Guild Wars 2

Romek.4201:

they dont nerf warrior – they fix them

As they will fix all other classes.
Beside peope forget what the devs said about they being alert about the true warrior bunker builds and probably some damage will be reduced in those builds, but HS will stay.

Edit: The changes to pin down shows that aproach. It will be harder to land pin down.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Strong skills should be more telegraphed. That’s just how it is.

Skills like backstab?
Lightning Strike?
Power Lock

Do you want to bet that after the nerf people will still QQ about Pin Down?

Every AI build shouldn’t be viable on PvP but very good on PvE. Sooner or later ANet will fix that.
Right now you dont PvP.

Rezzet.3614:

tom.7468:

Without healing signet they are nothing!. If you cant out damage 400 hp/s then you should reconsider you’re build. They have no protection, no stealth,no pets etc.
It take skill to play warrior. At least in wvw, Its do or die. They have little room for error.

thats precisely the problem how do you deal 800 damage per second on a warrior with 3500-4000 armor /try mixin zerker gear with cavalier you ll lose crit but you ll have as much power and crit damage as berserker

and yeah its not 400hp per second people have to deal with when 15 points in defense nets you Adrenal health an additional 300+ healing per second and if you want to have overkill tankyness 30 points in tactics for healing shouts for an additional 2-3k heals you can use without sacrificing your regen’s passive

Just to say that Adrenal health trigers once every 3 seconds, not every second.

Arlette.9684:

WorthlessProtoplasm.5609:

80 Warrior here. Healing Signet is bananas; it’s a crutch and it leads me to play counterintuitively.

Sadly your compadres and Jon Peters (the Chuck Norris of all Warriors) disagrees with you. If anything Healing Signet needs to be buffed if you ask them.

Actually he said that the passive needs to be nerfed but the active should be buffed. Fair enough for me.

Black Box.9312:

Atherakhia.4086:

KrisHQ.4719:

silentnight warrior.2714:

KrisHQ.4719:

Harper.4173:

KrisHQ.4719:

Just make Healing Signet scale with Healing Power. The base should be much lower than now, and with 800-1000 Healing Power it should have the same effect as now.
But. This will create another problem? Healing Signet will now be useless since nobody specs Healing Power with a Warrior.
You’re right. Well, that is accounted for. The game should be balanced so that sturdy builds are sturdy and offensive builds are offensive (dat logic).
Making it scale with Healing Power solves the problem with offensive builds being tanky, and still enables the Warrior to spec defensively and become sturdy.
But the clever still knows there is a problem. Healing Signet will now become useless for offensive builds. Fortunately, there is a solution to that as well.
The Active ability of Healing Signet should simply benefit DPS builds. This could be done by making it grant:
Lifesteal and Quickness for a short period of time.
Daze your opponent on the next 3 attacks while gaining health.
Grant super-speed and a percentage amount of health based upon the distance traveled.
I just came up with these on the spot, I’m sure I or someone else can come up with better ideas, however the solution is pretty much solid.
The important thing is that the active heal has counter-play to some extend, and that the active ability is beneficial to offensive builds.

You do realize that John said they don’t want to reduce the passive because it was basically created to give the warriors their class’ particular feel.
And more importantly to give sustain to more offense oriented warriors right?!

He didn’t want to unless the active ability was changed, which I guess to some extend is fair. People need to realize something, and I will make it very simple:
The amount of passive healing alone is not the problem, the problem is that the Healing Signet is providing incredible sustain while speccing full beserker and dealing HUGE amounts of dmg.
Warrior’s have other issues as well, but not as major as this one.
This problem also applies to a lot of other professions, kitten as Necromancers doing Condi-Burst while using defensive trinkets.
This needs to change, or whatever happens there will still be problems.
So: The current heals might not work the way I described, but they should.

The problem is also people thinking that a full berserker warrior is a warrior with at least 20 points in defense and with all defensive stances on the utilities slots.

Except full berserker refers to the Amulet, and not the traits or utilities. So yes, a full beserker warrior can deal huge amounts of dmg while still retaining one of the highest sustained heals in the game. It’s better than Virtue Of Resolve even while traited and specced full Clerics.

@Arlette
I don’t see how that’s not EXACTLY what I just wrote.
I simply suggested a fix, which would still allow Warriors to spec for a lot of passive healing if they wanted to.

Spec and utilities have everything to do with it though. A Warrior in berserker gear running without cleansing ire, adrenal health, and at least 2 stances is a free kill to nearly every other meta class out there.

It’s nice to pretend 150 armor and 3.2k health is enough to make a difference, but a Warrior not spec’d to bunker is about as effective as any other class not spec’d to bunker.

That’s completely irrelevant. No class should be able to bunker with full offensive gear, regardless of trait spec.

I´ve seen zerker mesmers and thiefs guarding points. They simply fight in another ways. I believe you mean that no class with zerker gear should have surviability. I agree with you in that point.

KrisHQ.4719:

silentnight warrior.2714:

KrisHQ.4719:

Harper.4173:

KrisHQ.4719:

Just make Healing Signet scale with Healing Power. The base should be much lower than now, and with 800-1000 Healing Power it should have the same effect as now.
But. This will create another problem? Healing Signet will now be useless since nobody specs Healing Power with a Warrior.
You’re right. Well, that is accounted for. The game should be balanced so that sturdy builds are sturdy and offensive builds are offensive (dat logic).
Making it scale with Healing Power solves the problem with offensive builds being tanky, and still enables the Warrior to spec defensively and become sturdy.
But the clever still knows there is a problem. Healing Signet will now become useless for offensive builds. Fortunately, there is a solution to that as well.
The Active ability of Healing Signet should simply benefit DPS builds. This could be done by making it grant:
Lifesteal and Quickness for a short period of time.
Daze your opponent on the next 3 attacks while gaining health.
Grant super-speed and a percentage amount of health based upon the distance traveled.
I just came up with these on the spot, I’m sure I or someone else can come up with better ideas, however the solution is pretty much solid.
The important thing is that the active heal has counter-play to some extend, and that the active ability is beneficial to offensive builds.

You do realize that John said they don’t want to reduce the passive because it was basically created to give the warriors their class’ particular feel.
And more importantly to give sustain to more offense oriented warriors right?!

He didn’t want to unless the active ability was changed, which I guess to some extend is fair. People need to realize something, and I will make it very simple:
The amount of passive healing alone is not the problem, the problem is that the Healing Signet is providing incredible sustain while speccing full beserker and dealing HUGE amounts of dmg.
Warrior’s have other issues as well, but not as major as this one.
This problem also applies to a lot of other professions, kitten as Necromancers doing Condi-Burst while using defensive trinkets.
This needs to change, or whatever happens there will still be problems.
So: The current heals might not work the way I described, but they should.

The problem is also people thinking that a full berserker warrior is a warrior with at least 20 points in defense and with all defensive stances on the utilities slots.

Except full berserker refers to the Amulet, and not the traits or utilities. So yes, a full beserker warrior can deal huge amounts of dmg while still retaining one of the highest sustained heals in the game. It’s better than Virtue Of Resolve even while traited and specced full Clerics.

@Arlette
I don’t see how that’s not EXACTLY what I just wrote.

A full berserker warrior traits/gears for power/prec/crit. And in traits and utilities takes what he need to deal more damage.

Ofc i understant your point. just dont agree with the definition…

Black Box.9312:

silentnight warrior.2714:

The problem is also people thinking that a full berserker warrior is a warrior with at least 20 points in defense and with all defensive stances on the utilities slots.

Berserker is a gear setup and has nothing to do with traits or utilities.

That is zerker gear. Not a full berserker warrior

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I have no idea if this was covered in the 6 pages, but I’m just going to throw this out there as food for thought (disclaimer, I don’t main a war, but have one at level 80 kitted out with clerics gear)

I mention how my war is armored for a reason that i hope will be clear as it pertains to this thread. I run banners (3 including elite) with wider area and healing, with LB and sword/axe/WH. WH does the removal of condi for ppl and my banners cover a nice area for regen for the zerg with a handy group rez when things get hot. Between them and my signet/adrenal healing and a few judicious dodges I can talk A LOT of damage. Ad to that the blind from the bow and its fairly hard to hurt me most of the time unless I get REALLY focused down, and in a zerg that’s kinda hard to do sometimes. Here’s the thing though. On my guardian, i can spec for some great healing and support, but i will be doing crap damage at best with some moderate crowd control. If i spec him for damage, the support will suffer to some degree. On my war, with the signet the way it is, and then bolstered by my banners I can spec to heal a ton of damage, but i am also able to dish out a fair amount of it. In a large group I can be a double threat just by using that signet and its passive heal.

With guardian you can provide better AoE healing, better area denial, better group dps by giving might and retalliation to allies. Warrior stands in a middle ground, not that great for AoE healing but better damage.

KrisHQ.4719:

Harper.4173:

KrisHQ.4719:

Just make Healing Signet scale with Healing Power. The base should be much lower than now, and with 800-1000 Healing Power it should have the same effect as now.
But. This will create another problem? Healing Signet will now be useless since nobody specs Healing Power with a Warrior.
You’re right. Well, that is accounted for. The game should be balanced so that sturdy builds are sturdy and offensive builds are offensive (dat logic).
Making it scale with Healing Power solves the problem with offensive builds being tanky, and still enables the Warrior to spec defensively and become sturdy.
But the clever still knows there is a problem. Healing Signet will now become useless for offensive builds. Fortunately, there is a solution to that as well.
The Active ability of Healing Signet should simply benefit DPS builds. This could be done by making it grant:
Lifesteal and Quickness for a short period of time.
Daze your opponent on the next 3 attacks while gaining health.
Grant super-speed and a percentage amount of health based upon the distance traveled.
I just came up with these on the spot, I’m sure I or someone else can come up with better ideas, however the solution is pretty much solid.
The important thing is that the active heal has counter-play to some extend, and that the active ability is beneficial to offensive builds.

You do realize that John said they don’t want to reduce the passive because it was basically created to give the warriors their class’ particular feel.
And more importantly to give sustain to more offense oriented warriors right?!

He didn’t want to unless the active ability was changed, which I guess to some extend is fair. People need to realize something, and I will make it very simple:
The amount of passive healing alone is not the problem, the problem is that the Healing Signet is providing incredible sustain while speccing full beserker and dealing HUGE amounts of dmg.
Warrior’s have other issues as well, but not as major as this one.
This problem also applies to a lot of other professions, kitten as Necromancers doing Condi-Burst while using defensive trinkets.
This needs to change, or whatever happens there will still be problems.
So: The current heals might not work the way I described, but they should.

The problem is also people thinking that a full berserker warrior is a warrior with at least 20 points in defense and with all defensive stances on the utilities slots.

Mightymealworm.8409:

Atherakhia.4086:

No other heal in the game works this way so using this approach only for Warriors is silly. It has already been shown that Healing Signet alone isn’t that much more powerful than other heals in the game. Dropping the HPS by only 50 puts it in line with other powerful heals. Does anyone here legitimately think a 50HPS drop will scratch the surface of what’s going on right now with Warriors? Because if not, I’d argue perhaps the problem isn’t Healing Signet at all at that point.

Dropping healing signet by 50 a second is still 7000 health every 20 seconds. What other healing skills is that in line with?

Troll Unguent gives 8500 every 25 seconds, 340 hps. For the ranger and his pet.

My others ideias:

As the Dev said, warrior will have the passive efect of HS nerfed a little and the active part buffed, or at least they will give to the signet some reason to be activated.

1) Decrease the passive Healing:

- 0 adrenaline 250 hps
– 1 adrenaline 300 hps
– 2 adrenaline 350 hps
– 3 adrenaline 400 hps

(between the use of burst skills for damage/clearing conditions, warriors will have less sustain than now, because they will not gain 400hps all the time)

Active part:

1) Heals the same but for one second for each bar of adrenaline you cannot be snared. (only snared).

2) Heals the same but for one second for each bar of adrenaline reflects projectils.

3) Heals the same but for one second for each bar of adrenaline you chill the foes around you for 1 second/bar of adrenaline.

You want to give might to ranged weapons?

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Its not hard to balance the signet.

Let it work with adrenaline and give a bonus when activate the signet.

0 adrenaline 250 hps
1 adrenaline 300 hps
2 adrenaline 350 hps
3 adrenaline 400 hps

What this does:
Someone who is always using burst skills will have less healing (you do damage you have less sustain). This also work the other way, If someone is attaking the warrior, he is refiling the warrior adrenaline (assuming he is using cleansing ire) and gives sustain to the warrior when he needs the sustain.

Now the active part: The heal could stay the same if the active is good enough. My sugestions:

1) Halve the cooldown of the stances. (This means if a warrior use a stance and want that stance as soon as possible he will use the signet right away, leaving him without the passive efect of HS for about 16/20 seconds.)

2) Recharge of physical skills.

3) Recharge of banners (This would be very usefful when using Battle Standard (only one banner of each kind can give the bonus)).

4) Recharge all shouts (will make the warrior to make a choice if he want the passive healing or he want the heal+clean condition from shouts)

5) Recharge of weapons skills (with this if the warrior choose to make damage, he will loose sustain.

6) Recharge of the elite skill. (More usefull with Battle Standard)

7) Active part: Increase the casting time: While casting the signet, make it to reflect the damage to the source. The heal remains the same. (This will make the warrior to choose to activate the signet if he can predict a burst from one enemy player. The enemy player can see the animation and choose not to attack.

As soon i get more ideias i will post them here.

Oh please, adrenaline fills up so quick it’s not even funny.

It fills up so quick because of cleansing ire. And cleansing ire gives 1 adrenaline for each hit the warrior takes, so it will work great on points where everybody drop wells, bombs, traps, multi hit fields (Fire and forget skills). It works great against AI builds such as MM Necros, spirit rangers and mesmers. It looses potential on 1v1 fights.

Other builds without Cleansing Ire would also have the sustain droped.

I´m not seing your problem.

Its not hard to balance the signet.

Let it work with adrenaline and give a bonus when activate the signet.

0 adrenaline 250 hps
1 adrenaline 300 hps
2 adrenaline 350 hps
3 adrenaline 400 hps

What this does:
Someone who is always using burst skills will have less healing (you do damage you have less sustain). This also work the other way, If someone is attaking the warrior, he is refiling the warrior adrenaline (assuming he is using cleansing ire) and gives sustain to the warrior when he needs the sustain.

Now the active part: The heal could stay the same if the active is good enough. My sugestions:

1) Halve the cooldown of the stances. (This means if a warrior use a stance and want that stance as soon as possible he will use the signet right away, leaving him without the passive efect of HS for about 16/20 seconds.)

2) Recharge of physical skills.

3) Recharge of banners (This would be very usefful when using Battle Standard (only one banner of each kind can give the bonus)).

4) Recharge all shouts (will make the warrior to make a choice if he want the passive healing or he want the heal+clean condition from shouts)

5) Recharge of weapons skills (with this if the warrior choose to make damage, he will loose sustain.

6) Recharge of the elite skill. (More usefull with Battle Standard)

7) Active part: Increase the casting time: While casting the signet, make it to reflect the damage to the source. The heal remains the same. (This will make the warrior to choose to activate the signet if he can predict a burst from one enemy player. The enemy player can see the animation and choose not to attack.

As soon i get more ideias i will post them here.

Void.4239:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Lets imagine one thing. Warrior with berserker stance up and healing signet active and 1 or 2 engineers nuke the point. That warrior is going down = no invul. The same hapens with the other stances. Fight a necro with only endure pain and healing signet = you will get damage. Now do the same with other classes invulnerability and doesn`t matter how many are attaking or the tipe of damage they are using because none of de damage will get you. And that its the diference from other invul skill to warrior imunities.
I agree with you when warrior uses all stances at the same time = invulnerability for 4-5 seconds and in that time they should not cap. Other than that i cannot see any comparison with the other invul skills.

^^ you kidding wright ?

If the warrior uses his stances wrong then he should die.
Who in his wright mind would pop endure pain against condi classes , and bezerker stance against power classes ? ( a tad smarter person would do it the other way around.)

I kinda find it hilarious that warriors are being so scarred about this topic.
Its a small adjustment, that would not break warrior at all. But still a lot of scarred negative reactions from warriors on something that wont change that much for them.

Just shows how mature most warrior players are.
And how important balance is for them in this game. ( sarcastic if you cant sense it )
Not speaking about all warriors here , there still a few good warriors out there that know how cheez there character really is, and they are mostly the once trying to play without the cheezy aspects of the warrior atm.

I´m glad because you get the point. “If the warrior uses his stances wrong then he should die.”
Stances are not invulnerabilities, even with HS. Lets say i run a full zerker warrior (no points in defense or vitality) and i take two stances. Those stances dont give me invulnerability and i still will have the non-decap (doesn´t make any sense).
Other classes have true invulnerabilities in one skill. They are imune to ALL damage by only pressing one button. Thats why while invul you cannot cap points. And that why i said if warrior uses all 3 stances together (gaining true invulnerability) he should not cap or decap. I actualy was agreing with you but only when warrior is invulnerable and that only hapens when warriors pop up the 3 stances together.
While invulnerable you cannot take damage from any source or being CC.
With endure pain you are CC and get conditions.
With berserker stance you are CC and get physical damage.
With Balanced Stance you get damage from all sources but you are not CC.
With all three you are invulnerable for 5 sec max. In those 5 seconds warriors should not cap or decap.

Yes i agree that teleport skills are an issue in this game. Looking forward for your next sugestions.

Void.4239:

Nhalx.9735:

Void.4239:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Void.4239:

silentnight warrior.2714:

I actualy could agree with that in the time the warrior has all stances active. That gives 5 sec max every minute.

Did you read the part of how healing signet kinda makes the semi invulnerable => full invulnerable ? If you facing a 1 vs 1.

It would add a bit more thinking of when to pop stances, => risk vs reward

1) they risk dieing if they want to keep the point(reward),
2) they wont die( less risk ) but wont be able to hold points ( less rewards )

That its not invulnerability and we know that sooner or later HS will be nerfed, so that aproach will be even worst for warriors.
If that aproach risk vs reward is done to all classes then i can agree (ofc only seing the classes afected and how). Only to warrior no.

risk vs reward is already dont to the other classes …. ( only warrior does not have it yet )
Invulnerability does not let you cap/ decap
Stealth does not let you cap/ decap

But somehow warriors are allowed to have semi invulnerability’s with a passive healing able to heal up the low damage from the secondary damage source of your opponent.

• Endure pain + healing signet = imune to burst specs ( even there low damage condi’s )

• bzerker stance + healing signet = imune to condition specs ( even the low pure power dps those specs still have )

• in teamfights they pop both when focussed and are imune to all damage from your full party while able to cap/decap points.

Its either all classes get to cap/decap while invuln. Or no1 should.

yet that’s not the problem with warriors.
Sacrificing utility for that leaves the blank for other useful utilities.
A mesmer gets it on the fly. a Guardian gets it on his elite.

Just running endure pain allows condis to still be applied. Berserker stance needs another slot gives adrenaline and makes you immune to condis but it doesnt to burst damage.

The real problem comes down to the fact they have amazing removal through cleansing ire on a really, really really short cooldown.
With suspecible short cooldown stuns on a swap.

Like why would it even matter to another class if i would take immunity? as soon as its gone im in trouble.

There’s plenty of other targets to go for,

ele / engy also have it as utility and wont allow them to cap/decap
warriors have it as utility and traits ….. and allows them to cap/ decap…………………….

In those 5 secs that you are invulnerable a good player will make there opponents go from the offense to a defense playstyle, and once you have to go play defensive against a warrior he already won cause most defensive playstyles cant out damage healing signet.

i’m not saying that warriors dont have other issues that need to be resolved.
I’m just pointing out that stances need to be looked at to cause of there semi invulnerability that becomes a “full invulnerability” with healing signet.

It’s not that it would break warriors, it would bring them on par with the rest of the characters concerning the cap/decap while invuln.

But i understand that warriors dont want to loos there advantages toward other characters that are not allowed those advantages. Even small corrections like this.

Lets imagine one thing. Warrior with berserker stance up and healing signet active and 1 or 2 engineers nuke the point. That warrior is going down = no invul. The same hapens with the other stances. Fight a necro with only endure pain and healing signet = you will get damage. Now do the same with other classes invulnerability and doesn`t matter how many are attaking or the tipe of damage they are using because none of de damage will get you. And that its the diference from other invul skill to warrior imunities.
I agree with you when warrior uses all stances at the same time = invulnerability for 4-5 seconds and in that time they should not cap. Other than that i cannot see any comparison with the other invul skills.

Void.4239:

silentnight warrior.2714:

I actualy could agree with that in the time the warrior has all stances active. That gives 5 sec max every minute.

Did you read the part of how healing signet kinda makes the semi invulnerable => full invulnerable ? If you facing a 1 vs 1.

It would add a bit more thinking of when to pop stances, => risk vs reward

1) they risk dieing if they want to keep the point(reward),
2) they wont die( less risk ) but wont be able to hold points ( less rewards )

That its not invulnerability and we know that sooner or later HS will be nerfed, so that aproach will be even worst for warriors.
If that aproach risk vs reward is done to all classes then i can agree (ofc only seing the classes afected and how). Only to warrior no.

Void.4239:

jayson.6512:

Warrior are always OP for the noobs. Even before the patch for Healing signet , Berserker Stance , Cleansing Ire , Dogged March , Destruction of the empowered , Burst Mastery every time i read the forum they always say Warriors OP but after playing it, it’s not really that OP like they said the truth is other players who said it’s OP usually those guys who wants their 1 build to face roll every classes builds just like other korean MMO where you can rush and kill every class spamm every skills you have on your skill bar.
like this guy i fought in solo pvp i’m using a hammer and we all know that hammer is easy to dodge this guy is not dodging and i’m like wtf he eats all my hammer attack and mace attack then told me your class is OP. and for those people that QQ about hammer stun thank you because now hammer is nerf well their reason is 4 warriors in tpvp are OP but 4 minion master and 1 spirt rangers or 4 mesmer with illusions and clones is not that’s logic i don’t know why anet listen to those QQ in this forum maybe they are scared to lose players, but i agree LB is OP just a tip if you see a hammer warrior DODGE don’t go here in the forums and ask for nerf noobs.

How many stuns do you have on warrior , how many times can a person dodge ?
If you blow all dodges on hammer , how easy will it be to avoid pin down ?
Now say sry for your " dodge it excuse "

That works for every profession.

Nice sugestions. The HS sugestion works for me and the other on pin down its a good one too. I will be waiting for the other sugestions.

Edit: It could be a null-cap If the warrior uses all his stances together (gaining invulnerabilty, so null – cap)

I actualy could agree with that in the time the warrior has all stances active. That gives 5 sec max every minute.

jportell.2197:

silentnight warrior.2714:

jportell.2197:

Geff.1930:

Warriors are not the only culprit. All characters are on the same boat. Minion and Condi necros can build tanky and dish out a lot of damage. Tanky condi Mesmers can build tanky and rely on confusion. Also, Spirit Rangers.

Confusion mesmer in pvp…..
el
oh
el

Yea i know… it works

A condition build that revolves around one condition is garbage. Confusion in PvP is terrrible. Mesmer access to confusion has also been nerfed several times most significantly the blinding befuddlement nerf.
A strictly confusion mesmer in pvp has never been viable because the only class that has the worst condi clear is mesmer…. every other class can clear that one condition EASSSYYY.

Only on one condition you are right. Didn´t get that one.

jportell.2197:

Geff.1930:

Warriors are not the only culprit. All characters are on the same boat. Minion and Condi necros can build tanky and dish out a lot of damage. Tanky condi Mesmers can build tanky and rely on confusion. Also, Spirit Rangers.

Confusion mesmer in pvp…..
el
oh
el

Yea i know… it works

ahuba.6430:

why is a thread with such stupid trait swapping suggestions getting so much feedback?

This tread is not the only case of “stupid trait swapping suggestions” treads on the forums.

Archaon.6245:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Qaelyn.7612:

Warriors are OP, period. There’s something severely messed up when a class/build so easy to play can completely shut down other characters. The combination of offense, CC and defense is simply over the top.

The nerfs last patch were a good start, but there’s a long way to go. It would be nice to play a game without 1 or 2 of every single team having someone mindlessly hammer-swinging his way to victory.

So you want teams without warriors… gotcha

Now start to think about teams without guards, thiefs, rangers… You got a long road to go.

Already many teams without thieves and rangers (You can even replace both with warriors and more warriors atm)…guard still needed for teamfights since is the best team support class (But can’t do kitten alone)…so what’s exactly your point here?

Qaelyn said this:
“It would be nice to play a game without 1 or 2 of every single team.” = no warriors in tPvP.
I know to some classes to enter, some must leave… I know that.

I can see the hiden agenda…

My opinion is HS passive should be nerfed (scalling better with healing and the active heal buffed, plus a activation bonus, (refresh stances/banners/shouts/physical utilities/movement skills/protection/breakstuns refreshed/whatever – like the mesmer signet). We need a reason to use HS active and that reason should be enough for warriors leave the passive healing for some time. Right now we dont have any reason to use it (HS active is very bad).

TheGuy.3568:

Angilos.4907:

Time played, number of classes leveled to 80, where you queue and how many dungeon runs you do a day doesn’t mean much if you can’t learn from your mistakes.

Well the more classes you play the broader your knowledge of builds and how to counter them. That old advice of go out and play it for yourself is still some of the best advice out there. People who are die hard to one class are admirable but often say thing about a class that aren’t true. this is simply because they do not know anything about any class other then the one they are playing.

Dungeons and pvp balance are not a shared knowledge. You go out and PvP as the class you hate. It may be hard at first and generally most players who tell you to do this will expect that you will fail with the meta build and won’t complain about it anymore. Generally speaking the reason players fail with meta builds at first is simply because they do not know the build. Play it for a few weeks and you’ll see where it’s pluses and minuses are.

Warrior is not OP. The class is on the teetering point any many warriors fear that is certain things are nerfed the class will fall apart. Truth is that could happen. Right now the only real nerf/change that should happen is the one to healing signet. Even if they did nerf it the active would need to be buffed to compensate.

Threads like this are traps to proclaim how unbroken the class is and argue with people who disagree. When reality kicks in and emotions aren’t rampant it really isn’t hard to see whats broken and what isn’t. Stances, banners, hammer, longbow are being used as smoke and mirrors to hide what is really wrong healing signet. If those things get nerfed to heavily when/if healing signets ever gets touched the class will be kitten again.

Don’t discount playing more than one class you view gets broader.

Actualy a agree with you in some points, My opinion is HS passive should be nerfed (scalling better with healing and the active heal buffed, plus a activation bónus, (refresh stances/banners/shouts/physical utilities/movement skills/protection/breakstuns refreshed/whatever – like the mesmer signet). We need a reason to use HS active and that reason should be enough for warriors leave the passive healing for some time. Right now we dont have any reason to use it (HS active is very bad).

JETWING.2759:

silentnight warrior.2714:

selan.8354:

JETWING.2759:

selan.8354:

Amir.1570:

Mesmers who cry about Warriors “taking less skill” are BAD PLAYERS who are all mechanics and have zero logic. Those classes are both brainless and I do agree that Warrior is the better class when you are good at this game.

However, to say Warrior is more brainless than Mesmer when those two classes spam invulnerability while cleaving is ignorant. Plain ignorant.

lol mesmer brainless? play one?try to survive the cc meta and the long cooldowns. pu is strong but its defensive and yes very annoying, but i have no problems fighting other pu builds, because i know how they move i know their cooldowns, i know which is the real mes and i know the weak spots.
btw if they use blink well thats a cooldown right there so after the first 2 invis (1 torch, 2 decoy) those are on cooldown, then massinvis long long cooldown and long animation if they use portal, well 90 sec cooldown right there. u gotta be quick and smart if u wanna be a good mes otherwise u just die …a looot!

Then i hit on the fly
But i don’t use my Decoy before the time, o wait some cc to use.

And yes, Mesmer have team weight. He can dps, distract the enemy, heal, buff and clean allies, all this in this build.

I am doing well with him, later i ll post some pictures

wat?
buff my allies, how?
clean allies?!?! with what?
heal allies? how?

can u link me the build so i get what u are talking about? im really confused right now.
and what do u mean with hit on the fly?

He must be talking about this build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAsaRlwzipXUTiGZ9IypHJnzNdkU0asWJF82FC-TsAg0CnIwRhjDHDOScs4M+YZxECA

I dont have many problems fighting in points with that even being a berserker. When the point is loaded with condition i usualy fight outside with phantasms, kill and then cap. Its a very good build.

This:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAsfWl4zipHQzoGb9IipHBnvBcnUAdOXJF42FC-TsAgyCqImRNjbGzMyZszM+Y9xMCA

I am not mastered in Mesmer yet
I tried this build and did well roaming and helping team allies. But i had problems with necros

Oh are self cleanse

That could work also, but how you cleanse allies with that build without nullfield or Mantra of Resolve?
You can do it with that build if you swap the signet for one of those things. (Null field its great to strip guardian boons, because they almost always fight on points.)

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

LumAnth.5124:

On a side note I had 10 Sky Hammers in a row lol

Followed by many losses because of many bunker warriors

wow … that is … very skyhammerish! O_O

anyway, i tried my 3rd game just now, gmt +8:00, started at 10.23pm and gotten a match at 10.29pm

about 5 minutes wait.

my first sky hammer match too!
red 322 – 504 blue
36 engi 163 – 201 ranger 33
34 mes 109 – 198 engi (The Skyhammer Hero) 43
25 necro 98 – 80 ranger 38
42 eni 93 – 70 war (me) 32
37 gua 35 – 65 war 49

sorry couldn’t resist putting his name up there. he was the 5th member to join before the game started. i thought we gonna have a 4 vs 5 situation.

their guardian was bunkering middle point, hence the lower score. their guardian bunkered mid point so good in late game, we end up capping A & C instead.

since i am casual i dun really know what builds everyone is running. i think there is at least one spirit ranger in our team cos i recall seeing green colored allied spirits.

at start, i charged the mid point, along with another team member, i think one took home point while another 2 attempted to control the skyhammer.

i tried to offer help by running to contested points. but i guess i forgot to check the mini map. >.<

i should check the mini map to see where my team mates are. there was once i was halfway running to home point when it turned blue, so i ran to other points then. i used long sword 2 to travel around quickly.

the skyhammer switched owners a few times but i think our team mates had better success with the hammer seeing they have higher points.

hmmm i guess have been lucky with my solo arena adventures so far. 3 games, 3 wins. no complete landslide defeat yet.

this time, our team had 2 heavies (2 warrior), their team had 1 heavy (guardian). in solo arena, is it really the team with more heavies have higher chance? i need to play more games to find out for myself.

oh i think the warrior in our team was playing with banners since i saw banners and there are no warriors on red team.

hmmm that’s it for now i guess.

thanks for reading!

Usualy the team with more number of good players win. I´ve played in a team with 3 mesmers, 1 thief and 1 guardian and whe won against a team of 3 guards, 1 ranger and 1 mesmer.
Its not the number of heavy classes that give you victory.

entropy.9613:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Ofc that dont say the strenght of the class but there are a lot of players that use that argument to tell that warriors are OP.

There are also a lot of what can only very loosely be described as ‘warriors’ defending an unbalanced status quo by burning perfectly innocent and stupidly unrelated straw men.

You’ve trolled this subforum long enough to know very well why your class is OP. Stop feigning an ignorance we all know is very real.

What i said it is not true?

Qaelyn.7612:

Warriors are OP, period. There’s something severely messed up when a class/build so easy to play can completely shut down other characters. The combination of offense, CC and defense is simply over the top.

The nerfs last patch were a good start, but there’s a long way to go. It would be nice to play a game without 1 or 2 of every single team having someone mindlessly hammer-swinging his way to victory.

So you want teams without warriors… gotcha

Now start to think about teams without guards, thiefs, rangers… You got a long road to go.

Qaelyn.7612:

Sensotix.4106:

troch cooldown increased? just remove pu from the game its useless in tpvp and really really strong in hotjoin which helps nobody

Because tPvP is the only game made in GW2, right? So since you don’t like/use it, it should be removed?

These sorts of comments are why most feedback is (correctly) ignored by the dev team.

Geff.1930:

Fighting against a mesmer is a source of infinite frustration.

It’s supposed to be. That’s what an illusionist-type mage is all about.

All classes can be frustrating. If you don’t feel frustrated playing someone, it usually means you are beating them easily.

Can i quote you?

mini.6018:

Made my day.Inspired by this buff thief thread im gonna start one for warrior too.
I saw whay you did there op.Lets see if i can copy.

Warrior
Decreased healing signet active heal by 50%.Increased casting time to 1.25 seconds from 1.Animation is more obvious.Passive effect changed from 397hps to 938 every 2seconds. (Think i got this )

Bull’s charge (copy lacernous strike changes logic)
Increased cooldown to 50 seconds.Kb increased to 3 seconds from2.If hits target cooldown changed to 15 seconds.? (Y i definately got how this works thx op)

Combustive shot ( ideea got from pistol whip change in this thread).
Combustive shot radius increased by33%.All andrenaline levels changed to maximum radius of 480.Burning and damage tick every second.Damage normalized to 1k per tick and 6 secobds of burning (8 stacks).If hits a player when landed it also stuns the target for 2 seconds and convert, s all target’s boons into conditions.If target has no boons it will only apply 25 stacks of torment for 18 seconds.

Rifle auto attack.Damage decreased by 60%.

Elite.Signet of rage also gives 33% condition decrese time for 48 seconds.It only gives 4 stacks of might down from 5. Fury replaced with stability and swiftness with protection.Cooldown increased from 60 seconds to 68.
Signet mastery decreases signet cooldown by 28% instead of 20.

I´ve got the same impression as you.

Other transformations allow you to also pick the orb? Never tested that before.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Honestly who care about that useless skill anyway.. Or i ask..who uses it in the first place? lol

Just delete it, and nothing will have to be changed/fixed

what if it had a duration of 30 seconds, and a recharge time of 60 seconds, and it is turned into a signet? and can be used underwater.

Signet of Rampage (48 seconds recharge time with signet mastery, that’s 18 seconds down time)

active:
Take the form of a massive juggernaut.
Stability: 30 s
Swiftness: 30 s
Duration: 30 s

passive:
gain 3 seconds of Stability every 10 seconds interval

too big of a boost? O_O

yes it is too big.

EPIC you should change the title, because people are not speaking about CC and that its the core of this post.

Well as EPIC said controll on warriors is not OP and there are easy ways to avoid them.
I still remember a video from a “very good engineer?” about what happens when you dodge and and hapens when you don’t dodge. (by only dodging he made the warrior complete useless).

“The amount of people in gw2 forums who can read but not understand its huge”.

Leuca.5732:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Actualy the OP is right. Now are more thiefs, necro, mesmer in matches than warriors.

How is that an argument for warriors not being OP? Some people just don’t like to play warriors.

That is a argument some people used to say to explain why warriors are OP. (i can understand why)

Before the recent nerfs to warrior it was comum to find many warriors in matches (FOTM Players). After balance patches those players normaly move to other classes that in their opinion are stronger. Since the last patch i find 3/4 mesmers 2/3 thiefs 2/3 necros in matches (those are the classes that i find the most) and 1/2 warriors (many matches without a single one.
Ofc that dont say the strenght of the class but there are a lot of players that use that argument to tell that warriors are OP.

hooma.9642:

silentnight warrior.2714:

….They use burst skills that empty them and after that if they are always getting adrenaline up fast, then the other player is doing something bad = bad player….

muaha attacking the warrior is bad?

Spamming skills is. And there are classes that spam a lot more than warriors. Headless Spamming is not equal to play well. Hope you understand this way.

Actualy the OP is right. Now are more thiefs, necro, mesmer in matches than warriors.

Inspiration:
III – shatter gives vigor to allies
15 points minor trait – phantasms give regeneration to allies
X – Mantras heal allies.
XI – shatter removes conditions from allies.

The cleanse comes from XI. From shatter you give vigor and cleanse conditions.

edit: with PU build i think he is exagerating as you said.

selan.8354:

JETWING.2759:

selan.8354:

Amir.1570:

Mesmers who cry about Warriors “taking less skill” are BAD PLAYERS who are all mechanics and have zero logic. Those classes are both brainless and I do agree that Warrior is the better class when you are good at this game.

However, to say Warrior is more brainless than Mesmer when those two classes spam invulnerability while cleaving is ignorant. Plain ignorant.

lol mesmer brainless? play one?try to survive the cc meta and the long cooldowns. pu is strong but its defensive and yes very annoying, but i have no problems fighting other pu builds, because i know how they move i know their cooldowns, i know which is the real mes and i know the weak spots.
btw if they use blink well thats a cooldown right there so after the first 2 invis (1 torch, 2 decoy) those are on cooldown, then massinvis long long cooldown and long animation if they use portal, well 90 sec cooldown right there. u gotta be quick and smart if u wanna be a good mes otherwise u just die …a looot!

Then i hit on the fly
But i don’t use my Decoy before the time, o wait some cc to use.

And yes, Mesmer have team weight. He can dps, distract the enemy, heal, buff and clean allies, all this in this build.

I am doing well with him, later i ll post some pictures

wat?
buff my allies, how?
clean allies?!?! with what?
heal allies? how?

can u link me the build so i get what u are talking about? im really confused right now.
and what do u mean with hit on the fly?

He must be talking about this build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAsaRlwzipXUTiGZ9IypHJnzNdkU0asWJF82FC-TsAg0CnIwRhjDHDOScs4M+YZxECA

I dont have many problems fighting in points with that even being a berserker. When the point is loaded with condition i usualy fight outside with phantasms, kill and then cap. Its a very good build.

Arkantos.7460:

Caffynated.5713:

It’s in the middle. It’s not a complete faceroll class like thief …. just spams things off cooldown.

who is more facerolling ….. ingi with his kits, f1-f4, weaponskills1-5, permavigor, shrink, condi immunity, eliteturrets; CCs and kitchange/weaponchange again , again , again, see ya couldowns
the thief?! …. limited Initiative, 1-5 weaponskills, no rdyup skills at weaponchange, no knockdowns/knockbacks, much less conditions variety, 35 sec steal, no immunity to anything?!?!

so which class has to bring on more skill and tactic ….

Thief.

kito.1827:

silentnight warrior.2714:

They need to rework the signet to work like mesmer signet. Lower passive to the same amount with adrenaline levels, up the active heal and give them a refresh stance/banner/physical utilites and problem solved

maybe they implemented the mes healsig to look how possible changes would work?
makes no sense, but i keep on dreaming for changes to this brainless ongoing warrior kitten

It makes sense to one class and it doesn´t make sense to other class? When the mesmer signet was implemented mesmers said that it was diferent from the warrior one because it promotes skill to play. If we turn healing signet like the mesmer one warriors will play with more skill dont you think?

kito.1827:

Volrath.1473:

Warriors are not op but need a small adjustment to Berserker Stance and Healing Signet IMO.

Próspero Ano Novo!!

this

compare it with the new mes healsig…

I would like that.
Lower the passive to the same amount and works with bars of adrenaline (just like the clones), Up the active heal to the same value and give a refresh stance/banner/shout/physical utilities.

Stievie.6128:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Stievie.6128:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Yes, invul works the same way on warriors and still you have to build for that. Mesmers dont need to. Correct me if i am wrong but blurried frenzy evade last longer than the skill itself. I agree with you when you talk about what warriors bring to a match, but there are other professions that should be also toned down if they nerf warriors.

happy to correct you , actually you get locked in place after the animation ends for 0.2 sec in wich you cant dodge and the evade isnt up. and saying you have to build for it is a moot point, as a mesmer you have to take a weapon for it, also to compensate mesmers have less HP and less base armor and nowhere near the sustain of a warrior. Complainin about blurred frenzy further gets devalued by the point that as a mesmer at the moment going into straight melee combat is a horrible choice and as a defensive weaponset the staff is far better. there is a reason you see so many high skill mesmers like helseth, sensotix ect running gs/staff vs competent opponents going melee for blurred frenzy usually results in more damage taken that it avoids.

So i was right about the evade last longer than the skill.
And no, you can dodge even with the evade animation after the skill ended. You lose the evade animation at the middle of the dodge. (just tested it, you can also do it).
Ok. lets put stances on warrior weapons/or give them f2/f3/f4 skills to be easier to get those defenses.
Mesmer have ports/clones/stealth, protection, so they should have less HP and less armour.
Comparing endure pain with mist form is not the best thing to do also (not you, but OP) and thats why i told him that blurried frenzy was a bigger ofender than endure pain. .

you are still completely missing the point that NO MESMER that runs a competive tpvp build runs around with 1h sword, so how is blurred frenzy an offender? if we talk about short duration evades then s/d and PW are the real offenders but you see thiefs sprouting out of nowhere in tpvp? going melee as a mesmer in teamfights is simpy put suicide or tradign damage in an unfavourable mannor. as i said before it isnt a problem of single skills but the interactions among those.

warrios still do the same or similar damage than mesmers/thiefs while beeing more forgiving to play. the point pressure they put out is ridiculous compared to other professions coupled with their tankyness and CC+passive regen. warrios are simply put too forgiving in the bigger picture. i dont have a problem loosing to good warriors, you actually notice the difference there, but its ridiculous that even bad or mediocore warriors still put up a fight simply because of their class.

also a big difference here are tradeoffs, is mesmer 4 sec diversion strong? hell yes , but we sacrifice 3 clones for it and no spamming evades to get more clones up afterwards doesnt get you anywhere since you essentially just burned all your defense and thats the big thing, a warrior using zerker stance or endure pain (endure pain is the least offender imo) doesnt give up any of his offensive potential. and just in case i´ll say it again here, invulnurbility doesnt stop conditions from damaging you, just stops new one beeing applied.

im not advocating for a “make warriors trash again” nerf, I´d rather see a balance shift into the direction that forces warriors to make more choices that actually allow counterplay. Make HS trigger on attacks, Make zerker stance reduce condition dmg to 0 but dont prevent conditions to get applied. those are all good suggestions that could actually shift warriors back to a more active class again and have been mentioned multiple times on these forums, while i dont completely agree with those , they are better than what we have now.

and we are talking about tpvp builds here , so please refrain from bringing PU mesmers into this, its a despiceable build but atleast its near useless in tpvp atm.

Remove the protection from the list and you have ports/stealth/clones and that still justify the low HP and armour. (Not PU builds)

I agree with you when you said that thiefs are even worst than mesmer in that department and i’m glad you notice that too. The blurried frenzy was a exemple for the OP.

edit: Warrior sacrífices his utilitys slots for the stances. so they are not free.

Best regards

They need to rework the signet to work like mesmer signet. Lower passive to the same amount with adrenaline levels, up the active heal and give them a refresh stance/banner/physical utilites and problem solved

I do not call that skill, but practise. After that its like every other class.

Stievie.6128:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Yes, invul works the same way on warriors and still you have to build for that. Mesmers dont need to. Correct me if i am wrong but blurried frenzy evade last longer than the skill itself. I agree with you when you talk about what warriors bring to a match, but there are other professions that should be also toned down if they nerf warriors.

happy to correct you , actually you get locked in place after the animation ends for 0.2 sec in wich you cant dodge and the evade isnt up. and saying you have to build for it is a moot point, as a mesmer you have to take a weapon for it, also to compensate mesmers have less HP and less base armor and nowhere near the sustain of a warrior. Complainin about blurred frenzy further gets devalued by the point that as a mesmer at the moment going into straight melee combat is a horrible choice and as a defensive weaponset the staff is far better. there is a reason you see so many high skill mesmers like helseth, sensotix ect running gs/staff vs competent opponents going melee for blurred frenzy usually results in more damage taken that it avoids.

So i was right about the evade last longer than the skill.
And no, you can dodge even with the evade animation after the skill ended. You lose the evade animation at the middle of the dodge. (just tested it, you can also do it).
Ok. lets put stances on warrior weapons/or give them f2/f3/f4 skills to be easier to get those defenses.
Mesmer have ports/clones/stealth, protection, so they should have less HP and less armour.
Comparing endure pain with mist form is not the best thing to do also (not you, but OP) and thats why i told him that blurried frenzy was a bigger ofender than endure pain. .