Guild Wars 2

Booms.2594:

xDudisx.5914:

Booms.2594:

Solori.6025:

Booms.2594:

Solori.6025:

xDudisx.5914:

-A medi guard doesnt have op ranged spike dmg.
-He has less hp than a mesmer
-He can’t remove boons like a mesmer
-When imune the guard is not doing dmg, but the mesmer is.

Really.

Let’s not forget a mesmer does max shatter damage at melee

A guardian has twice the healing that a mesmer has

More blocks

More ports to stay on the mesmer

AoE damage to basically nullify the entire mesmer’s main proffession mechanic
( which also nullifies the boon stripping..go figure)
constant burning

And is one of the few classes that can stack might and sustain by itself to 15-18 stacks.

Oh and has access to multiple AoE blinds, Which make mesmer phantasm generation( you know the illusions that actually deal damage) much much harder.

all the while hitting for zerk damage, with bunker sustain.

We all know how balanced guardian is

yeah ok its true mesmer is crap but half of that kitten is so wrong lol. guardian has like 3 stacks of might usually so idk what youre smoking bro,

I know that your not doing it right. That much is apparent.

You have a trait that gives might in an AoE to the party every crit on a 1 second cooldown.

A trait that gives your virtue of justice 3 stacks of might on use

Greatsword gives might at the end of its chain for 7 seconds.

Rune of strength gives might every time your hit and that happens often in combat.

Sigil of battle gives 3 stacks of might for 20 seconds on weapon swap

..please tell me again why you dont have at least 15 stacks of might?

Also LOL one-shot

When you can block, blind, and burn down clones.
If you get 1 shot by a mesmer as a guardian your a bad guardian.

But I guess that’s apparent for you since you think you can sustain at max 3 stacks of might.
LOL

guards dont run the might on crit trait
guards dont run sigil of battle
most guards dont run strength either now
gs autos are slow and take forever and usually wont be procced (especially vs mesmers)

and yea yea a mesmer wont actually land a shatter on a guard… but if he did it’d be a one shot.

A medi guard also doens’t have freaking spamable blinks like a mesmer does lol. His ranged dmg is not even close to the mesmer one. Medi guard also is not super mobile like a mesmer.

actually guardian has a 600 range teleport on a 10s cd (the exact same as phase retreat lol)

Exacly, while one got a gap closer and its tied to melee to deal damage the other is a kiting skill and its tied to ranged damage.
You are saying that he is right…..

Dondagora.9645:

silentnight warrior.2714:

What Moa needs its 2 things. After that its balanced.

- Cannot be casted while in stealth.
- Can be refleted. (This could be a huge buff to the mesmer because acording to these forums Moa is very powerfull).

First thing is fine, second is… well, troll-ish. Assuming you’re not joking, I’d argue that reflect is for projectiles, and moa is no projectile. And our argument is not that moa is powerful, but that it does not make you helpless, which is what many believe without studying the actual skills and capabilities of moa.

Of course i was troling on the second one.

If you read all the post here defending that elite you get the impression that Moa form is so powerfull to the morphed player that when a mesmer cast it its game over for the mesmer.

With this in mind a reflected moa is a Buff to mesmers…. lol

What Moa needs its 2 things. After that its balanced.

- Cannot be casted while in stealth.
- Can be refleted. (This could be a huge buff to the mesmer because acording to these forums Moa is very powerfull).

Artaz.3819:

So add a water field to HS active and you’ll see it used.

IMO this is the best sugestion till now.

Archaon.9524:

Neptune.2570:

Could you do me a favor?

I want you to log off, go grab a box of scrabble, and eat each individual tile in the box. After it’s digested take note of the order that each letter comes out of your kitten . Come back to the forums once you’ve taken a note of what the letters said and write here on this thread what the result said, because that’s exactly how much sense the kitten you say makes.

Worth every infraction….

+36534564

This is the kind of things people write when they lack good sense. Because:

Is a good way to make a dev end a topic. If the OP is so out of the reality with mesmers you should not use this kind of tactic.

or

He is right and thats is a smart move for making people not complain anymore.

They only need to “fix” the adrenaline decay after leaving combat. 10 seconds to start losing adrenaline is enough IMO.
After that change i think warrior will be fine.

Not saying that i agree with you OP but there are few people playing spvp because one person plays more pve than pvp there.
Mesmer is one of the classes that rely on ilusions / phantasms (AI) to deal damage and the amount of AI and his related damage is very high when you fight a good mesmer.

IMO, the better the mesmer is, the risk when playing one drops low. But that don’t makes mesmers OP.

HS is fine and warriors after the last changes are balanced. People only need to check this link to see what people think what is strong or weak.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/SPVP-Tier-List

There are classes that need some nerfs but right now warrior is not one of them.

IMO Warrior got hit the worst.

The adrenaline loss on miss was a good change to balancing risk vs reward.
The adrenaline loss in out of combat was a huge nerf that affect all warrior builds, not just one or two, and warriors cannot start any fight with burst skills without sloting one utility or a heal to gain adrenaline and in both cases they are wasting the utility on the skill to do that.
Right after the patch i needed to change my gameplay with warrior.
With thiefs and necros i still do the same. I didn´t notice the nerfs the way i notice with warrior.

Adrenaline decays too fast imo.
I´m ok with the GS change, at least you have a viable way to proc CI with it and the skill works well. Still i would like to know the reason for the changes they showed in the skill bar.

KrisHQ.4719:

They should simply redo it like they did with Thieve’s “Choking Gas”.
Giving the skill an impact that lands, and that impact determines if the fire field will go off or not, and whether Cleansing Ire should trigger.
Does anyone know if you can blind the skill, or destroy the projectile?
Or does Cleansing Ire trigger the moment you fire the arrow?

I still haven’t tested that yet but are you saying that Choking Gas only trigers if you hit someone? I thought the only change was the reveal on hit.

Warlord.9074:

silentnight warrior.2714:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Harper.4173:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Harper.4173:

Also GS is not a PvP weapon, nor was it Op.

Strange, I just used it in PvP. You are confused.

No one said it was OP. I stated it in a manner to answer his question. adding another 50% to the arcing slice damage would be OP. It is reasonably strong now, does more over all damage, and increased the chance to proc CI by hitting more foes. Making an AoE cleave added a very large amount to the skills damage potential.

Because sPvP is exactly the place where you’ll be using that awesome 5-man cleave.

The fact that you used GS in PvP does not make it a PvP weapon and any good player will know that.

When you hit the point that you can tell folks that, please do. What is your PvP rank by the way? Did your team progress further then mine did in the last NA ToL?

I didn´t watch the last ToL.

Honest question here:

How many warriors played there with gs?
Those who played were able to win?

Pretty sure I thought that not one single top team had a warrior could be wrong. Warrior no longer viable/needed.

Thanks for the answer.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Harper.4173:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Harper.4173:

Also GS is not a PvP weapon, nor was it Op.

Strange, I just used it in PvP. You are confused.

No one said it was OP. I stated it in a manner to answer his question. adding another 50% to the arcing slice damage would be OP. It is reasonably strong now, does more over all damage, and increased the chance to proc CI by hitting more foes. Making an AoE cleave added a very large amount to the skills damage potential.

Because sPvP is exactly the place where you’ll be using that awesome 5-man cleave.

The fact that you used GS in PvP does not make it a PvP weapon and any good player will know that.

When you hit the point that you can tell folks that, please do. What is your PvP rank by the way? Did your team progress further then mine did in the last NA ToL?

I didn´t watch the last ToL.

Honest question here:

How many warriors played there with gs?
Those who played were able to win?

Its a ground targeted skill that creates a fire field. You dont need to hit someone to deploy the fire field.
Its not a bug, its working as intended.

Daishi.6027:

Standing on a point with my war, thief comes up… I get momentum he runs and resets.

Thief comes back I get momentum, he runs and resets.

Thief comes back a third time, gets impatient/risky and dies.

War is fine, just have to out play your opponent. Don’t just pop all your stances and be like “/gg”

if you are bad and can’t out play a thief, try running celestial as a crutch.

You almost make me believe that thieves have no tools to win against warriors, because someone must be bad player to loose against one thief.

dancingmonkey.4902:

nicknamenick.2437:

Normally you get 1 adrenaline per hit, this doesnt affect a burst skills

Since Anet is changing the way adrenaline works
(you spend ALL adrenaline even when miss)

I think it would be helpfull to give adrenaline when you do succesfully land a burst.

Ofc there should be a FIXED (1-5..) amount of adrenaline you get no mather what burst skill (or else flurry/combustive shot will give waaay to much ofc )

What do you think?

Does this mean cleanses should add conditions and spending gold should return gold?

The ideology here reminds me of the mortgage lenders before the crash. You wouldn’t happen to work in the lending business would you?

Actualy there are at least on profession that when they dodge, they gain endurance. (they waste endurance and gain endurance by wasting it)
There is other when they enter death shroud they have a skill to gain life force. (they loose life force when in DS but they can gain life force when in DS).

To OP:

You can already gain adrenaline by spending adrenaline if you trait 6 points in the last line.

You spent 30 points and gain 10.

The thing is nobody compalined about Arcing-slice and ANet nerfed it.
A big number on people complained about torment on auto attack on mesmer and clones (mesmer included) and ANet let that go.
This is how they “listen” to players…

The thing is nobody compalined about Arcing-slice and ANet nerfed it.
A big number on people complained about torment on auto attack on mesmer and clones (mesmer included) and ANet let that go.

This is how they “listen” to players…

If you spend 6 points in the last trait line you can achieve that.
10 points of adrenaline (1bar) for a lvl 3 burst skill.

The nerfs will be huge against good oponents because you will have a hard time hiting with your f1 bursts.

Against bad / average players wont be the same as before but the nerf wont be that big.

darres.8203:

no…..
I’m saying warriors SHOULD lose their adrenaline because the skill costs resources to execute
I just gave an example that thieves SPEND initiative for every skills they use even if
their targets dodge or MISSES, they don’t just get it back

if you’re ganna compare 2 classes then make the right comparison
stealth is a status, = to your endure pain
adrenaline is a resource = to initiative

comprende?

So we can use eviscerate or any f1 burst skills over and over again until we hit the oponent as long we have Endure Pain up?

This is new to me…..

unlucky.9285:

I have an even better change.. get rid of them. immunity with 0 drawbacks should never be a thing and this will never be an esport while this trash is in the game.. what is skilled about click.. now you cant do anything to me gf

I cant remember a single immunity in this game without drawbacks.

I can only see this working with f2/f3/f4 skills on warriors. And they would need to replace those utilities with something usefull.
Without that you need to make all classes do the same otherwise warrior will be the only in that situation.

Example: turret enginier / spirit ranger / thief venon / elementalist summons / mesmer phantasms / necro pets / guardian spirit weapons.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Does reducing the torment from 12s to 8s really matter at all? I mean if you leave it on for 8s you will 100% die just like if you leave it on for 12s. So it really doesn’t matter in the slightest.

The only reason I can possibly see for not nerfing this skill is with adrenaline degenning out of combat then the main weapon to use with offhand sword (axe) will probably be nerfed more than any other weapon on warrior.

I never understand this change though. How hard was it to just make it 3 stacks of torment instead of 5? Or increase the CD to 25s.

Even at 8 seconds of torment this skill is absurd. Think about it logically:
1, 15s cd (compare to other 15s cd skills and see the power level)
2, Harder to cleanse than other skills
3, 5 stacks of torment is a huge amount
4, Almost no cast time
5, Basically zero animation
6, A ranged skill so cant be kited easily

All this for 5 stacks of torment on a 15s cd is ridiculous. It is so overpowered. I would swap any weapon skill on any other class in the game for this skill. It is the best weapon skill in the game all things considered.

The only thing this skill need is a proper animation + 0.5 cast time. Other than that it already can be blocked/reflected/removed/give it back to the warrior/dodged/blinded.
With the cast time and good animation is in a perfect spot.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Emphatic bond: Pet periodically removes 3 conditions from you.

Impale>EB kicks in and removes the torment>1 second later you have 2 stacks>then 3…

Even if you cleanse the first stack of torment, the remaining 4 will still apply themselves when using EB.

However in fairness, duel sword warrior is the gentle and highly forgiving build that makes newer and average players feel good. Because of this, as soon as you see the 2 swords, 99% of time it is always the opening attack they’ll use before swapping out to the ubiquitous longbow.

EB removes 3 conditions periodically. So it can clean just one stack of torment or clean all stacks plus burning and bleeding in one time.

I had many problems with lag in pvp.

I contacted the suport for some assistance and they gave me a way do know if the problem is on my side or on their servers:

Get the program “pingplotter.”

When you start the match (not before) type “/ip” and put the number on the pingplotter to trace.

Play normally.
When you get lag or dc go to pingplotter and see if you are losing trafic before or after reaching ANet servers.

Take a screenshot and send it to ANet suport with the issues you have experienced if you have issues after the traffic arrives at ANet servers.
If you are losing trafic before reaching ANet servers you should contact your ISP.

Josh Davis.6015:

If I remember the correctly from discussions with our server programmer, this is something we could add as a “nice to have” check in the matchmaking system, but I don’t think it could be something that would be 100% required to start a game. As you mentioned, making this a requirement for roster creation would add a considerable amount of time to the queue.

Not to mention every match has 10 players and there’s only 8 professions. 4v4, anetpls.

Well why dont the matchmaking system divide the classes equally for each side and dont alow changing teams during match?

Jayden Ennok.3687:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Prince.7198:

Paavotar.3971:

BrunoBRS.5178:

“spam 1 through 5, swap, repeat” would become even more proeminent.

This 1 to 5 spam is unique ability of warriors, don’t take that snowflake thing from us please! I want to spam!

But more seriously, 5 seconds is really short time to be honest. I would even argue it’s a bit too powerful for warriors already, I don’t want to see thieves and what not swapping like warriors do.

That is a rediculous statement. The only class that would not benefit from faster swapping (or where it would not be OP) is thief since the cooldowns of both weaponsets are shared through the initiative system. Spam all your skills in 1 weapon set means no skills of the other set can be used till initiative has regenerated!

Just a note:

With quick pocket thiefs would abuse the 5 seconds swap, because they can use the same skill after changing weapons unlike other professions.

That’s not so hard to change (hint: add cooldown), it’s actually the smallest problem that would arise with lower wep swap cooldown.

Thats the point.

“The only class that would not benefit from faster swapping (or where it would not be OP) is thief since the cooldowns of both weaponsets are shared through the initiative systemFor thief to be the only class"

Thief would need adjustments for that change to not alow abuse. So the text in bold its not true.

Prince.7198:

Paavotar.3971:

BrunoBRS.5178:

“spam 1 through 5, swap, repeat” would become even more proeminent.

This 1 to 5 spam is unique ability of warriors, don’t take that snowflake thing from us please! I want to spam!

But more seriously, 5 seconds is really short time to be honest. I would even argue it’s a bit too powerful for warriors already, I don’t want to see thieves and what not swapping like warriors do.

That is a rediculous statement. The only class that would not benefit from faster swapping (or where it would not be OP) is thief since the cooldowns of both weaponsets are shared through the initiative system. Spam all your skills in 1 weapon set means no skills of the other set can be used till initiative has regenerated!

Just a note:

With quick pocket thiefs would abuse the 5 seconds swap, because they can use the same skill after changing weapons unlike other professions.

xbutcherx.3861:

coglin.1867:

xbutcherx.3861:

coglin.1867:

I simply want to have congruency between how CI procs with the all the F1 burst skills. If a nerf is required when one skill is over powering the others, then yes. That is how you keep the power creep out of the game. This has happened to every profession.

So why LB burst and not Hammer burst? they are the same AoE.

Because one procs C.I. 100% of the time, whether it actually hits a opponent or not. The other one does not.

If LB procs w/out hitting then is clear is a bug and nothing else. The trait clearly states that Gain adrenaline when hit. Remove a condition for every bar of adrenaline spent, and in order to spent all bars you need to hit something.
I have no tested myself but asking for a nerf instead of a fix is way different.

Longbow f1 always creates a fire field. The other player dont need to be there to the fire field be deployed. So that is not a bug and will never be.
Thats why its good with CI. Every other warrior f1 burst can be easely avoided so CI is not that great with those setups.

And that is the main reason longbow is a MUST for warriors. After the patch longbow f1 will be less used unless warriors dont use any other burst skill.

phirefox.2568:

nicknamenick.2437:

zaxon.6819:

i agree with pindown being more telegraphed.. so heres the deal.. ill trade you ileap for pindown.. and we will call it a day.

these arguments are so bad.

But sure and now place it on my GS so i can have a 100% 100b all the time just like you can with blurred frenzy

Mesmer Sword has the second-weakest Sword AA in the Game (Powerwise), and if you actually take the Warrior’s Sword’s bleeding application (even on builds with 0 conditiondamage) in mind, it may become the actual weakest Sword AA in the Game.

Blurred fency has a damage-coeffcient of (2.4). In Comparison, the Warrior’s Greatsword has (5.5) on 100b, (2.8) on Whirlwind Attack, (1.7) on Rush and and (1.5) on Blade Trail ( giving the blade hits two times); Arcing Slice (although never really used) has a modifier of (1.3). 100blades alone outdamages Blurred Fency by far , and if you forced your opponent to dodge twice (which isn’t hard as warrior, giving the sheer amount of hard-hitting attacks), and used 100b mid-melee range, you would have already outdamaged Blurred Fency by the time your opponent got out of your attacking-cone – And you don’t even have to use inmob for that. In case you actually inmobilize your foe, a full Blurred Fency will not even down Soft Targets in one Swoop – but 100blades certainly does.

Just a side note:

When you compare hundred blades damage against blurred frenzy you forget some things.

1) Usually Blurred Frenzy will be helped with shatter damage as well (The combo usually is not only BF alone). That is one hability some classes have to use diferent damage skills at the same time.

2) Blurred Frenzy evades attacks.

So there are advantages and disadvantages with each weapon set.

I just dont agree with ILeap and the torment on autoattack.
At least give players the possibility to see and avoid ILeap and revert the changes on scepter auto attack.

The other changes were neeed imo.

What they missed was the nerf on DE. (at least a CD is necessary).

Grebcol.5984:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Zord.6130:

The warrior adrenaline rework is good for thieves actually, since they shouldn’t have many problems in dodging Eviscerate or Earthshaker.
Also, the dagger buff is cool and LS will make a lot more people complain about it.
Really hope that the mesmer’s scepter auto attack doesn’t get through.

This.

I think the cleaving buff was the best buff for thiefs.

Not everyone is playing a Warr.Did u think about vs Mesmer? This kitten cleave will destroy now clones, when mesmer sits near his clones.This Cleave isnt only a buff, it can be also a nerv!
They should really buffing more condi cleanse and Traps/ rework P/P than this kittening cleave.

I dont remember the last time i played a war in pvp and war have the same issues with clones other cleave professions have.

I was thinking that with good positioning it would be possible to backstab 2 people at once. (only after patch we will if that will be possible).
I was thinking also when you are hiting someone downed after patch you will also hit someone who is resing him.

Thief received little buffs on other areas, but this “little” one will be a huge buff imo.

Ofc you have a point agains clone of death traits from mesmer. But that should be nerfed by ANet.

Zord.6130:

The warrior adrenaline rework is good for thieves actually, since they shouldn’t have many problems in dodging Eviscerate or Earthshaker.
Also, the dagger buff is cool and LS will make a lot more people complain about it.
Really hope that the mesmer’s scepter auto attack doesn’t get through.

This.

I think the cleaving buff was the best buff for thiefs.

ellesee.8297:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Thieves were designed to be mobile my frands! But Vee Wee thinks blinks are thuper overpowered! Blinking away is fine! Blinking away onto a ledge 8 stories up and through a wall, not fine! Vee Wee thinks certain blink spots are thilly and should be removed! But Thief mobility is ok! It’s annoying for sure, but Vee Wee knows without it they would just be useless!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

blinks are thuper overpowered! Blinking away is fine! Blinking away onto a ledge 8 stories up and through a wall, not fine! Vee Wee thinks certain blink spots are thilly and should be removed!

This could also work.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

silentnight warrior.2714:

When, as you said, thiefs start to using pistol 3 skill or sword 2 only 3 times in a row and get without iniciative thats is a good thing because it punish thiefs from spamming. Right now thats not true.

?

How is that not true?

Pistol three X3 is 12 initiative,

Infil strike X3 is 15.

For a gap closer? By the time the thief gets to you after whiffing twice, he’d be a sandbag.

Spamming is already heavily punished.

I will try to post a video for the amount of times i can do those skills.

BrunoBRS.5178:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Just to people who just dont read the first topic:

I´m talking only about:

• Infiltrator strike (sword 2 skill).

• Shadow Shot (d/p 3 skill).

This skills require a target to be used so they are not used to escape.

i´m not talking about HS (it can be chilled/criple) or IA (high cost / low spam) or Steal (have CD) or IS (have CD)

and yet, your suggestion affects ALL initiative skills. you can’t be so blind that you don’t see it in your own argument.

but let’s entertain you for a bit:

• infiltrator strike: thief misses it, thief has to spend more initiative to port all the way back to the original location (and it can be interrupted now, since it has a cast time after people like you were QQing about it) before they can even try again. infiltrator strike is not a skill thief uses to chase a running target, it’s a skill they use to engage, and to disengage when things go badly. total cost for spamming this skill: 5 ini per attempt, not to mention being sent back and thus losing target.

• shadow shot: has all the weaknesses of any projectile attack. you can reflect, dodge (it has a really obvious animation), LOS, freaking sidestep, outrun, anything. costs 4 ini per attempt, and a D/P thief that wastes too much initiative trying to connect shadow shot will be dead if it finally lands, because they’ll have no ini for black powder + HS.

seriously, OP, if you’re literally the only person in a thread that’s crossed the 100 post mark that thinks you’re right, and even people that do not play thief think you’re wrong, then maybe it’s time to rethink things.

I was not expecting that thiefs would give me reason In fact i was expecting the usual “l2p and thiefs are weak”. Some tried….

By the way you dont lose target when using infiltrator return and if the target get out of range for sword 2 the thief will use other gap closers to compensate like those i posted above. I dont have issues with that, only with the spamming the same skill in a matter of seconds.

And you are only seing this as a thief but that is normal.

Just to people who just dont read the first topic:

I´m talking only about:

• Infiltrator strike (sword 2 skill).

• Shadow Shot (d/p 3 skill).

This skills require a target to be used so they are not used to escape.

i´m not talking about HS (it can be chilled/criple) or IA (high cost / low spam) or Steal (have CD) or IS (have CD)

Chicago Jack.5647:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Actually thief can deny good positioning to other classes with ports

I think you don’t really know what “good positioning” means. Just because a person is up on a cliff doesn’t mean they automatically have “good positioning.”

Right, because against that kind of movement there is no good positioning.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

silentnight warrior.2714:

“Ability to reset
You complain that they can go in fight and out? What else should they do with tools Anet gave them? They can’t stand mid fight like guards or wars due lack of survival, they can’t really do much dmg from far like engis or eles (cmon sb is so beaten it is a joke of weapon set now, literary only reason to use it is IA and pp was never viable, tnks anet).”

I didn´t complain about this. In fact the penality should only exist in combat mode. Out of combat thiefs should spam what they want.

Coming from a warrior, if a thief was not able to reset once I locked onto him, they would guaranteed be dead.

Don’t kitten their class. It’s fine.

I didn’t say anything about reset. The skills i mentioned require target to be used (attack).

NinjaEd.3946:

silentnight warrior.2714:

“Spammable Spells
I think OP is missing the point that due to repeatable nature of the thief weapon spells, those spells are kept very weak in comparison to weapon sets of other classes. That is why thieves are often forced to chain few skills just to do anything meaningful.”

My sugestions will not deny thiefs to spaming skills. It will punish them from abusing some skills. And thiefs can do as other professions do, use other movement spells to negate the iniciative penality.
The only class you can “compare” in movement spells are Guardians with their ports, they do port, blind and then they have a CD.
In every other class their movements are not instant and they are affected with chill / criple (except mesmer with ports but even those have CD and necro in DS but that skill have a good tell and a CD).

“Ability to reset
You complain that they can go in fight and out? What else should they do with tools Anet gave them? They can’t stand mid fight like guards or wars due lack of survival, they can’t really do much dmg from far like engis or eles (cmon sb is so beaten it is a joke of weapon set now, literary only reason to use it is IA and pp was never viable, tnks anet).”

I didn´t complain about this. In fact the penality should only exist in combat mode. Out of combat thiefs should spam what they want.

“Ability to stay on target
You have issue with their “stickiness” to the target? Well, their most dmg comes from melee(and is SINGLE target), they have positioning requirements unlike other classes”

Actually thief can deny good positioning to other classes with ports (again one more strength with thiefs ports) and they will be buffed to deal damage to two targets at once and they dont said anything about decreasing damage on attacks so its a win for thiefs.

“Steal is an issue? Can be dodged, is very predictable if you have some exp with/vs thief and is actually a CD that can be completely wasted unlike some other spells (sup combustive shot).”

Steal is very strong but have a CD. I dont have problems with steal. (And traited steal is amazing)

There are no skills that can be abused on thief. Have you seen the nerfs they’ve done over the past few months including the upcoming ones?

-Sb #3 spam? Gone, disco took over.
-Sword/dagger #3 spam? Won’t be gone, but won’t be executed as much after the sept patch.
-Heartseeker spam? You shouldn’t be dying to this, and if they have to run away using this then take it as a win.
-Pistol whip spam? Costs 6 initiative and has a very obvious wind up animation. Additionally for this skill to do anything they have to be pretty glassy which means if they miss it simple cc or conditions and they will either run or die trying.
-cluster bomb spam? Umm… you can’t hit them?
-Choking gas spam? Nuff said.
-Unload spam? Terrible damage and also, you can’t hit them?
-Death blossom spam? See above.
-CnD spam? What game mode can you do this in?
-Shadow strike spam? How about don’t run at them like a kitten.
-etc.

You really think you’re doing justice by nerfing our combat by saying it won’t effect us ooc? In that case if a warrior uses rush or whirling attack in combat to escape they are instead ported directly to jail and fined 100 gold.

The 2 target cap on dagger is not by any means a buff thief wanted or needs. It will not effect backstab, nor should it and from what I’m seeing it won’t effect our endurance gain so it does just about nothing but help deal with aa. Ever see a thief just hitting 1 and succeed? We can’t cycle our aa chain for long without completely exposing ourselves, it’s only for a little pressure and then we bounce.

You’re not thinking your nerfs through and its only making more people angry with you making this discussion go no where.

The issue is with spaming movement skills.

Jagstang.6912:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Prince.7198:

Decrease our mobility?? then give us more armor, max health and we can be warriors! Difference warrior <—> thief is mobility at the price of survivability. Warrior hits just as hard as thieves on a non moving target, however thief is able to do more damage because mobility allows him to land more attacks than warrior. That is the class mechanic. deal. with. it.

Nobody talked about decreasing mobility. Just introducing the need to not spam it.

So introducing the need not to spam mobility isn’t actually decreasing mobility? Go on.

In combat mobility? There would be no nerf. Just the need of using other gap closers in that window of time. And thief have options to do that even with weapon swap.

Prince.7198:

Decrease our mobility?? then give us more armor, max health and we can be warriors! Difference warrior <—> thief is mobility at the price of survivability. Warrior hits just as hard as thieves on a non moving target, however thief is able to do more damage because mobility allows him to land more attacks than warrior. That is the class mechanic. deal. with. it.

Nobody talked about decreasing mobility. Just introducing the need to not spam it.

“Spammable Spells
I think OP is missing the point that due to repeatable nature of the thief weapon spells, those spells are kept very weak in comparison to weapon sets of other classes. That is why thieves are often forced to chain few skills just to do anything meaningful.”

My sugestions will not deny thiefs to spaming skills. It will punish them from abusing some skills. And thiefs can do as other professions do, use other movement spells to negate the iniciative penality.
The only class you can “compare” in movement spells are Guardians with their ports, they do port, blind and then they have a CD.
In every other class their movements are not instant and they are affected with chill / criple (except mesmer with ports but even those have CD and necro in DS but that skill have a good tell and a CD).

“Ability to reset
You complain that they can go in fight and out? What else should they do with tools Anet gave them? They can’t stand mid fight like guards or wars due lack of survival, they can’t really do much dmg from far like engis or eles (cmon sb is so beaten it is a joke of weapon set now, literary only reason to use it is IA and pp was never viable, tnks anet).”

I didn´t complain about this. In fact the penality should only exist in combat mode. Out of combat thiefs should spam what they want.

“Ability to stay on target
You have issue with their “stickiness” to the target? Well, their most dmg comes from melee(and is SINGLE target), they have positioning requirements unlike other classes”

Actually thief can deny good positioning to other classes with ports (again one more strength with thiefs ports) and they will be buffed to deal damage to two targets at once and they dont said anything about decreasing damage on attacks so its a win for thiefs.

“Steal is an issue? Can be dodged, is very predictable if you have some exp with/vs thief and is actually a CD that can be completely wasted unlike some other spells (sup combustive shot).”

Steal is very strong but have a CD. I dont have problems with steal. (And traited steal is amazing)

BrunoBRS.5178:

Mayama.1854:

BrunoBRS.5178:

warriors lose adrenaline when they miss their burst. thieves lose initiative. it’s the same thing. so for the love of god stop this stupid crusade against thieves. anyone misses a skill, the skill goes on cooldown. a thief misses a skill, their global cooldown goes down, like everyone else’s. there’s absolutely nothing else to this discussion.

Its different you cant shut down a thief with perma chill and inititative is the only reason why you cant play a block mesmer. So the initiative system gives an advantage. Saying that its equal is simply not true.

it’s a tradeoff. we are less punished by chill, but we have one cooldown for all 10 skills. ever noticed how thief builds only highlight a single weapon set? that’s because swapping weapons as a thief doesn’t do anything to our ini pool unless you bring a grandmaster trait, and even then it’s not free 5 skills. so while you can rotate through all your weapon skills, swap, rotate through those, swap back, repeat, thieves have to manage a single set, because we can’t keep this “flow” of using all skills and swapping weapons.

we get the choice to use any weapon skill we have, at the cost of not being able to use a bunch of them in quick succession (contrary to popular belief).

an example to put it into context:

thief can use headshot 3 times in a row. annoying? yeah. unfair? no. because now he is locked out of all other 7 weapon skills that have cooldowns. he chose to spend all his weapon cooldown on shutting someone down, and now he has to wait a few seconds until he has access to any skill again. meanwhile, the person he shut down still has at least 5 skills that are unaffected by headshot.

example 2, if a thief misses cloak and dagger, he can opt to do so again, but regardless of whether he hits or not the second time, he doesn’t have any more CD left. so if he misses the second CnD, he can’t swap to shortbow and infiltrator strike out of it, he can’t use flanking strike, or heartseeker, or anything. using a single skill twice locked the thief out of 8 skills at once.

how can this be considered spamming and free of punishment?

Slowly you are getting there.

There ARE skills that punish the thief for spaming them. Not all skills do that.
In the beginning thief needed to use iniciative management with traits to be able to spam skills.
After the iniciative buff that is no longer true.

Thats why i sugested a penality for using the same movement skill in the next 6/7 seconds after using it for the first time.

When, as you said, thiefs start to using pistol 3 skill or sword 2 only 3 times in a row and get without iniciative thats is a good thing because it punish thiefs from spamming. Right now thats not true.

Other thing, you only need iniciative to 4 skills in every thief weapon, not 5. Even the special on stealth abilities on number 1 skill like backstab dont consume iniciative.
And you can replenish your iniciative completely in 15 seconds (assuming max iniciative) without doing nothing. With traits you take way less.

By the way none of your movement skills (ports) and iniciative are afected by chill so it makes even more sense to punish spaming this skills.

BrunoBRS.5178:

silentnight warrior.2714:

BrunoBRS.5178:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Narkodx.1472:

silentnight warrior.2714:

“You guys clearly need to learn what it means to play thief properly without relying on spamming skills or cheesy builds”

This is what i want.

You are clearly inexperienced. No thief spams one skill to kill the opponent. PERIOD
If you die to a thief spamming one skill you know where you are on the skill level totem pole right? The bottom

You guys realize this thread will literally go nowhere right!?

None of you are presenting any thoughtful arguments. They are not going to nerf the profession because you are bad at PvP. If you want to make meaningful changes to the class/game then actually give something back to the profession

6 second cool down or increasing initiative on skills used consecutively is moronic – even if something like that were implemented what will you gjve back? Flat nerfs with no compensation are not happening. L-2-P

Who talked about losing to a thief pressing only one button?

if you don’t lose to one, then it’s not an issue, is it? and if it’s not an issue, it doesn’t need a nerf.

/thread

Again, who talked about that?

look, either you have a problem with thieves that spam, or you don’t. if you don’t, there’s no need for nerfs. if you do, as everyone (including yourself) pointed out, a thief that spams skills is a bad, inefficient thief.

Just a few points:

I can kill warriors with thiefs, mesmers, necros, rangers, elem. That will say that i dont have problems with warriors, so in your logic warrior is fine, no nerfs needed.

In my logic warrior needed to be punished for missing bursts skills. Every class should be punished for that.
Thiefs can avoid this issue because iniciative is to easy to control / gain.

The fact is it should be a more severe punisment for thiefs since the beginning just because they can spam the same skill over and over.
They should be able to do that, but if they miss they should have a bigger punishment.

BrunoBRS.5178:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Narkodx.1472:

silentnight warrior.2714:

“You guys clearly need to learn what it means to play thief properly without relying on spamming skills or cheesy builds”

This is what i want.

You are clearly inexperienced. No thief spams one skill to kill the opponent. PERIOD
If you die to a thief spamming one skill you know where you are on the skill level totem pole right? The bottom

You guys realize this thread will literally go nowhere right!?

None of you are presenting any thoughtful arguments. They are not going to nerf the profession because you are bad at PvP. If you want to make meaningful changes to the class/game then actually give something back to the profession

6 second cool down or increasing initiative on skills used consecutively is moronic – even if something like that were implemented what will you gjve back? Flat nerfs with no compensation are not happening. L-2-P

Who talked about losing to a thief pressing only one button?

if you don’t lose to one, then it’s not an issue, is it? and if it’s not an issue, it doesn’t need a nerf.

/thread

Again, who talked about that?

Raven.9603:

thief mobility is not the problem. thieves are squishy, the mobility is basically a class survival mechanic. their unlimited in-combat restealthing could use a change, but thats a GW2 design flaw and any limits on incombat stealth should come with a base survivability increase for thieves (eg more HP).

warrior mobility is a huge problem and deserves a few threads of its own. dogged march, holebrek runes and lemongrass is basically unkiteable and is arguably the most common wvw setup. add that in with all the gap closers available as both weapon and utility skills.

why is the class that has the most health, the most armor, the easiest access to huge sustain, and has the most (or nearly the most) damage simply because unlike everyone else, they can afford to gear for it…. why is that class also the class that is the most impervious to being kited? if any class should have poor mobility, should it not be the illiterate overweight lumbering lards with their giant plate mail and hammers?

there is literally no sacrifice in playing a warrior. big damage, big survivability, big sustain, big mobility, stability, CC, they even gave you very reliable condition removal. the only advantage other players have against warriors is the breathtaking amount of autism exhibited by so many players of the warrior profession.

Why you dont create a topic about that?
By the way you can see the problem with warrior and cannot see the problem with thief… right…

Narkodx.1472:

silentnight warrior.2714:

“You guys clearly need to learn what it means to play thief properly without relying on spamming skills or cheesy builds”

This is what i want.

You are clearly inexperienced. No thief spams one skill to kill the opponent. PERIOD
If you die to a thief spamming one skill you know where you are on the skill level totem pole right? The bottom

You guys realize this thread will literally go nowhere right!?

None of you are presenting any thoughtful arguments. They are not going to nerf the profession because you are bad at PvP. If you want to make meaningful changes to the class/game then actually give something back to the profession

6 second cool down or increasing initiative on skills used consecutively is moronic – even if something like that were implemented what will you gjve back? Flat nerfs with no compensation are not happening. L-2-P

Who talked about losing to a thief pressing only one button?

BrunoBRS.5178:

silentnight warrior.2714:

TheBandicoot.5294:

Yes sure, because if you avoided one IS, FS, LS, SS or whatever the thief gets back the initiative spent in the process, right. Gosh, how can people be so blind? A thief fuels his attacks with initiative which is a global unified countdown system across ALL weapon sets!! if he spends initiative on one skill, he literally makes all skills go on a cooldown. And if you manage to avoid a skill which costs iniative, you successfully made the thief spend initative for nothing.

And then he uses the same skill right again. Iniciative gain is too high and the penality for missing is to low.

i should link you to this thread on the thief forums where a new thief player tried your mentality, and found out that he’d run out of initiative and die before anything meaningful was achieved.

i swear people don’t realize that keeping the initiative pool high enough to have options is not an easy thing.

I play thief everyday and i can say that its not hard to keep iniciative high enough to use the skill i want.