Guild Wars 2

XiL.4318:

I train with a sammich in my hand for competitive RTS. Just as effective, much less indentured servitude. Crazy good sammiches.

Thief Wars 2 needs to have PvP that doesn’t suck for 75% of the player population from R 1 – R 30.

Top Level Meta is imaginary until there is a large enough population to care about it. That can’t happen until Thief Wars 2 starts being fun for new players.

letting thief ravage casual spvp is absolutely unacceptable. this is coming from a tpvp’er who has no issue with thieves.

ranger is actually really good. power builds need a little somethin, spirits need a rework still and pets require further pathing improvements.

condi bunker builds with cats are way stronger. condi synergizes with wilderness trait line and u simply do more damage. people dont really die to this kind of burst in tpvp. 10-15k from a BS thief, shatter mesmer or d/d ele, maybe. ranger power builds are super gimped, unless u run glass cannon LB in wvw, which is hella fun.

certain builds that render all others obsolete require some serious tweaks to bring more variation into the meta. but more importantly, conquest needs to die in a fire. team DM is the basic game mode u start with and build on. common sense. rankings might bring some people back, but until we get team DM, i dont think gw2 pvp is going anywhere big. relying on conquest to carry spvp was a major, major mistake.

I detect a stealth whine from op. Do yourself a favour and go back to wow.

As much as u cant stand the thought of it trolls, gw2 pvp will be just fine. Still tons of people playing but everyone hates tourneys. Once rankings are out game’s gonna be just fine.

Bulldozer.5973:

But the game was already released and has sold most of its copies. Why would they want to dump more resources into improving a game that has already sold its copies and has very little potential for increasing revenues when they could just dump their resources into GW3 or whatever other release they are planning in the future?

because they care about their current game and its community. hard to grasp, i know.

your damage went down because youre not shattering with 20 stacks of might.

Levetty.1279:

nerva.7940:

shatter mesmers, certain aspects of the thief, d/d eles and bunker guards need to be nerfed to the ground, which would bring them in line with the rest of the specs. until then, pvp aint goin nowhere kids.

shatter needs more nerfs.

As I keep saying, people wont’ be happy until PvP is just running around auto attacking people.

actually thats what the above changes would move us away from. thieves, d/d eles, shatter mesmers and bunker guards are the lowest skillcap profs/specs that give too much reward for little to no effort. once you learn an attack chain, thats it, youre done. and the worst part is, you dont ever have to do anything different because these specs are leaps and bounds ahead of everything else. pragmatism. there’s your reason why tpvp is the crap that it is.

pmnt.4067:

I support the 0.25s cooldown between the same Thief weapon skills – not even for balance reasons.

I have the problem that I burn initiative by accidentially activating the same skill twice. (Then again, I also tend to insta-leave Death Shroud or Plague…)

sounds like you need to start using your fingers instead of your face.

shatter mesmers, certain aspects of the thief, d/d eles and bunker guards need to be nerfed to the ground, which would bring them in line with the rest of the specs. until then, pvp aint goin nowhere kids.

shatter needs more nerfs.

Levetty.1279:

JonPeters.5630:

OneManArmy.5617:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Jumper is pro, you can’t argue with him. l2keybind.

On topic, kitten – won’t be able to forcebug the 14k mind wracks and blame the game while people scream for exploit. 1/4 of a second is really nothing, minor change that will affect only the bug.

Funny thing, Anet didn’t fix the bug, they just made it impossible to execute. Always better to add something new instead of fixing the old kitten.

I think it’s a temporary bandaid until they can actually figure out what the problem is.
It seems they can’t identify what is causing it,so they added a preventing measure.
Better than doing nothing imo.

We have a winner! This was an especially bad problem so we did what we had to do given the resources we had to solve this while the studio was closed for the new year/holidays.

Jon

I know this is as PvP forum but any chance this is the reason why shattered strength was also nerfed for PvE players in stead of being split like practically every guardian change has been? Not that it needed nerfing in PvP, it just ended up lumped in with the shatter exploit and bad players didn’t want to actually learn the difference, but at the very least let PvE Mesmers keep this to keep up with every other glass cannon build or to actually make Signet of Inspiration useful and provide Mesmers with an engaging support play style for dungeons.

if you thought that stacking 20 might in a matter of seconds was okay, then youre nuts. if you thought it wouldnt get nerfed, youre completely out of touch with reality. most specs couldnt stack 20 might to begin with. doing so in 2-3 seconds was broken.

mesmers were fine in PVE. you can still get 6-9 stacks with shatters alone, and about 15 if you use GS. you can still share 15 stacks of might. gg.

exploit can no longer be done. might stack nerf was needed. u can still get 6-9 stacks, which is generous. id nerf shatter kitten into the ground personally because they have the lowest skillcap in the game and are still the best duelists. i wouldnt complain if i were you.

dodge WAS expanded upon. it’s called vigor. the ranger, for example, bunkers using vigor and evasion. many other specs and profs have access to vigor.

Leo Paul.1659:

Totally expected. I’m disappointed of course, that only mesmers get a nerf first thing in the new year.

not a nerf, a fix. get that through your thick skulls.

reduce burst all around, then QQ will die out on its own. problem solved.

anyway, mug is broken, 6 HS with haste is broken, and there needs to be a stealth nerf as well

ColinJohanson.2394:

One of our major goals with these releases is making our existing world as strong as possible, ensuring there are reasons to go to all the locations in the world we’ve already built

im glad you identified this as the KEY to ensuring a successful future for the game. DE’s and the world are kinda dead right now due to bad rewards, scaling, and bugs, which is a shame because DE’s are the best PVE ive ever done in an MMO.

i actually thought they had an excellent understanding of the meta, how it’s bad, and why it’s bad.

Daecollo.9578:

interferenz.8739:

Daecollo.9578:

Thieves have the worst survivability, and are fourth on mobility.

What thieves do have however is stealth, which is an advantage.

Funny comment. Thieves have the worst survivabililty? Ridiculous. Whats about their stealth, shadowstep, blinding powder, shortbow 5 …
I played a thief for a few days now and its absolutly easy to jump in the fight – kill 1 or to guys and if your health gets low .. baam – out of fight and no chance for the enemy to catch you.

Survivability is the ability to take damage and live through it.

Nope, thats called mitigation. Survivability is just being able to stay alive. Profs that can drop targets whenever the hell they want, and/or just run away have the most survivability. Thief has the most survivability in the game. Also the most reliable burst and some of the best mobility.

necro can burst and bunker like a boss. so can the ranger.

i dont mind that thieves have the best applied burst in the game, as long as they dont have the best survivability and the best mobility, 3in1. thats just ridiculous and unfair.

not my idea but from this stream’s discussion: http://www.twitch.tv/ptdevils/b/352071097

- each player gets to pre-build their prof
- lets say 3 available builds per prof
- dota-style picking pre-game
- spec is visible to other players

i love the idea. what do you guys think?

when can we expect a major meta shift? you know what the issues are. can we expect to see these major issues addressed with the major spvp patch in the new year?

while evasion/vigor bunkers are very good, i feel glass cannon ranger needs on-demand camouflage (maybe 2-3 seconds) in order to reposition and reset fight. this could be given via grandmaster trait.

GS and sword are great for mitigating damage. and swoop is one of the best escapes in the game. but until pets are 100% reliable, it’s difficult to spec for damage with sword/GS.

finally, a decent thief player advocating for prof balance. stealth absolutely needs a nerf. thief is able to faceroll way too much with such a ridiculous stealth duration. it would also alleviate the culling problems in wvw.

myself a lot of other players with a lot of experience (like playing most profs in tpvp since BWE1) have been advocating for these changes in a reasonable tone, only to get our threads flooded by too many trolls, resulting in thread deletion.

hope this thread lives long enough for JS and JP to see when they come back from vacay.

Mrbig.8019:

Caed, i know you’re a pro NA thief, but your opinion on the class is far too biased by your playstyle preference ( glass cannon) and your suggestions would only reduce a bit the QQs ( that anyway, come from the C&D+ Mug+ Stab or from the Stab-> mug combo) while not really fixing thief fundamental flaws.

attrition thieves would be just fine with 8s of stealth because they can re-enter it constantly. most of the builds you mention are actually viable right now, it’s just that d/d is so ridiculous that there’s no reason to do anything else (other than d/p maybe).

Mrbig.8019:

Just like necros.

not sure what level you play at, but necros actually have at least 3 wildly different viable builds in tpvp. condi, bunker and power. bunker is considered subpar only due to guardians being so strong; then again, all other bunker builds are as well. so yes, nerf guardian bunker more.

youre thinking of warlock. next.

FASTCAR.7831:

Forgot 1 thing : In ALL other MMOs ,necro gets the best ( usually only)longest fear spell.Ours is useless and warriors is much better.

Just sad.

you get two spammable fears on any default build (Doom, and the staff mark) which are instant cast and have a huge range. if you cant see the benefit in that then you will forever be a noob.

necro is sick in this game. Death Shroud is such a cool mechanic, especially if youre power spec. most utilities are useful, all weapons except axe are interesting. dunno, i love the necro.

Couldnt agree less. Pet + lb is the best combination for flanking and picking off stragglers in a zerg. Work on your positioning. You are a ranger after all. Or your could just use guard to stealth your pet on approach. When I send my cat in with sic em and qz, it’s a guaranteed kill at which point losing the pet is acceptable.

i may be inclined to support these threads, but honestly, ive massacred enough people in wvw with my jaguar alone that i just cant. spec BM, wait for an opening, micro the pet, heal it, use shouts, use the terrain, flank. pets can be really deadly.

great. i watched Total Biscuit the other day and he did his top 10 favourites. GW2 wasnt even on the list. mind you, i didnt agree with many of his choices, but still kinda weird. what made him blow off GW2 anyway? he was hardcore into it pre-release.

now…everything.

gotta love his frantic key fumbling in the background, every time lol

Aervius.2016:

(It’s so sad to see that, really.)

the absolute saddest thing that ive seen on these forums is how hard some thief mainers are clutching onto their broken, skill-less prof. and i say broken because, well, with culling thieves are literally broken. the responsible thief mainers are actually coming out and supporting change, which is very much appreciated by the rest of the pvp community.

much more if you count wvw. wvw is pvp.

thieves have the most reliable burst in the game, period. simply because u cant really dodge it unless you get lucky, or waste endurance before his opener. there is no skill to it. there needs to be a longer delay before the damage hits, after a thief shadowsteps, maybe 0.25 of a second.

another option is to increase Revealed to 4-5 seconds, instead of 3. keep the burst.

remove it. thieves dont need more stealth.

Cal.1985:

@nerva
You have no idea what you are talking about.
1. Best mobility – D/D Ele wins that fight from the locker.
2. Best burst – Warrior, Engie, Mesmer, D/D ele. Thief has one burst during which he is so vunlarble, the others not so much. And believe me mesmers can do more burst and have higher health pool from 900 range

actually, i do have an idea about what im talking about. thief has the most reliable burst in the game. youre the one without a shred of serious pvp experience.

warrior – one good dodge, a little bit of environmental awareness (just a little), and not only can he no longer apply the burst but he’s DEAD.
d/d ele – u can dodge just about every move from his chain. eles can also be crippled and cc’d because they are visible
engie – just burst him down first. he has no mobility, and he cant apply his burst.
mesmer – only in tpvp. i dont see any shatter mesmers in wvw. dont think ive seen one actually. my guildie tries to play one, and hes good, but it just doesnt work.

so it’s all about applied burst. thief has the best applied burst. next.

i know how to counter thieves in my paid tourney matches, 5v5 isnt really a problem. i wont stop crying about this class and no one will. so stop asking the impossible. my buddy mains a thief in wvw, and hes just sick and tired of the low skillcap and the stupidity of the prof. he shelved his thief and i get why hes doing it. but i cant ask thousands of players to boycott the prof until culling is fixed.

thieves killing me in wvw isnt the problem. notice how i dont talk about thief burst in my thread. problem is them being uncatchable, virtually godmode.

sigil of rage haste procs? both thief and warriors provide reliable burst. too many variables for the guardian (binding blade has to land). i played a roaming GS guard in tpvp, he wasnt bad.

uh give them a break. let them have their xmas. they did a really solid balance patch before their vacations, and with additional features and tweaks in Jan/Feb, spvp will be in a good shape.

but it’s not JUST the culling. stealth is too long and CD’s are too short, even without the culling problem.

i like the current wvw maps and tbh wouldnt want more for now. two major issues for wvw are:

1. progression
2. culling

everything else is kinda bearable. if they resolve culling and bring in some meaningful progression (hopefully not ascended grind alone), we’ll be in a really good shape.

as for the interview, pretty much what i expected. if most of the wvw team is working on the culling issue, how can u expect an entire xpac’s worth of wvw content in Feb? wvw is a seriously solid game thats keeping many, many interested and playing. yes, some guilds have left, but easily replaced if not outnumbered by new blood.

best mobility, best burst, most escapes. no risk, high reward. if youre good, it’s like godmode, literally. WvW is dominated by thieves. there’s a reason for this.

main problem is stealth uptime. CD’s are straight up too low and stealth lasts too long. stealth is so long that u actually cant always see the thief coming, especially with culling problems. stealth is so long that if the thief messes up, he can easily disappear until all CD’s reset. no risk for generally high reward.

devs mentioned they wouldnt stress balance for WvW. but these mechanics are simply broken with culling issues. one thief can only be caught by a coordinated group by chaining dazes/stuns/immobilizes, often all three.

main problem is stealth uptime. CD’s are straight up too low and stealth lasts too long. stealth is so long that u actually cant always see the thief coming. stealth is so long that if the thief messes up, he can easily disappear until all CD’s reset. no risk for generally high reward. anyway, it’s the same crap we’ve been saying since beta.

Fellknight.4820:

If you don’t understand that as a designer you need people to play your MMO in order for it to be successful than it’s probably time for a career change. Because at the end of the day it doesn’t matter how you feel as a developer if no one wants to play your game.

this sadly. everyone hates the thief. ive never hated anything more than the thief in this game and the devs’ sheer stubbornness when sitting back on this issue.

thief runes are best actually.

Gelltor.3015:

Long bow +tanky pets is always a good option!

or u can just use a jaguar and do 20k burst with cat, LB and QZ.

high risk high reward is something that thieves are not. theyre just high reward all around.

anyone arguing for this prof is maining a thief and will pretty much be dismissed. youre also missing the main point: most survivability, most burst, most mobility. period. no trade-offs. this is simply not allowed in any balanced pvp game. letting this crap go on for 4 months is absolutely nuts. my buddy stopped playing his thief because he was sick and tired of owning people in wvw with a few button spams.

570gtx here. LA sucks, wvw zergs are smooth but 30-ish fps. rest is cool. as raident mentioned, u need 2 high end SLI’d GPU’s for this unoptimized game.

SB for skirmishing, LB for long range burst and pet synergy. end of discussion. use qz with your LB #2.