And if indeed a handful had insider info, Anet just ticked off everyone else….
Spot on
Insert double facepalm picture here.
If that rumour is true then all hope for WvW is lost with anet yet again demonstrating complete cluelessness.
And to any of the devs out there this just demonstrates how the lack of communication hurts the game. You refuse to give us any advance info on the changes but someone gets inside info anyway and acts on it to give himself and his guild the greatest possible advantage at the expense of others.
I can not wait until this update. if you look at t2 it has become extremely toxic right now with TC buying up t1 guilds and there is a severe to say the least population imbalance. FA and DB as two servers cannot match TCs numbers and coverage. I for one can not wait for the april update.
I dunno how much was paid to the kitten alliance to move to TC but certainly the events of today show that the beta changes need to be communicated well in advance so players can make informed decisions.
Ask Mal from ONS given he appears to know something and ONS/TW/WHOA have moved/are moving to TC as a result.
(edited by morrolan.9608)
Looks like he is saying it’s working as intended…. keeps the bads with the bads, the decent with the decents, and the goods with the goods….. sry if you aren’t a good?
And thats a problem? Isnt that the entire point of a matchmaking system?
If u as bad want to play with and against good ppl you can:
A] Team up
B] Play unrated and hope higher rated ppl q ueued up.
c} Get betterSounds fair to me.
Oh no I agree. I’m an advocate for the current system.
Except it isn’t whats happening, each pip range clearly has players with widely varying mmrs leading to the inconsistent results.
MMR needs to be visible. The fact they hide it is BS.
Yeah I’d really like to know why they hide it. AFAIK they’ve never explained.
It hasn’t been promised anywhere I’ve seen.
Matchmaking is first of all based on pip range AFTER that MMR applies. So matches tend to be relatively even. The only thing that does make things uneven is division locks.
Your team is based on pip range and mmr your opponents are based purely on pip range, mmr doesn’t enter into it, hence the large number of uneven matches this season.
For those who do want to try to get video proof of these hackers, they pretty much always announce when they’re going to start their hacking run on GW2wvw.net (the salt forums). If you’re wanting to sit in a tower/keep while recording, give it a shot.
No worries. We were on HoD BL last evening chasing these clowns around, and got several videos of them appearing from nowhere in the Lord’s room of each keep.
Send the video to the exploits@arena.net email.
Looking at the salt forums it appears that the former HOD hackers are doing it:
That sounds like the former Henge of Denravi hackers. Try and get some proof and the character name and send it to the email exploits@arena.net
Given that this is a live beta I expect the changes to be minor and not very disruptive, along the lines of relative population in WvW being taken into account in the scoring. Which is not enough.
So the goal is to give additional pips to individual players based on merit, but I’m not convinced that is necessary to having a skill based league system. It might even create problems, like division getting way too high for their skill, via boosted rewards for beating on minionmancers & eles all game and accomplishing nothing.
I have a rather simple proposal to change the matchmaker so this problem doesn’t happen in the first place, and that’s simply ship a priority change of how MMR grouping works.
In any pip range we have a variety of MMRs, let’s group them into 3 camps – below average, average, and above average.
Right now, from my understanding of the matchmaker, we’ll have a team of 5 taken from the below average camp and randomly faced off against a team from the below average, average, or above average camp.
When ArenaNet heard our desires of having teammates relatively close to us in skill, this MMR grouping was absolutely NOT what we wanted, if I can be so bold as to speak for the general population.
The matchmaking in season1 was good in the way that it had high quality, close matches. A big problem (excluding other problems) is that it did whatever it took to even the team MMRs, including adding players who didn’t belong there, to handicap, or boost the team MMR. This was disruptive.
What I propose is a combination of S1 and S2 matchmaking, where matchmaking still determines your matchups based on pip range, like it does now, to stay in line of ‘perserving prestige’ in divisions.
The main difference would be instead of finding two very different groups of 5 alike MMR people, and having a potentially imbalanced match, try to find the 10 most similarly rated players in MMR within the pip range, rank them #1-10 based on MMR, and have even vs. odds. With an expanding PIP range, and variation in MMRs accepted as the queue goes on.
In a 5v5 with the 10 most similarly rated players, there won’t be as big a need to promote certain players over others, as it’ll be much harder for you to become underrated in MMR by the system.
[…]
I’m a bit weary of all the crazy matchmaker/ladder fads we’ve tested. I’m happy we added the league system which was a huge step forward, but we just need to get a normal and ordinary matchmaker to complement it like we had before.
I also support this idea.
Nah, slightly modified in the wrong way?? Just give people MMR vs MMR or pip vs pip range. That’s what lol, data or Smite or CS:GO uses. So what aren’t we doing that?? Even the Glicko 2 excel add on won’t let me match a 1000 vs a 3000 chess player.
Start with the basic MMR vs MMR (within 2 tier) or pip vs pip( this one is risky though) and go from there.
I think pip v pip relies on a large population to be effective and I don’t think GW2 has that. I think there is a huge risk that we would end up in a similar situation to this season. It has to be mmr based.
(edited by morrolan.9608)
Yep. Season one was definitely better…
All of the season 1 problems could have been fixed by just the anti smurfing mechanisms and the win streak rewards.
Are you sure. There were people who still claimed that they were in an MMR hell.
Yes I’m sure, any complaints about loss streaks and mmr hell were nothing in S1 compared to the prevalence of them in S2.
Except there were people claiming that matches were not evenly balanced during that season.
It was far better balanced than this season with few complaints about loss streaks. If the population is too low to match opposing teams by mmr as other games do then whilst the S1 solution wasn’t perfect it was a kitten sight better than S2 once the anti smurfing mechanisms and win streak rewards are added in.
Do you have evidence that it was far better balanced? How do you know that removing the ability to manipulate MMR would have not led us to where we are now?
The evidence is in how the matchmaking algorithm worked in S1 compared to S2. Plus there’s the anecdotal evidence of lower ranked players.
I was actually stupid enough to contemplate transferring to T1 so I did some research. The reason I didn’t transfer was because of a completely different culture than what I wanted. Your problems are your problems not because of T1 having the highest population but because of your culture.
As others have said the culture being criticized in this thread is not a T1 culture its the culture of 1 server in particular who wouldn’t have come up to T1 without the ego and stupidity of a couple of commanders.
It’s not this in T1 on EU… I don’t see this…
We don’t have too much siege inside our keep, we don’t have any scout anymore…
Thats because its only 1 server in particular in T1 NA, or maybe 1-2 others in lower tiers.
Yep. Season one was definitely better…
All of the season 1 problems could have been fixed by just the anti smurfing mechanisms and the win streak rewards.
Except there were people claiming that matches were not evenly balanced during that season.
It was far better balanced than this season with few complaints about loss streaks. If the population is too low to match opposing teams by mmr as other games do then whilst the S1 solution wasn’t perfect it was a kitten sight better than S2 once the anti smurfing mechanisms and win streak rewards are added in.
I agree let’s go back to the system that allows people who don’t know simple game mechanics to advance to legendary
Which is largely unrelated to the matchmaking as I said above.
BG also has many micro guilds. The only difference is that they work with the rest of the server, so we end up achieving greater results. My own guild was once in this position, only it has grown now to the point where we can no longer be considered one of those micro guilds.
Many on YB want smaller fights spread across the maps and purposely avoid blob on blob pirate ship meta because they don’t enjoy that type of fighting. BG/JQ on the other hand often embrace blob v blob fights at least during NA prime.
YB seems to be blobbing a lot in ocx time, last night you had a blob of probably 40 composed of Pain, FOW, JG and AG. Pain used to run separately a lot of the time but not so much any more.
To the OP you missed the increase in AC damage.
Send an email with details to:
exploits@arena.net
No.
We aren’t changing anything regarding the layout of the map.
So what happens to the daily? Will the map be reinstated with the dailies unchanged as happened with the launch of the desert BL?
And also what about the ruins, what will taking them do? Given that PPK is in full time now.
WvW is in a worse spot than PvP.
Definitely trapper runes, a cheesy troll build.
NA has 3 very high population servers, and 2 High population servers, the rest are the lowest medium…that is just sad.
Yep its sad and you know what else is sad, its a Monday and YB are already karma trainng during ocx time.
Note that such comments are coming from servers currently losing to, or previously losing to, YB. Apparently, consistently losing the PPT make folks salty, or you wouldn’t hear such bitter comments. So, take it with a grain of salt (lol).
You’ll note that exactly the same comments have come from all their opponents from T5 up to T1 and they have been made regardless of whether they had been winning or losing, but of course they’re all wrong………
After 3 years of watching the game flourish then die out slowly, server stacking is needed to help population.
3 years ago T5 was as active as T1 is now. Only natural to those of us who enjoy WvW to server stack towards the top to keep that “feeling” alive.
Spot on it was needed needed really when they changed the population limit calculation but they were too shortsighted to see what was happening and what was required.
I’m in Tier 1 atm so I’m not sure where your sarcasm is coming from or what is directed at. It was pretty clear to me that when JQ guilds started dropping down it was to stop a rising DB.
It has nothing to do with “Evil Overlords” and more to do with JQ trying to stay in Tier 1. There are people on BG and JQ that are heavily invested in those servers and will play the tier meta game to stay in tier 1.
LMAO that you think people are so invested in a dead game mode that they would do this.
The guilds I have seen from JQ are KAZO and KILL so far and I am sure there are more.
Kill is still on JQ.
you created such a mess its not even
What? They actually set population limits too low when they changed the calculation months ago.
But obviously they silently relaxed it to stop the forum-cry’s about full-server, o
No its just evidence of players leaving the game.
As for the fighting thing, YB lacks a large organized guild. It is not fun to continually run pugs into a group like Sekz and get bag farmed. If YB had a large organized guild I am sure the style of fighting would be different but finding 30 man guild groups is pretty rare these days.
If you will cover the transfer costs [DOLO] might entertain trimming their numbers down to 30. Contact Mini Jak (Jak.9247) in game.
This DOLO:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4c7yo0/wvw_trolling_and_when_it_goes_too_far_ggggdolo/
Please no.
you created such a mess its not even
What? They actually set population limits too low when they changed the calculation months ago.
Well BG is humping the PPT this week. I suspect spring break has allowed them to maintain a very high population. Looks like when BG has players and coverage they do exactly what YB and pretty much every other server does.
BG have never purposefully avoided fights and backcapped and relied on as much siege in fights as YB does.
It’s very clear that I will never win the wings.
The wings aren’t for everyone. Nor should they be.
Yeah they are, anet actually said so so long as players are prepared to work for them, skill is irrelevant.
Hey everyone,
I wanted to just chime in here and make some things clear as they may not be clear.
The “Year of The Ascension” achievement do not reset/clear between seasons. Whatever progress you have carries over to the next season.
If you can’t/don’t get the legendary if a specific year then there will be another way to obtain that specific backpack. I can’t go into any details on that, but you WILL be able to get previous years backpacks in some way.
We also understand the frustration of players and matchmaking this season and will do our best to make some changes for Season 3.
But if we get say the first 3 year of ascension achievements but not the 4th will they count towards progress in getting the backpack in the future after this year?
The thing is, a “teddy bear stamp for participation” doesn’t really work as a reward either.
The best way to encourage players to stay, is to have gameplay that is fun enough to keep them playing even when losing.I used to play in an amateur basketball league. We were totally casual and near the bottom, we’d win some but most of our opponents were better.
Even when losing, matches were still enjoyable because of the little personal wins along the way. When you get a point, steal the ball, get a rebound, etc etc.
Psychological wins yes good point, this is something that is completely non-existant in this league system, small wins to keep players playing. I would argue its almost non-existant across the whole of GW2, anet clearly pay no attention to gamer psychology in their reward systems, which are in general based on grinding to keep players in game and the effect on the game economy.
I take example League (competitive enough for you, no?) the matchmaking there IS heavily based on your division/piprange (other terms there, same thing). Meaning each pip in different division/tier there actually had same value to good and bad players. A pip (ca. 20 pts out of 100 there) in silver is hard to get for bad player but easy to get for good player. A pip in diamond division is impossible to get for bad player but represents average/hard difficulty for good player. This is how it should be.
Totally different game with a population large enough that pip range does represent skill level therefore they are effectively matching up players of the same mmr. GW2 has a small pop and the way the system is pip range does not represent skill. Effectively league is doing exactly what I am saying. Anywya the pip system has clear issues whether its used by league or other games in that when one reaches their natural plateau its not a pleasant experience to go up and down gaining then losing pips. Basing divisions on the actual mmr as other competitive games do is a far better solution in terms of gamer psychology.
In season 1 pip in amber was really easy for player with low MR and really hard for player with high MMR. 1 pip in diamond division was still relative easy/average for player with low MMR and hard for player with high MMR. What is there not to understand? The player with high MMR had to sweat through entire league to legend while player with low MMR got to legend (where he definitely doesn’t belong) by having “easy” games.
Yes through exploits.
(edited by morrolan.9608)
tldr: The historical casual nature of GW2 is why we have the current level of toxicity that we do. The PvP team underestimated its casual player base.
You raise a good point. Its not just the general nature of the game though, anet explicitly stated that anyone could get the backpack through effort. With S2 they have now threatened that. If they had said up front the wings would be available to those who make legendary I for one would have accepted it and tried my hand at ranked simply just to test my skill and not to make a serious go at the reward. I probably wouldn’t have lasted long because the pip system totally discourages average players even with no great rewards on the line.
Just for “sheer effort” I should get my hands on the anything by your logic…sorry it doesn’t work like that anywhere, you’re either good enough to get it…or you don’t that’s how reality works both in pve and pvp apparently
Uh welcome to guild wars 2 where everything is available by grinding, even the raids aren’t a great test of PvE skill.
(edited by morrolan.9608)
Why not simply match enemy teams based on mmr.
It doesn’t work well with pip system. Because every win gives a pip. Meaning you will always face enemies of your MMR but gain as many pips as say team of way better players than you beating a team with way better player than you. We had that last season. Leagues were literary glorified reward track – nothing else. We just had once again all kind of players in legend and diamond that definitely don’t belong there.
That wasn’t what we had in season 1, I’m talking about matching both teammates and opposing teams by mmr, most competitive games do this. Your first 2 sentences don;t make sense, a win in any division is worth a pip.
Maybe there needs to be a division between diamond and legendary?
Why not simply match enemy teams based on mmr.
Is there proof of what you are saying? Like has a dev said that it is sensitive to loss/win streaks? Or is this a conclusion you have come to from observing matchmaking as a player?
There have been at least 2 models done posted on the forum which have reached that conclusion.
Ty for posting this Eura. However, as you can see people will completely disregard what you say to convince themselves it’s the system keeping them down, not their own skill level. I don’t think anything can convince them otherwise, even if an ANet dev came in here and straight up said mmr hell doesn’t exist.
So, from another thread where an Anet Dev came in and said this yesterday
This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.
Yes I saw that post. Nowhere does he say that mmr hell exists, only that they acknowledge the issues people are having with the system. People don’t enjoy losing 10 times in a row, even if they’re part of the reason they’re losing.
If mmr hell exists it is only part of the problems with the matchmaking, yet you guys would have us believe there are no problems at all.
Never heard of lip service or PR work have you?
Yes because then if they make no changes that will go over so well. Thew ignore threads that have no relevance to development.
Just because a dev said ooh maybe we will look into that doesn’t mean the model is worth it for them.
There are problems in matchmaking in every game…… gw2 problems aren’t different.
Sure they are because the system doesn’t match teams by mmr, does any other competitive game do that? Do you deny that the system would be better if there was mmr matching involved in opposing team selection?
And the devs only ever reply to posts that interest them they never reply just because.
there is no mmr hell. the only “hell” some players are in is their own, thinking they are better than they actually are.
Yet people are modelling the system and providing mathematical proof that it does exist and have been acknowledged by the devs
does anyone just have fun playing the game….. this is ridiculous.
How is it fun to endure long loss streaks? How is it fun to constantly get close to moving up a tier only to have the matchmaking ruin it for you and have a long loss streak undoing all your work? How is it fun to supposedly be playing against players of your own level only to be matched against pro league players on alt accounts?
I enjoy all the modes (well, WvW is dead so I can’t really play it, on my server at least), and I don’t care about the backpack, so I’ve been playing Ranked very casually (I’m about 2 pips away from Sapphire). It’s unfortunate that all the backpack has done, is made people that didn’t have an interest in PvP, hate it even more.
Its made those of us who like pvp at a lower level hate pvp as well.
and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.
So you don’t believe the devs who have acknowledged the worth of the model and that there are problems with the matchmaking?
Pretty funny for a pro league player to try and make out that there is no mmr hell because he didn’t get stuck in it.
And BTW you are ignoring the modelling people are doing which have been posted in more than 1 thread and which have been acknowledged by the devs.
You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.
You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.
Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.
what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.
Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.
I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.
You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.
There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.
I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.
I like forward to your math disproving it then, the OP in no way admitted that it was irrelevant. Plus there have been 1-2 other models done with much the same conclusion and the anet devs themselves seem to regard it as useful.
I wasn’t the one disproving it I beleive it was some guy named ensign.
He in no way disproved it.
You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.
You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.
Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.
what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.
Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.
I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.
You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.
There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.
I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.
I like forward to your math disproving it then, the OP in no way admitted that it was irrelevant. Plus there have been 1-2 other models done with much the same conclusion and the anet devs themselves seem to regard it as useful.
Reduce their damage to what it was at the beginning of the game. Make them LOS properly, they can still hit areas they shouldn’t be able to.
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