Guild Wars 2

Yes. You will get advanced to 14.
Yes. You will get the tier 2 dailies as your personal level is 10 and above.

Improve the dungeon? Well for starters, make the final bosses for path 1 and 3 drop those 15 silvers and wondrous bags.

Even so I still run SE path 1/3 now and then.

Here’s my Mesmer:

Mantle: Arah
Chest & Pants: Crafted (Winged)
Legs & Hands: CoF
Head (Hidden): CoE

Maybe I can direct you to here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Arah-Vets-grouping-together-to-do-Arah-Runs/page/5#post1777898

I have gotten 2 invites from this thread including path 4. The teams were very helpful. Chill and competent. Even when things went wrong (npc bugged), they didnt mind trying again.

But then again 2 runs are hardly any guarantee that you might not get a negative experience. Doesn’t hurt to try.

Thats really unfortunate. Even if developers increased the kick-vote count, it will not help you in this case. For the few times I did Arah 4, I was silently bracing myself for the possibility that I could be kicked after Dwayna.

Riis.7615:

mosspit.8936:

Lol it isn’t as simple as being informative on your part. What I mentioned, however redundant as you may think it is, is a drawback which you failed to mention in your biased stance on MF. As many mentioned, it is a stat that only benefit your self.

Condescending tone aside, more power leads to faster runs for the MF independent loot from chest and guaranteed completion rewards. So on the “enjoying gettng nothing most of the time for more power” part isn’t as absolute as you think from the Time vs Rewards scheme of things

The only biased one here is you. I offered tips to make up for the lost stat, explained how the possibilities work and what you can gain from it, and all you say is that you fear that 1000 points of your strongest attack is going to make you take an extra minute in a boss fight after which you skipped every part of the game to save just 5 minutes of your time otherwise you will cry about it in even the easiest dungeon in the game. Grow out of it already! I did an Arah explorable run with a party of newbies (myself included) and greens. We beat it, and that was the hardest dungeon I ever did, and you’re going to tell me how much it matters to have optimal DPS in even AC or whatever place you had in mind? Geeze, never mind the support and tanks who will suffer from having magic find more than the DPS. Just never mind the support that keeps you and the party from bleeding to death, but oh right, that’s not nearly an issue a lot of the time since every challenge in this game is swept off easy like an exit 2 feet behind you with the hard part entirely optional. Somehow, the you think you can just tear down this whole thing just by that weak “it don’t benefit the team” counter argument without even trying to pull apart anything I said. Not to mention telling me that I fail to understand something I had clearly wrote to you. If that’s the best you could do, then I was wasting my time with you. This had already gotten stupid and I’m not sticking around to see where you go with this if you even get anywhere at all as you brilliantly shown here (in other words, you are getting nowhere with your point and I don’t think you will be).

Haven’t you ever thought about what you can do with that money? I don’t know, maybe help out the guild? Of course you haven’t by what you’re are saying. I wouldn’t be surprised if you bought no guild influence either.

I’m not writing this again, and I had enough with you.

Do you want 9 drops per 15 minutes? Or over 36 per 20 minute? The differences are clear. You get either get less for more time, or you get more for less time. Just try to figure out how that math works. If you never gotten that much when you tried, then you did something wrong or you just got unlucky, either way doesn’t matter to me. While I’m getting my bags full after almost every dungeon group I run, sometimes before they were over, you along with the bandwagon you ride will be sitting around burning more time for little to nothing.

And an hour ago, I racked up 4Gs worth of materials, gear, and one of them got me a quarter of the amount in Fractals of the Mist 7-9 (because the people I went with were that level, and recruiting has been SLOW)!

Bye

Still holding on to your condescending guns I see lol. Nah Im fine with however you wanna play. You are seem to be the one that is parading your tips like they were needed to be used by everyone and they are are a fool if they are not using them. In fact, create your own MF CoF1 party.

I understand maths and probability just fine. Similar to others in this thread. That is why we advise against MF. And MF does not in anyway help your fellow teammates despite your fruitless attempts to explain how you “carried” parties. Even if that is true, it is certainly not because of what MF does. But unfortunately you are too hoplessly delusional to realize it yourself.

Riis.7615:

As opposed to what?
I did write “not trying to spoon feed ALL of it” for a reason. ^^

Whether or not you fail to understand even something as simple as that isn’t really my problem. Like I mentioned twice now. I’m enjoying getting tons of material, gear, rare items included to sell, because this works.

Lol it isn’t as simple as being informative on your part. What I mentioned, however redundant as you may think it is, is a drawback which you failed to mention in your biased stance on MF. As many mentioned, it is a stat that only benefit your self.

Riis.7615:

If you run a dungeon for your small speed runs and will cry about the small time it will take to steamroll the dungeon, then AGAIN, you do NOT have any business wasting your time and efforts in getting magic find when you do not fight the trash! If you did do this with your magic find character, then why? Why waste everyone’s time when you also do not want to make more loot? Why raise your loot chance, when you enjoy getting nothing most of the time for more power???

Condescending tone aside, more power leads to faster runs for the MF independent loot from chest and guaranteed completion rewards. So on the “enjoying gettng nothing most of the time for more power” part isn’t as absolute as you think from the Time vs Rewards scheme of things

Pretty good advice. Up is overall the shortest path. Fwd/Fwd is potentially as short if you skip trash. Fwd/Up is also easy if you know what you know…. problem is quite a number of ppl I encountered are spoilt by the branch glitch so they get frustrated when they have approach the boss the normal way.

Riis.7615:

mosspit.8936:

You forget to mention that magic find only benefits the wearer and brings absolutely nothing to group effectiveness in dungeons.

I’m not trying to spoon feed all of this for you. That part it totally redundant.

As opposed to spoonfeeding your previous crap that is redundant? Good job.

Shiren.9532:

This thread isn’t about permission to skip or run, it’s a discussion. If you want to participate in a discussion about skipping or fighting and whether or not something needs to be done about it, looking at why people run dungeons, why people skip content and all the things that are a part of that are essential to having a meaningful discussion. Simply saying “I like skipping” or “I choose to skip” adds very little value to the discussion. Why do you like skipping? Why do you choose to skip?

I respect your reasons to run your dungeons the way you want. Can you respect my reasons?

Shiren.9532:

Choice is not a reason for something to exist. Allowing people to duplicate ecto or allowing them to farm it via drops does not support the existence of duplicating ecto. I admit there isn’t a direct parallel between duplicating (which is an exploit) as opposed to skipping mobs (recognise as a viable approach, if not the desired or intended one). I want to demonstrate to you that choice alone is not good enough. The choices should be appropriate. Wanting a choice to exist does not justify its existence.

I’ll repeat it because this is where I believe this conversation needs to go (instead of empty statements or peripheral arguments). Note these are questions (I’m not saying skipping causes inflation, I’m asking what impact does skipping have on inflation compared with fighting – think of access to tokens as well as gold).

Critically look at what a dungeon is, what it’s supposed to be (the content it offers, the role if fulfils in the game) and look at skipping. How does skipping impact on all those things? How does it impact on run times? On inflation? Does it take over the meta and squeeze out other approaches to the dungeon? Does it make the dungeon less rewarding for people who don’t participate in skipping? Does it make some paths less desirable than others? What kind of gameplay experience does it offer? Is this the appropriate arena or medium to offer that experience? Does that experience come at an opportunity cost for other experiences? What does skipping add to the game? Does skipping provide the experience intended when creating dungeons? How does skipping impact on dungeon balance? Is it a group challenge or an individual challenge done in a group?

Despite you acknowledging that ecto duplicating is an exploit, you still compare that to skipping to enforce that “Choice is not a reason for something to exist.” That is where we differ, because I believe in existence of Choice. It enables ppl to play the way they want.

As for inflation and economy impacts and the questions that follow, you should ask John Smith. To me, it is a sign that you want to prove your point by overextending into boundaries beyond dungeons themselves. If you bring in the economy into the picture, be prepared to discuss the economy in its entirety instead of just prodding questions.

Shiren.9532:

The thing we disagree on the most her is you think it’s as simple as you preferring one thing from another. I don’t think the situation is that simple. It’s much more complex than your bottom line or lowest common denominator. Until people can see it that way and discuss it for what it is, the problems won’t get any better. This is an MMO, most of the actions you take in the game have an impact on others and the wider community in general, especially when involves the economy.

No. If you are thinking of economy, you are are thinking of Risk/Time vs Rewards. As such you should be thinking of incentivizing trash. Doing it this way still allows ppl to skip when they want if they want.

As a side note, skipping the trash in Up path is much easier than skipping the trash in F/F. Up path has a few spiders and other mobs which spawn as you enter their area (so they spend most of their time falling from the ceiling rather than attacking right away). There is one group of Nightmare Courtiers I believe and they are in a wide open area with a cliff shortly afterwards (kind of like a hard counter to aggro) and thus relatively easy to skip (the archers do so little damage, if someone is downed you can usually res them while being attacked). In F/F you have several more groups of Nightmare Courtiers (with knockdowns and fears in addition to massive damage, unlike the spiders), chained after each other in a continuous winding path filled with blossoms. The run is longer with more dangerous mobs. Comparing one to the other isn’t exactly fair.

Actually I gave the Fwd/Fwd path as an example precisely because it has more trash. I was hoping to show you that I can be more willing to kill trash but it seems you went and take it the wrong way. For the record, I also done it the reverse – killing trash in Up Path and skipping all trash in Fwd/Fwd path. Just not today.

If you want to talk about the reasons you run dungeons (as opposed to my own), elaborate on the reasons why you run dungeons. What is it you expect from a dungeon experience? I’ve already presented my idea on why I think skipping doesn’t belong in a dungeon (it’s better suited for guild missions like the guild rush or a new solo experience, it’s not group content). I don’t believe reaching the final reward faster is a reason to negate content – if that were true, they may as well just hand out loot for free. At some point content has to have value beyond the loot received at the end (or even throughout). Reinforcing game design to support the idea that content is worth experiencing (whether it be through increasing trash rewards or never dropping aggro, or both) is something I think needs to be looked at.

Is saying my reason from running dungeons is different from you not good enough?

Critically look at what a dungeon is, what it’s supposed to be (the content it offers, the role if fulfils in the game) and look at skipping. How does skipping impact on all those things. How does it impact on run times? On inflation? Does it take over the meta and squeeze out other approaches to the dungeon? Does it make the dungeon less rewarding for people who don’t participate in skipping? Does it make some paths less desirable than others? What kind of gameplay experience does it offer? Is this the appropriate arena or medium to offer that experience? Does that experience come at an opportunity cost for other experiences? What does skipping add to the game? Does skipping provide the experience intended when creating dungeons?

You are overextending yourself. On one hand, you are saying trash take little time to kill from your example of TA hounds taking 30 secs. On the other hand, you say that skipping is so impactful that it can cause inflation. Which is which?

I think I’ve said as much as I can say on this issue.

And to end. I am advocating choice above all else. Although I do skip trash, I am perfectly fine with ppl not skipping and acknowledge they have their reasons. I will always be against the idea of the removal of “choice”.

Shiren.9532:

mosspit.8936:

Shiren.9532:

snip

Or you can form your own party that specifies no skipping instead of pushing for a change that will impact everyone.

As an experiment, form a party for CoF p1 that involves no skipping with a pug using gw2lfg. Let me know how long it takes. Do the same for other dungeons (some which are difficult to get a group for even with skipping).

It’s not about asking for a change that impacts everyone, it’s a decision which needs to be made about whether you want your dungeon content to be played as intended or skipped and exploited for most efficient rewards (and to what lengths to you go to minimise the inevitable). The reality is, there are games which have more difficult and time consuming content which still encourage players to complete them rather than taking the path of least resistance (to a lesser extent GW2 does this with dungeon specific tokens – unfortunately gold is the primary reward now). What kind of dungeon community to you want to foster with your game design? Skipping impacts on everyone. Just because not everyone does it doesn’t mean we aren’t all impacted by it. The ecto duplication exploit lowered the value of all ectos, speed runs of CoF contribute to inflation and devalue the gold rewards of other paths and dungeons which are less rewarding for the time invested. This puts pressure on everyone to farm the more efficient paths, the more efficient dungeons and to skip anything which is not longer deemed rewarding enough for their time. People who do harder paths, who fight all the mobs (despite how trivial the additional time it takes) or who wait for that group willing to do a no skip run, they play at an opportunity loss in terms of rewards.

Skipping and not skipping are becoming a mutually exclusive thing in this game. They might not ever becoming truly 100% exclusive, but in practice, as the game ages, you can’t have one for as long as the other one exists, at least not without great difficulty.

Assuming all rewards and time invested are equal, what does skipping offer from a game experience? What does it take away from the dungeon experience? We need to look beyond the lowest common denominator. The community is better than that, GW2 is better than that. The dungeon community is paying a price by choosing to skip so much content and boiling down the situation to “it’s not worth killing trash” and "don’t make me play your way " (that’s not a valid argument), we need to critically think about skipping and what it offers the community from a gameplay experience, what it takes away from the community and what can be done differently (eg the Jade Sea Fractal). This issue is so much more complex than “it’s a waste of time” and “I don’t want to play how you want to play”.

After all is said, I still will not be able to experience dungeons the same way as you. You want to kill trash for you own reasons? By all means. But DO NOT expect that I run dungeons for the same reason you do.

Do I still kill trash? Yes. In fact, today I led a Fwd/Fwd TA explo with newcomers and we killed most of the trash along the way (inclusive of useful tips). And I later, I join a TA Up Path that skipped every trash mob skippable as indicated on gw2lfg. There is a different way of running dungeons dpending on the circumstance. And the choice is available so as not to restrict ppl into running dungeons a certain way.

Bottomline: you have a idea of what dungeons are. Fine. Run it your way. The other group skipping trash is not interfering with how you are playing your dungeon in your own instance. You just have to make some compromise on the group formation part by specifying your restriction.

Shiren.9532:

snip

Or you can form your own party that specifies no skipping instead of pushing for a change that will impact everyone.

ZeroArmada.9426:

Twilight Arbor:
I’ve only ever done this dungeon once, and I didn’t even finish it. On top of that, it was before any patches for dungeons had come out. I remember having a horrible time with those exploding flowers or whatever they are. After that, it was confusing because instead of choosing paths, you had to choose to go up or down, left to right, I was completely confused. What really got to me and completely turned me off from going to that dungeon ever again was fighting some boss (or mini boss I don’t remember). I remember it was a female, and I think her name started with a V but again, I hardly remember the fight but I do remember her practically one shotting everyone to death.

There are 3 paths. At first intersection (vines) you get to choose up or forward path. If you chose foward, at the next intersection (archers) you get to choose forward or up again. So the 3 paths are up, fwd/fwd and fwd/up.

For Vevina, avoid her Chaos Storm and have some cond removal with you. When her Chaos Shield is up stop attacking as she will give you conditions.

If you are still interested with TA, you can whisper me ingame and mention you’re from the forums and we can run together (im from NA server).

Shiren.9532:

I’d like to see mobs not lose aggro, not because I want to force everyone to play like me, but because I accept that a dungeon is an experience with a variety of content and challenges that should be completed. I like dungeons to be whole experiences, not a series of exploits and skipped content followed by a couple big health pools and a chest at the end. To me, that’s a dungeon experience that’s not worth playing. The reward might be there, but the content is ignored.

You do not want everyone to play like you. But you have an idealistic purpose of what dungeons are meant to be and you want aggro to be changed as you believe everyone should play for the same reason as you. How is that any different? You are still robbing ppl of choice.

For anyone who runs dungeon for the first few times, I will strongly encourage them to kill trash for the experience or whatnot. But as someone who ran dungeons many times as well as killed trash in the early days, I do not not want to be forced into killing trash just because someone else not even in the same party as me has a bad day skipping trash. If the Time/Risk vs Rewards gets more favorable, then we’ll talk.

Yet another one of these guys who got killed while skipping and wants the developer to change aggro methods JUST so they can have it their way.

1. Watch for Kholer’s scorpion wire into daggerstorm. The tell is when he raises his right arm to horizontal level with charging sparks. Dodge about a half a sec once you see the tell. If you do get pulled in, immediately use Elixir R to stun break and dodge away from him. Your mesmer mate can use Feedback on Kholer to help mitigate Kholer’s scorpion wire on the team. When adds spawn focus on them first but always keep a watchful eye on Kholer and be prepared to dodge when scorpion wire is about to trigger.

2. Burrows event. You got an Ele. Use her. She can have whatever build she wants as long as she packs Ice Bow (with an Optional Fiery Greatsword Elite). All but the npc defender (you) should focus on the burrows in this manner – East, South East (in small room), North West, North (directly north of npc), South West and finally North East. Have your ele pop the elemenal weapons for herself and another teammate constantly. Use Ice Bow 4 or Fiery GS 5 skills. Those are capable of dealing more than 70% dmg to burrows by themselves, but avoid using the aoe skills on the same burrow.

As the defender, you should kite the gravelings away from npc. Use Toolkit 2 skill and Elixir Gun 2 skill to apply cripple whenever you can. I would advise you to switch in Invigorating Speed trait to have constant vigor so that you can dodge more often. Have a habit of constantly switching kits so that Speedy Kits and Invigorating Speed can constantly trigger. Having 100% swiftness and vigor uptime is completely doable.

3. Gear. MF Gear is fine for starting out and understandably so. But you should switch out for other gear the moment you can. Something like Knight’s gear is great for dungeons.

Warruz.8096:

i understand the be careful what you wish for point however RNG doesnt have to be bad. Fractal weapons are a bit absurd just because not only do you have to actually get the skin it has to be a skin that you want as there are no means of training. What i think most would like to see is how fractal rings are handled , in the sense you can get one through rng quickly or if lucky is not on your side then you can get it through a predictable means such pristine fractals.

I did not say RNG is bad. I am trying to say ANet is capable of making bad RNG.

Rump Buffalo.2594:

People complain about anything and everything that is even minutely difficult to do or obtain in this game… it’s really sad how casual and easy the community seems to want the game to be.

If this is directed at ppl “complaining” about how rare recipes and fotm weapons skins are, have you tried actively getting any of these? I have 2 dungeon recipes and 6 fotm weapon skins but it doesn’t mean I agree with their methods of acquisition. Oh and RNG =/= Difficult. If anything RNG means grind without progression.

Rump Buffalo.2594:

I think the tokens work great, but I think having special skins, not necessarily gear, that drop off RNG is fine as long as the chests have a decent chance of dropping them and stop dropping blues all together.

Unfortunately based on ANet’s track record for creating RNG drops, what I am trying to say is that RNG drops can get rather extreme. Similar to the 2 examples I given. Hence “be careful of what you wish for”.

For the nightmare vines, likeliness to target ranged characters is from personal experience. As you know there are 2 safe spots for ranged weapon users in the room. I have been in fights where melee characters focus on the GNV and ranged characters stay at the safe spots – the melee characters will not get any spits at all. Not even from the surrounding silvers which spawns.

There is also another scenario where ranged chars attack in melee range of the GNV. While the GNV will not do any spits, the surrounding silvers will continue to spit at them and indirectly cause melee chars hitting the GNV to be affected by spits as well. Vines are more likely to target ranged users is more like their priority in the aggro table. But I will not deny that it could be wrong so leaving out this point might be less misleading.

For Chaos Storm, it is as you said random effects similar to the Chaos Storm cast by a memser. Out of these Retailation is the one ppl should take note of. The other effects – Protection is annoying; Swiftness can be ignored. But Retaliation is the one that will cause players to literally kill themselves when attacking. On the whole players know to stop attacking when Vevina has Chaos Shield up due to the visual cue. But I still see players kill themselves attacking Husks with Retaliation.

For the damage description, “extreme” might be not suitable. The root attacks will 1 shot any glass cannons damage-wise. Using my pool of characters, only my Guardian decked in Soldiers/Knight items can withstand the root but the 10 stacks of bleed will quickly make short work of my Guardian.

I will chip in for TA Exp.

Greater Nightmare Vine-

• Vines are more likely to target ranged weapon users
• As such avoid using ranged weapons in melee range so that your teammates who are meleeing will not be bombarded by spits as much
• Spits can be absorbed (eg Shield of the Avenger) but cannot be reflected (eg Feedback)

Up

• Malrona’s room has 4 groups of spiders as opposed to 3.
• Locations are : Left-Front / Right-Front / Right-Middle / Center-Back
• Reflection skills are great against Malrona. A focus traited Mesmer with Feedback can have about 90% reflection uptime on Venom Blast. Theoretically one can allow him/herself to be inflicted with Predator Swiftness so that the reflected projectles deal even more damage.
• Nightmare Tree has 2 prominent attacks – Single Target “Root” (Animation slow raising of right arm and quick smash to the ground) and Multi-Target “Root” (Animation show Tree standing slowly on hind legs and bring both hands down).
• Single Target “Root” deals extreme damage with 10 bleed stacks, attack has virtually no lead time. Multi-Target “Root” will damage similarly with red circles and have a lead time about 1 sec. By blinding the boss, both attacks will whiff.

Fwd/Up

• Defiler Bees attack can be reflected. Tell for this when it steps on 1 feet and thrust its chest forward
• Vevina and the Husks – Be careful of what boons they have on. When Chaos Storm lands on Leurent, the aoe will grant Vevina and the husks Retaliation. I have seen so many players kill themselves due to Retaliation. For mesmers timewarping, have Null Field on standby to help remove retaliation.

Fwd/Fwd

• Archers in Bubble room – Bug where the bubble will remain a few secs after archer is killed is somewhat not as noticeable as before. To be on the safe side, use portals to port to another safe location instead of directly walking out of the bubble area.
• Nightmare Tree – If downed, binding roots caused by oakhearts can be used to rally.

Rump Buffalo.2594:

see the problem with “better loot” is that the vertical scaling of loot is extremely shallow. It isn’t that hard to get exotics and once you get a level 80 exotic/ascended you have best in slot… so there really isnt a reason to continue looking for gear at that point. You max out on armor very quickly so there really can’t be better loot… SKINS now THERE is an idea.

There is already dungeon specific loot in the game in the form of recipes dropped only by bosses of specific dungeon paths. Granted they are not skins but they could possibly be. Thing is the RNG associated with them are pretty bad and there are absolutely no other way of obtaining them via a progressive nature.

Fotm weapon skins are also only obtainable via Fotm and is completely RNG driven. There are some threads around here that discuss the fact that the associated RNG is very bad as well.

Be careful of what you wish for.

Diablos.2834:

The recipe is dropped in f/u path or from a chest there?

Dropped from Leurent from the F/F path. The boss himself and not the chest. Got the recipe myself bout a month ago. Was much more profitable when it first introduced.

I think OP is referring to the Champion Risen Abomination in CoE, seeing that this is a dungeon sub forum….

It happens. The first Arah path 4 I did was back when the gates were glitched and players were not allowed access to a dungeon with contested gate even though his/her teammates are in the instance already. Needless to say, we wasted a few hours. Ironically at Grenth too.

Rash.6514:

But I do choose. While some players want to get the tokens as fast as possible, I can wait. I like enjoying things one small step at a time. I will eventually get my full gear set of a dungeon and I am not in a hurry. And the game allows me to do it while allowing others to farm as much as possible. This is perfect, I agree that ANet got that right.

In that case, a 3 hour path is still abusive to you?

Rash.6514:

But even with daily caps, I think a 3 hour run for 1 path is abusive as well, this game has other content I want to enjoy.

Riis.7615:

snip

You forget to mention that magic find only benefits the wearer and brings absolutely nothing to group effectiveness in dungeons.

Rash.6514:

Whoa, wait a second, you guys need to read it better. I never said skipping is exploiting. I said using exploits to skip content is bad. If there is a path “designed” to skip, then that is a choice.

Which comes to my original question, what were the dungeons intended for? To give us a choice? I agree that killing all the mobs takes a LONG time. I said that too. ANet could also solve it by putting daily limits on which you could get tokens, so it wouldn’t matter if you skip or not. But even with daily caps, I think a 3 hour run for 1 path is abusive as well, this game has other content I want to enjoy.

GW1 wasn’t even designed with dungeons in mind. They were introduced on Eye of The North. As far as missions went, you could skip some stuff by choice without using exploits. I didn’t like the reward system of the GW1 missions (one, two or three swords), but I did like how they were designed. I think (and that is just my humble opinion), if ANet designed the GW2 dungeons with the same timing and difficulty as the GW1 missions, it would be perfect.

To be fair one could possibly infer that you meant that normal skipping could be an exploit too based on the wording. There are rather zealous players out there that believe that skipping of the normal nature IS an exploit. But at least we are in some agreement here.

Currently the DR in place in dungeons act as a soft cap for completion rewards. I gather that you want to maximize tangible rewards but at the same time you want to experience other not-as-profitable content too. So you need to weigh out what is more important to you – Profitability or Experience? Farmers will gravitate towards the most profitable path in the game (which in current context is CoF 1 but it could potentially mean any other profitable paths in the future). You could still do any other dungeons that interest you. But the moment you start putting rewards into the picture, you need to make a decision.

krowik.8053:

IndigoSundown.5419:

krowik.8053:

If we are breezing through a dungeon, why do you want to make it easier by stacking and dodge against a pillar or standing where the boss can’t hit you? Makes me sleepy. Just my opinion.

Stacking as a technique is done because buffs, heals, condition removals, etc. that help teammates are usually at no range and are in a relatively small area. To benefit from them, it helps to be close to the team.

As to why people use certain tactics… people tend to repeat things that worked for them in the past. People don’t like to fail, they don’t like their character to die, they don’t even like to do the dungeon slower than they know it can be done. If they know some tactic works, they will use it, over and over and over …

I understand why people stack and use the tactics they use. I’m not saying its a bad idea.

It just seems like those should be saved for speed runs or as a last resort. The “stack here and follow these specific steps not to die” doesn’t seem like it should be the go-to option for dungeon runs. It should be used if the dungeon is too hard for your group.

I’m not the best dungeon runner in the world. I really only just started doing them regularly. I have screwed our groups a couple of times with accidental pulls or standing in the wrong spot. What I’ve found though is a lot of people who are telling everyone in the group what to do and know every step of the dungeon (which I’m not complaining about, I don’t mind having a pro help the group,) if you mess up their plan then they will get worked because they cant seem to adapt. They die or they tell everyone to run out and reset it. Makes me wonder, are people actually good at this dungeon/game…Or are they good at following the guide?

There are also some players who just do not want to take up any advise or listen to any instructions. I’m inclined to believe it is an ego thing. Not saying that you one of these ppl. I am just stating an observation.

If you want a serious answer, search the forums for the keyword skipping. Time/Risk vs Rewards for trash mob at the current state is not worthwhile.

Skipping is not an exploit.

If you are adamant against skipping, join or create a party with the requirements that no mob are skipped.

Didn’t realize posting in this thread was this strict. My bad o.O

Rising Dusk.2408:

Endure Pain is not invulnerability, it is direct damage immunity. There’s a difference.

Agony is special in lots of ways. The only thing that can prevent the application of Agony is blocking / evading the application. Being invulnerable will not prevent the application of Agony. This means that moves like Distortion work because they result in evasion, and similarly for Blurred Frenzy. …

When you are in distortion, attacks that normally hit will register as invulnerable. Unless it is a labeling error. Jade Maw’s agony goes through distortion though.

It was in the in this state about 2 patches ago. She used to give 15silvers but now she doesn’t even drop any loot. For SE path 3, you will not get 15s from destroyer. Only normal loot. So don’t waste your omnom bars.

Viewing thing from other side of the fence with regards to my previous post, I attempted Arah path 2 and 4 as a newbie.

Posted a lfg whilst stating I’m new but with some experience with lupi, I got invited. Once the party is complete, I again state that I was new to the path via party chat. If someone were to have issues with having a newbie on board, at least we can get things sorted before we start the dungeon.

1st path 4 run, party had poor dps and after many iterations of Dwayna steath cycles, dungeon owner gave up and kicked us out. 2nd run was also a PUG and I did the same introductions. This time round there was a vet who was knowledgeable and the run was successful. The group didnt mind having me as a newbie and we started with the correct expectations.

After path 4, I did path 2 as a newbie again. Same introductions that lead to the same alignment of expectations. And a few bumps here and there, the run was completed.

I just wanna share my experience. Stating that one is new at the start can help. I am not saying that all newcomers must do so but if you think about it – if a party does not want a newcomer and actually kicks him/her at the start, imagine what they will do if they found out that him/her was new midway through the dungeon. I rather be kicked before the dungeon even starts.

Nice! So i guess the movement while petrified is not really a bug. Good to know.

Just did an Arah path 4 with 2 necros (1 condition spec), 1 ele, 1 guard and 1 mes (me). They were kind enough to have a path 4 newbie like me. It took a few stealth iterations to set up the rhythm but it was pretty much smooth sailing from that point on.

I will say it is very buggy though. Once the sparks appeared when Dwayna was still visible and vulnerable. Twice I was petrified but could move (and use a tear to cure myself).

mosspit.8936

Looking for Help on path 2 and 4
Profession : Guardian / Mesmer / Engineer
Type : Shout Tank / Dps / Multi-Kit
Gear: Full Exotics & Ascended

Has experience with Lupi via path 1 and 3.

Thanks

Edited: Found 2 PUGs from gw2lfg that were willing to take me and completed arah path 2 and 4. So instead of looking for help, I will be available for Arah runs

Just started a kit swapping engineer. Then this happens…

Well it was good when it lasted. Much less fun now.

bartem.2731:

mosspit.8936:

bartem.2731:

I 100% agree that they should, but they won’t. I think asking while indicating they wont be kicked out would encourage them to come out. If they don’t read the chat, which is common, all is lost.

Yeah dungeon newcomers will probably not visit these forums. But for the slim chance that they do, maybe they can start voicing out.

Question: Do you run dungeons often and for how long since? Do you in fact ask your party for newcomers every run assuming PUGs?

I don’t have the DM title, as I ran all but 2 Arah paths (due to time needed on a first proper run) multiple times including fotm. I don’t ask as I don’t mind if I lose some time and few silvers because someone didn’t mention their experience level. I do ask if I notice oddities. I only kicked one person out as he was outright damaging the group by doing opposite of what we were telling him to do, very seemingly on purpose. That’s me, but if you are particular about newbies coming out at the beginning, you might as well ask yourself. By definition newbies wont be reading forums as much or is accustomed to dungeon etiquette.

Right. You ask when you witness oddities and not every runs. Like someone viewing custscene things like that. I know cause I also use those indicators to make educated guesses (not foolproof). Btw if newcomers screw up, it will not be my silvers that are wasted. It will be his/her repair costs.

But for asking the newcomer question every run… If anyone is willing to do that, good for him/her. I will and have helped newcomers along the way but for taking some time and effort helping newcomers, I would like to get some proactiveness on the newcomers to voice out.

SkyChef.5432:

Actually the players you guys should worry in lfg are "moronic experienced’ and “moronic inexperienced” players. You know what is the common denomination of these 2 type of players? Moronic.
The “moronic experienced” are the stereotype players seeing the game the way they played and trained to play it. They couldn’t cope with any deviation from their game, hence rage quit & lousy attitude. Most of them couldn’t handle hard contents with either by themselves or with a couple more players and that’s why they need pug. By this definition, they aren’t very good players. Legendary weapons, commander tag, 3000+ achievement notwithstanding.
The “moronic in-experienced” are the dumbest, butt head everything brute fort. They typically know couple skills inadequately, not waiting for instructions when knowing nothing about the content, dying within the 1st 15 sec when the battle starts (repetitively) and making the game play so intolerable to even the most considerate players of this community. If they ever passed this inexperienced stage, there is a very high chance (like 90% give and take some) they will grow up to be the “moronic experienced” players.
And there are always someone in between. Without the moronic part, of course.

Such an entertaining post And incidentally true as well imo

bartem.2731:

I 100% agree that they should, but they won’t. I think asking while indicating they wont be kicked out would encourage them to come out. If they don’t read the chat, which is common, all is lost.

Yeah dungeon newcomers will probably not visit these forums. But for the slim chance that they do, maybe they can start voicing out.

Question: Do you run dungeons often and for how long since? Do you in fact ask your party for newcomers every run assuming PUGs?

bartem.2731:

Agree with Saulius. In fact, they rarely read the chat. It’s always a good idea to ask whether anyone is new to the dungeon and tell them to pay attention to chat and targetting if there’s any. You may be more forgiving than the next PUG guy, and maybe he will quit cause someone else is new. You probably want that as well.

Newcomers should voice out if they are new to a path even if they are not asked. I mean a newcomer only needs to voice out once (or a few times) that one is new as opposed to questioning the party every run.

Btw I have raised the newcomer question before and no one responded…. until they hit a wall later in the run and promptly said they are in fact new.

Meh I rather lfg stay the same since it gives an idea of what kind of party it will turn out to be. And what I will avoid.

As far as PUG is of concern, anything goes.

Wethospu.6437:

mosspit.8936:

—
Afaik there are no court knight variants with deviant so they are still susceptible to focused cc.

Except that one Champion. Probably no one knows it even exists.

And where can I find such a champion court knight? With the same moveset? Otherwise I believe we are referring to different things.

Edit: Ah yes that court knight on F/F path before the bridge. Must have slipped my mind.

HELLruler.4820:

I dont think they hit that hard, but the real problem is they can stun-lock you to death. Each knight can knock you down twice in a row, so when you are about to get up, they knock you down again.

The second attack I think you are referring doesn’t do knockdown. But it does have good cone range and cripples.

Stunbreaker after the intial leap knockdown move and dodge immediately after. Afaik there are no court knight variants with deviant so they are still susceptible to focused cc.

If the above is directed at my post, I mean I can skip reliably alone or with a group. Not necessarily with the same skillset.

Speed runs by means of trash skipping if done properly can save time. I do it often and I am certainly capable of doing so reliably. But then there is the whole PUG aspect during party formation. No matter how one put his/her requirements across, newbies who think that skipping trash is just plain running through will join up and be disappointed. Nonetheless not every run can be perfect and for me, I am willing to make that call.

kitten happens.

His “noob” description probably isn’t literal. Just a means to show his displeasure. Just like how you are posting this incident on this forum. Doesn’t mean he is right though.

TA Up, HotW 1, CM 3.

All 3 is about the same but I feel that TA Up can be done faster.