Guild Wars 2

Seras.5702:

maxinion.8396:

Seras.5702:

Would a Sw/F + Staff Phantasm build work in dungeons, if staff is only used to maintain 3x iWizards? Using Sw/F primary to attack in melee and keep up reflects, staff iWizards + SoE could output some serious damage.

Something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW8dnsISVaWkGuqB1aGR1QOdxhHJdgERKVHA-TRRDgAJKB7V+9q+DouBAzfAA-e ??

I feel like you should use staff 3, switch to sword, and stick with sword for the rest of the battle unless you explicitly need to dis-engage. Once you move to staff, you’re stuck with it for 9 seconds, and you’ll be doing very little damage during that time. Unless you’d be kiting anyway to run away/heal, in which case sword is doing no damage, I think you’re better off with just the auto-attack on sword.

So start with staff, iWarlock > Sig of Ether > iWarlock > weapon swap > 1111111 would work nicely. What about using Runes of the Warrior for weapon swap reduction?

That would be a very nice option for using staff effectively in PvE, I think. Put out the swordsman or warden when you swap to sword, and you’ll be in great shape for damage (as far as mesmers go, anyway).

Rune of the warrior is probably not worth it. The vitality is… not very good for PvE. I think you’re better off taking the 2 second hit if you’re forced back to staff, but hopefully your warlocks stay up and you don’t have to swap and you’re fine for the whole battle.

OnyxMemory.9401:

I know in CoF as a mesmer you have a higher responsibility on the utility skills you use so it seems like the 6/6/0/0/2 build I’ve been running wont be as good since I cant have my mantras up. What would you recommend for that? 2/4/0/5/3? I’ll pick up an exotic focus as well.

In CoF you need Feedback for the boss, portal for the boulder skip, and focus pull for the first fight at the turrets and the slavedriver. None of these preclude using 6/6/0/0/2— you just have to swap blink and portal in for the boulders.

But then again, there’s nothing really wrong with the 2/4/0/4/4 and 2/4/0/5/3 builds for this as well. You don’t necessarily need reflecting wardens, but it’s not a huge waste either.

Leo Paul.1659:

maxinion.8396:

Leo Paul.1659:

maxinion.8396:

I’ll add some more details later, but I’d avoid the gear choices that Brazil lays out, since I feel that Assassin’s pigeon-holes you a bit too much (and I disagree with his 6/2 build, which is the main reason he recommends assassin). Berserker is still fine as long as have you have a minimum of 4 points in dueling.

If you want the best, cheap DPS rune: get Ranger. 1.25 gp on the TP right now, and these are almost as good (or better than??) even the old reliables like Scholar. The 7% damage works with phantasms and illusions now, and you’ll almost always have at least one of those up.

Does rune of the ranger work with illusions? If it does I’m totally switching to it from Rune of the Pack

Yes, it works with illusions.

Is it perhaps a bug? Or intentional? The wiki seems to be outdated because it excludes illusions from proc’ing the 6th bonus.

Wiki is outdated, since it just changed with this patch.

Is it a bug? Maybe. Lots of things seem to be proc’ing the bonus, even minis supposedly. Will it be fixed/changed? Perhaps unlikely, given how long ranger runes were broken previously.

Anyway, they’re pretty cheap, so I feel like it’s a reasonable bet for now, and not a huge loss if they get “fixed.”

Veckna.9621:

maxinion.8396:

lol, stacking in a corner is the best way to fight every fight in this dungeon (except maybe spark and slick)

Stack at foreman and his AoE & Whirl will wipe your group; stack at Clockheart and good luck blowing up holograms on it to disable it’s shield. Must I go on?

Well, somehow I 3 man’ed this dungeon (two bearbow noobies as the other members) by stacking on these fights (albeit with a little bit of movement, not a super hard stack), so maybe it’s just a matter of knowing what you’re doing.

Veckna.9621:

Charak.9761:

This is why the new TA dungeon has since been abandon because you couldn’t bypass the waste of time mobs between bosses.

It’s also why there hasn’t been any new dungeons and probably won’t see anymore in the foreseeable future.

Not all content has to be a farmable resource, TA aetherpath is the most entertaining dungeon to do in this game right now. And since last October all those hunting for the Dungeon Master title will need to get through it, I pity the people “raised” on zerk meta for their minds will be shattered when the reality that stacking in a corner won’t help them in there.
I hope ArenaNet pushes out more dungeons like that, something you can gather your mates for when you’re looking for that adrenaline rush most other dungeons fail to provide you.

lol, stacking in a corner is the best way to fight every fight in this dungeon (except maybe spark and slick)

Seras.5702:

Would a Sw/F + Staff Phantasm build work in dungeons, if staff is only used to maintain 3x iWizards? Using Sw/F primary to attack in melee and keep up reflects, staff iWizards + SoE could output some serious damage.

Something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW8dnsISVaWkGuqB1aGR1QOdxhHJdgERKVHA-TRRDgAJKB7V+9q+DouBAzfAA-e ??

I feel like you should use staff 3, switch to sword, and stick with sword for the rest of the battle unless you explicitly need to dis-engage. Once you move to staff, you’re stuck with it for 9 seconds, and you’ll be doing very little damage during that time. Unless you’d be kiting anyway to run away/heal, in which case sword is doing no damage, I think you’re better off with just the auto-attack on sword.

Jerem, any idea how much worse full berserker + perception stacks is? Is this 5%? 10%?

Thanks, and sorry if you wrote this already above!

Leo Paul.1659:

maxinion.8396:

I’ll add some more details later, but I’d avoid the gear choices that Brazil lays out, since I feel that Assassin’s pigeon-holes you a bit too much (and I disagree with his 6/2 build, which is the main reason he recommends assassin). Berserker is still fine as long as have you have a minimum of 4 points in dueling.

If you want the best, cheap DPS rune: get Ranger. 1.25 gp on the TP right now, and these are almost as good (or better than??) even the old reliables like Scholar. The 7% damage works with phantasms and illusions now, and you’ll almost always have at least one of those up.

Does rune of the ranger work with illusions? If it does I’m totally switching to it from Rune of the Pack

Yes, it works with illusions.

I’ve been advocating 6/4/0/4/0 for the general/ max reflect build. It’s similar enough to the 6/6/0/0/2 that it’s easy to just swap traits quickly and move on.

I think I also prefer 2/4/0/4/4 or 2/4/0/5/3 over the 2/3 build. Losing 100 precision (50 from the point and 50 from Blade Training) is a big hit— 5% crit chance for you and your phantasms, and 50 ferocity to boot. The 7% overall DPS from PH/PS is less worth it, but this is probably a matter of taste in the end.

I’ll also point out that Ranger Runes are super viable as a cheap alternative to scholar, which can help even 2/3 builds reach higher crit chance.

My hands died a little typing this out, so you can read: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PvE-Post-Patch-What-s-What/first#post3938762 for some thoughts on fractal builds. More or less anything I wrote about dungeons applies to fractals, except that Mesmers are actually better there because fights last longer and reflections are more critical.

The two stuns (one signet, pistol 5) and the immobilize (sword 3) make me so happy. It feels almost like hambow, but with less telegraphed and more precise options. Tons of fun.

(third post, jesus i write too much. also, curse you flood control.)

I also haven’t gotten the hang of using mantras yet. For them to be “readied”, that means you have charges on them right? So for EM, you want to actually not use the mantras unless absolutely necessary? I always forget to use them.

Right, you want to “charge” the mantra to get them “readied” so they provide the bonus. In an ideal world, in a short fight, you’d make sure to leave 1 charge on all your mantras at least so you don’t lose the bonus. In practice, oftentimes you need that extra stun break, heal, or condition cleanse, so don’t feel bad about using it. Losing 4% DPS is better than dying, and depending on the fight, you might get an opportunity to recharge it during downtime anyway.

I’ll probably go with one of those 2/4 or 2/3 builds. If I’m not stacking mantras, then what util skills should I focus on. Feedback seems to be something you should always have, as well as TW. Is it better to be using SotE over EF with this kind of phantasm build? I know blink is popular, and that’s another skill I have yet to master. Personally, I love decoy. Anything else worth my time? Finally, with respect to shattering. I know this is a phant build, so you don’t want to shatter them. But what about when your target is almost dead? Surely if you think the shatter will be a deathblow, it’s a good idea to get in that extra AoE damage since the phants are going to die on target death, right?

2/4 is very, very nice in my opinion, so it’s absolutely a great place to start.

Feedback should be ready, except in fights you don’t need reflections.

For the rest, I’ll just link TheKillerAngel’s guide here as the first post is really super great here.

Some other minor comments: blink is super useful for positioning in some fights, and for runs. If you haven’t rebound your 6-0 keys to something reachable with your left hand or onto your mouse, do that— you’ll find it’s so much easier to blink with a quick press of “q” than it is to reach to the keyboard and then back to the mouse. Decoy is great for running, but doesn’t help DPS or survivability during fights very much, so I wouldn’t keep it in most situations.

Thanks SO SO SO much for your posts and support. Much love to the mesmer forum!

No problem, you’ve been asking great questions. Enjoy~

EDIT: Forgot to answer the question about shattering. Feel free to use Mind Wrack to shatter when the mobs are almost dead, absolutely. That’s a great use of them. You can also use the F4 ability if you need a real PANIC button— one second of invuln per illusion can save your life in some situations. Better to lose your phants and stay up, than go down and die and lose your phants anyway.

(continuing in second post because of char limits)

Deathreign (and Brazil in his 6/2 build) drop Blade Training, yes (Phantasmal Fury is too good to drop, always take it). What this does is lower your crit chance and your cooldowns on sword. The lower crit chance can be made up in other ways (this is why Brazil focuses on Assassin’s gear so much). The cooldowns aren’t ~necessary,~ since most of your damage comes from the auto-attack and if you have the Signet Heal you can pump out 3 phantasms instantly anyway. Personally, I prefer builds that keep Blade Training because the shorter cooldown on Blurred Frenzy and Illusionary Riposte is super helpful in defense (more on this shortly).

If you don’t need reflects and pulls, use sword/sword and sword/pistol, yup. However, one of your main responsibilities as a mesmer in a dungeon is to pull with focus 4 to clump up enemies on walls. The warden also does AoE damage, so he’s helpful in trash. I find that I switch to pistol for large bosses that aren’t going to be pulled, and which don’t have adds that you need AoE for, and which you don’t need reflects for.

Gear isn’t going to help much, since you’re always using full offensive gear. One option is to run the 2/4/x builds— these put 4 or 5 into Inspiration which raises your Vitality quite a lot, giving you about 3k more hp. This can be helpful for when you start.

The main thing to keep your damage up is to use your active defenses. You have three forms of this (outside of reflections). Your primary should be Illusionary Riposte: sword 4. When you use it, you get one block for 2 seconds, and a free clone, and a big damage. Use this when you know the boss/mob is going to hit you in a short amount of time (basically, when you see their tell go off). You completely avoid the hit, and deal large damage instead. Your next option is Blurred Frenzy, sword 2— this gives you a nice bit of damage, and a 2.5 second evade. The difference here is that you avoid ~all attacks~ for 2.5 seconds— it’s like a longer dodge— while still doing damage. Use this when lots of small hits are incoming, or one big hit is coming and your IR is on cooldown. Basically, these two are your bread and butter, and are excellent defensive skills which can deal lots of damage as well.

You’ve also got Critical Infusion, the 1 point in Dueling. This gives you vigor on crit, with an internal cooldown. It’s not as good as it used to be, but this gives you a lot of dodges. If you can’t use your active evades from the sword, you can always just dodge.

The trick with avoiding damage is to learn the boss tells, and then use these abilities whenever you see them coming. With Blade Training, the cooldown on Blurred Frenzy and Illusionary Riposte are < 10 seconds. Between this and the dodges, you always have an option to avoid damage— the question is just about your reflexes and ability to recognize what’s coming. This is hard and takes practice, but eventually you’ll be able to do it no problem.

sirrealist.1360:

maxinion.8396:

As a build at this stage, since you won’t be doing max DPS anyway because of the gear,
Hope all this helps~

Wow, you guys are awesome! This is a great thread, I really really appreciate advice and guidance. There really is a lot yet to explore. I have a few questions:

In your link to the 6/6/0/0/2 build, the dom master trait isn’t selected. What should it be?

Just because I feel all of them are pretty terrible, and it doesn’t matter. Nike/Brazil recommend VI, Signet Mastery, because they like the Signet Heal, and this is a pretty good idea. I prefer the Mantra Heal for this build, so VI doesn’t benefit me, and the others don’t help at all. Do IV and shatter your phantasms just as they’re about to die, or V and just cripple enemies when your clones get popped, I guess? This is why the move of Empowering Mantras was so annoying… there’s few good traits that synergize with the traditional Phantasm build.

Is this the 2/4/0/5/3 build?

Yup, this is correct. You can move the 5th point in Inspiration to a 4th point in Illusions and grab X as well for the 2/4/0/4/4 build. User “frifox” has some nice posts on the differences between these builds on the front page… search for his posts in the forum and you’ll find them.

Is it at all worth while to play with PI, CC and/or RM in the Inspiration line if you don’t need reflect? Someone posted a build where you have RM and spam MoP for group heal support.

Sometimes, yes. Honestly if you don’t need reflects, you’re better off re-traiting to 6/6 and going full DPS. Before re-traiting could happen in dungeons, if I was doing fights without reflects, I would often slot Mender’s Purity and Restorative Mantras. Mender’s Purity can be helpful with the Mantra Heal, since it gives you more rapid condition cleanse. Restorative Mantras I would take only in situations where there was nothing else that helped. It’s… not a big heal, and healing in the game is not particularly useful (since hits are generally large and telegraphed and able to be dodged). You’re almost always better off doing DPS (attacking and summoning phantasms) than charging mantras for heals. Other classes (eles with water fields, guardians, etc.) have better heals if this is really necessary. But anyway, if there are long fights where you don’t need reflects and you’re recharging mantras (healing and condition cleanse, for example), it might be helpful. The 10% movement trait I don’t find helpful, because most of the time you’re not moving much inside of battles and you’ll only have the bonus inside of battles. Longer lasting phantasms can be helpful, but they still die whenever a boss sneezes at them, so it’s not hugely helpful IMO.

Also, for the build DeathReign mentions, I assume he’s dropping FF or BT (if not using sword) for PH (now that it works)? Is PH > FF? I’m trying to get used to using sword (I’ve been playing GS/Staff and really love it), so I assume I should keep BT. Considering how broken iWarden is, if I don’t need reflect then maybe use Sw/Sw and Sw/pistol? Downside to this I assume is that if you use a Sw/Sw main-hand skill, it doesn’t come off CD if you swap to Sw/pistol (and vice versa). Another issue is, how do you keep your AA damage up when you only have sword main-hand? I find that I’m still a bit squishy to be doing melee all the time, and only having sword means you’re always in the thick of it. Does that change when you gear up?

You don’t really need to kite Baelfire. If everyone DPS’s, the rock dies faster. That’s the “right” way to do the final fight.

But kicking even if people do it “wrong” is still stupid. If they warned you to just get back inside and DPS, though…

As has been said, it’s a risk you run with pugs unless you start the instance. One lost path isn’t a huge deal, you won’t remember it in a few days/weeks anyway.

I’ve been using this build for a while now. Insanely fun, and I’m having a great time with it. I use Krait runes to get more damage out of the duelist, but I"ll look into your rune choices as well. I also use energy sigils on at least one weapon to get more dodges for Deceptive Evasion, but that’s a minor point.

Nice build!

Sanderinoa.8065:

maxinion.8396:

Sanderinoa.8065:

maxinion.8396:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf-PP2VBBBI

Here’s a beautiful example of a full solo with commentary and explanation. They do exist, but there’s a lot of bads that exploit and sell runs as well.

Needs so many updates I don’t have time for x_x and kitten it notrigger,I was told waves now spawn infinitely so killing doesn’t work xD screw everyone giving me false info

I’ve only seen 3.5ish waves as well… but I could have missed something?

And it’s still a great guide even if some things are different now!

Im updating it as we speak, I was planning on doing something with belka by killing the waves, but someone told me they changed it so that waves were infinite >_> didnt bother checking..

Thank you!!! Super excited to see this, as it will motivate me to try solo’ing some more.

Sanderinoa.8065:

maxinion.8396:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf-PP2VBBBI

Here’s a beautiful example of a full solo with commentary and explanation. They do exist, but there’s a lot of bads that exploit and sell runs as well.

Needs so many updates I don’t have time for x_x and kitten it notrigger,I was told waves now spawn infinitely so killing doesn’t work xD screw everyone giving me false info

I’ve only seen 3.5ish waves as well… but I could have missed something?

And it’s still a great guide even if some things are different now!

Berserker is always the “safe” option. It’s going to be powerful and reliable in PvE no matter what.

Brazil likes Assassin’s because you don’t need to stack Perception and can still get close to 100% crit chance on a 6/2 build. I personally have seen no one else recommend the 6/2 (variations like 6/4 and 2/4 are more common), so you always have 100 more precision than Brazil. Add in precision food + spotter + banner of discipline + fury, and you’re at close to 100% crit chance with just berserker. Switch to something like ranger runes or Perception stacking and you can get to 100% without food or spotter as well.

In situations where you can’t easily get fury + spotter + banner (solos mostly), Assassin’s is unarguably better. In other situations, I’m not convinced.

glenndevis.8327:

I kinda like the idea oh the strength runes + sigil of battle/strength
I also like Scholar runes but my problem would be having low crit chance.

With ruby orbs without any food or buff i have base 54% crit chance. with food it’s 64% wich means my phantasms have 84% with fury.

I think without the precision from the ruby orbs my crit would only be around 44%, 54% with food making my phantasms only have 74% crit chance… Which I find kinda lacking.

Is it still worth to go for strength/scholar runes and is 74% still a good crit chance or should I go for something that gives prec?

Perception stacking gives 250 more prec, and you can generally assume Banner of Discipline, which is another 150 or so. This gives you another 20%, taking you to 104%, which is about right (though you could use a bit worse food if you want or swap that to something else).

I’ll need builds that take into account the fact that I don’t have any top-tier runs/sigils/gear. I’ll need to know gear I can buy or grind for fairly quickly. I only have 18g, so saying all zerk doesn’t really work for me. However, saying “buy X stuff it’s cheap” and then saying “but grind to this” is helpful.

Before you start running dungeons at 80, I’d invest in all Rare Berserker gear for all your slots (weapons, armor, rings, trinkets, amulet). Get a Fiber Splice (PTV, but waaay cheaper than anything zerker) for your backpiece. For runes at this point, Ruby Orbs are probably your good, cheap bet— drop those in everything (armor and trinkets). For sigils, go for Major Sigil of Force and Major Sigil of Accuracy, maybe? Those should be cheap too.

As a build at this stage, since you won’t be doing max DPS anyway because of the gear, so something like 2/4/0/5/3 might be easier to play and teach you the right things as well.

Once you get setup like this, start running CoF p1 and p2 once a day. If you’re up for a challenge, CoE will get you the right gear too, but it’s harder imo. (Be sure to watch a video of the path on youtube before you go in, if you don’t want to feel like a dead weight). Once you get a few hundred tokens, you’ll be able to buy a full exotic berserker set, and afford the runes/sigils to equip them properly. You’ll probably have 30 laurels, which you can use to buy an Ascended Amulet as well (only go for the berserker utility one!).

After that… you’re full equipped to do basically everything in the game (except high level fractals, which require Agony Resistance which is a whole another story). There’s full ascended to get if you really want to (5+% damage boost, but super expensive, so….). There’s pretty-princess-dressup-playtime (skin hunting). There’s challenging yourself with harder content (learning Arah, duo’ing Arah, soloi’ing Arah, doing level 50 fractals, etc.).

Hope all this helps~

That being said, I’ve never hit 80 in an MMO before. What do I do now? Do people mostly grind for gear? How does that even work? People grind for the tokens you get from beating dungeons on explore? I know I can keep doing open world, and that’s def fun, but without the reward of XP meaning anything, I know it’s going to feel empty.

What you do at 80 is up to you. WvW is there, map completion is there, boss zergs are there, Tequatl is there, etc. You have lots of options. You can try PvP, especially now that the rewards are worth getting.

What many people think of as “PvE endgame” is running dungeons. Dungeons are basically the best source of money in the game (outside of speculation and playing the TP), and they are a reliable way to pick up gear (CoF and CoE give tokens you can use to purchase full exotic Berserker gear). Fractals are another fun choice, and harder than most dungeons and therefore more interesting. All of the builds I’ve been giving you are always for dungeons, because that’s the place where builds matter most. No one cares what your build is when you run Claws of Jormag in a zerg, so using greatsword and PTV gear to be safe is perfectly fine. Since dungeons are harder, and have fewer people in them, builds matter more, and that’s why you see people arguing a lot about DPS, etc.

DeathReign’s post is very nice as well. I don’t think your 2/3 build is invalid these days, btw— it’s just another more or less valid permutation of the 2/4’s which people mention.

Ok, so let’s go (hooray for code running at work).

First, builds. Brazil’s video is actually really nice, and he points out what you want as mesmer: 100% crit chance. Because he likes the 6/2 build, he has to use Assassin’s gear to get to 100%, but this is irritating because lots of people already have zerk gear. For you, since you’re new, this might not be a problem and you can just go with his recommendation.

The actual builds most people seem to be settling on are these two: Full DPS and Full Reflect Uptime .

The first one is 6/6/0/0/2. Use sword/sword and sword/focus. The playstyle is standard phantasm: cast phant, change weapons, cast phant, melee, use active defenses, swap weapon, cast phant, repeat till boss is dead. Use 3 mantras to keep up your damage with EM as well. What’s critical here is to 1) keep up your auto-attacks (you’ve invested 6 points in Domination, so you hit like a truck, and Empowering Mantras makes that even more the case) and 2) Make sure to use Feedback at the right time. Your Feedback is killer with this build, so make the most of it. In situations where you don’t need projectile blocking from the warden or the pull/interrupt from focus 4, swap to pistol for maximum damage. Another alternative for this build is 6/5/0/0/3, where you lose some crit chance and ferocity and Harmonious Mantras (which is a nice bit of quality of life, but not necessary), and get the 3 point minor in Illusions, which significantly lowers phantasm cooldown. This can be easier to play, and some experts like Jerem have been recommending it. I should note that folks like Nike/Brazil have been recommending the Signet heal and Blurred Inscriptions for the dueling grandmaster. This is to taste, I think— the 1 s of distortion can be helpful but isn’t really necessary IMO.

The second build is 6/4/0/4/0. The playstyle is basically the same, except you’ll notice Signet of Ether (which again, some people use above as well). This lets you cast Warden, Signet, and then immediately another Warden. This guarantees 100% reflect uptime on your party, as long as you occasionally fill in small gaps with focus 4 and Feedback. In pugs this can be super helpful, as well as in some fights (like Alphard, Ghost Eater, anything in CM) which are projectile-driven. There are many more or less equally valid versions of this build… Brazil has the 6/2/0/4/2 build (which might have a little bit more damage because of the III in Illusions), others have recommended 2/4/0/5/3 or 2/4/0/4/4, etc. All of them share 4 points in Inspiration for Warden’s Feedback and Glamour Mastery and 2 points in dueling for Phantasmal Fury, and the rest is to taste. I’ll note that the 2/4* builds emphasize phantasm damage, while the 6/x builds boost both personal and phantasm damage. IMO this is preferred— you suffer less when your phantasms die when your personal DPS is higher.

Now, if you want to play super-tryhard, you switch these builds depending on the situation. Need more reflects? Go 6/4. Need absolute maximum damage? Go 6/6. If you don’t want to super-tryhard all the time, just go with the 6/4, as that is the most reliable for what mesmers are expected to do in dungeons.

More posts coming on other things.

I’ll add some more details later, but I’d avoid the gear choices that Brazil lays out, since I feel that Assassin’s pigeon-holes you a bit too much (and I disagree with his 6/2 build, which is the main reason he recommends assassin). Berserker is still fine as long as have you have a minimum of 4 points in dueling.

If you want the best, cheap DPS rune: get Ranger. 1.25 gp on the TP right now, and these are almost as good (or better than??) even the old reliables like Scholar. The 7% damage works with phantasms and illusions now, and you’ll almost always have at least one of those up.

PS You can almost always check if a run is exploited when you join the instance. Is there a waypoint at Lupi? If so, it means that at the very least they killed him, which should happen on all paths. If there’s no waypoint, they skipped him, so they exploited at least that and probably more.

Here’s a beautiful example of a full solo with commentary and explanation. They do exist, but there’s a lot of bads that exploit and sell runs as well.

sirrealist.1360:

You may want to read this thread and try the build. This build calls for rabid runes.

Will some think you’re a noob by playing staff? Yes.
Will some straight up kick you? Yes.
Should you be running staff if you’re looking to min/max, or speedrun? No.
Should you get upset if those who want min/max or speedrun kick you? No.
Can you show others that you’re a good player despite using staff? Yes.
Should you play what’s fun for you? Yes.
Should you care if playing staff means others will assume things about you and preclude you from from PvE groups? That’s your call.

I’d really recommend against this.

You can make a personal choice like “I want to use staff” and have a slightly worse build because of it. But, it’s not the end of the world— your Warlock still wrecks kitten, and sword/sword or sword/focus as a second set will provide lots more DPS. You lose a bit, but it’s not game-changing.

But then this build promotes a second “personal choice” of scepter/focus as an alternate set.

And a third “personal choice” of rabid gear, when mesmer condition damage is not particularly high (we have great condition pressure from torment and confusion, but those are very PvE focused).

Any of these single one of these choices is going to result in a sub-optimal, but not terrible, build in PvE. All three of them together makes a pretty trash build for PvE.

(Note that I personally use staff and rabid+krait in PvP— I love the setup there).

hendo.1940:

So I tested this out duo in Arah with a guildie after dub messaged me about how busted the might stacking was

0/30/0/30/10

I/V/X

VI/VIII/XIII

VI

against afk HP sponge boss (alphard) – perma 25 might
against bosses that required dodging (abomination, lupicus) – 18-22 easily maintained
against sped bosses that troll you (belka) – perma 25 until teleport
against brie i switched to 30/25 to burst down, but it’s mostly afk so probably perma 25 might

strength runes
no boon duration food
strength sigil

RIP eles

:)

Nice build! Very curious to try it out. What’s your rotation like? You’re not using fast-hands so I’m guessing you mostly stick to greatsword?

Advent Leader.1083:

Wait, the trait applies might to you as wel?

Don’t think so, but between forceful greatsword, signet of rage, and for great justice, you can maintain super high might on a warrior all by yourself. Runes of strength and sigil of strength makes it even more crazy.

Staff won’t ever be “good”, as it is very low dps with the auto attack. The phantasm is good, though. If you throw down the warlock and switch to sword/pistol, you’ll be doing reliable damage at least. Run the 6/6/0/0/2 build and trait for full damage and cooldowns. Use mantras on your bar (for the sake of empowering mantras). Use full zerker gear. Avoid staff autoattack as much as possible.

It’s signicantly worse than the meta builds, but better than anything else you can do.

How about you make your own groups with friends who think like you. Or come up with a nice description in the LFG where you say “slow going” or something.

Don’t expect people to cater to your whims. Their opinions are just as valid as yours. Make your own parties. Done.

Try the duelists, and keep them at max range. You really just have to deal with it and keep resummoning though. Sandy has some nice solo videos, and that’s what he’s always doing. If you can keep aggro on yourself, though, duelists can stay alive in some situations and feel lots of consistent damage that way.

Of course I meant Real Nike, but ain’t no one got the time to look up how to spell the second part of his name.

Range weapons do less damage than melee and the Berkserker is worse than the Swordsman. It’s more challenging and interesting to play full melee, and you end up doing more damage. You also get full might and boons this way. This has been the meta for a long, long time now.

The 2/4 build Xyonon posted is also nice. I like it less only because it’s more clicks to switch it to 6/6

IvanTheGrey.2941:

Is it bad that I don’t believe anyone outside the dungeon forum regulars (and two guys in bltc forum)?

You can trust Nike too, even if he can’t post here anymore (rip Nike).

You’ll always want sword/sword sword/focus. To keep it simple, use berserker for everything.

For builds, folks have settled on basically two builds. For maximum dps without full reflects, go for 6/6/0/0/2, with all of the damage or cool down options. If you need more reflects, go with 6/4/0/4/0, again with full damage and cooldown options (this build gives your wardens reflections, which can be helpful). Your play style should be full phantasm: drop them for damage and then auto attack with sword to damage. Keep mantras on your bar to get the damage modifier from Empowering Mantras. Use feedback to deal massive damage with reflects when appropriate.

If you want to be lazy, 6/4/0/4/0 is probably the most reliable. There are lots of other options with 2/x (and 6/5), but they’re about the same at the end of the day.

Welcome back, and good luck!

hendo.1940:

Good job ANet, you removed basically one of the few skill-based traits in the game, made mesmer boring (and terrible) in PvE again and killed some diversity by fixing this skill rather than actually taking some of the posts on the forum on-board and just attempted a rebalance.

Thanks for still not fixing phantasmal warden though.

rip power block

sirrealist.1360:

I’ve read a lot about how mesmer used to be “OP” back in the day, and then then got nerfed. I’ve head this a lot here in these forums by mesmer players. I say “they” b/c I wasn’t playing a mesmer then. Can someone fill me in on how the mesmer used to be OP, how long ago, and what has done to nerf them?

Ideally, I’m trying to educate myself on the history of our class, so I can be a more well-rounded player who understands how the mesmer has evolved over the years.

In PvE long ago, Time Warp was nerfed— quickness went from a 100% attack speed bonus to 50%. That was a big hit, but probably warranted.

In PvE recently, Empowering Mantras was moved to the Domination line, which killed all the meta builds which allowed you to stack maximum reflect damage and maximum reflect uptime in one build. You need separate builds for this now, so it’s irritating, but not the worst nerf.

In WvW long ago, confusion with glamour (Domination VIII) used to be very powerful, letting you stack lots of confusion on zergs very quickly. This was also nerfed to the ground.

I think these have been the major hits, but I could be missing a few.

Jackums.3496:

Was I mistaken or did they say they were also going to make Temporal Curtain reflect projectiles more reliably (particularly on slopes)? Because it’s still terrible.

They did also claim to be fixing this.

Sanderinoa.8065:

maxinion.8396:

Jerem/Sandy, do you guys have a feeling for why 6/4/0/4/0 is better than the 2/4/0/5/3 builds for general DPS with warden?

My thought is that you have more personal DPS with 6/4 than 2/4, but the overall DPS is probably the same (and personal is generally favored since phants are paper and die so easily). Did you do any testing with this yet?

Thanks!

too… many… builds… too.. many… situations, everything’s useful somewhere .__.

lol, pretty much. I’m considering just simplifying it and using 6/6/0/0/2 and 6/4/0/4/0 most of the time. Seems like that will be less stressful than constantly adjusting everything….

@Nymph: Empowering Mantras gives you bonus per Mantra, not per Mantra charge. The maximum damage you can get is +16% if you’re using all Mantras.

@sirrealist: I think I’m partly to blame for the negativity in those first few hours, so I apologize for alarming you I think as the dust is settling now we’ve more or less found the builds which recreate the old playstyle, while adapting to the new situation as best as possible. Random build killing and unfixed bugs is always a downer, especially since hopes were so high, so our initial reaction was definitely strong. There’s definitely no reason to abandon mesmer though, and the community’s discussions and collaborations on builds has been a lot of fun to watch.

Xyonon.3987:

The main question is – do you I want more reflection due faster attack speed of the warden, or stronger personal reflects with mantras? I mean reflected damage from the warden does not count as personal reflection so … only curtain and feedback.

I guess it allways depends but in general … I’d say … I have no idea =_=

It’s a matter of reflect coverage vs. reflect damage. You have to look at every encounter and decide “do I need to provide my team complete reflect coverage, or can someone else help out and I’ll focus on spiking the damage on bigger hits.” And you balance this with the DPS output of the build. The 6/6 build is great for maximizing damage and reflection spikes, but it’s probably best to run it with a reliable guardian that can make up for your holes in reflect. The 6/4 build has less damage but more reflect uptime in the situations when you absolutely need that (Alphard for example).

And correct me if I’m wrong, but untraited warden still blocks projectiles— not reflecting obviously stinks, but you can still protect your party with the full DPS build.

Anyway, it’s a huge pain in the butt to have to switch builds constantly and adjust for this, but that’s how it’s gonna have to be.

There’s also 6/4/0/4/0 for when you want focus reflects and mantras. But you listed all the options.

6/6/0/0/2 is undeniably best dps (6/5/0/0/3 might be easier to play because the phant cooldowns are better). What you do when you want focus reflects… Is unclear. There are lots of good options so just pick your favorite, I guess!

It’s probably not a bug— you probably ran the path last night. They made all chests once per day, so you won’t get anything on your second run.

There are 2-3 threads discussing these on the front page of the forum. Just look at those.

I wouldn’t make any gear investments until there are more final recommendations, though.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Doesnt empowering mantras make more sense in the domination trait line though? Granted harminous mantras dont make much sense being in dueling.

Domination is a mostly shatter based line, which doesn’t help phant builds. There’s actually no good Master level trait to choose when doing a 6/x phantasm build, so it feels like a waste.

.

Jerem/Sandy, do you guys have a feeling for why 6/4/0/4/0 is better than the 2/4/0/5/3 builds for general DPS with warden?

My thought is that you have more personal DPS with 6/4 than 2/4, but the overall DPS is probably the same (and personal is generally favored since phants are paper and die so easily). Did you do any testing with this yet?

Thanks!

OnyxMemory.9401:

What sigils should I be using on my equips and weapons?

I’m not 100% sure yet. I’d wait till more people do tests before investing here.

In pugs/unorganized groups, it looks like Sigil of Battle with Runes of Strength is a good choice, since you can quickly stack a lot of might just swapping your off hands with this.

In organized groups which stack might for you, I’m getting the best choice is Force + Night for nighttime dungeons, and Force + Accuracy for daytime dungeons. But this is still open for debate. Scholar runes would be my guess for best runes for this situation as well.