You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.
You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.
Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.
You’re right. The numbers don’t lie. And i believe other posts have mathematically explained how people can get stuck with a MMR below their actual skill level.
I’ve been in situations where i double down double stomp a 1v2 on my engi while the rest of my team gets wiped on a 4v3. Why should i have to carry the pvptards? Because i trashed my MMR in S1 when i learned how to play? I think all you stellar pvp elites should have the dead weight on your teams. You’re fine with it cause the deck is stacked in your favor.
i wouldn’t call myself elite. BUT! If you just learned how to play in s1 you shouldnt be good enough to carry or make it to legendary unless you are an extremely special player. A lot of us have been playing for years and some still wont make it to legendary.
I’m not hoping to get to legendary. I’ve been stuck in t5 emerald for 3 weeks. every night i get to within 1 pip and then things get kitty. Seriously some nights i’ll get to within 1 pip 3 times. The wins are strong wins too. (More than 100pts) Then “magically” the last match before i get out of bloody emerald i get captain pvptard on my team. EVERY kittenING TIME!!!
I was in the same position for 2 weeks. Its amazing the way the matchmaker put me with people who don’t know how to play every single time I got to within 1 pip of sapphire ( almost like it was by design). I took a weeks break got into a good group when I came back and got into sapphire with only a couple more losses. Of course when I reached sapphire I then had another losing streak with braindead groups and said enough was enough and quit the season. It remains to be seen whether I come back for next season.
I’m not a huge fan of the “just throw ‘x number’ of players together” at random ala GW1 FA, JQ or RA. I don’t necessarily want to be teamed with just 4 other ppl that queued at the same time as me so long as they fall in the right pip range.
Yeah I’m not so sure this would work out either. After all theoretically this S2 system should have worked and its worse. There may be issues with mmr but basing matches on averaging it out led to closer matches and no problems with long loss streaks.
Once you’ve finished laughing at how bad I am, have a good look at what they are doing there. Expand the games, see how they match the average MMR of the teams, take into account other important (for that game) statistics Kill/Deaths etc. Remember their player base is much smaller than GW2 at the moment but they’re managing to create good games with very reasonable queue times – max I’ve had is about 7 mins, usually 2-3 mins.
So they match 10 players within an elo range and sort them into teams so the average elo is around the same?
This looks exactly what GW2 should do, I doubt it will happen though because they don’t appear to want transparency. And there is the problem of the ascension achievements.
OTOH I was flip flopping on trying Paragon, I don’t like mobas that much, however your post has convinced me to try it cause I know how committed Epic are to providing a good gaming experience.
SoR/BG/JQ in T1 NA pre-season 1 days.
Full of good guilds around, fights 24/7, server loyalty was still a thing so people really cared about the server, plenty of guilds with different sizes and different focus, no big drama in any of the servers or anything like that. Everybody was having a blast.
Agree with this, great days on SOR running with TW, Choo, Fear and Tsym.
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The fight is bugged and there have been many many complaints about it that anet have never addressed. Try and get in a group to do it.
It’s my belief that some (not all) of the issues that people are blaming MMR for is actually due to poor group compositions than their MMR scores. You know, like teams with 4 reapers and a Druid while the other team is more balanced with an Ele. While players do have some control over their MMR, they have even more control over the group composition. Yes, there will be those that will not switch to another class but that’s really no different than the player that insists on repeatedly going for lord.
I agree its a factor but switching to another class is not just a snap of the fingers. It takes hundreds of matches to actually get good on a class.
I am not really understanding your complaint, because you basically had a problem with a couple guilds coordinating an attack on your force, but then bragged when your side did the same thing. I don’t really see the issue tbh, we get hit sometimes by enemy blobs of 3-4 guilds, we adjust strategy.
The problem is that no BG guilds seek solo fights, and they actively seek to blob guilds down instead of seeking even engagements. That is problematic and not “fight” culture.
This is ironic coming from YB that does exactly the same thing all the time.
Funny story from ocx time last night. YB have a huge ‘voltron’ blob of all their ocx guilds plus a lot of NA playing late k training around the desert BLs. We (SoX) were defending BG fire keep with 15 in our squad compared to their 35-40. They put up trebs and catas on north wall. We put up a counter treb and catas and take their siege down and drive them off. Next thing we know our commander is getting angry whispers from YB about using siege when we outnumbered them. We were just laughing our kitten off in TS at their delusion.
What? MMR is the ONLY indicator how good you are, regardless of division you end up in.
Hence why opponents should be based on mmr hence why there are so many lopsided uncompetitive matches right up to diamond.
BG and JQ are relatively even. BG has a stronger NA than JQ, JQ is stronger than BG during SEA. Both servers are non-existent during EU prime. I’ve never played oceanic so I can’t speak for that.
With most of Dawn seemingly leaving for BDO, JQ oceanic is probably the strongest except for when a certain commander decides to play for 3-4 days straight.
No, not remove safe pips. That would be very unpopular. Removing MMR drops on safe pip spots, basically freeze your progress like a save point, that would be a much smarter decision.
Basing opponents on mmr instead of pip range would be even smarter.
Funny thing is, if BG or JQ started “playing the game” and “using the tools” anet provided the same way yb does, yb would be crying all over the forums.
And you know this how?
Well YB started to cry about a 2v1 a few days ago.
Anyone else experiencing the same?
80% sounds about right, this season is largely uncompetitive.
I think they should get rid of the pvp badges or at least allow us to turn them off.
Its terrible, a bad copy of the Warhammer 40K space marine armour.
No
And every other post from every other user in this forum disagrees with you as well, Including pro players points of views on how the league/division system works.
Sorry, gonna prove you wrong with the “every other post from every other user” part, lol.
You’ve proved nothing except that you’re a high mmr player who got gifted a ride to legendary.
Is that really your excuse?
What am I trying to find an excuse for? I’m an average player, nothing more, I know I can’t get beyond ruby or diamond so no not making excuses. The fact is no proof has been provided.
the majority of players are not good, as a huge part (and flaw) of human nature they will naturaly seek excuses instead of admitting that they should improve and thus they will agree with anything that allows them to stick with their excuses and cling into any sort of vague proof which makes them think they are not bad
No you’re just making assumptions you don’t have any actual proof that it is the case. You apparently rode to legend on the back of high mmr so anybody should be able to do it.
That Legendary Backpack has caused a massive issue. On the one hand, it’s nice to finally give PvPers a unique reward, for playing PvP. On the other hand, the PvEers that want it, are very frustrated that there’s a block between them and the backpack that they want.
[…]
All it takes is one look at the forums, so see that a lot of PvE players (and granted PvP players too), are incredibly annoyed about the block between them and the backpack. I’ve seen multiple PvE players stating things along the lines of “Once this is done, I’m going back to PvE and never stepping foot in PvP again”.So all the backpack will have achieved, is putting PvE players off PvP even more. So if the goal was to bring in the PvE players, to increase the PvP population….. I think this has done more harm than good. Unless of course next time there’s another “must have” item, that lures the PvEers back in to endure the mode they don’t like playing.
Not just PvE players but average PvP players as well. I’ve been primarily a WvW player with some PvP and yes I’m an average player I play with 300 ping from Aust and I’m not quite good enough to totally make up for it. The backpack has become a big draw for me along with the competition but the frustrations of matchmaking coupled with the grind are turning me off the mode. I don’t get good matches with players at the same level as me.
I’ve said it before that I may get it or may not but either way I’m finished playing PvP in this game because this system has completely turned me off the mode. Plus the fact that other options are coming out (Overwatch, Battleborn, maybe Paragon). Anet have zero insight into game player psychology.
But there is an argument to be made. We all know how the system should work.. and there is evidence that it does indeed work.
For example, if you compare player quality in legendary/diamond league with sapphire or emerald you will witness without a doubt a major difference in skill level. And that is the main purpose of the current system.
S1 with anti smurfing measures would have had the same result, it may have taken high mmr players slightly longer to get there is all, however judging from the complaints about ruby and diamond poor players are reaching higher divisions than they should under this system anyway.
The weight of anecdotal evidence is clear that the current system provides a much worse experience for players in the mid and lower divisions than S1 did. Most competitive games seem to use a system of matching both allies and enemies by mmr and this is logical. There may be issues in doing this in GW2 due to the relatively low pvp population and the long queues that may result for certain segments of the population. Given this the fairest system for all players seems to be something like they had in S1 but with added measures to prevent exploits like smurfing and class stacking.
anet really need to stop looking a overall statistical unless they have a statistic analyst doing that which i highly doubt they have
This is a key failing of not just anet but other mmo companies as well. They look at metrics but take them at face value and don’t do enough analysis of them.
forum bug 15 chars
I asked before but didn’t get an answer, what JQ guild moved to TC?
another one bites the dust
So you don’t want any competition?
Hi,
If one actually complains about getting stuck in emerald/sapphire then either:
1. You’re not even close , not even within 90%, of how good you claim to be.
2. You’re probanly running a PHIW build. Grab something close to a meta build.
3. You started playing yesterday.
4. You’re playing warrior
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong
Elia, I am skeptical that MM is the problem.
Why? There are a lot of players of players saying exactly the same thing.
That’s called a hive mentality and it isn’t always correct. MM is and has been doing what it is intended to do: force average players to stay down, while helping above average players climb faster.
Of course everyone having a bad experience is wrong and the players who were put on the good side of mmr are correct…….
It doesn’t put players of similar ability together or put enemy teams of similar ability in the same matches hence it is a failure. It results in streaks of losses that are too long leaving the players on the wrong side of that disheartened and quitting.
Elia, I am skeptical that MM is the problem.
Why? There are a lot of players of players saying exactly the same thing.
“Really difficult opponents” though, they will move on, you stand still, meaning you get less good opponents, which in turn will you let move on.
It has been repeatedly stated that this hasn’t been happening. The player flow from low divisions to high divisions is not even.
Looks like JQ’s SEA went to YB judging by YB’s activity in SEA.
This week a certain commander seems to be doing his trick of playing all day every day for several days.
This is just ridiculous. Now whole guild, from JQ, have left that server and gone to TC to push TC to T1 and let JQ drop. This is just fair weather type of WvW but the usual for these people who like to manipulate glicko. This basically says, to me, that glicko needs to be scrapped.
Which guild went to TC?
IMO BG is actually in more trouble than JQ. Unless JQ’s massive sea leaves, JQ will remain in t1. JQ’s issue is far easier to recruit for than BG’s issue.
You’re right that BG currently looks to be in a worse spot. However JQ does not have a massive SEA any more, most have left.
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If you have and aspirations to rally them, don’t bother. Transfer to a lower tier server and start pushing up.
I would say save your money and wait to see what the overhaul will do given it may move to an alliance system.
That is a concern BUT since it isn’t clear when or even if such a change will happen, its not worth waiting around when I could be potentially meeting people with a similar approach to the game. After all, any alliance formed from Blackgate isn’t likely to be to my liking.
In that case I’d say give up the game until the overhaul. The mode currently isn’t worth it.
If you have and aspirations to rally them, don’t bother. Transfer to a lower tier server and start pushing up.
I would say save your money and wait to see what the overhaul will do given it may move to an alliance system.
This is the server that was going to move en masse to another one 2 weeks ago?
I haven’t played since before the expansion came out so I just logged in to see my home server, Blackgate, losing by a mile when the opposite used to be true. And we’re losing to Yak’s Bend? WTF LOL! Did I wake up in the Twilight Zone or what? Where’s Beastgate?!
Well you know ONS et al moved to YB. So YB moved up to T1 and basically BG and JQ got tired of the PPT game after HOT whereas YB haven’t.
No
And every other post from every other user in this forum disagrees with you as well, Including pro players points of views on how the league/division system works.
Sorry, gonna prove you wrong with the “every other post from every other user” part, lol.
You’ve proved nothing except that you’re a high mmr player who got gifted a ride to legendary.
I’m not here to argue if s2 match making is skill based or not. If it works or not.
I just like to point out a few facts.
1. People post about loss streaks 20+ games long , this did not exist in s1.
2. People like to win, win = happy player , loss = unhappy player.
3.When you make someone unhappy enough they stop playing. I think making someone loss 20+ times in a row is a sure fire way to kitten that person off and quit.
4 As the ‘unskilled’ mass leave the ‘somewhat skilled’ player are now the ‘unskilled’
loop back to 1
5. As more and more people stop playing, que time gets longer and longer.
6. Short wait = happy player, long wait = unhappy player
7. Now the ‘skilled’ player are not happy any more because of long wait
loop back to 3.So whatever side you take on how s2 match making works , one thing is for sure, it’s killing gw2 pvp.
All great points +1 from me.
2. This is competitive play and not something where everyone should get a medal for participating. Although it’s easy enough where people can do that with enough time. Yes, everyone loves to win but in order for someone to do that, someone needs to lose.
This is actually a point in favour of the OP and why the S2 matchmaking is poor. For players to get long winning streaks the obverse must also occur. And as pointed out this wasn’t a complaint in S1.
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What I don’t get is if all these players are stuck in Ruby hell or whatever they call it and have only lost due to bad teammates why aren’t they being matched on the same teams? Eventually all you “good” Ruby players who are stuck will get out due to being on the same team as the other “good” Ruby players.
People have been saying this since the system was announced and its not happening. All divisions have good players running through them most of the time.
The lack of professionalism once again on display.
When people say they think the leagues should be grindable, do they mean they want the Legendary Backpack to be an item they can grind for, and not have to reach high ranks in PvP to obtain it?
If so, then it would seem the backpack is causing so much of the frustration of players that aren’t really into PvP, but doing it for the backpack. I can see that Anet are trying to draw in more people to PvP, but it seems to be doing more harm than good right now.
Yes a lot of it is about the backpack and yes it is doing far more damage to spvp than good, far far more. I and others in my guild have commented that the ranked season makes us feel so bad that we will get the backpack and then quit the mode entirely. And I’m not a newbie who started spvp with S1. I’ve got to dragon rank.
The achievements for the backpack should either have been just an accumulation of tasks that one can get just by playing ranked not dependent on the rank you get to or it should have been just for players who make legendary division. If the latter then I would know its out of reach and just play ranked for the sake of it and not have to grind pip after godkitten pip.
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I suspect the same, but how to solve it ?
Go back to S1 matchmaking with anti smurfing mechanisms
Karl is working specifically on WvW-focused skill balance.
Welp.
My personal reaction was more colourful but in essence that is exactly how I feel about it. Karl’s previous balance efforts have left a permanent … uh … impression.
It gets better it appears Karl is in charge of balance across the whole game
Funny how dev wastes his time to reply to people who generally dont want to improve in the game and blame their team and/or matchmaking, basically being in complete denial about their own poor performance
We’ve been through this before the vast majority of people complaining know they aren’t legendary material players.
if what you say is true then why people complain they cant progress or that they get matches they cant win? then they should understand that its all logical
Logic was that apparently all high ranked players would clear out of the lower divisions leaving players in their approximate right divisions, yet 4 weeks in and it still hasn’t happened.
What makes you think that way?
If you actually have a point to make then make it, preferably without an appeal to non existant authority.
Funny how dev wastes his time to reply to people who generally dont want to improve in the game and blame their team and/or matchmaking, basically being in complete denial about their own poor performance
We’ve been through this before the vast majority of people complaining know they aren’t legendary material players.
if what you say is true then why people complain they cant progress or that they get matches they cant win? then they should understand that its all logical
Logic was that apparently all high ranked players would clear out of the lower divisions leaving players in their approximate right divisions, yet 4 weeks in and it still hasn’t happened.
perhaps you should listen to a higher ranked player when he is talking about the state of game balance
Higher ranked players have a vested interest in maintaining this system which gives them a great advantage and therefore are biased towards it.
Funny how dev wastes his time to reply to people who generally dont want to improve in the game and blame their team and/or matchmaking, basically being in complete denial about their own poor performance
We’ve been through this before the vast majority of people complaining know they aren’t legendary material players.
At this rate I may never get the last tier to ruby, because I may just lose interest in the game completely. I suppose I should take a break and do something else and hope it gets better eventually, but when you’re that close it’s difficult to just give up and hope it gets better later. There’s no reason it should be this difficult getting one tier, especially when you have countless times when you’ve won 2 games in a row, need one final win, and somehow get placed into a group of people that either don’t know how to rotate, repeatedly die in mid, or have someone that just goes afk halfway through. It’s like the system just decides I’ve had enough wins and puts me in the worst possible group to put me right back to needing 3 wins again or 4 assuming I don’t just stay on a losing streak for 10 games of complete blowouts.
This is exactly what it feels like is happening to me.
The matches remain volatile because they were designed to be. Yes, in theory they would eventually balance out. I don’t think that a season is long enough for that to happen.
Meanwhile you also drive away the players who are being stomped.
The current matchmaking system is based on a sound theory. However, that theory will not work in this instance. There are not enough players, motivation or time for the balancing out to happen.
I dunno I think it could work if players were put into divisions corresponding to their skill at the start and if the mmr was a reflection of a players skill. But anet won’t start players in advanced divisions because it would muck up their achievement grind and the mmr is based on team not individual performance and is therefore not reliable.
Im sorry Evan, but if this is supposed to be where the majority of players should be, then why are at least 70% of the matches totally frustrating to everybody?
And please, tell me, why did I get to ruby on one account and got stuck there, whereas on another Im now nearly through Diamond?
Where exactly am I supposed to be now… ruby hell or nearly legendary?
Matches should not be volatile when you are in your ‘correct’ division, ideally. I think that is a definite area to improve on. As to why your two accounts are different, I can’t say without digging into your account histories.
Clearly his 2 accounts will have differing mmrs and given the way the system has been set up will lead to differing experiences on each account which will in turn exacerbate the difference in the mmr on the 2 accounts. There have been a ton of similar stories on here
@ Evan Lesh
Yes, rewards absolutely need to be grindable.
No, they don’t. The wings should only be accessible to players of the highest caliber.
That may be what you would like to be the case but its not how anet have set up the achievements and indeed across the whole game legendaries are meant to be obtained by anyone if you want to grind enough.
I admit that I’m surprised by the tone of your post. You seem to imply that the season and matchmaking are going well.
Yes this worries me as well. There’s been constant feedback that its not the case and I thought based on the reddit AMA that they had got the message. Oh well there are good games starting up in the next few months, if the next season doesn’t have the changes needed I will happily migrate to those games.
This is very simple, its not a reward track. It’s a rank system, and technically works. Sapphire/Ruby should have your most average players with a close-to 50% win rate in that division, making it hard to work out of, but not fall too far back, too.
.
Up to ruby it is actually essentially a reward track.
What would make legendary players happy to keep playing the game? Is it just quicker queue times? What if you could do other things while waiting? What if there was something other than leagues all together like unranked arena that legendary players could go to until more players make it to legendary?
How about asking the question what would make all the ranked players happy to keep playing the game, cause right now I am disheartened and completely de-motivated by the system. Its making me hate spvp.
Why are you disheartened? Is it the inconsistency of match quality?
Pretty much. I have been in Tier 5 of emerald for almost 2 weeks now, although I haven’t played since Sunday (when I had 9 losses in a row) cause it was affecting me so badly I had to take a break. Its basically I keep getting 1-2 wins then have a succession of losses. After 1-2 wins I seem to: get placed with players who were in the teams I beat; players who are simply not very good; or get matched against teams who clearly have a significantly better mmr to the team I get matched with. This has happened consistently. I have tried grouping with others, I have tried playing stronghold rather than conquest, nothing has worked to get me to the next tier. Its grindy and the constant backsliding across a relatively long period is disheartening.
Maybe you could accept that you hit a wall because you’re not good enough yet. Instead of focusing on your team’s skill, you should focus on your own gameplay and try to improve as you can always improve even if you’re the best GW2 player. You will also have more fun this way, because at least you won’t be focusing on negative thoughts.
I made ruby last season and probably could have gone diamond if I pushed it. I recognise that I am an average player, but I am also clearly able to recognise that I keep getting matched with players who are not on the same skill level. I know how to rotate, I know how to play the secondary objectives, I use builds similar to the meta builds etc. In this final tier of emerald I keep getting matched with players who clearly know none of that, players who on nifhel for example all go straight to the beast. So no what you state is not correct. Whats disheartening is that as I said this happens without fail as soon as I get 1 or 2 wins. The volatility is just ridiculous and it makes me wonder if there are bugs in the matchmaking.
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