Guild Wars 2

I disagree specialisation gives classes a role like revenants have aoe boons of other types.

lil devils x.6071:

morrolan.9608:

OK so this is an early reset. Why the kitten did you not give us early warning for this so we could prepare? You need to communicate better and understand exactly what info players want.

Since this is a Beta Test, the scores/ matches may not really count and everything could start blank/ new when it leaves Beta Testing. They DID tell us the Alpine were coming back last night, and many did think it would be today, but yes I can understand people being frustrated not knowing this could happen during a Beta Test.

Its not a real beta test, this is a live game the results count towards a servers overall glicko. And it doesn’t excuse the total lack of communication.

OK so this is an early reset. Why the kitten did you not give us early warning for this so we could prepare? You need to communicate better and understand exactly what info players want.

Fay.2357:

Yeah, but your assumption is somewhat faulty. You’re assuming that these glicko cliffs are merely artifacts and don’t represent the true difference in strength between border servers. However, when in the past the random rolls have boosted a medium server and allowed a higher border server to come down, the results have generally shown that the difference between the T1 bottom border server and the T2 top border server is still massive. This indicates that the basic problem is not with glicko itself (it does have problems though), but instead with server stacking.

Note that this does not appear to have happened with the recent matchup changes. eg JQ is leading FA but not by a huge amount.

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

morrolan.9608:

Lurock Turoth.9085:

morrolan.9608:

DillyRoX.4790:

DeWolfe.2174:

littlemunster.1059:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Straegen.2938:

BG finally wins a week with the help of the strongest T8 server after months of losing and proceeds to declare victory. Good to know.

Lol is the word on YB really that BG is winning because of ET? I mean we like those guys, but come on lol.

Yes. ET saved BG. We all know that. But it’s better that they saved BG than YB who only knows how to do siege wars.

The plan right now is to let TC get to T1. This way it’s TC and YB in the same match with BG. That match, with that much siege, it just couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of people.

Muahahahaha….. MUAHAHAHAHAaaaaaaa…..!!!!!!!!!

Seen as your account is on Jade Quarrowcart, I´m sure you know how used we already are to dealing with siege.

Think you’re confusing JQ with YB or maybe TC

Have ye met CloudFly? cause kitten son….no one chucks AC’s for 5 people like CloudFly…

Cloudfly is solely a pugmander and hardly representative of the server as a whole.

Cloudfly is the JQ SEA version of Yak’s Bend DK.

I didn’t realise Cloudfly was the guild leader of the biggest guild on the server and the server leader. As for the relative merits mileage varies especially when you consider Cloud is always pugmanding whereas DK does lead a large guild group a lot of the time.

Svarty.8019:

The campaign starts NOW!

The Alpine maps are too small, simple and boring. Please can we have the Desert maps back?

Given current WvW pop its hardly too small.

Chris Barrett.3280:

WvW will re-enable and spin up Alpine maps not long after the new build is available.

I’m glad that Alpine is back although I hope for a rotation of it and desert. But why wasn’t this done at reset? Is it a technical reason? You’re compromising the current weeks match in what is supposed to be a competitive mode.

Neftex.7594:

yes CU has 3 factions, but its not cross server so pretty much the same problem with low pop can arise there
in CU 1 faction from 1 server loses population, the other 2 will steamroll it and theres no way to recover unless other factions transfer to the loser for “incentives”

So you roll a toon on another server/campaign or it may have a guesting mechanic. There are ways around it but I don’t think the details have been documented.

Lurock Turoth.9085:

morrolan.9608:

DillyRoX.4790:

DeWolfe.2174:

littlemunster.1059:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Straegen.2938:

BG finally wins a week with the help of the strongest T8 server after months of losing and proceeds to declare victory. Good to know.

Lol is the word on YB really that BG is winning because of ET? I mean we like those guys, but come on lol.

Yes. ET saved BG. We all know that. But it’s better that they saved BG than YB who only knows how to do siege wars.

The plan right now is to let TC get to T1. This way it’s TC and YB in the same match with BG. That match, with that much siege, it just couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of people.

Muahahahaha….. MUAHAHAHAHAaaaaaaa…..!!!!!!!!!

Seen as your account is on Jade Quarrowcart, I´m sure you know how used we already are to dealing with siege.

Think you’re confusing JQ with YB or maybe TC

Have ye met CloudFly? cause kitten son….no one chucks AC’s for 5 people like CloudFly…

Cloudfly is solely a pugmander and hardly representative of the server as a whole.

Tiffany.8576:

JQ “died” for several reasons. One of the first, which has already been touched upon by others, are the clique of individuals mostly from the same few guilds who administrate the community’s infrastructure (website, TS). Some barely play the game at all, but feel they’re in a position to have a lot to say about commanders/guilds or push back on absolutely any suggestion which may widen the distribution of “power” (even “power” as limited as to be able to verify people in TS) which would have made things easier for the community overall.

With the advent of the linkage system the system has been changed to what some commanders were asking for.

Tiffany.8576:

Now JQ are left with all the “admins” in “power” who are irrelevant to actual WvW with hardly anyone to administrate and who are incapable of actual leading in the game itself. Great job! JQ forgot the number 1 rule: it’s always the actual guilds and commanders who are the most important aspect of any server’s WvW community, and they should be listened to and served by the people running the infrastructure. Always remember that being a admin/mod is a position of servitude and listening to what the people who are actually running things in WvW for the server want and trying to improve things to make life easier for those people, as without them you have no WvW presence at all. It’s not about dictating things, making wide threats about removing entire groups of peoples’ permissions or randomly changing peoples’ statuses or access based on whether you like them or not.

Before you left the JQ Council was reformed exactly along those lines, problem was it was done poorly with non NA guilds being treated as an afterthought.

Tiffany.8576:

Having said all this, this is certainly not the only reason why JQ is struggling these days. The other half of the story is that people simply got bored both with the game mode and with how match-ups were playing out on JQ. Once upon a time, JQ was ridiculously stacked in most timezones and steamrolling everything consistently becomes boring and makes players either quit or move on to find better challenges. There was a time during EU when JQ could literally queue two separate maps between Kazo and KILL with up to 4-5 commanders running should those guilds so wish, versus maybe 1 commander with 25 on BG and 1 commander with 25 TC on a good day. This went on for maybe 6 months and I barely played personally during this time as logging in to k-train with no meaningful fights was ridiculously boring;

Yet now you are on TC doing exactly the same thing. Cern and Kazo steamrolling everything in sight with no opposition.

Tiffany.8576:

Finally, and maybe this is just me, but as an English-speaking player I actually didn’t particularly have fun spending time in WvW on JQ during off-hours outside of my own guild raids. Some of the main off-hours commanders who lead large militia forces don’t use TS or are unable to communicate too well as they’re from SEA countries with only a very basic understanding of the English language.

Yet you went out of your way to antagonise the main JQ SEA pugmander.

Devils Toy.9205:

It’s not even about the OT Jason. It’s about the blatant disrespect of other guilds, commanders, players that was shown. Over the last few months I saw more and more commanders, guilds not willing to work together, only “taking care of themselves”, “we are here to get our fights and leave, who cares if we lose that keep or garri”, attitude. Commanders thinking EB was their’s and telling others to get off the map and those same commanders then not running in public TS but yet wanting to call everyone garbage because they kept getting wiped.

But wasn’t that mostly the guilds that transferred in after NA numbers had started to decline? ie not JQ core guilds.

Neftex.7594:

basically you fight for nothing, with people changing every time, so what you achieved last week says nothing because this week is totally different

RvR games being based on matches like these?
CU doesnt seem to be the case
ESO with campaigns is similar but still different than this suggestion

You’re fighting for your faction, faction pride is the same as server pride. CU has 3 factions, players and guild will pick a server to play on and their faction.

Crowfall is also the same, 3 factions but also has extended options with 12 gods. Servers can be based on fighting for your faction or a 12 way fight for your god or there is proposed to be a free for all rule set for servers.

FogLeg.9354:

If I understand it correctly, there wont be any matchmaking. You belong to one of the 3 factions permanently, each week you pick one of the campaigns to enter. The campaigns are basically “matches” but with different goals and different maps and hard caps on population.

Yes that is how every other RvR game is designed and it is a far better design than WvW. However at the current point its clear that the game must be based around server alliances rather than factions.

Synosius.9876:

i hope anet doesnt read this thread and actually think… oh maybe we made a mistake?

the issue jq has isnt lack of players, its why dont the players they do have want to be in wvw?

like rly stop and think about this, the system counts enough players to mark the server as full but doesnt consider how long they spend in wvw or how effective is their organization.

Server was high (not even very high) just before the change so you’re wrong, all top 12 servers have been marked as full so anet have clearly manually marked the servers as full. There are very few NA guilds left, there may be some pugs but not guilds.

basz.6129:

Idk. I like the gyros tracking mechanic. It feels like another ‘tick-mark’ on the list of things I know I need to pay attention to. Terrain has an effect on my flying drones that also basically have to get somewhere in the vicinity of my current node for me to make use of.

Its a lot of busywork rather than actually playing and if you’re moving the gyro ends up being wasted. Plus it compromises our ability swiftly rotate in pvp.

Naix.8156:

Engie survival was absolutely gutted across the board. I don’t follow how 380 per tick healing when you have super speed is somehow amazing. What’s the uptime on super speed in an avg match again?

Engie survival to damage ratio was slightly too good. The reason was the engie ran all defensive trait lines and paired it with a glassy amulet. Instead of shave anet tweaked nearly every survival tool down – hence engie is in a weak position for competitive pvp.

Hardly, stop using a glassy amulet and use blast gyro instead of slick shoes. Result we have similar sustain but lose out on cc.

No,

sincerely

all non guardian players

Puro.8196:

I play a lot of competitive games and I’ve never seen the competitive arena(ranked) be disabled, EVER..

This just makes gw2 seem so casual.

Cause they obviously locked ranked PvP to seasons. Its funny how it never occurred to them that players would want to remain playing ranked in between actual seasons cause it seems like most players expect to continue playing ranked even if its not in season.

This is how WvW should have been set up from the start, funny that they essentially had 3 factions in the game and didn’t use them for WvW.

Now I think they should move to something similar but based on server alliances.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Aeowia.7214:

Many JQ players answered the call to fight the evil empire that gathered on TC

evil empire lol? you guys outnumbered us at pretty mich all times of day. pretty sure jq is the evil empire, and tc is like some hill tribe scrounging for food in the surrounding environs.

You do realise that the alliance of guilds that went to TC recently now call themselves the empire…

FogLeg.9354:

morrolan.9608:

FogLeg.9354:

Both ideas you guys posted were implemented in the Anet proposal. It was really good, fair system, look it up and read it.

No they weren’t. The timezones are used to dictate what the expected population is supposed to be for that period and to weight the score accordingly, totally different to the OP. And I’m pretty sure a strong NA won’t be punished for being stronger than their opponents.

It would be difficult to argue about something we can not even post here. But let’s hope this will not be deleted, I will quote the unmentionable now:

Placement

Points for 1st – 3/6/9
Points for 2nd – 2/4/6
Points for 3rd – 1/2/3

Not only smilar, but exactly same.

No its not. Those are the PPT you get for being in 1st 2nd or 3rd at the tick. Totally different, servers also get PPT for the structures they hold and it increases near the end of the week. And it decreases in the off hours hence the complaints from off hours players.

FogLeg.9354:

Both ideas you guys posted were implemented in the Anet proposal. It was really good, fair system, look it up and read it.

No they weren’t. The timezones are used to dictate what the expected population is supposed to be for that period and to weight the score accordingly, totally different to the OP. And I’m pretty sure a strong NA won’t be punished for being stronger than their opponents.

SkyShroud.2865:

Substance E.4852:

morrolan.9608:

Weli.4568:

Reducing off time mattering in mu’s is obviously more logical answer.

Players contribution being worth less solely due to where they live is logical?

When you are on a server not located in your personal time zone. Yes, yes it is.

Base on the logic, the server is located in PST, so EST is considered night capping hours.

OK then you;d be happy for all your non NA to move to a rival server then I presume.

Weli.4568:

Reducing off time mattering in mu’s is obviously more logical answer.

Players contribution being worth less solely due to where they live is logical?

tym.3791:

Always HATED the double team ups. At one time I was on a server that loved to do that. In the end, us getting double teamed is fine. Loosing is fine. Things always change, We stomped on BG and JQ when they double teamed us,

In what universe?

DillyRoX.4790:

DeWolfe.2174:

littlemunster.1059:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Straegen.2938:

BG finally wins a week with the help of the strongest T8 server after months of losing and proceeds to declare victory. Good to know.

Lol is the word on YB really that BG is winning because of ET? I mean we like those guys, but come on lol.

Yes. ET saved BG. We all know that. But it’s better that they saved BG than YB who only knows how to do siege wars.

The plan right now is to let TC get to T1. This way it’s TC and YB in the same match with BG. That match, with that much siege, it just couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of people.

Muahahahaha….. MUAHAHAHAHAaaaaaaa…..!!!!!!!!!

Seen as your account is on Jade Quarrowcart, I´m sure you know how used we already are to dealing with siege.

Think you’re confusing JQ with YB or maybe TC

Chaba.5410:

It is only deviation and volatility reset?

If you check Snowreap’s thread, DB/YB/BG was less than 2% chance at that match. FA/JQ/TC was less than 1%.

IMHO hopefully this volatility keeps up. Hope the glicko difference between servers in NA gets smaller.

Maybe but it looks to me like the performance of servers that go up or down a tier are still being being unfairly assessed compared to servers already in that matchup.

Straegen.2938:

JQ has been in a larger decline the last few weeks than either YB or BG. That is all it is/was. Everything has changed now and I don’t think anyone really knows the result until the dust will settles.

Prior to the WvW patch everybody knew the pattern. BG blobbed on the weekends and for a couple hours on EBG during NA prime weekdays. JQ blobbed in off hours and sometimes had a decent NA blob. YB had a relatively consistent population most of the day focused on capture and defended during the enemy blobbing hours. It has been this way for weeks/months.

YB have lost some guilds and people

Sviel.7493:

They might not do something as simple as lowering points in various time zones. There are more elegant ways to approach the problem and they’ve had years to think about it…I think they’ll do better.

The system was detailed in the leaked notes and it was exactly that.

No, its meant to be for 3 months

I voted scoring, however my feedback is if you think population issues are solved you are kidding yourself and it should be at the top of the priority list.

Also with the scoring make sure you give consideration for how those who play in off hours might feel devalued if their score is worth less.

Final point please combine cross map chat with scoring. How hard could it be to make team chat a total server chat across all maps? Map and team chat for a map is not needed.

Oak da Vite.9054:

Actually, I like the fact that the “bigger” server of a couple is full.
In terms of population balance this is the best and only method to create a complete population balance in the long run.

No its not, the mode will just end up being the same situation as before. All they are doing is merging servers, the issues that brought the mode into this state are not being addressed.

Blackarps.1974:

You guys must not be on JQ if you don’t think its dying.

I’m on JQ and we may have a smaller population than we should and move down a tier, that does not equate to dying. TBH I don’t think our overall pop is much different to YB now that they have had all their departures, they are just propped up by a weasel who pulls stupidly long hours and deliberately targets the off hours of other servers. Whats funny is that ultimately he isn’t doing his server any favours if they end up in a BG/TC/YB match up.

lil devils x.6071:

What is really sad is I have never seen so much typemanding in my life than on JQ now even when they do have people. It is sad when CLoudfly seems to be one of the few commanders on JQ using TS these days at all and he is having to run nonstop or they lose everything.

You moved so how would you know? From what I’ve seen all guilds providing map commanders are in TS. There are some pugmanders pinning up that might not be in TS but that is ad hoc.

Its pretty poor form that you leave the server and then try to talk it down like this.

Svarty.8019:

Well, there’s a poll where you can help sort the scores out here:

• PLEASE VOTE FOR SCORING : https://feedback.guildwars2.com/en

The change to scoring which has already been revealed is no solution to the population issues its another band aid. Its a piece but a small piece which provide some mitigation against population disparities but also runs the severe risk of alienating off hours players in ocx, eu and sea times. My fear is that with the linkage system in place and scoring changes anet think its job done, when its not.

drcraig.9403:

DeWolfe.2174:

We need a clean thread to discuss the tiers and how the matches are balanced. Every match in NA is already lopsided within a day. For creating good matches, with balanced coverage and populations, I’m giving the Dev’s a D.

What say you?

Not sure what you’re complaint is. You’re neck & neck with YB, seems like balance to me.

A+

There is a 3rd server involved.

FogLeg.9354:

OP:

Not sure if your conclusion that host servers are full because they got linked with smaller server is completely true. Have you not seen many people returning to WvW because of these changes? The host servers could be full because they atm have more players playing.

All of the top half of the NA servers are now full when only the top 4 servers maybe only BG, TC and maybe DB should be full as per the population caps. It is abundantly clear that they have simply locked the larger server in the linkage without any regard for actual population.

TorquedSoul.8097:

Unless someone gets clever and overstacks a lower tier server. But that will never happen … right?

Lets pick one to stack today. How about we start at the bottom.

EVERYONE GO TO ANVIL ROCK!!!!

Guilds and players have already started moving to lower servers to get into a particular matchup it just hasn’t been a big guild or alliance yet.

Blackarps.1974:

This is something I’ve been off and on talking about with Tyler. I hope he doesn’t mind me sharing but he basically said that full servers are going to remain full until the linking changes or guilds transfer. The sad thing is, that if you want to grow your guild and move to a lower tier, you’re going to need to move to one that is linked with a pretty popular server (which you have to keep in mind that the link can change).

This is ridiculous, what are guilds supposed to do? As Serith states above they consign guilds to stagnation. Typical anet short sighted thinking. If they changed WvW into a full server alliance system there would not be this issue, instead they remain hamstrung to the unworkable server system and refuse to make the fundamental changes needed.

It sounds like the linkage system is not going to develop much more than what it is currently. If pop declines then they’ll merge 3 or more servers together. They’re supposed to have been working on changes for the last 18 months at least. What the hell have they been doing if all they do is fritter away at the edges?

Deathmatch and capture the flag are 2 modes that should definitely be included. For DM they could use Courtyard and the conquest maps.

Blix.8021:

Except when I left JQ and went to tier 2, the difference in activity was massive. This was before the server mergers. All the tier 1 servers had less activity, sure, but because of the stupid glicko wall nothing ever moved. Anyone who denies JQ’s population is in an unhealthy state now is just in denial. Ticking 100 in NA and 350 in SEA with only BG to fight is not good. Whole tier is rotten.

I don’t deny its in an unhealthy state but thats a game wide problem and it doesn’t mean the server is dying as a whole.

fishball.7204:

Pretty much all servers have had reduced population since a year ago, even BG.

If that’s your justification for a server dying then all 24 servers are dying.

Spot on its a game wide problem.

Snowfox.3510:

ddos = no problem
switch teams in midle of pvp season = no problem
little wierd

You do understand this wasn’t team switching right?

Blix.8021:

morrolan.9608:

Blackarps.1974:

Looks about right for JQ. Dying server with SEA still doing a lot of the work to keep PPT alive. Never thought I’d see JQ near the bottom of the list for WvW though.

What is this obsession with JQ dying? Its not. Look at the current scores.

The scores propped up by the SEA population? Yeah, JQ is dying.

Dying implies getting worse and worse, JQ is not.

As an ele and guardian the stability change is great.

In terms of other feedback the new 10 man restriction on static is ridiculous in terms of enabling smaller groups to fight larger groups.

Plus I would also say venoms need another nerf as they are being used more often now to full strip stability.

Crise.9401:

Evan Lesh.3295:

If players have inaccurate league mmr, then we’d copy a bad value. I personally prefer to have a single rating because the more ratings we have, the less accurate they all become because of split playtime. Ideally players should have relatively the same mmr on and off-season, but that is dependent on the styles of matchmaking.

Just going to throw out this here, I sort of said it in an earlier post, but wouldn’t the ideal scenario be to take what works from league matchmaking and figure out a way to apply that across all PvP matchmaking.

Well a fully MMR based matchmaking would do that say if MMR was used to determine divisions during seasons.

Lightsbane.9012:

i’m hoping engineers next spec is ranged, and that it gets something totally edgy and ridiculous…that fires rockets or something. why not out of a greatsword?

Rockets out of a greatsword??

Evan Lesh.3295:

This —>||<-- close to having this thread closed for going off topic.

The core desire behind wanting ranked back sounds like expected player behavior is different in the two arenas. If we enabled ranked in the off-season, would players expect to have a separate mmr from league seasons, or the same?

Depends on how you are going to change matchmaking for season 3.

Jourdelune.7456:

Paragon system will be much more rewarding for competitive skill-based players.

Maybe but its a MOBA.

Chaba.5410:

I still don’t understand why an OCX server (IoJ) was paired with a SEA server (JQ) when NA was needed to provide for better matches.

Cause despite their statements anet didn’t really use activity time slices to choose the linkages.

BTW JQ still has a good size OCX so its not just a SEA server.

Blackarps.1974:

Looks about right for JQ. Dying server with SEA still doing a lot of the work to keep PPT alive. Never thought I’d see JQ near the bottom of the list for WvW though.

What is this obsession with JQ dying? Its not. Look at the current scores.