He is saying toolkit should be a heal skill since it heals turrets, that way you can have 3offensive turrets if you want.
ie: toolkit + 3turrets or healing turrets+3 whatever.
because while other professions are busy petting eachother’s kittens the wrong way, us few good engies are busy constructing a doomsday device.
it’s not like I am revealing anything secret, we’re engies, we build things. then we crush you with them.
it will happen, and when it does, all the other professions will be so flabbergasted, perplexed, and confuddled by their sudden misfortune that no one will even remember how few good engies there are.
they will be too busy lamenting days of yore.
And we engies will be bathing in the elixers made from the souls of the reaper’s harvest.
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Define lack of damage please?
By what metric are you gauging that it has bad “damage” ?
Um, seriously? You’re seriously going to claim the FT has good damage now? I should hope you have some backup for this crazy new claim?
Oh, I see. The tactic is simply to present enough arguments that the person gets tired of refuting them. Well, it succeeded.
Just don’t ever ask why no one ever debates you on these threads. It’s been tried. It hasn’t been reciprocated.
Problem: what your are doing is pontificating, not debating. Debate involves arguments and counter arguments. Your pontificating lacks counter argument.
I’m more of a po-mo feminist than an apologist, but thanks for the up vote.
Lets review. THIS is what you said:
_> a 100b warrior sure as kitten cant use banners, vice versa._
You didn’t start talking "fully realized" until AFTER you were called out. I realize you want to cover your mistake, but corrections don’t apply backwards in time, especially if you’re not willing to admit making a mistake in the first place.
See, now that’s a fair rebuttal, and my own exaggeration is biting me.
But since you had to focus on opportunity costs, I followed suit.
Perma swiftness is a 10 point trait too, I still don’t see your point.
Edit: I missed your edit, but have to get some work done. Will reply when I get home.
(edited by nakoda.4213)
Nope. Banner REGENERATION is 30 points. If you can’t think of a use for banners beyond that trait, that’s hardly my problem.
10 points + 1 adept trait is all you need to have one banner up almost 100% of the time.
Sigh. Again you read two words and not the content.
My use of "fully realized" certainly includes regen. Where is the problem?
The problem is that Arena net has drank their own KoolAid. They bought into their own hype and not refuse to believe that they possibly didn’t do something correctly.
i dont (always) mean to be a kitten but to break down what you just said..
i) anet drinks their own koolaid
ii) they bought into their own hype
iii) not refuse to believe
iv) they did not do something correctlywhich actually says they did in fact believe they did not do something correctly, or in plain english, they are aware of their mistakes.
your double negative is a prime example of why 99.44% (yes that is ivory white hyperbole for you) of what is said on the forums get’s lost, over looked, mis-read, and poorly communicated.
did you mean to say that:
ANet is so high on their horse that they think they could not have possibly done any wrongs?
Not = Now.
Check your douchyness at the Door. This isn’t the Warrior forum. We have standards here.
Since the idea was clearly beyond you here is a link that will spell it out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogance
So your typo makes me Othello?
I always pictured myself as an Iago.
Darn.
Edit: btw, hubris is better defined in aristotle’s poetics than on Wikipedia. You should check it out. I stopped using webster’s in grade 6.
(edited by nakoda.4213)
I’m not sure what you missed.
Banner spec is a min 30 pt assignment to be fully realized. 100b is not. However., 100b shouts requires ancillary traits for full effectiveness such as GS spec and shout heals. Whoa, wait a sec, that’s 50 points right there.
Now, nade spec is 30 points. However, FT tank needs Jugg and, IMO (whoa wait, opinion, what?) deadly mixture... 50 points.
So, kittens seem to lose their mittens no matter what.
What you don’t get is that every class has costs (Ele’s have lower costs, engies have more, sure, yes it is imbalanced between classes, but they are different classes) and that the more points any class spends, the less "versatile" they become. But, I use versatile in the way it has been used in this thread, not for its actual meaning, which has eluded this thread.
Engies are wrecking balls in solo/pve. True story.
Have fun! You will, I promise.
Just play. Nades are easy mode
No.
I am saying 100b means weak banners, ans banners means weak 100b. What forum language do you speak? Can I google translate for you?
Further, 100nades means weak elixers, and so on. . .
(edited by nakoda.4213)
> a 100b warrior sure as kitten cant use banners, vice versa.
> pistols AND rifles in one spec, if you dont like kitsLol, I was taking my valuable time refuting THIS?
Psst. Banner cooldown reduction is an adept level trait. Maybe you’re thinking of a banner regen build, because THAT is the GM trait. 100b + Shout-heals are more commonly used in WvW and sPvP because they can remove conditions, but if someone wanted a banner in there they could do so easily, and indeed it would help with a longbow might-stacking build.
My points still stand.
Yes, please. Make more arguments like this. Makes our job blindingly easy.
you havent refuted anything though. technically, you dont need traits for banners or 100b, but if you trait them, they both improve greatly at the cost of not getting the other.
comparing shout/cond is just as off because warhorn specializaton is also a T2 trait.
what are you arguing? do you even know?
trait specializations are . . . specializations.
i wrote the first forum guide to banners, i know what im talking about. ive been a banner warrior since i hit 60 week 1 and dropped 5sig solo for group play. but e-peaning is pointless because it doent change the nature of specialization.
specialists are journeymen not.
of course the comparisons are applea to oranges, they are different professions. but they are still points to compare.
it seems to me like the forum community doesnt even play the samegame because the mewling here does not corroborate with experiencea in game.
(also, sorry for typos, im here on a motorola deft and the touch screeb qwerty.
is riny. )
why would you trait one kit and use another?
a 100b warrior sure as kitten cant use banners, vice versa.
you get bombs AND nades in ine spec
FT AND elixers in one spec
pistols AND rifles in one spec, if you dont like kits
also; re biased comparisons, that was the point. which is why i labelled then anecdotal.
as far as i know, ele is the ONLY profession whose traits allow for hybrid specialization.
my points still stand.
that still means that those 5 skilled, competitive, privileged players are better at playing a class than the majority of forum posters.
like it or not, forum chatter about anything is the vocal MINORITY not a majority. of the entire subscriber base, how many actually post on the forums? how many of those actually post regularly? how many post frequently (like ourselves)?
until videos stop appearing of engineers kittening face, and until the entire consensus is that the profession is no longer fun, there is no leg for naysaying to stand on other than “other classes out perform us”.
here are some anecdotal stats for you:
flamethrower > warrior longbow
elixers > warrior warhorn
T3 nades > EVERYONE’s range (but it costs .. SO WHAT .. ITS BETTER THAN EVERYONE!)
kits > faster swapping and more options than even a warrior
(notice the trend yet….)
I should go to the warrior forum and cry about how engies are better than us. By default that makes rogues and DD ele better than us too … oh wait, warriors already kitten about how they only get to do one thing.
the point to that is if warriors are good as Anet claims, then the forums wouldn’t be full of kittens, but they are, because this is where kittens go to mewl. Warrior’s rock, but you’ll still wade through QQ posts before getting to the good stuff. Just like the engie forum, the players who have no problem are busy playing, and they outnumber you.
forums are nothing more than an AoE of QQ, with a few nukes of truth scattered about.
you dont have to like it.
(P.S. those warriors who solo dungeons are people just like the engies who kittenyarn all over others in videos .. they are SKILLED players. You think everyone with a warrior could solo lupercus? kittenOLOL …..)
(edited by nakoda.4213)
There are too many videos of engineers in PvP and WvW owning groups, if we were in that bad of a place, it wouldn’t matter how good or bad players are, it wouldn’t happen.
This game rewards skill over innate profession power much more heavily than others.
I suspect if you put these people behind the wheel of any other profession they would go from "pwning face" to "ANet devs rolled back the server to put an end to this player’s rampage thinking a raid boss had escaped from blizzard headquarters next door"
and how does this mean that engie sucks? because i suck with a necro, engie automatically sucks even though i pwn kitten faces with my engie?
(edited by nakoda.4213)
The problem is that Arena net has drank their own KoolAid. They bought into their own hype and not refuse to believe that they possibly didn’t do something correctly.
i dont (always) mean to be a kitten but to break down what you just said..
i) anet drinks their own koolaid
ii) they bought into their own hype
iii) not refuse to believe
iv) they did not do something correctly
which actually says they did in fact believe they did not do something correctly, or in plain english, they are aware of their mistakes.
your double negative is a prime example of why 99.44% (yes that is ivory white hyperbole for you) of what is said on the forums get’s lost, over looked, mis-read, and poorly communicated.
did you mean to say that:
ANet is so high on their horse that they think they could not have possibly done any wrongs?
thematic response:
isnt the job of an engineer to cobble together matetials to make something awesome out of nothing? real or fantasy?
so, yes, that is my point, especially since engineers likely have a higher pay grade than you…
but my real point is that the people posting videos of kittening good times on their engie are real tangible evidence that refutes the allegory and anectodal evidence that you are a kitten and not a tigger.
which, i suppose is true because…..
bouncey trouncey pouncey flouncey fun fun fun fun fun
but the most wonderful thing about tiggers is im t he only one!
(edited by nakoda.4213)
i can vpn in some FORTRAN, and COBOL and transmit using a macguyver’d microwave transistor if itll make you feel more at home. all out of punch cards tho…
;)
(i started learning C from deitel!)
is playing a game about being superior or having fun? as maullus put it, wtf is superior anyway?
yes, the game provides goals, like winning in pvp, but the entire point to an mmo is to be massively MULTI player which means that the meat, focus, impetus, whatever you want to call it, of the game is to play in groups of people, not to be a homestar.
engineers are effective and reliable in large group situations because of their ability to change, adapt, and effect change (great and small) in nearly EVERY situation the game throws at you. This is what “versatility” means. Warriors are not versatile compared to engies in ANY way because their builds actually pigeon hole them into roles.
there is nothing more entertaining to watch than a well played engie mid combat. and there is nothing more satisfying than being that engie. your “tax” is the frustration of not being open minded, creative, or skilled enough to look beyond your stat sheet and actually play the game.
I love my ft, the change to hit boxes seems to have helped greatly.
Hey I just turned 40! That means I can use rare weapons! My kits now do base dmg == rare weapons my level!
Hey I just turned 60! That means I can get some exotic gear! That means my kits do base dmg == exotic weapons my level!
Boy this is confusing! Kittens!
P.S. prior dmg is irrelevant, what you have is what you’ve got,
(edited by nakoda.4213)
The patch notes are explicitly clear, y’all’s confusion is confusing…
Bundles have a base dmg range of whatever quality weapon is highest for your level. That means at level 60 and onwards your kits do base dmg == exotic gear.
Mud? Kitten…
Ft is solid now.
What we need is a personal teleportation device to give us a blink mechanic.
interesting. will have to check this out.
correct me if i’m wrong, but the ranger rune set requires a companion for #6 to work, no?
for pistol 4 to work you have to face your enemy. not your camera, but your avatar. pistol “kittens” because you’re doing it wrong.
Why do you assume I’m not already doing this. Why would I turn away and look the complete opposite way when I’m attacking someone. Offhand pistol is too glitchy for me to take.
because often times when your camera is facing your enemy you are not because of small alterations in vector due to strafing and camera rotation via mouse. many times you are “missing” it is because your character is actually facing sideways and thus misses slightly. you have to pay close attention to your facing (and range) for abilities like pistol 4 and rifle 4, or they will not be fully efficient.
for pistol 4 to work you have to face your enemy. not your camera, but your avatar. pistol “kittens” because you’re doing it wrong.
(edited by nakoda.4213)
ANet: Engineer! What is best in life?!
Engie: The sweet rush of elixirs, the four tools on my belt, and the versatility of my turrets!
ANet: Wrong! Warrior, what is best in life?!
Conan: One shotting your enemies, seeing them nerfed before you, and hearing the lamentation of the engies.
ANet: YES! This is best in life!
In my dream world, it would be nice to see everything become a kit. I’m typing when I shouldn’t be, so I will flesh out later, but the idea is thus…
Explosives, elixirs, flamethrowers, turrets, healing, and (new) golems.
Weapons and kits combine, to a degree, imagine:
- grenades with bomb Fskills, or vice versa
- elixir gun with elixir Fskills
- flamethrower with (new) incendiary Fskills
- tool kit with turrets as Fskills with proper deployment and cool downs.
- med kit with more bandages (5)to drop, some big some small maybe a hot, with elixir like Fskills for cond, swift, etc.
- golemancy skills like wind up grenades that chase targets on the ground, or aluminum foil paper airplanes, and even (lesser) golems to attack or defend, and a pet golem to control (for Fskills)
That is, a complete revamp of the tool belt. I see why it is as it is now, logically, you change kits, but not belts, so a belt tool for each skill makes sense, but if we can change out backpacks and store tools like guybrush, I don’t see why belts cannot change as well.
Gadgets remain more or less as is, so do fields like radiation, pain inverter, etc… But we get more of them to choose from,
Kits still occupy skill slots, weapon swapping still need not apply.
Remember that ninja gai-me from way back when on that little box you plugged in to your tv? kitten was that game hard. The devs definitely nerfed the hero before launch. It was seriously no fun at all…
Or use apothecary armor and get tough, cond, heal.
Clerics is the cheap man’s banner armor, and rocks pve like a freshly anchored ship on your mothers night off. That is, it’s great, power, tough, and heal, dps and regen.
If you are a banner warrior, your dps is secondary anyway, your job is to buff, and support heals.
I’ve tried both 0/25/15/30/0 and 25/0/15/30/0 builds (adrenal health is so good) in attempts to balance the two. In pve I’ve found the prior to be better, in unison with apothecary when using 1h sword and war horn for a bleeds cleanse build. Love it.
In pvp the cond dmg build is great for laying down flame aoe while buffing the group.
Your banners, regardless of game type, ought to be set up like Venn diagrams to spread out as much regen as possible (5 peeps per banner) while overlapping the buffs of the action.
Banners are a support role, not a front lines role. My banners tick for 385 heals on my compadres. My self regen with signet is over 1200, ~650 without signet (assume three stacks adrenal health). That with the boons they provide and my war horn cond conversion, my groups have no problem completing tasks, and I typically end up a primary target in pvp when the foe realizes how much I am countering theirs efforts.
Swinging a big sword isn’t the only way to contribute meaningfully.
Back on topic; clerics for cheap armor, or get pre/vit/heal (mostly from hotw tokens) or the jones’s apothecary armor for pimpin rides.
(edited by nakoda.4213)
Tbth, banners ought to be like turrets, no cd on pick up other than global cd. No one but the warrior who planted it should be able to retrieve it. (Turrets also need to have no cd but global).
Each banner should provide an aoe combo field (not a blast finisher), ie defence=water, or whatever is appropriate.
Buff/boons are appropriate as is, but range needs to be buffed and bug fixed.
T1 trait should buff range.
T2 trait should grant combo finisher.
T3 trait should provide regen and boon increase.
Banners need tweaks, not overhauls.
Engies? Engies?! We don’ need no stinkin’ engies!
Just Do Not make an engineer whoever started playing the game and sees this. Engi is completely useless 1 vs 1 and in groups besides the useless damage engi has no survivability unless you exchage 90% damage wich then leaves you harmless
^has no idea how to play as an engi.
You may want to recalibrate the sarcastic-o-gauge with the cross-magneto-troll detection adapter in your humour-radar. I think you misinterpreted the input data.
i recently noticed that sigils which offer on swap abilities indefinitely (within a few guidelines) stack.
eg: grants might on swap; because weapon sigils apply to kits, you can swap back and forth every 5 sec or so to continually add stacks of might. the caveat is that each sigil stack seems to be on its own timer, of sorts, so they overlap. at about 2/3 remaining ( about at the bottom-right square corner of the boon icon) is where the sweet spot seems to be.
thus, swappong between weapon and kit (i use p/p + nades) offers increased dmg output and the longer the fight, the stronger you become (like the hulk, only more boom and less smash). i was able to get up to 13 stacks on a champion ettin fight, if you can reliably stay out of aggro i bet you could go higher.
something to tinker with, at least..
(edited by nakoda.4213)
“All your nerfs are belong to us.”
Even more proof that Anet doesn’t venture to the engineer side of the forums: This post isn’t locked yet and we aren’t suspended from the forums.
“it’s coming. faster! you must drive faster” – jurrasic park.
No you di’nt..
“To Kit or not to Kit, that is the versatility.” -William Shakespeare
Thus do I ever make my fool my prey
For I mine own gain’d buffage should profane,
If I could but extend with such a range
But for my nades and powder.
I hate them all!
And tis thought abroad that twixt my sheets they do mine office!
I know not if it be true.
Yet I, for mere suspicion in that kind
Will do as if for surety.
They hold me well; the better shall my purpose work on they,
Ele’s a proper man, let me see now…
To get his place and plume up mine will in double knavery…
How? How!?
Lets see… After some time, to abuse the Ele’s ear
That he is too familiar with his boons,
He hath a person and a smooth dispose to be suspected
Framed to make attunements false.
That cad is of a free and open nature
That thinks warriors honest that but seem to be so,
And as tenderly led by the rogue as kitten are.
I have’t! It is engineer’d!
Hell and night must bring this monstrosity to the world’s light!
In the first nerf, up to the word “RNG”
Engie is sneering at Warri’r who has just gave shout.
He then turns his thoughts to the plan which will form the action of the patch…
I hate them all!
(edited by nakoda.4213)
Dunno what to say, I never implied that you leave the mouse in the same place and kite, I implied that you ought to know where your cursor is.
Not sure how to elaborate…
Target foe, toss nade at red circle;
Toss another in front of the circle;
Start moving, right click camera, strafe, toss another, or a wrench, or whatever;
Right click turn and strafe, toss nade while moving cursor, kite a ill more;
Generally keep your foes grouped, use turrets and other skills…
Lead nades on running foes, spin around, move mouse and lead shot while they turn around…
I dunno, .. Play like you mean it? I’ve never found an issue with targeting, I just play. When I miss, it’s because I was an idiot and didn’t lead enough or turn far enough, not because the nades didn’t go where I told them to. I guarantee that they landed exactly where I pointed.
(edited by nakoda.4213)
60s cool down with 100% uptime, 3 available banners hot swappable at will, no penalty to weapon skills a la engie, slight nerf to stat bonuses, and so on. I have read your post. I am not a troll. The ideas are cool but are not feasible.
Warrior is the control class. You have added too much without taking enough away. That’s all I’m saying. That’s why I said it sucks, not because it isn’t cool, but because it isn’t realistic given the direction ANet has taken.
I’m sorry my sarcasm was too much for you to handle. Mebbe spec auto-“shake it off” ? :s
I also recommend you search “banner” on the forum and you’ll find I do run 2 banners at all times with a sword/war horn and shake it off. I’ve even got a banner post in the thread for builds up above. Might need some updating… But…anyway, since you still think criticism equals insult…
my kitten is bigger than yours, etc etc, pewqqpew
(edited by nakoda.4213)
or do more dmg than a Catholic School girl on Sunday on her way to church.
you ever met a pastor’s daughter on a sunday? she will school you in things you’ve only theorybated about.
don’t diss divine power.
im glad you take this all personally. it makes me feel good inside to know that i have caused you such anguish over a video game and that you have no idea what it means to disagree and have a … discussion … about something.
no one is perfect mate, but that doesn’t make someone a troll.
. . .
i still think your idea sucks. why go through all the hassle of making it a kit that does exactly what it does now? just .. pick up your banner ..
you have yet to address any penalties to balance your changes.
(edited by nakoda.4213)
This entire post does not make any sense to me whatsoever.FYI,Banners are used For Allies,not personal use,why should i keep carrying it being useles besides pressing 2 – 3 every now an then ? Instead of wearing it on my back,buffing my allies,and be able to smack things with my normal weap.Being able to atleast carry One banner on your back,would be a great idea to be implemented because as of now banners are clunky to use and it happens to often that you are Forced outside of the banner area,and forget it,or need to pick it up again (if you want the effects to do anything usefull ) while people are smacking away at you.
because the benefit of a banner is the buffs it provides, but the complaint is lack of mobility.
then, as i’ve stated, putting the banner on the back so it moves with you is too much … it does not tax our class at all because it gives us mobile buffing without the penalty of weapon reduction.
so the point of making it more kit and less turret is to make the skills (1-3) more viable as a tool in hand (the banner man in a war never puts it down, lest he be uninspiring), with the bonus of having off hand abilities like your warhorn (talk about a support buff, banner + warhorn?) or your shield (riot control!) or a sword (commander defense) or …. well I could go on; then you have the option (traited) of going 2 hand banner (a proper “inspiring battle standard” trait) which gives you the ability to plant the standard (which is what a flag in the ground is called, a banner is carried … and yes, the meaning of words does matter) so that your banner gains combo field (while up) and increased range when put in to the ground. putting it into the ground is a permanent move that lasts, say, 70% of the CD of the banner. if you never put it down on the ground, the CD is 1 sec like a kit. and so on, and so forth.
the point is to give and take, not just take.
What you guys are asking for is the ability to have the skills of grandmaster traits from more than 2 trees in a spec by having superb banners and still having your pimped out dps. You are being greedy.
if you want to make it more turret than kit, then it is the buffs the banners provide that need to be changed, not their functionality at all, and then the abilities you get when picking up a banner need to be nerfed to compensate.
lastly, people getting upset about this theory crafting (myself included “banner on the back is a horrible kitten”) is moot because this is all fantasy football league talk, none of it matters. ANet is pretty clear about their control over their class visions, etc.
“Woah.” Bill; Bill & Ted’s Bogus Patch.
An engie to ANet: “I know what you did last patch.”
Grenade speed was increased 10-15% in the Nov. 15 update.
Grenades need a 100% speed increase, minimum. A lot of engineer skills are completely pre-alpha in their animation speeds, jump-shot, net-shots, elixir-toss etc etc.
Completely agree! Three things would help out the class immediately.
- attack/animation speed of the supposedly faster attacks that go just as slow as the rifles #1 attacks (ie pistols, grenades)
- kits scaling with stats
- finally fixing the misses (and this includes but is not limited to the cone attacks as well as the new explosive radius bugs even before the bugs hit they nerfed the radius of the explosions to smaller then the splash damage of a thief’s dagger swings, even happened to bombs)
I do not disagree at all, I was just answering the previous question.
4 is a yellow burst
5 is a purple bubble.
Hear noise, see effect… Turn gfx up?
Engine kits replace weapon skills. So does an equipped banner.
What you want to do is add engine kits to warrior without replacing our weapon skills, in an attempt to homogenize the professions to make things “equal” and “fair” …
That is not how you achieve balance.
Paper beats rock, rock beats scissors, scissors beat paper. This is balance; no where does scissor get to borrow paper to dodge the rock.
my point exactly. if the mushroom is too squirrely foe you, try the dinosaur or the plumber.
1. You cannot ground target and control your camera at once. Once you right click the mouse dissapears and all ground attacks go to the position where the mouse was last scene on screen. This is bad control design. So the engy is not able to be mobile while throwing out sustained damage.
you and i disagree here. this is one of the best parts about the grenades and kiting.
you position cursor behind you 10 meter or what have you, then hold right click and WASD around, you know exactly where your grenades are, and can circle strafe around groups, kite them, even change directions mid fight because your AD turns into strafe instead of turn (that is, unless you were smart enough to already make that the default action, in which case no change).
when that group is dead, you … move your cursor! chances are you have breathing room again and can ranged nade some newbs by leading them to you, and then circle strafe all over again.
I. do. not. see. what. the. problem. with. controlling. your. character. is. yes. this. is. an. L2P. post. so. … L2P.
so, you guys remember that racing game with the plumber and the dinosaur and the mushroom?
you remember how, like, the plumber was pretty evenly balanced with acceleration and handling, but the dinosaur was really tight in the controls, but slow to get started, and then the mushroom was, like, the total opposite?
that game was kitten bullkitten, i mean, who do those designers think they are not making every playable character exactly the same.
absolutely unacceptable game design, IMO. people actually had to be better than one another to win in that game instead of having the most buttons to push.
my 24 years of in-home video game playing experience has stroked my kitten to the point where i know better than an entire team of educated and experienced developers. yarp.
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