Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.
At the top end it may be aligning better but I and others would dispute that around the middle and lower end it is. It assumes mmr is a good measure of skill, that players with a similar mmr are of a similar skill level, that players get a good number of matches against players of a similar skill level, none of which appears to be true. And also discounts the effect of poor team comps. The majority of matches are not close.
Its clear that matching opponents only by pip range is a complete failure and there must be mmr matching as well going forward. Heck someone else suggested matching teammates by pip range and opponents purely by average mmr of the team would be more worthwhile.
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What would make legendary players happy to keep playing the game? Is it just quicker queue times? What if you could do other things while waiting? What if there was something other than leagues all together like unranked arena that legendary players could go to until more players make it to legendary?
How about asking the question what would make all the ranked players happy to keep playing the game, cause right now I am disheartened and completely de-motivated by the system. Its making me hate spvp.
Why are you disheartened? Is it the inconsistency of match quality?
Pretty much. I have been in Tier 5 of emerald for almost 2 weeks now, although I haven’t played since Sunday (when I had 9 losses in a row) cause it was affecting me so badly I had to take a break. Its basically I keep getting 1-2 wins then have a succession of losses. After 1-2 wins I seem to: get placed with players who were in the teams I beat; players who are simply not very good; or get matched against teams who clearly have a significantly better mmr to the team I get matched with. This has happened consistently. I have tried grouping with others, I have tried playing stronghold rather than conquest, nothing has worked to get me to the next tier. Its grindy and the constant backsliding across a relatively long period is disheartening.
What Evan is saying is they peed off everyone else to make you happy. But you miserable kittens are never happy. Maybe you could have a psychotherapy vendor in HotM.
Heck low ranked players need that one as well with the constant up and backs within tiers.
Actually, the maps are PRO-STATEGY if you really look at it. Pinch points, to kill incoming forces, Land Height differences, that allow better siege placement (by that I mean trebs and catas), etc. I mean real war is based on land that HAS 3 dimensions, not just a flat plain with potholes for altitude changes. I mean if altitude didn’t matter in RL wars and battles, then the Golan Heights would not be held by Israel, it is that simple.
The DBL lacks strategic flow ie there is no strategic reason to capture the towers its only for PPT. What you are talking about is more the tactical side of the map. The problem here is that the map overdoses on such elements, too many choke points, too much height change. Too many paths that allow groups to bypass each other to take objectives, rather than fighting, rather than leading to common areas for larger fights.
Somehow, people are really convinced that the ABL were full prior to the expansion. Like… they somehow missed the idea that it was in a steady decline.
The issue is that the HOT expansion took a large chunk of those that normally WvW and redirected them away for a time. This gave the impression that the DBL was empty, especially due to its size. This spiraled out of control in perception. Perception is everything. It was perceived that the DBL was the reason that WvW was dying because people forget that WvW was dying, prior. So people huddled up on EB, because it was safe and comfortable.
This is actually not right and you see it in some of the complaints here. A large numbers of players actively do not want to go to the DBL maps. I see it in map chat and hear it on TS.
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Bad play, I need to “l2p”, horrible matchmaking, even when i win 2 in a row I get placed with 4 first timers for the 3rd game. AFK’s and people who do not know what they are doing.
I mentioned this in another thread, same thing has been happening to me. After 2 wins I get placed with those I lost against or others who don’t know how to play and this has been happening without fail. I have to wonder if this is a bug in the matchmaking.
What would make legendary players happy to keep playing the game? Is it just quicker queue times? What if you could do other things while waiting? What if there was something other than leagues all together like unranked arena that legendary players could go to until more players make it to legendary?
How about asking the question what would make all the ranked players happy to keep playing the game, cause right now I am disheartened and completely de-motivated by the system. Its making me hate spvp.
@Deniara Devious.3948 You will be doing Season 1 mistake again and making it into a grind. The entire point of Season 2 was to stop everyone from getting to legendary. I am sorry to sound like a jerk but this is the reality; not everyone is suppose to be able to reach diamond / legendary.
S2 is a grind for the majority of players. God forbid you precious legendary players grind a little bit more. The anti smurfing mechanisms were enough to stop players being carried to legendary.
You belong there. A tier system like the game has now isn’t there so everyone will hit legendary just by grinding. If you are “stuck” in a division where your games go 50/50 you belong there. The sense behind a tier system is that you should get into a division where you get matched against people your skill and win/lose 50% of your matches. You aren’t stuck in ruby – you belong in ruby. You aren’t stuck in sapphire – you belong in sapphire. I don’t understand how this can be so hard to understand.
I don’t understand how you cannot listen to what people are saying. People are losing and being stuck with players below their own skill level and are being stuck playing against entire teams of as higher mmr across long streaks of matches because the system doesn’t mm match enemies and a players mmr has become distorted to such an extent that it doesn’t reflect their skill level.
Just on the matchmaking after a win streak, I and others have noticed something similar. Only for me it appears more extreme. Every time I have 2 wins in a row for at least the last 3 weeks I then get put with either some of the losing team I played against or other players with mmr that would have to be significantly worse than the teams I got the win with. Reading your post it almost strikes me that this could be a bug in the matchmaking system, and it could be a factor leading to long loss streaks. It would be a far better system that keeps a winning team together as was done in GW1.
I don’t know why, but people so far in Ruby seem to be generally worse at PvP than the people in sapphire were. Holy kitten some of the garbage I have seen. I am not a pro by any means but by this point I’d kind of expect people to have some kind of clue about rotating and not doing stupid kitten.
So garbage quality players have been carried yet again but there are still good players stuck in sapphire and emerald because they keep getting poor quality teammates
I have to say the post from Mike worries me even though I appreciate the communication. It makes me wonder what they’ve been doing for the last 18 months, of course a large part of that was the DBL, but what about since HOT? It worries me that they may rush the developments that they consider player priorities from that thread. And what about the player priorities from John Corpening’s communications and discussions and even the CDis going back further.
If they wanted further feedback why not gather it before, maybe once HOT was received so poorly. It seems very late now to be possibly changing course.
We’re investigating whether to fix or revert DBL. They’re both a lot of work. These next couple days will be your last chance to give feedback before we make a decision, so speak now or forever hold your peace.
Thanks for the response, I understood from the reddit AMA that you were already working on revising the DBL. Having a rotation of a fixed DBL and the ABL updated for current mechanisms would be ideal.
I also hope you aren’t putting population balance on the backburner. And by population balance I hope you mean not just the off hours capping issue but also overall world population and that you are looking at dynamic solutions like a server alliance solution. Because the overall population is so low that the mode needs some sort of dynamic way to adjust for that whilst maintaining enjoyable competitive play.
Make the skyhammer do less damage.
The matchmaking and pip system and grind make me hate pvp.
Another blaming matchmaking and qq’s when they don’t have an easy ride to legend.
How refreshing.
I’m not saying Im pro and I should be legend.
kitten Legend actually because it doesnt reflect skill after all.All I ask is for balanced matchmaking, doesnt matter if I lose or win.
Aslong its not a 300 point difference where most AFK the first 3-5 mins already so nothing can be learned from it, except matchmaking is not working as it should be.That’s good then you are not like most people whining.
The majority of people complaining about the matchmaking in S2 do not think they should be in the legendary division.
I agree that wholesale changes need to be made but if they get rid of pips they also need to completely redo the ascension achievements, especially given they want all legendaries to be able to be crafted by anyone if they grind long enough.
I’ve said it elsewhere but IMO they should go back to S1 matchmaking with the added anti smurfing measures and no class stacking.
So, what i think we can do is either we really put some efforts to learn some skills or we will have to wait for some times to let all the “better” players to move up to higher tiers or take a break after a win or 2, let your mmr rise abit and then continue the game and repeat which may eventually get you to team up with “better” players.
MMR is dynamic it should rise directly after a win. I;ve tried taking breaks after wins and losses and it doesn’t work.
I mean, he is right if he wants even matches, but why should the matches be even in a league?
let’s put all footbal teams in the same division. Let’s call it amber division. During the season, all the teams have the chance to reach legendary division, but, here’s the catch, Barcelona only gets to play against Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, and PSG. Meanwhile, Swansea gets to play against third division teams…. from Central Asia.
At the end of the season, Swansea is up there with Barcelona, while Real Madrid is still in amber trying to beat Chelsea…. Fair, right?
The analogy doesn’t apply because we are talking about individual players teaming up not team against team. And the league is essentially supposed to be just a reward track up until ruby at which point the good players get sorted from the bad. We are meant to be able to get to ruby even if we are poor players, just by grinding.
The way the matchmakings been set up this season its looking like this won’t even be possible. I’ve spent 9 days now in the final tier of emerald going up and back unable to progress, I’ve grouped with players (in the ETS guild), I’ve gone solo, I’ve done both stronghold and conquest and nothing works. Yesterday I had 9 losses no wins. And yet I know how to play the mode I know how to rotate and play the secondary objectives, I can win 1v1s against most classes.
The issue must be the rng has been poor for me in terms of teams I get matched up against leading to my mmr going downward which further exacerbates the issue leading to the situation I’m now in. Several times I’ve got to within 1 pip of sapphire only to then get match with players who don’t know how to play, without fail this has happened every time. Why?
Stop playing theif problem solved
Okay, then explain this. Rumor has it, necro is one of the strongest classes in the game for pvp.
Doesn’t matter with the class people are playing, it’s basically RNG when you reach Ruby in SoloQ this season…
Im in emerald.
my god, with such a losing streak, on emerald, at this time, what do you expect? you will get bots and worse on your team. Just find at least one decent player and teamup with him. You will start winning games and your mmr will eventually recover but, after losing so much, it will take time.
Emerald here as well, you clearly have no idea what is happening in the tier.
It’s been weeks the pvp league has started and i see that there are lot of people QQing about the lose streak and the system. I’m in lose streak too but i’m good with the system.
Why would you be good with the system if it teams you with players like this if you consider yourself better?
Ranked queues are increasing at lower levels as well, this season is a complete bust due to the poor matchmaking
Dev stated that losing game does not lower your mmr
Losing a game against significantly higher rated opponents does not, not any games. If your opponent has an mmr close to yours you will lose mmr. Problem is this takes no account of team comp.
At this point I would wait to see what the overhaul is rather than resort to such drastic action. What I would also do is send an email to Gaile Gray as she seems to be collecting info and presenting it to the Devs and Gaile is always a sympathetic ear.
You don’t want to reset MMR…. The algorithm is attempting to estimate the relative skill of all the players, by resetting it you put every single player in the same pool for games.
And so what? Good players will still rise, mmr will change, perhaps if it is reset narrow the mmr range for groups because the range across all players will be more narrow. The fact is mmr currently does not properly reflect the skill level of probably most players.
I just left T1 myself because of YB’s absolute, total victory. Was getting hard to find any BG or JQ to fight.
Well you have YBs poisonous attitude to thank for that. Funny how they still maintain it even now, last night ocx time FOW was still at it backcapping with a huge zerg when they had already won the week.
But here’s the thing that really bothers me with season 2:
My main account gets pretty much always matched against teams with more good players.
My second account gets nearly always matched against worse players.
And it has gotten WORSE since season start because player pool got smaller and smaller and smaller.So basically, if your mmr is kittened, your skills dont count anymore. You have uphill battles to get on good side of mmr that are just plain impossible to make through without teaming up with good players.
If your mmr isnt kittened, your skills do count a little bit, but you dont need to expand much effort to keep on the good side of matchmaking.So yeah, we DEFINITELY need a mmr reset AND a pre-season.
Or we need a system that limits the mmr difference between teams.
Quoted for truth and emphasis. This is exactly the situation my main account finds itself in.
They had a matchmaking system in S1 that they have worked and iterated on for the life of the game. I know there were complaints about the 50/50 win rate and the pip system but right now those complaints look trivial compared to the mess S2 is. So restore S1 system and add in the ant smurfing measures and the win and lose streak bonuses. Good players still had win streaks in S1.
Just to add to this after suffering through 2 more losses. MMR should also be reset. Its based on team performance and therefore is highly suspect as a measure of individual performance. And it also takes no account of team composition. Add both of these together and after the anecdotal evidence of this season that players of similar mmr are not likely to be of the same skill level it should be reset each season so at least everybody starts on an even playing field.
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1 win away from Diamond, then system decides to put me with the worst players ever… no words to describe it. On top of it, it puts with them again and again even if I try and wait it out. Solo que is terrible.
Try being emerald just 1 or 2 wins away from sapphire and have that happen every kittening time for over 7 days , every single kittening time.
I’m not a good player. I’m trying to improve and I am getting better but I am in Emerald and I deserve to be in Emerald. The problem is, most of the other people who deserve to be in Emerald seem to have quit.
My match making for the last week or so has put me with the same few people both consistently on my team and on the opposing team. 4-6 Matches in a row with the same 2-3 people on my team. Opposing the same core team that flogs us again and again. Solo queing as T1 Emerald i’m facing Solo Q Saphires.
There are a few problems with this:
1. There are good players who are getting stuck playing with people like me again and again as they only have 1-2 MMR matches in team line up they get stuck.
2. Playing unwinable matches constantly is demoralising and causes more players to leave making the player pool much smaller still. This means next season you have a smaller player pool to spread amongst the ranks and better players will be stuck in lower leagues.
Now please be clear this isn’t a “QQ Y NO BACKPACK” post, I don’t think I should be able to progress out of Emerald. But I do want fair match ups. This far into the season the imbalance in lower tiers should have been soughted out, but it hasn’t. I would just like to put this out here for Anet to see. Without a base you can’t build a pyramid and with out bad players to fill the lower ranks you can’t push all the better players up.
Yes i’ve tried playing at different times (similar results i’ve tried from 2pm PST -> 9AM PST).
Yes i’ve tried leaving it a few days and coming back.
Yes i’ve tried queing with friends, most are better then me (High Saphire – Ruby) and I don’t want to drag them down.
Yes i’ve tried partying people I worked well with, we then get matched against tougher 4-5 man premades. Because 2 man pre is the same as a 5 man pre.
Yes I know unranked is there.
Yes I know I need to learn to play and get better.
I hope Anet can figure out a better system for soughting players into tiers next season, but I’m not sure how many of us who deserve to be at the bottom will be back after this season.
T1 Emerald vs Sapphire? I don’t think that should be happening.
If the pool is smaller the pip search window will widen.
In addition to the small player pool, the “pro” players are playing on alts to get matches. This means they stomp there way through the divisions again. So, they compound the problems that got them slow matches to begin with.
This would explain why there are still a lot of blowouts. Queue times in lower levels are now 4.5 minutes, they have essentially doubled in the last week. The game at lower levels is getting unsustainable.
what professions are you playing ?
whats holding you back ?
most casual players should be able to reach ruby even if they play 3 ranked games per day.
Not with this matchmaking they can’t.
I think its pretty clear from feedback on this forum that the community wants reset back on a Friday at the same time it was before for NA servers. I certainly vote to put it back to this time.
This isn’t to do with HOT specifically but the game development seemed to me to take a u-turn at or soon after launch and reading Colin’s goodbye message I think I know the reason why its when he swapped from being a game designer to being game director. I think the game design lost something when he moved. Yes he was still overseeing game design but its different.
It never seems to work for us at all, cant believe they haven’t fixed it yet.
So will those affected get their pips that they missed out on?
And probably one in around five players will stay and play spvp even after getting the rewards done. Simply because he got into the spirit of the competitiveness of spvp.
I like PvP, like it in all mmos I play I like the competitiveness of it. However this system makes me hate PvP in GW2. In all probability I will get the wings then put spvp down and never set foot in it again as a result. And its nothing to do with the grinding aspect.
I was specifically talking about ocx, thats all, right from my first comment. Other timezones of course it doesn’t happen.
You might think that, Aezyr, but I’m betting that people would spread out as otherwise there’s nobody to fight. Most of us have moved on from ppt; it’s not 2013 anymore. We want to fight, and if… say… all of the OCX lumped into one alliance, they would be PvDooring, and aint nobody find that fun.
Oh my goodness, tell me you’re being facetious!
Because history has proved that players won’t “spread out” to get fights — they’re not going to magically start spreading out with any new system. EU has done it to some extent, but not NA. It’s why there’s existing problems now.
That’s a bit naive if you believe this though and shows that you don’t really understand the playerbase.
As an ocx player I wouldn’t want all ocx lumped into 1 server/alliance so yes the player base could spread out so long as its an appropriate number of servers for the entire player base.
Then why aren’t you doing that now? Or heck, even three years ago? You most certainly don’t need a new WvW system to accomplish this. This is a player-organized thing that can easily be done.
T1 ocx is fairly balanced ATM if thin in terms of numbers.
Ok that’s three servers .. what about the rest?
Or only OCX matters?
You’re evading answering that regardless of what system Anet puts into place, players will game the system, bandwagon, or just quit playing.
No new system is going to magically fix this.
Not dodging anything, if my guild is in a situation that is somewhat balanced why would we move?
I do feel that the current balance is in the hands of Karl alone. But maybe I’m wrong.
Roy pretty much stated in teh AMA that Karl is in charge of the balance team we don’t know how many are on the team but I would think its small. Roy is definitely not on it any more.
You might think that, Aezyr, but I’m betting that people would spread out as otherwise there’s nobody to fight. Most of us have moved on from ppt; it’s not 2013 anymore. We want to fight, and if… say… all of the OCX lumped into one alliance, they would be PvDooring, and aint nobody find that fun.
Oh my goodness, tell me you’re being facetious!
Because history has proved that players won’t “spread out” to get fights — they’re not going to magically start spreading out with any new system. EU has done it to some extent, but not NA. It’s why there’s existing problems now.
That’s a bit naive if you believe this though and shows that you don’t really understand the playerbase.
As an ocx player I wouldn’t want all ocx lumped into 1 server/alliance so yes the player base could spread out so long as its an appropriate number of servers for the entire player base.
Then why aren’t you doing that now? Or heck, even three years ago? You most certainly don’t need a new WvW system to accomplish this. This is a player-organized thing that can easily be done.
T1 ocx is fairly balanced ATM if thin in terms of numbers.
Almost certainly PvE only sigils…
…but the fact that these sigils that are not only not confirmed to ever be added, nor is there any proof this will make it to PvP won’t stop people from losing their kitten over this.
Spot on they won’t be in pvp for sure. I’ll look forward to using them in WvW though.
1. Queuing outside HOTM or give us more to do in HOTM.
2. Fix ranked matchmaking so we play with and against players of similar mmr.
3. Players begin a ranked season in a division corresponding to their finish in the previous season. Rework crossing division achievements as a result of this.
4. No more than 2 of the same class allowed on a team.
5. Higher focus on balance.
5. More variety in amulets needed with the removal of several amulets.
1. Population along with population imbalance. Too many servers for too small a total WvW population. Solution would be a server alliance system.
2. Reason/motivation to fight and score
3. Scoring system even with PPK encourages PvDing too much.
4. Get rid of artificial PvE elements from the BL and the tactics which make it too easy to defend. This includes the popup rocks, and OP tactics like the airship, chilling fog, banners, hardened gates and siege………. Environmental obstacles should be organic.
5. Revise desert BL to make it simpler but more strategic and bring back something like the ruins from the alpine BL for the desert BL
6. Rotate Alpine and desert BLs
7. Stability needs to be revised to make melee more viable, you probably don’t want to go back to the old stability but a solution needs to be found.
8. WvW Reward tracks including WvW legendary backpiece.
9. Make game mode self sustaining ie being able to buy foods and oils with badges so WvW can be played without PvE.
10. Nerf siege damage to players, need to encourage groups to actually fioght each other once siege has breached an objective.
11. Proofs of heroics account bound
12. An autoloot WvW mastery
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This is kind of a shame to hear, one less mission doable for my team.
But glad to hear it’s no longer going to be an issue for future guilds.
Any particular reason for its removal? Or was it due to this bug?
It was in the AMA. Its due to the event not being used as they expected.
I wanted to give some feedback, glad to see a thread on the actual gw2 forums with a red. (This coming from someone who worked into sapphire and almost done)
Matchmaking is fine (once you play up to your league). But leading up to that, you will have such bad games, most players will want to quit. I did, I was so tired of 37-500, 60-500, etc games. They are beyond boring. Now, I haven’t had a game where the enemy didn’t score at least 200 points, and many 4XX-500 games. The matches have gotten a lot more competitive as I move up the league.
So the problem is the season start. It was terrible, so here are my suggestions:
1) Keep league rewards, but seperate them from divisions. We need a pip based reward track that simply tracks our wins and losses and gives us rewards in the exact same way as now. This goes with part two.
2) Players start next season close to their current division.
Amber -> Amber
Emerald -> Amber
Sapphire -> Emerald
Ruby -> Sapphire
Diamond -> Sapphire
Legend ->SapphireThanks.
I could not agree more.
Only problem with the the whole “putting people in different divisions at the start” is that it would totally screw over anybody trying to get the “cross x league divisions” achievements, you have to cross a division a total of 10 times,
Yes they would have to rework those achievements. No reason they couldn’t though.
You might think that, Aezyr, but I’m betting that people would spread out as otherwise there’s nobody to fight. Most of us have moved on from ppt; it’s not 2013 anymore. We want to fight, and if… say… all of the OCX lumped into one alliance, they would be PvDooring, and aint nobody find that fun.
Oh my goodness, tell me you’re being facetious!
Because history has proved that players won’t “spread out” to get fights — they’re not going to magically start spreading out with any new system. EU has done it to some extent, but not NA. It’s why there’s existing problems now.
That’s a bit naive if you believe this though and shows that you don’t really understand the playerbase.
As an ocx player I wouldn’t want all ocx lumped into 1 server/alliance so yes the player base could spread out so long as its an appropriate number of servers for the entire player base.
There are not many posts,
Since HOT there have been many threads on it with exactly the same issues.
You had a duo queue in your team that means you could face a full premade.
Lol, I thoguht Anet was actually getting better with balancing since HoT. Guess not.
Dunno where you got that idea. The period after HOT until the January update was the worst balance ever. Its slightly better now but there are still a lot of issues.
Besides this post there have been a lot of posts about it on this forum since HOT launched. I’ve personally experienced the bugs with my glider not opening, with mordy not taking damage near the end of the fight once you get rid of his break bar where you have to kill yourself to reset him and with Brahams shield not working.
Random posts aren’t proof. That would be like taking the word of every conspiracy theorist you came across.
Yes but when there are many posts with the same problems………
What do you want? Screenshots? This is an internet forum not a court of law.
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