Guild Wars 2

there you have it. I just threw them in there since sigils ate really selective and personal anyway. until I read this 50% crit business, I always ran accuracy & strength.

ill have to find the info.

soooooo,

purple people eaters DO exist. . .

awesome, with the EG I would want more con dmg too, i tend to stay in ft to swap in other abilities like net shot as needed, jump shot to gain ground. with all the cc I’ve got, im often in the sweet spot for for constant burn and bleed application.

I get super giddy when warriors actually try to run away.

video game or not, people fear fire. it is hard wired into our genetic code. fire bad!

re: sigils, afaik on crit and on swap are separate timers.

many of our builds are a mixture, however, and i believe this is the premise of the engineer.

here is a spec (traited for FT, but the gear and whatnot is what I am pointing to) that maximizes both comd dmg and power, while sitting near that 50% crit mark.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/engineer/?2.1|a.1o.h1h.a.1o.h1b|0.0.0.0.0.0|1o.71j.1o.71j.1o.71j.1o.71j.1o.71j.1o.71j|4v.d18.3v.d18.2v.d18.3v.0.2v.d18.2v.d12|a5.u58b.0.k67.a2|2s.7|2d.2w.2h.2r.0|e

i’ve read somewhere that 50% crit is a sweet spot, in regards to then building other stats, so it has made me rethink my 83% crit w/ fury build.

anyway;

POW 1804 (w/ 875 from might, assuming 25 stacks) ~ 2679
PRE ~ 1993
TOUGH 1746 (w/ 200 jugg) ~ 1946
COND 837 (w/ 875 from might, assuming 25 stacks) ~ 1712
CRIT 55% (w/ 20% from fury) ~ 75%
CRIT Dmg ~ 66%

over 3500 attack power and 35% dmg reduction, … WITH over 1700 cond dmg and perma fury resulting in 75% crit rate.

for an FT user, this is .. awesome.

Naioby.3705:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Never once in this thread did I ever say that Sigil of Strength is a better choice than Sigil of Battle. My only contention was you trying to say that Strength only gives one stack of Might every ten seconds when it actually gives 5 (or 6 over 12 with Boon Duration buffs).

Either way, like Sporadicus, I’ve made my point. I’ll give you the final word here.

Sorry, not to bother you or something but, I never said you only get 1 stack of Might every ten seconds, I said you only get one stack of might every 10 ticks which happens in 2 seconds (I used chronometer and its 2 secs since the first hit to the 10th last hit, not 2.25 as wiki says)

This is what I said:

Naioby.3705:

… in conclusion you can ONLY receive one stack of might per 10 ticks of 1 Flame Jet shot

you can get up to 2, actually, if you are lucky enough to get a crit on the first pulse and on the last, each proccing the sigil. I HAVE DONE IT.

did you remember to account for animation times in your chronometer test? or did you just stopwatch from tick 1 to tick 10?

No, I sPVP alot and do many fractals. I have Elixir S set on auto with the 25% health trait, and I have it on my utility bar for stomping opponents. I am often using it to get out of a melee or massive fray so that I can take a second to remove conditions before getting back in the fight.

Now, I have a 6 year old dual core pentium and only 2 gigs of ram. so, I play at very low settings (medium “distances” minimal “textures” minimal “lights”) so perhaps there is something to that?

funnily, I have never had this happen to me, and my engie rocks elixir s all the time.

PAH! what a boronic name. (i hope you get my joke )

Hexx Skellington … Necro

Benn E Violence … Engineer (a pun on benevolence)

Ambi Violence … Elementalist (a pun on ambivalent, as in multiple valences not a lack of regard)

Pippen Longpockets … Thief

the difference is that you leave ft because you don’t like it.

I swap out to net shot or medkit briefly then im back in FT. jugs might “loss” is minimal.

Vuh.1328:

nakoda.4213:

with only 20 points in alchemy and no +duration runes you can self apply 9-12 stacks of might with just juggernaut and enhanced performance before firing a single shot.

I was just playing moments ago.

Forgot to mention, i did my test without either enhanced performance or juggernaut, just to keep track of the sigils

indeed! cool. I will have to try battle again. it’s honestly been awhile, but Ive always fared well with strength. I have 63-83% crit (fury), so strength procs frequently.

yes, I did mean incendiary powder.

with only 20 points in alchemy and no +duration runes you can self apply 9-12 stacks of might with just juggernaut and enhanced performance before firing a single shot.

I was just playing moments ago.

all sigils work with kits equipped.

You apply bleed because of the 5pt minor trait in firearms.
You are really reducing your dmg by not having incendiary ammo.

Try Rampager’s gear in sPvP.

this is benny in sPvP with rampager amulet and 6pc Runes of the Forge

10 points in Alchemy 10 points in Tools
= perma swift/perma vigour.

everything else is icing on the cake.

it’s pretty basic math, yep.

10 second buff on 2 sec cooldown.

Regardless of crit proc rate, that means a potential for 5 concurrent stacks during a prolonged fight such as boss encounters, farming, or point defense.

with 40% boon duration that is 14 seconds per stack, which actually adds another stack and a bit to the “permanent” might stacking, so sigil of strength grants around 6 stacks.

sorry im not a calculus major, Naiboy, and I am glad you have a girlfriend and all (but let’s be honest, no one here gives a rat’s kitten where you’ve been or who you’ve been with), but your attitude is kitty litter.

a traited FT user can look forward to:
sigil of strengh can stack up to 6 times.
you can get up to 6 stacks from Enhanced Performance
you can get up to 8 stacks from juggernaut.

the average, traited FT user will roll with an average of 18-20 SELF APPLIED might stacks during the average fight. I often have 20-25 because of contributions from other players. In PvE I show off how lazy I am being if I have LESS than 25 by myself.

Sigil of Strength may only be 30% chance per crit, but when you have 80% crit, that is a 24% chance on EVERY ATTACK to apply might. which means that on average, every 2.25 second FT 1 strike will apply 1-2 stacks of might. On paper.

In actual game play, it procs all the time. You do not have to sit there and spam it.

TK Takaishi.6270:

Ayestes.1273:

Yeah I’m not entirely sure why they gave Prybar a boost

God forbid engis actually get something really good for once

you kitten your mouth right now before someone hears you and sends word to the forum police and you and everyone else who posts in this thread disappears in the night.

oh god .. i’ve posted in this thread!

how about questions about the actual state of the game, not just one part of it?

1) What is the sit-rep on ArenaNet’s development krewes? (who is working on what? [don’t need names obviously but “team A is here,” etc.] How are they faring? [focus, moral, progress], etc.)

2) How long until a PTR is made available? (a PTR is an excellent vehicle for player/developer interaction and an indispensable tool for developers to keep the game current, particularly since player-testers are willing to suffer bugs rather than cry sour grapes about them)

3) From the developer’s point of view, what is the biggest challenge they are currently facing? (that is, specifically, not just “managing profession balance,” but rather i.e., “finding a way to fix the Asura Engineer using Elixir S camera bug without breaking camera collision for everyone else” or sommat like that.)

Advent.6193:

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

We began talking about Teyo and ended bickering over colleges.

You’re all imbeciles. If I had funding from the Arcane Council and enough turrets to keep the Inquest away I would just build a college of my own to surpass and engulf the current status quo in magitechnical progress.

It’s a shame that the Council is too in cahoots with the Inquest to hear me out.

And they wonder why I favour the Grand Sovereign Agenda … It’s honestly the most
logical endpoint of Asura superiority.

As your future Grand Sovereign, I approve of this message. Your invoice for the royalties for using my future title will be in the mail. It will include a charge for potentially accrued interest based on current estimates pertaining to how long until I am Grand Sovereign.

catqeer.1954:

Your mother’s IQ is so low she thought Divinity’s Reach was how far a divine being can reach.

Your mother’s IQ is so low she thought tengu meant ten goos.

But in all seriousness your mother is rather intelligent after all so are most asura…

Your mother’s IQ is so low she clearly taught you that humility is better than bravado, intelligence, poise, atavistic eloquence, and sheer good looks.

She was wrong.

The young woman selling cookies in Lion’s Arch has a higher IQ than your mother.

one can never have too many pry bars.

Aristio.2784:

I agree with some some of what you said.

It would be very unique for us to have two forms of every Tool Belt skill, and would make up for the “50-50” split they have going for us right now. Where a Utility Skill’s functionality is based off of both Tool Belt and Utility slot.

So from what I understand, you want to give us three abilities per Utility slot? So we would have:

Elixir B
Tool Belt:
Elixir B before use
Elixir B after use

not quite, I suppose a tldr summary might clarify:

kits: utility slot = toggle; belt slot = stowed or equipped state
turrets: utility slot = turret; belt slot = skill supplement or detonate
elixirs: utility slot = elixir (tossable); belt slot = cond mist
gadgets: utility slot = gadget; belt slot = skill supplement

changes proposed are as follows:

kits = toolbelt stowed vs equipped state
turrets = cooldown fixes and target control
elixirs = tossable utility and cond mist belt
gadgets = grant stun break and add teleportation device

when I get home, I will add this tldr to my post!

well, there is the chance they could be clever enough to only “weaponize” the weapon kits, and leave device kits as utilities.

maybe make weapon kits = backpacks so you get one weapon kit, and can equip multiple utility device kits, and retain 2 weapon loadouts.
. . .

…con’t/1

Turrets already function this way (net shot, surprise shot, rocket, shockwave), and our group buff sharing combo fields are precisely why we can detonate them at will. there is perhaps logic here as well as to why the cooldowns are so long. spamming our buff combo fields may be abusable, also .. i personally wouldnt want to have to play like a vanilla WoW pally constantly having to rebuff everyone. that said, cooldowns are ridiculously long and need to be adjusted. also, if I am an engineer who uses turrets, I want to depend on them as much as a ranger depends on his/her pet. I should be able to dictate its target, I should be able to pick it up and move it without penalty, but if you must have one, I think that the timers should be scaled:

picked up: 15 seconds
opponent destroyed: 30 seconds
self destroyed: 45 seconds (fair for the buff rotations, no?)

We could then alter the T2 Inventions Trait Autotool Installation to both regen turrets automatically as well as provide that much missing 20% cooldown reduction (12, 24, 36 seconds).

I should want to maintain turrets with the toolkit because it would be worth my time, not a frenzied race to pretend like I can repair the kitten things before they fall apart. The timers as they are now are a slap in the face like we are being forced to crawl around and pick up the pieces before building another turret. If I can fit a flamethrower, a wrench, a refillable box of nails, a jug of napalm, a spear, a harpoon, a net, a prybar, an unlimited supply of bandages and elixirs, and a rifle on my person, I think it is reasonable to assume that I can fit several deploy-able (yes, anet, it is hyphenated) turrets in there too. Fix the cooldowns.

Now, since starting this post I’ve become fond of this idea of mist effects, so let us extend the notion to our Elixirs proper. Let’s be honest, elixir toolbelt skills are an exercise in redundancy that makes two buttons out of what ought to be one, that is, why can’t I just throw my elixir from the utility bar? Drop the RNG, make the elixirs apply all the buffs youve given them (adjust timers to compensate), and allow us to throw them. In general, reduce all of the timers by 10% (and leave fast acting elixirs as is, so that it still applies a 20% reduction to the new timers in addition to this reduction). The toolbelt skills then, so as not to be redundant, and to be fun, will mist out conditions to foes, making our elixir builds more deadly, and offering more utility to builds that have only one exlixir.

Elixir B? Weakness and vulnerability. Elixir S? Haste, yes used as a debuff (!hehe! cant catch me!). Elixir U? Drop the RNG crap, give us Stability and Quickness for 6 seconds at the cost of 3 seconds of Haste and Quickening Zephyr. Its mist toolbelt skill can apply Frenzy and Quickening Zephyr to foes. Elixir R? A blinding mist (specially designed to refract the light of the sun one thousand times brighter!) that blinds nearby foes so that you can revive allies (a blatant rip off of the thief ability, or what have you); Elixir R proper would be its current toolbelt skill on a 90 second timer. Elixir C? Confusion. I would also merge the end regen which was formerly part of Elixir R in this model to C, so that it converts conds and refills endurance. In order to balance this, limit the cond conversion per ally to 3. Drop the RNG, for the love of video games.

Finally, we have gadgets. To be honest, these utility skills already have two useful states, and already fit within the framework I have suggested. With the exception of landmine (which I would drop and turn in to the bomb kit’s stowed toolbelt skill), I would not change much. What I would do, however, is grant EVERY gadget a stun breaker. I would remove the self cripple from Rocket boots (and from overcharge shot) while retaining the gap creation ability. I would add a pulsing 1sec cripple to slick shoes oil slick. Battering Ram ought to daze its target for 2 seconds.

Since landmine is reduced from full utility (assuming you think it is one, lawl) to a toolbelt skill, it needs a replacement, and so I give you: PDA (Personelle Delivery Attenuator). This is a portal that functions like mesmer portal, something I can safely say we all want, that the profession needs.

And for the love of Pete (hi Pete!), no RNG please.

/2quid

Feel free to savage my ideas and make them better, faster, stronger!

The following is a wall of text. I apologise, but press on and you will be rewarded. Maybe. Also, the topic is too long for one post. Soz!

Abstract:
kits: utility slot = toggle; belt slot = stowed or equipped state
turrets: utility slot = turret; belt slot = skill supplement or detonate
elixirs: utility slot = elixir (tossable); belt slot = cond mist
gadgets: utility slot = gadget; belt slot = skill supplement

changes proposed are as follows:

kits = toolbelt stowed vs equipped state
turrets = cooldown fixes and target control
elixirs = tossable utility and cond mist belt
gadgets = grant stun break and add teleportation device

I am going to preface this by saying that I like the engineer as it is, which is to say that the mechanic of kit swapping, supplemented with toolbelt skills, gadgets, elixirs, and turrets appeals to me. The addition of the toolbelt as a kind of compensation for the lost utility slot is a very good idea, in my opinion, but many of the skills are more like “having an app for that” than they are part of the “operating system”. That is, for all my defense of this class (which will never stop), I still recognize the problems we have.

In all of our discussions about how to improve the engie, we have brought up each and every facet of the profession and offered changes, but we’ve never looked at the toolbelt separately from the utilities to which they are linked. We have only ever talked about them as these add ons rather than as skills. this is because the toolbelt skills do indeed under perform. I do not think that the class needs a redesign or any major changes. I believe that the class needs bug fixes and balances and minor changes in order to bring the engie into a more cohesive unit, one where it doesn’t feel as though each of the possible specs are competing with one another because they all under perform in one way or another.

It is my firm belief, then, that the toolbelt is where the problem lies with the class, and not with the kits or other utilities. What follows is my take on what could be done to the toolbelt skills to improve our versatility rather than hinder it as they do now.

Remember: These are just ideas.

I like our mechanic of kit swapping. I think that the toolbelt skills need to be worked on, and buffed so that they are more reliable as utilities. I get why they wanted RNG, it makes the toolbelt more “versatile” in a way by overloading it with potential as a compensation for the loss of a utility slot. Yet, our performance is bottlenecked by an algorithm rather than left in the hands of the player. The RNG has to go. There is no place for random effects in a game where player skill determines the performance of the player’s character. If I push ABC, the only thing that should stop me from achieving result XYZ is intervention from another player or from an npc opponent. If I push ABC and get MNO instead of XYZ because of some unreliable element on my side, that makes me a liability to my krewe, period. The RNG has to go.

I envision the toolbelt as the place where I hang my kits and elixirs etc, when they are stowed just like, while I’d rather not use external analogy, Batman’s belt. As such, I think that, for kits especially, the toolbelt skill ought to reflect the state of the kit, equipped or stowed. For example, the elixir gun’s current toolbelt skill is a healing mist similar to the healing turrets regeneration mist. What if, while stowed, the toolbelt skill recieved a cond removal as well (heal+cond removal every 45-60 seconds). Then, when equipped (since there is super elixir handy), the toolbelt skill achanges to add poison to the next three shots. Similarly, a stowed flamethrower could have a “vent heat” that does aoe dmg in a small radius, and while equipped we get the incidiary ammo.

You could still use the toolbelt skill, then swap and retain the buff for a different weapon, allowing mixtures of attack types happen. toolkit would have a stun breaker while equipped (“ha HA fools, you tried to stop me with my toolkit at hand!”), and throw wrench is a perfectly acceptable equipped utility, especially with the power wrench trait. More brainstorm; grenade kit would keep barrage during equipped state to maintain the rhythm for 100nades, but the stowed state could be something useful like a smoke grenade that grants a bit o stealth, so you can bamf, back off a bit and set up for your next barrage cycle now that it is on that pesky KR timer. The land mine utility could become bomb kit’s stowed state (because let’s face it, land mine has many uses, but an entire utility slot it should not take), and big ole bomb would retain it’s titanic poise. Medkit is already set to fit within this framework. (Remember: these are all just ideas, and I want them to be as simple to implement as possible for Anet)

1/con’t…

I leveled up with pistol, RFreak, without issue. just because the rifle has more cc doesn’t make it “better”, only “different.” your advise sounds more like dictum than suggestion.

play how you want to. no one forum.opinion is the.final word on any matter.

in general, power up while leveling, it is the easiest trade off. as you scale and start to trait out, the engie becomes very unwieldy because of how spread out our trait combos are, but if you stick with dual pistols you’ll find that a mixture of condition damage and power become important.

If you search the forum for Maskaganda or anything about pp hgh (also “pphgh” if you want to maximize the search) you will find many discussions on how to become a little fiend (assuming you made the right choice in making an asura).

Zenguy.6421:

The kits are weapons – even sigils recognize this.

Apart from Med Kit which isn’t a weapon set. But that makes sense as it’s switching from attacker to medic. (Except for its Kit Refinement, which is a blast! – wtf.)

i think you missed my point, and the overall point of the thread.

and, technically, not all kits are weapon kits. there are device kits as well (guess what, grenades are a device kit, not a weapon kit).

what if kits WERE the weapons? you can pick two kits, or a kit/rifle or kit/pp(s), or rifle/pp(s).

that is, what if we equipped kits as though they were weapons, instead of adding more buttons to push?

keep in mind, our toolbelt is specifically intended to compensate for the kit’s utility slot (regardless of bugs or needed buffs, which are certainly a current problem), so any change to the kit mechanic changes our toolbelt efficiency as well

I run with 63% crit before fury, and 100% fury up-time when im not playing like a tool.

also, since “boons” appear to be anet’s engie mantra, it’ll be a long shot to get them to buff dmg and negate might stacking.

ya, but Power Shoes does not fit into the ft meta. but now I want it to… sigh.

re: might vs fury; I know, my point was that even though the ft is in the PRE tree, its main dmg is from POW because, as you point out, pow scales both our dd and cond, so to remove the might from jugg would cripple us.

way op with 25% move speed, plus the might stacks are essential since POW is you maim dmg scaling stat. pre is for proccing crit effects (incendiary ammo, strength sigil, /lamentationforomnomberries, etc)

I think that to boost dmg, hugh should give 10 might stacks, and deadly mixture should add a bleed (ie, the mixture prevents the fire from cauterizing the wounds)

weakness is a good call (confusion would be like cake), I just picked cripple because I always have a vision of hollywood fire shots with arms flailing, wacky and waving.

also, crippling foes as they charge you allows you to maintain a controlled backwards step and strafe.

knock backs and roots are how we defend from melee. I used to use shield for blowback but I like having access to a plethora of nets.

what about a 1 sec cripple within 100 range? (ie, the panic of being coated in liquid sin forgiveness)

zinwrath;

I use rifle/medkit/ft/goggles(rocket boots)/net turret/supply crate
I use the rampager’s amulet, or rabid or berserker’s depending on runes.
I (currently) use a full 6pc forge rune set, but I also use either water/monk/lyssa or strength/rage/hoelbrak; im at work and typing on a phone sucks, so when I get home ill clarify the differences.

I get the aggressive writing thing, I picked up on it (because i do it too) and bit my tongue after posting “a-buh?”.

my full build is near the end of the post your build thread, like yours it is always being tinkered with (I’ve always chalked that up to the flavor of an engineer), but the ft can be a devastating tool.

well, Zinwrath, I disagree because all I do with the FT is sPvP and I consistently enjoy a top score position on winning teams. It is not uncommon to fend of a zerg attack on a point while my krewe hustles over or, conversely, to disrupt a defending krewe.

I make a point of sticking with my krewe, however, and support them by keeping foes off and by being a meatshield.

the killer thing with FT is its crit rate and synergy with might stacking, so you can go full rabid if you really want to beef up and be a bunker and still rock 18-25 might stacks.

Honestly, I seriously doubt you’ve spent more than an hour trying the FT and giving it serious consideration (just like I’ve never used. PPHgH build, so I suck at it). My point is that your preference of something other than the FT does not make the kit broken and useless, it means you are better off using something else.

if yyou can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

a-buh?

“greatsword vs hammer is dps vs tanky cc; but grenade vs ft is dmg vs dmg”

do you even read the same words as everyone else?

I think this thread has gone pretty far to distinguish the nades as a burst dps and the ft as a tanks weapon with lots of cc options.

we’ve shown how its single target dps is approximately that of the rifle, we’ve also shown how the ft does more dmg against large groups AND explained numerous ways to utilize the ft with other kits (like eg) and gadgets and elixirs; just like every class, engies come with many options, and I think that gs vs hammer is a very apt analogy for nades vs ft.

I think the history of my posts shows that I have been advocating the FT for quite some time now, and yes I got massively buffed because lifesteal food is irrelevant in spvp.

25 range in game is not on top of you, but beside you.

I don’t tpvp with a flamethrower, because the ft is best with larger groups, just as I prefer roaming in wvw. on my warrior I use a banner/warhorn in wvw and a rifle/signet spec in spvp. the game not only allows you to spec differently, it encourages and rewards it.

retaliation us ad to any channeled attack, yes, kinds nice that air blast doesn’t do damage when you knock away the sob with retal, then net shot and move away while the buff ends. or any number of ways of dealing with it.

It seems to me that you expect to barge in with the ft and burn everything tobthe ground in a kind if spray and pray. the ft is far more strategic than that.

Magnet Pull, cuz im probably not close enough to do anything yet anyway. I am an engie, like I’d ever get initiative when I need it.

(this is irony, a joke, since a free magnet pull is exactly what i need when i needed it)

zugly.9035:

I present to you the link that doesn’t work

the link works fine, he was making a joke, i hope, about how the best way to balance your engie is to take no skills or traits along (ie: pacifist).

johnsonade.9547:

love the build, love the video, love the music too. I live in fear of asura engineers.

that is because asura have been eugenically engineered for generations to garner grotesquely gargantuan levels of genius, gravitas, and gusto. you should fear us. we destroy the world!

Zinwrath.2049:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Zinwrath.2049:

it has no way to slow people down or stun them to prevent them from being on my face except for one knockback that puts them outside of my #1.

I just wanted to say: Flame Jet has a range of 425. Air Blast is a 400 range knockback.

Used correctly, it does not put anyone outside of your Flame Jet’s range.

First, there is no correct or incorrect way to use an ability.
Second, what your saying would imply the only time you should use Air blast is when they are INSIDE of you.
Third, advantages to this ability include.
Fighting mellee champ but they are pwning me and i need to buy a second for another CD to come up or energy to dodge roll.
I am near a cliff and want to knock someone off it.
A ranged champ used some unload dps ability on me and i want to knock it back in their face. (no they will not be inside of you)
And also, someone is rezzing or about to stomp my friend. I can knock them off of them.

But if your goal is to flat out do as much damage as possible, and your fighting someone who doesnt want to fight you at mellee range, using air blast is helping them and knocking them out of the range of your primary damage.

But i agree that it has its uses as listed above (very good uses infact), just dont think it works as well as the ability they removed from the kit “backdraft” sucked people INTO you….seems like that would synergy with the rest of your kit. Drop firewall, suck them into you, blind them, do damage. But they didnt like the idea that the flame thrower could Blow and Suck…(and i mean that metaphorically as well as literally) so they removed the Suck and kept the blow. When it should have been the other way around.

EDIT: for the record backdraft was the original 5th ability. It was semi OP in some scenerios as it could pull multiple people much like the Gaurdians 5th ability that does that only AE, and does damage, and is a combo finisher…..and cc…..Nm, backdraft was totally legit.

i swear people don’t read, they just react.

No where in ANY post has Phineus EVER claimed that ALL he does is seek MAXIMUM dps out of the FT .. EVER …

He and I have both maintained consistently that the FT is an effective weapon that deals reasonable damage at the cost of higher survivability and utility over other specs at our disposal which offer less mitigation but higher damage output.

The arguments over damage have been to assert that claim, and Seetoo’s own math has confirmed that the FT is actually higher DPS than a rifle. The argument then became over whether the FT is ranged or Melee (only one “L”, beeteedubs), and I still assert that FT is as much a melee weapon as the Mesmer GS (which is to say it isn’t; it is actually a ranged/projectile weapon).

So, since the main FT attack does as much or more dmg as a ranged weapon (within our class, let’s not mix warrior rifle and engie rifle, dont be that guy with irrelevant logic), and does considerably MORE dmg at close/mid range with multiple opponents, then I think it is safe to assert that the FT is a viable and engaging weapon that is useful, aggressive, and also fun to use.

Anyone who claims that fun has nothing to do with success in a video game needs to rethink why they play video games.

edit: also, any ONE of the reasons to use the FT that you listed are EXCELLENT reasons to have the FT slotted, and only serve to contradict your lackluster disappointment with the kit.

Zinwrath.2049:

Exactly, in SPVP these situations you mention do not happen, its 5v5 so rarely are you fighting “large groups of enemies”

Actually, they do happen all the time in sPvP, that was my point. 5v5 is tourny play. I play spvp/pve explore exclusively these days. love it. ranged player kiting you? get in his face, make hate you. if you are on a point in sPvP there are RARELY any situations where players will be out of range because they will be trying to crowd the cap. people are stupid that way, exploit it. remember: you are playing people, and people are often dumb, use that to your advantage. (disclaimer: i make many dumb mistakes myself, we all do)

Zinwrath.2049:

*Cant tell if your trying to be insulting or not with this so i’ll pretend your not. I am not getting miss messages for firing where the targets are not at, i am getting miss when my flames go THROUGH them as i run STRAIGHT AT THEM ..FACING THEM. *

Sorry, but I have never seen a miss while running straight at an opponent, ever. Only time I am missing is when an opponent does the “run through your avatar” and make me have to 180, during the spin there are many misses. You know why? because I am not facing my enemy, not because the game is broken.

Burst attacks do not hit very hard when you stack toughness. Rabid gear might be a solution for you. pre/tough/COND, then focus a lot on might stacks, maybe?

Zinwrath.2049:

Exactly, its really good for using, then swapping off the FT to use something else. Which brings me to the whole point of FT not working together, your better off using it for its CC or fire wall then whipping out a good weapon untill those abilities are off CD, staying in FT is a bad option, because the primary attack is …bad. … ALso this mid range combat jargan, Its ranged…not mid ranged. Its mellee or ranged in spvp. Your using wvwvw or pve talk. Most ranged combat in spvp happens at no further than 900 range, and doesnt stay there long as people move closer or teleport onto you.

It is actually really good for staying in FT, the swap is actually to assist the FT, and I am talking about sPvP, I have been the whole time.

FT3 > Net Toolbelt or Rifle 2 if on CD > FT2 > Vice Versa on the snare > FT1/strafe > FT3 again (guess what, traited it only takes 12 seconds)

only one example of how to use it.

Zinwrath.2049:

Tossed down with an oil drum? I said at start my opinion is entirely based around spvp, which explains a lot of your responces, your not grasping that. This put on ledges thing etc, offers no advantage in spvp people dont stand still and just chuck stuff at you like in wvw.

Also just one example of how to use it. We can both play the “i dont wvw” card, but that does not mean that tossing an FT3 down with an oil drum when IN wvw is pointless. any scrubs dumb enough to stand at the gate will have extra burn and extra burn duration because of the toss. I said it was an example, not the be all end all of strategy.

Why did you take this all so personally?

Frankly, in WvW i would rather run a roaming build like PPHGH or Dementia, but in WvW if you are squadding with a good team, then you are awesome dmg and cond application by skirting the edge of zerg forces spreading fire around like I said before.

The point of my post was to illustrate that your claim which says that FT abilities do not work and do not work well together is wrong. They do work, they do work well together, and I am sorry they do not work well for you. Maybe FT isn’t your flavour of ice cream?

I use the FT exclusively in sPvP as a top point scorer (been at it a month now, only rank 16, sorry, I don’t play 24/7), and consistently act as an anchor on points for my team by keeping the points clear of foes.

You are right, any one player might show up and burst you down using their combos. This can happen to anyone, but a good player will have his CC and stun breaks ready with cond removal to remain in the fight until back up arrives. The FT thrives fighting large groups, and in sPvP you can face up to 8 people at once, not just 5.

Zinwrath.2049:

I cant speak for PVE, i imagine FT is atleast decent option there for something.

SPVP however it doesnt cut it.. It used to be worth grabbing for the toolbelt skill in condition builds. Not really sure i could see myself giving up any essential tools to make room for it on my utility bar.

that’s fair, but I’d wager that this is because the way the FT is most effective is not the way that you play. You see, the FT is most effective mid-range from large groups of enemies, not melee range and not bow range, mid range.

Zinwrath.2049:

the #1 skill

there is a difference between running sideways with your camera facing your foe, and with strafing sideways and facing your foe. Most miss issues occur when you are not facing your foe. The cone of FT 1 is widest at its apex (naturally), so when you step back and strafe around a group, you are more likely to distribute more damage. as you practice with this, you will find yourself corralling your foes like cattle within your flaming fury. it works.

Zinwrath.2049:

the #2 skill

I’ve noticed this as well, additionally it seems to bug out and strike twice at max range. like medkit swap effect with KR, this’ll get fixed eventually.

Zinwrath.2049:

the #3 skill

Makes perfect sense when you start using the FT for what it was meant for. Mid Range combat. The point of air blast is to keep your foe away from you. If you combine it with net shot from the rifle, or net turret toolbelt, or net turret itself, or any other kind of CC available to the engie (which is aplenty) then this move makes perfect sense, because they are kept mid range to be struck by the widests spot of yoru cone as you move around and singe their short n curlies.

Zinwrath.2049:

the #4 skill

this wall could use improvement, yes, like dmg or a cripple in addition to the burn, but it’s wall shape provides you with a buffer to keep your foes on the move, while you strafe or run back and forth through this wall, keeping the foe on the other side of it.

this is only one example of how to use it. it can also be fired up on to ledges to burn foes with a height advantage, or tossed down with a oil drum to add extra burn duration to the attacking force.

Zinwrath.2049:

the #5. skill

I cannot disagree with you on #5. it is a good skill that could be better.

Zinwrath.2049:

Toolbelt skill.
Boring but good for condition specs.

So there you have it, some pros and cons there for ya.

Our toolbelt skill with FT is one of the best burn applications in the game, and with the added burn on FT3, it got better.

Zinwrath.2049:

Biggest issue with the flame thrower is its abilitys dont work together.

FT abilities can be used well together, you just have to know how to use them. They are designed with the intent of keeping your foes at bay, grouped up. Played well, it does this very effectively. Played poorly, it does not.

There are numerous situations in sPvP and WvW where I find myself staying out of the main fire fight, strafing around the fringe of a zerg or cap squad, hitting everyone and spreading fire around like levitican confetti.

it is not a burst playstyle, it is a mayhem creating playstyle.

Lurock Turoth.9085:

I am here to show all you poor little engies that your class isn’t broken because of its glitches nor is it locked into single roll builds. I’m no engineer, my engie is lvl 47 what I am, is a psychotic build crafter with a pension for making good damage ultra survivable builds on any class I touch.

im not always that guy, but I think you meant a penchant for making new builds, not a pension. a pension is a retirement dispensary and a penchant is a knack for habitual behaviour. im not being a dick, just saying in case you had an incorrect definition in mind.

Any one on Dragonbrand that has seen
Fort Aspenwood Invader[FLOT] knows first hand the devastating power of some of my builds (zerker warrior with the gold armor you know who you are).

So when a guildie who is also one of you overly attached engie lovers complained about the lack of good builds and all the bugs and nerfs on engie, I set out on an epic quest to make a build that would stop the endless whinging in our TS channel and bring peace to the realm.

What I came up with breaks the laws of science and is all but unkillable (yes that’s a word…now)

Meet The EOD tech!!!!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelsp6ZHwSfF87ISoH2nEqWieUZPml9pAAA;TsAZUCokQpiSBFlXGvEeZ9y5l0LA

This build has been able to survive and stay in front line combat that only the toughest of bunkers can withstand and unlike bunker builds (or crappy tank cats) the EOD tech keeps up consistent damage between 1k and 3k per bomb while healing him (or her) self for about 750 hp a second.

For this build you will need full Ascalon Catacombs Power Toughness Vitality gear with the runes of the monk that come on it. A mix of exotic carrion and soldiers jewelry. Ascalon Catacombs Power Toughness Vitality pistol and shield with a sigil of leeching (best sigil in the game) and a sigil of purity.

Get this gear together and bask in the glory that is an invincible damage dealer that would make 55 monks look like child’s play (look up 55 monk on youtube if you don’t get the reference).

If you would like to see this build in action feel free to whisper me in game and if one of my guilds engies is around we will be happy to take you through the dungeon of your choice or into wvw for some havoc squad action (server permitting).

but +1 for sales savvy.

Seetoo.9316:

It is also misleading to omit saying that hitting more than 3 will lower your “per target” dps. On average you will hit 3 targets for 10 hits each, 5 targets for 6 hits each, 6 targets for 5 hits each, 10 targets for 3 hits each. You will never hit on average 5 targets for 10 hits each.

this is where you miss the point though. if FT 1 hits 3 targets per pulse, then any more than 3 targets lowers your “PER TARGET” dps, not your “OVER ALL” dps.

A(10×3) and B(5×6) both equal 30, but in A, the per target dmg will be more. this is not misleading.

of course you never hit 10×5.

but the over all point is that ft 1 can “hit” up to 30 times every 2.25 seconds against 3 or more foes, at a maximum of 3 foes per pulse over 10 pulses.

You yourself went to great pains to correct me on this, i don’t see why it is an issue again.

Allister.9426:

I had lot of fun watching your video! I main a Mesmer so I really love confusion builds, and this one I have to say seems to works to my playstyle. I really like being close combat, since I find range a bit dull(which is why first and secondary alts are Guardian/Warrior). This makes me wish I made my Asura Engineer right of the bat!

Here, I put your build in GW2BuildCraft! Which is a really nice theorycraft site too, I like this one better than gw2skills, I’ve been only using it for a couple days, but its great!

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/engineer/?2|a.1h.h1k.a.1h.h1j|0.0.0.0.0.0|1h.711.1h.711.1h.711.1h.711.1h.711.1h.711|2x.0.2w.0.3w.0.3x.0.2x.0.2w.0|k38.k57.0.a4.k68|30.d|e

I really like the stat display on the right frame.

here’s mine for comparison:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/engineer/?2|4.1o.h1b|0.0.0.0.0.0|1o.7i.1o.7i.1o.79.1o.79.1o.71h.1o.71h|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67|k5a.u58b.0.k67.0|3j.7|e

i’d like to see napalm fire straight out from the nozzle of the ft like a stream of greek fire so that my asuran engie can run around peeing fire on people while laughing maniacally

the animation could be glue shot like in effect, but I like the “line” it creates a safe zone that you can strafe side to side through while your opponent is forced to pass in and out of it.

i also +1 the idea of a cripple on #4

SmoothHussler.6387:

Vyxion.6358:

nakoda.4213:

the other consideration in the calculations is the AoE dmg; bomb and ft are both AoE weapons, technically.

But since I am not a numbers guy, I put it to you, Seetoo, should the potential DPS of the FT#1+FT#2 be factored by their maximum number of targets (Bomb kit as well)?

I am not sold that more targets reduces sustained DPS though (i do agree it does less per target with more than 5 targets, but the overall sustained dps ought not be changing just because there are more targets). Since tests are meant to be controlled, isn’t FT1 3x whatever it does to a single dummy, and FT2 5x, since they can hit that many targets before losing any single target dps? Likewise, Bombkit/nadekit should have its DPS factored by up to 5 since a single bomb/volley can hit 5 targets for the same amount?

FT1 isnt a 3target hit skill, it hits 5 like normal aoe’s do rather than like a cleave attack.
Something else i really like about FT as well is the fact the FT1 keeps on doing dmg, theres a smaller ammount of “overdamage” so to speak. There’s more effective dmg than when you compare it to the grenades.

Let me explain this:

Lets say you are grinding an event with a mass ammount of mobs (lets say 30 are alive at once) and you throw in grenades. You throw them in waves, not continuesly. When the grenades land they do a set ammount of dmg all at once on a set ammount of targets. If some targets died in the progress all overdmg done to them was lost and you’re not dealing extra dmg to remaining targets till the next wave of nades.

Flamethrower is different. It’s more like a pulsing aoe. The dmg comes in 10 waves per attack (rather than the grenade’s 1 attack 1 wave). lets say some targets die in the middle of the flame jet then the remaining waves of the flamejet simply start hurting other targets, losing less effective dmg on said dead target and doing more effective dmg because it dynamically switches to live targets even during that 1 attack.

Nades don’t do that.
It’s a terrible thing trying to throw maths on but it’s a very important thing to note when comparing the 2.

That was a very informative post. Thanks for this.

um, FT#1 hits 3 targets, not 5 (I was corrected about this earlier), it hits each of the initial 3 targets for the same amount of damage between pulse 1-9/crit independent (I was corrected about this earlier as well), and when you start adding a 4th, or 5th, ot nth mob, per target DPS begins to drop (I was corrected about this earlier also).

All I was asking was whether that means that the potential dps for FT#1 ought not be calculated based on maximum potential output assuming three mobs or not (as should bombs, since they also hit up to 5 targets).

I wasn’t spreading misinformation, Seetoo, sometimes people discuss things in order to learn.