Guild Wars 2

How I feel about GW2 – I really, REALLY liked GW2 until FotM started crippling global participation in the rest of the game by compelling everyone who wanted a “complete toon” to play for the stupid gear. I will not quit just yet, despite that, as I want to see how bad the damage is when the full set of ascended gear is released. But, for now, I can say that my enthusiasm for this game has dropped grandly.

My gaming background – All kinds, on both console and pc. RPG’s include zelda, ffcc series, phantasy star series, wow, rift.(I came to this game specifically because I hated the treadmills on the latter half of this list, and ANet promised me this) FPS includes the mainstream greats. A few classic puzzle games like tetris, zoop, catrap.

The list has become large and cumbersome, and some questions in particular are redundant in each section.

I strongly suggest combining their only-slightly-variant intents into a single, unified question.

Jski.6180:

Cant ppl be doing it for both fun and items?

This game provided a means for people who wanted items for their prestige to get them.

Arah was/is a PITA.

People who wanted the “worship me” factor could farm and wear Arah skins.

Providing a difficulty curve WITHOUT a way to cheese it with stats *cough*agonyresist*cough* and associating a specific visual skin with each higher difficulty area provides this factor for people who want it.

There is no good reason at all to kill the rest of the game by associating the best loot in the game with the most cumbersome violation of the core tenet of “rewarding cooperation” in MMO history that is Fractals.

Fractals seem purposely designed to fragment the people who desire to run them. The different levels and the fact that item rewards increase as you traverse them means people are rewarded for leaving their fellow players behind.

Shackle people to Fractals by requiring you run them as the sole source for the game’s best gear, and you end up exacerbating this behavior, as you have people who don’t want to be there trying their best to “speed the process up” by only accepting people who can help carry them.

Horrorscope.7632:

Op that got to political for me on this forum even though it was pretty good…

I think there are two choices for the game. Have progressive stats or have tons of gear variations in terms of looks. Since one of GW’s things was horizontal vs vertical in stats, the game should have had 1000’s of variations in equipment look. That would be the carrot and yes you do need one for many playing a mmo. But a looks slanted view doesn’t imbalance the game but still adds nice re-playability for many. Looks also give an individual their unique look which I’ve found in many mmo’s players prefer. In GW2, it’s pretty basic, too basic.

Having neither is pretty darn boring, the game borders on being boring in these two areas. Even though there is progression, it’s not amazing and all about that. Even though there are different looks, there aren’t that many.

I counted at least 25 different, coherent armor sets for light armor alone, and ANet made commitments to expand upon those.

BTW: there are not much more than that in WoW for clothies (please don’t count re-colors of the same skin…).. and that’s a 10 year old game with 4 major expansions.

Casca Longinus.3168:

I didnt see anyone yelling when we ran AC or COF 50 times for gear. And the fractal gear still isnt as good as legendary stuff, so whats the big deal.

Because the people who ran AC 50 times were not running it becuase it was the ONLY source for the best gear. They also had other dungeons, crafting, world events, karma, various PVP and on and on.

People who ran those dungeons were there specifically for the armor skins and the actual pleasure of doing the dungeon. Because the desire for armor skins is entirely subjective, it usually ended up with people going to different dungeons.

Fractals are the ONLY source for this gear. It’s resulted in most people feeling their characters are “incomplete” stat-wise and compelled to do these monstrosities until they reach competitive par again for WvW. If the gear itself were spread equally across all game content, you’d have a LOT less gripe, and you’d probably see a lot less people in fractals because their gating design encourages elitist and exclusionary behavior, and the “agony” mechanic rewards stacking of an arbitrary resist over skilled play.

No other dungeon system that i’ve ever seen has resulted in 20 people standing in the same place searching for people for the exact same dungeon, but not going there with one another because the gating system was that byzantine.

As for the people arguing about being “competitive”…. Are you saying a full set of Arah exotic skins on your toon doesn’t say something about you? You can make yourself “elite” without ANet handing you a statistical advantage over WvW opponents or rewarding you in dungeons for simply stacking agony resist.

Correciton, FotM managed to not only kill GW2, it’s also slowly strangling ITSELF

The gating system is causing even those who absolutely adore FotM to turn on one another like members of the Donner party.

Veltoss.9135:

moirweyn.9872:

Veltoss.9135:

moirweyn.9872:

I hate the new gear because we weren’t supposed to have a vertical gear grind in this game. I hate the new dungeons because it has destroyed the dynamic events in the higher level areas completely. I am very disgusted with ANet for putting that crap in the game.

Good job ANexxSoft

Once again, the “grind” (which really isn’t much of a true grind at all) will disappear once they’ve added more ascended gear. The new dungeons will not be taking people away after a while once there are other ways to get ascended gear. People freaking out over a temporary problem for the sake of having something to kitten about.

You don’t get it and it won’t go back to normal.

The whole reason people are doing these new dungeons in lieu of the dynamic events in Orr is the new gear. We were never supposed to have a ‘gear grind’ in this game at all because it does exactly the things it is doing to the game now.

What don’t I “get”? They’re going to add more ascended gear and more ways to get it, they have said this. Temporarily, Fractals is the only way to get the current ascended gear. Temporarily, many people are doing Fractals rather than dynamic events. This is something that will be smoothed out with future patches as dynamic events are rebalanced and more ascended gear is added to the game.

But rather than be patient, people would rather freak the kitten out and act like the game is going to completely change forever. Let’s just make a huge jump to assumptions for the sake of having something to freak out about.

They should’t have added a mechanic that can only be overcome by gear. It encourages “gear-check elitism”, and even if they add it to other dungeons, it will just make them work in the same horrendous way fractals do, where 20 people can all be looking for the same one, but none will want (or be able) to play with one another due to the stupid level gating.

The entire fractal concept was a horrible idea, even if it were dropped into a traditional gear-grind game like WoW.

Whoever was responsible for it should be sent to another department unrelated to game design, or sent to the “salt mines” until they understand why what they did was so very wrong, especially in an MMO which is just starting to build a community.

Natural.7013:

Whiteside said they adding more fotm style dungeons. Something is showing them that they are successful?

No. Whiteside did not say this. He alluded to new content.

If he releases more fractal style dungeons he will sink this game like the titanic. Look how badly fractals are hurting the overall game experience and fracturing the community already.

NaughtyProwler.8653:

Well, I can get into any WvW zone instantly today which is odd for a Saturday, I went to the Lost Shores and ran into a total of 9 people, 1 doing the jumping puzzle and 7 farming karka and 1 person going for the same ori nodes I was. Everyone else is in LA spamming for FotM, but I’m level 1 so not much point in trying there lol! Is this what successful patch is? Brand new zones completely void of players, instant WvW queues and bored people spamming for groups? I laughed. I logged off, and unless they address the problems on Reddit this coming Monday, I make like a tree.

My thoughts exactly.

dalendria.3762:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Do I like Ascended gear, or Agony? Not particularly. Not at all, actualy – I think they were terrible ideas, but I also wish to remind people that it was a direct response to the ungodly huge pile of hue-and-cry a significant amount of the previous forum poster base (but not, as it turns out, the player base) for just exactly what they got - namely gear progression and the exact same sort of end-game grind that Warcraft has been skating on for years. People wanted it, desperately. So, ArenaNet trotted some of it out there to see what reception it got and ended up having to go get some burn cream. A lot of burn cream, from what I’ve heard. So glad I wasn’t around for that one…but the fact remains:

Lesson learned. No one else seems to remember this, but ArenaNet is very good at learning lessons. Give them time to learn those lessons. Come back in a year – the game has no subscription, you can totally do that. Take a break, do something else, and come back later. ArenaNet’ll let you, and the rest of us won’t stop you. It’ll get better. I promise.

The problem is that even if their internal data shows that introduction of Ascended/Fractals has hurt the core design of their game or lost them a moderate number of customers/cash shop revenue, it may too late to revert back. It is also too late to salvage what is left of their reputation and credibility.

Long after Ascended fades into the wind, people will remember that “Arenanet did not even believe in their own design philosophy. After a few months, they moved more towards a traditional approach to end game.”

Does not matter if it is true. It is the perception that is out there now. People seem to think that the discussion about them backing away is only happening on this forum. It is not. Gaming sites, bloggers and retail sites have gotten wind to this and are calling them out on it.

I had faith in Arenanet and believed that they fully supported their design vision. Also, really impressed with their Dev team despite the bugs. But now, I do not believe they have confidence in the product they originally launched.

A mistake is messing up a profession’s skills. This is a major marketing blunder since it speaks to an overhaul of what they originally sold and a retraction of Mike O’Brien’s, Arenanet President, statements about the approach he has used to make a “unique” MMO, different from all the rest depending on gear progression/raids/content gating.

If they revert the gating aspect, nerf the “extra stats” on Ascended gear and spread it across ALL content rather than just fractals, and come forward with a public apology, they can turn the negative press into a vindication of their trajectory.

If they don’t, it will be the end of their integrity as a company.

I’m hoping they do the right thing.

Natural.7013:

How is it a boatload? Because you don’t like it, so it’s crap. Vocal minority again.

You don’t even read the rest of my post. BTW, accusing the majority on this board of being a “vocal minority” sounds like the Romney camp before the election. We all know how well that went.

meanwhile everyone is miserable in an ever-emtpying set of servers (lion’s arch is where most people are, and overflows are becoming a thing of the past, that’s ominous that is your metric right there). People spam lion’s arch for HOURS before they’re able to find groups.

On one hand, I agree that people are running for the next tier. On the other hand, this style of dungeon is way more interesting then exotic dungeons, which a ten year old can zerg. Once again, if people’s actions show they will run these dungeons, then more will come. Forum posts decrying Anet mean nothing if metrics show that people will run these dungeons in mass numbers.

Only because it’s the ONLY way to “complete” your character. Or are you just afraid you won’t be able to be an elitist jerk and exclude “scrubs” if they leave FOTM in droves and go back to the rest of the game to grind their shinies?

To the point of concurrency, I think the more people are in game, the better game experience for everyone so why wouldn’t that be an important consideration. Also, more in game means more browsing, more often on the BLT with more chances to make a business transaction to support Anet’s business. If you truly want an fps log in log out here and there, then it becomes less of an mmorpg. Also, PS2 has that idea already cornered with MMOfps.

More people in lion’s arch will just mean more people in overflow, but people already have a game where they can stand in cities doing LFG and calling people who don’t have top raid gear scrubs – it’s over on blizzard’s website and even has fuzzy pandas.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Really?

I thought it was removing skill from the combat in the game.

This game was designed and launched around the idea that if you don’t actively dodge damage and remove conditions (e.g. you didn’t pay attention) you would be unable to progress very far, and if you were particularly reactive and did well at avoiding damage, you would be rewarded for your skill.

Not anymore. Agony is “unavoidable”, you can’t overcome it with skill no matter what, and you’re stuck stacking a boring resistance stat which allows you to “cheese” an encounter with “gear”.

That is the OPPOSITE of skill-based combat. I don’t want to see it anymore in this game, and I want the option to completely ignore FotM.

Are you sure about “unavoidable”? I had someone telling me that Agony is attached to certain boss attacks and thus can be dodged for the most part.

It was in the patch notes. Unavoidable and irremovable by any traditional means.

I know about the patch notes, I know about the interviews and blog posts. I also know I asked two people what was up with Agony and they let me know some things. Also:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13ecxn/information_about_agony_and_agony_resistance/

There’s that?

Agony and its associated resistance serves one function: Allowing you to “cheese” events with “gear”.

This is the opposite of skill-based play.

Well, no. Right now you get only a limited amount of Agony Resistance. So while it won’t kill you, it will still mess you up. Again, from someone I chatted with while I was waiting in Lion’s Arch. Point is you still don’t want to get hit. Sure, you can survive a hit . . . but you would be better off not hit at all.

The gameplay rewards skill, just as much as if the Agony Resistance wasn’t there. Maybe even more so, because you’d not be hit rather than surviving it. And as we all know, 0 damage is better than any amount. Especially if other effects get stacked on with Agony.

The presence of this stat in “infusions” and the fact that all pieces of gear will have it will mean anyone who is not stacking agony resist will be told to GTFO and DIAF.

The only way agony promotes skill based combat over gear based combat is if they ditch the idea of agony resist and tune it as simply a condition that punishes people for failing to avoid attacks.

riddleguy.9738:

While many people are unhappy with the lost shores update and ascended gear. For now at least, I have faith in arenanet and believe that future updates will be better!

I personally think arenanet simply made a mistake….no person is perfect and neither is no company. I don’t see ascended gear going away but i believe they will make obtaining it easier and think very carefully before adding a new type of gear in the future.I see nothing wrong with adding a new type of gear as long as its done right. For ascended gear, i think they did a poor job of implementing it.

I also believe future events will be better. I think while the halloween event was great…the lost shores was lackluster in comparision.

Do any of you guys still have faith in arenanet and believe they make up for their mistake like i do?

I am waiting to see what the open QA answers are like on monday.

—If I see plans to continue putting more “agony” in this game at the expense of skill…

—If I see no plans to encourage people to leave fractals and to stop splintering our playerbase…
—If I see any plans for another tier beyond Ascended…

I will leave this game, never buy from ANet again, and more importantly forsake mmo’s all together.

Edited by moderator: no capital writting please

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Absconditus.6804:

I at least, think it was a good idea to add the Ascended tier of equipment. It introduces an interesting mechanic with resistances that can be used in multiple parts of the game.

Really?

I thought it was removing skill from the combat in the game.

This game was designed and launched around the idea that if you don’t actively dodge damage and remove conditions (e.g. you didn’t pay attention) you would be unable to progress very far, and if you were particularly reactive and did well at avoiding damage, you would be rewarded for your skill.

Not anymore. Agony is “unavoidable”, you can’t overcome it with skill no matter what, and you’re stuck stacking a boring resistance stat which allows you to “cheese” an encounter with “gear”.

That is the OPPOSITE of skill-based combat. I don’t want to see it anymore in this game, and I want the option to completely ignore FotM.

Are you sure about “unavoidable”? I had someone telling me that Agony is attached to certain boss attacks and thus can be dodged for the most part.

It was in the patch notes. Unavoidable and irremovable by any traditional means.

I know about the patch notes, I know about the interviews and blog posts. I also know I asked two people what was up with Agony and they let me know some things. Also:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13ecxn/information_about_agony_and_agony_resistance/

There’s that?

Agony and its associated resistance serves one function: Allowing you to “cheese” events with “gear”.

No more need to “dodge attacks”, just stand there and “agony resist tank it”, maybe we can even get an elementalist to “heal” the remaining damage. Sounds great, doesn’t it?

This is the opposite of skill-based play.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Absconditus.6804:

I at least, think it was a good idea to add the Ascended tier of equipment. It introduces an interesting mechanic with resistances that can be used in multiple parts of the game.

Really?

I thought it was removing skill from the combat in the game.

This game was designed and launched around the idea that if you don’t actively dodge damage and remove conditions (e.g. you didn’t pay attention) you would be unable to progress very far, and if you were particularly reactive and did well at avoiding damage, you would be rewarded for your skill.

Not anymore. Agony is “unavoidable”, you can’t overcome it with skill no matter what, and you’re stuck stacking a boring resistance stat which allows you to “cheese” an encounter with “gear”.

That is the OPPOSITE of skill-based combat. I don’t want to see it anymore in this game, and I want the option to completely ignore FotM.

Are you sure about “unavoidable”? I had someone telling me that Agony is attached to certain boss attacks and thus can be dodged for the most part.

It was in the patch notes. Unavoidable and irremovable by any traditional means.

Either way, agony resist’s fundamental function is to allow you to ignore a mechanic in the game rather than deal with it actively. It removes skill from combat and replaces it with the same gear-cheesing i’ve been running from for 10 years.

Absconditus.6804:

I at least, think it was a good idea to add the Ascended tier of equipment. It introduces an interesting mechanic with resistances that can be used in multiple parts of the game.

Really?

I thought it was removing skill from the combat in the game.

This game was designed and launched around the idea that if you don’t actively dodge damage and remove conditions (e.g. you didn’t pay attention) you would be unable to progress very far, and if you were particularly reactive and did well at avoiding damage, you would be rewarded for your skill.

Not anymore. Agony is “unavoidable”, you can’t overcome it with skill no matter what, and you’re stuck stacking a boring resistance stat which allows you to “cheese” an encounter with “gear”.

That is the OPPOSITE of skill-based combat. I don’t want to see it anymore in this game, and I want the option to completely ignore FotM.

Natural.7013:

With all the vocal minority inundating the forums, it was no surprise that Whiteside coined the Fotm, event and new content a success. These forums were slammed with the same few thousand people complaining about the new gear and dungeon. Yet, the proof will be in the pudding in the end. MMO companies use metrics to help determine direction and a great many things about how they will move forward in their game.

Sure, they listen to feedback, but they also put alot of stock into the actions of players. If they see a good turnout in the dungeons on a daily basis, keep concurrency consistent and people wearing the new items by the hundreds of thousands, then it is definitely a success.

People that claim the forum spam is the majority could in fact really be in the minority by a large margin. We will never really know since MMO companies usually don’t reveal the metrics/data they keep.

Personally, I think they saw a huge population in exotic gear at 80 with little to do and average concurrency going south. The game is ultra simplistic and caters to casuals more than most MMOs. Your not in your GW1 Tyria anymore either. If this is to be a true mmorpg, then they are likely watching their metrics on a weekly basis and holding meetings to debrief the data…that data must show people were in need of Ascended gear and dungeons worth doing and reasons to log in.

This is a boatload of crap and you know it.

Let’s move the Ascended gear to all the known sources for exotics and see if FotM has more than a tiny fraction of the playerbase.

When FOTM ceases to be the ONLY source for the best gear in the game, THEN we can start to get true metrics on it.

As it stands now, all FOTM is doing is killing the rest of the game and encouraging incredibly bad behavior as it fragments the community.

1) 0
After getting full exotic was planning to focus on changing my build and weapon set. And as far as what to do, I had plenty from WvW, guild nights, redoing my favorite dynamic events and leveling my alts.
2) NEGATIVE 10
The introduction of FRACTALS and the related gating, and making it the ONLY source of the best gear in the game has encouraged and resulted in a large portion of the playerbase standing around lion’s arch for hours on end acting like insufferable kittens. “LFM FotM, must be level XX, link exotics or be kicked, be 80 or be kicked” While the rest of tyria is swallowed alive by invading dynamic events which go unopposed, and the dungeons that DO require skill instead of simply agony resist go unplayed.
3)0
Never bothered me because Arenanet said that they intentionally built their game that way. I read the marketing materials and interviews. I knew why they did it. And I was happy with having a gear stat cap.
4) 0
5) New traits, new skills, new dynamic/group events throughout all the zones, new gear based on looks differences only, fixing of the bugs blocking access to DEs and other content, new types of SPVP, fixing known issues in WvW, adding more tools for guilds, introduction of Guild vs Guild battles. I have a long list and none of it has anything to do with raids or new gear with better stats.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

plasmacutter.2709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Rezzet.3614:

i dont see what the problem is the gear-threadmill is not a problem in this game because you are NOT being charged 20$ monthly and being forced to play and its not like the new gear triples in power compared to the current gear the diferences are minimal, but yeah what the hell is rong with new things in game over time if we are NOT being charged at all for them.

It’s not “wrong” . . . not in a fundamental way, taken on its own.

The problem comes in when you start taking the one fact “It’s okay to add new things to the game” and people don’t like that new thing. Now you have a problem, partly in the fact you added something which was unpopular with some people and partly in the fact there’s players who are not happy with you now.

How do you solve it? Well if it was that simple, you just take it back out, say “oops” and go on with your work.

Now, the problem compounds when part of the players don’t want you to remove it. Who cares what the reason is, the crucial part is there are at least two groups in opposition over the simple “we added this”.

How do you solve this problem?

It gets better, though. Say now that when you added this you firmly thought “this will be cool” and your idea wasn’t received well. (This is also a gross understatement).

How do you solve it now?

Edit: Hint – You’re not going to make everyone happy in the last two options. It’s just not happening. We’re now back to square one – you have a problem

The best middle-ground response is to spread Ascended gear as far and wide as exotics were at the launch of the game. This removes the general feeling that you MUST run (explative-deleted)-hard fractals just to get meaningful rewards for your max-level toon, and will thus stop the bleeding and start the healing on the heavily-impacted “other parts” of the game.

You can even toss out new armor models for each Ascended set on the existing explorer mode dungeons.

Do I dislike the fact they’re introducing a vertical gear-grind? YES. BUT the much more pressing and important factor is that tying this Ascended gear to only one aspect of the game has bled the others dry. Further, pushing people who are after shinies into the most difficult aspect of the game has encouraged exclusionary behavior in an effort to seek “easier means” as well as outright elitist trolling.

Indeed, and it’s why I keep saying I think their biggest misstep was rushing this part out and letting the rest languish But even so, I think this big outcry will have tainted it all by the time it finally gets sent out into the world. (I’m wagering next week.)

It’s already soured my view on the game, but I can endure IF they manage to lure people back out of fractals and into the existing content again.

I want to avoid fractals as agony is not based in skill, and learned from years in games like WoW and Rift that gear progression means absolutely zip and is a futile endeavor.

If I see the gear issue is denying me loot due to “dps competition” against event mobs, I may rethink this, but as of right now ANet still has a chance to salvage this.

I have been VERY vocal in my criticisms here, but have not gone as far as to broadcast to friends or anyone outside this forum to “stay away” just yet.

The new Ascended gear aside, the much more pressing and important factor is that tying this Ascended gear to only one aspect of the game has bled the others dry.

Further, pushing people who are after shinies into the most difficult aspect of the game has encouraged exclusionary behavior in an effort to seek “easier means” as well as outright elitist trolling.

THIS is the biggest issue with the last patch, not the stats (Not that I don’t think the stats are ALSO a problem, just not NEARLY as big of a problem as this!)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Rezzet.3614:

i dont see what the problem is the gear-threadmill is not a problem in this game because you are NOT being charged 20$ monthly and being forced to play and its not like the new gear triples in power compared to the current gear the diferences are minimal, but yeah what the hell is rong with new things in game over time if we are NOT being charged at all for them.

It’s not “wrong” . . . not in a fundamental way, taken on its own.

The problem comes in when you start taking the one fact “It’s okay to add new things to the game” and people don’t like that new thing. Now you have a problem, partly in the fact you added something which was unpopular with some people and partly in the fact there’s players who are not happy with you now.

How do you solve it? Well if it was that simple, you just take it back out, say “oops” and go on with your work.

Now, the problem compounds when part of the players don’t want you to remove it. Who cares what the reason is, the crucial part is there are at least two groups in opposition over the simple “we added this”.

How do you solve this problem?

It gets better, though. Say now that when you added this you firmly thought “this will be cool” and your idea wasn’t received well. (This is also a gross understatement).

How do you solve it now?

Edit: Hint – You’re not going to make everyone happy in the last two options. It’s just not happening. We’re now back to square one – you have a problem

The best middle-ground response is to spread Ascended gear as far and wide as exotics were at the launch of the game. This removes the general feeling that you MUST run (explative-deleted)-hard fractals just to get meaningful rewards for your max-level toon, and will thus stop the bleeding and start the healing on the heavily-impacted “other parts” of the game.

You can even toss out new armor models for each Ascended set on the existing explorer mode dungeons.

Do I dislike the fact they’re introducing a vertical gear-grind? YES. BUT the much more pressing and important factor is that tying this Ascended gear to only one aspect of the game has bled the others dry. Further, pushing people who are after shinies into the most difficult aspect of the game has encouraged exclusionary behavior in an effort to seek “easier means” as well as outright elitist trolling.

Vorch.2985:

Looria.8019:

So skill based game not so much anymore…gear based game. What a joke…

I still say that 98% of this game is skill based.

But why they added this stupid gear-based gating mechanic with such a high cost and barrier to entry…in a game with GUILD WARS on it, no less….is beyond me.

Quite frankly, I choose to ignore the higher level fractals. I’m not paying out the mouth to get gear to protect me from ONE CONDITION. Hell no.

Just ignoring the parts of this last patch that I don’t like.

The problem is the other areas of the game are “withering on the vine” because the original philosophy of “play how you like and get rewards” is being negated due to fractals being the ONLY source of their new gear.

I can personally ignore it if they’re introducing new tiers and continue at my own pace, but if there’s nobody to play with, I may as well get more compelling titles for console and not have to worry about server disconnection or some kittenamamy patch encouraging everyone to be raging elitist kittens.

I think people are conflating two issues which are equally egregious, but utterly mortal threats to the community as a one-two combo.

The first and foremost is actually the gated and challenging structure of the FotM dungeons, and the fact that they are the ONLY source for ascended gear.
If you want to progress, you MUST do this, and if you want to do this, you MUST keep up with the joneses, or you will be excluded because you’re not “level XX”.

It encourages exclusionary behavior and splinters the community.

Distributing Ascended gear in the same manner as exotics would drastically help the game in general and re-populate the original spheres of the game which are as-we-speak being sucked of their last drops of life by FotM-treadmills.

The second is the presence of Ascended gear and what it means in comparison to the manifesto released by Anet PR. The lead designers state categorically it will be the only one. I don’t believe them, but I’d still be much less peeved if they simply re-designed FotM and distributed their new sell-out “gear progression” tiers to all sources the same way exotics were so I’d actually have people to play with in an mmo

Best option:
Remove ascended gear and the lazy agony mechanic, then encounter designers can DO THEIR JOBS by making the challenge more difficult through more advanced AI, both individually and through attack coordination, introducing more punishment for mistakes, and other items like this.

Second-best option:
Provide full-on ascended sets to ALL aspects of gameplay (world events, dungeon vendors, karma vendors) ASAP.

fractals are fine as “the ultimate challenge mode”, but when you make it the only source of the best gear in the game, you breed elitism and you make a large part of the community feel compelled to “complete” their character by going into these things when they otherwise would not be interested in doing something that (explative deleted) hard.

This results in people taking the lazy way out and excluding the community: “LFM FotM, please be minimum level XX, and if you can’t link all exotics you will be kicked”

Or better, people calling other people scrubs because they don’t have Ascended or are not arbitrary level XX

Avatar.1923:

yeah, fractals screwed it up….

players are afraid to step out of the fractal hamster wheel because they might not find a group later on.
they should have done a grind that actually takes you to different dungeons/part of the world.

anyway, there is also the ultimate grinders, D3 style players, that account for a lot of the playerbase; an no matter what it is, they will repeat the same content over and over IF this is the most rewarding content.

sad, really.
thats a problem with mmos, until somebody come up with a better design.

ANet came up with that better design. It resulted in a vibrant and cohesive community. Then they released fractals and Ascended gear and now you have “LFM FotM – level XX, people below this level need not apply, link exotics or be kicked” .
It’s like they’re INTENTIONALLY trying to sink their game. I’m waiting for monday, and if I don’t like what I read i’m so far gone I won’t even bother returning to MMOs.

I won’t lie and say the ascended gear is “ok” with me, but the much MUCH bigger issue that’s killing the community is the fact that it’s not available from ‘whatever gameplay you choose’ per the manifesto, and that the ONE way it is available is so heavily gated even people who choose to do ONLY THAT end up in “have and have-not” camps.

Making a heavily gated, increasingly difficult “challenge mode” the only source for “shinies” has drawn in people who are after loot and only loot but are not necessarily up for challenges, and has encouraged the most horrendous thing you can see in any chat: “LFM FotM – people below level XX need not apply, link exotics or be kicked”

That’s what i liked about explore modes before — by making their gear rewards no better than other sources, I was able to find great dungeon groups and do them for the sake of the encounters and challenge… what a concept! Not anymore, everything is empty, because the only way to “progress” is to do FotM….

btw.. i think it’s rather ironic, because if FotM is not radically changed soon, this whole title will be “FOTM” and then forgotten. People who want shinies will just go to the next game.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Columba.9730:

plasmacutter.2709:

a 20% increase is still a massive one.

They say they will continue to release new pieces.

This means a complete set with 20% more effectiveness WILL be part of this game if they are not convinced otherwise.

20% more effective stat is essentially a whole new 20 trait points invested in whatever line you choose.

that is HUGE. It is not at all insignificant.

Agreed, don’t listen to the pro-grind propaganda. The new gear, as shown by the posts here are 20-50% higher on the ascended gear. Don’t be fooled by the pro-grind crowd.

The gear is 20-50% higher, perhaps. The overall affect on the stat pool however.

My Ranger has 1846 power currently. He gains +30 upgrading to the Vine of the Pale Tree should he get it .The total stat increase is 1.625135428% when carried to 10 significant digits.

. . . please, explain more how the stats are 20% more effective, higher, or whatever.

I’m sorry, I can’t hear you over the sound of everyone telling me to go DIAF because i’m not “FotM lvl 30… err.. 40… err.. 50.. err.. 60.. err.. what is the new arbitrary ‘infusion requirement’, etc for me to actually PLAY THIS GAME WITH EVERYONE ELSE LIKE ANET ADVERTISED?”

When blizzard pulled something like this it was a deliberate joke for april fools!

Koroz.5294:

it’s simple why I stopped playing so much. I was sold a game I didn’t get.

I am used to it though, no whining, I just thought Anet was different. They aren’t, I don’t mind I don’t have to pay monthly anyway so I log in if I am super super super bored, but now, with most everyone on my server dropping out of wv3 / pvp to do fractals which negates the whole reason I chose to play GW2, which was for the pvp going out to empty borderlands by myself isn’t really “fun”. Before fractals, 4 groups in pvp, after fractals, maybe 1. After seeing the world promised with the class patch and being delivered nothing in real substance I see the writing on the wall already.

/shrug I am sure pve’rs will love it, just not my cup of tea.

I’m a pve-er in mmos for 10 years, and I can say quite clearly that I don’t like this one bit.

The gating and gear grind nurtures the worst aspects of MMO elitism, and goes diametrically against the intended inclusive nature of this game.

lordkrall.7241:

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Becasue a couple guys wrote “amazing i love it” that makes you think this is the majority of the community?

No, but the fact that NO ONE complained about it, I would say it is quite safe to assume most people don’t have anything against it, or at least can live with it.

Yes, the 2000+ post thread, and the threads that keep sprouting up, and the guilds that have emptied, and the world that has emptied, and the realms where everyone is in lion’s arch spamming for FotM but there is no overflow, and the MMO blogging community shouting “traitor” and “burn baby burn” really indicate the majority of players wanted this… as opposed to hundreds who took to the forums while the majority just logged out for good in disgust.

The game is in the process of being vacated and left to the “we want more wow” locusts for its final consumption. It’s still reversible right now, if ArenaNet acts quickly.

Groovy.6749:

So you’re argument is that if you aren’t interested in doing fractals then you’re handicapped for the rest of the game and therefore “locked out” of experiencing content ?

In the case of group content, yes. Many zones are covered in group events that cannot be soloed and that nobody participates in any longer. Further, if any of these fractal denizes shows up to assist, if you don’t have the gear you get less credit for equal effort.

So far the only content that requires doing fractals…is fractals.

no, sorry, no cigar. The “new normal” for gear means fractal gear becomes a requirement if you want your cut of the credit and rewards.

I am not saying that you are wrong…or right. Neither of us know at this point in time. If you happen to be right, then I would agree with you to the extent that ascended would be some sort of minor gear grind.

Ascended should not exist, period. They can easily implement new, more difficult dungeons and tiers of explorable paths and balance them around NOT requiring new levels of gear, thus NOT giving people advantages unfairly and rewarding no-lifers for excluding the rest of the community.

But to me who’s played the game pretty much since release the mat grind isn’t really a grind as I was swimming in ectos,etc…

Don’t care about the mat grind. Ascended should not exist to cause it though.

Also your argument is kinda flawed. It is YOUR decision not to play fractals and to be handicapped by it. Itis hardly a raid, operations or challenge of any kind. You can play the first 10 levels quite easily without any ascended gear.

I don’t want to play fractals period, and according to ArenaNet’s repeated refrains, I should not be forced into an aspect of the game I don’t like.

It is the same as if another player said that he had no interest in running dungeons or farming exotics…so when eventually he is at an handicap when finally running a dungeon because he’s only in blue and greens that was HIS decision. Should I be sanctioned because I bothered to go all the way especially when it is so easy ?

Except it’s not that way at all. A person can easily get exotics through karma, world events, the trading post, or pvp if they don’t like dungeons. A person CANNOT get Ascended through world events, et. al. if they don’t like fractals.

Maybe our definition of gear treadmill and grind differ, but to me its only grind if it’s too long/hard to get and only a treadmill if I truly never have a chance to catch up and the only form of content “upgrade” the game has to offer.

It’s a grind if you are forced to participate in something you want nothing to do with in order to retain relevance in the areas in which you do want to participate. Other non-grind negative effects of fractals include the rewards for people for excluding others and the fact that its the only source of Ascended, which means everything else becomes EMPTY.

One tiny portion of a new tier does not justify this type of reaction. At least not until we see the final product. Since we do not pay monthly, how is being patient an inconvenience to anyone here ?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451
Read it, it’s both a FULL set of ascended, and a newly buffed FULL set of legendaries. That is a “gear treadmill” as much as he wants to disavow it.

Also to be patronizing I would have to be mocking a genuine, thought-out opinion…right now this all thing feels more like a knee-jerk reaction. So yes, some people on both sides of the argument are acting a bit childish.

It is not a knee-jerk reaction. They have directly violated their communicated intent for the past several years, their promise to the community, and have outlined a gear treadmill which will take over a year to complete in its currently planned state. I see no overreaction here. If anything, I see civility. The rest of the MMO media are not so kind as the people in this thread. They’re out there chanting “traitor” and “burn baby burn”.

I’d prefer they actually fix their mess. The game has so much potential if they reverse this disastrous course.

xero.2097:

Alright, first off, just because you say you are on the internet does not make it so, theres a good reason why you NEVER claim to be a professional in a field to try and validate your arguement by claiming to be an authority, because it ultimately is something you could realistically not prove without making yourself explicitly vulnerable, as I’m certain a man/woman of your expertise would know. That being said I already outlined the cost cutting measures that would have to take place to reduce overhead, which as such would result in less bandwidth usage. In simple terms, you’d reduce the overall pipe of information flowing into servers WHEN you consolidate them.

Again with the attacks,

The delcaration that someone who works for a living will not shell out for the cash shop. The majority of people whom work for a living will not have time to get use out of the money they would spend on a fantasy world…to quote yourself “time is money” cuts both ways, you don’t spend money on something you will not have the time to enjoy. To further my point the player who is playing on limited time WILL acquire money through the simple act of playing, which he/she will then use that gold to augment his/her playing experience be that through gear purchase or coverting to gems.

You really need to calm down.

The logic is simple….why would I buy something I’ll hardly use?

Tell that to ralph lauren and his car collection.

And you keep right on just declaring things as if you are imbued with divine powers, the cynically trying to pawn off the idea that i’m “arguing from authority”?

I can see why other people ignore you in your supreme intellectual dishonesty.

Groovy.6749:

Ascended gear/agony is part of the lore.
Farming ectos and powerful blood isn’t that hard after being lvl80 for a while.
GW2’s ending is all about farming mats to get new skins.

So to me it sounds like you’ll still be grinding for mats as you were before Lost Shores, except that this time there is new gear that still fits in with the lore.

Anet said they would release legendary armors and more legendary weapons eventualy. As long as legendary remains the top tier, there is no real reason to worry about anything.

Are you guys going to over-react as well when they release an expansion pack and the level cap is most likely increased ?

If you are a fan of GW2, farming mats shouldn’t be a problem for you. If you don’t understand why you should farm AKA grind mats, then chances are you aren’t even lvl80 yet and then why should your feedback matter on endgame issues since you don’t have a clue ?

Being worried doesn’t give you “carte blanche” to act-up as a child would. If you actually happen to be a child, then maybe your parents should not let you vent on forums too much…

No promises were broken. Gear progression was always coming to GW2, they just haven’t implemented it yet. There is a big difference between adding a tier that makes sense and continously moving the goal. Let them do their job first, then you can have an informed opinion which you would be more than welcome to share.
But nobody wants to hear a child kicking and screaming. That isn’t an opinion, it’s a tantrum.

Please don’t pantronize us with the “parent” act.

They promised us a game which would be inclusive, not penalize people for avoiding aspects of the game they did not like, not encourage people to exclude others or act selfishly, and not give superior rewards for one aspect of the game, thus baiting people by human nature to abandon the rest of it. Above all, they promised a game where skill mattered.

This change has done that.

The agony mechanic and the related implementation of the dungeon tiering system has resulted in extreme levels of exclusion and elitism. The description of the mechanic reads like a slow-motion slap-in-the-face to those who were looking for skill-based play “no matter how good you are, you will never avoid this mechanic, it’s literally there just to pad numbers against your favor”

If you don’t do fractals, those who do get an unfair advantage over you in the rest of the game.

Thus, everyone is compelled into fractals, and the rest of the world is emptying, thus those who don’t do fractals also lose the chance to do non-fractal dungeons and in many cases group world events.. the ones Anet had spent years in beta developing.

At the same time Lion’s arch has gone from a peaceful, cooperative place to the same squabbling previously seen in stormwind or orgrimmar trade chat! (“LFM FotM, must be level 10, have x ‘gearscore’” … “Yur ascended lvl 2, DIAF bad”… W..T..F)

ArenaNet has categorically welched on its repeatedly emphasized principles with this patch. Its core test group said it, and we’ve been saying it, and if they dont listen, they will lose their loyal crowd for good, then 6 months later, everyone who wanted their precious treadmill will move to the next hot MMO, or back to WoW, and leave their game, which did had does have so much potential, as a desiccated husk.

xero.2097:

plasmacutter.2709:

xero.2097:

“It’s also fine for ANet though if they only log on 1 week a year. This lowers infrastructure and services costs for ANet proportionally.”

No, its not, many of the cash shop rewards will most likely be used by long term players for more then those whom long on for 1 week out of the year

Time and money are like supply and demand. They are inversely related, with the exception of trust fund kids. For the remainder of us, the more time you have the less money you will have to spend on the cash shop. The “dedicated players” will go out and farm for in-game money and never spend a dime in the cash shop. It’s the people who have little time and plenty of money who do this… these are the same client base who signed on because they were promised by ANet that the no-life basment-dwellers would not be given any grounds to arbitrarily exclude them for daring to have a life.

the cost to maintain the servers exsists regardless of how many players are actually on it. The fact the server itself exsists is what generates the majority of the cost, not that X number of people are on it, its the way bandwidth deals are set up for companies such as this. Infrastructure costs only go down if they cut they, ergo the game itself actually shrinks and servers get merged.

How about you spew this outright lie to someone who DOESN’t work in highly-available hosting for fortune 500 firms.

To save embaressing yourself by the fact you felt the urge to pull your “I’m an authority” rabbit out of the hat in addition to a personal attack.

So to be fair I’ll just point out that last I was aware server hosts as still about keeping operating costs low. Your statement above makes me find your credentials highly suspect.

I also wanted to hit upon your first point….why do you think someone who is only going to play the game for 1 week of the year is going to buy vanity items? Or magic find boosters? Do you believe he is going to try and craft a legendary for 1 week out of the year? The cash shop will most likely be used by the most devote of long term players whom consider GW 2 their long term entertainment expenditure, those whom do not will question the expense and will probaly use the gold/gem conversion instead, given their disposable income will most likely be used on a longer term entertainment medium

As opposed to your implicit one in your broad, otherwise-unfounded proclamations? Mine, in fact, happens to be true. I work day in and day out with dedicated datacenter, networking, and client staff. I know for a fact that networking bandwidth does matter, as does server stress, load balancer stress, and connection pooling.

Another baseless declaration that someone who works for a living will not shell out for the cash shop? You then back up your assertion by stating that someone who doesn’t have a great deal of time to play will convert gold to gems? What gold? they don’t have time to farm! Where is the logic?

Vlaxitov.5693:

Vakirauta.6397:

cegorach.5624:

zargnath.9524:

IRL I would actualy say work hard to get rewarded. But the problem is I play this game for fun. I have already payed 60$ to have fun and I would prefer not having to grind to have fun when it would be possible to create an option that wouldn’t force me to grind before having fun.

So you would have a problem in real life about an option that would allow you to be rewarded without working hard?

I am curious why you think an online game should have easy access to fun while real life shouldn’t.

Because it’s an online game.

…and theres the fallacy that Candyland or Chutes & Ladders can be just as fun as Monopoly or Risk.

easy =/= fun

Exactly, which is why I hate the idea of gear treadmill. It encourages lazy playstyles in which people overgear encounters in order to overcome them rather than utilize their skill.

I do not see how gear progression has taken that away from anyone

In a game where your ability to deal damage before a mob dies determines your rewards in dynamic events, and where your gear level matters in WvW, it takes away fun from the rest of us.

Inserting vertical progression into a game designed around horizontal progression results in a strange relativistic transformation. They don’t get ahead, YOU get behind. It shows in lower medal rankings in dynamic events, fewer loots, lower magic find rates, and economic disadvantage when it comes time to hit the trading post.

xero.2097:

“It’s also fine for ANet though if they only log on 1 week a year. This lowers infrastructure and services costs for ANet proportionally.”

No, its not, many of the cash shop rewards will most likely be used by long term players for more then those whom long on for 1 week out of the year

Time and money are like supply and demand. They are inversely related, with the exception of trust fund kids. For the remainder of us, the more time you have the less money you will have to spend on the cash shop. The “dedicated players” will go out and farm for in-game money and never spend a dime in the cash shop. It’s the people who have little time and plenty of money who do this… these are the same client base who signed on because they were promised by ANet that the no-life basment-dwellers would not be given any grounds to arbitrarily exclude them for daring to have a life.

the cost to maintain the servers exsists regardless of how many players are actually on it. The fact the server itself exsists is what generates the majority of the cost, not that X number of people are on it, its the way bandwidth deals are set up for companies such as this. Infrastructure costs only go down if they cut they, ergo the game itself actually shrinks and servers get merged.

How about you spew this outright lie to someone who DOESN’t work in highly-available hosting for fortune 500 firms.

Stormcycle.4208:

I don’t think its the end of the world at all if they make gear progression in this game, gear progression is in EVERY game, what makes it so bad for GW2 to have it?

I don’t know. My favorite games to play at the moment are GW2, Planetside 2 and MWO. Those three are more than enough to keep me busy until next year when Arma 3, DayZ standalone and Elder Scrolls Online come out.

As long as Anet makes good on all their ideas and promises so far, GW2 will remain the best MMO on the market right now.

The reason it’s the “best” right now is because its a SKILL BASED GAME.

The introduction of a gear grind removes that skill-based nature from the game by trivializing content and handing out unfair advantage in WvW to people who engage in one type of content (the GRINDY, backbiting, exclusionary, elitist type).

So yes, it is a very big deal. What is the point of even having dodge if they intend you to “grind-out-gear” for events and pvp?

Valtameri.2075:

Avatar.1923:

i still like the game, and please, make the dungeon story mode soloable because nobody does them anymore (its near impossible to find 5 people at once…).

This i agree, near impossible to get storymode going, everyone wants to do fotm or exp modes.

Not me.. I routinely hit story modes on my mesmer.. until they nerfed her to the ground AND broke their promise to me and everyone else introducing a system that rewards people for excluding others in the form of fractals. The holiday schedule doesn’t help either.

Now I log on much less frequently, and IF I even take the game seriously again I will be leveling a dual dagger ele. If the mesmer was a guide for time, it will be another 2 months before I’m viable to help ANYONE in their story modes.

munkiman.3068:

I enjoy the dungeon, as do many people, which is why there are rather large complaints about them pulling so many people there, i don’t consider content i enjoy doing, grindy.

If the reason the zones are emptying is people enjoy doing them so much, then why do we need ascended gear to lure them there?

How about you put your money where your mouth is and join those of us who campaign against it.

Heck.. i’ll put up 100 bucks in real, hard cash that if:
1 – the stat bonuses on ascended gear are removed such that its only equivalent to exotics
2 – the same ascended gear is made available for karma and tokens from other dungeons
or
3 – the ascended gear is removed

Heck.. i’ll put up 100 bucks in real, hard cash that if:
1 – the stat bonuses on ascended gear are removed such that its only equivalent to exotics
2 – the same ascended gear is made available for karma and tokens from other dungeons
or
3 – the ascended gear is removedthen these horrible FotM’s will empty as if they were … “FOTM”

If by “excited” he means “filled with murderous rage at being baited and switched into purchasing a wow clone” then yes, i’m “excited”.

Galen Grey.4709:

Fuz.5621:

Galen Grey.4709:

And thats exactly the problem! people measuring Gw2 like any other MMO even though its not!

It is now.

No its not! I dont have any ascended armor, actually I dont even have a full set of exotics yet and thats gating what content for me exactly?

If I get a full ascended set does that mean I can no longer play say in queensdale because that content become absolete due to power creep? hmm nope still works.

Does it now require more time to reach max level? nope still one of the fastest MMO in which you reach Max Level

Are dynamic events no longer immersive story telling quests? nope they remain unchanged.

Is exploration no longer rewarding? well that didnt change either

Without a full set of ascended armor will I get destroyed in sPvP like it would happen in other MMOs? hmmm nope still everyone has the exact same armor in sPvP

Without a full set of ascended armor will I get destroyed in WvW? well I dont have a full set of exotics infact only 33% of my armor set is exotic the rest is rare yet my kill ratio in WvW is probably around 5:1 (as in I killed 5 people for every time I died)

so no, this change didnt change suddenly gw2 to become like any other MMO. 1 new tier alone doesnt create a gear grind and its entirely optional unless you want to take up FoTM seriously. Its mostly people perception that change! not saying it was a good change I dont agree with it either, I too believe ascended armor could be okey but should have had the same base stats as exotic armor but it changed nothing from what I love of this game! they simply added something I dont like nothing else!

I see, so people are NOT.. I reapeat.. NOT complaining about being in lions arch overflows.

They are NOT.. I repeat NOT complaining about progressively empty world zones where half the waypoints are perma-contested because the critical mass of players needed to defeat the world events is no longer there.

They are NOT.. I repeat NOT unable to get groups for the pre-15th-patch content such as explorables since the fractals have come out.

They are NOT.. I repeat NOT complaining about being told to bugger off and die because they’re not ascended level 10.

and that a 20% increase in stats, when applied to ALL gear rather than just two pieces as they are now will NOT.. i repeat NOT provide 20 trait points worth of boost which will effectively reduce the ability of people in non-ascended gear to get loot whenever you are present.

I’m starting to see shades of karl rove on fox news on 11/6/2012 as I ask you “is this just math you do to make yourself feel better?”

Veltoss.9135:

Buzzcrave.6197:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

It may be one gear now, but when all the QQers get those Ascended, they will complain more. What will Anet do then? Add another tier of item. This is how gear-treadmill happens. kitten like this happened alot of time on others mmo, and Im afraid it will happen on GW2 as well.

So you guys think it’s a good idea to make >huge< assumptions and complain non-stop about something that has not yet happened and may never happen? How is this helping anyone? How is this beneficial?

what “huge assumption?”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

That’s the director of ANet’s game design saying there will be legendaries in every slot…. yet another “tier”.

he bad call in my opinion was probably thinking that players like me who dont care about that sort of thing would simply ignore ascended armor cause we dont really need it…

That’s not true, actually. This game scores you on dynamic events and chance to get loot from a mob by your share of damage done. If you don’t have ascended gear they just nerfed your ability to receive rewards for your participation in the game by giving others an unfair advantage.

Mackdose.6504:

Venn.8931:

Take a bow, Logun. You’ve encompassed the collective emotion of those that have been burned by this.

We should remember, however, that the pain we feel can only be a fraction of what the developers that are still on the team must feel. They gave birth and nourished this game to young adulthood only to be forced to take that twinkle-eyed creation, with a life full of promise, and hold it by the wrists while forcefully penetrating its innocence away. Inducing tears and blood, all while looking in their game’s glassy, hollow, water-filled eyes, day after violating day.

A kitten reference? Really? I thought this community couldn’t sink any lower into appeal to emotion, no-logic-allowed territory.

This is completely ridiculous. It’s a 2% (at most!) stat increase to your character! (Notice that I said “to your character”, not “vs. exotic gear” google the math.)

And the promise of a legendary for every slot to come at a later time.. in other words THIS WILL KEEP ON GOING!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.
Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

OK – where does establishing an entire new tier of gear AND a new “agony” system in which people are rewarded for excluding those who don’t have enough agony resist fit in with your manifesto considering this game’s sense of community and content experience?

I also add that you have just tipped your hand that Ascended gear is not the end of this, either, that you are also introducing MORE legendaries. (Probably one for every single slot?!, that’s ABSURD and is a slap in the face to all loyal gw2 players who signed on to the manifesto and demonstrated ANet history of skill-based play!)

Wasn’t content supposed to be enjoyed for its own sake, rather than the sole sake of obtaining “e-shinies”? Why not add to endgame by adding paths to existing dungeons and new dungeons, even paths with obviously higher difficulty, but without the “aid or necessity” of “Ascended gear” or yet more legendaries?

I’d sacrifice all existing in-game assets, including existing characters and their names, to see an announcment that Ascended gear and ALL legendaries “in the works” were being scrapped.

mulch.2586:

plasmacutter.2709:

I feel like Im cheating when I have the opportunity to overgear an encounter.

How much gear improvement do you think it will take to make you feel like you’re overgeared? How many stat points?

This game was painstakingly balanced around the maximum level of exotics. I’ve seen the difference moving from greens to superiors as I leveled, and I think anything beyond exotic would ridiculously trivialize the content. (for reference on this.. what I “think” about this is quite relevant, as both of my degrees are in STEM fields which stress the analsys of both time-series and cyclical scaling)

I did not even plan to go for legendary.

When it was just the legendary difference, given the difficulty of obtaining one, I did not believe it would become a quality of exclusion from explorables.

This, however, will, assuming there’s anyone left to DO the explorables because they’re being forced to get Ascended or face diminished loot as other people who DO have them farm world events for gold.

Absolutely Dead On to the Original Poster.

I feel offering a greater gear differential and then requiring that to be there rewards the exclusion of other players from your efforts, which is the exact opposite of what ANet posted in their endless blogging for GW2

I feel like Im cheating when I have the opportunity to overgear an encounter.

I feel that WoW has already cornered the market and perfected the concept of a gear-grind game, and ANet will NEVER keep these people to which they are trying to cater in the game, but they seem to be doing their absolute best to drive away those who supported the original guild wars and looked so forward to GW2.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Looria.8019:

Mesket.5728:

Forum comunity is not representative for the player base… the real players are there playing and not posting here.

If they are not posting here, that means they dont care about the game.
Players feedback is what every mmo NEEDS to get better, improve, evolve.

Those players who dont bring their opinions to the table about the game and give devs some ideas are useless to the community.

. . . so let’s see, on the one hand I owe it to the game and community to come here and make my opinions known. On the other hand, if I don’t pick a side I don’t deserve to speak . . . yeah.

I’ve put my thoughts up over a half-dozen topics, including some more thoughtful works over at the “human nature” thread. I’ve added to the appeal to please . . . please keep this polite and not overly confrontational. I’ve revised opinions and backtracked once on seeing someone actually volunteer numbers.

In this, I’ve been called an apologist, been told I’m an idiot and not worth listening to, and at least one stellar person had to catch me on an overflow to tell me I was an example of why the game was going to fail and I should go back to grinding in WoW.

(And no, I don’t play WoW.)

So, tell me, in the face of this kind of reaction to trying to hold a fairly MODERATE position . . . why shoulkittenep talking and inviting more of this or worse? With so much of this being “you’re with us or against us” flying around, what is the point to trying?

I still want to be an asset to the community but . . . Kormir on a Spear some of you make this hard.

What are the raw numbers you have gathered?

If you want to calm the fury with empiricism, then I suggest a new thread with real numbers, but don’t be surprised if people don’t agree with your assessment of those numbers.

ebrown.8193:

Just give them 90 days and most of them will have moved on. They’re called locusts. This is nothing new.

Apparently in this case, they’re destroying even the parts they don’t want to eat before they move on.

Do locusts in real life eat the topsoil too?

At the end of the day, this specific design, which is a much more unimaginative verison of WoW normal vs hard mode raids, specifically rewards people with advantages for excluding others.

This is directly counter to the stated manifesto in designing this game.

It’s demoralizing and definitely makes me worry about logging on.

TWMagimay.9057:

Rainsoul Moonmourne.9743:

While one cannot disagree that this is increasing the rudeness of people, crushes all the “friendly community game” we were seing on betas and so much more, one also has to see the positive side.

Having you seen a topic “I’m lvl 20 fotm and all those noobs keep shouting for lvl 2 so I can’t get a party”? Cause I haven’t. But this is at least the 3rd “I’m lvl 2 and all those elitist lvl 10+ don’t wanna do it with me” that I read. It’s the entitled vs the elitist. Where apparently everybody who won’t go out of their way to run a dungeon they don’t need with a complete stranger is an elitist. Imo, the rudeness originates in the entitled group and the elitist just react to it.

People “get theirs”, and then turn on and exclude those who are trying to play the game for the experience because they’d be an “inconvenience”, and you are calling the excluded people “entitled” for believing they should be able to play the game they paid for without being excluded, in a game which is designed to be inclusive which was the major presented tagline intent of the devs?!

How hypocritical can you get.

The devs put into place a terrible design which rewards people for excluding others, and it’s resulted in this. THAT Is why so many people are pissed.

If they balance around gear rather than skill-based play, it means we are being insulted.

If I have to wear special gear to down an event, I feel like I’ve cheated.

If they build the event around me “cheating”, that makes me feel worse.

Rynarx.6124:

This is one aspect I think Arenanet made mistakes. I think most people who played MMO consider gear(stats) is a fundamental need by everyone and should be obtainable within reasonable effort. For vanity items and cosmetics, people are more forgiving even if the drop rate are near impossible to get.

This is one part I think that Blizzard balance fairly well in WoW, they made gear(stats) fairly reasonable to obtain with some effort, but some vanity items for example like some special mounts (strat UD mount) had like 0.1% drop rate but people in general was still okay with it and would mindlessly grind for it.

Seems like Arenanet totally went the opposite way by making the gear much harder to obtain than vanity/cosmetics items.

When I wear special gear to down content, I feel like i’ve cheated.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Yeah, I’m very much willing to wait for the whole new ways of getting ascended gear. I believe they intended to put all ways to get ascended gear in, in one big expansion pack type of idea.

That you can only get ascended gear through FotM feels very limited to me too, even though I very much enjoy doing it so. (I’m still not further than diff. 2) However I’m willing to wait out grinding for the fullest of maximum stats, just so they have time to put in more methods. Plus exotic gear already made alot of the content easy.

In a way I feel they need to address the issue with player progression to get ascended (or even legendary gear). Because rihgt now it doesnt feel that much fun to get the materials. Though, I haven’t gotten my 77 clovers yet for my legendary I already found this generates alot of the T6 materials. And in a way I feel that recipe could be improved and worked upon so that it makes less of an issue. (it takes a few skillpoints, mystic coins, karma and ectos atm)

If lucky clovers were useful for something else than legendaries for example.

I play for the experience and challenge of playing. I don’t want to be gated based on gear. I’d rather they put different levels of difficulty on all dungeons and balance them around the original exotic gear level.