Guild Wars 2

Venon Share is OP in small groups / 1v1 with thief guild. Venons are already too good for suporting dps / immo targets.

Me Games Ma.8426:

They fixed iLeap to match the description? Well here’s the description of Pistol Whip

• Dual Wield. Pistol-whip your foe, stunning them, then slash repeatedly with your sword.
• Damage(9x): xyz
• Stun: 1/2 seconds
• Range: 130

What else does it? Ahh I know! You evade while attacking. pls “fix” it anet. The skill doesn’t match its description.

They really need to fix that too.

TheBandicoot.5294:

I love it how everyone who defends warrior keeps forgetting that eviscerate isnt the only problem. If you decide to dodge ALL eviscerates, you do not have any endurance left for the remaining attacks of the warrior. And auto attacks alone hurt a lot. Keep in mind that you need a double dodge to avoid a CC + Eviscerate combo, and keep in mind you simply cannot keep a warrior pressured and at range! Also you seem to ignore the fact that you -NEED- a dodge to avoid eviscerate. Soft-cc remains too shortly in order to be effective and positioning is completly pointless because Eviscerate even homes in midair, doing 180° turns. So your only option is range, which a warrior can cross too quickly for his melee strength.
If Eviscerate would work like Earthshaker it would be far more balanced than now albeit still with a too short cooldown. Earthshaker doesnt home in, and while it is an AoE, because of it’s ground-targeting you can use positioning to avoid it.

Additionally to all this comes the problem that a glass warrior isnt made out of glass. It has too much sustain, a warrior doesn´t have to choose between damage and tankyness. Once again: They´re currently too mobile or too tanky for their damage, or they´re too mobile and too strong for their tankyness.

So how about some constructive ideas other than L2P? It cannot be a sole L2P issue, period. The same was with thieves and then they got their rightful nerfs. Now the warrior´s at it. There were so many wonderful ideas in this thread which would just balance warriors and not deem them useless.

You have time to regenerate endurance normaly between eviscerates. Plus sigils / vigor / evades / ports / blocks / blinds.

“If you decide to dodge ALL (insert skill here), you do not have any endurance left for the remaining attacks of the (insert class here).
What you described its normal to every class.

I´m not expecting big changes to each class. Warrior now is depending on runes / sigils / might to deal good damage so they just need to reebalance those things. Thief is the same with the problem of ports / evades and boon steal. They should only rebalance a little those things and done with it.

Cygnus.6903:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Cygnus.6903:

The tactics changes don’t seem that bad, except for the quickness suggestion. Come on, the last thing this game needs is even faster ressing… And your allies too? Teams would bring a ranger just to get downed.

What would you sugest to improve the trait?
Ex: Affect only people who is ressing and ends if they cancel / end the ress?

Do not have a trait that affects revive speed at all. Seriously. Revive speed in this game is a sickness.

Instead, one could try something like other classes have that spawn an effect when starting to res, like the guardian bubble that blocks projectiles.

Suggestions;
-When you start to res somebody, knockback nearby opponents
-When you start to res, gain stability for 2 seconds

Something like that, with appropriate cooldowns of course.

I liked very much the first sugestion you made. (When you start to res somebody, knockback nearby opponents)
It can be a way to stop stealth stomps.
Good one.

grifflyman.8102:

I always thought powerful banners was kitten, I mean it can crit for around 2k, but it’s not worth it.

Maybe if they applied confusion in a small area around the target?

Aply confussion instead of damage? I like it, but the mesmer QQ would be huge. But if people want that i will add in the notes.

And if you knock back players in his radius (30sec cd)? You use battle standart and can give your team mate a chance to get out the area alive.

Cygnus.6903:

The tactics changes don’t seem that bad, except for the quickness suggestion. Come on, the last thing this game needs is even faster ressing… And your allies too? Teams would bring a ranger just to get downed.

What would you sugest to improve the trait?
Ex: Affect only people who is ressing and ends if they cancel / end the ress?

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Agree with op. Currently the warrior is way to passive. Wvw is being infested with cheap ‘i don’t know how to play the game, but i’m smart enough to spam the stuns on hammer’ warriors. And with the supposed changes, it will require more skill, but not become truly weaker, so mission complete, less warrior trolls in wvw.

The only passive thing warrior have is HS with AH (passive healing). Other than that he is always working the keyboard.

Daniel.2495:

Its ok for a class to have high mobility.
its not ok tho, if it has high mobility, and 20k hp, and it can do 12k dmg on a single hit(evi.)
there are some builds that are seriously op in wvw, that needs to be adressed.

Problem in WvW its not warrior related. Its runes / foods / sigils.

Ok. I believe you are still playing with low skilled players. We talk when you get better matches. See you then

Warrior is fine. They will nerf the foods / runes and inteligence sigils. Warrior by it self its fine

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Hitman.5829:

Terrahero.9358:

30seconds of regeneration isnt all that amazing. 130hp/sec, that doesnt in anyway compare to Warriors passive healing. Who, without gearing for healingpower get 362 from Healing Signet and another 120per second from Adrenal Health.
No contest, Warrior is far and beyond much better in this department. So i dont see how this is relevant.

There are time gaps in the battle where the mezmer becomes invisible, or plain simple distracts the enemy. During that time the Mezmer is not being attack, this means that he is gaining regeneration WITHOUT his HP bar being affected. On contrast, a warrior during battle is healing BUT the damage to his HP is CONSTANTLY affected.

• If healing signet gives approximately 400 HP/sec and you are getting hit for 400 damage every second, then that nullifies the effect of healing signet.

• On contrast, you cannot put constant pressure on the mezmer because of all his teleports, invisibility, dazing, confusing clones. This gives the Mezmer some time to regenerate his health with out his HP being affected. THIS MY FRIENDS IS PASSIVE PLAY!

So the warrior with his big health pool would just not give a kitten, because he would actually not even taking any damage, while the mesmer would have to use all his tricks to actually mitigate the damage taken.

What is your kitten argument here?

While one is doing active damage with passive defense the other is doing passive damage with active defense. Passive damage will always be bigger than 400 HPS.

Advent.6193:

silentnight warrior.2714:

You are wrong. Mesmer is the ONLY profession in the game who avoided to be nerfed because ANet listened mesmers.

The trait DE was anounced to be nerfed but ANet didn’t go ahead with it based on mesmers feedback.

Maybe because they re-ran the numbers and realized exactly how bad that change would’ve shafted the majority of Mesmer builds? Don’t get me wrong, I’d be all for changing DE … but not unless baseline clone generation was modified to take that Trait’s slack.
(Ironically enough, that nerf -had it have gone through- would do nothing but increase the number of Phantasm Mesmers you see running around. Thus leading to even more topics like this, RE: Mesmer and “passive” sources of damage.)

Also, consider that the one time ANet devs “listened” to Mesmer players worth a kitten. Ask Mesmer forumers about the Warden change, see what you come up with.
Let alone how much craziness had to get unleashed to fix Distortion, not so long ago …

I was only saying that some people are always claiming that ANet never listen to mesmers, and that is untrue.

If ANet nerfed the DE trait back then, they would have the need to change some numbers in HP / damage and maybe buff some defensive traits.

Maybe they listen to mesmers was a bad thing.

That was a bug fix. What they need to do its to fix the other bugs related to the skill. After that its fine.

Carighan.6758:

silentnight warrior.2714:

When you can summon one / two phantasm and forget about it while he still does damage from time to time, persue the target while you are worried mostly about your defense.
When you can shatter them and they folow the target anywere he moves and you can still be doing something else.
When you kill the clones and get filled with conditions.
When you drop a field and interrupt everyone in it without need to see what are they doing.

Because this is how a Mesmer plays. Uh huh. Btw, that interrupt on Chaos Storm was fixed half a year ago. :P

Suffice to say, what you are saying about Mesmer is like saying Warriors are best in everything. Wishful thinking that the class which killed you is so overpowered that you had no chance, so you don’t have to justify your mistakes to yourself.

(Not saying that warriors don’t need a nerf, but they’re far from the best in everything)

Like you i know that warrior is not the best at anything. I also know that mesmers play that way, i was only responding to someone who dont know were the passive damage / gameplay come from.

And Chaos Storm still works for me

Terrahero.9358:

30seconds of regeneration isnt all that amazing. 130hp/sec, that doesnt in anyway compare to Warriors passive healing. Who, without gearing for healingpower get 362 from Healing Signet and another 120per second from Adrenal Health.
No contest, Warrior is far and beyond much better in this department. So i dont see how this is relevant.

I also dont see where all that passive damage comes from. Mesmer doesnt have that great of autoattacks. And fantasms dont auto-spam themselves, these are active abilities that need to be cast on a target. Clones dont do any damage worth mentioning, unless used in a Shatter… but thats an active ability.

And stealth, bar i believe one trait, is all actively cast abilities from either weaponskills, utilities or an elite.

So where is all this passive play?

OP was talking about passive damage. People complain about passive healing but are forgeting the passive damage from classes. Thats what OP is saying.

And mesmers can have more than regeneration as a passive defense if they are traited for it (aegis, protection, vigor)

“So where is all this passive play?”

When you can summon one / two phantasm and forget about it while he still does damage from time to time, persue the target while you are worried mostly about your defense.
When you can shatter them and they folow the target anywere he moves and you can still be doing something else.
When you kill the clones and get filled with conditions.
When you drop a field and interrupt everyone in it without need to see what are they doing.

Mesmer is all about passive damage. The only mesmer build i can with see less passive damage is the meta one. And even that have some.

“Last time I checked, anet listen to no one when it comess to the Mesmer.”

You are wrong. Mesmer is the ONLY profession in the game who avoided to be nerfed because ANet listened mesmers.

The trait DE was anounced to be nerfed but ANet didn’t go ahead with it based on mesmers feedback.

As a necro / mesmer you can give the conditions back to the thief. Let them put some good conditions, transfer them and heal yourself.
I also do that against condition warriors.

Curunen.8729:

Blurred frenzy is one thing that could definitely do with a slight damage buff, whatever happens.

If they lower the amout of passive damage, mesmers will need that.

TheBandicoot.5294:

Silentnight, that still doesnt fix the underlying problem. That just makes the warrior susceptible to the condition spammers out there – and the current Meta is already very shifted towards condition tanks. To be honest the condition Meta is out of hand completly. I don´t care for the math which shows a soldier charracter doing slightly more damage than the very same character geared in dire. Condition tanks do more damage than their power-specced counterparts since, you know, condition damage ignores armor. Anyone ignoring this fact is just a blindfolded kitten (self censored here for security… insert favorite word) But that is a whole different story which needs to be adressed. Anyways, removing those runes and food would also ruin a lot of other anti condi specced builds.

No, the change must be done within the warrior class itself. I have stated it multiple times now but nobody seems to ever read or at least answer it. Mobility, damage, sustain – all in one its too much, remove one of them and we´re fine. Remove one part of that equation and the warrior is perfectly balanced. A thief for example has mobility and damage, but lacks sustain.

The thing is i dont know any other class that MUST use runes / traits / foods to be able to land damage and to use their mobility.

Diferent classes = diferent needs.

The changes should be done to the runes / food it self otherwise we are talking about “nerf that profession instead because those runes / foods are usefull in my other profession”.

Everyone knows that those runes + foods are broken. Take them from warriors and see them being snared to dead all the time. And with those modifications mobility on warrior would not be a problem to players anymore.

Olba.5376:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Mayama.1854:

TheBandicoot.5294:

Eviscerate needs to be toned down, tbh its the overall damage which is too much for a warrior´s tankyness and sustain. Or, what i also already said, just make warriors slow/reduce their mobility.

Thats what really bothers me in GW2, its the only mmorpg where kiting classes/builds cant kite. We dont need frostmage WoW level of dominating kiting but something is wrong if a warrior can sit 90% of the time on my face even if I slot every kiting skill on a mage, engi or ranger

What is wrong = Melandru runes and food. Fix them and problem solved

Only if you also “fix” Runes of Krait and +condi duration% food.

And for the record, Runes of Melandru aren’t that much better than Rune of Hoelbrak. Heck, there’s Rune of Antitoxin, which is a condi damage version of Rune of Melandru.

Those need fix too.

Mayama.1854:

TheBandicoot.5294:

Eviscerate needs to be toned down, tbh its the overall damage which is too much for a warrior´s tankyness and sustain. Or, what i also already said, just make warriors slow/reduce their mobility.

Thats what really bothers me in GW2, its the only mmorpg where kiting classes/builds cant kite. We dont need frostmage WoW level of dominating kiting but something is wrong if a warrior can sit 90% of the time on my face even if I slot every kiting skill on a mage, engi or ranger

What is wrong = Melandru runes and food. Fix them and problem solved

Warrior is easy to play but lacks at higher levels. Its normal to ear people saying that you need to know how to fight a warrior in order to beat them.

Well, take that setup to higher pvp levels and see how it goes.
When you need help to fight against good players come here again that people will help you (you will need it).

Me Games Ma.8426:

As a mesmer main I can tell you that if they’d reduce the passive damage the mesmer deals, they’d also increase the active damage. If your thread would achieve that, then all the noob mesmers would be nerfed to the ground but the good mesmer players would recive a really strong buff. Do you really want that? :P I’d support your idea =)

This is true. But they would not buff damage that much because mesmer already can do very good damage. What they probably would do is increase base hp/armour so mesmer can sustain better while attacking.

Hitman.5829:

silentnight warrior.2714:

The 30 sec of regeneration only if you cannot kill his phantasm or if he didn´t shatter them.

Maybe this build? (its noy PU).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJAWRl0npRtlpxGNcrNipxc6quaLSGQDlskxB-TJRAwAAeCA42fwzlAYcZAA

The build exists but you can do more damage with others setups.

The point made here is that passive play needs to be tone down for these kinds of builds. Little by little your hp gets down and keeps going down until you are left with 0 hp and the mezmer kills you. More and more Mezmers are using this in PvP and frankly it is getting annoying that these suckers have permanent regeneration because they are not destroying their clones, if you destroy them you get punish with conditions. So either way you lose!

That build also strip boons and can shut down a class if played right. I´ve seen that build in pvp too ( i dont play it, i prefer 20/20/0/0/30 with torment on shatter).

Passive play needs to be toned down greatly in all builds, passive healing or passive damage needs to go.
The problem is if you do that you need to rework some classes. Mesmer is the king of passive damage by default (this meaning that in every build they are more worried in defense while their phantas / shatters and conditions do the job). Thats unique to mesmer in almost every build. What mesmer have is active defense, they need to work their position constantly to be able to avoid damage.

The 30 sec of regeneration only if you cannot kill his phantasm or if he didn´t shatter them.

Maybe this build? (its noy PU).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJAWRl0npRtlpxGNcrNipxc6quaLSGQDlskxB-TJRAwAAeCA42fwzlAYcZAA

The build exists but you can do more damage with others setups.

“Warrior however… “F1 , oww he dodged, switches to GS – run away 1500 range, 7sec later F1 magic button is ready again, Boom! 12k, 7-10sec, Boom! 15k”. Feel free to input random 2-3k auto atk hits in between.”

Or when he come back dodge again, or as a thief evade or blind spam him, you choose… You can see the warrior all the time.

If people think backstab is balanced against good players then i dont know what are they doing here talking about eviscerate.
If you miss a backstab or if someone evade / block the attack you can try to do it again until the thief get out of stealth.
Try to do that with eviscerate….
And you can spam backstab more often that eviscerate. Thief have some utilities / traits they can use to gain stealth without losing iniciative.

Actually mesmer have very good condition clears. They just dont use the skills / traits they have with that in mind in the meta builds.

ReesesPBC.4603:

Sigmoid.7082:

nearlight.3064:

xbutcherx.3861:

Zacchary.6183:

xbutcherx.3861:

Zacchary.6183:

McWolfy.5924:

If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab

Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)

Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0

Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25

Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)

Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.

just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.

Respond to my comment about firegrab plz mmmkay.

Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?

I have an 80 thief and is quite easy to do that actually, if you never try a thief, I invite to try before you post nonsense.
Thanks

Respond to my comment about firegrab plz.

Electric discharge + lightning strike =1.9 on a short cooldown when using fresh air.
Pheonix = 0.75*2 + 1.7 if they all land
Dragons Tooth = 2.25
Burning speed + ring if fire = 1.2. + 2

Combine any of these with a lightning flash or arcane blast and you have some nice burst. Some is spamable and some is not but on such low cooldowns, 20s or less, you have options besides firegrab. Its more of a finisher than burst.
Not only that but ele also has other attunements and a lot of variety in those skills.

Have to ask the question most ele’s are thinking right now; When did D/D get scepter skills too? I understand they are 2 weapon sets describing different bursts but they are unreliable. Dragon’s tooth will only hit if you pray and a miracle is granted. Burning speed is too predictable already with common rotations and you have to combo it with lightning flash for an almost guaranteed hit. And if you mean for them to actually hit you would usually combo it with Air5 or Earth4 further increasing the cooldown on those bursts dependent on the situation, such as if you used them previously to interrupt or save someone from a stomp. Lightning flash is nice but most builds take almost either full cantrips or full arcane aside from the super yolo glass ele’s which means their survivability is drastically reduced.

What i believe he is trying to say is that they are diferent classes, they rely on diferent mechanics / skills to win the fight.
You cannot compare firegrab to one eviscerate because one set of weapons from elementalist can do much more than one set of weapons from warriors. They got diferent skills / combos. They offer diferent things.

Based on the feedback given in this tread, my friend did some modifications and removed the Greatsword changes from the post. I edited the post, removed the old text and inserted the new one.

Please give feedback from the new proposals and also give sugestions about other things that could be improved.

Narkodx.1472:

THIS VIDEO IS FOR ALL OF YOU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI7dFJhSj2o

P.S. I barely play warrior, It is an easier class to do well with, no dispute there but once you actually reach a certain skill level you don’t fall for eviscerate and learn 2 dodge. One day you guys will get there

Nice vídeo.

Arbalest.4506:

silentnight warrior.2714:

runeblade.7514:

wads.5730:

this has to be a joke right, traited warhorn with shouts and soldier runes is like the most op build against any condi build.

Guardian does the job better.

If you think it is overpowered, submit it to metabattle.com, get peer reviewed, and watch it land on the Meta section.

Even mesmer have better condition clear than that warrior build.

You are welcome to roll mesmer

I have one already. And i keep what i said.

runeblade.7514:

wads.5730:

this has to be a joke right, traited warhorn with shouts and soldier runes is like the most op build against any condi build.

Guardian does the job better.

If you think it is overpowered, submit it to metabattle.com, get peer reviewed, and watch it land on the Meta section.

Even mesmer have better condition clear than that warrior build.

Nice work and nice data.

Anet should look at this when balancing the game. I wasn’t expecting a team with two guardians with a win rate of 70.6% and i was not expecting a double warr team to only have 42.4% win ratio.
What i really was not expecting was the win ratio of the team with a mesmer, 70.5%.

Again, very usefull data. Nice work.

Khenzy.9348:

What’s the problem with Warrior’s Rush? I will seriously never get it. Not that Greatsword wielding Warriors are destroying everyone and making an unplayable meta, gosh.

What about Rocket boots+Rifle+Elixir Gun engineers, Greatsword+Sword Rangers, Dagger+Shortbow thieves, or even FG eles (they can escape at will as long as they have the CD)??

No, stop trying to neuter Warrior mobility. That’s not the cause of Warrior OPness, they had that mobility when they were trash tier, nobody complained then.

I agree that warrior movement is not a issue. But if ANet nerf that movement because the amount of qq in the forum, what is the best way to improve our greatsword?
Right now warrior GS is the most dificult to use (see guardians ans rangers GS, they offer a lot more than ours GS).
Please give sugestions.

My friends goal is to deliver a good amount of changes in the balance sub-forum but it could be really nice if all warriors give their sugestions to that list.

bobomb.5209:

These actually sound pretty nice. Though I doubt any of these suggestions will get considered until it has a lot of support. I personally would really like to use “Revivers Revenge” But it would need some kind of CD.

Hi.

I believe the trait dont need a CD unless you could stack quikness. You need a downed player to activate it and that could be your CD. Or the quikness could end as soon the player get up.

A friend of mine that cannot longer post on the forums asked me to post his toughts about balance here .

This changes are not mine .

“We know people think there are many overpowered traits in the warrior tree, however what people don’t understand is it also has some of the worst and hilarious traits in the game as well. These are some ideas to balance both of them. By bringing down the power of the stronger traits and spreading them around it will make a lot more builds available to the warrior so we are not just locked to a very few. However some of them will be in the same tree whilst others will not.

Nerf : Dogged March.
Buff : Building Momentum.

Remove the regeneration from dogged march, honestly it shouldn’t be so much more powerful then the other classes stuff. However with the recent nerf to Building Momentum, one of the warriors most active traits the skill became useless. Lets give the regeneration and add vigor to Building Momentum to give the warriors more “active” defense and bring down the power of passive defense. This also nerfs popular builds like HAMBOW (X/X/6/X/6.) because it removes that passive regeneration defense from dogged march from it.

Nerf : Cleansing Ire.
Buff : Thick Skin

Remove the Adrenaline Gain when hit from Cleansing Ire and give it to “Thick Skin”. This is a no brainer, seeing as how useless Thick Skin as a trait alone is. You can also change the toughness to be based of your adrenaline as well. Stage 1: X Toughness, Stage 2: X Toughness, Stage 3: X Toughness. This is a great addition and change to Thick Skin, because it makes it so you have to actively manage your toughness. You actually get weaker when your spend your adrenaline. I believe this is how it all should be.

The Tactics line . This line is well known for having the worst minor traits in the entire game. Recently Necromancers shared this title but in Anet’s blessing they actually changed their minion traits to be very good ones. I feel the same should be done for the tactics line. Here are just some ideas.

5 : Using a Healing Skill grants Regenerating Mist to allies. This makes the warrior want to use his healing skills. Of course how much regeneration you get depends on which healing skill you use. Some are far more then others.

15 : You and your allies gain X seconds of quickness when you revive an ally. With a short cooldown. This promotes active play. I think it should give you quickness based on how long it takes to revive someone. This means people aoeing you if it takes longer may get punished for it if they can’t finish off their foe.

25 : Gain Evasion when you use a burst skill. This gives tactics line its own sort of defense, since it doesn’t have as much as the defense line. It is also a major sacrifice. This is to buff support warriors to make them closer to offensive and hambow warriors, it also doesn’t effect the overpowered ones. This is a push to buff the way way way weaker parts of the warrior. You can even make it block instead of evasion so you can make more trait coherence."

makku.2508:

silentnight warrior.2714:

What i didn´t understand here?

The fact that BOTH had ways to deal with each others damage, BOTH win some fights, BOTH had ways / skills to beat the other one.
And from your post its easy o see that your frustation is with eviscerate so i belive you lose some fight because of it.
So what i didn’t understant?

Razor already summed it up perfectly:

Razor.6392:

The fact that the ele, and any other class, has to severely outplay a warrior while landing multiple of their hardest hitting skills, while warrior only has to hit 1-2 successful combos to win?

I think that’s what you didn’t “understant”

You should look up what risk / reward means.

To put it plain and simple:

• If I hit a perfect RTL into Updraft into Burning Speed into Fire Grab combo, that puts me into a good position.

vs.

• If he hits Eviscerate I’m done.

See above

Razor.6392:

silentnight warrior.2714:

makku.2508:

silentnight warrior.2714:

So you were saying that without eviscerate that warrior could not win against you. But it was ok for you to win against him.
Right….
And even with eviscerate you win some and lose some…

You need to work on your reading comprehension.

What i didn´t understand here?

The fact that BOTH had ways to deal with each others damage, BOTH win some fights, BOTH had ways / skills to beat the other one.
And from your post its easy o see that your frustation is with eviscerate so i belive you lose some fight because of it.
So what i didn’t understant?

The fact that the ele, and any other class, has to severely outplay a warrior while landing multiple of their hardest hitting skills, while warrior only has to hit 1-2 successful combos to win?

I think that’s what you didn’t “understant”

You should look up what risk / reward means.

Edit: And by the way, to whoever is saying to “kite” them, how do you do that? Whenever I go against an axe warrior on my ele he’s always right next to me mashing 1 mindlessly. I try to chill, cripple and even immob with earth 3 but those expire so quick it’s almost laughable. The cone skills have a hard time landing because the pro warrior is always right next to me at all times spamming 1.

I miss that one. Thanks for the correction.

Risk vs Reward – If you can kill a warrior that means that he is in risk, the same as you.

What i understand is the feeling that “my class is harder to play so it should beat all others that are easier to play”.

I understand but i dont agree with that. For me its more like a profession to have 5 skills and another one have 10 skills. One should be able to win using only 5 skills and the other should be able to win using 10.

The one with 5 should have bigger damage skills, the one with 10 should have the same damage in 10 skills.
One will try to hit in very specific moments, maximizing his damage, the other will work more but unlike the one with 5, can afford to miss one or two because it will not lose many damage.

If every hard to play profession is the stronger one, then no one will pick the easy ones.
If all of them had the same chance to win then you can aford to play what you like.
And that is how it should be.

With your example i can tell that it was not your build carrying you and it was not the warrior build carrying him. Both win and lose. The way to do it its diferent for every class.

Great changes for ranger. Congrats

“It’s “1 skill” that BURNS through hp like crazy if you connect with the whole thing. The price for that is that it’s hard to connect with the whole thing. That’s just good design.”

Rangers will have a easier to land, ranged and quicker one, with pets giving 6 sec cripple.

The warrior one seems so more balanced.

I really want to see those changes in action, because they could be not as strong as people think. And i would like to play ranger again

Hy TyPin, nice talk here

1 – Hambows dont have burst heals so if you burst them down they have dificulties to recover. (they have defy pain but every class have some sort of immunities – complete or not)
2 – The only reliable way they have to lose conditions is with longbow every 8 – 10 seconds, but if they never change to hammer they lose the abiity to CC and recover with Healing Signet and earthshaker is easely avoided.
3 – They offer low mobility.
4 – They cannot deal with enemy boons
5 – After the nerfs Hambow dont hit hard by it self, it needs might and inteligence sigils to be efective.
6 – You can steal/remove/corrupt their boons so you can reduce greatly their damage output.
7 – You can time your damage / control conditions for after they use the longbow f1 because they will use it anyway for might gain.
8 – You only fight the warrior, so you dont need to pay attention to any sort of AI so you can see his most damage skills (if its not one asura ofc but that aplies to every profession)
9 – They got easy to tell animations.

Every class have weakness, warrior weakness as you said its more related to players skill, than the build for it self, because a good player will beat a hambow, a bad one dont know what to do.

What is your opinion about the thief and elementalist meta build right now? What is their obvious weakness? (without being player skill and knowing the builds / rotations of that class in order to counter them, because that is what it needs to beat a hambow).

Edit: If a profession is easier / harder to play that doesn’t mean that there should be advantage on the harder profession over the easier ones. The less skills you have you should be able to be efective has those classes that have more skills and give more work to be efective.
The profession you choose should be the one you like to play.
I have a blast with my elementalist and its harder to be efective but that dont give me the right to beat any warrior out there just because i have more work. I play ele because i like the chalange, not because i have a guaranted win if i play the profession right.

As NinjaEd said above its a bug but it not pin down related.

makku.2508:

silentnight warrior.2714:

So you were saying that without eviscerate that warrior could not win against you. But it was ok for you to win against him.
Right….
And even with eviscerate you win some and lose some…

You need to work on your reading comprehension.

What i didn´t understand here?

The fact that BOTH had ways to deal with each others damage, BOTH win some fights, BOTH had ways / skills to beat the other one.
And from your post its easy o see that your frustation is with eviscerate so i belive you lose some fight because of it.
So what i didn’t understant?

@TyPin.9860:

Yes it overdoses on condition removal.

“That build have already very good sustain against conditions and you can heal 5000 + remove 4 conditions every 9/11 seconds plus the condition removal on shatters”

Its only with mantra heal and shatter conditions.
You can take the utilities you want because only the heal and shatters gives you enough condition clear (on par with CI from warrior and a warrior to heal for that amount need to stunlock the oponent for a few seconds).
As i said above you can switch runes, sigils, amulet to increase your damage output.

And that is a support build, not a build to contest points because warriors and mesmer have diferent roles. Mesmers are better for roaming than warriors. warriors are better point contestants.

And i agree that when both classes fight there should be made some comparisson (this is too strong, that is weak) and probably that was what made ANet to give warrior more sustain, because against other classes is sustain was too low and his weakness were too strong.

My point about comparing classes is because you cannot expect a glass mesmer holding points against bunkers even if they have good tools for that. And if you build a PU mesmer you can have great surviability and also good damage. What make them useless is the hability for contest points they dont have, not his damage / surviability ratio. But that was ANet decision to do so.

makku.2508:

Yea, that skill is pretty stupid. Took a rather long break some months ago, came back recently, had to kinda get back into the game, catch up to changes etc.

So I ran into this warrior while solo roaming in WvW, started like the typical fight against warriors as D/D ele: Dodge a lot, heal a lot, cleanse a lot but eventually you will outlast that guy and if he doesn’t decide to run even kill him. Then all of a sudden this guy jumps on me and pops a good 50% of my HP in a single skill.

So I’m staring at my toon’s dead body with my mouth wide open, kinda irritated about what just happened. Apparently, that Warrior player believed I put up a good fight, group added me and we did some 1v1s. Well, lets boil it down to this: Eviscerate is pretty ridiculous. Won some lost some, but it never really felt fair. As the ele, there really is no room for error whatsoever, you kitten up once you’re pretty much dead, whereas the warrior really only has to hit Eviscerate and that’s about it.
Out of all the duels I think I won as much as one (1) where I ate an Eviscerate to the face, usually not dodging it was an instant death sentence though, while landing even multiple of my heaviest hitters weren’t anywhere near a guaranteed win of that duel.

Dunno, but it just doesn’t feel right when one guy has to be on the absolute top of his game to have a shot a winning vs. someone who needs to land a single skill to win..

So you were saying that without eviscerate that warrior could not win against you. But it was ok for you to win against him.
Right….
And even with eviscerate you win some and lose some…

SlimChance.6593:

@silentnight

I’m sorry, but that spec does not have “Good damage” as you say. It has maxed out conditions clears, but thats it. Which is kind of the point of why people complain about Warriors. They don’t have to give up anything to do everything. Other classes do. That build is a prime example. The only thing that build does is clears conditions and even then it only does it for so long. Cause as soon as those mantra charges are up, you got nothing.

Hi.

That build does good damage against glass builds. Its the same with warriors, they deal good damage against glass but against bunkers its not good.
You can switch one mantra for another utility you like and arcane thievery its not mandatory, That build have already very good sustain against conditions and you can heal 5000 + remove 4 conditions every 9/11 seconds plus the condition removal on shatters so it gives you even more condition removal than warriors with CI.
I can give that build even more damage if i change runes, sigils, amulet but i lose movement speed (you can minimize this with portal or blink)

“Cause as soon as those mantra charges are up, you got nothing.” When a warrior gets out of stances its the same.

Again you cannot compare mesmer with warrior. Even with warrior having more health and armour a zerker mesmer will have more inate sustain than a zerker warrior.

baylock.1703:

all leaps shood be target based and if ur out of range you dont leap it would balance classes generaly / if you want movment you take teleports.

I agree if all professions only had leaps and none had ports.

@ TyPin.9860

This build have all that you said with the exception of portal. You can switch Arcane Thievery with portal but you lose the ability to steal boons and i find very rewarding removing to my mesmer the 10+ stacks of might, fury and swiftness from a warrior and give him 6 stacks of bleed, immo and sometimes torment or burning.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJAWRl0npKtFpxNNcrNCrxc6kK6JSOQAl8irB-TJRHwAp3fQwlAAwTA4YZAA

Good damage, regeneration, vigor, good heals, very good condition removal, stun breaks with stability (this one can avoid a hammer combo because it gives stability after the stunbreak), boon steal and boon removal.

The thing is its not a roamer build and people want to roam with mesmer.