I just want to say I can confirm pretty much all of this
Heres my observations so far.
Illusion pathfinding is borked.
They still regularly get stuck on hills, minor obstructions and occasionally just run in the opposite direction of their target.Illusions attacking out of range and not connecting with anything.
Sword clones are particularly prone to this, as are iSwordsmen. Illusions often shatter out of range and don’t damage their target.Clones still use Beta versions of skills.
Trident clones still stack confusion for example.Illusion summoning is still buggy and unreliable.
They still flat out fail in conditions where they should normally work, Illusionary leap still fails on stationary targets at point blank range.Phantasm specific summoning issues.
With the new behaviour introduced in the patch, Phantasm skills often miss, or otherwise fail in conditions in which they should work. The iWarden has had this behaviour for some time and was often overlooked because of how unreliable summoning it was, now ALL Phantasms act like this. In addition to the regular illusionary summoning bugs, they also enjoy projectile based bugs as well.iZerker damage and ability to hit target has been kittened.
iZerkers appear to do roughly a third of their original damage per hit, in addition they are connecting with their attacks considerably more unreliably, often outright missing and doing nothing.Illusionary Warden does not move between attacks.
Not entirely sure if this is intended or not, sometimes it half does sometimes it doesnt. There hasn’t been any official word either way so I have no idea. Personally I think it should though, its attack and summoning cooldown are huge and its attack is far from fast or hard to dodge.Condition removal skills are still bugged
Arcane Thievery is still buggy and rarely works. Despite it being ‘fixed’ I’ve noticed it still being blocked by Aegis. Null Field still randomly doesn’t remove conditions and boons. Mender’s Purity still often doesn’t work. I don’t know about Shattered Conditions because the only Grandmaster trait that isn’t garbage is Illusionary Persona.Phantasm buffs still broken.
Phantasmal Fury overwrites Phantasmal Healing, neither of which refresh properly on any Phantasm bar the Duellist.Sharper Image bleeding still fails on Illusion death.
Bleeding caused by this trait causes zero damage when the illusion dies, given how quickly this happens in most situations, this is a rather prevalent problem.The underwater version of Mimic lasts half as long as it does on land.
Pretty self explanatory, the window for absorption and reflection is half the time it is land with the same cooldown, very much hampering an already often ignored skill.Absorbed attack still causes full effects with Mimic(?)
Not entirely sure if this is intended or not, but full damage and effects are taken on the first attack, preventing it from defending against pulls dazes and stuns which will interrupt the skill and cause the full cooldown to take effect.Deception doesn’t break targeting.
Deception, the second downed skill does not break targeting and will almost never work as a result.Illusion of Drowning has generally unlimited range.
Illusion of Drowning can be used out of range and most of the time will work at almost any distance so long as you have something targeted.Temporal Curtain vertical range prevents it from reflecting projectiles.
Many Arching projectiles bypass it right now, slight elevation changes in terrain can also cause it to fail.Temporal Curtain’s Swiftness buff does not stack with others.
Pretty self explanatory.Distortion will sometimes fail to do anything.
Damage and various CC will often still occur during Distortion, from both the Shatter and Blurred Frenzy.Blink and other porting skill still hilariously broken.
You can still port through walls, the floor and out of the map in general. Additionally, porting over the top of objects still has a habit of failing.Blink occasionally doesn’t break stun.
Blink will often cause you to port, but not break stun. This happens more often than not with knockdowns.Mirror Blade often fails.
Mirror Blade will often fail to activate at closer ranges and act as if it has been interrupted.Illusionary Wave will fail at close range.
This skill will very rarely work at close range.There are a few more, but there is already a tread for it.
I would like to ad one more thing though.
Mind Stab (Greatsword) is an awful skill.
Roots the Mesmer, does poor damge and has awful range. Id like to see it get an extra 10 seconds or so on the cooldown, revert to its old animation and becoming a launch.
Yes. a launch.
Because that would be pretty dang awesome to see in a WvW Zerg.
Plasma, I completely agree with #4 and #5 although #1-#3 are a little out there and #6 would mean that the scepter becomes useless because you would have to remove the stack of 5 from it, as well as the Torch #5 skill would lose confusion.
Overall, I believe that there wouldn’t be a radical change to the effects from your post. I do think its an interesting concept about summoning illusions and having the bubbles fill and stay filled even if the illusions die…the only problem I could see is it being bugged allowing only 3 bubbles to be filled and no more illusions to spawn or having unlimited number of illusions spawning. Nice concepts though.
No No.. you would still be capped at 3 illusions just as before (shattering would cause any active illusions to die immediately, and summoning a fourth would cause one to die to make it equal to 3), and they could also still be lost when your current target dies or you drop combat.
The phantasm change would cause them to fit better with the devs’ apparent “vision” of phantasms as one-time attacks — while also cutting off any vestiges of “phantasm army” builds that are basically n00b traps in spvp. The movement of their secondary benefits (projectile blocks/reflects, regen, etc) to secondary spells in a “chain” after casting would assure we still have our defense and utilities while being chain blinded, even though we would rightfully be unable to connect offensive spells.
The shatter aoe change would provide more consistency to aoe damage as encounters scale in size.
The better consistency in the ability to AOE and the limit of phantasm attacks to 1 would provide better metrics for balancing, solve a lot of our DWE “mob-tagging” problems, and clear the way for a bit more damage to be relocated to the mesmer without losing the ability to “illusion-tank” in PVE or the flavor and feel of the profession.
It’s not as far out there as you think. It just removes a lot of RNG and frustration from the playstyle without a radical change in how the profession operates, while providing more consistent performance upon which to balance us rather than mesmers being balanced on the assumption that “all the stars always align”.
(edited by plasmacutter.2709)
Assuming there are any targets nearby, yes, it does that. If not, it’s also a wasted CD.
Sorry, I would’ve numbered them, but I figured the spaces were reference enough to what ability I meant. Dragon’s Tooth used to be a blast finisher, but that also seemed to get “fixed” in the last patch.
If there’s a CD then it’s sounds like a bug. I’ll try to get a screenie but my Defender and Disenchanter were just triggering the “Cannot summon this without a target” red text when I was blinded or interrupted in WvW…. kitten why can’t they have dummies cast debuffs…
Well, it’s nice to know the anti-zerg cd (defender) is now impossible to use while being zerged. THanks to this change, for mesmers blind now equates to stun or daze too!
Add this to the argument as to why they should still be summoned, even if the full duration of their first attack is dodged.
1 – if their vision of phantasms is to treat them the same as attacks, the phantasm’s associated utilities need to be made character-summonable rather than tied to an illusion which may not appear. (for instance, the warden should have a secondary which becomes available AFTER casting it, whether it fails or not, to put a feedback bubble on a random party member, a ground-targeted area, or foe equivalent to the size of the blade storm the phantasm cast!)
1.5 – When they do appear, phantasms should be ephemeral (lasting only one attack) but also untargetable (so the foe does not have two or 3 chances to foil it, only one like everyone else).
2 – our resource generation should still be coupled to the summoning of illusions, but shatters should not depend upon those illusions being active (you summon an illusion your “dot” bar fills, the dot doesn’t go away if the clone dies, your shatter will be an explosion radiating from your current target). This will make our shatters more dependable while allowing Anet team to better balance our damage, and allow us viability in large zergs and dungeons with lots of AOE.
3 – re-balance our single-target damage, in light of the newly single-attacking phantasms from change one, so more comes from the mesmer themselves.
4 – FIX LINE OF SIGHT IN GENERAL! It punishes mesmers more than any other profession.
5 – give more synergy and consistency to our traits from each line. Right now they seem to be all over the place, and very much isolated and a-la carte.
6 – (optional) make confusion a force to be reckoned with, but rarer, like an offensive version of your retaliation, or the “curse” ability gw1 vets mention.
These would be HUGE QOL changes without countering what seems to be the dev’s vision for the mesmer profession._
(edited by plasmacutter.2709)
Heh, I notice no response to dragon’s tooth, and a complete discounting of all other abilities rattled off.
I told you before the warden is not being summoned for damage, it’s being summoned to act as a projectile blocker and a regen battery for a group.
I don’t want it off to the side, I want it where I intended to summon it for a reason.
Mesmers, at the very least, don’t get their full CD like a Engineer does. And therefore get the chance to still summon it quickly afterward
screenshots please, all reports are mesmers eating the full cooldown.
Y’know, I wasn’t looking forward to some of these changes even though I honestly do agree with them in the grand scheme of things.
But honestly? Reading this forum over the past couple of days, I actually wouldn’t mind a few more nerfs, just to weed out the chaff from the mesmer player base. At least after that we’ll know the only people left are either hardcore or hipsters. xD
So let’s see… I’ll go with:
- longer Blink cooldown
- capping the number of projectiles reflected by Feedback
- Illusionary Persona duplicates core shatter effects, but no longer benefits from secondary shatter effects from traits, and no longer allows shatters to be used without illusions.
- Illusionists Celerity reduced to 10%
- Sharper Images now has a reduced chance to cause bleeds proportional to the number of attacks generated by the same skill for any ability that hits more than once.There. That should do it.
Any change to shatter or clone viability will be inconsequential because as of this patch we no longer have illusions when we need them.
“you can’t summon that, you are blinded”
“you can’t summon that, you were blocked”
“you can’t summon that, your opponent dodged”
“you can’t summon that against an invulnerable target”
WoW.. dev reply to an obvious iberzerker bug, but zero attention to them utterly breaking our class and making every evade, block, and blind equivalent to an interrupt ONLY for mesmer.
Please make the blocks, dodges, and blinds apply to the phantasm’s first attack, but still allow it to spawn.
Inspiration tree (you know, the non-damaging support one?) got a MASSIVE nerf this patch for no good reason.
If an Elementalist casts meteor storm and the opponent dodges, at least there’s still a fire field on the ground to use.
If an Elementalist casts dragon’s tooth and the primary target dodges, any nearby targets are still hit.
If a Thief uses steal and the opponent rolls, the Thief still ends up behind the opponent (In fact the Thief can steal regardless of any status effect on him).
If a Mesmer uses Warden and the opponent has Aegis, I hope you weren’t planning on it reflecting projectiles or granting group-regen because now the attack won’t even appear.
In fact I can’t think of anything else that is like this. Does an Engineer’s turrets not spawn if he’s out of range? Does a Ranger not evade attacks with his third Greatsword attack if he’s blinded? Does a Mesmer not get his whirl combo finisher if he doesn’t have line of sight? Oh wait, he doesn’t because the attack doesn’t happen at all if the phantasm doesn’t come out.
No other class can have their attack “not happen” unless they are interrupted. Essentially rolling, blinding, aegis, evasion, ect… now all “interrupt” the Mesmer preventing them from even attacking with 20% of their attacks.
Also dont understand why other mesmer players seem to think its fine to completly ignore game mechanics such as block, blind or los. all other classes have to deal with it, what would the mesmer make an exception?
Because a phantasm is not just an “attack”, it produces a low-hp group buff bot as well if you spec ANY points into inspiration. In PVE the time you need those group buffs and utilities most is when you’re being zerged by many mobs.
For every other class the attack still comes out.
If an Elementalist casts meteor storm and the opponent dodges, at least there’s still a fire field on the ground to use.
If a Thief uses steal and the opponent rolls, the Thief still ends up behind the opponent (In fact the Thief can steal regardless of any status effect on him).
If a Mesmer uses Warden and the opponent has Aegis, I hope you weren’t planning on it reflecting projectiles because now the attack won’t even appear.
In fact I can’t think of anything else that is like this. Does an Engineer’s turrets not spawn if he’s out of range? Does a Ranger not evade attacks with his third Greatsword attack if he’s blinded? Does a Mesmer not get his whirl combo finisher if he doesn’t have line of sight? Oh wait, he doesn’t because the attack doesn’t happen at all if the phantasm doesn’t come out.
No other class can have their attack “not happen” unless they are interrupted. Essentially rolling, blinding, aegis, evasion, ect… now all “interrupt” the Mesmer preventing them from even attacking with 20% of their attacks.
Karl, Any comment on why we get special discrimination with our group buffs and area-based utilities that are shackled to phantasms that now will not spawn when we’re blinded, evaded, or blocked?
For every other class the attack still comes out.
If an Elementalist casts meteor storm and the opponent dodges, at least there’s still a fire field on the ground to use.
If a Thief uses steal and the opponent rolls, the Thief still ends up behind the opponent (In fact the Thief can steal regardless of any status effect on him).
If a Mesmer uses Warden and the opponent has Aegis, I hope you weren’t planning on it reflecting projectiles because now the attack won’t even appear.
In fact I can’t think of anything else that is like this. Does an Engineer’s turrets not spawn if he’s out of range? Does a Ranger not evade attacks with his third Greatsword attack if he’s blinded? Does a Mesmer not get his whirl combo finisher if he doesn’t have line of sight? Oh wait, he doesn’t because the attack doesn’t happen at all if the phantasm doesn’t come out.
No other class can have their attack “not happen” unless they are interrupted. Essentially rolling, blinding, aegis, evasion, ect… now all “interrupt” the Mesmer preventing them from even attacking with 20% of their attacks.
For the record:
bunker builds are the last gasp of any class in any game when all other viable builds are destroyed.
You can’t do decent burst, so you just try to outlast (and against any competent player who is NOT playing a fundamentally broken class, you don’t outlast)
So yeah, stack the toughness, vitality, and condition damage, because you’re in for a boring and frustrating ride.
This patch. (for the record, i was PERFECTLY FINE with every other patch thus far)
I don’t care about phantasm attacks not connecting due to blind, block, or dodge, but I run an inspiration build.
I count on them for regeneration, projectile block, and many others, and now during invulnerable phases or those zergy paths where you’re spammed with conditions you will lose the ability to summon phantasms for defense when you need them most.
I’ll go guard for the control and boons or ele for the damage and healing.
I’ve had enough. Until they put the list of fixes I suggested to the Q&A on “what do you think of mesmers” or revert the “dodge, block or blind prevents illusions from even spawning” , I’m swapping toons.
What this change does is turn nearly every one of the many status effects and actions which cause people to miss to be a full-on “interrupt” to ONLY mesmers.
When other people’s skills that cause combo fields, group might, etc miss, they still leave the field and the group might behind. Not mesmers, they’re special and therefore have to be penalized extra for being blinded, blocked, or dodged.
Hope you weren’t counting on warden block while the golem was invulnerable, because its not happening now, even though you don’t want the warden for the damage.
Yet to try out PvP in this game but this is why I absolutely hated merged talent trees for PvP and PvE in that other unmentionable MMO. PvE players suffer through no fault of their own from PvP nerfs. GW2 solved many problems plaguing other MMOs but not this one.
My thoughts on what changes SHOULD be made to mesmer to allow better balance are below:
1 – if their vision of phantasms is to treat them the same as attacks, the phantasm’s associated utilities need to be made character-summonable as a secondary attack rather than tied to an illusion which may not appear. (for instance, the warden should have a secondary which becomes available AFTER casting it, whether it fails or not, to put a feedback bubble on a random party member or foe equivalent to the size of the blade storm the phantasm cast!)
1.5 – When they do appear, phantasms should be ephemeral (lasting only one attack) but also untargetable (so the foe does not have two or 3 chances to foil it, only one like everyone else).
2 – our resource generation should still be coupled to the summoning of illusions, but shatters should not depend upon those illusions being active (you summon an illusion your “dot” bar fills, the dot doesn’t go away if the clone dies, your shatter will be an explosion radiating from your current target). This will make our shatters more dependable while allowing Anet team to better balance our damage, and allow us viability in large zergs and dungeons with lots of AOE.
3 – re-balance our single-target damage, in light of the newly single-attacking phantasms from change one, so more comes from the mesmer themselves.
4 – FIX LINE OF SIGHT IN GENERAL! It punishes mesmers more than any other profession.
5 – give more synergy and consistency to our traits from each line. Right now they seem to be all over the place, and very much isolated and a-la carte.
6 – (optional) make confusion a force to be reckoned with, but rarer, like an offensive version of your retaliation, or the “curse” ability gw1 vets mention.
These would be HUGE QOL changes without countering what seems to be the dev’s vision for the mesmer profession._
The above comparisons are NOT apples to oranges. Each of the attacks mentioned have secondary actions that have nothing to do with damage, and when they miss they still leave their combo fields and secondary group utility effects behind.
The example in the quote above is most prescient: The warden.
This thing does aoe damage. It should still spawn even if the one target you have out of many dodges it. It should still provide the feedback bubble to block/reflect projectiles even if it does no damage. It should still provide ammo for shatters even if its attack does not connect. (other phantasms leave regenration on party members if you have moderate investment in inspiration the entire support line depends upon phantasms actually spawning. Not doing damage, not connecting attacks, but simply spawning)
My thoughts:
A unique concept not brought to full fruition. (My thoughts on how to fulfill this below!)
Our illusions are too fragile, and now too undependable since the changes, to be able to reliably use 70% of our arsenal.
It’s clear the implementation that they chose, clunky as it was, was considered OP’d by the non-mesmer community, but now they’re tearing it down without offering anything to restore the functionality provided by the ability to reliably spawn the phantasms we depend upon for group utility, defense, group boon application, and as a resource for our shatters.
At this point the recent changes should be reverted to restore viability, and a major effort headed to re-design the profession.
_I’d like to see the following changes:
1 – if their vision of phantasms is to treat them the same as attacks, the phantasm’s associated utilities need to be made character-summonable rather than tied to an illusion which may not appear. (for instance, the warden should have a secondary which becomes available AFTER casting it, whether it fails or not, to put a feedback bubble on a random party member or foe equivalent to the size of the blade storm the phantasm cast!)
1.5 – When they do appear, phantasms should be ephemeral (lasting only one attack) but also untargetable (so the foe does not have two or 3 chances to foil it, only one like everyone else).
2 – our resource generation should still be coupled to the summoning of illusions, but shatters should not depend upon those illusions being active (you summon an illusion your “dot” bar fills, the dot doesn’t go away if the clone dies, your shatter will be an explosion radiating from your current target). This will make our shatters more dependable while allowing Anet team to better balance our damage, and allow us viability in large zergs and dungeons with lots of AOE.
3 – re-balance our single-target damage, in light of the newly single-attacking phantasms from change one, so more comes from the mesmer themselves.
4 – FIX LINE OF SIGHT IN GENERAL! It punishes mesmers more than any other profession.
5 – give more synergy and consistency to our traits from each line. Right now they seem to be all over the place, and very much isolated and a-la carte.
6 – (optional) make confusion a force to be reckoned with, but rarer, like an offensive version of your retaliation, or the “curse” ability gw1 vets mention.
These would be HUGE QOL changes without countering what seems to be the dev’s vision for the mesmer profession._
(edited by plasmacutter.2709)
The change regarding illusion generation was a serious double-standard which, unlike the profession skill examples below, is utterly crippling for us:
For every other class the attack still comes out.
If an Elementalist casts meteor storm and the opponent dodges, at least there’s still a fire field on the ground to use.
If a Thief uses steal and the opponent rolls, the Thief still ends up behind the opponent (In fact the Thief can steal regardless of any status effect on him).
If a Mesmer uses Warden and the opponent has Aegis, I hope you weren’t planning on it reflecting projectiles because now the attack won’t even appear.
In fact I can’t think of anything else that is like this. Does an Engineer’s turrets not spawn if he’s out of range? Does a Ranger not evade attacks with his third Greatsword attack if he’s blinded? Does a Mesmer not get his whirl combo finisher if he doesn’t have line of sight? Oh wait, he doesn’t because the attack doesn’t happen at all if the phantasm doesn’t come out.
No other class can have their attack “not happen” unless they are interrupted. Essentially rolling, blinding, aegis, evasion, ect… now all “interrupt” the Mesmer preventing them from even attacking with 20% of their attacks.
Prescient Observations about how this is an unbelievable double-standard vs every other profession:
Except this is not the same[as everyone else’s normal attack]. For every other class the attack still comes out.
If an Elementalist casts meteor storm and the opponent dodges, at least there’s still a fire field on the ground to use.
If a Thief uses steal and the opponent rolls, the Thief still ends up behind the opponent (In fact the Thief can steal regardless of any status effect on him).
If a Mesmer uses Warden and the opponent has Aegis, I hope you weren’t planning on it reflecting projectiles because now the attack won’t even appear.
In fact I can’t think of anything else that is like this. Does an Engineer’s turrets not spawn if he’s out of range? Does a Ranger not evade attacks with his third Greatsword attack if he’s blinded? Does a Mesmer not get his whirl combo finisher if he doesn’t have line of sight? Oh wait, he doesn’t because the attack doesn’t happen at all if the phantasm doesn’t come out.
No other class can have their attack “not happen” unless they are interrupted. Essentially rolling, blinding, aegis, evasion, ect… now all “interrupt” the Mesmer preventing them from even attacking with 20% of their attacks.
Phantasms function as both a resource and a group utility ability in addition to just a simple attack.
Should the attack not connect if blinded, dodged, or blocked? SURE!, but the phantasms should still spawn to produce their secondary and tertiary effects.
Here is an observation on just how much of a double-standard is being applied with this capricious and profession-breaking change.
For every other class the attack still comes out.
If an Elementalist casts meteor storm and the opponent dodges, at least there’s still a fire field on the ground to use.
If a Thief uses steal and the opponent rolls, the Thief still ends up behind the opponent (In fact the Thief can steal regardless of any status effect on him).
If a Mesmer uses Warden and the opponent has Aegis, I hope you weren’t planning on it reflecting projectiles because now the attack won’t even appear.
In fact I can’t think of anything else that is like this. Does an Engineer’s turrets not spawn if he’s out of range? Does a Ranger not evade attacks with his third Greatsword attack if he’s blinded? Does a Mesmer not get his whirl combo finisher if he doesn’t have line of sight? Oh wait, he doesn’t because the attack doesn’t happen at all if the phantasm doesn’t come out.
No other class can have their attack “not happen” unless they are interrupted. Essentially rolling, blinding, aegis, evasion, ect… now all “interrupt” the Mesmer preventing them from even attacking with 20% of their attacks.
(edited by plasmacutter.2709)
If I wanted conditions I’d have started with necro and STAYED in necro.
If you wanted glass cannon, why didn’t you go thief or warrior?
Who said I played glass cannon? I mentioned it before, Mine is a balanced build with anti-projectile, kiting, and lockdown support as the major selling points.
HP pools are too high in most group encounters to justify glass-cannon.
Not having phantasms and clones spawn while mobs block, blind, or are invulnerable is a terrible change with little forethought as to their impact on explorables.
Phantasms serve as sources of regeneration, boons and boon removal, projectile reflection, aoe damage, and many other purposes which have nothing to do with the targeted foe, and which are now compromised due to an ill-thought nerf.
Not being able to generate resources for 50% of your UTILITY and SUPPORT arsenal while a boss is invulnerable is not acceptable.
I’m just gonna say this.
I still destroy anything that dares come near me in PvP. So either I’m doing something right or you’re doing something very, very wrong.
Even the other glass cannon mesmers in the guild can destroy enemies in seconds, with these apparent nerfs in place.The discussion ends there, as I am able to pump out endless streams of videos demonstrating this rendering any attempt at calling us nerfed husks of our former selves useless and ironic.
yes, this game doesn’t have PVE at all.
Btw, my question to your friends: “how do you like standing at the bottom of that wall doing nothing?, being killed by a camp of NPCs that spam blind because you have no clones, and having your AOE nullified because your zerker targeted a guardian and never spawned?”
Soooo don’t stand in the obvious area that the boss is about to smash a condition into?
Yes, clearly not standing in fire is going to make my phantasms actually appear when there’s a staircase, a crack in the terrain, a bunch of tiny adds spamming blind, the boss is invulnerable but spamming missiles my warden COULD have reflected before this patch, etc.
You’re not painting yourself in the brightest of purples right now, you know.
Please do talk to yourself more often. Maybe one of these days you will listen and wake from your stupor.
No mesmer I know in game is complaining at all.
They must be very dim or stick with zergs all day.
Yes, and when your style hits a bump on the road?
“DRHAURRH NOW PLAYSTYLE NO WORK!”Ever think of changing it to something else without making an excuse or complaining?
It’s like evolution in the game; those who learn to adapt survive, those who don’t are doomed.
I adapt by moving to the next-closest viable option compared to what Anet’s idiot devs have capriciously and thoughtlessly stolen from me.
In this case, it is no longer mesmer.
If I wanted conditions I’d have started with necro and STAYED in necro.
Yes, it interrupts. Most of those aren’t fully instant cast, they’re on a 3/4 or 1 second cast timer, which can be interrupted.
:/
Oh, it interrupts through a bubble of invulnerability? You tell me how that goes then!
Hold up, you do know Chaos Storm isn’t effected by blind and provides the same support as Phantasms do, right?
If you like taking a NAP between chaos storms. Unfortunately those bosses and the more synergistic trash packs won’t wait for you to wake up before resuming their efforts to pound your group into dust.
If you assign a build to a class then you’re doing it wrong and should really leave GW2.
Condition Bunkers are very powerful on a Mesmer.If I used the same logic: if I wanted to be a Glass Cannon I’d roll a BS Thief or a 5 Signet Warrior.
Yes, everyone who doesn’t want to play your build is “wrong” for not considering it.
I compromise and give up my time for things I don’t like when i’m paid for it. When i’m the one paying, my preferred style of play better kitten well be viable.
1) Magic Bullet, Temporal Curtain, GS Skill 5 (name?), Feedback
This stops them from from putting up wards and casting defensive group-boons? I think not sir. Do YOU know the class you’re playing?
Further, does this happen in PVE? blinds, blocks, invulnerability, et al happen in pve and in much more extended periods than “stunlock”
let me know when i can chain blind a guardian and in so doing prevent him from booning, warding, and healing his group the way chain blind will now prevent me summoning the phantasms necessary to perform the same function.
blind is now, unlike any other profession, a FULL BLOWN CC for mesmers only.
Except there was no patch which handed EVERYONE about 6 different ways to “counter” anyone else’s core mechanic. “counter” is also too weak a word. I believe the phrase is “permanently nullify”. Mesmers are not the tankiest class, but even in my build I can chain evasion ridiculously. Let’s think about what a guardian or a thief could do?
Because every class had about 6 ways to counter everyone elses core mechanics from RELEASE, Mesmers were the black sheep. You couldn’t counter their phantasm generation, meaning no matter what you did you’d have Phantasms on you.
It made iZerker double OP because you couldn’t dodge its first attack.I’m actually amazed at this, it’s like you’re trying to find things to complain about on purpose.
Please let me know what abilities I had as a mesmer that I could SPAM to prevent guardians from ever being able to CAST GS3 (spin 2 win).
Please let me know what abilities I had as a mesmer that I could SPAM to prevent guardians from using group-utilities like “save yourselves” , “symbols”, or “wards”.
You see, our equivalents require us to have these things called “illusions” active.
Our group boons are tied to phantasms instead of symbols.
Our wards and kiting tools are 50% tied to phantasms instead of individual utilities or personally-cast weapon skills.
Our personal escapes, our most ready interrupts, and 50% of our aoe damage are tied to illusions.
I’m absolutely amazed at this, it’s as if you’re trying to purposefully ignore the fact everything we have that is of consequence is tied to our phantasms.
See that Necromancer AoE that applies conditions? See how its a good resource for damaging multiple targets and acts as a class mechanic? See how Null Field shreds it apart rending it useless?
See that 30 second cooldown? See that it’s only availalble to mesmer, see how it’s not handed out like candy like dodge, block, blind, LOS, and invulnerability?
See how until stairs, tiny cracks in the terrain, posts, blind, dodge, and block are made just as rare, this is a specious comparison?
Every class BUT the Mesmer could have their “core mechanic” countered.
Except there was no patch which handed EVERYONE about 6 different ways to “counter” anyone else’s core mechanic. “counter” is also too weak a word. I believe the phrase is “permanently nullify”. Mesmers are not the tankiest class, but even in my build I can chain evasion ridiculously. Let’s think about what a guardian or a thief could do?
And if you’re running a GS Mesmer for “anti-projectile, kiting, and lockdown” then why the heck are you complaining about an iZerker damage nerf?
I’m setting aside the iSerker nerf. I’m talking about the clone generation nerf which is MUCH worse, though deceptively so.
Syn thinks my dodging should be able to prevent guardians from putting up wards to keep me away from them, because that’s the rough equivalent of what happens when mesmers are being trained but have no illusions for F4.
If I want a condition bunker build I’ll roll a necro.
I play mesmer for the greatsword.
And no, I don’t play glass cannon, I play a well-rounded support build focusing on anti-projectile, kiting, and lockdown, and this patch HURTS me badly.
The berzerker issue is not even the tip of the iceberg.
These toolsheds seem to forget phantasms are far more than just damage for mesmers:
They’re a source of group buffs like regeneration and group utilities like projectile block/reflect.
They’re a fully-fledged resource used for utility spells like distortion and diversion.
These toolshed devs who took over for the REAL mesmer dev on holiday decided it would be perfectly ok for anything that blinds or evades to gut our core class mechanics and resources, and cost us a minimum of 1 attack and 2 utility spells for each evasion, block, invulnerability, or blind, and to make it impossible in PVE to put up one of our most potent projectile reflects while the target is invulnerable.
Maybe now the nub Mesmers will leave for other cheap classes.
Gettin’ real tired of the bads crying over FIXES!
yes, we’re “bads” for pointing out how fundamentally this harms our core mechanics.
so we now have no clone generation vs opponents who know how to chain evasion, no skills which can pick people off at any meaningful elevation difference due to LOS glitches, no viable aoe due to clone generation and LOS issues, and the remaining issues which were pre-existing with the mesmer profession wrap it all up in a nice bow.
Anyone who doesn’t see the absurdity of these changes and how horrifically they will hurt mesmer’s core play has Stockholm syndrome.
I run a glass cannon build, which now is a glass pee-shooter.
Now stop and think for a second.
Anet did announce that they’d be nerfing burst in the long run and although you cant see it in the patch notes every class is complaining about doing less damage.
What does this mean?Glass Cannons are now less viable, opening the way for other builds to emerge.
Now would be a good time to remix your build if you want to stay a glass cannon, or become a real Mesmer and run a Condition Bunker like me. <3
Condition-bunker builds are for necros. I’d prefer something that actually utilizes a greatsword, because that’s the most unique thing there is to mesmer: a clothie using a greatsword as a ranged weapon.
If they won’t make that viable, the next alternative is dual dagger ele.
Did you really completely ignore both of my previous posts? and he’s the dense one.
Im ingoring Syn at this point.
I’m just hoping to see a more balanced approach taken by the devs. I LIKE my mesmer, but was already pulling rabbits out of my hat, ears, and keaster to bring equivalent utility to others in explorables.
I’m forced to shelve my toon for an ele or guardian if I want to play a group-centric role while this persists.
just like every class, of course it goes on cd… if a melee class uses there skill and you aren’t in range it goes on cd(i assume) so how is mesmer any different? if you miss the skill you don’t do damage
Oh, Necro pet summons and Ranger pet calls, the closest comparable thing, go on CD when they don’t connect or the Ranger/Necro is blinded?
no… and neither do our shatters, but these are skills going on cd when blinded, which is the way it should be
Yes, our ability to shield friendly players from projectiles, ALL ticks of the warden’s aoe on ALL targets, the regen boon the warden provides when it activates, and the 30% progress to the next shatter should all be nullified by ONE blind, block, or dodge!
Might I remind you that AOE is not subject to blind, but somehow our aoe phantasms get negated by blind? You still stand by this hypocrisy of only mesmers being socked for no aoe damage by a blind, only mesmers being denied non-offensive kit by a blind, and only mesmers being denied a second attack by the same, single blind?
I think this has gone far enough. Enjoy my ignore.
Another clueless person who can’t be bothered to actually play a mesmer.
lol
Wow, you pulled a character pane off google images and expect us to believe you.
(btw, that pitiful set of stats says its an ALT and you still know nothing of the core mechanics)
i welcome you to transfer to kodash/riverside then, the fact is you’re bad and you have no idea of core game mechanics let alone class mechaincs
Says the idiot who can’t do math or understand the basic function of phantasms and illusions in this game.
Iet me spell it out for you:
Our new inability to generate illusions based on all the mentioned boons and conditions means:
1 – we lose the initial damage from our illusions and phantasms
2 – we lose all the passives those phantasms would bring that have NOTHING to do with attacking, and everything to do with our group utility. They’re tied to phantasms instead of targeted aoe or signets
3 – we lose the resources we use to shatter, which means we lose our primary source of daze-interrupt, oh-crap invulnerability, and aoe.
Add to that the fact that half our “single targeted” phantasms are aoe and will not spawn because the ONE mob you targeted blocked, and you have about 85% of our toolkit —- offense, defense, and group utility, completely BONED.
You then call anyone who cries foul over the evisceration of our core class mechanics and the amplification of blinds, blocks, and invulnerability to 3x their normal effectiveness against ONLY mesmers “bad”.
you, sir, are an idiotic troll.
you’re so dense it’s unreal
Really? How about you back up that assertion?
i’m guessing you forgot what you just spewed out?
mesmers skills no longer go off when blinded or the targets invunerable! inform the press!
That does not address the very sound case I put forward that a phantasm doesn’t represent a single mesmer skill, but two skills and the resource for a third – and that denying the generation of that phantasm you are negating 3 skills, not one. If you’re not going to be intellectually honest I’ll leave you here to rot in your ignominy.
EDIT:
The aoe skills provided by phantasm are also counted as multiple hits for every other profession which uses the same attack. Somehow being blinded or blocked blocks ALL hits for our phantasms, but not for the warrior using 100 blades or the guardian spinning to win.
(edited by plasmacutter.2709)
So… everytime a player gets downed u cant cast a phantasm on him because he is temporarly invulnerable and u have to wait the full CD for it again? Everytime u are blinded u have to deblind urself to use these skills again? waht if u are blinded every second? Everytime someone dodges your attacks, your phantasms fail? is this supposed to be some sort of a joke? lol
So let me get this traight, i am going to play CoE, i have this “evolved” destroyer invulnerable pretty much 80% of the fight, now i will no longer be able to cast damage before its crappy shield is down?
This is an excelent patch that adds excelence in balance, geesh i gotta be carefull now, one day alpha will come here and complain about my blink ability.
it’s better than that. Those illusions are your primary resource (and source) of the vast majority of your utility abilities! That means not only are you robbed of the initial attack from the illusion, you’re also robbed of any passive utility it provides to the group (traited or not), AND you are robbed of the resource necessary for your shatter-based abilities! That’s 3 abilities nullified for the price of one!
You cast zerker or warden on a pack.. the ONE target you had in the pack was blocking, invulnerable, or made you blind
you now lose aoe on THE WHOLE PACK
you cast warden or any other phantasm during an invulnerable phase or when a ton of adds are out trying to give everyone regen and projectile protection.. sorry, that’s not going to happen either.
you no longer have illusions up due to these factors for distortion or diversion.
This change, which i’m sure some short-sighted devs decided upon while the mesmer dev was out on holiday break, is quite possibly the most game-breaking change i’ve seen to anyone on any game. The closest thing I’ve seen before to this was the wow “life tap nerf” that never made it off the PTR because the playerbase beta-testing it managed to talk sense into the devs.
And no, I did not complain before this patch about any balance change.
not sure why you’re complaining about it though… seems very petty
Another clueless person who can’t be bothered to actually play a mesmer.
(edited by plasmacutter.2709)
If I wasn’t using a Grandmaster trait (Illusionary Persona) I would have been completely denied of my class mechanics and many of my traits, due to some stupid chain blind.
I can’t wait to see Thieves taking advantage of chain blinding Mesmers now…. if I knew that Thieves were going to be better Mesmers than actual Mesmers, then that may have influenced my initial class choice.
Exactly.
My favorite scenarios so far are losing projectile block AND aoe from the warden on a whole pack just because the one you targeted blocked.
A valid point is some have invested a lot of time and gold in to their gear and having to buy different gear and weapons to be viable is a tad rude. Nerfs at times are inevitable, but a major nerf like this with no word or explanation is plain wrong.
The greatsword bug is annoying to be sure, but I was prepared to ‘wait that out’.
What I can’t stomach is the utterly simplistic view Anet has taken to our illusion generation.
Look at our traits and skills. Most of the skills provided by other people’s active targeted aoe and signets are baked as passives into our illusions, as are 30% of our damage, 90% of our defense, and 65% of our AOE.
Now, anyone who reads these patch notes knows they can use blind, dodge, or invulnerability to deny us illusion generation and in so doing starve us to death.
We’ll no longer provide group utilities like regen. Our iWarden won’t be there to reflect projectiles. Our set of 3 will not be there to provide us with daze or distortion. Half our phantasms produce aoe, but if the ONE person we happen to target does this to us, we lose damage on EVERYONE.
We will be sitting ducks with no aoe and nothing to provide the group.
That is bad design. I’m just sad I spent so much on my mesmer.
hahah its such a joke when your ONLY option to be half useful for pve/dungeons is to run a shatter build. in wvw you throw your mes to garbage because its by far the worst class in the game now, gg anet! across the years i’ve learned they’re one of the worst when it comes to nerfing/fixing (going by gw1).
Mez also have a tank/cc build which is extremely helpful in dgns.
So why not think before you speak.
the mez tank/cc build that any necro regardless of build can out-do with a staff and their utility bar (6-0)?
illusion creation period should always be treated as divorced from their attacks.
The illusions are a resource we mesmers use for dozens of abilities.
The illusions themselves provide defensive and group-wide passives such as anti-projectile bubbles, regeneration, protection, retaliation.
Anet does not play their own game as mesmer, I think.
It makes the way warlocks were treated in “the game which shall not be named” look just and even kind!
All I know is we need EVERY defensive ability currently tied to illusions moved to signets or targetable aoe.
The ability to negate illusion summon by simply dodging, blocking, invulning, or blinding will mean we not only lose the attack that summons the illusion, but any passives it provides (I can think of DOZENS) , as well as the next shatter.
I think the main mesmer dev went on extended holiday leave, because no sane person who has ever played mesmer would ever suggest a thing.
Having phantasms fail to connect if blinded – sure
Having phantasms fail to connect if invulnerable – sure
Having phantasms fail to summon if out of LOS – sure
Having them fail to summon PERIOD from any of the myriad of ways people can negate incoming damage? HELL NO
These are our resource. We are balanced around and depend upon rapid generation of these things.
Embolism.8106
All Phantasms except Berserker (and maybe Disenchanter) were always negated by Blind and Invulnerability. It amuses me people cite this as a HUGE NERF when it has in fact been the case for most Phantasms already.No….you could still summon the illusion…the illusion’s attacks were interrupted, yes, but not the actual generation of the illusion. I think they should be treated like pets and not like attacks. You can’t block necros, rangers, and theives from generating their pets why are mesmers blocked from doing so?
1) Thief pets have large cooldowns, low durations, and are easy to kill
2) Same with necro pets, except for the added fact that necro pets have godawful AI.
3) Rangers keep their pets out constantly and they rely on these pets for 45% of their damage. They don’t teleport to their targets, instead they have to chase them down and hope they stand still (ranger pets can’t hit moving targets).
Mesmers had these nerfs coming.
Theyre not just sources of damage. They are a fully-fledged resource that are REQUIRED for more than half of our arsenal.
Most of the utilities provided by SIGNETS for everyone else depend upon us having illusions up. Half of our DEFENSES depend upon us having illusions up. Half of our CONDITION APPLICATION depends upon us having illusions up. Half of our GROUP BUFFS depend upon us having illusions up.
being robbed of illusions generation by treating it as a normal attack denies us not only that one ability, but any passive provided by the illusions AND the next ability we need to use.
That’s TRIPLE PENALTY and the removal of of a resource we depend upon.
How would you like it if your guardian, necro, or thief’s signets, wells, and symbols could not be used while they’re blinded or their enemy has a ward, block, or dodge active?!
If you read this and still believe this is a fair change, I think you and your —entire--extended—family— need to contract terminal illness.
(edited by plasmacutter.2709)
These skills now behave as normal attacks that the mesmer must connect in order to summon the phantasm, and they will fail if the mesmer is blind or the ability is cast on an invulnerable target.
Illusions are not just sources of damage. They are a fully-fledged resource that are REQUIRED ACTIVE for more than half of our arsenal.
being robbed of illusions generation by treating it as a normal attack denies us not only that one ability, but any passives provided by the illusions AND the next ability we need to use.
That’s TRIPLE PENALTY and the removal of of a resource we depend upon.
Most of the utilities provided by SIGNETS for everyone else depend upon us having illusions up. Half of our DEFENSES depend upon us having illusions up. Half of our CONDITION APPLICATION depends upon us having illusions up. Half of our GROUP BUFFS depend upon us having illusions up—— PARTICULARLY PHANTASMS.
How would you like it if your guardian, necro, or thief’s signets, wells, and symbols could not be used while they’re blinded or their enemy has a ward, block, or dodge active?!
(edited by plasmacutter.2709)
All Phantasms except Berserker (and maybe Disenchanter) were always negated by Blind and Invulnerability. It amuses me people cite this as a HUGE NERF when it has in fact been the case for most Phantasms already.
BS they were.
my phantasms and illusions always came out, then failed to hit, but were still THERE to afford me distortion or daze in a pinch.
The failure to summon one removes our ability to generate the primary resource used for our most important abilities.
no other profession in the game is crippled in this way. No other profession in this game gets denied more than a single attack per blind.
Give us back illusion summons even if the attacks themselves cant connect.
The illusions left over serve as a resource to be used for utilities.
We don’t just lose the damage from the initial attack, we lose any passives from having those illusions active (other professions have signets for this that can’t be killed!), and the ability to shatter for a second attack or a defense.
That’s 3 (THREE!!) abilities lost from a single blind, dodge, block, or invulnerability compared to one from everyone else, and all other professions still have access to ALL DEFENSES when their opponent blocks! (if you lose the warden due to this, you end up losing projectile reflect for the whole group, too! so THREE is an UNDERSTATEMENT)
I won’t even touch the magnitude of the injustice that is the failure to summon an AOE Phantasm just becuase the ONE target you selected pulls any of these out of his hat.
ANet’s devs have gone OVER THE LINE drawing a simplistic false equivalency between phantasms and attacks.
Except this is not the same. For every other class the attack still comes out.
If an Elementalist casts meteor storm and the opponent dodges, at least there’s still a fire field on the ground to use.
If a Thief uses steal and the opponent rolls, the Thief still ends up behind the opponent (In fact the Thief can steal regardless of any status effect on him).
If a Mesmer uses Warden and the opponent has Aegis, I hope you weren’t planning on it reflecting projectiles because now the attack won’t even appear.
In fact I can’t think of anything else that is like this. Does an Engineer’s turrets not spawn if he’s out of range? Does a Ranger not evade attacks with his third Greatsword attack if he’s blinded? Does a Mesmer not get his whirl combo finisher if he doesn’t have line of sight? Oh wait, he doesn’t because the attack doesn’t happen at all if the phantasm doesn’t come out.
No other class can have their attack “not happen” unless they are interrupted. Essentially rolling, blinding, aegis, evasion, ect… now all “interrupt” the Mesmer preventing them from even attacking with 20% of their attacks.
(edited by plasmacutter.2709)
Blinds, blocks, and dodges now negate 2 or 3 mesmer abilities (including non-attacks!) compared to ONE from everyone else
the illusions which USED to be left over (summoned, but did no damage before, but are no longer summoned) serve(d) as a fully fledged resource for half of our arsenal and are now no longer generated!
We don’t just lose the damage from the attack, we lose any of the multiple possible group-wide passives and the ability to shatter for a second attack or a defense. (if you’re using iwarden or image you’re also losing their defensive actives, making it a QUADROUPLE PENALTY)
Give us back illusion summons even if the attacks themselves cant connect.
We are essentially being double or even TRIPLE penalized for blinds, blocks, or dodges depending on our traits.
ANet’s devs have taken an overly simplistic view and gone OVER THE LINE drawing a false equivalence between illusions and attacks.
Simple is fact that not all mesmer builds rely on illusion for doing dmg but actually rely on the illusion being out and able to shatter. They way it worked before was if say someone evaded your illusion cast the dmg was negated but still had your illusion out(Which is way whole mesmer class was made to have illusion out for x number of abilities) So basically they just made it worse for use to realy on illusion shatter builds. It would be like someone casting blind on a necro and a minion would go poof on them. Or blind on a ranger and his pet went poof(if in a alternate reality and pets actually were useful in pvp)
(edited by plasmacutter.2709)
What is your propuse around here exactly? Asking question to me?
Just trying to figure out why you think we should get special treatment against blinds.
Special treatment. Again, i’d like to see these change applyed over all class.
Be advise: I’m not saying that for real because Anet will lose ton of player, since the game will be completely broken at that point.
I don’t think you’ve identified any discrepancies between what happens for the Mesmer and what happens with other professions.
Simple is fact that not all mesmer builds rely on illusion for doing dmg but actually rely on the illusion being out and able to shatter. They way it worked before was if say someone evaded your illusion cast the dmg was negated but still had your illusion out(Which is way whole mesmer class was made to have illusion out for x number of abilities) So basically they just made it worse for use to realy on illusion shatter builds. It would be like someone casting blind on a necro and a minion would go poof on them. Or blind on a ranger and his pet went poof(if in a alternate reality and pets actually were useful in pvp)
It is outrageous.
The inability to summon illusions when it does not connect is quite possibly crippling to the class.
I wish I had never spent gold on my mesmer.
My “rare” geared mesmer used to hit iberzerker dependably for between 1800 and 2500. over the three ‘strikes over time’ produced by a single whirl.
It now hits for 600, and has only ONE ‘strike over time’
If I’m lucky I see a second and it reaches 1200… (that’s 20% of the time)
I get more dps by spamming one and forgetting about the zerker.