I use P/P // SB on some dungeons where I dont want to get close.
Sometimes you don’t know how bad is the PUG and you just want to keep a safe distance from the MF geared, dmg-spec guardian.
If people are going to run around with anti-stealth fields, I want to be able to buy some explosives and plant then on siege to blow it up.
Think about it… costs 5 supply, channel it to a siege in melee range and it blows up in 10 secs knocking back everyone in 200 range of it.
Channel lasts 5 secs to set it.
Shadowstep, Roll for Initiative and Infiltrator’s Strike are all stunbreaks that also create distance between you and the thief. That first one actually breaks stun on two activations for its 50 second cooldown, and that last one is a weapon skill that costs 3 initiative for the strike, and 2 to go back and escape.
This doesn’t include Haste and Infiltrator’s Signet which both try and drive the thief into an aggressive counter-attack. Or any traits relating to receiving control conditions.
Basically, the thief has access to very good stun breaks for escaping a fight.
Thief has some good stun-breakers, true. But hardly anyone uses more than one, as it really demands too much of their valuable utility slots.
Shadowstep is a good one, as you can use twice in a roll, but dont think of it as a double stun-breaker. Your time to use the second one is limited and in lots of situations if you use it it will get you back to a spot you were already trying to get away of.
Infiltrator strike is not a stun breaker. Infiltrator return is. So if you are going to use it as such, better not to open the attack with steal.
Infiltrator signet is a dangerous one to use. If you get the BRush-100b warrior combo it will port you directly to the jaws of the beast…
Smoke bomb is not a stun-break but it works great in those situations also.
Depends on what you think its fun.
There is a nice video showing small group tactics in WvW on ANet channel:
If you think any of those are fun you can go out and do lots of it solo or with a few people.
You can still move while unloading…
I still think that body shot should be your autoattack (with less vulnerability, 1 stack of 5sec per shot) and vital shot should be the #2 (with more bleed).
IMO, makes the set better for both p/d (dump ini on #2 to stack more bleeds and cover them with aa vulnerability for harder cleansing) and for p/p (increase overall dmg with more vul stacks without draining ini for the unloads)
Boom removal on a spamming ranged skill sounds a bit OP.
I use it in some situations, mostly pve boss fights or PvP 1v1s against GCs.
On bosses its great to overcome the boss CC immunity and interrupt a powerful attack.
The low CD makes it great to use it frequently on a boss fight.
On PvP its great to get a stun before going for a burst (d/d) or to chain another stun (S/D).
The low CD makes it great to use with lyssa runes for extra cond cleanse and buffs.
The best way to pin down a thief is not a game-mechanic.
Yes, you can CC them, knock them out, and many other things…
But if you beat a thief to 10% while you are above of 75%, and the thief did everything on you for nothing. Yes, they are going to say “screw you guys, I’m going home”…
Bait the thief to stay in the fight and finish him when he thinks he can beat you.
Thiefs can get very self-confident on their escape and step a bit too far from safety.
Most of the times I lost (loosing meaning died, not running away) with my thief on WvW was because I was tricked to stay longer than I should.
The thing with the ranger is, the pet…
The ranger (BM) can have huge survivability with tons of regen and evades doing some dmg and conditions but his pet hits like a truck. And no one, in pvp focus on the pet.
Some cats can crit you for more than 8k dmg with the right set-up (sic’em+signet+traits)…
He can also pick other pets to do different things:
some buffs with birds, heals with moas, control with dogs, etc… So rangers are very adaptable… And you dont want ever to go swim with them…
When you fight a ranger, remember about the pet. dont turn your back to a cat and dont let a dog jump on you!
I use a build with 0/15/30/25/0 (S/D // D/P) and I can take out most bunkers if I don’t mess things up or if they don’t get help. It takes some time to do it.
It’s not so good for sPvP, because to take the bunker you need constant teleport and stealth, and this don’t help to cap the CP, so the opponent still get most of the points while you try to take him down.
What I do is start with S/D to harass the opponent and steal his buffs while doing a lot of teleports and stuns to avoid dmg and cc. You need to know the opponent to know when to steal buffs (guard shouts, engis elixir, etc) and when to change to D/P. Usually after trying to get his full buffs out you can steal it and when the opponent is near 50% health you need to change tactics to d/p. Use the pistol to interrupt and get the BP field to avoid dmg. Dont just BP-HS, get maximum auto-attack chain inside the BP, at this point in the fight, the poison on the last attack can be very helpful. HS-BS and try to finish the fight before the opponent get his CD back or a heal. If he succeeds in getting buffs again or heal, go back to S/D some more…
It takes time and skill to take down a good bunker, as it should be…
But I found out that going full GC will mostly get you killed against good bunkers…
If he waits until he comes out of stealth (not using his stealth attack) to attack he wont get the revealed debuff, so then he can stealth again.
My experience is that a thief is fun to play, but its not as “effective” as other classes in a lot of areas that are important in the game.
In dungeons thiefs bring little to the table that other professions can’t bring better or safer. Yes, a thief can dps, but a warrior can do it with less risk, more reliability and still bring some group buffs. Guardians, warriors and mesmers bring more to the group and can still do huge dps, and its a group scenario…
In tpvp a thief can roam, but has a hard time contesting/holding points as it relies on mobility and/or stealth to stay alive. Again, its a group scenario and the thief brings not much to the group that other professions cant do better (or have more tools to do it better)
In WvW its a good profession to go 1v1 or cap non-upgraded S-Camps. But again… other professions can do that just as easy and still bring more to the Zerg scenario, and zergs are what really metters as they are the ones getting the upgraded stuff and winning the points.
In overland PvE its a fast class to move around maps and get those vistas and stuff, but you will have problems trying to solo group events and/or champions that other professions have more tools to deal with, while still being able to roam fast on the map.
All in all… Thief is fun to play, its challenging and can do everything in the game. But other professions can do the same things better or just bring more to group-play.
It actually does.
Back weapons can be set crossed to each other, and hip-side weapons can be set parallel next to each other.
It really depends on implementation.
If its something that its not spammable (need supply or has CD), and its like thiefs traps (on activation only) instead of ranger traps (long time fields) I dont see a big problem with it.
I use it to travel around and change it to different utilities based on occasion.
The problem is when combat finds me before I can change it…
Another thing I do to get speed is to play a bit on my norn guardian… then get back to my human thief… no need for swiftness, no need for SoS, it just seems sooooo fast!
Setting a shadow refuge somewhere and teleporting out of it makes opponents VERY confused.
Id like to be able to see both the weapon sets on the character model.
This would help on pvp, to see whats the secondary weapons the opponent have; and
Would also be nice to have your sets showing, so you can walk around with your bow on your back while you hold your sword and dagger.
There might be some clipping issues, but I cant see them being a major problem or worse than what’s currently in the game.
It’s an important visual cue for PvP, WvW. It probably needs to stay.
I don’t understand the idea behind this statement, it’s very redundant, you can still see the buff “Aegis” under the portrait, which is where you’ll be looking at for buffs, nobody will be looking at the guardian’s left arm to see if there’s that tiny glow beside the guardian himself when he’s taking pictures.
Not completely true.
Lots of times I look to the opponent to see if he have the aegis up, as his buff-bar is completely full and clustered with virtues, buffs, food, and (in WvW) keep-buffs.
I think there is a Moa Race in the works…
The race track is there in LA to see it…
We’re a serious roleplaying secret society WvW guild that doesn’t let our servers dictate our LOVE for everyone!
Join us today!
So thats why it takes so long in the queue!
Group photos take time to set it right…
Dear A-Net, make a gem-pack that gets a percentage of its sells donated to the poor.
Everyone gets happy.
I’m not sure getting signet mastery just for a 8sec reduction on the heal is that much worth. I like going with the shelter heal for blocks.
2h mastery, depends on what you run. I feel it helps more the Hammer than anything else for more blasts on the aa-symbol.
I like the 0/0/30/30/10 in WvW as it gives me 2 builds with the same points.
I can go Meditation-MF with improved symbols and more retaliation for Solo-roaming
or I can go shouts-AH with improved consecrations for group-fights.
Not sure what you are doing,
But my wall of reflection is reflecting 8k shots in MF…
On final boss, wall of reflection+shield of the avenger+shield bubble protects your group from the firestorm boss aoe while you melee the other guy.
on trash, LoS+Hammer CC+WoR+"Everyone AOE now!" clear mobs really fast… The regen and protection of HtL coupled with the constant protection+retaliation from hammer makes things great…
Just dont be that guardian that pushes mobs all over the place with your shield and get your group on the center of a cross-fire without any chance to protect itself…
Oh yeah… And it kitten es me off when I use banish to remove a mob from the flaming invul circle just to have a freaggin spammy ranger to use his bow to push the mob right back in there.
(edited by lLobo.7960)
The buff to signets made some rangers very sturdy. Along with that, the popularization of a regen bunker build going into WvW… Just take care with their pets, the ranger might not do a lot of dmg, but their cats…
I’m having never-ending battles against some d/d eles that run the anti-cond runes/food. You cant hold them with anything, so the fight is all about you to zaping all over the place. Had 2 fights against one ele using this setup last week that took more than 20min each.
Same with a bunker engi. He puts all conditions on me, I cleanse, he pops all his buffs, I steal them, I burst him to near death, he pops his elite and burst me, we both retreat… rinse and repeat for about 15-20min until someone else arrives and one of us stealth and run away…
But, I see all this as a great change!
Before I could not engage any of those specs and expect to have a good fight.
Would be funny on pve…
When the thief stealths to do his BS, someone from the group need to be on voice chat with him to tell where to aim… “Left!! No, back a bit to the right! Oh he moved, left again! The other left!!!”
Every 3 seconds…
“Blind thief lfg!”
Might give us some ranger dog pet to help us get to targets.
-Guardian who constantly pushes things out of aoe with shield or hammer.
This one really kitten es me off… Even more when the mob has defiant on it…
When I go GS, run in front, pull all mobs toguether and when Im about to go on WW for huge AoE and group might stacks, the other guard (Sw/Sh, because it looks cool) spread them around… now we are sitting in the center of a big crossed fire…
Facepalm, fall back, wait for the guardian to die and start complaining…
Look for when it’s somewhat calm in the area and try to sneak in. You only have to “F” it! At least that’s what I did in my impatience. Stripped naked and suicide rushed to them.
Just like this wise guy said. Run naked for your wolf!
They can name a movie after that…
Thief wins if there is water or a boulder to jump on top of…
WvW/PvE or sPvP?
I run a balanced build (S/D // D/P) and get somewhere around this (unbuffed):
– 3k attack rating (power I think its around 2k)
– 2.6k armor(toughtness is about 1.5k I think)
– 50/80 crit chanc/dmg
– 14k/300 hp/healing
Its a very survivable build for WvW but it doesnt have the full dmg potential of a thief.
I can still get some 6k BS sometimes, but they are mostly around 4k.
This stats are with full exotics (only ascended is the necklace) and no food, stacks or buffs…
I want Moa Morph to be a condition so I can get a team of necros to epidemic an entire enemy zerg into Moas.
A man can dream…
That would be epic…
I would run around the Moas with my Norn in wolf-form trying to tackle them!!
All while screaming “CHICKEN!”
to the guys defending this feature – how would you like it if RTL didn’t go on cooldown if it was blocked or missed in the same manner??
Thats a terrible comparison… If you miss RTL you still get the gap-closer/opener (most even use it to miss, thats why the changes). BS (or any stealth attack) dont give thiefs anything if they miss and need to be performed on a limited time (3-4 secs after sucessful stealth)…
Want a better comparison?
– How much CD and adrenaline costs a missed eviscerate? do you get the leap if you miss?
– How many times can you try to hit (burn) someone with FoJ before it consumes its charge?
– If you miss your first strike do you still have “opening strike” on the next one? Even if that Swop just got you 1500 closer to target?
The list goes on…
Guardian is not “destroyed”. And there is much more to a guardian than just boons…
Before the patch a thief had nearly no chance against a guardian. Regen+Protection+Retaliation… guardian could just stand still on his GS simbol and the thief would just die…
Now it really depends on the skill of each player.
I can actually think of killing a guardian on my thief now.
And on my guard I actually have to play to kill a thief instead of just waiting for the thief to kill itself.
You guys are overreacting. Most people are complaining about aspects of sword dagger that existed pre-patch. Where were the calls for nerfs then?
Before the patch there wasnt youtube videos on S/D builds…
Now there is…
NERF YOUTUBE VIDEOS!
The poison is at the very end of the chain and only lasts 2s, that’s 2 ticks for 300 damage. Dagger is also a power weapon so why would a condition even matter?
the poison is there to get you that nice “10%dmg if target has a condition” thing…
Thats why your power trait line has cond duration on it…
Move “Vital shot” to #2 and increase the bleed stack to 2-3 3sec bleeds
Move “body shot” to #1
This way P/P can get more vulnerability to increase its dmg, p/d gets more bleeds at the cost of ini and can put some vulnerability to help with condition removers…
As was mentioned earlier in this thread, we have stated that we are unable to provide a reply to all suggestions posted in the suggestion subforum.
We do, however, regularly read the suggestions forum and deliver feedback to the design team on a daily basis. Just because you haven’t seen a reply does not mean it’s not being read.
Could we get a “dev +1” so we know a dev has checked the topic and we can feel all warm and fuzzy inside?
I don’t care whether KillingFrenzy or any of you can be Civil … that list I showed shows that this game is supposed to reward/punish you for good/bad play. Backstabbing someone who is blocking/dodging/has_aegis/etc. is bad play and you should be punished for it by being revealed.
I can’t help but notice people completely glazing past the list …
From the January 2013 Patch Notes:
My first toon was a thief, and after that I made a guardian…
I couldnt understand why guardians would not get their VoJ removed when something blocked/dodged/invul the attack. Even on GS auto-attack you get a second chance to hit something with the third attack if you miss!!
While on my thief, if I popped a skill on the wrong time, it goes to waste…
Stealth should not be removed on passive blocks/invuls, it should not be removed on misses/evadeds… on active blocks, yes… but I think thats not possible to distinct atm…
Oh yea… if you want to get on it…
Make skills cost (lass than) half initiative when they miss/block/invul…
Seems all other classes I play get less than half a CD when they screw something…
(edited by lLobo.7960)
If you are walking around and see a thief stealing someone’s boons (both thief and the other guy are foes). Is it ok to steal the thiefs stolen boons?
I mean… should there be an agreement there somewhere?
Regen monster ranger with fully traited cat pets, S/D // GS is great for roaming and small fights… People usually ignore the pet… BIG mistake.
If this guy was as good with his game as he is good in QQ in the forums he would be on the frontpage of the leaderboards now…
[edited] removed OP name
What build do you use?
Zerker/Valk is a bad thing if you are going condition…
I use a balanced build and go for Knights/Zerk/Valk myself…
I think it gives a nice feel of a real living world…
But I’m all for the new dungeons becoming a fractal (with some adjusts) so we can keep the challenge part of it in the game permanent.
I play a thief (among other classes) on US T1 and can get tons of solo/small group time.
Find the zerg, go around and get the people trying to get to the zerg.
Find a good spot to lure them to and you will get good fights…
I checked the quiver for my thief and it was really weird..
its a short human thief, and the quiver was not really on his back, but floating behind him, there was quite a big gap.
Not sure if it was just a problem with the preview, but I really dont want to get it and end up not using it…
Warrior is okay but lacks the Regen capabilities unless use Signet. Unless I am missing something
Warrior can have HUGE regen sources…
Healing signet – passive regen
Adrenal health – passive regen based on adrenaline
New trait – regeneration every time CC’ed (and less CC time)
Banner of tactics – healing power (and regeneration if traited)
add heavy armor to that and the huge health pool…
Thief-style (as in the game, Thief) stealth based on the environment would be fantastic and (as a Mes main) I’d welcome it with open arms, problem is that GW2’s maps are not terribly complex and many, even in sPvP, consist of huge, plain swathes of flat land and broad daylight.
AND, the bright floating name-plates (and dmg) make it just useless.
No, it’s risen.
Tun-dun-tah!
To better reply this we need to know what do YOU consider “fun to play”.
Better yet, explain what in the class gameplay makes you exit the game after 10 minutes.
Pls clarify what you think is good and bad so we can point you in a direction.
I agree with some things and not with others in the OP.
Yes, more no-target skills/cc could help.
What if the stealth buffs were moved to the revealed debuff?
- regen health when revealed is up
– 100% crit in revealed (no backstab garantee crit, but 3-4 secs of crits?)
– gain 2 initiative when revealed
– remove a condition every 3 secs you have revealed.
This would force the thief to stay in combat more than in stealth to keep its benefits.
It would not hurt so much players that keep active in fights, but it would reduce the benefits of stealth for long times to fully recover.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Buff-revealed/first#post1924956
My first thought was also the same…
About the thematic, for those that need, the thief that focus on the revealed, is focusing on the surprise, for those 3-4secs of revealed he has the surprise on his side and thus getting bonus from it. after that, he can stealth again to try to regain surprise or manage the fight with his evasion, blinds and other defenses.
I dont think it will make ALL QQers better. But it would address some points of stacking stealth to maximize its benefits.
Thiefs can still stack stealth, but the benefits would be more tactical (re-evaluate the fight, reposition, retreat) then game-machanics (more regen and new burst while opponent is still vulnerable)
As I said, its just an idea that could use some work and maybe become viable…