Guild Wars 2

i don’t understand, how does me having to stick a different stat combination on my character and then doing everything exactly the same make content more interesting?

if i’m doing exactly the same thing in either soldier or berserker what benefit does this “variety” have besides having to waste gold getting gear and to switch it around all the time if I want to optimise?

99% chance it’s rezardi

if he still plays

REZARDI ARE YOU THERE

well if you watch the video the guy like didn’t even use his dodge key so having a healer is probably necessary if you want to unbind that

we already know other playstyles are viable

you’re preaching to the choir

well healing surge is good for starting fights with 15%+ from berserker’s power

can someone give me an actual reason why ANet would make new dungeons when it’s a minority of people who play them and the majority of their money is made producing open world content for the masses to play, who enjoy playing them?

like I get that everyone here wants instanced content, but from a business perspective, why should ANet bother when they’ll only get a poor return on it?

are those just text boxes or is our character actually voiced?

how did skill versatility even matter when the one cc skill you used was ice bow 5 and literally anything else was just a filler so some dude could pick up a bow and do it again

…

Mirta.5029:

timmyf.1490:

Good player recognizes that the meta comes about through the collective experience of thousands of players and hundreds of thousands of hours and has enough humility to recognize his own experience pales in comparison.

the current meta is beserker. From what I’ve seen it’s not the most fun, not the most useful and at least 70% of useless raging pugs follow it, so in general it’s not great. It’s not what’s the best period, but rather what is the most widespread.

not that fun? since when did some random person’s opinion become such mandate that it could be used to claim that a meta “in general it’s not great”?

and no, the meta consists of a mixture of raw DPS and support DPS builds which happen to use berserker and/or assassin stats with some variation in runes and sigils. anyone who says “berserker is the meta” is either a clued up person being lazy and trying to shorthand or someone who doesn’t actually understand what the meta is and trying to pretend they know what they’re talking about.

speaking from an efficiency standpoint, the meta is the best, I don’t even know why you’re arguing against that – you might have had a point a year or so ago when we knew a lot less than we did now, but the meta is pretty set in stone at this point with all the research put in to it.

You get 2 dodges. If the boss decides to attack for a 3rd time, you die.

use an energy sigil/activate a skill that grants vigour/trait for vigour/use a block/use another invulnerability source/etc.

Your heal as a cooldown. You die.

you tend to stay alive when you heal, not die

Sorry, protection won’t save you, and not all professions get it.

well actually it gives you PVT level of tankiness without even gearing that way, so yeah it will

Blinds are a valid point though. Its possible to become pretty much immortal with a full blind build.

blind build

lol

i don’t even

pretty sure this post was just bait though, in which case 10/10

actually, make it so if you invest in to healing power you can fully burst heal your entire party

and then watch as people still don’t take healers

:)

I found it kind of tragic that when I started playing league you had the exact same kind of boring topics on their boards as well whining about build diversity.

What people don’t understand is that there will always be a smaller number of optimal paths, but that a lot of other options are viable and you can beat content with it. For example, you can build full damage on tank champions even though they have huge base stats and don’t need it and will probably explode since you need to dive in fights and soak damage – but it’s still possible if your team can follow up or you have good enough positioning and reflexes.

Now coming to Guild Wars 2, you have your standard builds maximising support and damage featuring traits that consist of damage modifiers, increased offensive boon uptime (or depending on the class) or increased defensive boon uptime. These utilise stat combinations like berserker or assassin, and for solo content sinister is a very strong option on a number of classes too.

But just like here, in league you have people complaining about metas. You have people whining that there’s no point playing gragas mid when you’ve got powerhouses like lissandra or kassadin. well yeah, they’re strong (uh….. RIP kassadin next patch) – but that’s more because they counter a lot of the meta and they’re flex-picks that can’t be counterpicked either because they can just go in to a different lane and perform exactly the same. whereas if someone were to pick say, a katarina you know 100% they will be in the mid-lane and you can pick your mid laner accordingly since she’s a lot easier to counter pick. and that’s simply because some options are better than others. this is a reality in video games, and people need to understand that while all options are viable there will always be a select few that are optimal.

J Eberle.9312:

Wait what. Were you using a vpn? Is that their reason?

Edit: Ah just read your link. I’m using WTFast too

get banned and then play league with me

<3

How is invalidating stat combinations “small steps in the right direction”?

The condition cap blanking condition builds is just as bad as uncrittable bosses blanking direct damage builds.

But because direct damage is the GW2 boogeyman apparently that’s “the right direction”.

and why, exactly, do they “need” to add a tank role for a game specifically stated to not be featuring the trinity?

people like to speak of “needs” and “problems”, but the real question is whether these needs or problems even exist in the first place.

when i started the game i was an ah guardian using a mixture of berserker, knight and valkyrie pieces so that i could be tanky and still deal good dps

or so i thought

:D

cleric lupicus kill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3JM-X3M5Ks

meta lupicus kill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXTd9YfMJlw

but guys

gear “plays a big roll in how much damage youll do”

and “you’re not gonna run your typical 6/5/0/0/3 warrior build with magis gear and expect to deal anywhere near the same damage”

lol

how does someone disliking you make them elitist?

like, this legitimately has to be a troll, no way can someone hurting your feelings mean that they’re an elitist

Enko.6123:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Iris Ng.9845:

No social life unless GWAMM x5…

guild leader of LOD had/has 11 GWAMM, iirc

Eris hasn’t been guild leader of LOD since March 2014.

take a look at what you just quoted

take a look at

“had”

???

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Dub.1273:

And since all that is barely ever met, plus the fact that most fights don’t take very long it just happens that elementalists deal up to twice the damage of other professions.

Guess I’ll never understand why all those theoretical numbers are so beloved when they have pretty much no relation to what’s really happening.

yea its pretty obvious that the math is wrong because it doesnt show that warrior is top dps forever and always

warrior best

idk

i mean, bear in mind this is with no math behind it at all

but if a fight doesn’t take long and a warrior could do a burst with axe 2+4+5 and gs 2+3+5 and the boss dies soon after, wouldn’t that then be better than taking say, an engi who only gets a quarter of the way through their piano rotation before a boss dies?

i don’t mind accepting theoretical damage calculations but there is an absolute point where I flat out ignore it when it’s completely impractical to execute, like how a staff ele can just solo a boss standing at range unloading all of their damage while like, a thief is having to jump through hoops to even try to do damage.

hybrid.5027:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mesmer_-_The_Mantra_Way

This is why.

Somehow this became a “good” build for the dungeon community. I don’t know how to downvote this on that site but it needs to be removed ASAP.

where is the downvote button

this build needs to be downvoted in to extinction

You want people to follow what you say, so you make guides, cool
if people dont follow what you say, they are the enemy, and are objectively stupid.

No, it’s not that at all. We don’t like being demonised by people despite all of the effort and help we put in to bettering the community.

However, if people don’t want to follow our guides … that’s cool. That’s their choice. The problem is with people on both sides insulting each other with people throwing around the “elitist” boogeyman to describe anyone who -god forbid- actually wants to impose a standard on their LFG groups and then you have people on the other side condescendingly referring to other players as “play how you wants” or “casuals” – but the fact of the matter is, these two terms are simply thrown around in response to people being sick of the “community” demonising them and making out that dungeon runners are the literal scum of the earth and need to be deleted from the game.

you think im trolling when i say people outside of the dungeon community think that dungeons are filled with drama and control freaks? look at the op, thats what people really think

And the whole reason people think that is because of the drama queens rampant on this forum who either tell exaggerated stories, or true stories with certain details purposely omitted where they were kicked from groups they shouldn’t have even been a part of full stop.

Rasimir.6239:

Well, I learned something new about my preferences yesterday: I realized that I actually prefer to run dungeons with mediocre players that are nice and friendly, instead of with good players that don’t communicate at all and treat you like an npc.

Not a single word in chat all through the run, and not so much as a “bye” before kicking me out of the group once the run was finished … never thought I’d be upset by that so much, but I guess I play this game to play with people. If I wanted no communication I could just as well go back to single player games …

yeah, pretty much my own opinion

i’ve got screenshots of like the most legendary teaching run I ever did (like … a lot of screenshots) and it was legit like the best dungeon runs I have ever done even though the party was pretty bad (on a mechanical level, obviously the instance knowledge would be bad since they were new) and needed massive carrying, but speeding through things with ease with no communication since everyone knows what to do just bores me to tears.

J Eberle.9312:

Nike is head illuminati.
I am the grandmaster mind brain of the vocal and toxic minority.
Colesy is lady mahariel.
Lindbur is an elitist jaguar.

this woman gets it

also hi guys just came off week suspension

:)

don’t really care about more rewards if there aren’t actual new fractals themselves.

GW2 could literally throw free legendaries at me as rewards and I wouldn’t even play it, I literally just want something new to play, and hopefully the expansion will do that for instanced content lovers.

but my expectations are basically zero, so I’m not leaving myself any room to be disappointed.

If I join a nondescript group, and they say “berserker gear” after the first boss (assuming that’s when they notice dps is lacking) and I say “I don’t have any.” or “I am not wearing it because i won’t survive” and do not switch, and they don’t kick me, and we CONTINUEthe dungeon only to be kicked at the last boss as I worked with them to get there, you’re saying that’s justified? That’s not an unjust kicking?
Seriously colesy, what happened to you?

I am saying the kick was justified but the actual timing of it just made it a scumbag move.

But the act itself – you as party leader kicking someone who doesn’t comply with your group’s wishes is perfectly acceptable.

To reiterate – kicking someone for not meeting your requirement is absolutely fine, waiting until the end of the instance to kick them is wrong. This is precisely what I am arguing about, I can understand people being up in arms about someone waiting until the end of the instance to kick you, but the fact that the OP flagrantly disregarded the request of the party leader is what makes it hard for me to feel sympathy for them. It’s like me teaching a dungeon path and some zergburger el33tist comes along demanding speed run, i’ll boot them without a second thought because they don’t meet my requirement (newbies only) and zero ****s will be given. If I wanted to run a story dungeon on LFG and someone was watching the cutscenes after I told them not to, I’d boot them as well.

I just wouldn’t wait until the end of the instance.

What the heck is a party leader anymore? They don’t exist.

the person who makes the group. they don’t exist in a practical sense like before where they held the instance, but I’d say that for all intents and purposes, the person who hosts an lfg would be considered the “leader”.

Other MEMBER said not to.
The one other watching says “we haven’t done this
so we would like to.”

Other MEMBER stays silent. Doesn’t bring it up again

Other member (s) kick them at the end to deny them their owed REWARDS.

No. that isn’t okay. We are allowed to disagree with the person who posted the Lfg.

so if the person who posted the lfg was asking for berserker gear you’re saying it would be okay to say “nah, I don’t like wearing that” and just staying in the group? i’m trying to apply this heavily used analogy to this situation because they just look identical to me because one results in just condescendingly being told to form your own group and this one involves bucket-loads of sympathy.

Mounds upon mounds of sympathy… Are you soulless? Have you ever been unjustly kicked after working hard? Have you ever had your work lost because of party mechanics being stupid?
I remember the time you were by the terrible infamous griefer. I was there with sympathy for you too, because it is all screwed up and disgusting.

unjustly? the OP was literally outright told WE DON’T WANT TO WATCH THE CUTSCENES. that in itself is their justification for the kick, it didn’t just happen for no reason. now obviously the timing was questionable and it seems to me as more of a “**** you for not listening to us, we’ll just boot you at the end because lol”, but this and the popular usual examples of lfg abuse seem to just all be identical. you basically have someone who joins a group, who doesn’t meet the criteria of the group complaining that they got kicked. the criteria in the most popular case is “not using berserker gear”. the criteria in this case is “skip the cutscenes”.

i’m not going to deny that booting at the end is a scumbag move, it is. but I’m not seeing the fault in simply booting someone for not respecting your wishes.

—

Then why wasn’t he kicked after he watched the second cut scene?
Waiting till the end is a fully kitten move, no getting around that. Though sure, morals are subjective, but are you saying you agree with the idea of wasting someones 15 mins because they wasted your 1? Doesn’t seem right to me…

well obviously he wasn’t kicked because the leaders wanted to just scumbag the OP and boot him at the end as a “ha, got you” kind of thing, which is wrong, yeah. i’m just trying to say that flagrantly disregarding the request of the party leaders and then complaining on the forums just blows my mind and I can’t comprehend why people are defending it.

OP gets told to skip videos by group, refuses to, gets mad when kicked out of group.

Stop infringing on the fun of others and make your own “watching all cutscenes” group, they were perfectly entitled to kick you. The fact that they waited to the end just means that you had plenty of chances to listen to what they said but purposely chose to ignore them.

Dub.1273:

Iris Ng.9845:

The work of your described police is precisely what a Game Master does in game.

More like what game masters would be supposed to do. But I have not seen a single perma ban on griefers yet. Not even on heitred.
If a banned person doesn’t view his ban as justified or claims he didn’t do the action, anet could simply look in the log for the ban of that person and check if a video is embedded. Or just make it so that videos must be embedded for a ban to be given. In the rather unlikely (at least more unlikely than getting griefed now) of an unjustified ban given, anet would have to look over it.

This obviously means some work for them and therefore nothing is going to happen, but it is much less work than actively handling griefers themselves.

i’m (rightfully) frustrated about a certain lfg hijacker ruining parties for people so let’s suggest something which is beyond impractical as an idea to anet

like

i don’t like the guy either but i literally can not comprehend how this would even work in practice.

it’s almost as if people have different opinions

phalanx warrior is literally no different to any other warrior build, you’re rotating between both weapon sets for a rotation whether you’re playing PS or solo builds so I’m not seeing how doing that and then keeping your party topped up on 20+ might at all times is “incredibly boring”.

sure, you do less damage, but warrior isn’t a damage class anyway.

Cyvien.8049:

Everyone should run PVE meta (Zerker) and start dealing some serious damage.

no, everyone does not need to run meta.

people need to stop imposing their way of play on to others. this applies to meta players trying to force people to run their builds and to non-meta players demanding content and stats to be built around them and to “nerf the meta”.

but human nature, like, exists so this will never be resolved. you’ll have fools on both sides, and we’ll have another million “fix the meta” threads when people can’t even decide if it even is a problem in the first place.

Sublimatio.6981:

Lindbur.2537:

Aren’t you supposed to be dead?

your joke literally wynne the internet

oh i get it

shame wynne was one of the least likeable characters

yup, got bored of smooth runs started pug lyfing it a lot more

oh, it’s that guy. the one who just deflects posts by saying “you don’t understand”.

i’ll pass over to the next masochist who wants to “debate” this.

and why does it need to work like PvP? because you said so?

you’re not answering my points because I dumped all of your points in to the ground.

1. Monsters need to have their HEALTH Pools dramatically reduced, then given a Dodge/Evasion stat that lets them mitigate damage from some player attacks. They don’t necessarily need to move around a lot and visually evade attacks.

have you ever fought the archers in CM who just randomly start evading? literally the most annoying mobs in the game. they’re standing there auto attacking and evading everything.

2. Precision should be tweaked to affect not just critical-hit rates but also to-hit rates for all attacks. This would need to be carefully tuned, but ideally would make Precision as a standalone attribute more competitive with Power (granting viability to Assassin’s stats, for example) and also grant it some synergy with condition damage.

assassin’s stats are already viable and feature in some meta builds.

3. Monster attacks, in general, should receive a significant increase in frequency with a reduction to the amount of damage per hit. Players should have neither the desire nor the ability to try dodge all incoming attacks. Active dodging should mostly be reserved for the occasional large, telegraphed attacks coming from various monsters. Standard defense should be more evenly split between active dodging and passive damage absorption.

or you get a hammer guardian for permanent -33% incoming damage. crisis averted, no need to use PVT.

4. Lastly, the concept of the soft trinity needs to be refined and iterated. Support builds need to be made more viable by building greater synergy between boon stacking and healing.

support =/= healing

and support builds are the meta anyway.

and just to clarify, support does not equal defensive stats, it equals a build which aids the team either offensively, defensively or both. the meta builds are on the whole, support builds designed around maximising the efficiency of the party.

also, let’s make it so stacking healing power lets you 100% burst heal your entire party with zero cooldown. we don’t need that healing so we won’t use it.

Guardians come somewhat close to achieving decent support builds, but not quite, and no other profession really does. Offensive builds should not typically specialize in boons. In other words – the soft trinity should really be a.) offense (damage and/or control), defense (healing and/or boons), and c.) tanking, with viability to hybridization, in particular with tanks (i.e. an offensive tank focused on damage and control, or a defensive tank focused on healing and boons).

offensive builds should not specialise in boons? why? because you said so? well here’s what I say. they should be able to. why? because I said so.

the first two pieces of the soft trinity already exist, they’re just not restricted by builds or classes, and the third part exists to an extent in fractals where a guardian can maintain a block rotation and dump some knights gear on against certain bosses to mitigate the damage dealt to the party since the boss will be facing the guardian.

tl;dr can we stop making these threads

i don’t think the people in this thread understand how tanky PVT/nomad actually is so as opposed to berserker

like i’m pretty sure you can even stack enough defensive stats to the point that against the crusher in arah p3 you can actually eat one of his swings as long as you have a block up for the other half of it. a full sentinel necro I think can even eat a maximum range kill shot in arah p2 as well which will smack you for like 30k in berserker gear.

…people would still use glass gear?

you realise if people need an extra dodge they just stick on an energy sigil or trait for vigour, right?

and what is the rationale behind making a stat which makes you not have to dodge as much … allow you to dodge more?

i guess i won’t have to grind so much RL money for my precursors now

Carighan.6758:

Honestly, I feel non-Berserker builds are exactly as rewarding as you expect them to be. That is, if I bring my heal-bombs engineer somewhere the raw tankiness of me and people around me is astonishing. Far in excess of what the best zerker-setup could ever possibly hope for.

Now the problem:
Nothing in dungeons (open-world PvE is actually very much different in more recent releases) remotely promotes using non-zerker setups because damage is supposed to be avoided, not survived, and enemies are supposed to be killed fast enough.

That is the root issue.
Newer LS releases kinda do this better. The mobs are varied and have rather specific special effects which reward highly focused ability / gear / trait setups.

The key word here is the “newer” LS releases.

LS releases are newer. Dungeons are not. Every single time ANet release new content, people hail the “end of the berserker meta” when the fact of the matter is just that most people simply aren’t good at the game and while they can faceroll ancient dungeon content, when presented with a new challenge they just get blasted to pieces and then stick on their defensive armour since they don’t want to or haven’t bothered to learn the choreographs.

For example, people always complain about terragriffs (or w/e it’s spelled) being too hard and then some guy makes a video where he just brain afk kills one on his thief with literally zero effort involved in a full glass setup.

So here’s how human nature works in video games.

> Player meets content
> Player gets face kicked in
> Player builds defensively and gradually gets through content
> If player faces this content again they now know what to do
> Builds more offensively since they know which hits to mitigate and how to do so
> Goes as glassy as possible
> ???
> profit

this applies to GW2, this applies to literally every single game ever. I played DA:Origins on normal years ago and it was a hell of an experience (mind you it was one of my first RPGs and I was just garbage anyway), but fast forward in to the future and I now know if I wanted to I could go full glass triple mage party and just explode mobs and bosses with triple fireballs and storm of the century which just decimate everything, and chain cones of cold on bosses since for some reason they’re CC-immune except for that one skill.

I played GW2 on a knights/valk/zerk AH guardian “back in the day” so that I could “be tanky and do decent DPS” and then I grew a pair, learnt how to dodge and just went full damage because I could.

the fact that people want to stop human nature and want builds with the least amount of passive defense to be more on par with builds that stack passive defense kind of just blows my mind. do you know a game where something like this exists? league of legends. there are bruiser champions that can basically just stack tank items and do shed loads of damage because they either have high base damage stats or they deal percentage hp total damage. guess which ones people hate fighting against? yeah, those ones.

so you block the big choreographed one, and then just double dodge (or if extra dodge needed, energy sigil so you can triple dodge) through the flurry of damage?

A player be able to complete a content designed for 5 is a blatant proof that the mechanics need some serious rework.

Not really. Tera and WoW have soloable instances. There are a lot of single player games with parties where you can choose to go without one and solo the game too. Things being soloable just demonstrates that when a player reaches a certain skill level that the game won’t just outright deny them the opportunity to put their skills to the test by things like player gating (stand on 4 switches, oh I guess you can’t solo now hurrrrrrrr).

A game will pretty much never be balanced around soloing if it involves group combat, but if it is possible, that is always nice. The Dragon Age games are all balanced around using a party but I think all three of them are soloable.

If you want to support the team as a healer or go full meat shield as a tank there is no viable option to do so. It is always better to run zerk or just cheese the mechanics.

I can’t play my assassin in league of legends as a support, should I therefore go on their boards and complain about this?

why do you think healers or tanks being viable in a non-trinity game about active defense is a good thing? doesn’t that make the whole active defense bit redundant?

how is toughness a supportive stat? how is increasing your own survivability while not increasing that of your party supportive? isn’t dealing more damage to kill a mob quicker before you and your party run out of active defensive more supportive?

more players than a capped out map? wat?

more players doesn’t even mean harder content, it just means content that presents an organisational challenge. lower man content challenges both organisation and individual skill since the contribution of each person matters more (think for example if a guardian dies on the imbued shaman, that’s a pretty big hit).

Its basically for hard core guilds/elitists

this word. constantly popping up and ruining threads. can we be a little more creative and a bit less offensive towards “players who make an effort to play competently” please?

Spoj The Second.7680:

Just had a dreadful thought.

What if the pax announcement has nothing to do with an expansion. What if it is an announcement to destroy those berserker cheaters and to redesign the game into a classic trinity game.

then i’ll finally have a reason to uninstall the GW2 client

i’m only keeping it on my computer because it would take a century to reinstall if ANet decide to do anything good with their game

GW2 is the only game I’ve seen where critical chance can approach 100%

every champion in league of legends can hit ~90%, one champion has double critical chance so he can reach cap with a lot less investment in to his build

GW2 is the only game I’ve seen where critical damage exceeds 200% of base damage

critical strikes in league do 200% damage unless you buy an item which boosts it to 250% base

GW2 is the only game I’ve seen where a temporary damage buff (Might, in this case) could/can approach the base damage of a max level character (Note: that’s the buff benefit by itself, not factoring in the synergistic benefits of critical chance/damage)

i’m pretty sure like every single game ever has builds where you can wildly exceed the base damage of a character with buffs

in league you can like double, triple, quadruple (etc.) your damage stats through damage buffs by items. baron buff used to give 40 attack damage/40 ability power which is like half of your base attack damage and I can’t remember how much the ability power is because I forgot lol

GW2 is the only game I’ve seen where the trade-off for maximizing damage still leaves players with substantial defensive options — if they’re good enough to use them

again, in league you can 100-0 burst people in like half a second and then just invuln/teleport/stealth – and like in guild wars 2 they’re all active defense mechanisms where it’s reliant on the skill of the players.

maybe you just need to play some more games

Chobiko.9182:

Chobiko.9182:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

-snip-

how the hell does confusion application require you to change build? you literally just stick a condition removal utility on and remove a DPS one.

Isn’t that, by definition, changing the build though? Sure it’s easy, but I never said it would require big changes either. Just that it would require that change.

@other person. Yes, I forgot Ele condi cleanse. Still most metabuilds 6/10 does not have partywide condi cleanse.

Not really.

The build is the traits, weapons, sigils, runes and stat combinations used.

The utilities are simply either how comfortable you are in mitigating damage (so a more confident player will run more damage-centric utilities while someone who feels their chance of error is too high might go for more safer utilities) or to fit the needs of the people you are around (so for example, a solo warrior will go fgj, banner, fury sig, a group warrior will go disc banner, str banner and fgj or something).

If enemy attack speed was doubled, but their damage was halved, we would see many more diverse builds out there. Enemy AI would feel more responsive and less clunky.

No we wouldn’t. Dredge fractal is and was full of mobs with fast attacks but you can just roll in to it with your standard glass cannon builds.

sounds like PvE condition mesmer has a nice buff, and the time warp CD change will be relevant if there are previous dungeon records where the cooldown wasn’t up in time.