Guild Wars 2

for what it is worth, and also following ANet’s track record with patches and changes, I think what you can expect to see are future adjustments that bring other skills around to work with the new KR … all in good time.

i cannot remember which interview i read it in, but i distinctly recall ANet saying that they do their best not to just alter numbers or change text, but rather they actually change mechanics in order to create balance and progress along their game’s vision.

so i sincerely think that the new KR (as unimpressive as it is compared to the old one) is an example of this progressive development.

EmmetOtter.8542:

Whatever happened to
You’re dumb and you’ll leave a dumb corpse
followed by something painful

it was, it did, and I didn’t even purchase a requisite nutritional supplement before hand.!

I think that siege weapons are a different category than projectiles in combat.

one of the most common complaints has been about how weak our kit damage tends to be. it seemssto me like engi rune 6 is specifically to compensate. also, touch and cond help all engi builds.

my advice for fighting an engie:

run, simba! run away and never return!

from my brief testing, it seems deployable turrets only uses the old tooltips, but the turret itself is the new one.

easiest test is thumper turret. deploy it, and see if it applies cripple.

Rfreak.6591:

@nakoda.4213

Do you understand what the last patch decided for the engineer? The global cooldown alone means a whole lot.

And if you didn’t understand how useful the previous Kit Refinement was then there’s just no argument to be talked here

There is no argument here at all because the old KR is gone. And regardless of KR, there have been no changes to our ability to swap kits.

Rfreak.6591:

Being forced into 1-kit builds the engineer doesn’t seem that appealing any longer compared to classes that can weapon swap just fine and are probably more versatile than we are now.

why are you forced in to one kit builds? did they add a restriction last patch only allowing you to take one kit at a time, or did they change the kit swap timer to no longer be instant?

far as I can tell, kit swapping still works as it has since .. ever, so if you could elaborate, that would be wonderful.

or this …

Ayestes.1273:

I’ll be honest, the primary reason I attend these forums any less then I used to is because of the pessimism around here that I feel is unjustified when looked at in a mature and rational way.

i think that one thing everyone needs to consider is that a “full basepoint build” with many engie builds takes 50-60 trait points. That said, they all perform better if you actually mix and match the traits.

Sure, you can have accelerant packed turrets that have extra armor, regen, range, and deployability, but as you say, this comes at a cost to the engie.

so maybe instead of deployability, since the new timer makes it a pain to have to recast them every 5 minutes or so, take metal plating and accelerant packed turrets, and then you have 40 points to spend elsewhere.

Keep in mind that the idea is to keep your turrets alive and functioning through the fight, so you do not necessarily want the foe attacking them, you want to be the one taking damage, so you really cannot afford to ignore your own traits. also, since the majority of your fighting is in range of your turrets, rifled turret barrels is a bit much since you will always be in range.

You could have a nades turret build, an ft turret build, a rifle/toolkit turret build. it all depends on how you want to operate yourself in between your turrets.

I never said that dbl pop had no use or no strategy, I said that you were fooling yourself to think it would stay.

l2read.

no..

KR has nothing to do with the “ability” to swap kits. it refines what happens when you swap, once every 20 seconds.

IMHO

exploiting the double pop on FT 2 did not qualify as “playing smart” but relying on a bug to “improve” yourselves. the same goes for all the “lost” KR builds, they were all built on the premise of capitalizing on Anet’s ridiculously slow response time on bug fixing.

anet ought to be faster at fixing things, but a “smart player” wouldn’t have painted himself into a corner with broken skills.

20 years of MMO experience makes “smart” play, not jury-rigging exploits.

swapping kits is about more than just the KR old proc. We have 5 kits and a host of abilities therein which form our combos.

ya, it might suck if you relied on a T1 trait to make or break a niche build premised on the unintended (that is, i am not calling people cheaters, quite the opposite) exploitation of a broken game mechanic.

but…

that is spilt milk not worth crying over. the new KR provides different effects and function in a different way than it used to.

our ability to swap kits and chain our abilities remains unhindered. the loss of 3 over-relied upon effects is not a class ending ordeal.

MrForz.1953:

nakoda.4213:

killshot is a warrior ability.

Yes, and from what I just said, Warriors are authorized to deal massive damage. That’s my point.

and people call me a troll…

google is trolling the engi forum by claiming to have found a new super ability, and how he needs to keep this ability secret because anet might nerf it.

he is attempting to be hipster ironic since anet has no intention of nerfing warrior’s kill shot for precisely the reasons you have stated.

(my first post was more to try and clarify, it seemed from your post that you missed google’s troll, which clearly you didn’t… )

essentially, the new KR is just a small effect that you can trigger once every 20 seconds.

this requires you to be conscious of the 20 second timer since there is no on-screen display.

It no longer matters what kit you are in or what kit you want to swap to (assuming you are in combat and have been in combat for 20 seconds).

All you have to do is press the keybind that equips or stows the kit you want to have the effect from.

ie: medkit = q; after 20 seconds, and you want magnetic aura, just hit q. EVEN IF YOU ARE ALREADY IN THAT KIT. “Stowing” the kit will also proc KR.

The issue is pre combat kit swapping which triggers your GCD, meaning if you are the kind of player that prematurely uses all of their abilities before combat, as if setting up some monster burst like an ele, then you are going to butcher your combo rotations.

The idea that KR and Speedy Kits don’t synergize well, does not bother me. Technically, since they are both first tier traits, they are not necessarily meant to work in unison with each other, but presumably with higher tier traits in the same line.
→ (Yes, I am aware that there are many instances of T1 traits working together, such as pistol/rifle range and CD in the firearms tree (IV and VI), but I honestly do not think Speedy Kits and KR are supposed to be used together.)

There is no penalty for swapping kits during combat, there never has been. None of the kit swapping combos that we have used (except the 100nade barrage, double cleanse, and Super Elixir Double proc) have been broken. EVERYTHING else still works.

MrForz.1953:

“Yeah well look, if you’re not kittening happy with me you’re free to kittening leave, if you knew better you’d have just used your kitten elite and I wouldn’t have gone through this skill mess in order to get you through”

Of course, nobody will care if we can bring some safe ranged DPS with a Net on 7s cooldown for situations like the Fractal Dredge Boss or that we are very solid overall. People will literally make threads in here saying that the Engi is a waste of a class slot for everything. I’m not giving appreciations to all the FoTM’s I kill, no matter how overpowered we are.

you realize that by giving us kitten tools and make shift supplies for jury-rigging results, anet has actually fostered within us the disgruntled mechanic mentality and so we act as engineers while playing our engineers.

MrForz.1953:

google.3709:

I just blasted this ranger’s face with an 18,937 killshot, they nerf 100nades but not this! can’t believe it

You know what’s funny? It’s only because Anet said that the Engineer wasn’t supposed to deal high amounts of damage, no matter how clunky these builds are.

killshot is a warrior ability.

i believe they are suggesting that if you have 12pc engi runes you are getting double buffed?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/The-Levitican-FT-Rifle-Support-sPvP-Build/first#post1711094

here is one of the ft specs used in spvp.

waka.9826:

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for using a variety of builds but grenade kit by far surpasses anything you want to do with flamethrower kit.

like what?

top end dmg? No one has ever disputed that.

but the Ft is superior at point control and damage mitigation. the best grenades have is a chill. you need other traits to add CC, reducing the room you have for cc removal.

ft has ft 3, 5, and is often paired with a rifle for rifle 2, and 4. add in a net turret and you have even more cc.

PLEASE, everyone, STOP trying to compare the two specs as if they were supposed to be the same. they are not. they are for different ways of playing. mace guardians do not complain about having less over all dmg than other guardians, but they bring different things to the table.

same thing for ft vs nades.

nades = high dps, some control.
ft = high control, some dps.

why is this so difficult for everyone?

@Fairtex

I have been running an FT build since forever

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/The-Levitican-FT-Rifle-Support-sPvP-Build/first#post1711094

and I recently made some changes after the patch.

Namely, I have replaced elixir S with the rocket turret, and am now setting my rockets up in similar placements to yours. the added CC from the rocket knockdown is immeasurable, and the extra burn never hurts the FT builds.

I still struggle with more than two opponents, especially more so since I no longer have invuln or safe-stomping, but I find that not having the oh-kitten button makes me more conscious of my surroundings and enemies. That all said though, nothing is more entertaining than watching an unsuspecting foe who has never dealt with turrets before make the slow agonizing run from the front of the cap to the back as my net turret and rifle stop them every few seconds and pelt them with rifle fire while my rockets goes hard, then i blow them back into the middle again with the ft and rinse/repeat.

as with Grackleflint, most intelligent players would return with new strategies, but I still made life difficult for them.

I am having much fun with an FT+2 Turret build now. I have no changed my traits, and i have always used 6pc forge runes like you.

Chaosky.5276:

To be fair, water itself does more damage to many substances than this trait.

water is often underestimated. not even mountains can bunker out a sustained water attack.

it’s got everything to do with l2p because if you want to use the kit refinement trait you are going to have to learn to play with it as it is.

this is not trolling. this is truth.

tangent; a big kitten-you to whomever openly said on the forums they’d be willing to pay for custom arenas.

edit: but at least they’ve got their cash cow for pvp now.

i guess it makes sense, from a technical standpoint, since they can’t exactly let you host “the” game on your home pc.

were none of you here when laurels came out in january patch and people had already finished their monthly?

qq some more about your QoL grind?

ft (rifle, or +eg)
nades (bomb, or toolkit)
pp (HGH, or condo duration)
tankcat (moar prybar ne1?)

+ all of the other variations people talk about

and now,

+turrets and their combos.

what, exactly, have we been pigeon-holed in to?

and now you only have to track one 20 sec timer instead of 2-3 (or more!) timers each 10 or 20 seconds long.

it is a QoL buff for YOU not the kit.

funnily enough, I don’t see any of you with MSc in your sigs indicating you are professional software developers.

point being, just because I haven’t trained it (because my ft build doesn’t use it) does not mean that I know nothing about it, just like your lack of a degree (I am aware someone might, im just making a point) does not negate your gameplaying experience.

you guys keep pointing at my sig in a pitied attempt to salvage face because I am adamantly arguing against you using the real in-game functions of the new KR that you all refuse to accept, an argument that so far hasn’t actually been resolved.

KR has changed to fit the devs’ plan for the engie. the way it works is how you have to work with it, like it or not.

Your ability to swap kits and chain abilities has NOT been nerfed in any way. The removal of the internal ghost cd on KR was a BUFF from last patch. The alterations to proc effects change not only the uses of the kit but the way the kit is used.

if you don’t like the changes, tough love, but you are not being given a multi-tiered choice. Use it, or don’t.

And stop with your puerile “omg his sig is newb” kitten. it makes you sound like you should be playing Pokemon TCG and not an mmo.

google.3709:

he hasn’t tried to so he has no idea of how it works or how it used to work, personally i gave KR a try for Frac 38 + sPvP… KR is completely broken! it is nearly impossible to find the effect you want unless you only have 1 kit .. this problem with this is that engineer’s hardest hitting skills are on kits… and med kit is too good of a heal to replace for anything else

no, I don’t use it because my build doesn’t use it. not because I’ve never used it or do use it when testing different rune/sigil/trait combos.

am I the only one constantly trying all the options to find which I like most?

Resouled.5614:

The speed only works in combat and since your target isn’t attacking you the speed won’t benefit you at all. Besides that glueshot into magnet is a waste of glueshot the immo on impact is way more important. Anyway it’s just 1 example there are way more. It’s about having to use KR skills when they’re not optimal.

you describe a kittenty situation, and that is a solution using the tools you provided. like it or not, this is kr now. try to adapt and find new ways of using it. this is the game the devs are giving you.

is the speed in combat only intended? a bug? can you use other gap closers than a self inflicted RNG?

it means that using the ft for an hour i had fun, enjoyed myself, and earned points.

that is what playing this game is about, no?

gfy. i always play hotjoin in the morning before work. nothing wrong with team deathmatch once in awhile. it is still a valid test, especially for the FT where you have more opportunities for larger groups than tpvp.

wtf is all y’all problem hating on the game so much? go play something you like.

in my eyes, the point of the ss proc is to close ground to make sure that magnet hits. it’s a 2 second burst…

or, i could dodge closer if i was in a panic to reach the guy.

what other kits are you running? bomb? eg? nade?

maybe id toss down my glue shot, then toolkit, speed up, magnet him into the glue, prybar, pistol 3, pistol 4, carry on business.

just because the timing is changed doesn’t mean that combos don’t exist. you have to fit the pieces together in a different order to keep pace with the metronome.

just spent the last hour in hotjoin, 6 games, 1k glory, 4 wins, 2 losses, two matches with over 230 points.

had fun, don’t see why you all mew about the ft. it is awesome.

@oakwind: i hear you, but I do not think that is really valid.

people are in outcry because they feel the game they are playing is being gutted.

okay, maybe it is, but the price of admission to a game is accepting that what you about to play is what the devs are putting in front of you, not the other way around. think of console games, or .. any game that is not an mmo. yes, the devs listen (many more so than anet ever does, i grant you that), but the end product is what it is, people who dont like it can kitten off. that’s just how it is.

playing that racing game, you didnt write the devs saying: hey, my spiked turtle looks cool, but should be faster off the start and less tight on the corners. a) the devs wouldn’t respond, but b) if they did, they’d say … so play the mushroom.

Seras.5702:

nakoda.4213:

so I use ft for flame aura, then switch to medkit, to ft, to medkit, to ft, etc, and now it’s second 18, what do I do?!?!?!?! im in ft kit but I wants my flame aura proc!

just press your ft keybind (stow and proc) and again to equip again. why the kitten would you have to CARE about any other kit?

every 20 seconds you press any kit keybind for the kr proc for that kit regardless of what you have equipped.

What happens when you want that flame proc but you really need to heal? You swap to med kit, heal up, swap to FT…ooops, no aura proc…all used up needlessly when you swapped to med kit to heal yourself and got a KR proc that you didn’t want/need….guess you don’t get flame proc for 20 more secs…hope you don’t have to heal again then.

You can’t rely on KR anymore. Now it’s just a trivial bonus. Hopefully it’s something good when you need it.

I am in FT, want that fire proc, but gotta heal too! :

a) my KR timer is up: I hit FT keybind, get shield, hit medkit keybind and heal, all in a second.

b) my KR timer is not up: I hit medkit, heal, hit FT when KR is back. heck, why not switch to rifle or some other kit in the meantime if it is STILL on CD.

I know that in, example, 4 seconds KR is going to be up so I manipulate my rotations so that whatever combo i am working on leads me into the FT kit at around the right time, or, in a pinch, i might end up having to make a judgement call and deal with some extra speed or a projectile shield this rotation because it just didn’t work out.

it is that simple. instant. kit. swapping. be adaptive.

• Kit Refinement trait: Reworked kit skills to balance their effectiveness. All kit skills are now on a static global recharge (20 seconds).
  - this is the important part. what this says is that when you pick the KR trait, you are equipping yourself with a hidden utility that you can activate once every 20 seconds. Every 20 seconds, you are eligible to receive a buff on equipping a kit. It doesn’t matter what you have equipped, all that matters is what button you push. If you are trying to save a proc for a particular situation, then you are not getting the most out of KR.
  eg: you want to save medkit proc for that panic moment when you need extra defenses. – okay, that’s cool, but in the meantime while you don’t need it, you could be using it on something else more pertinent like glue trail or magnet bomb.
  - my point is that intending to save the proc is all well and good, and sometimes you are going to get shafted because it is on cd.
  - Think of it this way. the new kit refinement is a unique kind of RNG, where the R = you.

The changes are as follows:

• Med Kit: Equipping this kit applies Magnetic Aura.
  http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Aura
  - says dura 5 seconds; BUT, that is the basic tooltip.
  http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kit_Refinement
  - dura 2 seconds. this KR proc is not an “oh kitten” emergency button, it is pressure relief when jumping in to medkit in order to drop bandages while retreating.

• Bomb Kit: Equipping this kit creates a Magnetic Bomb that pulls enemies toward the center after a brief delay.
  - the combo possibilities with BoB have already been discussed in other threads.

• Elixir Gun: Equipping this kit activates a Glue Trail that follows the player for a short time. Enemies that step in the glue are briefly immobilized.
  - immobilized, not crippled. more cc? yes please.

• Tool Kit: Equipping this kit grants the user Super Speed for a brief duration.
  - handy for chasing kittens and you are just out of magnet’s reach at the start of the chase. only one example of a useful situation for this proc.

• Flamethrower: Equipping this kit grants the player Flame Aura for a time.
  - every flamethrower user wants more fire. at least i do. and who doesn’t want an extra might stack?

• Grenade Kit: Equipping this kit drops a mine at the player’s location that deals damage and removes a boon.
  - the “removes a boon” part is pretty swell, especially if you’ve just magnet pulled someone on top of you and you swap to nade bomb them with your toolbelt barrage.

• Skills that activate this trait can now activate in midair.
  - a bug fix, now you cannot exploit the jump to avoid proc bug.

edit: if you are in a quandary about swapping kits because you need that proc for something specific, then you ought not have painted yourself in to a corner. with instant kit swapping there is no excuse not to be able to think through three to five kit swaps within a 20 second window of opportunity.

what do you have to say about the turret changes in the patch, Fairtex? Had a change to dig in yet?

timidobserver.7925:

Flamethrower is not fine.

I will have to heartily disagree here, because “not fine” is meaningless.

Could the FT use more love? Of course it could, a couple more combo fields, and maybe a bit more top end dmg on the FT1.

These are minor, though. the ft is versatile, durable, and reasonably powerful.

when used in combination with a toolkit/eg build, a pistol/condi build or rifle/net build, the ft is a very useful addition to your arsenal.

Snafoo.2869:

For everyone raving about the KR medkit now gets: it is not 5 seconds, from what I saw it’s closer to 2 seconds (and of course it pops and starts the CD even if you switch to it out of combat).

Apart from that some nice buffs, although mostly on paper because in practice this patch does very little to open up more builds or make us more versatile (it might in fact nerf more builds than it buffs even).

what i take from this is that if they changed KR to only proc during combat, that would be a good thing.

edit: also, i just have to say, all the naysaying about this patch is not from “practice” it is just paper theory because the patch has not been out long enough for people to play with the changes enough to integrate them into their reflex responses.

now that would be cool.

thanks, tips, for telling me that managing cool downs is important. I am not sure if i mentioned that yet in any of my posts… mew.

but the problem with KR doesn’t matter, since it is always on a 20 second cooldown. whenever it is up, you can use whatever proc you want.

You may have noticed that they changed the procs not to be “oh kitten buttons” … this is so that you aren’t so dependent upon them. Look at the new abilities. THINK about how you might use them.

you are all spending your time thinking of situations that they WONT be useful.

try thinking about when they will, and then learn how to control your situation in game to use them to your best benefit.

No, you don’t want to drop a gearshield every time it is up. KR is not a reactionary trait. it is not “oh snap, being attacked, panic button” like gearshield. the new KR is meant to be used in harmony with your kit swapping cycles.

reread the new KR skills and think about the situations you WOULD need them. make sure that that ability FITS into your build. if it doesn’t, boo hoo, move on.

you are too stuck on negatives and impossibilities. this is a game, play it.

that was a cool video to watch.

Goloith.6349:

timidobserver.7925:

Goloith.6349:

Hi guys/gals,

As some of you know I have been a very strong supporter of the 100% Condition Duration builds, but it unfortunately was debatable about whether condition damage + HGH was stronger.

Now the answer is very clear, but this little buff wasn’t in the Engineer changes. It came in the form of condition duration fixes on Giver’s Weapons. It is now possible to “double” the duration of all conditions and use HGH

I tried this build out and I have been kitten face.

The build:
20/20/00/30/00

Explosives: Burn Chance & Might on Heal
Firearms: Swiftness & Hair Trigger
Alchemy: S, Duration, & HGH

All Rabid gear with Lyssa, Mad King, major Lyssa (might be able to swap out – will test)
2x Giver’s Pearl Hand cannon with Earth & Corruption/Restoration

With this I’m sitting at 107% (Not sure if they fixed the problem when the % wasn’t over 50% increments it wouldn’t count)

Basically I can get over 2k condition damage at double the duration. Pretty sexy.

I’m currently using:
P/P, Elixir H, B & C, & the amazing Pry bar that now has a 10 second confusion. If I run into a large group vs large group situation I swap Toolkit for FT. I’ve actually have had a lot of success with Elixir X, but thinking Supply Crate is still better.

Buffs:
Oil and Rare Veggie Pizza.

So yes turrets without the toughness/HP buff was a bit disappointing as well as the KR changes, but hey at least P/P HGH got a huge boost.

Finally my dreams come true.

Enjoy,
Golo

I liked coated bullets but your build works out really well. I think the most I could do is 10/30/0/30/0 just because coated bullets really helps with fighting multiple enemies and getting tags in wvw. However with only 10 in explosives you miss out on the might on heal.

EDIT: I am not sure if it is worth building a nice set of gear to go along with this build. Im sure it won’t make it 2 patches. Between Pistol 3 and Prybar you can pretty much perma confusion people with this.

Your going to need at least 15 into explosives or your going to have to use sigils/runes/traits to hit 100% with only 10 in Explosives

yep, timid: don’t forget that you need the +condi duration from the explosives tree.

when kr is on CD it doesn’t matter what kits you swap to or what skills you use, it stays on cd.

you can use it for flame aura (20), then, if you get cc’d 10 seconds later, switch to toolkit (10) and use gearshield (6); switch back to ft and lay some fire down (3); switch back to toolkit for a prybar and .. (1) BING ..

now .. you think, KR is up soon, what the eff is happening, and at this point you press WHATEVER BUTTON YOU NEED TO to get WHATEVER PROC YOU WANT and then switch back. or dont and use the kit you just chose.

or whatever.

seriously. your “even if i switch to medkit for swiftness ruins the timer” argument is funky because a) if KR is on cd, you can get swiftness without penalty and b) if it KR proc is up, don’t waste it, prioritize and use something else, then take swiftness.

are you worried about running to a point at the start of a match?

But really, why would you be saving a KR proc for longer than 20 seconds? What are you doing that takes longer than 20 seconds in one kit? The whole point of that trait is to cycle your kits or to add a benefit to one kit.

also, since speedy kits also effects ALL KITS, they work together if you are worried about swiftness. and if you are only putting 10 into tools anyway, whats the eff?

another edit: did someone above actually just say “because it’s too hard”? … go play another class if you can’t count to twenty. hint: if you can count even to 10 you can count to anything using the decimal system.

let’s everyone roll to messie, ele, and guard, and we can all pretend we still play EQ with a trinity.

you “gamers” ever stop to think that gw2’s lack of trinity is only being bottle-necked by generations of gamers so used to the trinity that they can’t imagine anything else?

gfo.

so I use ft for flame aura, then switch to medkit, to ft, to medkit, to ft, etc, and now it’s second 18, what do I do?!?!?!?! im in ft kit but I wants my flame aura proc!

just press your ft keybind (stow and proc) and again to equip again. why the kitten would you have to CARE about any other kit?

every 20 seconds you press any kit keybind for the kr proc for that kit regardless of what you have equipped.

kr should be used every 20 seconds, period, regardless of what kits you have equipped when, because it doesn’t matter, you can proc whatever kr you want by pressing the kit keybind. be smart in how you use them.

kr is not an “oh kitten” button, it is a refinement to your existing kit.

So wait, when I use a utility skill, it has no cooldown?
so like, when I use rocket boots and then a big 30 starts counting down, that’s NOT a cooldown?
is that what you are saying?

I am a-mew-sed by this thread.

what?

let’s say:

q = medkit; e = ft

press q (equipped) – proc magnet aura
wait 20; press q (stowed) – prod magnet aura

or

press q (equipped) – magnet aura
press q (stowed) – no proc, use weapon
wait 20, press e (equipped) – flame aura.

or

press q (equipped) – magnet aura
wait 20, press e (equipped) – flame aura.

so, what’s the problem?

these are the only ways to proc KR, everything else are just iterations and variations of the same.

KR PROCS WHICHEVER KIT YOU PRESS, REGARDLESS OF WHICH IS EQUIPPED.

You can still swap as often as you want, just press whichever kit you want a KR proc from every 20 seconds, meanwhile swap combos continue as always…

the kittens go mew mew!

I have never been kicked out of a group for being engie, or for pulling out the ft, or for any reason. I have never experienced this engism you all keep pointing too.