Guild Wars 2

it IS. AOE is an ACTUAL problem. aoe rules conquest s/tpvp, and makes certain wvw encounters trivial. too much aoe damage is actually the reason for 3 of the most OP and cheesy specs in the game, well necro, shatter mes and d/d ele.

aoe also trivializes open world PVE encounters. remember mob tagging? yeah, that mess. they said theyd fix it months ago.

Xeph.4513:

A lot of people in this post don’t seem to realise that the issue isn’t only the damage, but the fact that thieves can come in at any point in the fight and insta gib / stomp someone before the rest of the team can react and that is really bad game design and not really enjoyable for players on the receiving end.

xeph, i really appreciate your post. this happens to me all the time on my ranger bunker. ranger bunker is a high skill cap bunker that’s very rewarding to play when mastered. i could be handling 1 or 2 guys on point, barely surviving, hovering between 6-12k health lets say. and some thief roamer, who i cant see coming, will come in and instagib me for 13k burst on 2k toughness, instantly.

the problem is – WHERE IS THE SKILL? how am i to react to the most reliable single target burst in the game when i cant see it coming? it’s like getting smitten by lightning from the sky. basically, i just have to “deal” and take it. there’s no other explanation.

i fully support the thief getting some additional buffs to make it more appealing, but this ridiculous one-trick pony approach is just a bandaid for a class thats pretty underwhelming.

come on devs, i thought u said prior to release that you wanted fights to be strategic, without “headshot” type abilities in the game. the BS/mug/quickness or whatever combo is basically a sniper’s headshot from CoD or BF3.

theyre saying “bunkers shouldnt be required” for competitive play. im curious how they go about addressing this.

lets address the concern at hand here: not one spec should be able to near-perma stealth, and be unkillable if so desired. not one spec should require a concerted effort from 3-4 individuals to down. this is cheese. please eliminate cheesy builds from the game that are not fun to play against.

i think this is a very reasonable number. this modest nerf would solve a lot of problems in WvW and tpvp.

currently, thieves pulling off 16k reliable burst on a high toughness target is acting as a direct counter to many interesting, albeit squishier builds. this kind of burst is something that can be landed very reliably, especially due to culling, at little to no risk to the thief. it’s atrocious.

a modest nerf to mug or the entire combo (i dont care) would literally open up the field to many other builds. a repeatable combo dealing 10-12k-ish damage would still keep the thief as the most reliable burst in the game. with aoe nerfs hitting d/d eles and mesmers, in addition to more bunker nerfs (hopefully), we might be in a decent shape.

regardless of how you can counter this (bunkering and spamming aoe being the only true methods), BS thieves are no fun to play against. please eliminate cheese builds from the game. aoe nerfs to d/d eles and shatter mesmers is an excellent first step.

Khenzy.9348:

As a Dagger/Dagger bunker elementalist player I see the nerfs coming a mile away, I’ve played every single profession extensively so far, and this is the most broken and overpowered combination my hands had the pleasure to play (I’m still currently playing it), no other spec in the game (outside Thieve’s Shadow Refuge utility skill, nerf this already) allows for so many mistakes and still keeps fighting like nothing happened, you just have to have water and air off CD. As an example, switch to water (2k+ heal, condi remove), dodge in water with evasive arcana (2k+ heal, condi remove) and Cleansing Wave (2k+ heal, condi remove), all the while never touching the 6, which allows the healing signet to never be on CD for even more sustainability.
I don’t have any kind of “nerphobia” like 99,999% of you (that’s maybe ‘couse I play many professions) so I welcome the nerfs to make things more fair to everyone else and to have a more healthly balanced game for us all.
Also, I expect some nerfs for my Mesmer’s Mind Wrack shatter damage multipliers (maybe changing the trait) and on the innate survivability invulnerabilities and stealth offer in general, but some buffs for a power based Ranger (ex. Longbow, Greatsword viability) among other professions in need of help.

well said sir. as someone who’s been doing tpvp since bwe1, i welcome the change and i think it has been very well thought out.

i support the change. 4 people should never be able to take down 30, even if theyre underleveled noobs. it’s absolutely ridiculous.

the only kneejerk is happening from the players (who are maining necros, eles and engies). aoe is pretty ridiculous in tpvp and PVE. i think this decision is very well thought out.

youre nuts. the real reason is that aoe is bad for most aspects of the game, especially conquest spvp. it dumbs everything down.

you dont know what theyre gonna nerf exactly. but i will enjoy watching the d/d ele fall from top. im sure good eles will still do fine.

they still seem to be dragging their feet on the most important issues. not even a single acknowledgment of thief imbalance, and ranger brokenness. theyre just “watching” broken bunker builds. letting mesmer sit on their throne for a while longer. aoe nerf is promising, might end the d/d ele fotm.

but basically a whole bunch of nothing. theyre just watching. guess 6 months wasnt enough. at this pace, we’ll get there by 2014.

Vayra.3290:

If they nerf the aoe on D/D ele I will quit.

they will, and they kitten well should. so, bye. d/d eles are too much faceroll. too much damage for zero risk.

with the exception of d/d eles and shatter mesmers, i think aoe is just fine…all the while theyre making single target nukers “shine” more. i guess getting 1-shot by a macro BS thief wasnt enough.

Chopps.5047:

There does not exist bad, boring professions in GW2 yet bad, boring players run amok in these forums. And OP…I’d hate to tell you but…

sorry bud, but there’s pretty much a consensus that the ranger is lackluster in many ways. but who knows! maybe a spirit rework and further pet buffs may make it more interesting.

regarding someone post about spvp, this is where rangers actually shine. ranger is a beast in spvp

ranger is bottom of the barrel in wvw, bringing nothing useful for the team (except maybe barrage). a well done spirit buff could change this.

cats have most sustained dps, and jag has some of the highest burst with stealth. overall, jag does the most dps.

ravens have the most burst, but overall significantly lower sustained dps than cats.

bunker/ tanky BM rangers are pretty fun to play in serious pvp, but “offensive setups” other than traps are pretty laughable. there are decent power burst and condition builds outside of traps, but theyre more attrition based. u can do some beautiful stuff with +healing and vigor on a ranger.

there is a signet build with power SB, which does very high sustained damage and little burst. it’s very sturdy and can be played aggressively. but it’s not tpvp material.

energy on both main hands, corruption on offhand.

the most important thing for WvW and spvp: nerf cheese specs and make meta interesting.

thats not really relevant to the discussion. staff eles are balanced as 1) they can be seen, 2) theyre rather squishy, 3) AOE’s can be bypassed. thief can dump 16-20k burst and disappear, drop targets and leave combat basically on demand (unless chain stunned), and can almost always land their burst (most reliable burst dump in the game).

sure, culling makes everything a lot worse. but im saying thieves are not OK in WvW, even without the culling issue.

mjharrison.3209:

my guild and i have no plans to participate in stPVP while downed state is a factor.

dont hold your breath, downed state is a mechanic that isnt going anywhere. you should instead learn to play with it. it’s actually a lot of fun and adds further strategy and depth to combat.

mjharrison.3209:

nerva.7940:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Unlike GW2, GW really was innovative,

let me stop u right there. GW2 is innovative in many ways. relating to pvp, they brought a fun, AAA ARPG combat system to the MMO. that in itself is a big feat. trust me, spvp isnt suffering due to lack of innovation. it hasnt grown due to lackluster balancing changes, a horrid lack of content, and a two-dimensional metagame.

The only thing GW2 innovated on was area combo fields, and even then, LOTRO’s group combo system should still get some of the credit.

There have been many “action rpgs” already: planetside, savage, darkfall, tera, others.

planetside – MMOFPS
DF – a clunky mess
TERA – you have to stand still while casting
Savage – not even close to AAA quality
others – please indulge me

as i said, GW2 is the only MMO that has put out a AAA ARPG combat system.

LB/GS power builds are fun, but theyre not dueling builds.. u need team support. there are other viable GS builds, such as power BM bunker. but the LB simply sucks outside of WvW.

aoe can be bypassed, staff ele can be focused and annihilated. staff ele can be seen.

well played thieves are pretty broken in wvw, even without culling

id be fine with d/d’s if their aoe damage was nerfed by 10-15%. right now, it’s possible to dump a crapton of damage, slap some boons on, run around, rinse and repeat.

i actually dont have much trouble with d/d eles. theyre just not fun to fight , end of discussion.

thief stealth is NOT fine. absolutely not fine. as i said, just because it’s “only strong in 1v1” and “does little for the team in organized pvp” does not mean it should be godmode, which it is (ability to disengage on demand from just about any situation, reset fight, drop targets, heal up, etc.).

builds that are not fun to play against (d/d eles, bunker guards, a bunch of thief specs) are preventing spvp from really taking off. yes there are counters, yes you need to have 10x the skill to counter a cheese build, but GW2 has a little too much cheese imo that makes pvp less than desirable for casuals.

it’s absolutely ridiculous. p/d is a goofy spec that has little use in serious pvp, but that doesnt mean it should have a godmode attached to it.

wouldnt call it panic, more like hopelessness. thieves have been wrecking WvW for 6 months, and if prestige is mostly based on kills, they will get even more rewards.

it’s laughably easy to rack up kills with a BS thief, even without the culling exploit. i fear thieves will blaze through prestige ranks and gain all the spoils with little effort.

is anything being done to address the faceroll of the thief in WvW (and to an extent, d/d ele)? i fear that this horrible imbalance, while it did not really matter before, will enable godmode spec/profs to dominate even more.

i most definitely WOULD if the spectator camera was implemented well. we should be able to teleport to different areas of the map with a top down view, as well as switch between different players’ perspectives.

once matchmaking is out, the game will be easy to get into. gw2 is a lot of fun to watch, which is why people have made a ton of youtube vids.

i agree, they are useless, but just because ure useless doesnt mean u should have godmode.

that’s been an issue since release lol

i’ll save my thank you’s for the time when i see tpvp moving in an acceptable direction. but for now, im excited for new open world and WvW stuff.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Unlike GW2, GW really was innovative,

let me stop u right there. GW2 is innovative in many ways. relating to pvp, they brought a fun, AAA ARPG combat system to the MMO. that in itself is a big feat. trust me, spvp isnt suffering due to lack of innovation. it hasnt grown due to lackluster balancing changes, a horrid lack of content, and a two-dimensional metagame.

d/d eles need to be nerfed hard. the reason is simple. theyre not fun to play against, like attrition thieves and bunker guards.

i think we can all agree on two things:

1. 8v8 needs to go (unless someone modifies it in custom arenas)
2. hotjoin needs to go

we need:
1. 5v5 based on rank
2. some sort of disincentive for leaving a 5v5 halfway through the match

most of GW2’s pvp woes would be solved by abolishing 8v8. it’s a horrible idea considering the game is barely balanced around 5v5!

just wondering how this will be addressed. well played attrition thieves are impossible to take down 1v1 (unless stunlocked by a hammer warrior) because they can just leave. secondly, their health is always at 100% as they heal up and clear conditions whenever they want.

builds like these are making GW2 pvp not fun. they require absolutely no skill to play, and tremendous skill to counter.

also wondering how thief stealth in general will work in the upcoming pvp patch. i assume there’s something big in the works because certain aspects of the thief are pretty silly, and it’s been left as is for 6 months, which is kinda crazy.

JonPeters.5630:

milo.6942:

tl;dr: “Play now” button needs to strongly prioritize servers with player imbalances (very possible it does this already) and be put in a super obvious place like stuck to the side of the screen when in the heart of the mists. Keep everything else the same. Problem = largely solved.

Great suggestion. Promise I’m not just saying that because we’re already working on it.

Jon

nobody, and i mean nobody uses the Play Now button. take it out.

ALL games need to be 5v5 by default (unless modified in a custom arena) and players need to be punished for leaving like in Dota2/LoL (unless changed in a custom arena). this is highly recommended.

hmm. i was seeing lots of games in hotjoin today. as much servers as we had a month or two ago. spvp isnt even close to dead or dying. tournaments are though.

colin did say theyre revamping rewards for pvp. so there’s that.

to me. i have pushed this prof to its max since BWE1. as someone who always plays nature based characters (shaman, druids), i feel the ranger was just so poorly executed. and it does not feel like a nature based class. it just doesnt, you can argue it any way you want. this may be due to uselessness of spirits and lackluster pets.

i have lots of success with various builds in tpvp, but im not having any FUN.

the pet is a liability in PVE. i have no attachment to my pets. theyre idiotic, unresponsive, and poorly designed. not to mention kinda ugly (except a few cool ones like birds).

compared to other profs, the ranger is just bad in WvW. i feel like i bring small things to the table. for example, the rifle warrior does vastly superior ranged dps because bullets connect nicely with the target. mesmers, thieves, eles, guards bring so much to the table. rangers, necros and engies are bottom of the barrel in wvw.

i just feel a lot of my GW2 grief would dissipate if i were to just go back to my guardian or mesmer, both of which bring huge things to team fights.

anyone else feeling disconnected from their ranger?

ranger has lots of viable builds. power/BM, tanky bleeds/BM , tanky power SB, bunker, traps, all of which are viable.

ESO and Neverwinter are gonna blow hard, so get ready for it. so will all the Korean games. sorry to say, but GW2 is probably your only hope.

free server transfers have been ruining WvW since release. this has been a long requested feature by just about everyone.

Bambula.3649:

its no burst..cause you cant nuke an enemy down with one combo like other class and you still can doge them, same for sb but the firerate on sb is higher

u can burst most profs/specs down from 100 to 0 with LB #2, Sic Em, QZ, pet, and 10-20 vuln stacks.

hm? GS is a utility weapon used to escaping, negating burst, or finishing someone off. sword…there’s just no reason to equip it unless youre bunkering.

with full zerker gear it crits for about 2K every few seconds. it’s better than zero sustained DPS, but not why id pick up the LB. personally, i prefer coming in a little closer to land more of my #2 + QZ on 20 vuln stacks. almost a sure kill. reposition and repeat.

i notice you rarely have more than 5-6 stacks of bleeds on your targets. you open with concussive shot at one point, why? you dont use bleed stacking pets (lynx/jag). and again, you insist on TU instead of HS, which is a crime on healing builds. and sharpening stone is such a waste of a utility.

personally, i prefer bleed stacking with axe/dagger/SB and cats. the one evade on the dagger is enough to neuter a burst chain, if timed appropriately. and lastly, in the time it takes you to kill one target (and expose yourself to zergs with no escape abilities), a good LB/BM power ranger would have sniped 3-4. i just dont feel dueling builds belong in WvW because youre not really contributing much, but hey as long as youre having fun.

sorry man! dont mean to be harsh but i like to play my ranger a certain way, just expressing my critique. hopefully youre not taking offense.

i just finished building my power ranger sniper, and it’s been great fun. but i will soon start gathering some THC gear for skirmishing 0/0/30/10/30 build, which is a blast in tpvp.

the ones who have left always come back when a new patch hits, and they’ll keep coming back. id like to see ANet working toward actually keeping people.

ure right, BM/condi tanky setups are the best. however, there are also good power bunker builds, in addition to highly effective LB/BM builds in wvw. plus trap ranger. so we have about 4 viable builds, 3 of which are viable in spvp. not bad.

s/d is a completely defensive setup. 3 evades, that’s all it’s good for. i see no reason to use s/d in wvw. it’s good in bunkering setups and smaller engagements. generally, it goes something like:

offensive power builds: GS, LB
condition: axe/torch, or axe/dagger, + SB
bunkering: GS/S/D

bunkering in wvw is kind of pointless (as is dueling to an extent), therefore s/d is of limited use.

Durzlla.6295:

racta.4250:

@bambula,

Don’t spread lies. I use LB and win many 1v1s, small fights, and 5v5s.
In fact I’ve never lost to a shortbow ranger 1v1 either.

It’s amazing how many SB rangers will allow you to just back away from them, your damage increasing more and more as you do so xD.

uh u realize that LB #1 does like negligible damage in your rotation? LB is about two things: control using #4 and #5, and burst by stacking vuln and #2 + QZ. burst can be close or long range. SB is a utility weapon that’s great for skirmishing (evasion, cripple and daze). it does negligible burst.

sorry, all i see is average ranger play. power healing builds are vastly inferior dueling builds compared to condition/healing. ranger power builds do laughable damage, even with the pet getting every hit off.

not gonna waste time being too nitpicky, but basically rolling TU over HS for multiple leap finishers and condition removal is less than impressive. no lightning reflexes for vigor tanking. etc etc. i dont even know what the other dude was doing.

i get ure trying to do something different. power/healing builds when built right are great a bunkering. but it’s inferior for dueling.