Guild Wars 2

TyPin.9860:

BurrTheKing.8571:

1. “Warrior has no weaknesses”

This is the most recent bit of propaganda I’ve been seeing in great numbers. It often comes hand in hand with some statement about how they can do everything in one build or at least an implication of such. One would think that if this statement were true then we would only ever see Warriors. I mean, if they have no weaknesses then why wouldn’t you run a 5 Warrior PvP team. If this claim is true then they would probably dominate. In WvW, I would see no reason to run anything other than Warrior as well. A good Warrior player should also never lose to a good player of any other class, right?

That is flawed logic. But I can’t blame you, it comes with the warrior mentality of wanting to have everything. A hambow warrior for instance is very much broken in PvP imho. They can cover the cap point in fire, are very resilient, put out very strong sustain damage, have one of the most amazing condition cleanses on a ridiculously low cool down and can make themselves immune to conditions for 8-10 seconds on top of that every 60 seconds, if I remember right. I fail to see the weaknesses in this particular build. Yes they have not much mobility, but that doesn’t hurt too much when contesting points. Most of the other professions/builds have to deal with more serious disadvantages at the same time. See Shatter Mesmer for instance (considered the most/only viable build for mesmer in top PvP). They can deal serious damage and boon strip and with portal can have/give a very good mobility around the map, they are paper and often don’t have any condition cleanse. They have to be on top of their game often when fighting a Hambow Warrior, while the warrior can make mistakes after mistakes and still has good chances of winning the fight. The Mesmer on the other hand mustn’t make any mistake, or he is dead.

Having no disadvantages doesn’t necessarily mean they are good at doing everything. This are different issues. Also Hambow warriors are very effective in the lower skill levels, but lose some of their advantage on higher skill levels. But you cannot balance everything around the top tier levels of gameplay, especially in a game that wants to appeal to the casual gamers.

I agree though that, if there are weaknesses, they are tied to the warrior build, rather than the profession. While this can be a disadvantage as a lock down warrior if your foe has perma stability, it is only a weakness for this particular build.

Over all the problem is, that warriors have I win buttons against certain other builds/professions. For example: Immunity to conditions against a condition Necromancer can mean certain death for the necro. The warrior can burst him down, while the necromancer losses the majority of ways to hold up his defenses (no cripple, no chill, no fear, no weakness, which a necromancer needs to stay alive). If the necro has some life force, he can hide in deathshroud, only that this is depleted, when the fight starts for him…

Just to say that mesmers have good condition cleanse. They just dont trait / use their utilities.

A warrior trait and uses his utilities. Usualy a warrior is not zerker if he wants to be viable, but also, mesmers and warriors have diferente roles so it makes sense to one to use zerker and the other dont.

Comparing classes is not the clever thing to do.

Terrahero.9358:

Ezeriel.9574:

A warrior landing 12k eviscerates is full glass.

If i compare my Warrior in full zerker to my Engineer, the latter has either vitality or toughness on every piece of gear. My Warrior, despite having ZERO vitality or toughness still has both more health and more armor.
Not to mention better healing and far better condition removal. Thats not even counting utility skills yet.

So there is no such thing as a glass warrior. Only relative to other Warriors could a Warrior build be considered “glassy”.

A full zerker warrior with good condition removal has to trait for it. Try to do the same to your class.

Iavra.8510:

I think I would rather want to see adrenaline gain made harder.

I already made a proposal in another thread:
- Remove adrenaline gain from Cleansing Ire and let it cleanse 1 condition per burst ability, not per bar spent.
- Burst skills consume adrenaline, no matter if they miss or not.

-> Adrenaline is harder to get, weakness against conditions increased, more reliable cleanse without having to rely on LB.

If you tweak the numbers on the heals a bit, Mending or Healing Surge could even become usable with this.

Actually if they buff both healing skills as you said i can see this works. But untill then there should be no change.

LordByron.8369:

silentnight warrior.2714:

“Despite warrior healing is better than elementalist”.

- In what game?
GW2 as proved by tables.
You can evade be invulnerable and kite while healing…passive play at its worst

“Its clear to see balance Bias when you see healing signet nerfed of 8% and RTL nerfed of 250% along other skill doing the same.”

- What Healing signet got to do with mobility?

Its not about mobuility but about approach to nerfs… 8% is ridiculous when usually they nerf minor stuff by not less than 50%.

8% nerf paired with 10% average damage nerf (ferocity) is just a bad joke.

“Not to mention signet of restoration in the past.”

- They reverted the nerf they made for PvP.

That doesn t change the different attitude:
A weaker signet nerfed by 50%
a stronger signet nerfed by 8%

“But as someone said…ele can heal fast to 100% HP while warrior can heal only to 50%….. >_> (find the mistake).”

There is no mistake. If you remember well elementalist could bunker better than warriors and they give more suport also in the same time (and still can) with their low health pool.

They heal the same……warrior has 2X HP and more armor
Something shouldn t exist.

Ok. So to a warrior be able to heal e has to make is openent do nothing to him. Thats not passive play.
And again, even so, show mw how a warrior can beat a elementalist in healing. Dont Forget water fields and blasts.

I still dont know what HS as to do about mobility…
And if you see weaker signet nerf by 50% and a stronger one nerfed in 8% you can tell much about the healing capabilites of each class.

Iavra.8510:

Kiting a GS + Axe/Sword Warrior sure is easy when he only has WW, Rush, Eviscerate, Bull’s Charge, Throw Axe, Bladetrail (Cripple) + long Duration Swiftness.

Have you ever tried kiting a thief? At least you can kite a warrior….

Sagat.3285:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Sagat.3285:

silentnight warrior.2714:

MarauderShields.6830:

silentnight warrior.2714:

You dont have that problem with d/p.

Then the cooldown is 9 seconds.

Its way less than 9 seconds (the time you land your backstab till you have another one ready to be landed) but lets assume it is.

Its balanced right????

And dont forget that thiefs have multiple ways to enter stealth without using iniciative.

Multiple? If you mean SR 60 sec and Blinding Powder 40 sec then yeah it’s balanced or maybe stealing from another thief eh?

You already said three ways to enter stealth withou ini.. but there is more… keep looking

Yes there is more but the situation won’t let those happen most of the time. You do not compare damage between medium and heavy armor class here is why : The lower the armor (tough/vital) the higher the burst and the more rewarding is the sustain system is glass ele>glass thief>glass war but glass guard is closer to thief or ele because of lower HP.

The higher your base defense your ability to survive will be inferior to others immune/reflect>stealth>GS mobility/block but meditations are closer to stealth.

Well a healing skill that gives you stealth (and removes conditions) can be used really well. And a steal that gives you stealth is also very good.

I see that from another view. All classes should be able to have the same surviability rate, just using their diferent class mechanics. The thing is professions are able to fit diferent roles. You dont want a thief bunkering a point, but you would want a thief roaming.
Even if backstab have a lower damage than eviscerate, thiefs are better at that role than warriors.

Shinjo.6092:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Shinjo.6092:

silentnight warrior.2714:

NinjaEd.3946:

Its a hella strong skill. Reason I question why all burst skills have a 10 second cooldown, as if they are balanced around that. cough combustive shot cough

So… What is the cooldown of backstab? or any thief skill?

It can potentially be infinity because you spent all your initiative trying to blind the warrior in a feeble attempt to avoid his 1.5k-3k autos and you weren’t able to stealth. And it still does less damage than eviscerate.

Mean while you are attaking with your auto that also does very nice damage and is quicker that warrior one and also can aply poison (d/p), you ckittene (are able to use) a leap that deals damage AND gives you stealth if you are inside the smoke field and backstab again. Repeat. The iniciative mechanic give thiefs that possibility.

The thing is against bad players eviscerate is strong, Its the same with backstab thiefs. As soon as people learn how to deal with those classes it turn way easier to fight.

I still dont get why people whine when they have very good / op skills on their side.

Do you really think it’s fair to compare a thief who has to use multiple skills AND has a positional requirement in order to produce that damage to a warrior who can strap on a blindfold and press f1 with his ckitten and still output more damage?

Totaly because.

1 – You can see the warrior since the beginning.
2 – You only fight the warrior (no AI) so you are not worry about pets CC or where would he attack.
3 – You can almost perma blind the warrior if you know what you are doing.
4 – Like Thiefs with backstab, warrior has to do a lot more than only use eviscerate to win. (again, against bads either classes only need to press some buttons).
5 – His gap closers are not ports and they do not blind the targets.

Sagat.3285:

silentnight warrior.2714:

MarauderShields.6830:

silentnight warrior.2714:

You dont have that problem with d/p.

Then the cooldown is 9 seconds.

Its way less than 9 seconds (the time you land your backstab till you have another one ready to be landed) but lets assume it is.

Its balanced right????

And dont forget that thiefs have multiple ways to enter stealth without using iniciative.

Multiple? If you mean SR 60 sec and Blinding Powder 40 sec then yeah it’s balanced or maybe stealing from another thief eh?

You already said three ways to enter stealth withou ini.. but there is more… keep looking

Shinjo.6092:

silentnight warrior.2714:

NinjaEd.3946:

Its a hella strong skill. Reason I question why all burst skills have a 10 second cooldown, as if they are balanced around that. cough combustive shot cough

So… What is the cooldown of backstab? or any thief skill?

It can potentially be infinity because you spent all your initiative trying to blind the warrior in a feeble attempt to avoid his 1.5k-3k autos and you weren’t able to stealth. And it still does less damage than eviscerate.

Mean while you are attaking with your auto that also does very nice damage and is quicker that warrior one and also can aply poison (d/p), you ckittene (are able to use) a leap that deals damage AND gives you stealth if you are inside the smoke field and backstab again. Repeat. The iniciative mechanic give thiefs that possibility.

The thing is against bad players eviscerate is strong, Its the same with backstab thiefs. As soon as people learn how to deal with those classes it turn way easier to fight.

I still dont get why people whine when they have very good / op skills on their side.

MarauderShields.6830:

silentnight warrior.2714:

You dont have that problem with d/p.

Then the cooldown is 9 seconds.

Its way less than 9 seconds (the time you land your backstab till you have another one ready to be landed) but lets assume it is.

Its balanced right????

And dont forget that thiefs have multiple ways to enter stealth without using iniciative.

NinjaEd.3946:

silentnight warrior.2714:

NinjaEd.3946:

Its a hella strong skill. Reason I question why all burst skills have a 10 second cooldown, as if they are balanced around that. cough combustive shot cough

So… What is the cooldown of backstab? or any thief skill?

The time it takes to re-enter stealth which in turn can be countered resulting in use of a long cooldown, which often means less methods of escape/dodge which often leads to immediate death. Once we trip its a quick fall down.

Also backstab has a lower power coefficient than eviscerate, and does fairly low damage if you don’t hit them from a flanking position which with even a little experience against stealth classes you can accomplish more times than not. We also have to sacrifice a ton of defenses to get those high numbers, so your point being?

My point is if a warrior builds has a thief (full zerker) to be able to land those eviscerates it is a lot more vulnerable than any zerker thief.

And again what is the cd of backstab? or smoke fields?

alchemyst.2165:

silentnight warrior.2714:

NinjaEd.3946:

Its a hella strong skill. Reason I question why all burst skills have a 10 second cooldown, as if they are balanced around that. cough combustive shot cough

So… What is the cooldown of backstab? or any thief skill?

At least 3 seconds, then we have to actually hit our CnD (which is a challenge in itself) then we have to actually hit your back (which is a challenge in itself) and if we don’t we waste 6 initiative yayy

You dont have that problem with d/p.

NinjaEd.3946:

Its a hella strong skill. Reason I question why all burst skills have a 10 second cooldown, as if they are balanced around that. cough combustive shot cough

So… What is the cooldown of backstab? or any thief skill?

The problem with thiefs for me is the instant gap closers they have along with the iniciative mechanic.
You are able to “guess” one gap closer and dodge it and right away they do it again with the same skill. Their iniciative mechanism is too forgiving and allow the use and abuse of blinds / ports.

The Thief one seems preety OP.

“Thief – Shadow Sanctuary
[Deception] You gain: +200 toughness, protection, regen, aegis and “health regen”. Blind foes around you. You are blinded as well, ends when you try to attack.

Cast time: instant
Duration: 6 seconds
Range: 600
Cooldown: 150 seconds
Note’s: “health regen” is equal to halve of the health regen a player would gain when he/she gets out of combat."

So you gain 200 toughness + 33% damage reduction from protection and you still have blind in a 600? range radius and aegis plus regeneration and “health regen”.

Instacast with 6 seconds duration?

With that elite thiefs wont need to hide anymore.

Aberrant.6749:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Aberrant.6749:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Aberrant.6749:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

This is like complaining that Ryu is OP because his DP is easy, he has a fireball and good normals, and it’s easy to combo into Ultra. That doesn’t make him OP just because he’s beginner friendly though.

…only that war is more like e-honda difficulty with his 100 hand slap… if e-honda could become immune to damage… and had projectiles that covered half the screen

Is that actually a thing people complain about? Honda sucks.

He wouldn’t if he could become immune to dmg and had massive aoe… aka I think you missed the point.

You mean like the warrior’s massive AOE projectiles?

I would call being able to put down an aoe that more than covers a point massive, yes.

He is talking about the only field warrior have.
Not about wells, traps and other fields stacked in the same spot other professions can do.

jportell.2197:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Carighan.6758:

I think as far as design goals go, Warriors are pretty good as a target.
They have:

• Ability to scale themselves all the way from very high damage to very tanky.
• Multiple ranged and melee options.
• Strong group support.
• Strong selfish setups.
• Useful in sPvP, WvW, PvE, open world, dungeons, everything. Never the wrong profession to bring.
• Stack well with themselves.
• Stack well with external support.

The only think missing is a clearly defined weakness for PvP reasons, IMO. Like Mesmers being rubbish around lots of AE because the illusions won’t even really spawn, Warriors need something to define their achilles heel. Doesn’t have to be terminal and doesn’t have to always be an issue (only in select cases), but yeah, something minor.

Their weakness used to be conditions and drawn-out fights, but the Warriors in sPvP QQ’d so much Anet destroyed their weakness. Now they have none.

This for the most part is true. Now if only Anet would listen to mesmers QQ about their condi problems and necros qq about getting pingponged all over the effing place.

The only profession i could remember that ANet really listen to the QQ of players was Mesmer. When ANet wanted to nerf DE but mesmers QQ so hard that ANet didn´t nerf the trait.

It was the only time i saw that happening.

More reasons to play Asura.

Ross Biddle.2367:

So what the OP is saying is: Now the warrior has immunity to forum based arguments as well.

Another buff for Warriors!

Its a new stance called “Ignore biased qq”.

Works great

“You are wrong DD ele was build to be fast.”

- Never said it wasn’t, so why i´m wrong?

“Warrior was built to engagé fast.”

- And to move fast, thats why they are able to use their movement skills without target.

“This was clearly original design that was reverted by other developers as it was profession descriptions and stuff.”

- Nothing to say here

“And just to answer you:
-RTL from 15 second 1500 range, became 40 second 1200 and has worst bug than rush
-Magnetic leap once used to escape the skill was completely redesigned to avoid it.
-Lightning Flash nerfed removing breakstun
-Conjure fiery GS cool an elite wich nly purpose is to escape and has a long casting skill”

- I didn’t ask this.

“As you see DD ele was designed to be mobile and nerfed into oblivion
I can t really see ANY other profession nerfed so hard as DD ele was in mobility.”

- Nothing to say here, still i dont see why Elementalists instead of asking ANET to revert the nerfs they are doing propaganda against warrior class (and not against thiefs).

“In the meantime both Warrior and Thief can move more than old DD ele.”

- Same as above

“Despite warrior healing is better than elementalist”.

- In what game?

“Its clear to see balance Bias when you see healing signet nerfed of 8% and RTL nerfed of 250% along other skill doing the same.”

- What Healing signet got to do with mobility?

“Not to mention signet of restoration in the past.”

- They reverted the nerf they made for PvP.

“But as someone said…ele can heal fast to 100% HP while warrior can heal only to 50%….. >_> (find the mistake).”

There is no mistake. If you remember well elementalist could bunker better than warriors and they give more suport also in the same time (and still can) with their low health pool.

a t s e.9614:

Liewec.2896:

the problem is that warrior is the noob class,
it is ridiculously easy to pick up and own faces without the need of any knowledge.

they have no fancy mechanics to learn.
this means that they have the lowest skill requirement but also the lowest skill cap,

in a 1v1:
a bad warrior will most likely beat a fairly good [other class],
a master warrior will most likely lose to a master [other class].

in high end tournaments warriors are still taken because they are very effective at team fights, between the heavy sustained aoe damage and the constantly chained AoE CCs (throw in the damage/condi immunitys, a condi clear every 7 seconds and the large passive regen) warriors are a nightmare in team fights.

That’s the thing, actually very few people are good at this game except for the top players who play in high end tournaments.

Game population is : at least 30% noobs 60% average players and only 10% that mastered their class. Therefore , any1 who doesn’t play warrior will get owned by warriors unless you are a top player.

Because its only 1 mistake and you are most likely going to die. Arcing arrow 5k crit, hammer skills 4-5k each and eviscerate 7-10k. Only a top player can dodge/avoid everything , an average player will make at least 1 mistake and will die from it.

Not quite so. Those builds have the same weakness Elementalist have – Boon removal. Remove / steal/ corrupt their boons and they dont hit that hard.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

Miss a dodge against a warrior = you are dead

Warrior stands still without dodging = signet will heal it up without you having to do anything

That only works if your average damage is less than 390 dps.

Chrispy.5641:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Nice post OP.
Just to add that warrior dont have the ability to lose target so they are always available to be hit by players. The absense of ports and weak access to blinds demand that warrior take all the damage while persuing their targets.
In the beginning (snare) was a huge weakness by it self (along with the other damage conditions) and ANet needed to buff warrior to allow them to keep up with their targets. Now warriors have “windows of oportunity” to do their things and that keeps them in the meta. As soon those windows close they are just like in the past, but this time their oponents need to play better than before.

Edit:

Just to had that Warrior damage comes from their weapons skills, not AI. When you have classes working with AI and they have much more time to prepare their defense while the AI does the damage from them, you start to realise why warrior needs to be the way it is.

Yeah, because AI pets in this game are so good(bad) at attacking moving targets, they are obviously superior(inferior) to your sweet, helpless, defenseless, perfectly balanced warriors who can attack moving targets.

Yea, the AI is so bad that ANet needed to nerf pirate runes. Makes perfect sense.

Nice post OP.
Just to add that warrior dont have the ability to lose target so they are always available to be hit by players. The absense of ports and weak access to blinds demand that warrior take all the damage while persuing their targets.
In the beginning (snare) was a huge weakness by it self (along with the other damage conditions) and ANet needed to buff warrior to allow them to keep up with their targets. Now warriors have “windows of oportunity” to do their things and that keeps them in the meta. As soon those windows close they are just like in the past, but this time their oponents need to play better than before.

Edit:

Just to had that Warrior damage comes from their weapons skills, not AI. When you have classes working with AI and they have much more time to prepare their defense while the AI does the damage from them, you start to realise why warrior needs to be the way it is.

Odik.4587:

silentnight warrior.2714:

If it is a bug they should fix it.

probably some1 dont have brain or trolling
ok remove stow weapon function from pvp ^^

I agre with your statement “probably some1 dont have brain or trolling”. Who talked about remove stow weapon in PvP?

I dont see the problem with rush.

Unlike Elementalists with RtL, Warriors only use rush to escape, not to enter combat (because its bugged realy hard). Even if the CD is increased to 40 sec if rush dont hit anything, warriors would still have good mobility to get away of combat if they change to sword after and using bulls charge.

If ANet changed the CD of rush to be on par with RtL (i dont think that they will ever do that before fix the skill first, and even then i have my doubts), what is the next thing people will try to nerf? Sword 2? Bulls charge? Our trait that removes immobilize?

Warrior was made to be fast with some weapons and was made to be slow with others.

Ele can have good mobility for chassing with D/D – Burning Speed / RtL / Magnetic Grasp and then Magnetic Leap / Lightning Flash / Conjure Fiery Greatsword (with Gap closers with low CD).

Or for escaping with D/D – Burning Speed / RtL / Lightning Flash / Conjure Fiery Greatsword (with Gap closers with low CD).

The problem with RtL was the amount of healing a Elementalist had when used RtL to run away – switch to water and heal amost to full heal and come back again to the fight in a few seconds. That was the real problem with RtL and thats why they nerf their way out. They can do it too but not as often as before.

If it is a bug they should fix it.

As long you remove the obvious animation to Earthshaker + Backbreaker + Staggering blow, make them quicker and change UF to work with dazes i would not have problems with your sugestion.

Now people can react to the Earthshaker + Backbreaker + Staggering blow combo just by using a stun break. You should try that.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Harper.4173:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Warriors are not the benchmark…Guardian is. It’s why you NEVER hear complaints about Guardian being too OP or too weak. They’re at that perfect spot.

So now people’s complaints are a exact and relevant metric to measure a class?

This makes me want to do a “study” on what class those that post Warrior QQ forums play. I have a hunch that it would be mostly Thief, they need to create a scapegoat so that they (namely S/D) doesn’t get too much attention.

“Yah! Lookit dat guy!” “Noh noh! don’t look over here, HE’S the problem!”

You nailed it.

Warrior is the benchmark profession for thief QQ to get attention away from their class.

Dont worry. Devs should also see that.

If people compare the others Greatsword against warriors GS they would realize that warrior have the hardest to use.

Ranger GS –
Got a leap with lesser CD than warrior
Got evade built in the auto attack
Got CC to help with attacks
Got a block to defense (and the evades from auto)
Got a skill to apply vulnerability

Its way more complete than warrior GS and easier to use because gives a way for the target stay there and gives bonnus to the pet while attacking after using de CC.

Guardian GS

Got a auto that gives might
Got a Skill that pushes foes to him
Got a gap closer that blinds on impact
Got a symbol that gives retaliation and vulnerability.
Got a powerfull spin attack

Even more simple to use than the ranger GS. The Guardian GS offers what you need to unload your burst in the target by it self.

In the end warrior GS is more mobile than the others GS but also does a lot less.

You cannot use hundred blades only with GS. You need immo or CC to use, so in order to be effective warriors need other weapon to be able to use his burst capabilities.

In the end all classes are diferent and they need diferent stuff.

Totaly agree. Comparing classes with diferent mechanics dont make sense at all.

Razor.6392:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Well you can try to see that question from the point of view of other professions.
What is the cooldown of stealth? Its way lower than 10 seconds. Why did ANet do that? Why they let one of the biggest offensive/defensive mechanism have that short cooldown?
Because the professions who use them need them and their utilities/skills work around that mechanism (along others).
Same with mesmers, what is the cooldown for creating ilusions? The mesmers need their ilusions and their skills/utilities work around that mechanism.
Warriors without burst skills would lack Control or damage in their weapon skills. If the cooldown of burst skills is increased then warrior weapons skills needed to be changed a little to face that change.

Having such low cooldown on abilities trivializes the possibility of misusing them.

Missed your 9k damage eviscerate? It’s ok, you can try again in 8~ seconds.

Thieves require a previous setup and they don’t have stuns on demand or 24k vitality :|

So what is the penalty from missing a backstab? Or a mesmer shatter? As a thief you are not revealed if you miss/block. You miss and try again. There is no penalty for that.
And if you are revealed you just have to wait 3 or 4 seconds to vanish again.
Do you miss a gap closer as a thief? do it again right away.
You miss a shatter as a mesmer? Do it again, DE have no cooldown.

Also thiefs have stuns/daze on demand. I use them often.
Also you cannot have 8 seconds burst cooldown on warrior without setup and you need even more setup with runes/sigils to do damage (same as thief).

Razor.6392:

Yeah, that too. They have individual cooldowns. Kind of mind blowing…

Same with mesmers shatters, guardian virtues and so on…

Well you can try to see that question from the point of view of other professions.
What is the cooldown of stealth? Its way lower than 10 seconds. Why did ANet do that? Why they let one of the biggest offensive/defensive mechanism have that short cooldown?
Because the professions who use them need them and their utilities/skills work around that mechanism (along others).
Same with mesmers, what is the cooldown for creating ilusions? The mesmers need their ilusions and their skills/utilities work around that mechanism.
Warriors without burst skills would lack Control or damage in their weapon skills. If the cooldown of burst skills is increased then warrior weapons skills needed to be changed a little to face that change.

NinjaEd.3946:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

there is nothing wrong with healing signet, it is working as intended.
it is a signet, and signet have strong passive effects.

warrior are intended, designed to face tank damage with healing signet along others because they do not have active access to aegis, stealth, chaos armor, illusions, death shroud, turrets, minions, infinite evades etc.

seriously, play a warrior in team arena at least 100 times before anyone of you warrior hater comes in here to comment further on healing signet.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Mercy

And the ToL showed us just how important warrior is. It’s not paranoia, its fact.

Also I doubt the entire warrior class was designed to have only healing signet. Sorry, but arguing the balance of HS by saying they deserve to face tank with it is no argument at all. Even with no healing power gear HS does a far better job than the others, and the mentality to never use the active of healing signet just further shows how strong the passive is.

Can you link the video of ToL? The one i saw showed warrior being important as other classes there.

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/523635495

Talking about passive gameplay:

Warrior is the class with less passive gameplay. The diference between warrior and the other professionsis the type of passive gameplay they have.

Warrior have a good passive sustain, they dont have passive offense game play.
Other classes have a good (very good) passive attack (spirit rangers / mm necro / decap engineer / phantasm mesmer).
Others have good / very good passive sustain (PU mesmers) and still got a decent / good passive attack at the same time.

Warrior HS is fine as long there are condition spam in this game and we have classes that let AI do the job for them.

When all those passives are put in line, HS can be as well.

Right now that cannot be done.

Other thing. I do not play with HS in WvW. I use defiant stance just because i am completely destroyed with the amount of damage zergs can dish in few seconds. HS in that situation is bad. So HS is not the only choice for warriors.
I only use HS in PvP because the numbers there are much lower than in WvW and if i pop up defiant stance there people just stop attacking.

They fixed a bug. Nothing more.

The skill says you SWAP places with your clone. How can you swap with the clone if the clone was already dead? Doesn´t make sense at all.

Now the funny part: If people still want to swap with the clone after being destroied, they can make another description to the skill.
“SWAP places with your clone, if your clone was already dead, you bring him back to life and you are downed.”

Dirame.8521:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Imo, doesn´t exist a viable build for sPvP without longbow. Hambow / A/S – Longbow/ S/S – Longbow. They are viable just because you got longbow.

There are other builds but till now but they are easely countered by good players.

But i would like to be full melee and viable. If anyone got a viable warrior build without longbow post it.

Why? Because people don’t stand outside the burning field and just range people down?

Because Longbow is the only reliable way to use CI. Longbow burst skill and skill 3 gives you might while doing damage to stealth players nearby and AI like turrets / clones / pets. It also have a immobilize that you can use to hit with your other burst skills (like axe f1).

There are other builds that work but they are not viable. Its like the PU mesmer. Very strong but not viable when you want to reach other levels.

Well thats my opinion.

As i said above, if there are viable pvp warrior builds without longbow post them here.

If the phantasm only attacked once but they were invulnerable in that attack the mesmers wouldn´t have those issues in WvW. After the attack they could be shattered right away for more AoE damage. That way GS/Staff would got some good AoE.

Imo, doesn´t exist a viable build for sPvP without longbow. Hambow / A/S – Longbow/ S/S – Longbow. They are viable just because you got longbow.

There are other builds but till now but they are easely countered by good players.

But i would like to be full melee and viable. If anyone got a viable warrior build without longbow post it.

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Shockwave.1230:

Now you can see how rediculous some of the listed opposing view points are, but some are not rediculous, yet they’re all valid in some way.

The point is that when people provide ways to counter stealth, it’s because there actually are ways to counter stealth.

The only thing I see is the absence of comprehension on your behalf. The thing is its not my view point, since what I’m saying is objective not subjective. Its based solely upon what the definition of counter is not what I “think” or “feel” it is. The list you made is completely subjective since its based upon your own personal interpretation of what a counter means.

Its a fact that all of the mechanics I listed stand on the opposite end of the spectrum of their counter parts. It doesn’t matter how you say they are applied, the only thing that does matter is that there are mechanics in place that balance out each other by providing the opposite effect.

Going by the “definition” of counter, not your own personal interpretation of the meaning. Show me how anything you listed is even roughly related to it.

Okay if you’d like to look at everything in a silo then my argument is that stealth does nothing by itself except put you at a disadvantage of not being able to interact with objectives.

Therefore stealth is actually a debuff.

This is irrelevant because you are shifting the discussion from the mechanic itself to things outside of it such as objectives or your personal opinion that its a debuff. Looking at the mechanic itself, illustrate how any of what you listed in your previous reply fits the definition of a counter.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/counter

If you like to know what the hard counter to stealth is those are

• Stealth by itself (as the play in stealth is less useful than when they are out of stealth)
• Revealed

And there’s the list of other counters that I previously mentioned, such as Invincibility or blocks, or blinds, since stealth by itself is actually a debuff and is useful for creating an opportunity deal damage.

The only real counter to stealth is the stealth traps in WvW and a ranger skill that i doubt that anyone uses.

Every other “counters” are realy a work around because there is no counters….

Wyrden.4713:

if warrior looses 25-50% of his health upon using a stance, then k.

stealth is counterable with aoe, not so in wvw but in pvp, in wvw if u see thiefs escaping its ur win

what really is uncounterable is are stances, i mean, its ‘tap 1 button to be immune for 4(can even be friggin traited) seconds, or immune to condis for 8 seconds,’ well pls, where is counterplay to that? anything besides thief has kind of hard time dealing with these stances, mesmers? so ye they could use their stealth, but as one of them is their utility and stunbreak, it would be a huge sacrifice, torch, not everyone takes torch, and if he takes torch , it could always be on cooldown swap, elite possible,veil? i have yet so see someone take it as raomer or in s/tpvp

so about stances still: they can camp a point without taking any dmg for 9 seconds(talking about pvp) , stance + shield5 , thats hilariously insane.. u got no idea how hard it is to deal with them.

Actualy every stance have counters.

One takes conditional damage and all CC, another you take physical damage and hard CC, other gives you stability that can be stolen/riped and you take all tipe of damage and the last one makes you attack faster but you take more damage of any kind.
And if they use 3 of them togeteher? Just back off/port/stealth/evade and come back after 5 seconds.

Stances have more “counters” than stealth.

So its easy to “counter” stealth and blinds and its not easy to “counter” warrior stances?
And you main a warrior?
Warrior Stances dont do anything to any class, they just negate some kind of damage/control.
CI is not that good against power builds and with the exception of longbow you can prevent the warrior to use it.
If you cannot work around that it is realy a l2p issue.
I got all professions and I get faster to my target and i kill him faster as a thief, and it dont take skill to do that. (i usualy play with d/p)

There are situations when thief require skill to play but warrior is the same. Against noobs you can just spam skills on the two professions.

By the way d/p thiefs use black powder a lot to blind while attacking. If the target leaves they just stealth and then backstab.

Bombsaway.7198:

Idea:

All light fields have a red circle.
If thief enters a light field, he gets revealed after X seconds regardless of if he attacks.

Get in quick and attack.

Thats a good sugestion.

Example:
Shadow refuge: pulses stealth and heals.
Counters: knocking a thief out with a knockback or launch will reveal anyone inside.

Counter the counter: Evade / dodge the knockback or launch.

Yes i already notice that. When the player is in combat the AI should stay in combat too.

Not sure if you are not troling but stances should not give reveal. Its too much for a stance. Warrior stances are good in some situations and they are easy to counter/avoid when you use them wrong and thats how they should stay.

What the game needs its real counters to stealth. If warrior for some reason get one skill to counter stealth it should not be on stances.

I would like that in Physical Utilities, like stomp.

Romek.4201:

berserker stance should have some risk too

an 100% imunity to conditions should have something like get +20-50% more physical dmg in this time

so warriorz have to use brain sometimes

Berserker stance is not immune to direct damage and hard CC.

As a ranger you can use your knock backs, invisibility, pet CC, evades. That depends on the build. If the warrior uses is stance when you have your skills on cd, that shows he knows your class and knows what to do to counter your build.
You can do the same to him. Just see what he can do with that build and know when to give pressure and when to back off.
I´ve seen really good rangers out there in pvp destroing warriors 1v1.

Hitman.5829:

Warriors need to be stable, they need to be on their feet to do damage. However, currently the only stability that they can access comes from utilities such as:

• signet of dolyak (60 sec cooldown)
• Balance stance (40 sec cooldown)

This means that warriors are most of the time unstable.

My suggestion is to make the shield skills give a stability boon. That would make sense since your shield is your way of survival. If you look at the shield skills they are very unimpressive and dull for a shield.

Warriors dont need more stability (you also have a trait that gives that). If ANet for some reason gives more stability to warriors, other sources of stability will have their durations shorter. More sources, less duration on each one.