Guild Wars 2

zone.1073:

ronpierce.2760:

It’s hard to be okay with standing still for the full cast in melee, after a 1 1/4 cast someone could be well out of range of my melee which would defeat the purpose. And I still like having to aim myself, I just wish it’d start casting regardless of me facing them, as long as I’m facing them when it goes off.

Obviously if they are running around you in circles and dodging through your body, they are not going to be out of range if you stood still and auto-turned. If they do begin running away, then you don’t have to stand still; you stick on them. You have to make that call yourself.

Again, this is a skill cap for playing melee. It takes a good degree of finesse with character and camera control to successfully pull off melee. I don’t believe GW2 should lower that skill cap.

This isn’t a skill cap for playing melee. It’s a screw over for having cast abilities. If you use a hammer and start casing a hammer ability away from your target it starts to cast, not instantly go on cool down. You can cast facing away and turn around for the finish. Try it, all actual melee attacks function this way. This is a case of using a melee weapon while all off hands function as caster abilities cause us to get screwed

Burjis.3087:

I don’t see any justification for nerfing this skill. Necros were meant to be able to control boons. This skill was our bunker breaker, it was one of the few skills we had that made us unique in tournaments. Limiting it this way, makes our effectiveness in this role to do a nose dive.
I’m afraid they did to this skill, what they did to corrosive poison cloud.
With all the boosts we got, this nerf makes the entire patch bitter for me.

Oh and by the way, something being “insanely powerful under ideal circumstances” can’t be called OP.

Not to mention in order for us to hit that “ideal window” to feel OP, the target would have to have basically all boons, in which case they’re extremely OP. and most times if someone can stack Boone that well if we only get rid of 5 they’ll be right back a second later. CB was the only way we could even handle most boon lovers in spvp. Without it they win attrition every single time.

If they have to nerf it in order to scale it just leave it aline

Copenhagen.7015:

Necro focus #4 and #5 and offhand dagger #4 are the worst offenders in regards to cast fail. What helped me was increasing my mouse look speed a bit. The problem I had was turning around quick and pressing my ability only to have it fail because my camera didn’t make the full turn yet.

I wouldn’t mind if failing due to fancy foot work if only I could atleast start the cast with a little wiggle room. I just hate how it has 2 fail points and Focus 5 has a long cast (lots of chances to be interrupted) it just makes the whole situation awful. I don’t really see the point of it triggering a full cool down just because they aren’t facing you when you begin the cast. I mean you can charge up warrior hammer swings and turn around and hit them, why wouldn’t focus casts work the same?

zone.1073:

When an opponent is dodging through you, one nice trick is to stop moving, let go of the right mouse button, and continue your attacks and channels. Your character will automatically face the opponent as he’s running around and through you in circles.

Other than that, it’s just part of the skill cap of playing melee. Good camera control with the right mouse button is key to being a good melee player.

It’s hard to be okay with standing still for the full cast in melee, after a 1 1/4 cast someone could be well out of range of my melee which would defeat the purpose. And I still like having to aim myself, I just wish it’d start casting regardless of me facing them, as long as I’m facing them when it goes off.

I’m having a bit of an issue mechanically, which is starting to frustrate me. Casting with melee players dancing through you, and being melee myself, cast time’s especially large cast time’s are far too frustrating in PvP. Not only do they miss if you cast and the run through you at the last second, but if they run through you as you use it, you don’t even start to cast, you just automatically fail and it goes on cooldown. We get a double whammy. Just so you know I’m shameless and will tell you I’m playing a Dagger/Focus Nacro, so my main attack is 130 and focus 5 is a 1 1/4 cast time…

I would like to suggest, All casts can be STARTED regardless of direction facing, as long as when it fires off, you’re facing your target (which is already still required). It doesn’t nerf skill factor, in fact it can actually increase skillful playing, and it still requires the final push to be facing the enemy. Currently there are just too many teleports, roll arounds, people running through you, to deal with cast times to have 2 chances to fail just because of facing.

Discuss?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

This isn’t healing we’re talking about though. We’re talking about regenerating through damage application. Honestly, I think the healing through Vampirism should be more of a tankish thing. Having it scale with HP would just make it a generic bunkeresque option, which we already have.

The reason I say split the scaling is that necros already feel like healing power doesn’t do enough for us, and I can mind of agree with that

Yeah I wish I knew. They want to “make good utilities weaker to make weaker ones more purposeful”. Which is great since CB already wasnt OP. it changed 3-4 Boons on most basic enemies. No problem. It hurt the most boon lovers who could just get them all back in a second anyways. Now it doesn’t hurt them as much while they keep up full Boons easier now. While still has a long cd and misses a lot and poisons us. I’m really starting to question these balancers… :S

All they have to do is split the damage and healing like Siphon dagger 2. Make the damage scale with power, and the healing have split scaling with half scaling from vitality half from healing power, and bam. It’d be great.

It better not. That’d be infuriating.

Pendragon.8735:

It should work right before being nerfed, still seems to have weird los issues where it just misses for no reason you can discern.

And no self poison if it misses has to happen.

You’d think, but that’s not how things are handled in the necro district :S

Blaine Tog.8304:

I kinda get why this skill is being nerfed, since it seems insanely OP when used under ideal circumstances. But it would be nice if it were compensated heavily for a nerf like, or at least prioritized Stability, Vigor, and Protection.

Agreed, at least have a priority system, with at LEAST stability being #1, all else, I really don’t mind having to work around.

Can we get it on a shorter cool down? I got to thinking, and even Spinal Shivers is a 16 second cooldown and removes 3 plus adds chill and what-not. The conversions aren’t that powerful and we deal about 600+ damage to ourselves and reduce healing effectiveness for 7 seconds even if we miss. I feel like 40 seconds on a 5 boon ripper that hurts us too is a little steep, assuming this goes through.

Not to mention the added RNG this gives us because of things like Lyssa or Eles who always have tons of boons, now we have to cross out fingers and just pray that Stability is taken while they can reapply all their boons in about 10 seconds. It’d be nice if we could just it more frequently and reliably, if they’re going to nerf it.

Bhawb.7408:

MM isn’t getting nerfed at all in this patch, they just aren’t getting directly buffed. Don’t play strict MMs either, my MM build is getting a really nice buff because of the other things, because full MM builds aren’t that great right now.

My point is they’re indirectly getting nerfed because the reason they won’t buff them for team fights (which is what they need, not silly other buffs) is because they are “good at 1v1”, but with these changes, even that won’t be the best route for 1v1. Thus; if you run MM, you’d likely do just as good as better with another build as Necro. That’s what’s killing MM, not specific nerfs. The problem here is you’ve accepted “full mm builds aren’t that great right now”, they’re even worse after this because everything else goes up in tier. It is a problem when one of the most iconic builds for Necro is being shafted because of some strange idea that they’re too good in 1v1, when they wont even be the best for that afterward.

Pendragon.8735:

Besides no help for healing power / siphon, and no help for Blood Magic, what makes me think these notes might be fake is Anet specifically mentioned aiding the Necro via shorter cast times, and noted how this was a big problem holding the profession back in terms of attrition and being able to sustain in a fight when everyone can kick us around and interrupt so many of our skills.

I see no cast time reductions, actually a couple increases.

Something like Enfeebling Blood is direly in need of a shorter cast time. Reaper’s Touch is also too long to be very skill reactive.

Spinal Shivers still has a ridiculous cast for a boon rip
Minions will die in AOE still in 4 seconds, because MM is “good at 1v1” (which will be outshined by wells likely after the patch even, and are useless in JUST about everything else already)
Horn daze still 1/2 sec cast which makes it hard as a reliable interrupt based on any skill factors.
No Blood buffs
No change to Greater Marks (either merged with master or become baseline)
MM is still bloated (all over the place and too many traits)
Still 2 death magic Grand Masters
No healing/REzing/Stomping in DS
Apparently it’ll be ok to have 60% uptime stability with Soul Reaping

I’m not sure what they’re really wanting to come from this, they’re pushing one of the least used specs even further into the water, while not fixing what they said they would, and making some other stuff seemingly OP, which will make the class as a whole look “way too good”. I’m nearing my end here. The bug fix patch barely fixed anything, they wanted to add more options, and are almost single handedly killing off one of the options alone.

I Theorize Wells will become the new best 1v1 build, or fear, and MM will be driven out of even THAT category, so MM will be 100% useless in all aspects because they want minions to be expendable which means die in AOE in 4 seconds.

Andele.1306:

One thing that noone seems to touch, CB is getting a nerf… The only ability that counters the 10 seconds of “i dont need skill i have all boons” Save yourselves (up to 30 with lyssa runes and boon duration). If anything shouldnt it be normalized with how steals work to corrupt for full duration of the boon applied?

I didn’t touch this because I won’t want to rant anymore. They’re not helping MM due to the fact that it “can 1v1 well”, in which every other aspect its useless, and also in 1v1 if they can avoid ccs easily or have any aoe you’re also screwed, but also now they add a new profession that punishes movement… Kind like dumb minions constantly chasing someone? Aside from pushing them to the abyss, now Corrupt Boon has the wonderful taste of RNG. Will it corrupt stability or is RNG going to kitten me? Awesome design.

Bhawb.7408:

Actually, DS 5 is going to have decent synergy with minion builds. Its basically guaranteed bonus damage (you need to kite minions), and with Bone Fiend you can chain immobilize a single target for ages.

It doesn’t really matter, we won’t have minions to do anything with it still. Especially if any other type of necro is around or, you know. All the stuff that already aoes down minions in 4 seconds. You’ll be basically a traitless/utilityless necro. Might as well play wells and make some good use of that CC for power wells.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

ronpierce.2760:

Sure, main hand first hit blind? Added

for thieves…

and mesmer

Sure, main hand first hit blind? Added

If these changes alone get launched and nothing to help MM I’ll likely quit. I was trying to hold on by a thread on the only spec I even like in this game, so instead of allowing our minions to survive AOE a little better because were “Good at 1v1” (oh, if you don’t have any aoe…) they buff Necros AOE spec that was already more viable in most places, buff condis, and ADD A NEW CONDITION, that punishes movement, such as… stupid moving minions? Great. Also, according to John, there’s no plans on helping them because they’re good in 1v1. Turn down the damage a little on them if its that big of a deal, because they’re obviously hitting as hard and consistently as Mesmer Phantasms, just let them survive ANY aoe conditions, a LITTLE bit? Please kitten . It’s the closest thing you’re going to get to a necro that isn’t basically a spell slinging warlock, and you push it deeper into the water it was already downing in.

/endrantrage

brb as I get some VERY important duels in before this all goes down.

Let’s compile all the things that seem to be missing from the “Leaks”, that seemed like it should have been addressed either rightfully or by dev hint. Try to stick with professions you are knowledgable. This isn’t a “So and so shouldn’t have gotten x” thread. I’ll start off and it’ll give an idea.
Leak Page: http://pastebin.com/2rrFg9ps

Necro:
No mention of Moa not killing all minions.
No Pet AOE survivability.
Shadow Fiend haunt, no mention of a faster activation.
No mentions of Healing in DS/ stomping+rezing
No mention for Leeching/Vamp buffs hinted.
No mention on Greater Marks being baked in or merged with Staff Mastery.
No mention on lowering Life Transfer CD.
No mention on Corrupt Boon poisoning self on miss/no target (Inconsistent with blood is power)
No mention of Jagged Horror and Horde minor traits.

(I only feel I should comment heavily on Necromancer, esp MM, as its my specialty) but fill in all the no-show expectation (not just farfetched wishes) notes that you were expecting but didn’t show (yet). I just want to get a general over view of what we’re looking at from everyones’ angel in one place.

Waffler.1257:

I wonder if there will be a cool down on how many times an enemy can trigger the fear on spectral wall. If not, that will be the ultimate troll skill and I will definitely be incorporating it into my build.

If not, just have 2 people put down a fear wall on either side of an enemy and they would run back and forth into the other person’s like ping pong. xD

There was no love for aoe on minions in those fake notes, or the merging of Greater Marks. I’m pretty sure greater marks won’t make it to live.

randomfightfan.4091:

There`s a lot of good here, some necessary balance changes, and some terrible. Sounds like a normal balance patch and I like it. Assuming that’s true, I really really wish they didn’t do a few of these things:

Last Refuge: The cooldown of this trait has been reduced from 90 seconds to 60. (The cooldown was never the problem with this skill. This skill was the problem with this skill.)
Lotus Poison: Increased weakness duration to 4 seconds, but it can only apply once every 20 seconds per target.
Hard to Catch: The cooldown of this effect has been reduced from 60 seconds to 30. (should have just removed the skill)
Throw Scale: Reduced weakness duration to 6 seconds. (The worst steal got nerfed?)
Nine tail strike: 3 initiative to 5, Shadow assault: 5 initiative to 7 Thief underwater just got neutered. Luckily nobody cares about underwater.

The rest look good or I can see why they were nerfed. Quick question though… Skale Venom: Replaced Weakness with Torment. What’s torment?

I’m not sure if these are real or not, but I wish they were (but I don’t play a thief). Anyways. Torment is the new Condition that duels damage to an enemy while moving. If they’re moving while its on they will take damage.

Well, I’m betting it probably won’t, it’ll likely just tick as they’re moving, and that’s about it. But if I had to guess for about… a month after it releases it won’t be anything but another bleed because people won’t think to watch for it close enough.

Hey everyone, in the midst of all the chaos going on with the 25th update, I just wanted to have some fun. I got this idea when reading the (supposed) thief leaked notes. I got to thinking, I don’t even really know many diehard thief fans who don’t play other stuff more.

So my question is, and entirely opinion and fun based, what do you think the top 3 classes are in sPvP for “Die hard” fans for a specific class. (Such as I consider myself a diehard necro).

1. Mesmers
2. Necromancer
3. Probably Ranger.

Flip side, I don’t really know many “diehard” Guardian sPvP fans.

Oh boy, intensity gives me hope. Thief can reapply it easy, give necros INTENSITY!

Brutal Arts.6307:

Isn’t this the guy that thought warriors would be happy with banner buffs?

Lmfao

ninao.1208:

Is anet playing with necromancers???
they said they give this new cond to necros to balance professions, but since it wold be fair to have the new condition only in necros, they decided to give it away to the 2 most mobile/ivasive profession in the game aka tiefs and mesmers.
I realy hope this is a joke from anet

Not to mention if its only on DS 5, it’ll likely have a REALLY long CD, where as if it even so much as looks at a thief weapon skill, they have it up 100% of the time.

Everyone has abilities that are adjusted to their healing (such as boon access), so they can heal proportionately to their HP, almost every build can, if played well, go back to 100% from 30% and so forth. A warrior especially but also necro, cannot really do that. They have no sustain in that way, which is not good for balance. They’re doomed to lose if they don’t kill fast enough. That said, a large issue here is that they don’t heal enough of their HP pool when they heal, while others heal a larger percentage of their HP.

Zacchary.6183:

Auesis.7301:

I know it won’t happen in a million years, but if Torment was attached to Caltrops I would laugh and laugh and laugh.

Sounds promising, though. Will have to see how it plays out.

Oh god please let this happen. I will love anet again.

And everyone else will quit. :P

Durzlla.6295:

ronpierce.2760:

Durzlla.6295:

osif.8673:

“Enemies under Torment will take damage periodically; as they move, they’ll take even more damage. In looking to expand the condition diversity of thieves and mesmers, we decided to include Torment skills for those two professions as well.”

I’ll definitely be switching my Mesmer back to a condi specc, as it was my favorite way to play my Mesmer. Maybe this next patch will make us a reliable source of applicable condition damage again. I’m excited for the possibilities of Torment!

I think i’m going to do a backflip in absolute joy at the addition of this condition, it’s like my favorite skill from Rift on my Dominator(Storm Shackles)!

If it goes onto my scepter i will be a very very happy mesmer!

If I’m not mistaken that rift move was absolutely broken and OP when it first launched XD

Oh it was lol, it did like 1/4th of their health bar every second they were moving, but it’s fixed now and remains to be my favorite xD

It is a very fun concept. I will enjoy it. But I am a LITTLE worried about thief (the best mobile class in the entire game) getting an anti movement ability. Kinda makes me nervous.

Yep. That’s my thoughts too Oozo. I’m not too thrilled about this unless they do some serious bringing down of other things for thieves/mes.

Durzlla.6295:

osif.8673:

“Enemies under Torment will take damage periodically; as they move, they’ll take even more damage. In looking to expand the condition diversity of thieves and mesmers, we decided to include Torment skills for those two professions as well.”

I’ll definitely be switching my Mesmer back to a condi specc, as it was my favorite way to play my Mesmer. Maybe this next patch will make us a reliable source of applicable condition damage again. I’m excited for the possibilities of Torment!

I think i’m going to do a backflip in absolute joy at the addition of this condition, it’s like my favorite skill from Rift on my Dominator(Storm Shackles)!

If it goes onto my scepter i will be a very very happy mesmer!

If I’m not mistaken that rift move was absolutely broken and OP when it first launched XD

I just wonder why they gave it to thieves who is the most mobile of all (aka requiring the most chase)… Seems… not smart. It better not be on a FotM lolspam build. T_T

crosses fingers on distance traveled

Change it so Sword 3 doesn’t cripple, and leap (sword3^2) causes the cripple and leave out the root, then sure, I’d be fine with sword 2 staying how it is. Atm the combo is so brain dead.

Blackhat.4016:

Brigg.6189 basically gave you the proper answer.

High HP = Low sustain
Low HP = High sustain

That’s how it is supposed to be balanced but currently there is a problem:

High sustain > High HP

That’s why you see more ele bunkers than warrior bunkers. Giving warriors and necros heal skills which are based on their HP is a terrible idea though. First of all it would make Healing Power pointless and secondly it would make necros and warrior OP. Why would you pick a guardian or ele bunker who is susceptible to burst if you can have a warrior without that disadvantage? Ofc it feels weird to heal for 50% of your HP as a warrior while the ele goes back to 100% but that’s simply because of their base HP.

I do agree that warriors and necros need a buff when it comes to sustain but it shouldn’t be based on their HP.

I’m not sure you’re understanding what’s being said. I never said heal % of health. I said the % of health we regain from a heal is not proportionate to how much health others heal. We already lost a lot of defenses such as Invuln/Vigor/Protection to have this HP, not healing more to support a higher base HP means we have almost no sustain. I’m not talking about healing % hp, just our heals in general need to be bigger to support a higher HP pool. Read my (I believe) second or third post, and it explains why.

Burjis.3087:

Here’s a sample of what will be updated:

Necro:
- New Death Magic grandmaster trait: “Don ’t just stand there! Do something!”: Your minions will stop just walking around and looking pretty and actually try attacking your enemies. (50 second cooldown)

Mesmer:
- Your illusion’s response time has been improved to 0.0000000001 second.

stoked for this patch. Minion AI buff woot!

The title is a little bit misleading.

PVE doesn’t seem to be our biggest issues. You can power well in PVE on mobs that are pretty predictable, or condi build on them with little fear of them being mass wiped. Our biggest issues are actually PvP, and in which cases we have a pretty valid right to be concerned. On the PVE side of things, we’re not warriors. But we can do fine. Dagger does good single target DPS, and we have quite a few viable ways to play. And overall, it is just fun.

Yeah, corrupting vigor is really underwhelming for the boon that it is.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

As I have said, the bunker build Spazzcromancer created is just as effective as any Guardian bunker. Capable of holding off multiple enemies. I cannot post the full build but it focuses on protection, and deathshroud.

I assume I kind of get the idea of the build, is it like 0/0/10/30/30 or 0/0/20/20/30? My question is, while being able to tank is it as useful to a group as other bunkers? And does it have the potential to stay on point like a guardian while also throwing others off point?

edit: save this for personal conversation, this will get off topic really fast.

Have you guys played a necro in a while?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Actually, no. Even the toughest bunker builds for Mesmer are less effective than an Acrobatics S/D Thief, but are infact far superior to a Warrior attempting to bunker. However, I have said before in Necro forums, that there is a way to bunker with Necro just as effectively with Guardian, so I cannot lie there, we can bunker. We simply cannot tank, and we lack NORMAL survivability that other classes have in spades WITHOUT having to spec for it.

I agree thakittens worse than optimal bunker, I’m just saying they’ve very survivable. But to the Necro bunker thing, I agree we can bunker- but I’d say to an extent. We can solo bunk (1v1) decently, or at least I can as an MM bunker, but I feel like even then, we lose our shine when we try to bunker when vs multiple enemies. We can’t bunk multiple enemies like a S/D thief, Regen ranger, Guardian, Engi and ele can. (And maybe on par or alittle worse than Mes on multiple, because they have target drops and 25% uptime invuln).

As far as I’ve ever noticed because our lack of ability to regain a proportionate amount of health, we can’t hold off multiple enemies nearly like other classes can (save warrior).

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I would consider myself an above average Warrior, I love using the class and I am quite effective on it imo. You are infact quite correct, Warriors are by far absolutely pathetic in survivability.

It’s literally impossible to bunker correctly as a Warrior (even a Mesmer can bunker better), and if you want to be able to do any damage, you will be easier to kill than any other class, even with the high HP. I have been able to be a bit tanky, but again, at a sacrifice of damage.

“Even Mesmer can” can be kinda tricky. I’ve seen certain Phant defender+Staff/sword mesmers that could take a beating haha. I’d say far more than both necros and Warrior. Phant Defender absorbs 50% damage, with Signet of Illusion, that’s some good uptime. I just wanted to throw that in.

@Altroll, Yes it may be a little biased, mainly because I’ve been maining necro recently, but I actually feel like this issue is worse on warriors than necros, so that pads the bias. And my initial thoughts of this spawned long ago watching warriors and looking into their mechanics, an I’ve never really mained a warrior.

However, I don’t feel like I have so say much else. Speshal said everything I could say and more. I hope ANET catches wind of this. Maybe someone with some warrior experience can toss a stone into the well.

galandor.1059:

I honestly don’t feel the Necro needs that many changes. They are game changers as is on points if played right, they can change the entire outcome of a team fight with 1 ability, and if left free casting can decimate enemies.

I kind of feel like if you don’t think Necro needs a lot of changes you haven’t played it enough or at high end. No small fixes can fix all of the issues we have:

Poor trait design/synergy.
Bloated traits (80% of traits have to be minion oriented to play with them, Stakitten require traited to even really be viable, and it doesn’t even include the CD reduction most weapon traits offer)
Low protection, Low regen, No vigor.
Many of our utilities aren’t useful.
Our best utilities hurt us unless we run a condi transfer build.
Our pet spec has silly AI and get AOEd down far too fast, and if they do, we are without the use of 80% of our traits.
We can’t start out the fight on an even footing because minions don’t regen and we start with no Life force and it regenerates too slowly.
Our Defenses are from DS, which kills itself when in it, then gets bursted down fast, provides no anti CC, and if we run out of life force we also lose access to a set of abilities.
If we use our defenses, it kills off some utilities (Spectral armor), Regen does nothing, our heal leech pet Blood fiend doesn’t help us (and in this time it can be getting attacked/killed especially from aoe), If you want to run with Leeching weapons/runes they can be wasted in Death Shroud.
We can’t rez or stomp in our “defense mechanism” which doesn’t stop CC what-so-ever, but people can mist/stealth/stability stomp no problem.
We’re forced into staff or Consume conditions to reliable handle conditions(which is less of a problem, I could care less about this but it is a little annoying).
We have no invulnerabilities so we take EVERYTHING, especially if we get weakened we can dodgeroll like once every 20 seconds (5% per second base, 2.5 if weakened).
^ In regards to that, our pets also take everything, they have no condi removal, or otherwise.
We have buggy abilities such as Doom, Corrupt Boon, down state 2 which sometimes even if it should go off, it just decides not to.
We’re slow as hell so we can’t roam as effectively as others.

These are just basic things that bring us down.

Rerroll.9083:

Yeah sure, let’s give the highest healings to the classes with highest HP pool. Perfect pvp balance!!!!!!111111111111

You didn’t think this out well did you?

Okay. Say I have 27k hp. I take 10k damage. I head for 5k at the end of it, because I don’t have a lot of avoidance. I now have 22k hp and draining.

Okay, say I have 15k hp, I take 6k because I could stun break, I had a lot of evades and protection. I heal for 5k. I’m back to 15k.

Repeat this with a high HP hemorrhaging hp at that rate, It takes about 5-6 “heal rotations” for me to die off, while it takes about 15 for the ladder to finally die.

Now, I know it’s not this flat, it’s just an example of how potential incoming damage is. High HP classes have much less access to Vigor (dodges, flat damage and cc avoidance), Protection(Raw damage reduction), Generally less Regen(added healing), Less mobility (Escaping, which can be applied for various uses), etc. The design of High HP is to sustain burst and be able to take a few hits, rather than avoiding it all or mitigating it. However if we’re taking damage at a higher rate than everyone else and healing for the same amount, we dwindle away, while others can continue to last unless they make a mistake (which is how fights should be won, by overcoming and performing better, not racing the clock, if I can’t OUTperform, then I will lose by default)