Guild Wars 2

I dodge all the time with my FT, for example when I screw up rotation on #3 and #2 and need to build distance to let the detonation do its thing.

I love how everyone’s arguments about why each kit may or may not be "better" than another is the same rhetoric y’all use to complain why other professions are better than engie, as if each kit makes us a different profession.

YES .. IT IS OBVIOUS that EACH KIT is better at SOME THING than they are at OTHER THINGS.

pro tip: that’s the whole point.

kek. you guys can be funny some times.

if you got really keen at managing where your foe was in relation to your turrets you could play pinball with them between all your CC and accelerant packed turrets.

Kodiak.3281:

anyone trying to tell you it "excels" at anything is largely lying to you or doesn’t know better.

FT excels at:

- gold farming in CS
- tanking in dungeons
- spreading conds and distrupting zergs in wvw
- baking
- bbqing
- creating mayhem on points in spvp

I am not lying to you, and I do know better.

also, re: grenades being terrible to play... learn how to lead your shots better.

cheers.

re: napalm is a kitten to land:

yes it does require skill and timing like all engie combos; try this: fire napalm BEFORE knockback... timing is tricky but you end up throwing your foe IN TO the napalm, and they get hit twice by the shot trail.

afaik, you need a fine xmute stone. if you’ve tried that, then it may not be possible.
for me, knowing how xmutes work, I now have a lvl 80 toymaker bag and I regret not taking the goggles at char creation.

:s

MikeRiv.4031:

Kardiamond.6952:

@MikeRiv

Wow lol! Didn’t know we could play this game on a Xbox controller!

That’s a feat I think.

But I have question for you!

- How do you aim grenade ? or Any AoE targetted?
- How do you switch target vs a mesmer? With so many clone you must tab a lot!

I

Oh it’s quite simple.

How to use targetted AoE skills: My left trigger releases my mouse pointer so it moves normally, that’s how I can target while moving. If the target is close enough I dont even need to worry about targeting, cause my pointer is always in the middle of the screen, a bit in front of my toon, co I can even evade, turn or w/e and drop granades to enemies in front of me with no problem. If they’re farther away I just release the mouse pointer and aim while moving.

How to aim the right mesmer: When I press and hold my right bumper, it locks a target (it’s faster than you think), so I lock lock lock and when I lock the right mesmer I mark it. If I ever lose the lock, I can always lock it back again easily cause it’s been marked.

And it’s fun =D I use PGP for that btw.

I am so trying this later.

I just had an idea for a new build.

/mr. burns fingers....

yeas, excellent, I’ll see you on the battlefield Simpson! Smithers! bring me my vest!

Signet of Forums.4397:

MrForz.1953:

Decent builds without a kit, it’s nearly like Elementalists wanting builds without Attunements >.> But besides yes, 409 Based condition dual pistols scheme would fit you.

I took another look at my elementalist utility skills and I could not find attunement swapping in there. Turns out that you can have attunements and 3 utility skills besides. I figure I’m probably missing something in this analogy.

Yeah, I know, the toolbelt. The thing about that is those skills are tied to your utility skills, so that doesn’t really do much do address _number of "good" build options_, which I think is kind of the larger point. Of course, there is also a caveat with attunements, which is that elementalists choose their one weapon set and that dictates all of their weapon skills, which is another game mechanic that kind of bugs me a little, but that’s a topic for another thread.

On the other hand, I look at thief utility skills, and wonder why I would want to use some of them in PvE, ever, so I guess there’s that.

Right, but the toolbelt is still the right sort of mechanic to make up for kit swapping. Anet may not have gotten them to where they need to be yet, but the concept of a toolbelt skill that is "utility equivalent" that is tied to the kit makes sense. it allows you to make choices on kits for multiple reasons (hrmm, i like net turret because i get an immo skill in my toolbelt, i like ft because i get 3 free burns, etc etc).

then, other utilities like elixirs and gadgets have reduced utility skills on the toolbelt (RNG, im looking at you ... ) because the skills themselves are already utilities, so having TWO utility powered skills for the price of one would be OP.

and where these skills are placed is 100% irrelevant because you can rebind any skill to any key you want. there is no reason not to rebind your controls to put whatever skills you what wherever you want them.

NevirSayDie.6235:

eldain stenlund.4306:

how can an engineer run an enemy down ???

"“I see the question a lot where people ask whether an engineer can be played without kits, and if so won’t they just be weaker? And the answer is no, they will just play very differently" <--- you roll another class... "very differently"...

Flamethrower used to have an area pull as its 5 skill, so it was very, very effective at running people down. We no longer have much in the way of chase abilities.

i honestly think that the mechanic of Exploit Weakness trait *needs* to be built in to the FT, it needs to cripple foes to make them walk slower at all times. 1sc tick every other strike of the main attack, with opposing "other" strikes granting 1sc burn rather than just the last one. (crip/burn/crip/burn/crip/burn).

that or each successive strike of ft 1 on the same foe stacks the duration of the burn to make it last longer (ie make people GET OUT of the fire, staying in it is bad).

imo, this would make the FT complete.

and this is very true:

marnick.4305:

Random elements are disastrous in PVP based scenarios because they take away skill in favor of luck. Whatever you’re doing yourself should be 100% predictable.

unless the RNG elements are overpowered to compensate for their lack of reliability, there is absolutely NO benefit to RNG skills. As it stands, anet thinks our RNG skills need to be underpowered to compensate for their ’variety’

Naioby.3705:

nakoda.4213:

For myself, I use the Utility Goggles/Analyze option, because I have Elixir B on auto from the Alchemy tree.

Keep in mind the idea is to keep fury up 100% of the time, so you would also want to use medkit #5 cycling back and forth between medkit and ft and using goggles as needed.

I have speedy gadgets, speedy kits (because I have the 50% chance to vuln on crit rather than swift on crit) coupled with protection injection and deadly mixture in the alchemy tree. If I am in pvp I swap out protection injection for elixir S auto.

Then fireforged trigger and juggernaut in the firearms tree along with the +50% vuln.

I am constantly respeccing back and forth between 20 Tools and 10 explosives (for burn on crit) 10 tools (i stick with speedy gadgets) because I used speedy kits like crack while leveling, and it is a hard habit to break, but perma swift during combat is pretty nice with all the kit swapping.

It is a very interesting build, I would like to know what do you use against a thief that goes with the chain burst? I’m sure ur using something to stun him besides the crate, lets not mention crate because its a big CD. I usually go for the shield, but in order to trigger it I wait for him to start attacking me, some would even petrify me then I go Elixir S fast switch to FT burn him, smoke (blind), rocket kick, vent, and then... I go shield discharge to wait for him to hit me and get stunned for 2 secs. My drawback is that I need urgently to have rune of altruism available for PVP, I know devs are working on that since there were stuff they didnt add for PVP such as trident stuff, etc (as I read around the forums).

Yours attempts a high dmg because of vulnerability and I like it, but I would like to know what would you do to CC a thief cuz they have a very fast burst, melee range.

Also if anyone could please answer, Im curious about this:
does Static discharge has any condition dmg? or just plain dmg?

Tbth, CC thieve’s are a pain in my backside, but I’m not the only one, so my misery loves the company. Essentially for for CC thieves, I have both goggles (stun break) elixir R or S (stun breaks), med kit 4 (cond removal sometimes lucky enough to hit a CC instead of a bleed) and I have P/Shield as well for the blocks, knock back, and daze. It isn’t pretty, and they give me grief, but I console myself knowing that that thief is locked down trying to take me out and not someone else as I rampage through a zerg setting everything on fire.

If I have the prescience of mind to actually see the thief coming I will try to get a pistol 3 ready and fire it off on him as he starts his frenzy so that the confusion lashes back as his first strike or so gets to me. FT 3 is then wicked for keeping him at bay, ideally you want to keep any foe within the flame jet, not exactly at melee range, so anything you can do to knock them back is awesome. Sometimes I try swapping out goggles for rocket boots to maintain that stun break, adds burning, and distance,

so, rocket boots -> ft 2 -> ft 4 (they run through get burned on way back to me) -> med 5 (fury swift) -> P 3 (confuse) -> ft 2 -> ft 3 -> shield 5 ** throw (daze) -> FT 1.

note that the problems with FT 2 missing because FT 3 knockdown isn’t long enough.. you have to fire the FT 2 first and PUSH the foe into the explosion. timing is tricky, but as always, timing is critical for engie combos.

you sold me on a bayonette foe the rifle. omg please!

Kamahl.3621:

Tyaen.5148:

This is completely false. There are several builds that are great in WvW and don’t use grenades. I haven’t run a grenade build since the first month of release.

P/P Elixir build is my personal favorite, followed by a tank build.

Fact – grenades apply conditions better than pistols, bar confusion, which is what Prybar is for. Pistol is one of the worst weapons in the game for engineer to choose, and the only reason you should ever consider it is to gain access to a shield, or maybe blowtorch (although there are better utilities to apply burn). I could make a pick and choose montage of my WvW exploits that take literally 5% of the time those P/P vids to achieve kills – magnet/netshot/faceroll. P/P is an attrition build that only works on those without decent sustain, and to be quite frank, you’d go screaming with far more damage if you just ran rifle instead of pistols for your build. The only thing of note on pistol is the confusion – other than that, the damage is pitiful.

You wanna say grenades miss? They do, at long ranges during skirmishes. That’s what magnet is for. And net shot. And overcharged shot. So you won’t miss the freeze grenade, barrage, and shrapnel grenade. If things get hazy, you have the thinking man’s safety – Gear Shield. I won’t say elixir S isn’t great, it ensures stomps and saves lives. I drop elixir gun for it while WvWing more often than not. But to call a build that takes forever to achieve a kill in a skirmish scenario is not decent – not when, by comparison, someone with the same traits can achieve a kill time of 2-3 seconds (this isn’t even considering hundred ‘nades) by using better skills (read: kits). I’d sooner advocate static discharge than P&P. Heck, I actually could advocate HGH Rifle – between sigil of battle, some boon / might duration increases, HGH, and just using elixir B and your heal elixir’s toss, you can maintain 18-22 stacks during a fight (although half of those are from sigil of battle, admittedly, but still!).

tl;dr – there’s a skill floor, and a skill attic, and P&P is barely pushing your skill kitchen sink. The engineer really cranks off damage-wise once you start reaching the skill cookie jar.

Fact – the above post is full of opinion.

For myself, I use the Utility Goggles/Analyze option, because I have Elixir B on auto from the Alchemy tree.

Keep in mind the idea is to keep fury up 100% of the time, so you would also want to use medkit #5 cycling back and forth between medkit and ft and using goggles as needed.

I have speedy gadgets, speedy kits (because I have the 50% chance to vuln on crit rather than swift on crit) coupled with protection injection and deadly mixture in the alchemy tree. If I am in pvp I swap out protection injection for elixir S auto.

Then fireforged trigger and juggernaut in the firearms tree along with the +50% vuln.

I am constantly respeccing back and forth between 20 Tools and 10 explosives (for burn on crit) 10 tools (i stick with speedy gadgets) because I used speedy kits like crack while leveling, and it is a hard habit to break, but perma swift during combat is pretty nice with all the kit swapping.

a P/P/Elixir build is awesome in PvP when in the hands of someone who knows how to play.

Look for videos by Maskaganda.

indeed, and yet, as we’ve both mentioned, it’s the crits/procs that really count.

because there is a known bug with hitting stationary objects.

okay, but how was mistaking that the change happened later a form of paranoia? i honestly only noticed it after the warhorn nerf (and after having switched from war to engie), and i think i have a track record of being quite anti paranoid about the game on these forums ..

and tigerius, why so serious? also .. you only JUST used the drop antitode a week ago? i thought you had hundreds of hours on your engie?

arthur laffer ruined a nation by selling napkin math like this to an aging movie star put in front of cameras while dressed like a president.

sadly, the president’s advisers bought in to the laffer hype instead of paying attention to the real situation in the nation.

not the first tooltip error in the game.

ft hits 3 mobs in a vacuum if the engie stands still and the foes dont move.

try using it sometime out in the open when you are mobile and the foes are swarming around you.

theorycraft vs experience.

also (edit), FT is most effective with the foe kept at bay within the 425 range, not right beside you, so even though it is "melee" because it is short range, it isn’t meant to let your foes stand beside you.

and (edit), hitting multiple targets with sustained dmg from the FT#1 attack isn’t a multiplier, it is an additive, and each mob is independent. If one foe is targetted, and the engie keeps focus on it the whole time, that is one mob getting hit 10 times, and the rest of the dmg is certainly spread around the milieu, but

if 3 mobs were to stand still on one spot, and an engie opened up with a flame thrower, all three mobs get hit ten times (this is back in a vacuum scenario) while any adds running between you and the three will still take dmg from the jet stream.

Take farming CS for instance, it is not uncommon to be firing against 20+ foes at once, and the FT user strafing around the group will burn them all down. try farming during low population times for your server where you face the zerg alone and youll see what i mean (and make money doing it).

in wuvwuv the same holds for player foes, although the strategy changes because you yourself must be more mobile and active, and instead of being a heavy dmg dealer, your job is to frenzy the zerg and make smart players avoid you (lest they eat flame and all the fun procs that come with it), wasting their time and cds while the rest of your group hits up hammer time. i do this often, so im not just guessing about it.

in game experience is still the only valid experience.

this change happened in the december patch at the same time that they changed abilities like warhorn for warriors to only remove one cond instead of all. this was at the same time they limited aoe effects to 5 players/foes.

but ya, not a stealth nerf, just an annoying one.

i think the part that isn’t being calculated in is that rifle is against one target, bombs up to 5 in melee range, FT#1 has no limit sweeping through a zerg, single target dps is low but in large groups, the spread of dmg is significant, this is what i’ve been advocating.

5 foes groups up = 1211x5 because it is independently damaging each foe, so the more foes, the more dmg. a rifle would get overrun, bomb fares very well with large groups as well, but it is no secret that bomb kit (a damage kit) is stronger than ft (a support kit) at direct damage.

(support vs damage is based on how i see people using the kits, not the tooltip "device vs weapon" designations)

(ps, im glad your numbers fall close to my guestimate of 1250 dps, the ninja cast doubt on my assertions)

hmm, you may be right, perhaps my maths are off, and im just making myself feel better (i cant rule that out now that youve given me some actual feedback to chew on)

regardless of the dmg though, the real meat and potatoes of the build is the crit chance. you strike 10 times in 2 seconds, and every one of them can crit.

omnom ghosts, crit traits, battle sigil, etc, your analogy of heating up the opponent over time holds true. self justification never works on forums, but im not being a dick when i say i use the FT a lot and i dont find it substandard. though i do have issues, like lack of continuous burn on #1, and stationary missing, same issues everyone has, i do not find it weak and i do rip through zergs of foes in both pve and pvp.

sorry, (no lie) but my PC *is* substandard or i would twitch the day away for you all.

works fine for me. what exactly are you referring to when you imply that it isn’t working?

ya but a 5 signet warrior is also a glass cannon (typically) that doesn’t know how to use the rest of his abilities where a high crit FT build used by a competent engie is beastly because of its ability to spread dmg and conds through large groups of foes while allowing the engie to tank as well.

1800 pow
2000 pre
1800 tough
2800 attack
64% crit

knights armour w/ base 6might jugg stance.

average 1250-1500 dps on attack FT#1 before accounting for goggles sigils etc.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Flamethrower is the worst kit we have. It only has one thing going for it: the CC. If you are switching to flamethrower for damage, you’re doing engineer wrong.

just want to make sure this gem doesn’t unchecked, because it is straight up wrong.

the FT is not the worst kit, it is just a kit that Gates Assassin seems to know nothing about.

honestly, i don’t know why everyone says things like FT is kitten dps. I am *constantly* drawing aggro and controlling groups of mobs in dungeons with the FT while watching 500, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500 roll and stack through the attack (obviously im rounding, but typically i get 3-4 strikes sub 1k, 2-4 around 1200-1500, and 2-4 at +2k dmg ... PER STRIKE for a total of nearly 5-6k dmg every 4 seconds ... thats roughly 1250 dps which is good for a non dps build), and a bit less on targets not dead centre of the jet. It is such a powerful weapon and isn’t limited by LOS or even the 5 mob rule.. sweep that jet through a zerg and it hits EVERYTHING.

i only wish that the burns were applied through the whole attack and not just the last tick.

For my build, support means mitigating the aggro of the encounters so people can just dps willy nilly (and it works fine, i’ve never had problems).

tweaking the build and gear to make sure i am tough enough to take aggro took some tinkering, but that was the fun part of building the build. i am still tinkering with it and always will be.

FT#1 strikes up to 10 times each cast (2.25 sec duration, 5 strikes every second) and applies a 1sec burn at the end of the cast. With a crit heavy build, you then use +33% burn, +50% vuln, and protection injection traits mixed in with fireforged trigger, jugg, deadly mixture, and speedy gadgets (for keeping up fury with goggles). then, with accuracy and battle sigils, you have limitless might, ~64% crit WITHOUT fury (2001 pre currently, will go up when i get fractal rings on this alt), 2800 attack (with might stacks, it goes higher) and 1800 tough. vita in my build is lacking, but in a way it is comforting because medkit heals make it "look" like im getting a big heal ( placebos ftw ) *every* strike from FT#1 can crit and proc sigils and what have you.

With FT, Goggles, I then add elixir R (for dungeons) or S / U (for pvp). The R toss rocks in pve, plain and simple, even accounting for other players who teleport when downed out of your area, the other people who aren’t completely oblivious to their surroundings make mad use of it. Also, with Goggles and R you get 2 stun breaks.

it’s not about being carried by better players, this is a myth, a lie, a sham .. good groups are good because all players pay attention and work with each other’s strengths and weaknesses. it requires at least a base knowledge of every profession so that you know what to use when. you should be playing IN your group, not just being there WITH a group.

THIS is what support means .. be supportive.

(PS to the best of my knowledge, the FT kit refinement cond removal is self only)
(PPS i recently switched from melandru to rage runes, ill keep y’all posted on how that goes, but i realy think the fury up time and crit dmg will be super beneficial)

I use FT and elixers (not EG) with a crit heavy build that is also high on toughness. I end up carrying most of the aggro in dungeons.

I always have Utility Goggles equipped, with the FT kit, and I swap out elixers based on need. Typically I have R for dungeons and S or U for wuvwuv.

Ayestes.1273:

Conditions in general are bad in groups, but in particular the burn on crit option is very strong for us.

I agree, that is why I think it is most important only that there be certain conds, and thankfully they are easy to apply: bleed (because we get increased dmg on bleeding foes) and vuln (nothing ever wrong with increased dmg).

As long as your foe has bleed and vuln on them, they are suffering because the FT really hammers down on the “weakened” (in hash because i don’t mean the actual cond).

Burn is like icing on the cake, although I really do think every tick of FT#1 needs to apply a burn and not just the last. The 33% burn trait is nice, but the CD they put on it makes it less desirable for me over something like increased crit dmg in the Tools tree.

I will have to test later, but no I do not believe it works around the retaliation rebound.

Omnom Ghost Berries are your food of choice, forget the sigil or whatever.

66% chance to heal on crit (with no CD = lots of hps)), 70 pre, 15% exp.

Rezzet.3614:

nakoda.4213:

ft#1 hits 10 times in 4 seconds, ft#2 hits up to 10 times every 4.5 seconds.

with a crit heavy build, the duration of the bleed on crit trait is meant to be low to compensate for how often the ft strikes the opponent. this is also why the ft (much to the chagrin of our inner levitican) does not set foes on fire for very long. it would be over powered.

you are right, a competent guardian can keep a foe perma burning as well, but not every group has a guardian. plus, outside of dungeons (dungeons being the only place where a guardian makes the ft redundant) the ability to sweep through a zerg with the ft starts the bleed and burn chains for everyone else, and does so marvelously.

the ft is a support weapon that maintains conditions on foes allowing synergetic group dynamics for classes that increase efficacy based on foe conditions. it is not a warrior great sword, or a rangers long bow.

properly used, the flamethrower is a very powerful and effective weapon kit despite the lingering targeting bugs.

as always, of course other classes do things differently and under the right circumstances can do things better, but that same sentiment applies to engies as well. nee players ought not be dissuaded from playin with an ft just because the guardian has an F1 skill.

you must have an upgraded flamethrower or something lol.

nope, same one everyone uses. like it says above, FT#1 strikes up to 10 times, each capable of critting and thus capable of achieving on-crit procs from traits and sigils etc, and FT#2 hits as many foes as there are between you and the detonation zone, and detonates on up to 5 foes, and as with FT#1 every hit is crit capable.
the FT is a crit based weapon.
high crit is your friend.

but the way you are pointing is the way that you see things. the difficulty arises in mmos because every player sees and plays differently from one another and differently from the developers.

this is not meant to imply that your perspective is invalid but rather that this is why players break games, especially mmos. and, tragically, the problem actually compounds the older and more populated the game world becomes.

in a manner of speaking, the game world cultures itself (like a real society, or like a petri dish if you are a cynic like i am), but as such builds a series of traditions that are very delicate and fragile in their composition, but extremely hard to break.

making changes of any kind must needs be made with the entire culture in mind, carefully and calculated, or your petri dish becomes chimera without a belerefon instead of penicillin.

it is an incredibly deep and interesting phenomenon to watch, and more so when you trace these kinds of developments both within microcosms of games themselves and collectively within the macrocosmic genre of mmo as a whole.

. . .

perhaps enginner is the JTHM of GW2 and suffers the overflow of RNG in order to provide stability to the game as a whole. you may think i make mountains out of dredge hills, but i really do think the issue is as much a moral one as a technical one.

the benefit for FT and pre are your on crit sigils; earth, strength, etc combined with minor traits like target the maimed which only depend on there "being" a cond applied to buff dmg or whatnot.

i run a 0/30/0/20/20 build with P/S (earth/strength), i changed from 20/30/0/20/0 to exchange the explosives traits for +20% crit dmg and toolbelt recharge.

FT can be beastly with high crit.

when i am out of work and at a computerbwhere i can copy and paste i ill recnstruct the argument fornyou.

you are convenietly avoiding the parts of those two statements which indicates their distinction.

ie that it is a pre counter to the argument that since my role is to disrupt competent plyers (ehich i do) while killing incompetent players (which i do) may mean that all i do.is.kill nubs, which is wrong.

i can, have, and will kill anyone. but not "every" one.
next clarification?

(another edit, soz for typoes, irate furious typing on a touchscreen tends to tax my tactile tenacity)

that says that i do not pull people out of a zerg. it says i stay in the zerg. what part of in mens out
do you know what a preposition is?

"the mouse ran ______ the haystack"

practice by filling in the blank. if it doesnt fit, its not a preposition.

re: anyone vs everyone; these are compound terms. any. . . . one - indicates singuar ,

every . . . one is a plural.

they mean two different things.

when you read them in the sentences (constructs of words using grammar to imply meaning) you will see they are not contradictory.

kitten.
further to context and sentences, my original mention of other classes was aasuggestion to go play them, not a comparison.

i have not condraticted myself because, when read in concecutive succession, my posts all vlaim the ft is a viable aoe support weapon that is effective against zergs.

my comment about going in and out of zergs with swift etc was a cpmment about survivability.
of course i get targetted in a zerg, So I (me myself) dodge and run in and out to avoid dying.

what part would you like me to clarify next?

see spot run? run spot run!

where did i say im pulling people out of a zerf? i am *IN* the zerg. hitting people also *IN* the zerg. those competent players are forced to eat FT ir get out (and get picked off by those fancy 1v1 classes) while the nubs keep eating levitican fury.

i never claimed i kill *everyone* in fact, im clearly acknowledging that i dont. but i disrupt and interrup them while culling the "weak"

srsly. think about more than just you and your (non existent) dmg metwrs. its an mmo. be useful in many ways, not just one.

what game are you playing that your FT hits no one in a zerg?

i consistently roll in and out of zergs with 50% swift chance, vigor, and speedy kits.

all you have to do is sweep your ft in a crowd. hithithithithit

yes, good players know how to dosge, but the whole point of the ft is to cull the weak, so while good players waste their time avoiding your ft (and not attacking your siege force) thw weak playsrs die.

omg! you can only kill newb!

that should be your next argument, so my counter is. no, i can kill anyone. but my ROLE as a support/tank is to create mayhem that mitigates dmg for thebwhole group. i do that very well WHILE killing people.

what does that. have to do with what i said above?

this game is mobile combat group oriented in nearly every facet. i dont understand all the mewling

weve discussed this before, therr are no meaningful direct comparisons between professions because anet actively chose to design the classes differently (their levels of success in this endeavour. aside)

but since you persist, my ft aoe is better than a warrior aoe, because it it infinite, mobile, and stacks more conds.

im not comparing it to anything, or ibwould have compared it to something.

i also clearly mentioned that those numbers are in a perfect scenario, which almost never happens.

of course my numbers are with a traited and buffed ft, beause my ft is traited and buffed.

would you use the ft without an ft build or buffs? if so, why? why not just use grenades without shrapnel and grenadier as well.

i am fully aware of the effort it takes to stay glued to ny target for a full 2.25 seconds.
pretty hard isnt it?

but again, we face the difference of.opinions where you expect a supprt/aoe weapon to be superior in 1v1 combat, which is a completely unrealistic expectation.

however, against a zerg (pvp or pve) with a competent group of players, the significce of a perpetual stream of dmg that can exceed 10k dps once the ball gets rolling cannot be understated.

if you want to be that strong 1v1 i recommend checking out the more appropriate professions like warrior, thief, and ele.

Seetoo.9316:

Blaine Tog.8304:

1 deals a high amount of damage

This right here is the reason you should be ignored (or better yet "muted") in the engg forums (spreading such horribly wrong information).

FT is practically (understand what "practically" means) a melee weapon that does a little over 1/4 melee damage. If you consider FT ranged, it does about 3/4 range damage (at a really limited range).

I got a lot angrier about this today because I recently did the jormag event and picked up the event FT. How is it possible that event weapon MISSES LESS on stationary targets (ice pillars you need to destroy so golems can get to claw of jormag) while our own FT still misses so often. That really kitten me off when I tried both FT’s out.

in a complete set of Knight armor (pistol, shield, all trinks and armor) with a full set of melandru runes, and a base 7 stacks of might with juggernaut, FT#1 ticking 10 times on an opponent will do approximately 4500-6000 dmg with a 56% crit rate and 863 cond dmg.

With Utility goggles and 12-15 stacks of might, FT1 does approximately 5500-7500 dmg with 10 ticks.

With 17-20 stacks of might, it can hit for up to 10k.

Thats every 4 seconds.

Thats also applied up to 5 times to varying degrees based on where in the cone your foes are.

A potential 50k dmg every 4 seconds.

I don’t now about you but that isn’t "low" dmg in my eyes.

Is every battle 100% theory perfect? No. But if you play well, and if you use the FT, you’ll be aware that it does *significant* damage to groups of foes both PvE and PvP.

This is not even accounting for the tick 10 burn on FT 1 or for incendiary ammo, which applies a 3 second, 1700 dmg burn (with the above gear) to the next three attacks.

as for the miss bug .. ya it is annoying, but it only becomes a problem in some cases, and on all stationary objects, there is a way to dmg it, they all have a "sweet spot" (no we shouldnt HAVE to find it, but at least it is there until anet fixes things)

Aristio.2784:

NaturalPortman.9562:

CptCosmic.3156:

dont agree about the bomb suggestion, freeze bomb wouldnt be a good idea. a melee kit needs a way to prevent damage and the blind plus stealth blast finisher is perfect for that. also the bomb kit has movement control via glue bomb and you can use other abilities from rifle/pistol/other kits for movement control.

FT needs to be fixed. the burn on the last hit misses too often thus damage is wasted.

pistol should actually do an AOE bleed like stated in the tooltip.

FT should burn on every hit like a kitten flamethrower does....

I sorta agree. 1 second burn on every other hit would bring this weapon where it should be. 10 seconds worth of burn would be a bit much.

just to respond to this and clarify what I was saying.

Let’s say you open up on a foe and burninate them; unless they stay within your flame for the full duration of FT 1 (this obviously includes the engie moving and aiming because no one stands still), they will not get burned.. at all. The 1 sec burn only applies to the 10th tick of FT 1.

Remember that Burns increase duration, they do not stack, a 3 sec burn with 2 sec left getting overwritten by a 3 sec burn is only going to last 3 more seconds, the dont "add" in that way.

So then, what I was suggesting was that the first strike of FT 1 burns for one second, 2nd = 1; then the third strike (if the opponent is still in the flame *AND* already burning) would apply a 2 second burn, and so on, up to a max of 5 seconds (I thought saying "5sec burn is plenty" would indicate this).

In this way, if you get a full 3 second 10 strike FT1 on a foe, they burn the whole time (not at the end) and they walk away with a 5 second burn assuming you dont hit them again. Remember, burns dont stack power, just duration, so while within the FT1 attack, the length of burn applied is irrelevant, they are supposed to just burn, then, the faster they get OUT of the flame, the shorter the duration of the burn they have to contend with.

I am not suggesting we get *more* conds, simply a cond that lasts longer.

Take a look at Incendiary ammo, it applies a 3 sec burn to each of your next 3 attacks. Let’s say you apply IA, and then fire your pistol 1 three times (one sec each, accounting for lag drop), you end up with 3seconds of burn during the attack, and a single 3 second burn after, not 9 seconds. Essentially, the middle flaming bullet is wasted.

Same thing happens to FT 1, if you apply IA to it, the first three strikes apply a 3 second burn, but those three strikes happen in less than a second, so you only get 4 seconds of burn instead of a theoretical 9.

So, with the change I have suggested, a) you wont have to waste your toolbelt skill on FT 1, and b) you can better use it with other abilities (like .. throw your daze shield through a small zerg and get three foes dazed AND burned for 3 seconds, i love doing this btw).

regardless, I have little expectation that any of these changes come to pass. but if FT 1 were to apply a burn the entire time, it would at least make sense. what we have now is ...

HE HEE im coating you in liquid flame! ... but you aren’t on fire ....

NaturalPortman.9562:

CptCosmic.3156:

dont agree about the bomb suggestion, freeze bomb wouldnt be a good idea. a melee kit needs a way to prevent damage and the blind plus stealth blast finisher is perfect for that. also the bomb kit has movement control via glue bomb and you can use other abilities from rifle/pistol/other kits for movement control.

FT needs to be fixed. the burn on the last hit misses too often thus damage is wasted.

pistol should actually do an AOE bleed like stated in the tooltip.

FT should burn on every hit like a kitten flamethrower does….

yes. yes FT ahould burn every hit. FT#1 strikes up to 10 times and each strike should increase burn duration: 1,1,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5 so the longer the foe remains in your flaming party, the longer they burn when they get out. 5sec burn is lots. this would compliment traits like exploit weakness.

though, i dont have issues with the laat strike missing.

the modern steam punk engineer archetype is an evolution of the mad hatter archetype.

absolutely we are tinkerers, gadgeteers, and explosives exp...well we like to.blow thimgs up.

but stationary, quiet, boomsticks? i just cant see it.

frankly, the abovr comment about "army rangers" is why warrior does in fact fit the role of sniper more than any other profession.

engie rifle is shotgun-like and not a shotgun because anet probaaly didnt have time or resources to make another weapon class, especially one specific to just one profession, sobwe get a rifle instead. but shotgun certainly fits the bill more than a rifle, and especially more than a sniper.

SilverWF.4789:

Zenguy.6421:

FT#1 – Much improved after the patch.

What patch and what improvements?

january 28 patch; improved tarhetting of rectangular aoe abilities. (paraphrase)

this fix greatly improved the flamethrower’s hit rate. other than stationary objects (still bugged, but there are workarounds) there are no problems with ft missing. nome that i’ve experienced in the last two weeks.

this fix also improved the hit box for pistol#4 among other things.

curious, what part of an "engineer" screams "sniper" ?

tbh, your idea is pretty kitten cool, but sniper just doesnt seem flavoured by engineer at all, but maybe ranger or thief.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Honestly, the flamethrower feels really strong to me, overall. 1 deals a high amount of damage, 2 is a massive explosion, 3 is good if you’re being zerged, 4 can give you a very long burn, and 5 is an instant blind you can cast whenever you want, totally for free. Which isn’t to say it’s perfect, but its problems are mostly bugs. ANet needs to fix the bugs before buffing the kit because doing both at the same time could easily overpower it.

1: it needs to stop missing all the freaking time. That’s all.
2: I get an "Obstructed" message on this if my target is even the slightest bit off the same vertical plane as me. That’s dumb. It would be nice if we could detonate it, but I’d settle for it detonating _at all_.
3: it’s good, but sometimes I feel like it just doesn’t belong here. It knocks them out of 1 range and they aren’t disabled long enough for 2 to hit.
4: maybe it could activate a little quicker, I dunno.
5: I do think this skill is fine. Being able to activate it through disables is extremely powerful. I just wish it weren’t useless against dredge.

if FT#2 detonated when it hit your target (selected not just first object) it would increase strategy options as well as resolve the issue with FT#3 not disabling long enough, and noy dramatically change the functionality of the whole kit.

id like to see FT#4 apply in a line out from the engie in the facing direction, not perpendicular at targetted location.

if FT#5 then became a combo field, the whole kit would be kitten solid

(edit: currently, to counteract the range of Ft#3 knock back, i activate at abouy 2/3 FT#1 range, dodge back and fire FT#2. the foe generally runs right into the explosion)

ft#1 hits 10 times in 4 seconds, ft#2 hits up to 10 times every 4.5 seconds.

with a crit heavy build, the duration of the bleed on crit trait is meant to be low to compensate for how often the ft strikes the opponent. this is also why the ft (much to the chagrin of our inner levitican) does not set foes on fire for very long. it would be over powered.

you are right, a competent guardian can keep a foe perma burning as well, but not every group has a guardian. plus, outside of dungeons (dungeons being the only place where a guardian makes the ft redundant) the ability to sweep through a zerg with the ft starts the bleed and burn chains for everyone else, and does so marvelously.

the ft is a support weapon that maintains conditions on foes allowing synergetic group dynamics for classes that increase efficacy based on foe conditions. it is not a warrior great sword, or a rangers long bow.

properly used, the flamethrower is a very powerful and effective weapon kit despite the lingering targeting bugs.

as always, of course other classes do things differently and under the right circumstances can do things better, but that same sentiment applies to engies as well. nee players ought not be dissuaded from playin with an ft just because the guardian has an F1 skill.

with utility goggles, 10-15 stacks of might, food, and a mixture of rampager and knight gear, my FT auto attack rolls up from 400 to 2000 dmg, an average total of 4500 dmg per auto attack.

throwing napalm into a group of foes hits for 300 with a 2000 explosion... at 5 mobs, thays 11500 dmg in a single attack that is on a 4.5 second cooldown.

the fire wall may not do much for dps, but it’s combo for allies increased their attacks significantly, but hard to give you numbers.

FT is a support weapon, as such its dps isnt top drawer, but it is certainly not insignificant. and, with bleeds on crits, burns on crits, vuln on crits, and cripples for near death foes, the FT offers a great deal of dmg output potential.

play hard. play smart. burninate things.

the engineer is about the kits. still, there are viable builds for pistols, turrets, and elixers you dont have to use kits, but (to maintain thread cohesion) why not play an ele without attunements? just use skills!

fun kitten

(edit, lol kitten is censored! thats kitten funny.)

pracrice dummues behave like destructible objects, which we know to still be bugged.

in open world pve, the flame jet hit box is so wide you hit everything in (approx) a 160 degree arc (that is, almost beside you) There ought to be no issues if you are even remotly facing your target.

ive never used auto target, so i cannot speak to the differences.