Guild Wars 2

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/152754721

The match starts at 03:08:00, See the only warrior in the competition and how OP he is.
Listen to the comments about how the team should not use warrior but other class instead.

After that if you dont understand what people are trying to tell you, maybe its better to ask on the necro fórum.

Have a great game.

Gwaihir.1745:

Defenses. Getting long so ill list them.
DH: 2x f3 limited block (8s block total, can be interrupt and shut down), RF 3s invuln (condis will kill you). Shield 5 destruct, small heal.
Warrior: 2x EP (condis will kill you)(12s total, no interrupt); shield block(3s); mace 2 block. Really I see these are equally matched expect dh loses out in pressured situations due to unblockables, interrupts, and the forward facing only shield.

You forgot to add:

Warrior: shield block(3s); mace 2 block (can be interrupt and shut down )
Once interrupted you dont get those seconds remaining.

BlackBeard.2873:

the range of GS berserk skill (450 range is slightly less than meteor shower) Currently, the only class that really has a strong tell on its skills is ele, whose overloads are 4s cast time

You must be talking about damage area. You can use meteor shower at 1200 range. You cannot do that with Arc Divider (450 range).
Also, freash air Ele has the least tell on their burst and almost all instant.

OP, that should be a bug. In 6 months ANet should fix it.

Aeolus.3615:

Darknicrofia.2604:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Every dh white knight says “5s on 65s cooldown”.
It’s 7s (cause everyone traits it)

no one traits for longer duration over hunter’s determination…

literally no one.

and this is why I take 0 of these whine posts seriously.

the effing loudmouths don’t even know what traits/skills they’re complaining about.

Most players are used to be carried by Anet easy damage and spam skills, most expect to press keys and do alot of damage

This is the true definition of DH. It’s the reason lot of players changed for DH in PvP.

holychampion.7386:

Warrior
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_Stance
25 seconds cooldown
3 seconds block

Let’s analyze it further:
Warrior: In 75 seconds you will have BLOCKED 9 seconds total without the ability to attack

Fixed for you.

It helps a lot to know the classes.

Edit:
Forget to add that can be disrupted right after the use of shield stance.

Shatter power mesmers dont need buffs. Other professions need little nerfs in that role. (shatter power mesmer was not weak and was buffed recently.)

Btw that condition would be OP as hell on mesmers that would negate resistance for conditions and protection for power.

What MOA needs its the hability to be refleted to the sender.
Its not a big deal because all mesmers know that MOA is not OP.

Or they can just give MOA condition cleanse.

Maybe both would fit better that skill.

I tested the build and played some matches with it.
It lacks damage and the boons are almost always stolen / transfered / corrupted.
I tryed other builds with the same amulets but i feel they were all lackluster in damage.

In the games i played those classes were still powerfull.
Eles seem to have very good damage with good surviability. Same with scrapers. Reapers with life force are still a pain to deal in team fights while nuking the points.
Give time to people adapt.

What should be reworked is conditions in GW2 that are too strong in general.
Mace primal burst is fine.

It could use a longer CD but his functionality or efects should remain.

If you want the stun dont enter zerker mode. If you want conditions enter zerker mode.
Its good and gives alternative plays.
I only find it a little too strong when you manage to interrupt someone with it (8 stacks of confusion) but warriors interrupts are not ranged or instacast like other classes so they take more effort to pull out. And if you are against a team with necros you murder your own team…

BrotherBelial.3094:

Funny, I’ve seen at most 3 warriors in a game, that’s 2 on one team and me. Normally there are 1 warrior per team, unless it’s daily. Then you’ll see what ever class is easy to win with the most.

As for warriors heal, yay 800 a second, that would be great if I where not getting smacked by 2-3 people. The only thing that saves warriors from doing down quickly is the heal trait from primal. With out that I’d die alot quicker. Good players know how to handle me, bad players get eaten by me. Warrior is just sorting the people who are good with a class from those who are average.

Some people don’t like finding out they are not as good as they thought they where. So a class must be OP. They could not possibly be a bad player. Time to get a grip people. Time to get better. Or accept that you are not as good as you think you are.

As people like to say “git gud”

I have matches were i´m the only warrior. The most warriors i have finded in matches were 3 (one being me) and thats on warrior day.

To the OP:

You find warriors OP because they are too efective with the lots of mistakes people can make with them. But you have no problems killing warriors.
So they are very efective at getting wrecked?

Also what kind of mistakes they do and still perform well?
Do they activate zerker stance without conditions? (This could be not a mistake against some classes)
Do they activate endure pain without being under high damage bursts? (This could be not a mistake against some classes)
Do they activate stun breakers without being CC?
Do they fail to land burst skills?

All of this mistakes have consequences on warrior side and make them pay against competent players. They are not efective if they do that.

So what kind of mistakes they do that made you opinion in that way?

i just wonder how many changes were made based on this good post?

I played yesterday with defence, discipline and tactics (condition build). Used the buffed longbow and warhorn and adrenalhealth. No shouts because without healing they suck so i went with stances instead.
It worked good and you can survive longer in team fights but its easely countered with the huge cd of berserker stance. The amount of conditions and boon corrupt were so insane that even with healing signet and berserker stance (resistance) the conditions were too much to handle… (i played against many reapers and chronos yesterday)

But we are better than before….

That depends. In 1v1 i can see that hapen if warrior is better player than the mesmer. Other wise mesmer kite the warrior when resistance is up and win easely. In team fights i really doubt that with the boon corrupt / steal.

It would be easier to judge if you post the warrior build that you think can face good chronos.

Moa Form dont need any buffs.

It is such a powerfull form that all mesmers think that when they Moa someone they are buffing that person.
I belive (just a teory) that mesmers Moa someone so other people can fight back, otherwise its too easy for mesmers to kill the other player. They need the chalange of the Moa Form in order to have a good fight.

Some time ago i sugested that Moa could be reflected to the mesmer but the mesmer comunity thought that it was a huge buff to mesmer class and discarded it….

Moa dont need any buffs

darres.8203:

Dream Shake.8741:

Why would it be fair for a high MMR player to be “evened out” with lesser teammates? That was actually the system in season 1 and it was wildly criticized.

so it’s alright to stack all the chips on 1 side?
is that really the better alternative?

Of course it is… ANet needs to take care of their ego… They need to feel they are good players. The others can just leave the game…

Jokes aside, many players were carried by good players in their matches. Sometimes you can get good matches even against all odds because the other side is not that good.

Let me see if i get this right….

Last season, when matchmaking would try to put teams equaly skilled against each other Helseth could not carry.

This season, when matchmaking put goods against bads, Helseth with his high MMR, so he is placed in the good team, he can carry against bads….

Seems legit…

Maybe this build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAR5ejMdQXHWFCmhAnIGICK9Lm+pwCgIYAwT4FWBA-TpBCwAbOIAAOCAOuAAB3fIcZAGPAAA

But this buid wont melt you that quickly.

This one is capable of that but is very squishy:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAR5ejMdQXHWFCmhAnIGICqrMaggW/ipfKsAICGAA-TpBCwAbOIAAOCAOuAAB3fIcZAGPAAA

nicknamenick.2437:

Why cant we enter berserkmode without the need of adrenaline?

It already have a cooldown
Berserker mode have traits that trigger while entering berserkmode.. Those are now pretty bad designed because entering berserkmode is behind the need of 30 adrenaline.
Other classes dont even need to build something to get the elite spec stuff.. Like thief gets a free extra dodge and just maby get the dodgr stuuf for free without the need of a trait.

At the moment i still think it cost a full trailine just to get an f2 that only gives me weaker burst skills on a time gated./ even more adrenaline cost concept compared to the core specs.. Sure it cost less adrenaline while your in berserkmode.. But its for 15 sec.. In all tgat time i can just pull off the same amount of burst skills with core compared to elite.

Just make f2 a no adrenaline cost berserkmode.. (maby remove the adrenaline also while entering ofc). Make it usefull when you NEED it.. Now you always activate it because yeahbyou spend a traitline on it so why not activate it.. It still doesnt feels right.

i’ve been thinking about this too and i totally agree with you. Actually the devs also agree with you because they gave us a elite that refill your adrenaline so you can enter berserker mode right away. The problem is if you dont have 30 adrenaline you cant use many traits that activate when entering berserker mode and that elite does not have a answer to that problem, unless the elite also turns out to be a stunbreaker. Other classes specializations dont require full “something” to activate. You dont need 3 clones to use F5 with mesmer, you dont even need one. You dont need full life force to enter DS on necro and to benefit from the traits.
Also this specialization punnish you from using the class f1. You want berserker mode? dont spent any adrenaline. This adrenaline requirement dont make sence because you have already a cd on berserker mode.

This must be the most facerool play i have ever seen…

Matt Stacey.7415:

No, not “How do I set all my skills to signets and then press 11111111111” I mean, how do so many of you play signet warrior? Warrior is mindless enough, how do you not fall asleep at your keyboard playing something so boring?

You just need to press the signets as you do in every other class with signets. Signets have a active and a passive effect in all classes so you use them wisely.

long time ago i sugested banners to finish downed players in its radius when traited. It could be a counter to stealth ress and it could bring some interesting use of banners in PvP.
Warriors would have a revive banner and a kill banner as a elite. The cooldown in every banner is hugh enough to make it balanced and the trade off is justified (less self sustain).

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Anastasis.7258:

Drennon.7190:

Anastasis.7258:

4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 0 CD.

It’s not listed in the tooltip, but there is a 10 second CD per ally. Ignorance is typically what gets thief nerfed. Funny that you didn’t mention anything about warrior in your post. I feel that rampages damage is still too strong.

Ok roger that, sorry for misunderstand of the trait. And what needs nerf as a warrior? Rampage is already nerfed in its CD and its easily countered by blind/weakness/slow/kiting, you name it. So I don’t think its OP with such long CD but it’s definitely a game changer.

Thanks for the heads up bud!

Warriors have taken to using berserker stance just before activating rampage, making them immune to blindness, weakness and soft cc for the first 8 seconds of it. That, plus their cc and movement skills, makes it impossible to kite during that time.

Stealth, stability, movement skills,positioning, ports, blocks, invulnerabilitys, boon removal for long hard CC or quick chains of hard CC, Death Shroud can help in that time.
After BS is over add blinds, weakness, boon corruption and soft CC to the list.

Some warriors use instead Healing Signet active for the resistance bonus but its not efective because the duration is lower and can be striped / corrupted and they are without heal for 20/16sec.

I agree with all you posted, Anastasis.
Ofc there will be more things to balance if this changes go forward but one thing at a time.

As people already stated in this tread, Rampage now is anoying but not op, so i can see why its not on your list. (I know you are responsible for some warriors nerfs… try to not nerf warrior even more )

4. Shadow Art Thief’s Merciful Ambush, Stealth down Ally with 10 sec CD.

As i said the list is prety much spot on. This one used right can avoid a stomp with the stealth and can ress a player very quickly, it seams that is also bugged and it revives 20% faster when it should be 10% faster. Maybe just the bug fix would be enough.

5. Ranger’s Taunt from pet goes through Block/Dodge.

They really need to change this.

Dodge to enemy (for reckless dodge) – shield bash – skull crack (with +30% stun duration) – switch to GS (hidromancy sigil) – hundred blades – Arcing Slice – wirlwind attack when he gets out of the stun – rush – Bulls charge.

That is usualy my combo.

This is the build i usually play:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNApeRjMdQZH2FCOeApIGICqrMaggW/ipfKsAICGAA-TpBCABA8AAcvMwwHCAMOCAacCAiZ/BA

There is not a single valid point that can contest the fact that warriors need FH baseline.
The rune synergie is already in use because FH is already mandatory for all builds. Nothing would change in that department.

In fact by not going int the last line, warriors would lose adrenaline on weapon swap / clear 1 condition on weapon swap / lose 2might on weapon swap / warrior sprint and quikness against -50% targets. Warriors would loose too much.
Making FH baseline would be completely balanced.

Totaly agree with FH becoming baseline. I dont remember any viable warrior build without it.
It seems that ANet always balanced warriors taking FH in acount.
Make it baseline as Warriors already sugested before specialization changes.

adozu.6398:

just as they finally managed to push longbow out of the meta (by nerfing it’s burn damage immensely)

the elite spec better be awesome or i’m likely going to learn some FOTM build instead personally.

Also this. Longbow is so lacklusting now.

Frenk.5917:

As an elementalist, I just want to point out that as long as elementalists and mesmers will be able to outperform in almost every aspect thief, engi, ranger, necro and (upon a certain degree) warriors, I can totally understand people leaving.

Those classes I listed above (thief, ranger, engi, necro, warrior) are totally viable and can work in a team-oriented pvp. Stealth, AoE Moan, Necro corrupt and Rampage are unique features that only those classes can provide and are insanely amazing when properly used in a well-coordinated environment.

But of course, why should you bother to SOLOqueue with one of the the above when you could do far better with mesmer or elementalist without needing coordination? Why should you train with your friends when you could just go ele or mesmer?

Totally agree ith this.

Rampage is what is keeping warriors in teams. Its sad that warriors must rely on a Elite to be viable as a class.

For roaming i choose Ranger over Warrior. Better ranged damage and longbow invisibilty its really good to land other skills and a really good help to stomp. If you want more in face combat use the ranger trap build with trapper runes in WvWvW. In PvP i´ve seen really good trap rangers, they were not roaming but they were really good defending points.

T raw.4658:

jportell.2197:

T raw.4658:

1. Mesmer loses blind
2. Ele loses blind
3. Mesmer can no longer use mantras while stun/dazed/etc.

Start with that

Than you defeat the purpose of the mantras. Instant cast=used while stunned. If we are going to do that all instant cast skills need to be unable to be used while stunned aside from stun breakers

As it stands right now a mesmer EASILY beats a burst post stun due just insta stunning them before the pain comes.

It needs to be removed.

This is true.

The daze mantra should not be available when CCed. The one that gives you stability should be used for that propose.

jportell.2197:

ronpierce.2760:

Thieves make sense with it (in some areas maybe too much bit overall, it’s in the right place).

Mesmer’s should NOT have blinds, really at all… Their whole game is confusing the enemies and dropping target and making clones, adding blind on top of that is both silly and doesn’t really fit the class.

Guardians deal with flashing lights, makes sense to have a few blinds. Could be toned down since they’re also the blockiest of blockies.

Elementalist really shouldn’t have many blinds. Blinding Ashes should hhave been a 10 sec ICD per target and add a little more offensive flavor to it.

That’s my feels on this whole situation. Thanks for listening friends.

Okay if mesmers shouldn’t have blinds that means that any of our traits dealing with blinds need removed. However I also propose that:

Engis, Warriors, and Thieves should not get confusion in any skill or trait at all.
And warriors and thieves should not have torment, at all. I mean if we are being fair on which classes should and shouldn’t have things.
Thanks for listening.

It makes perfect sense for warrior to have confusion on their traits, expecially on interrupt traits using stuns and dazes.
But anyway those traits are not viable in any warrior build because it require interrupt someone with telegraphed skills, making it harder to stack confusion. Besides the stuns and dazes already take away some damage confusion would make in that time. On top of that CC weapons are weak condition dealers.

If BS is turned into Resistance, all that necros, mesmers and thieves need to is to strip / corrupt / steal / transfer the boon and load the warrior with conditions. Or noobs can put all conditions on warriors, see the mistake and then strip / corrupt / steal / transfer and the warrior dies with conditions or is kited forever (like it was before BS).

Then warrior will need help against these kind of builds.
Then BS will turn again as it is now.
Then people will understand why the skill is as it is now for a while.
Then people forget why and create topics to nerf it.

It will be a loop.

stof.9341:

Well that’s your mistake here. Make a zerk warrior and just press Berserk Stance into Rampage when the thieves attack

And they interrupt your transformation….

Converting BS into a boon will make it useless because the amount of boon strip / steal / transfer / corruption this game have.
I believe BS was made to be able to help warrior to not be a free kill against full / middle conditions specs. With resistance, agaisnt decent players will be useless.

Firebird.8324:

Are people sick of being stunned mercilessly? Being 100-0ed from stealth? Having mesmers teleport, invlun, and stealth away? I found a resolution that won’t take the next six months to somewhat, partially balance!

Put mesmer as a separate queue, similar to how you can queue separately for stronghold

You, sir, are genius.
Good one.

skowcia.8257:

Thick skin was nerfed cause the trait was too op.

This.

No class could bring warrior down from 90% health just because this trait…

ASP.8093:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Shattered Concentration: Have a CD of 15 sec.

You’re mad that someone can interrupt you through Rampage, huh?

No. I barelly use rampage.

My thoughts are more giving ways to other classes deal with Mesmer.

I was talking more about hard to land CC skills like skullcrack. It takes to much efort to land and against Mesmers (its a melee skill, very easy to see with big cast time, count dodges, bait stunbreaks, fill all adrenaline) and when (if) landed the mesmer can avoid the burst even without stunbreaks.

Its to much forgiving.

Shaterred concentration CD is my way to tell ANet that a class with very easy to land / use CC should not remove stability. But Mesmers have it so its better to fix that with CD than to remove.

Diversion: Cannot be activated while dazed, stunned.
Power Lock: Cannot be activated while dazed, stunned.

There are some thoughts in changing these skills. With all the mobility, stealth, surviability and burst Mesmer have right now its too hard to outplay this class, but its possible to outplay it, the problem is here in this department.

When a class is hard CCed their skills are not available to use, so usualy if they do not stun break they will eat the burst.
Mesmer usualy plays with 2 stunbreaks, if the other class can make the mesmer use them, they should not have a get out of jail free card with those 2 skills, because with them, Mesmer can control the other player even when the Mesmer is under CC.

Its like warrior being able to earthshaker / eviscerate / bulls rush the other player when he is CC and with no stunbreaks available.

There should be more risk when playing Mesmer. Right now its too forgiving.

These changes are meant to bring some risk to Mesmer.

With the recent patch, Mesmer became very strong (OP) while using some traits. I do feel that right now they are a low risk/very high reward class. Too much survivability for the damage they can put.
My changes are to bring Mesmer in line without changing his damage output, but instead they give other professions the ability to be rewarded when they hit with key skills.

Traits:
Blinding Dissipation: Have a CD of 15 sec.
Shattered Concentration: Have a CD of 15 sec.

Skills:
Diversion: Cannot be activated while dazed, stunned.
Power Lock: Cannot be activated while dazed, stunned.

I believe those changes alone will make Mesmer more in line with risk vs reward.

This is one of mesmer problems. Instacast dazes/stuns that require no setup to land. This type of skills need have obvious cast time/reaction time. Even that wont help a lot while mesmers can use the mantra while in stealth.
On the top of that mesmers have ways to strip stability.

Ragnarox.9601:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

rampage is well balanced and is in a very good spot at the moment, it is best to leave it alone, for another six months at least, before making any further unnecessary adjustments.

Yea 5k auto #2=5k #3=6k #4=5k #6=6k = 27k dmg
Its ok and well balanced.

/sarcasm

Zerker against zerker.
There are zerker builds that downs people in ~2 sec without notice. Rampage cannot do that. Its even harder against anyone who dodge, evade, port, blind.
At least with rampage you have to land easy to avoid skills. If they are easy to avoid they should be rewarding on hit.

See this tread. It might help a bit.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/12k-confusion-Video-added

Watch this video at 2:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejJjHbjhrGk

Frenk.5917:

silentnight warrior.2714:

• block – yes
• blind – yes
• go out of sight -yes
• reflect – no, its a melee transformation while lich is ranged
• use the terrain properly – yes

Almost the same counters.

• block? No. 1 very quick autoattack and the block vanishes.
• blind? Same as before.
• go out of sight? LOL nope. Rampage warrior con surely outrun a centaur AND you.
• terrain? Not really. As I pointed out before, the gap-closer + the permaswiftness easily help the rampage getting to you.

I find somewhat manageable to cojnter it with mediguard, but even assuming I havent wasted any of my 3 blinds, 4 block and shelter, the transformation lasts enough to let him kill me.

First 2 only hapens if people dont kite/dodge/evade/port. The movements are prety obvious.
The best way to counter is to port to some place were warrior spend the transformation to reach there. If he stays on spot kill him in range.
The other options are valid, but blind i find the most kittene because it must be timed and not spammed.
But again that is my opinion because i dont find hard to deal with rampage. I have more issues with lich because its ranged.
Anyway i dont mind if ANet nerf rampage. I dont like to have to rely on one elite to be viable.

Frenk.5917:

So yeah. The reasons for which Lich-Form is balanced are that you can:

• block
• blind
• go out of sight
• reflect
• use the terrain properly

I agree with all of them. But then, then there’s Rampage. Transform elite skill on 120s CD, which does 20% more damage, has a tremendous amount of CCs and most importantly, it deals TONS of DPS.
By using rampage you gain: access to a lot of powerful control abilities, insane DPS, mobility, immunity to CCs, something very close to immunity to immobilize/chill/cripple, permswiftness and on top of that, tremendous HP pool. So, what are the counters?

Reflects? Nope!
CCs? Nope!
Soft CCs? Nope!
Dps? Nope!
Stab? Nope!
Well then, maybe I guess I can outrun him? You guess, it: nope!

Yes, I am asking for nerfs, in case you didn’t notice. I consider Rampage an “I-win” button. And what’s most irritating is that there are NO counters. Not even run. Just hope to survive thanks to aliens or something.

• block – yes
• blind – yes
• go out of sight -yes
• reflect – no, its a melee transformation while lich is ranged
• use the terrain properly – yes

Almost the same counters, so its balanced…

Some classes can port away to unreachable places for warrior ( before rampage ends.) With lich you can keep the ranged atack.

@Sebrent

Happens to everyone.

While FH doesn’t fill adrenaline by it self, Versatile Rage is a trait that helps warrior build adrenaline by swaping weapons.
FH is essencial to warrior class mechanic and no warrior build till now is/was OP for that reason.

Its been discussed to death and almost everyone, with some exceptions, think that ANet should make FH baseline and balance from there (the same they are doing with mesmers).

So as you say, i dont think that new point as been brought up and thats why OP was asking the Devs why they dont do what they should do.

Best regards