@Cygnus:
I think you missed the point.I didn’t say anything about Mesmers being good/bad in large fights.
I did say that with 0 illusions and no Illusionary Persona, a Mesmer does not have a class mechanic … shatters do nothing in that scenario.
-If a warrior dont have adrenaline and no FH then warrior also dont have a class mechanic …burst skills dont do nothing in that scenario.
Regardless of whether or not a Warrior has Fast Hands, their burst skills don’t “do nothing”.
-Without adrenaline they dont do nothingI only brought this up to explain a possible bit of reasoning that ArenaNet may have had … hence the wording I used in my previous post.
Now to the rest of my previous post … I wasn’t saying that this lone reason was why they shouldn’t be made baseline … in fact, if you read the whole post, I said that Fast Hands should either be made baseline or removed from the game and the Warrior balanced around whichever one is done.
Is there something wrong with that opinion?
Is there something you disagree with there?
Just to clear some false statement in this post.
IP on warrior is like the use of burst skills without adrenaline.
What is wrong with rewarding someone for proper use of block/dodge/blind/etc. ?
What is wrong with letting the mechanics punish someone for using a skill while blind or while their target is blocking/dodging/invuln/etc.?
If you do well, be rewarded. If you mess up, sorry, there are consequences for that.
Is no one even bothering to read my initial post before hitting reply?
It requires very little skill to spam blinds/evades/aegis, and many of these moves are on a faster cast timer than burst skills.
cannot control what happens after we start the cast for earthshaker
still get penalized for what happens after we cast earthshaker
Agree, or disagree with me: thats fine. But not reading at all, making a point that’s already been addressed, and trying to hijack the thread to complain about mesmers? Wrong subforum; you’re lost. In fact, get lost.
There are lots of things mesmer have that cannot be compared to warrior.
Mesmers can burst from stealth, you see the warrior all the time and all their bursts.
If a mesmer is close to the target and place their clones near, the big burst its almost instant, warrior burst have all big animations even when your close and are a lot easier to react.
We could have that too, the closer you are to the target, the quicker is the burst. I believe that could be a solution to your problem.
Says it all really. Literally the exact same reasoning applies to Fast Hands.
With that principle there is 0 reasons to FH not be baseline.
But i guess no Devs will answer this.In case of Developers going to answer this post, I’m gonna form a “mandatory baseline wish list”
Ranger:
Wilderness Knowledge. (The only form of cleanse ranger has, forcing all ranger to pick Wilderness Survival post patch)Ele:
Evasive Arcane + Elemental Attunement. Same as FH, all Ele uses it.Guardian:
All meditations related traits.Note that the developers are using the word “viable pvp builds” So some niche useless specs should not used as an excuse to counter my argument.
Feel free to expand the list.
You can create those treads in each profession forum you posted. Go ahead.
Says it all really. Literally the exact same reasoning applies to Fast Hands.
With that principle there is 0 reasons to FH not be baseline.
But i guess no Devs will answer this.
This reminds me when mesmers complained about DE nerf and the Devs didn´t nerfed the trait.
Now its engies complaining about perma swiftness and the Devs give it back.
Now i see the buffs each class received and i understand why they were the most buffed classes….
Meanwhyle every other class is ignored….
Lich Form when traited will last longer than rampage traited. They taked away some duration but they give it back and some more when traited.
If they had cut rampage duration they would give it back in the trait like they did to lich.
What are the changes for warrior?
I think this time is for good…
People, try to not ruin the topic by talking about balance.
Don’t worry about that.
At least that means that all people that complained about shoutbow was clueless. There were several treads were warriors explained were the shoutbow is weak and people still dont believe it.
Its good to have this kind of componds that counter shoutbow with heavy damage .
Shoutbow with elementalist can counter conditions quite good.
If meta changes then warrior builds will change too. Thats a good thing.
The only problem i see is the frequent usage of stealth bursts. That should be balanced.
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
I play 43332 in pve I feel im strong its viable I kill stuuf quick
Its true. Every build in every class works on PvE. Warrior is no exception. But to be optimal with one build or in this case to be desired in dungeons thats another story.
Where people use the EA warrior build 6 4 0 4 0 that does not run fast hands?
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
Well… It’s actually not that bad at all, as you could dps in axe and/or sword decently effectively for an extended period of time, it’s just not optimal. But that’s just the thing, nothing else has room to be optimal When one this is OP.
The main reason I either want everyone to have it, no one, or leave it as a Discipline trait is much more than the swap value, but it completely changes the value and power of sigils for warrior.
Your argument doesn’t make any sense to me:
- Can you provide a viable build that doesn’t trait FH? One that keeps pace with non warriors, can win fights, etc?
- All warriors already run FH, so making it baseline changes nothing with respect to warriors and sigils
- No one has denied that FH is a powerful trait, but if all warriors run it and warriors aren’t OP now, then what’s the issue?
The EA warroir build 6 4 0 4 0 does not run fast hands.
Where you use that build?
Whats wrong with such buffs? Warrior deserves it!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/what-if-warriors-sprint-run-100-faster/first#post5145075
Every class have silly treads like that.
Its another tread that will be declined by warriors.
I dont agree with that change.
With the upcoming changes to leaps it would be OP.
Hello friends!
Please do not give the OP any more attention than he needs, aside from the extreme profession bias towards Warriors and Elementalists (He’s been over there too) the threads listed are simple Warrior balance discussions among us of the profession. Many of us in those threads have already vouched our opinions on what has merit or not (CI minor? Oh lord that’s horribly imbalanced, no thank you).
Thank you for your understanding.
Haha, I actually posted in all professions threads. I have only responded 2~3 threads in Ele and Warrior during this month, and suddenly you think I’m specifically targeting Warrior and Ele.. LOL
While many people cry for a nerf to thief and ranger, Warrior actually go the other way round of asking for more buffs than ever. They misunderstand the reason of why Anet makes things baseline. Anet makes things baseline because some skills are TOO WEAK without the trait, but Warrior is actually pushing the best traits to be baseline because every warrior uses it, it’s too good not to use it! It’s killing our diversity!" The funny thing is every professions have the same problem if they want to be top tier efficient in PVP. So does that mean every professions should get everything that’s too good not to pick as baseline? Is that what you guys want?
The bold lines are very interesting.
The answer is there.
What we need is to have counterplay to all movement skills. If leaps are afected with cripple or chill, ports should be too.
There is no reason for only one kind of movement to be afected. So we have counter to only leaps?
If ports are to stay as they are now, then leaps need to get on the same level. Of course ports will still be superior.
I do think that movement changes are a well thought change. It brings ports and leaps more in line with each other. Ofc ports will still be better.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/combat-changes-dotsanddashes/
You have to get allot more condition dmg to deal the same dmg as it is now..
Well this sucks for all power builds.. end of longbow for allot of us.
First they will reduce the burning dmg part (but it stacks now so it could be the same in the end)
But:
Essentially, conditions are too effective right now without investing points into the condition-damage stat. We will significantly lower the base damage on damaging conditions while increasing how much they scale with the condition-damage stat. This means at lower levels of condition damage you can expect to do less damage than you currently do, while at higher values you’ll do even more damage than you are currently able to. The formulas are still being adjusted, but to give you an idea, the break-even point before you start doing more damage is around 700 condition damage.
Conclusion, only celestial/hybrid builds can still use this weapon.
All power builds are excluded by this change.
It seeems that you need to have to invest 600 condition damage at least to be able to to do condition damage. Power builds will do less damage with conditions, its true.
In the same way conditions will be more rewarding in condition builds, i just hope they make those builds viable in the same way they make zerker ones, with 3 stats mandatory (power/precision/ferocity).
Sure … if you only read that last post and not the rest of the actual discussion that’s been taking place … and accept an anecdote as a fact to prove a point :-/
I read the discussion.
No viable build without FH. No one manage to show that FH is not mandatory to warrior be viable.
There is a lot more proofs (years of warrior builds) showing FH being a must in every viable build.This is probably because Warrior needs fast-hand to “abuse” adrenaline gain so they can spam as many LB F1 for cleansing Ire as much as possible. They also try to abuse on-swap sigil as much as possible through fast-hand. It’s just such a good combination that Warrior don’t want to give up, otherwise they probably wouldn’t be as OP as it is now.
But honestly, fast-hand is not really mandatory in PVE contents at all. People still pick it only because there’re ferocity bound to it. If the ferocity part is removed, people will pick something else for sure in PVE.
That is the same thing that saying that mesmer needs DE to “abuse” clone spam so they can spam f1 for the damage / boon removal all the time they want. They also “abuse” energy sigil so they can “abuse” even more.
But DE is not mandatory in PvE…
Because Anet fail to create something that does good by not brainlessly spam something no-end for the most rewarding play-style. What Anet should do is increase the “active way” of Warrior getting Adrenaline (like hitting target grants more adrenaline) and nerf all the passive way (being hit, spam swapping weapon, shout, signet of rage, LB F1) of getting enormous amount of Adrenaline.
ANet fail with that in all classes. Some people spam with skill, others dont.
Your solution wont work because all the blinds / evades / dodges / ports this game have.
Also warrior have easy to tell animations / attacks.
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
Sure … if you only read that last post and not the rest of the actual discussion that’s been taking place … and accept an anecdote as a fact to prove a point :-/
I read the discussion.
No viable build without FH. No one manage to show that FH is not mandatory to warrior be viable.
There is a lot more proofs (years of warrior builds) showing FH being a must in every viable build.This is probably because Warrior needs fast-hand to “abuse” adrenaline gain so they can spam as many LB F1 for cleansing Ire as much as possible. They also try to abuse on-swap sigil as much as possible through fast-hand. It’s just such a good combination that Warrior don’t want to give up, otherwise they probably wouldn’t be as OP as it is now.
But honestly, fast-hand is not really mandatory in PVE contents at all. People still pick it only because there’re ferocity bound to it. If the ferocity part is removed, people will pick something else for sure in PVE.
That is the same thing that saying that mesmer needs DE to “abuse” clone spam so they can spam f1 for the damage / boon removal all the time they want. They also “abuse” energy sigil so they can “abuse” even more.
But DE is not mandatory in PvE…
I think he said if your enemy have a skill that gives 5 sec chill and had food with + 40 % duration you will have 7 sec of chill. All the food / traits that gives less condition duration take effect on the 5 sec chill and not on the 7 sec chill.
So 5 sec – 40% less duration (lemon grass) = 3 sec chill – 15% (Melandru Rune) = 2.55 Sec chill – 33% (DM) = 1.7 sec chill (with the 2 seconds from + 40% duration it would be 3.7 sec chill).
So you will never be imune to movement conditions. To all other condition you should remove the -33% from DM.
If the Removal % stack together then 40% + 15% + 33% = 88%
5 Sec Chill – 88% = 0.6 Seconds + 2sec from + % food gives 2.6 seconds Chill
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
The main problem with mesmer imo is the ability to interrupt the enemy at the same time it can remove stability.
No build should be able to remove stability and have a good amount of CC. Thats is not balanced at all.
Blacktruth plays (i think) Mace – shield / axe – mace.
You can watch his stream, play the build and see for your self if its viable or not.
Its a fun build but it has many counters. But again see for yourself.
Btw i read people saying here that ANet dont want warriors to have FH baseline. There is something that keeps me wondering.
1- How they know that?
2- If ANet really didn´t balanced warrior skills / weapons / combos to have FH why do they make it mandatory for every warrior who traits at least 3 points into discipline? You cannot choose to NOT to take it after the specialization if you go for the discipline tree.If ANet wanted it to be baseline, do you not think they would have made the change with all the others? Warrior got zero baseline traits, because they don’t need any.
It is “mandatory” as a minor in discipline as that is the trait line that interacts, synergises if you will, with burst skills and weapons swaps.
Still (using mesmer as example because people are used to) mesmers could build without IP. warriors going full in the same trait line must take FH. That says a lot.
That could mean that ANet is thinking to force warrior to still take the last trait line but they are also thinking to free other trait lines for us. (defence?) Maybe elite specialization will free us from defense line.
The thing is, no matter what ANet will do (give FH or not as baseline), warriors will take it anyway.
The build diversity could be with the elite specialization, could be the thing we need to get rid of defense or discipline.
Right now if those are to stay a must in warrior builds, we will only have x.×.6.×.6 builds running around.
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
Btw i read people saying here that ANet dont want warriors to have FH baseline. There is something that keeps me wondering.
1- How they know that?They did not mention it in the first place, when they first talked about specialization, so people assume they don’t want Fast Hands to be made baseline. It could indeed be the case, or it could be they did not think about it, or that they’re still considering/testing it.
Why did warriors receive Fast Hands in the first place? Because weapon-swapping is key to the warrior gameplay. Why did thieves receive Feline Grace? Because evading is key to their gameplay. Both warriors and thieves would be thrilled to get Fast Hands or Feline Grace, as both classes swap weapons and evade – but a class’ identity, aside from its core mechanics, is defined by having more of certain things and less of others, is all.
There is a difference between Fast Hands and Feline Grace though, in that the warrior overall mechanics is lacking comparing to the thief’s one, and that Fast Hands, rather than complementing it as a nice extension of a possible gameplay, has been used as a crutch for all possible warrior gameplays.
You realise Feline Grace is taking a massive nerf with the trait changes?
Can you elaborate?
Btw i read people saying here that ANet dont want warriors to have FH baseline. There is something that keeps me wondering.
1- How they know that?
2- If ANet really didn´t balanced warrior skills / weapons / combos to have FH why do they make it mandatory for every warrior who traits at least 3 points into discipline? You cannot choose to NOT to take it after the specialization if you go for the discipline tree.
Name me a build without discipline that will be broken with baseline fast hands please.
People who think Fast Hands shouldn’t be baseline are literally using fail arguments. The only advantage that fast hands give that people complain about is.. on-swap advantage. And on-swap only really helps certain builds such as Tarcis’ Greatbow, shoutbow, and condi specs, and maybe soldier hammer. Only shoutbow is a real problem tbh though a shoutbow variation, in theory, without discipline won’t really work if fast hands were to be baseline.
Maybe fire/air + energy DPS builds without using discipline could be strong if fast hands become baseline. But I don’t believe it will be cancer either unless they give Warrior some instant cast mechanics.
For real though? Are you going to say.. Unsuspecting Foe will be OP with baseline fast hands? L2P, mace and hammer are already too telegraphed. Are you going to say.. Condi Warrior will be OP with baseline fast hands? There’s no point in picking that over shoutbow and it has no CC.
Like name me a build that will be OP with baseline fast hands without the discipline tree, please. I’m going to laugh if you say DPS warr will be op because that just shows you have zero reaction time and just bad to have an opinion.
So long as they keep Warrior telegraphed and not have too many evades on weapon skills, baseline fast hands will NOT HURT balancing.
P.S I still don’t understand why casuals are saying their opinion on why Fast Hands shouldn’t be baseline. That isn’t a big buff tbh.
They cannot name one. Dont expect too much.
This tread its getting funnier each day. Examples:
1 – You cannot say that fasthands is mandatory for warrior (ignoring all viable builds in the past and in presence)
2 – You can say that FH will be OP if baseline (with no proffs of that statement).
Something is wrong here….
(grabs popcorn…)
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
Because some people’s reasoning is “other classes got some traits baseline … Mesmer got 5 things … so Warrior should get some things baseline”.
It’s bad reasoning …. but it keeps popping up.
By their logic, when they were growing up they should have gotten a wheelchair because some other kid injured in a car accident got one.
To quote one of my sons’ books … they have the “greedy gimmes” (Berenstein Bears ftw).
I was talking about comparing traits. You cannot do that in any profession (or is not the smartest thing to do).
Why are we comparing mesmer to warrior?
They have different mechanics. It makes no sense at all.
There are several topics on these and metabattle also features them. Was there a point to bringing these up?
Because you talked about warrior having high damage coeficients and i was trying to explain that those damage coeficients dont make a diference. Warrior is used in all metas but not for the damage it brings but for the suport instead.
Its the same with mesmers / rangers / thiefs / guardians / engi / necros / eles. Some have lower damage coeficients but are more viable as damage dealers.
A very good example is ranger, They can bring many (in some ways OP) damage from far away, but that makes them viable at top tier?
So in the end is about how you can survive / deal damage / suport that makes a class viable or not. Right know warrior is viable because of the suport it brings.
Right now warrior can only choose one line in three. All the builds use at least x.×.4.×.3.
After specialization, if the elite specialization dont fix the mandatory traits for warrior, we will play x.×.6.×.6 and we will only be able to choose the elite specialization or other trait line.
What warrior asks is a free trait line to choose. like x.×.6.×.x. Better build diversity.
Thanks
That means that all current warrior builds could be played after the specialization (the same for all classes).
With this we have already information about what warriors need to be viable in the current meta and in the previous metas (CI and FH).
What we lack is the information about if the elite specialization will remove this must have traits or not.
We, warriors from the begining know what was warrior before CI, (it was not played at top level and was considered the easiest class to defeat by every class). We also know what was warrior before warrior sprint.
About the damage coefficients being high, we also know (in sPvP) that shoutbow without sigil procs is bad and the only reason to take shoutbow is for condition cleanses against heavy condition teams, not for the damage it does. (I still kill shoutbows with conditions btw).
In PvE warriors are taken to give might to the damage dealer classes, and not because they do a lot of damage.
In WvWvW warriors are less everyday mostly because the stability changes. They were used for control (Hammer Stun).
Maybe the elite specialization will change this, but if not, i believe ANet should make some traits baseline because those traits will be used again and again.
I was talking about the warrior specialization like the chronomancer or the reaper. I believe those specialization give extra traits.
There is something i need to know.
When specialization is here, people will only have that option/build to play?
Removing Fast Hands would logically lower the value of weapon-swapping (you’d swap less often). The consequences are:
- Weaker weapons rotations, because of the reduced CD’s synergies between weapons (including the burst skill). This means a reduced efficiency of the warrior, in both attacking and defending. This also means a reduced adrenaline building rate, since we’d be hitting less.
- Weaker effects of traits benefiting from weapon-swapping: condition cleansing (Brawler’s Recovery), might building (Versatile Power), adrenaline building (Versatile Rage).
- Weaker effects of burst-based features, because of the overall drop of the adrenaline building rate: less bursts means less condition cleansing (Cleansing Ire), less endurance regeneration (Building Momentum), less critical chance (Critical Burst, only interesting in “pulsing” bursts though).
- Reduced value of weapon-swapping sigils. The warrior, thanks to Fast Hands, can take great advantage of these sigils (though admittedly not as well as eles or engies).
As one can see, swapping weapons is critical for the warrior, it’s not just nice to have, the class is built around it. Removing Fast Hands would increase build diversity for sure, but would render the whole class mechanics not only inefficient, but also ineffective. One would have to significantly reengineer the class to make Fast Hands optional (and such a thing would go beyond a mere class specialization).
You make me wonder if ANet removed FH, if they would make warrior more efective with their skills after.
Absolutely, I didn’t mention it because it was off topic but this would clearly be the best choice. Better take the whole Discipline traitline than the defense one.
Cleansing Ire is currently the trait that takes away our build diversity, not Fast Hands (well at least not as strongly).
It could be possible to build a viable warrior build without CI if adrenaline on getting it was a thing. You got 3 lines that give you cleanses (on heal, with warhorn and on weapon swap (the last GM trait require FH to be usefull).
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
If you read, then are you saying that you are disagreeing with the rest of us about how we currently don’t have enough information to know whether or not Fast Hands will be req’d with the new Specialization changes? … or are you just saying it’s a requirement now?
If the former, please tell me how we have enough information to be informed if that will be the case?
If the latter, that’s not the topic since no class is getting any traits baseline before the Specialization changes.
Also, “the majority” doesn’t mean crap. Please, again, see all the times in human history where “the majority” has been dead wrong. There have also been times in the lifetime of this game where people have complained about some weapon, utility, etc. for a class until a good player finally posts a video and says “yeah, i’ve been using it all this time and it rocks”. Then their minds change.
As far as Necromancer mobility. There is far more to mobility than Swiftness and the +25% passive movement speed bonus.
Warrior has 2 abilities on Greatsword and 1 on Sword for extra mobility and both have that mobility improved with faster movespeed via the passive or Swiftness.
Warrior also has Bull’s Charge if they’d like to be a hardcore NIKE.
Necromancer only has their Wurm and Spectral Walk for additional movement. Both require the Necromancer to have been at or near the location they are wanting to teleport to. Both also have drastically longer cooldowns than the Warrior weapon skills that provide movement.
They have their Wurm and being able to teleport back to a place they came from via Spectral Walk.
Right now FH is a must in all builds and no one can say otherwise.
If it would be a must in the future? No one here knows, (i would like it to NOT be mandatory, but that means some changes (bufs) to warrior rotations).
As for necro mobility see my last post. You also forget Dark Path.
About the majority, your example is not the rule, its the exception.
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
Fast hands is too strong to even be a minor trait. wont happen.
Warrior sprint? warrior has the best access to swiftness through traits, warhorn, and SoR right next to engi. highly unlikely to happen also
Even necro has good access to swiftness through traits and warhorn (perma swiftness) and spectral skills, also have the 25% speed increase with signet. Still it seems slow.
Necro has no mobility whatsoever unlike warrior to make use of the ever so scarce swiftness and the crappy active effect of the locust sig not that it makes much of a diffrence.
Warhorn is not just a utility skill for swiftness, it isa huge life force generation tool, helps with added cripple to stay on the target for dagger auto attacks since necromancer lacks gap closers on weapon sets. The weapon is an option only on power builds. The skill can actually put you in combat when running around.
Only one spectral skill gives swiftness and it a stun break on 60 seconds cooldown. would be a waste to use for mere swiftness unlike SoR.
now compare this to the almighty warrior warhorn which i’d kill to have it on a necro along with its traits, Furious Speed/Reaction if you use arms ( at least I do use it) and a readily available warrior sprint on a adept trait that most warriors take and is even being merged with one of my most favorite traits on warrior, mobile strikes. yeah I totally would go into blood magic and use two daggers for similar effect on a master trait.
If you want to see how slow warrior is take a look at the ridiculous kiting and mobility in the I Exy I and Vaanss duels and how effective fast hands make a rotation. baseline? no thanks!
I didn´t said that necro was fast. I said that necro with all that seems slow. In the same way i was trying to explain why all that swifness on warrior is not a big deal. Warrior sprint was a upgrade from ANet to warriors because even with all that swiftness they were unable to catch anyone. Same with criple on sword auto.
Those changes were a “fix” to warrior.
Btw i´ve seen duels with more kiting than that by other classes.
Fast hands is too strong to even be a minor trait. wont happen.
Warrior sprint? warrior has the best access to swiftness through traits, warhorn, and SoR right next to engi. highly unlikely to happen also
Even necro has good access to swiftness through traits and warhorn (perma swiftness) and spectral skills, also have the 25% speed increase with signet. Still it seems slow.
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
Sure … if you only read that last post and not the rest of the actual discussion that’s been taking place … and accept an anecdote as a fact to prove a point :-/
I read the discussion.
No viable build without FH. No one manage to show that FH is not mandatory to warrior be viable.
There is a lot more proofs (years of warrior builds) showing FH being a must in every viable build.
Did anyone already find a viable warrior build without fast hands?
I dont get this posts that say that fast hands should not be made baseline. Every warrior already takes fast hands in their builds if he wants to be viable, so the only thing that would change is the build warrior takes, and that is really good.
People should not compare classes….Nope!
I guess u can go something 6 0 6 0 2 with warr runes. Bad tho but I guess it’s ‘viable’
I actually do use a build of this description, although it’s some physical skill focused build I made that uses mending, so it’s extra bad.
The warrior runes are chosen to make up for the loss of fast hands, though the build would undoubtedly be more effective with fast hands present.
The funny thing is that the specialization changes will allow me to go 60606, so I’m going to be getting fast hands in that build anyways (don’t need arms or tactics in it).
I tried the build for a long time without the warrior runes, but I felt it was just way too much of a problem. As such, I swapped to warrior runes to try and compensate for it a bit.
I’m still not 100% sold on the idea of fast hands as a baseline characteristic of warriors, but I do agree that not having fast hands can severely reduce the effectiveness of many builds, particularly those that rely on certain weapon combos (i.e. skullcrack builds).
So, in the end warriors require Fast Hands to be viable in any type of game mode.
It could be cool if ANet dont force warriors to go in the last line. Lets see how it goes.
Deimos, even 20 sec wont bring the shout into play.
“On my mark” as a shout is underpowered and i dont remmeber to see this shout in any viable build ever.
If you use this on a shout build you would loose some of the other shouts (1 break stun and condition cleanse, other buffs you and allies with might and the other is a fear).
I would not bring that shout into play even if it was 15 sec cd. Thats how bad that shout is. I dont even see that change as a buff to warrior.
You would have more healing with shoubow but less defense-condition clear / less damage – less might/ less control – no fear.
For “On my mark” to be used you must change his functionality. (reveal – boon removal – area denial – taunt), something that can be used by players.
Chill is in fact too strong/op condition.
Cripple gives you less 50% speed.
Chill gives you less 66% speed (more powrfull than cripple) AND 66% cooldown increase.
This could be balanced if Chill didn´t affect speed or didn´t afect cooldowns. The 2 are too much. Maybe if the numbers were adjusted it would be balanced, like 20% less speed and 66% cooldown increase or 66% less speed and 20% cooldown increase.That’s why the method of applying chills are limited, and the duration is usually quite short. Only Necro has more access to chill, but even then, it doesn’t help Necro makes into Meta, and it’s still the bottom class of the PVP.
Still Chill is too strong.
Necro problems are not related with chill but with the lack of sustain outside DS.
They also have bad suport.
These are the things that need some work.
Chill is OP as a controll ability. It does too much for a single condition.
Chill is in fact too strong/op condition.
Cripple gives you less 50% speed.
Chill gives you less 66% speed (more powerfull than cripple) AND 66% cooldown increase.
This could be balanced if Chill didn´t affect speed or didn´t afect cooldowns. The 2 are too much. Maybe if the numbers were adjusted it would be balanced, like 20% less speed and 66% cooldown increase or 66% less speed and 20% cooldown increase.
Healing Signet can be good (sustained healing) and can be bad (lack of burst healing). That depends on the enemy / situations.
The way they are changing HS could be in some ways a very good change against conditions classes, but they need to change the active healing a lot otherwise would not be enough between charges.
Against burst classes will be weak as always.
Did anyone already find a viable warrior build without fast hands?
I dont get this posts that say that fast hands should not be made baseline. Every warrior already takes fast hands in their builds if he wants to be viable, so the only thing that would change is the build warrior takes, and that is really good.
Btw , people should not compare classes…. Its dumb…
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
Warrior is lacking viable zerker builds like thieves, mesmer and guardians and is lacking in the boon removal department. I would like to have the option to remove stability and then CC the other player, like mesmers, necros and sometimes thiefs.
People blaming celestial when it’s zerker the problem…
Nobody’s complaining about celestial here. Cleansing ire is also used on soldier and zerker builds…
If there is ANY nerf that needs to happen, then nerf it after the specializations come out. Nerfing Cleansing Ire right now will kitten many people off. If you want it nerfed so bad right now, then nerf Slick Shoes and D/D ele too. Both are just as “cancer” and easy to be honest.
You’re not being reasonable.
Totaly this. It is to soon to understand what balance will exist in the future.
Shoutbow already have huge weakness and its not conditions. So i dont get it why people dont just CC them and make them useless.
CI only works well with longbow and not with other weapons so not that good overal.
Warriors have the best invul/evaid/block uptime in the game. Utility+heal stance, traited invul (and you can trait stances for more uptime), 5sec weapon swap for energy sigil, shield, gs evaid.
best Invul uptime – Warriors dont have a single invul skill.
best Evaid uptime – Thief ( warrior is not even close)
Best block uptime – engi or guard.
Energy sigil have a CD and it works better with 10 sec CD (as a warrior you can miss the CD and not proc it)
I’ve personally never liked what Moa brings to the game. With it being able to be reset with chronomancer it could get really frustrating to play against and far too powerful.
3v3 – Moa one player, reset, Moa other player = 3v1
This is going to be huge.
CI is fine.
Nerfing them will nerf all warrior builds. Nerf soldiers runes instead (give them a CD) if really needed.
Shoutbow is strong against conditions but very weak against hard CC.
Eles are not that good when cleasing conditions but are stronger against hard CC and they bring water fields.
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)