you will not die, ever. But you will not kill anyone (whereas with P/D you can easily kill people from range without having to worry much).
PU power mesmer only loses to P/D thieves and to skilled condi necros. Extremely good Eles can be a tough opponent too.
PU condi mesmer will lose to P/D and to condi necros easily.

DanyxEleven.9162:

@Space: Right. I think my issue is finding a good balance between defense and offense, and also when I do find a good balance, it involved melee which seems next to useless against quicker opponents. I’m not looking for as much as a cure-all for every situation as much as I am trying to figure out what might work for me. As much as I don’t want to be as squishy as a mesmer or thief, it seems like I may have to try that.

@Phlogus: I’m running on Devona’s Rest, and judging from your sig, I’m guessing you know exactly how that is. I usually try 1v1 in arenas against my gf, who has recently been gunning down my builds with her necro (3/0/5/6/0 Soldier gear). I don’t have a spectator but I might be able to check with a guildie for that.

Just a reminder, I’m less trying to find a “perfect” build as much as one that may be better to my playstyle. My issues are:
-Balance between offense and defense
-Maintaining speed to get around the map (can’t find a balance between build and boosts)
-Melee range/ranged damage (it seems like I only deal damage in melee, but I can’t seem to stay in range. Likewise, ranged damage seems insignificant)

The game definitely needs more D/P thieves. Everyone rerolled to P/D.
90% of my roaming encounters are P/D condi thieves or PU mesmers.
D/P was a counter to P/D, now it’s not anymore. And PU mesmers should never lose to a D/P thief.
Draw your conclusions.

With a PU build (along with the 40% condi duration food) it’s totally possible to mix Power and Condi in the same spec.
Stack Rabid gear until you have between 400-600 Condition Damage, then start getting Zerker/Valkyrie/Soldier pieces.
GS+Sw/P. GS clones will stack a lot of bleeds, and the iDuelist pressure is insane on enemies.

BlackDevil.9268:

@hihey
Well, the max amount of hits would be 100 ( i guess? Since 20 shards is max and has a 5 targets maximum?) but the chance such small radius aoe’kitten 5 targets constantly is really low, so I highly doubt it will be much more retal damage than BF does to you.

I don’t know if the max amount of hits is 100 or 60, but I can guarantee that I literally KILLED myself with one use of Ice Bow #4 a few times. And I had 20k-ish HP at that time. Do your math.

There are a lot of skills which get hugely affected by Retaliation damage. Engineers grenades are another example: when traited with Grenadier, you throw 3 grenades each with a cap of 3 people. So you could get up to 9 ticks of Reta per volley.

Wells are another example: 5 pulses, each affecting up to 5 people. That’s 25 ticks of reta.

You’ve never used Ice Bow on a group of people before then.

LordByron.8369:

Engi trying to put condition happens sometimes..
Ether renewal takes care of them and once MS hit, you don t need tornado no more.
Mesmer GS is the real annoyance (they can keep pressure), you can deal with everything else.

I don t agree also on water 5.
Since nerf it became really bad, better just go 6 in fire or something else.

Instead i have an interesting debate:
Tempest defense VS lighting rod.

Does tempest defense damage apply to static aura damage? or the disable happens after the damage?

In the second case tempest defense is only a win more trait.
Yet lightning rod applies to more skills.

At least is nice to see that effectively there are many 06044 builds around (and some 60044 also and similar).

Just for your info:
26044 with celestial armor and zerker everything else.
Does almost 200% dps compared to your.

Tempest Defense applies his damage boost only to all kinds of disabled enemies→Every ally that uses a Hammerstun will increase the damage you do by 20%. You don’t have much control over that (the only way is to use a Static Field followed by a Meteor Shower), but it’s definitely the best trait (in the best traitline, as Air>Fire) for dealing damage as a staff ele.

That said, skilled WvW groups from EU usually run either 0 2 0 6 6 or 0 0 2 6 6 on their staff eles. Stats vary from Celestial/Knight/Soldier. In skilled WvW groups, Staff Eles are meant to provide some sustain to the group with the correct use and rotation of their Waterfields, coupled with some really damaging skills. A well placed and coordinated Meteor Shower→Tornado combo is enough to wreck a group of 20+ people.
Full DPS staff eles are only “useful” in zergs because you rarely have to care about thieves/mesmers focusing you. But as soon as someone focuses you and understands you are DPS specced, you are dead if you are out of position.

So many WvWers and PU heroes in this thread.

Vylor.3276:

any WvW group is going to have an ele run this setup.

False. I know no groups (at least in EU) who use this trait for their staff eles.

Totally unviable for WvW roaming unless you plan to gank upleveleds. Any FotM build would totally destroy you.

This is for PvE, right?

sinject.4607:

barely any warriors run soldier’s amulet, it doesn’t make any sense to run it given the 0/0/6/2/6 build.

Lolwut?
With the change to how sigils work and the buff to Sigil of Intelligence, Soldier Hambow 0 0 6 2 6 with Strength Runes has NEVER been more viable than today.
Especially since the nerf to Lyssa made Warriors more vulnerable to conditions, so that additional 5k HP from the amulet are extremely handy.

Today I’ve met only P/D thieves while I was roaming with my (not PU) mesmer. Only exception was a condi necro, along with a bunker/regen ranger.

P/D is worse than D/P in terms of annoyance. P/D is the only condi build that can reliably beat a condi necro. The only way to beat a P/D is to go FULL (and I mean FULL) zerk and take them down in a single burst. Otherwise, they will just stealth and reset the fight at ease.
I don’t think it should be nerfed though. I usually troll them with Shadow Traps or sneaky Moa Morphs after I went back inside a tower to change utilities.

Pretty basic stuff here.
I’d write more about the shortbow though. What really defines a thief’s combat skill is the use of SB IMHO. Not many use it, and not many use it correctly.

Best part at 1:20.
You two even get downed from 2 guys, one of which was UPLEVELED.

Did you watch the video before uploading?
0 clutch plays btw.

NeXeD.3042:

My jimmies remain unrustled. So a guild tried playing with a 300 ping and god knows what kind of packet loss and lost to people pinging 10 yeah sweet sample size.

Blaming LAG as the cause of losing 5-x (where x<3) in a BO9, where in most rounds the opposing team didnt even suffer a single loss, is really for sore losers. EP themselves stated that EU guilds were better than them.

I believe the guy with the biggest ego here is you though. I don’t know why, but I have this strange “feeling” that you are replying to this thread only to prove wrong what countless of people from both NA and EU have been stating for months.

Anyway, I think I’ll make a vacation to NA as soon as Season 2 ends, I’ll see by myself the difference between EU and NA players. From my previous experience though, based exclusively on PvP (I played with my alt account in NA, but never got a character to lv80 to enjoy WvW there), NA players are way worse than EU. But this is WvW we’re talking about. We’ll see.

Westside.7213:

Im definitely interested.

Since you asked, this is the build link:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsaBlknpRNmphbtRaNmTn0RNRqAK9FZUNA-TlTDwAvVDonSMKnCg87PATlCBmQqqUAqSiuKDApPYhSQAmok8EAipqCpAeaBA-w

Basic strategy is to “play” with your Phantasms and your opponent’s reaction to them. If he doesn’t care about them, he is going to melt, unless he is full zerk (in which case try not to get hit and use your teleports to AVOID damage rather than as stunbreaks).

If he tries to kill them, which a good player should do, you have to be “creative”: your main damage comes from your phantasms, but YOU can still do a lot of damage, so be ready to use all your skills, and don’t just try to kite while your phantasms do all the work.
In order to avoiding your Phantasms to die, there are a few tricks you can use:
_Avoid grouping your phantasms. The iDueler will spawn right next to you, while the iZerker will spawn next to your enemy and will do a Whirlwind. Wait until the Whirlwind animation is over, then cast your iDuelist as far as possible from the iZerker. If you cast iDuelist first, chances are the iZerker will do the Whirlwind toward you (because your enemy might be charging at you), with the result that both the iDuelist and the iZerker will get hit by the same AoE attacks, dying together and crippling your damage by a lot.

_lure your enemy into a trap. This is my favourite, but very risky: try to look desperate, staying at low HP but with your utilities ready (so you can escape whenever you want). This will lure your enemy to attack you rather than your phantasms, but since you have all your utilities ready you will not die (assuming you planned everything in your mind); meanwhile, your Phants will do a lot of damage to your enemy.

_Try casting your Phantasms together: this will confuse your opponent as to which Phantasm to kill first, while the other one (and you) will be free to deal his damage.

Other intersting things you must know about this build:
_If you are finding lots of condi classes, consider picking the Healing Mantra as your heal. Between the healing mantra AND Shattered Conditions, you have an amazing condi cleanse potential. The only class you will somewhat fear are P/D thieves, but only because of their sustain thanks to CnD your illusions. All other condi classes are a joke with the healing mantra and SC.

_Use your shatters. If you have 2 phantasms up and you have 2 phantasms off CD, shatter your illusions. With the increased Mind Wrack damage, your Mind Wrack will hit for a lot. Also, if you see your enemy going after your phants, consider shattering your illusions to get a free burst on a unaware enemy (most people who go after Phants do not expect to get a sudden 3-4k burst from a Mindwrack). Also, if all your Phants are dead, feel free to use F1 or F2. F3 should be used only to interrupt a key skill (heal on a low HP enemy which you can finish by yourself).

_Shattered Conditions is an amazing condi removal. But it has a drawback: aside from your F4, all other Shatter skills do not take place as soon as you press the key, as your illusions will need to get near your target (and you need to be close to the shatter point too, otherwise you won’t get any cleanse). Which means, use F4 when you are condi loaded and you need a cleanse ASAP.

_The third utility can vary. Arcane Thievery is great against D/D Eles (use when they have 15+ stacks of might). Mantra of Resolve is another good source of condi removal if you are having troubles with condis but you don’t want to take the Healing Mantra.
Veil is another good option for extra survivability, which in open field can mean a lot.
Daze Mantra is godlike against D/P thieves. Even Portal can be a good choice if you are good at planning ahead.

_Don’t get waste your phantasms when you are blinded. Missing a single Phant means death against a good opponent.

_General rotation should be: Start with GS, #4->#2->#3->Swap to SW+P->#4->#3->(swap with #3)->#2.
Save GS #5 for thieves when they get into refuge. Pistol #5 takes too long to be a reliable interrupt, so I’d suggest using it for setting something up (either do #4->#5, to ensure that all the bullets from iDuelist hit, or use it to cover your heal).

_Since you have Deceptive Evasion, you will never have more than 2 phantasms up: if you cast a third phant, as soon as you dodge the oldest of your phantasms will get overriden by a clone: shatter your illusions instead than having them die a meaningless death.

_Last trick: if you end the casting animation of iDuelist when you are jumping off a cliff, the iDuelist will spawn in the air. This will make it very difficult to be killed, so try to keep this in mind when you are fighting in open field: use the terrain to your advantage.

Anyone knows where can we see these new faces without having to buy the Total Makeover Kit?
Apparently, Dulfy site is down :/

Gakeman.5296:

Hey guys,
I can kill most mesmer with sword only easy . No clue how most mesmer cant think, that thief does not hard counter them. I guess a little nerf to “Consume Plasma” is totally okay.

I killed mesmers with off hand dagger ONLY, but that only makes the player I faced terribad.
I also killed thieves without any weapon on my mesmer, relying only on clone procs, but that also makes the thief I faced terribad.

Look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYjyvreIrqI
Do you think they should nerf thieves because I beat a perplexity engi with only one dagger?

Prysin you have no clue how pvp works and how good veteran pvp players are.

I run with my Shatter/Phantasm build in WvW and it’s really fun. No PU, I’ll never use that garbage.

Hard match up are DD eles, tanky Axe/Shield warriors, which will never go down.
SA power thieves usually reset the fight tenfold, PU mesmers can be beaten with ace play.
Engineers and Condi Necros are really balanced fights which can really entertain you.
Bunker Regeneration Rangers are just dumb, you will never go down to them and they will not either, especially after Ferocity nerf.

Build is 10-30-0-30-0. Gs/Sw+P. Going to post a video and a more detailed build link later of you’re interested as I’m on my mobile phone now.

Are you talking about pve, pvp or WvW?

Is this another “nerf thief” thread?

I doubt you’ve played pvp much before the patch then, because with the old Lyssa Runes, Thieves had quite a lot of Stability against Mesmers. Now killing a DP for a Shatter/Interrupt build is not as difficult as before.

musu.9205:

Chicago Jack.5647:

BlackDevil.9268:

Maybe you never faced good thieves then, cause overall, thief is the hard-counter to mesmers at the moment.

The reason why thieves have a better game against mesmers is not because of consume plasma.

Sure , but could we change it to give mesmer more chance against thief.

Most Stolen skills are intended to provide help against the spec the thieves are fighting.

This aside, in a “pure” 1v1, Power Mesmers (Shatter, Interrupt, Phantasm) vs Power Thieves (D/P Trickery, S/D, S/P) is not “that” obvious. The reason thieves counter mesmers in a PvP match is because mesmers are “forced” to use Portal (and/or IoL) to really be of use in any high end PvP match; not to mention that they have less ports than thieves, meaning that a thief could easily jump on the mesmer whenever he wants during a teamfight, locking him down really fast.

But, as I said before, in a “pure” 1v1, most mesmer’s specs do have the potential to beat any kind of thief’s spec. Sure, it’s not easy, but it’s quite doable if you manage it.

And Consume Plasma is fine as it is.

I’m speaking from both a thief AND a mesmer perspective, as I’ve played both for a long time.

The only things “wrong” about the Warrior’s Longbow are the ~600 Burning ticks when they (easily) get 25 stacks of Might.
With the current Condi Meta, the nerfs to Arcing Arrow and Pindown, I find LB to be quite balanced at the moment.

Chicago Jack.5647:

In general, D/P is stronger against all other thief weaponsets, but is more vulnerable to cleave damage relative to all other weaponsets.

I don’t agree. Assuming the D/P is not SA, DP has no way to cleanse conditions. A well placed Steal on a D/P will reduce the effectiveness of Withdraw by A LOT, whereas S/x thieves can freely cleanse the poison. Also, if the S/x user stands away from the Blind Field, he could freely apply Weakness on the D/P thief, reducing their damage by a lot. And if the D/P is using HiS as a heal, then the S/D could easily interrupt it with his Steal.
Keep in mind that it is way more difficult for the D/P thief to land his steal on the S/D, as D/P has way less dodges.

I believe the current S/D 2 0 0 6 6 build to be the “best” weapon against other thieves. Of course, D/P and S/P are still able to kill another S/D thief in a match and in a 1v1, but that would require the x/P thief to be overall better than his opponent.

I will keep using D/P anyway. It’s way more fun even if it is more difficult. Also, it is the “only” weaponset which makes us really shine as players when we play it well: sometimes you will get praised by other players when you accomplish something meaningful

Ryan.9387:

OP nailed all the main points. To be a bit more specific on them:

1) Shortbow is required for spirit ranger to prevent cleave, but is a terrible weapon for 1v1.

2) Condi cleanse changes have functioned much like power creep and has made condi sidepoint builds no longer viable on ranger. Nerfs to sustain have solidified this.

3) Rampant boon strip/stealing make rampage as one hurtful for power rangers to bring to a fight.

4) The traitlines for builds like traps are appalling, and even traited versions underperform compared to other classes (e.g. engie). Changes to these builds have been comedic, rather than useful. (Poision field lasts 1.5s, too short to combo sword 2 through)

It is sickening that I’ve had to reroll another class just to be viable because of consistent dlnerfs to ranger and power creep for other classes.

Pretty much. Spirit Rangers were the “Ancestors” of MM Necros, with the difference that they were more supportive but still good at 1v1s because of many reasons (their condi pressure was really good, and the survivability thanks to the Protection+Elite Spirit was amazing).
Now it’s terrible for 1v1s. Among the “meta builds”, I don’t think there is a single build that can reliably get beaten by a Spirit Ranger.

Woaden.9425:

Over-all, the condi engi & necro are a hard counter for 6 acro builds with no SA.

Condi Necros do not hardcounter thieves. They have nowhere the same amount of defense+offense as Engis.
If they have a full DS + Plague it will be really hard of course, but if they have 20-30% DS and no Elite (or just the Golem) it is doable. You have 2(3) stunbreakers, one will be used to break the “nightmare runes” fear, the other one should be used for one Doom. Avoid the Reaper Mark and interrupt their heal with your steal. Lock them down with the stolen Fear + Basi venom and you will be able to kill them.