Guild Wars 2

warrior is just trash. Balance team Devs highly need to go dueling arena in custom server with their warrior to test things out with random people for at least 3 hours for a week.

Warrior can never sustain now, even with shout and banner with cleric ammy. Warrior is just trash.

I would recommend druid if you like to sustain.

Warrior is just trash. Dps bad, sustain bad.

Probly crazy buffs like,
2x buff on damages of all weapon skills and burst skills and 2x heal amount on all healing skill & shout heal & banner regen & all trait heal heal and regen & 6 sec endure pain would solve the problem.

Or nerf all other classes

Or warrior complete rework

i already told you people overall balance at the first day of patch at https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ordered-list-of-OP-classes-after-patch/

Those guys who oppose should go dueling arena with any core build and realize how OP HoT spec is.

It is almost unplayable level with core, feel the actual power of p2w by yourself.

OtterPaws.2036:

online.1278:

um not yet, war is bit more playable than before, but currently reaper, scrapper, rev, druid still too OP than war.

Warr is always great in PvE though

well let me edit my opinion in terms of PvP.

Warrior is just trash. I strongly recommend playing either rev or reaper.

yeah reaper is top OP right now and then druid, rev, scrapper follows right behind.
becuz reaper is too perfect, they have 1200ranged perma chill+condis for ranged fight and rampage like perma-stability for melee fight as well.

um not yet, war is bit more playable than before, but currently reaper, scrapper, rev, druid still too OP than war.

daggerhands.9634:

Why are you hitting yourself

becuz i love to hit myself!

In terms of esports,
banner finishes downed enemy on banner trait will make warrior viable anyway even tho warrior sucks cuz this kinda ability is anyway very useful in esports.

Emkelly blah blah guy in this forum has very nice ideas.

daggerhands.9634:

online.1278:

daggerhands.9634:

online.1278:

daggerhands.9634:

Its not pay to win its buy to get extra shiny stuff
Base game is now for free
Players who bouhgt gw2(non hot) have access too TP and have map/ whisper freedom over f2p players
Players who have bought HOT have acces too HOT content (raids, specialisations mastery’s and the new maps)
So why should basegame only / free2 play get acces to it. Btw HOT only gives acces to new traits and one new weapon. It doesnt give a stat boost it only offers a extra traitline.
Also base game can counter Hot builds, its very hard but possible yes your old builds might not work any more but you cant run the same build for too long since people will figure out how to counter after a while. Learn to adapt people

Core meta cannot win any of HoT meta, but HoT meta can pwn any of core meta, thus p2w is correct answer.

Just because you cant doesnt make it fact plz learn to build arguments on facts your personal situation nor skill level is a fact (btw thief shattermes (both condi and power) rampager war, engi marauder(non hot build) eng condi and multiple other builds are still viable)

viable doesnt mean it is superior than hot meta.
Do any1 use core in tournament?
i would stop arguing p2w unless people in tourney uses core at least at 40% out of 100%. 40% is minimum. like 4 out of 10 people in tourney should use core, then it makes no p2w. they are people who uses most decent build so if they use no core that means core is generally worse than hot. buff core then become no p2w.

Viable means viable doesnt matter if it gets run in ESL or not (btw esl doesnt necessarily run the meta builds they run builds benefitting groupplay stratigy or groupcomp) builds dont have to be meta to be run /good to run meta only means that it is the build judged to be the best in most situations. Viable builds fill that void

they use none cuz core sucks generally. thus p2w, understood?
you have to pay hot to win.

i would stop arguing p2w unless people in tourney uses core at least at 40% out of 100%. 40% is minimum. like 4 out of 10 people in tourney should use core, then it makes no p2w. they are people who uses most decent build so if they use no core that means core is generally worse than hot. buff core then become no p2w.

Otherwise I can’t believe this game is not p2w.

daggerhands.9634:

online.1278:

daggerhands.9634:

Its not pay to win its buy to get extra shiny stuff
Base game is now for free
Players who bouhgt gw2(non hot) have access too TP and have map/ whisper freedom over f2p players
Players who have bought HOT have acces too HOT content (raids, specialisations mastery’s and the new maps)
So why should basegame only / free2 play get acces to it. Btw HOT only gives acces to new traits and one new weapon. It doesnt give a stat boost it only offers a extra traitline.
Also base game can counter Hot builds, its very hard but possible yes your old builds might not work any more but you cant run the same build for too long since people will figure out how to counter after a while. Learn to adapt people

Core meta cannot win any of HoT meta, but HoT meta can pwn any of core meta, thus p2w is correct answer.

Just because you cant doesnt make it fact plz learn to build arguments on facts your personal situation nor skill level is a fact (btw thief shattermes (both condi and power) rampager war, engi marauder(non hot build) eng condi and multiple other builds are still viable)

viable doesnt mean it is superior than hot meta.
Do any1 use core in tournament?
i would stop arguing p2w unless people in tourney uses core at least at 40% out of 100%. 40% is minimum. like 4 out of 10 people in tourney should use core, then it makes no p2w. they are people who uses most decent build so if they use no core that means core is generally worse than hot. buff core then become no p2w.

Otherwise I can;t believe this game is not p2w.

daggerhands.9634:

Its not pay to win its buy to get extra shiny stuff
Base game is now for free
Players who bouhgt gw2(non hot) have access too TP and have map/ whisper freedom over f2p players
Players who have bought HOT have acces too HOT content (raids, specialisations mastery’s and the new maps)
So why should basegame only / free2 play get acces to it. Btw HOT only gives acces to new traits and one new weapon. It doesnt give a stat boost it only offers a extra traitline.
Also base game can counter Hot builds, its very hard but possible yes your old builds might not work any more but you cant run the same build for too long since people will figure out how to counter after a while. Learn to adapt people

Core meta cannot win any of HoT meta, but HoT meta can pwn any of core meta, thus p2w is correct answer.

p2w esports is great. Any f2p user who watchs those esports tourney will consider either paying for HoT to get in mainstream or quitting the game since realizing the fact of gw2 pvp meta.

I wouldn’t say making hot free but there should be core meta in tourney as well. otherwise people will always think game is p2w.

normalize every balance plz

Simply, if the core meta cannot compete equally with hot meta, then the game is then p2w. Otherwise, it is not p2w.

Unfortunately we see no core build beating HoT build and we see no core build in tournament as well. Thus, Any f2p user will think this game p2w.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

APeX played in Pro League, but they finally realized they couldn’t be like water and stopped trying. With APeX up for relegation, they may not try again until warrior is OP again.

ok. Thx for info.
That sounds like he is not gonna stream again unless warrior become playable.
Hope he come back anyway tho..

why this guy doesn’t stream at all in these days?

I loved to watch this guy becuz basically he was very funny guy with comical voice with Bruce Lee logo ^.^

Any1 know how is he doing and why quit streaming?
Or, did he quit the game? Probly?

Thxxx!

Hi, you have to understand anet’s circumstance as well.

In order to sell HoT expansion to earn money for anet, some elite specs should be OPer than anything ever, such as reaper, druid, scrapper are good example. (otherwise no one gonna buy!)

Of course, dd cele eles had been claimed for more than a year for their OPness. I am pretty sure they had to delete it becuz it kept ripping off anet’s credibility since they haven’t removed it for more than a year.

But plz don’t be angry, anet need to sell games thus They would make some random x thing OP regularly. They probably nerf it regularly as well when people claim too much, just like dd ele case.

All you have to do is understanding anet’s business model, and just play OP class at each specific era & term, and pwn people.

And i would recommend either one of reaper, scrapper, druid for this term if you want to enjoy pvp life.

If you want real fair game and be noble person, plz run core build.

Hi. The anwer is impossible.

In order to sell HoT expansion to earn money for anet, some elite specs should be OPer than anything ever, such as reaper, druid, scrapper are good example.

Very Unfortunately for you,
dd cele eles had been claimed for more than a year for their OPness. I am pretty sure they had to delete it becuz it kept ripping off anet’s credibility since they haven’t removed it for more than a year.

But in reality, they actually made alternative sustain spec like druid. So just play it if you own HoT, and just pwn people around until they would play same OP spec in the future.

So you have alternatuve sustain build, which is druid. Plz play this class if you want sustain like dd cele ele.

Otherwise, If you want real fair game regardless of OPness, plz run core build.

yeah i think balance problem will be never solved. For example, even tho anet succesffully balances elite specs, but do you think they would balance for core builds?

Nope becuz they have to sell HoT. they should make elite spec always OP in order to sell the game.

Idk

Why druid got untouched? Here is answer.

In order to sell HoT expansion to earn money for anet, some elite specs should be OPer than anything ever, such as reaper, druid, scrapper are good example.

Of course, dd cele eles had been claimed for more than a year for their OPness. I am pretty sure they had to delete it becuz it kept ripping off anet’s credibility since they haven’t removed it for more than a year.

But in reality, they actually made alternative sustain spec like druid. So just play it if you own HoT, and just pwn people around until they would play same OP spec in the future.

If you want real fair game plz run core build.

But plz don’t be angry, anet need to sell games thus They would make some random x thing OP regularly. They probably nerf it regularly as well wen people claim too much, just like dd ele case.

All you have to do is understanding anet’s business model, and just play OP class, and pwn people.

i don’t understand company trying to forcely starts esports tournament as the game’s current state is p2w. f2p user whoever watch that tournament will think the game is p2w already thus they consider either quit the game or pay HoT, but i think there will be more quitter than payer since they can simply change their main game to BnS or Tera or whatever, very easily since those games are f2p and not p2w.

It is just kittening natural logic.

Pyriall.1683:

People have been able to do well with core builds. Unless you’re competing at the highest level of team play you will be ok. Until then, don’t be a dip and blame it on the expansion.

nope. Not even true. You can realize OP level difference at even community level of dueling arena.

Andraus.3874:

online.1278:

Andraus.3874:

People are mad that the elite professions are better and they don’t want to dish out the money for the expansion. So they use their ignorance and biase to come up with the p2w crap.

Anyone can see this is not p2w, except the ignorant biased people. Just better to ignore those people as they are detmermined to live in ignorance.

how would it not be p2w since every hot meta pwns core meta? and it costs 50dollar to obtain that privilige, thus p2w.

Personally idc since i already have hot, but in terms of esports, the game shouldn’t be p2w. I will stop claiming this unless anet stop esports anymore and focus on being mmorpg tho.

That is not the definition of p2w. As explained multiple times. You can call it that if you like but it’s not what a p2w model is. Common sense says paying money for a better class is p2w. But that is not what p2w actually means. Common sense does not always lead you to the right answer. That’s why I am saying you are ignorant. Usually ignorance is easily fixed with some education but since you are also biased we won’t get anywhere. If you can overcome your ignorance and biase you’d see it is not p2w. But I have learned it’s a waste of time to help people overcome their biases on the Internet.

I think you just have no idea how to distinguish similar thing that are just placed in a little bit different manner, or try to force yourself not believing the fact. Just assume if you were f2p user who loses lot due to not having new elite stuffs, which is OPer, thus have internal conflict between buying the game or not, to overcome the circumstance. It is similar to buying new gear to win.

In both cases, the fact that they need to spend money to get stronger doesn’t change.

shion.2084:

online.1278:

MrTree.4890:

Ok people over here don’t seem to understand the businessmodels

We have 3:
Pay to play (monthly subscriptions)
Buy to play (GW2)
And then there is the dreaded pay to win pay to win is a seemingly free game in which you have to pay microtransactions continuously if you want to win

Whatever you want to make the defenition of pay to win this game is not it!
You do get a very extensive free trail and now people complain this is pay to win or we have some people who bought the core game and just play pvp thus not willing to upgrade to HOT why would a company wanna help you out uf you don’t even are willing to buy the game to play it! They need support to financialy! Go complain on a LoLforum that that game is pay to win and leave us people willing to pay games with people older then the age of 14 (cause thats why you cant afford it you don’t have job kiddo!) Just be happy here

On great hunt for people looking for competetive free to play games i love dota chck that one out and stop whining over.

Or get a job (in the weekend) like i always did to pay for my gaming addiction!

Now bug off kids!

i would honestly says buy2play > pay2win.

Free2play without pay2win is always the most ideal for customer tho. I think Blade and Soul and Tera only does that.

Black Desert will be p2w.

I’m not sure B&S really does that… lets say you want to climb ranks in PvP…. well you’d probably have to be able to log into the server to fight… which took me 45 min of waiting in a queue… so prety sure I’m at a competitve disadvantage to getting more game time in and performing well in leaderboards without access to the game itself. Meh you can make an argument against anything. But I have so far found B&S to be made unenjoyable with its money grab attempts. I’d be into it if it were B2P. Guildwars so much better a model in comparison… for those complaining, go try the “free” experience of B&S and compare to the free expeience here. IT will help put things in perspective about how generous GW is.

BnS’s overall balance is better than gw2 right now and is not p2w. Since it requires you money to win, how is it generous?

but reason why i don’t play bns is i just don’t like their combat system.

Andraus.3874:

People are mad that the elite professions are better and they don’t want to dish out the money for the expansion. So they use their ignorance and biase to come up with the p2w crap.

Anyone can see this is not p2w, except the ignorant biased people. Just better to ignore those people as they are detmermined to live in ignorance.

how would it not be p2w since every hot meta pwns core meta? and it costs 50dollar to obtain that privilige, thus p2w.

Personally idc since i already have hot, but in terms of esports, the game shouldn’t be p2w. I will stop claiming this unless anet stop esports anymore and focus on being mmorpg tho.

tempest is at bottom tier with berserker i guess. But one of another big reason why ele complain so much is also becuz of their too much trust/dependency on cheese cele build for a too much long time : most of eles i duel in these days they are completely unskilled but only claim ele sucks due to they too much relied cele for along time, unskilled play which anyway worked at their cele golden era. Of course ele need to be buffed but they also need to get out of cele trauma. Most of them doesn’t even know how to dodge evis and ES, not like thieves dodging it very well with their skilled instinct play.

since many people stated and compare them to my list, the similarity in OP list, there is always reaper and scrapper and sometimes rev and druid.

Cam Ron.4170:

You realize this game is like 4 years old, pvp population of about 3,000 and there is no hope of “esports” whatever the hell that means right?

alright then sorry

MrTree.4890:

Ok people over here don’t seem to understand the businessmodels

We have 3:
Pay to play (monthly subscriptions)
Buy to play (GW2)
And then there is the dreaded pay to win pay to win is a seemingly free game in which you have to pay microtransactions continuously if you want to win

Whatever you want to make the defenition of pay to win this game is not it!
You do get a very extensive free trail and now people complain this is pay to win or we have some people who bought the core game and just play pvp thus not willing to upgrade to HOT why would a company wanna help you out uf you don’t even are willing to buy the game to play it! They need support to financialy! Go complain on a LoLforum that that game is pay to win and leave us people willing to pay games with people older then the age of 14 (cause thats why you cant afford it you don’t have job kiddo!) Just be happy here

On great hunt for people looking for competetive free to play games i love dota chck that one out and stop whining over.

Or get a job (in the weekend) like i always did to pay for my gaming addiction!

Now bug off kids!

i would honestly says buy2play > pay2win.

Free2play without pay2win is always the most ideal for customer tho. I think Blade and Soul and Tera only does that.

Black Desert will be p2w.

is our goal MMORPG or eSports? You guys should select.
If mmo then p2w, if esports then no-pay2win.

P2W is ok if dev’s goal is mmorpg, not esports.

But i think, at this less popularity of this game in terms of current small twitch viewer numbers, it might be better to keep p2w. (even tho some smart f2p player will quit the game since they know it is p2w). Becuz anet cannot make money without p2w. If anet had huge number of player base then gem store itself would be enough to get money tho.

but when it comes to esports, p2w mechanic will always decrease anet’s credibility. I think anet just need to stop esports then.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

online.1278:

Super OP : Rev, Reaper
Middle OP : Scrapper, Druid, Dragon Hunter, Daredevil (Daredevil highly depends on player’s personal instinct skill, meaning that this class can be super OP or normal. So I put this class in middle between Super OP and Normal)
Normal :Tempest, Chrono, Berserker
Weakest : All Core Jobs

Loled
Reapers gets destroyed be tempests, heralds, daredevils, dragon hunters, but they are super OP
Scrappers immortal and can easily win 1v2, but they are middle OP
Tempets still have strong survival+offence, but they are normal
Cronomancers are as strong as they were, but they are normal
Berserker stronger than ever, but they are normal

Remember the list differs based on your class & job and i used core warrior (not berserker) to test.

Rolisteel.1375:

Just learn to play really. I never played warrior before. Made one after reading whine posts and people put it useless category. Played berserker and imo its very good for 1v1 and also win some 1v2 with very good rotation. Can run away from some zerg situation using stuns and warrior mobility together. where i just die as a necro so i dont have to wait respawn time,don’t have to run back from start on warrior i like it

That will not solve pay2win problem for core f2p people. And also berserker warrior is overally sucks than reaper, scrapper, rev. Learn how to think balance problem in wider mindmap.

Loop.8106:

online.1278:

nope that is not esports but deceiving users. It would be fine to do that if they give up esports. This will just ruin anet’s credibility.

Just release legendary skin on gem store and make another way to make profit.

Which game used to be the biggest eSports game (before the moba scene)?
Starcraft. Was Starcraft successful? Very much so.
Did you have to buy Starcraft in order to play? Yes.
Did you have to upgrade to Heart of the Swarm / Legacy of the Void to even play the game online? Yes you did.
Does eSports still exist within Starcraft? Ooh yes.

if you love to compare you can’t comapre to 1998 business model. Why not compare to league of legends which is most successful esports game in these days?

lol

As soon as bunker meta problem solved, now the our main problem has become pay2win problem since the anet allow Hot owners to easily kill f2p users like predator. lol

Wolfric.9380:

It´s easy to say: ANet needs to get money to keep the game running.
This game is free to play and to learn. There is no monthly fee. You can do a lot of things without expansion.
Shure you want the expasion after some time and this is OK.
I have no problem buying one expanson per year. It´s cheap compared to other games. About 4$ per month if you divide it and worth supporting a good game.

nope that is not esports but deceiving users. It would be fine to do that if they give up esports. This will just ruin anet’s credibility.

Just release legendary skin on gem store and make another way to make profit.

Actually, there is like no meaning for this game to be pay2win in fact. We gotta think deeply.

if this game’s goal was p2w, why would anet need to make such a decent build system for each class? Which is even harder to maintain its balance than very build-limited game street fight-like Blade and Soul. It is just time and money wasting then.

For example, if i were about to make p2w game, I just rip all build system and then i would just create new class regularly, and make this new class always being OP whenever releasing, to let people pay for this new class. This is just way much easier to make p2w game than making decent build system and then make it p2w. In terms of balance management, game without build diversity is much easier to manage. Thus this game for being p2w is just meaningless.

Imolementing P2W system for this kinda decent build system game denies their(dev) efforts by themselves (dev) that they did put into making such a great build system which they did with all of their efforts, which is contradiction.

If the goal is esports, everything should be unlockable except skin, costume stuff.

i would even release legendary skin in gem store. But about balances, i would always keep equally and fairly…

how would you know it is dead? Is queue time taking like 20min for a game?

GodOfWar.3624:

online.1278:

GodOfWar.3624:

How the HELL is this game Pay to Win? Did any of those idiots EVER play ANY OTHER MMORPG that was EVER made? This game is SOOO far from being Pay to Win. It’s one of the fairest cash shops I’ve ever seen.

could you tell me any core build that would fight evenly against vipor rev or reaper? Like 50:50

For the reaper, I actually do have an answer. Ranger. As silly as that sounds. Their distance safe space is truly not to be underestimated. I’ve seen many necros go down against rangers. A (very) good thief will always be able to destroy any Necro.

Verify the patch notes for rev. He got gutted.

it is possible for core if he set all his trait and skills to only pwn specific enemy, including reaper and rev. I mean, you know, in more general.

GodOfWar.3624:

How the HELL is this game Pay to Win? Did any of those idiots EVER play ANY OTHER MMORPG that was EVER made? This game is SOOO far from being Pay to Win. It’s one of the fairest cash shops I’ve ever seen.

could you tell me any core build that would fight evenly against vipor rev or reaper? Like 50:50

It is also proved that no one wants to join in any league stuffs since they know that the game is unbalanced. As a result of that this game lost huge numbers of its twitch viewers in return.

If anet don’t want to lose more twitch viewers they have to balance everything including core builds. Becuz as soon as f2p users see esports meta fight they think omg this game is p2w and quit the game.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ordered-list-of-OP-classes-after-patch/

the game is proved that pay2win. Why we should go esports as game is pay2win?

It is also proved that no one wants to join in any league stuffs since they know that the game is unbalanced. As a result of that this game lost huge numbers of its twitch viewers in return.

Never esports with this state. as a player i would deny esports.

The game should not be pay to win if ita goal is esports. Very basic thing. everything should be unlockable except account stuffs, and probably skins like costume, hair stuffs.

JTGuevara.9018:

online.1278:

Super OP : Rev, Reaper
Middle OP : Scrapper, Druid, Dragon Hunter, Daredevil (Daredevil highly depends on player’s personal instinct skill, meaning that this class can be super OP or normal. So I put this class in middle between Super OP and Normal)
Normal :Tempest, Chrono, Berserker
Weakest : All Core Jobs

This result was measured in NA’s dueling arena for more than 50 rounds against many classes using only core warrior (not berserker) to test everything from lowest tier to make the most fair result, to determine how much the game is pay2win right now.

Result Comment :
1. Definitely the game is pay2win.
2. Condi or hybrid dominates the game.

Disagree on that list. All the classes that were on top got their sustain chopped except for scrapper. Though thief’s attacks are buffed, they still melt just as fast. The only true bunkers I think this go-around will be druid and scrapper. I sense that people are getting worried about thief, but thief has pitiful HP. Reaper or any condi build will smoke it. Here’s my list and predictions in my opinion:

TOP TIER: Reaper, Scrapper
GREAT: Daredevil, Druid
NORMAL: Dragonhunter, Berserker, Herald
WEAK: Base Classes
BOTTOM TIER: Chrono, Tempest

it definitely differs based on what class you play. The list is made based on core warrior.

The kittening part why reaper is so much OPest is that they spam a bunch of condition including perma chill, even tho i get closer then they just simply transform with full of perma stability then deals huge attack. You just can do nothing against them in both ranged and melee.

The kittening OPest point of reaper is that they have 1200 range condition perma chill spam and perma stability. These are what should be ripped off. At least one of those super 1200 ranged perma chill or perma stability need to be deleted. it is just brainlessly OP in both ranged with 1200 range and melee with perma stability.

For rev, this guys just have just too much block to heal, block, evading attack. I found somewhat vipor rev is OPer than power rev. but overally OP anyway for mainly above reason. They have huge dps as well as pretty nice sustain.

With regular core warrior (or anything) you almost can do nothing against this kitten classes. Or tell me if there is with core warrior.

Def pay2win, just no wonder. It is not like 60:40 win ratios, but just massacre.

Brighteluden.2974:

I swear some people don’t understand the difference between a buy to play game and a pay to win game. Pay to win comes down to you spending money on micro transactions that give your character advantages over other players who don’t spend money on these transactions. In just about every MMO there is always a expansion that comes out and if you usually don’t buy that expansion you’re going to be left behind it’s just the way it is.

If the company’s goal is to succeed in true esports market, the game should never be pay2win.

top main post updated

yeah still pay2win

Yashuoa.9527:

online.1278:

Super OP : Rev, necro
Bit OP : engi, guardian, ranger
Normal :Ele, mes
Weak :Warrior, thief

What is so strong about Rev this patch?
Arent they more like average this patch?

Warrior is probably better than ele and mes now.
Maybe also better than Rev.

Thief is up there in the bit OP or Super OP list.

what ammy use for your rev?

Timston.1976:

Why is guard involved in this? Engi and ranger are way better than it. Guard doesn’t have the same sustain when paired with the same amulet

i just put there becuz i don’t want to make new category for guardian only. Guardian is like between normal and a bit OP.