Hi. At least you admit some l2p issues to some topics. When you talk about mist form you should know that mist form grants you invulnerability to all things and endure pain dont do that. A bigger ofender in that case its the mesmer bluried frenzy with much lower cooldown and evades all atacks. You should not compare traits/utilites from diferent classes because each one of them is unique in his gameplay. And we all know that elementalist, unless well played, its a burden to the team.
I’m going to do a litle search on the forum because there was a tread about a tournment and the teams who arrived at the finals only have one warrior on their team, and those teams beat teams with 2 warriors. As soon i find that tread i link that to you.
The winner is who will convence the devs to nerf other classes and buff their.
Putting the warrior in silentnight warrior.
It was already there… lol thanks anyway
found this video randomly, about the preference of war vs mesmer earlier:p if 2 bad players r playing both. warrior wins ye
Why the mesmer is only playing with only one wepon set while the warrior plays with both of them? Even that way those matches mesmer lost
were close. 3-2 to warrior.
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
Like i said, it is your opinion. Best regards
Our first example of power creep is the warrior, unsurprisingly. The build under examination is the longbow/hammer/healing signet/fear me/berserker stance/balanced stance and involves, at least, 20 trait points in defense and 30 trait points in discipline.
Let’s examine the updates:
17 September 2012
Smoldering Arrow: This skill’s casting time has been reduced.
December 14, 2012
Hammer Shock: This skill can now be used while moving.Increased the velocity of arrows fired from Longbow skills by 30%.
February 26, 2013
Smoldering Arrow: This ability is now a full projectile finisher.
Healing Signet: Reduced low-level healing for this signet without changing healing at higher levels. This signet now heals for 12 points at level 2 instead of 25 and then scales up to heal for 200 points at level 80
April 30, 2013
Added new Adept major trait, Defense (II): Dogged March—Incoming immobilize, chill, and cripple conditions are reduced by 33%. Gain 3 seconds of regeneration when you are crippled, chilled, or immobilized. This effect can trigger only once every 10 seconds. This trait replaces Turtle’s Defense.
Added new Grandmaster major trait, Discipline (XII): Destruction of the Empowered—Damage is increased by 3% per unique boon on the warrior’s target.
Quick Bursts and Adrenal Reserves traits: Combined into one trait, Burst Mastery (XI).
June 25th, 2013
Skull Crack: Increased the stun duration from 1, 1.5, 2 to 1, 2, 3. Increased the damage by 50%
Endure Pain: Reduced the recharge from 90 seconds to 60 seconds.
Dolyak Signet: This is now an instant stun breaker.
Berserker’s Stance: Increased the recharge to 60 seconds. Reduced the duration to 4 seconds. This stance now reduces incoming condition duration by 100%, so only modified conditions can get through.
Balanced Stance: This now also applies swiftness.
Hammer Shock: Reduced the aftercast by .4 seconds.
Staggering Blow: Reduced the aftercast by .25 seconds.
Backbreaker: Reduced the aftercast by .25 seconds.
Crushing Blow: Reduced the aftercast by .2 seconds.
“Fear Me!”: Reduced the recharge to 60 seconds.
Adrenal Health: This trait now scales with healing power:
Cleansing Ire: New Master tier trait with the following effects: Gain adrenaline when hit. Remove a condition for every bar of adrenaline spentJuly 9th , 2013
Berserker Stance: The duration of this skill has been increased from 4 to 8 seconds.July 23rd, 2013
Healing Signet (Passive): Reworked the formula that this passive heal uses. At level 80, this skill goes from 392 healing per 3 seconds to 467 healing per 3 seconds with 1500 healing power.October 15, 2013
Staggering Blow: This skill can now be used while moving. Reduced the cast time to 0.5 seconds.
December 10, 2013
Combustive Shot: Increased the pulse duration to 3 seconds. Increased the burn duration per pulse to 3 seconds.I did not have the notation of when Destruction of the Empowered was lowered to master tier, but that was also a relative buff in power. Overall, there is an inherent increase in both relative survivability and damage potential. Additionally, the increases in relative power of the build occurred in several aspects of game mechanics – control effects, conditions, resistance to control effects, resistance to conditions, and mathematical increases measured damage per second potentials.
The ability to measure the progression of each class and each class relative to the notion of power creep is not only incredibly possible, but necessary to track in order to balance the game.
When you map out the progression of other classes with regards to balance, there is a clear track to where we are now in the game, in terms of balance, and where balance potential existed in previous patches – as a whole and with individual classes.
As rough examples of class progression we have the following:
Elementalist – overall net decrease in survivability/highest volume of stealth nerfs
Thief – complete reliance on the critical strikes trait line for tournament-viable builds
Guardian – pigeon-holed role in terms of tournament viability (despite unnecessary buffs to DPS guard structures)
Ranger – complete reliance on the Wilderness Survival trait line for tournament viable builds/survivability
Warrior – overall net increase in both survivability and damage potential
Necromancer – convergence of several different build variations resulting in one true condition build
Mesmer – requires Deceptive Evasion for viability
Engineer – I’m really tired right now.
Warrior – complete dependency on cleansing ire to be viable. And warrior damage has been nerfed in the last patches. You should post that too.
I like your sugestions. Good job. Hope Anet read adapt some of the sugestions.
Totaly agree with OP.
This is “FORUM WARS 2”
The winner is who will convence the devs to nerf other classes and buff their.
I made my own warrior build, now I’m invincible.
No, seriously though. BS’d something, and I can’t tell you how much better I’m doing on a class I’ve played for an hour versus a class that I’ve played for 1000 hours.
This is true. Close to 1600 hours on a Thief, 100 hours on a Mesmer, 2 hours on a Warrior.
Playing with the Warrior gets me the most wins in tPvP and is the most valuable class to most teams.
I agree that the whole CC-spaming is over the top, but the only serious balance-offender is Healing Signet which for some reason avoided a nerf on December 10th, for no good reason.
Most valuable class = Guardian
Nope… people can roll without guardians on their team and still do well. Sadly a bunker warrior an have as much healing power as a bunker guardian and almost 4k armor without taking a shield.
Guardians are better in preventing cap/decap of points, better at team suport and have been mandatory on teams since the beginning.
Its your opinion, and i respect that.
Hapy new year.
I made my own warrior build, now I’m invincible.
No, seriously though. BS’d something, and I can’t tell you how much better I’m doing on a class I’ve played for an hour versus a class that I’ve played for 1000 hours.
This is true. Close to 1600 hours on a Thief, 100 hours on a Mesmer, 2 hours on a Warrior.
Playing with the Warrior gets me the most wins in tPvP and is the most valuable class to most teams.
I agree that the whole CC-spaming is over the top, but the only serious balance-offender is Healing Signet which for some reason avoided a nerf on December 10th, for no good reason.
Most valuable class = Guardian
lol… how long it takes do u think for a cleansing ire/ zerker stance using war to get full adrenalin back?
Cleansing Ire adrenaline = you under heavy pressure. Zerker stance adrenaline – lol, good luck with wasting 1 min defensive CD just for adrenaline. Btw, mesmer in most popular builds can just dodge twice and press one weapon button to get 3 illusions up.
1. first i wasnt saying that zerker was/should only used for adrenalin
2. a mesmer dodging twice + 1 skill for 3 illusions has blown his defense
3. even if he has still endurance, the illusion unless want last that long unless specced for it and in 1vs1 and got ignored or no aoe
4. heavy pressure? i hope u realize the war gets 1 adrenalin for every hit, doesnt matter how much dmg they do.
5. considering how tanky a war is atm several hits per seconds doesnt mean heavy pressure.
6. what does mesmer matter if cleansing ire is op?
7. your compare doesnt fit, cause mesmer has no 90% 3 illusions up. where adrenalin is full really fast
1 – no comments;
2 – Realy? a mesmer after that has no defences? no ports, invul, stealth, nothing?
3 – not understant your point there.
4 – True. It could be heavy damage or not. The other player should have some skill when fighting dont you think? Or the other player is just spaming skills and dont even bother with the warrior mechanics. = Bad player.
5 – That could be a problem with bunker/banner warriors, not all warriors builds so the trait is good overal, but HS needs a slight nerf.
6 – no comments;
7 – Warrior dont have also 90% of the time adrenaline on the 3rd bar. They use burst skills that empty them and after that if they are always getting adrenaline up fast, then the other player is doing something bad = bad player.
And its easy for mesmer to have at least 2 ilusions / phantasm always up.
At Caedmon.6798:
The amount of people who can read but not understand its huge… Give them time.
Hapy new year
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1tr94f/tpvp_build_list_up_to_date_builds_as_of_the/
Here you can see / read the build / strength from some mesmer builds in 1 v 1 and team fights.
“mesmer:
signet of ether: gain health every few seconds based on the number of active illusions you control. passive for 3 illusions is 980 health every 3 seconds which is 337 health a second and active is 5,560. The problem with this is you need 3 illusions up at each interval. The warrior gets better healing without trying. Although the scaling on this skill is better. They might need to consider bumping this down it seems very strong.”
The solution its very simple:
Healing signet: heals based on the adrenaline you have. The same values that signet of mesmer have. (Lower passive and better active plus / recharge some utilities/stances/signets/Banners) and its problem solved.
A warrior use a burst and looses healing. It get adrenaline back it heals better.
Yes, mesmer is a class that need rework in terms of AI and stealth. A class having both of the main problems in the game was never a good sign.
I´m not agreeing with your solutions but i recognize that mesmer is a problem and need rework.
Yes indeed enginner is realy strong/OP in some builds. I think that the only class that its going to be buffed should be elementalist and the others will stay the same way, so i dont believe ANet has plans to nerf enginner. Have fun playing your engie.
That is not what this thread is. Anyone can post suggestions for tpvp, the issue is that the more general solutions are glossed over and the specific ones are picked apart.
Your feedback is noted.
My little feedback should be in the first or second page.
I use quick breathing when i go to WvW. With the amount of mesmer rising in WvW that is going to be a issue.
Maybe if they removed the conditions counting the stacks you have that could be addressed
One sugestion about thief. One thing that could prevent some spam (the way it hapens now) its give them a cooldown like this: You use a skill and for about 5-10 sec (time depending how efective the skill is,) if you use the same skill in that time you will use extra iniciative (+2 for a example). They still could spam skills but not the way it was before.
I´ve got a solution to help balancing high lvl play:
Top 100 players – balance the game for them with their feedback. They can only play against themselfs.
Create a fórum just for them called Elite PvP players feedback.
Seriosly i´ve read on this fórum that Elite players (the choosen ones) already knew that warrior before the buffs was strong and it only needed some adjustments, but until someone used a warrior in a final match they didn´t know that. Only after that, people (the choosen ones) started to use warriors on their teams. But that warrior build was already played at low lvl pvp by a few warriors even before that final match. This means that “low skilled people” already knew warriors could compete with the meta classes at that moment.
Balance its needed at all playing levels and i agree with some balancing posted here in some professions. But to tell that those balances need to happen because “top players” know what its better for the game…
And to tell that the game its the way it is because ANet balanced the game because of casuals…
I still remember the SotG where elite players talked about the game with the devs and their questions, sugestions were based on fórum feedback (All fórum feedback, not only “Top PvP Players”, ofc they were included so some sugestions were also made by them).
And you go watch some tournments and see the petting zoo played at high lvl pvp and other cheese builds, and they think that they are the only ones complaining about those builds and they think that they are the ones that can fix that kind of builds.
This tread now its a “I´m right because i know what i´m talking about and you dont” tread.
Stop with the Elitism.
All classes that rely on AI to do the players job are good for noobs.
My list:
1- mesmer
2- Necro
3- Ranger
4- Warrior
5- thief
…
But a thief can beat a warrior, a warrior can beat a necro… Its all about skill / builds / counters.
Warriors should drop the orb when they activate all their defensive stances at the same time.
This probably its the best post about balance i ever read on this forums. And i´ve read many of them.
Good work.
Just about warrior:
Healing Signet. Stays the same but it scales with adrenaline (the actual amount at lvl 3 of adrenaline). Double the active healing and provide a bónus when activated.
When a warrior uses a burst skill it loses passive healing from 2 sources (HS and the trait in defense).
The other changes can only be adressed when ANet decide to nerf conditions and AoE across classes.
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
The only thing that its exclusive to warriors (mesmer signet its very close) its this sentence:
“Why do people think a passive heal is worse(especially inbetween cc and immunities) vs burst than a active heal that can get interrupted and is also affected by poison?”
1) Because HS its also afected by poison.
2) If you dodge, evade, port, stunbreak that CC you will still be able to damage that warrior. Not talking about blinds here because the warrior can have BS up. But just wait 8 seconds (most of them already passed in that time).
3) If a warrior receive a burst attack activating Healing signet its useless. Low hp gain and no passive healing for 16/20 seconds. Thats the main reason for no one ever uses active HS.
Now go to sleep…
And dont forget that you can still play Hardmode warrior. Go berserker without defensive stances / traits (even with less damage than in the beginning) and enjoy. (or not).
Good sugestion. Post this on the warrior forum too.
Good solution. +1
Some communication from anet wuld hlp , but as usual they “are working on it” .Btw when does the beta of gw2 end?
Anet talked about all classes in the patch notes. You can read them here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-10-2013
Seems like a lot of people are misunderstanding a few things. First of all, it’s not just warriors that should be brought in line.
All AI builds should be removed from PvP. Not rebalanced, removed. No more spirits, spirit weapons, necro minions (flesh golem could stay because it’s ulti), turrets (utility ones, heal and ulti can stay) and phantasms should be reworked in pvp, to only fire off their attacks once (they should be indestructible before that though), but their cooldown (as a weapon skill) should be adjusted accordingly to deal damage on par with other classes (cd to half or similar). EDIT: ok I just realized that halving phantasm cooldowns would completely break shatter builds, so maybe give a phantasm trait that halves the cooldown, but make the trait inaccessible to shatters).
All AoE should be highly telegraphed (meteor storm) or utility only (well of darkness). Necro marks should have a proper animation and “explosion time” like lava font or churning earth, and so should every other damage type AoE.
Yes, dear warriors, we all know these things need to happen to make the game better, however they are not what this topic is meant for. This is a topic about fixing the warrior. I have listed them here, so that all of you warrior players writing here know, that we are aware of the changes that this game needs.
Here is my original suggestion on how to change the warrior: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Let-s-talk-about-Warriors/3389207. If you haven’t read it yet, please do so. It’s high time this topic turned into something productive. In the first place all of you warriors should be happy we are even discussing this in the first place. In this game (if you haven’t noticed) it’s customary for unsatisfied people to go around creating compaint topics until they get whatever class is in question nerfed.
Many people already said the problem is HS. Not stances… Your sugestion about HS seems good to me. The other sugestions are realy bad imo.
edit: Forgot to say why:
Those modifications to stances with your modification to healing signet it will make warrior spend adrenaline on burst / stances and then you are afected by healing with that adrenaline. You will not be able to use all stances at the same time and with that warrior will not have a single second to breathe when focused and you will also still need to take them on your utilities. Warriors wont be able to use their burst skill as they should and that will kill all weapons and builds that use burst skills to deal damage. That moddifications will not just slighty modify warrior but it will turn him very easy to go down as it was in the beginning.
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
Tbh u should not compare anything with s d thief which is one of the issues of this game. I played thief a lot and this weap set /build is just way too permissive.it could be compared to a bunker build for sure. The fact is dp thief can kill hambow warriors , but it doesnt mean that warris are fine. Warris can do so much things at the same time like holding a point , being effective 1n1 ,great for team fights , swiftness that hlp to roam if u have to , and so many other things…. You got low risks for high reward , and thats not like the game shuld be on any class.i assume its not the only issue of this game , but its one of the most important atm
I agree with you. Low risk / high reward should not exist in ANY class. Warriors could use some adjustments in that case as long every other class also have those adjustments. And there are bigger offenders than warriors right now in that department.
@empa
i rly think this has seomthing to do with classes in general are more bunkerish – thats why ele, shatter mesmer and thief have such problems
this startet with necro – everyone stacked vita or condiremove than warrior …. its a powercreep
now everyone goes bunker and warrior is the top – warrior dont even need to go bunker – warrior do big dmg while have high EHP (effective HP) in nearly all builds cause all the traits or utilities are easy to get
warrior builds are always same – healsignet + all the stances and co and THAN they go for what weapon ever they think is cool
they simple have to much OH_Shiet Buttons with no trade offs and all this buttons buff eachother into oblivion
its op when warrior need all this things to survive but there need to be negative effects too like i wrote some sides before
when arenanet not start to care we soon will have same crpa like is in wvw – everything warrior + guardian and the other classes are just buffbots for this
boring
When you talk about warriors builds being all the same and then you go to the forums and see that every profession is asking for more viable builds… And then you read something like, “dont nerf my build because its the only viable at top PvP” posts. Warriors in that department are equal to others. They can choose the coolest weapons they want, but they will loose presence in field if they dont take hammer/longbow. They can take all the stances they want, without those weapons they lose presence in field.
What about you enlight all warriors about those Ho_shiet buttons without trade offs? I want to start use them and everyone would like to try them.
I can post here every stance warrior have and post the negative efect for you. Do you need that?
Too few good answers on the OP.
Too many PvE/WvW and Beginners trashtalking.: Think Mesmer is superior to Warrior in capture points, think mesmer is easy to play, don’t understand how mesmer actually works, but write things like: “The main source of damage in a shatter build are phantasms”.
With feedback like that, Balance will never be achieved, because A-Net is actually listening to trash-talk.Mesmer is easy to play, a good mesmer destroys good warriors.
“With feedback like that, Balance will never be achieved, because A-Net is actually listening to trash-talk”
Agree with this one.
Mesmer is actually the most difficult class to play… at least shatter mesmers. But in hotjoin and soloq you won’t recognize this fact, because everything there is easy to play, because ppl can’t play.
No. Elementalist is the most dificult class to play. You just need to realise something:
OP said that warriors are OP in risk vs reward, when he plays a mesmer, the class that rely on phantasm/ilusions/high damage skills with distorcion to deal damage.
Thats why i said that he needs to clean his house first before coming here talking about risk vs reward on the other classes.
The ele is definitely not the hardest class to play, but people like you think it is, because it is a pretty useless class at the moment and dies in seconds. Last year People like you told us, ele (especially bunker-ele) is the easiest class in the game. In the mean-time all classes got buffed in a riddicolous way, just the ele didn’t get any viable buffs. And oh wonder, nowadays ele is not on par with the other classes and got out of the power-creep-meta we have. This leading People having the thought that ele got harder to play. The class itself didn’t. It’s just harder to have an Impact on the outcome of the match.
So we desagree about the hardest class to play. Who is right?
And what do you mean with "people like you? " and what kind of people you are?
Too few good answers on the OP.
Too many PvE/WvW and Beginners trashtalking.: Think Mesmer is superior to Warrior in capture points, think mesmer is easy to play, don’t understand how mesmer actually works, but write things like: “The main source of damage in a shatter build are phantasms”.
With feedback like that, Balance will never be achieved, because A-Net is actually listening to trash-talk.Mesmer is easy to play, a good mesmer destroys good warriors.
“With feedback like that, Balance will never be achieved, because A-Net is actually listening to trash-talk”
Agree with this one.
Mesmer is actually the most difficult class to play… at least shatter mesmers. But in hotjoin and soloq you won’t recognize this fact, because everything there is easy to play, because ppl can’t play.
No. Elementalist is the most dificult class to play. You just need to realise something:
OP said that warriors are OP in risk vs reward, when he plays a mesmer, the class that rely on phantasm/ilusions/high damage skills with distorcion to deal damage.
Thats why i said that he needs to clean his house first before coming here talking about risk vs reward on the other classes.
Deimos you just need to realise one thing.
They probably have more matches with their main class and when their class was represented in top tier class they never create a topic to nerf their class.
Welcome to GW2 forums.
Nice to read this , because it probably applies to you and most warrioirs posting here.
You dont need to have 10K game as warrior to see the imbalance of this class.Every decent player which have acheived top 100 team Q on europe know this.
I ve been playing at competitive lvl since February/March 2013 , and ppl like Empathetic Fighter are not clueless about game state.They are very experienced players and they play more than 1 class , which gives them a good overview of the current meta imbalances.
It would be really nice if you could answer to Silferas statements by having valid arguments , and not saying every time that we want to see warriors nerfed becuz we are unable to kill them considering how bad players we are.
Should i remind you that every top players @tpvp thinks there is a problem with warrioirs , all comeptitive team left this game.
I know. Its the other players that are clueless.
All competitive team started to left the game a long time ago. Not just now.
And yes you dont need to have 10K games with one class to see the strenghts and weekness of the class. But before fix your own class.
Edit: What valid statment silferas made?
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
Too few good answers on the OP.
Too many PvE/WvW and Beginners trashtalking.: Think Mesmer is superior to Warrior in capture points, think mesmer is easy to play, don’t understand how mesmer actually works, but write things like: “The main source of damage in a shatter build are phantasms”.
With feedback like that, Balance will never be achieved, because A-Net is actually listening to trash-talk.
Mesmer is easy to play, a good mesmer destroys good warriors.
“With feedback like that, Balance will never be achieved, because A-Net is actually listening to trash-talk”
Agree with this one.
I will repeat.
People whine about warriors because it is way to easy to play and way to easy to stomp bad players. And majority(vaste majority) of gw2 spvp playerbase rightnow and past 3 month are bad.
remove kitten lyssa from game and all happy.
but now we have 2 people who played warrior in tournaments, won tournaments, with us, saying warrior is powerful, how? O_O
Deimos you just need to realise one thing.
They probably have more matches with their main class and when their class was represented in top tier class they never create a topic to nerf their class.
Welcome to GW2 forums.
@Trooper: so only warriors can judge warriors? Don’t you think that no warrior would ever want their class nerfed, especially when they are having such an easy time last few months? Leaving class balance to the players of the class alone will result in power creep, as classes who are underperforming will keep asking for buffs, which will in turn bring new passive bullkitten into the game and make it unplayable for everyone.
So how would you like if we changed shatter mesmer, so that it would be immune to conditions, have a long term invulnerability that DOESN’T prevent point capture/loss, give it access to high duration swiftness, stability and turned F1 to also give long duration stun on land with 3 illusions, F2 to make a large confusion field on the node and overall kitten it up?
Because mesmers are the dueling class, I, as a mesmer player, feel it’s uncanny that we might have a hard time dueling anything! Mesmer like that would be balanced! And good for the game!
^ post above is meant to display the current warrior mentality on a different class, it is by no means a serious suggestion
only true invul and stealth prevent capturing points. Warrior dont have any of those. (ok the new healing stance gives you invul)
“So how would you like if we changed shatter mesmer, so that it would be immune to conditions, have a long term invulnerability that DOESN’T prevent point capture/loss, give it access to high duration swiftness, stability and turned F1 to also give long duration stun on land with 3 illusions, F2 to make a large confusion field on the node and overall kitten it up?”
I could live with that but without the stealth, ports, clones and phantasm.
(edited by silentnight warrior.2714)
Everyone can judge warriors. Just when some people talk about risk vs reward they should “clean their own house” (profession) first and then they could try to help to clean the others.
Two of the biggest issues in this game its stealth, the amount of times you can use it in a fight and AI based builds. (both as risk vs reward issues) I dont think we will see some fix to those issues in this game. They are in the game since the beginning and some people enjoy the game that way, others dont like it, but in the end it will be as ANet want this game to be.
Longbow is pretty far from OP, its the same as when warrior was practically unplayable.
What I believe would need a fix and NOT a nerf is the healing signet, they should make this skill smarter, and not an automatic healing.
I jumped from warrior to Elementalist and… lemme tell you that drop was big enough to break legs. But the elementalists can fight warriors rather well if they are not using that signet which is unforgivably tolerant to bad players. Theres not a single noob-friendly ability in this game that is this OP, it allows bad players to shred appart amazing players.
Longbow has always had the potential to be OP, in the past war did not have the sustain to gain the best from it and also combustive shot was on a 20 secs CD ( for a reason).
They already nerfed the adrenaline skill in the longbow in this last patch.
The issue is not simple pure damage.
Radius and duration. 90% uptime of a 1k dps covering MORE than a WHOLE POINT by doing NOTHING aside pressing a button is not balanced.
That skill works when you use it. You can cast other AoE skills and then go to other place and they will only triger when one player gets over them. Those skills also have pulses.
I´m against the kind of AoE that you fire and forget, but there are other AoE in need of more attention than this one. (this one needs atencion also, but dont focuse only on this one just because its a warrior skill.)
Isn’t the actual “burn” portion of the fire field the just very tight epicenter?
ANet dont think so because they nerfed the raw damage of the skill
Longbow is pretty far from OP, its the same as when warrior was practically unplayable.
What I believe would need a fix and NOT a nerf is the healing signet, they should make this skill smarter, and not an automatic healing.
I jumped from warrior to Elementalist and… lemme tell you that drop was big enough to break legs. But the elementalists can fight warriors rather well if they are not using that signet which is unforgivably tolerant to bad players. Theres not a single noob-friendly ability in this game that is this OP, it allows bad players to shred appart amazing players.
Longbow has always had the potential to be OP, in the past war did not have the sustain to gain the best from it and also combustive shot was on a 20 secs CD ( for a reason).
They already nerfed the adrenaline skill in the longbow in this last patch.
The problem is not the radious of the skill. Its the lack of game modes that only alow people to fight on points. I find necros wells way more efective in points.
There’s an obvious reason why warriors are so effective with minimal skill. Because there needs to be builds or classes like this for newbies to PvP.
It’s not worth discussing whether or not warriors are too good for low/mid skill players, because that doesn’t matter for top tier pvp.
The question really worth discussing is are warriors OP compared to the other classes when played at their skill cap?
When played at skill cap other classes are better than warriors. The problem is that good players already left the game, even before the “warrior problem”.
ArenaNet has been completely silent on warriors.
This either means they think warriors are fine, in which case we all need to go find some other game to play, or they simply don’t care, in which case we all need to go find some other game.
They think warriors are in a good spot right now and they wanted to make it harder to deal damage with hammer. You can find that in the patch notes i think.
I really tried to stay as objective as possible but then again this post gets ruined by pve and wvw people.. :/ it’s sad
some actually provided nice feedback and suggestions but they also got destroyed by pve and wvw guysNature of the beast, I’m afraid.
I think most of your points are valid. However, I don’t think defensive mechanisms should be viewed as risk vs reward. They should be viewed as reward vs opportunity lost. If you activate a defensive skill, there should be an opportunity lost, but low risk. Shield blocks are a great example of this: you sacrifice damage output for self-preservation: the opportunity to do damage is lost.
Beserker Stance and Endure Pain are presumably balanced around the opportunity lost from slotting the utility. The long cooldown and loss of utility is the lost opportunity. You are stacking self-preservation utilities at the cost of group buffs (and other things). The problem, however, is this is not a balanced trade-off. Beserker Stance, in particular, with an 8 second duration, is extremely powerful.
Edit: and where’s that video of your new PvP build in action?? :-)
This is true. The problem is to balance that stance you need to tone down conditions spam (There was a reason for ANet give 8 seconds to berserker stance, and that reason still prevails.)
Honestly, i do not see what makes the pro in gw2 so pro. Game is easy enough to play. Perhaps team coordination but individual skill is not that high because the skill ceiling is rather low
Agree. The real skill is when you play in a team, as a team.
If people read all the posts they will notice that it was the OP who wanted to know why i said that in what comes in risk vs reward, mesmers are in need of more balance than warriors. thats when people started talking about mesmers.
This is a topic about warriors. But what you will say about warriors aside of Healing Signet being to strong at the moment?
Op already said that it was not the damage that made warriors the ultimate war machine. So its the stances? Dont think so because only when Healing Signet was buffed people started to fear warriors. So i dont agree when he says things like:
“Bersercer’s Stance – immunity to conditions for quite a long time (no risk for pressing one skill – surviving 100% reward)” – With this one you can still take damage. you have to use endure pain at the same time to get some sort of invul, but you will get CC so you need to user all defensive stances you have to be safe for 4-5 seconds only (because EP dont last 8-10 seconds).
This is one statement that made me think about the risk in other classes and mesmer (one more time) has advantage against warrior in that department. “But this post is only about warriors….”
“Cleansing ire (cleansing with a chance of 100% on longbow, not even having to hit the condi cleanse 0% risk – 100% reward)” – There are other classes that dont need to hit to get rid of conditions too. “But this post is only about warriors….”
“Lets take a burst setup – you spike the warriors from stealth
Warrior: if he reacts fast enough he can basically survive with around 60% health using Endure pain (making it possible for him to disengage) (no risk for pressing one skill – surviving – 100% reward)” – That is how all the get of jail free cards works on every profession, you should know that better than anyone because you play the classes you said you play, by the way (i know this post is about warriors only, but just let me say this one) how the blurred frenzy is worst than this skill?And then after OP said this:
“so you basically take a lot of damage from retal when using blurred frenzy and then you take even more damage while being very squishy? i see your point but i think we would have to modify that for each class”So in this case Blurred frenzy its OK? Because i only have immunity as warrior if i use all my stances and i have a 60 sec CD for have the same effect after. You can do this every 10-12 seconds without using a single utility slot (but this is about warriors i know.)
So if ANet nerfed the wrong things about warrior, lets start a discussion here about warriors:
Question: Should ANet reverse the nerfs they made and nerf the real problem (Healing Signet)?
If so, what are your sugestions to do that?change the game to where it was 9 months ago nerf mesmer and ele and everybody is happy
Maybe that is the best solution i ever heard in this forums.
Nice one
If people read all the posts they will notice that it was the OP who wanted to know why i said that in what comes in risk vs reward, mesmers are in need of more balance than warriors. thats when people started talking about mesmers.
This is a topic about warriors. But what you will say about warriors aside of Healing Signet being to strong at the moment?
Op already said that it was not the damage that made warriors the ultimate war machine. So its the stances? Dont think so because only when Healing Signet was buffed people started to fear warriors. So i dont agree when he says things like:
“Bersercer’s Stance – immunity to conditions for quite a long time (no risk for pressing one skill – surviving 100% reward)” – With this one you can still take damage. you have to use endure pain at the same time to get some sort of invul, but you will get CC so you need to user all defensive stances you have to be safe for 4-5 seconds only (because EP dont last 8-10 seconds).
This is one statement that made me think about the risk in other classes and mesmer (one more time) has advantage against warrior in that department. “But this post is only about warriors….”
“Cleansing ire (cleansing with a chance of 100% on longbow, not even having to hit the condi cleanse 0% risk – 100% reward)” – There are other classes that dont need to hit to get rid of conditions too. “But this post is only about warriors….”
“Lets take a burst setup – you spike the warriors from stealth
Warrior: if he reacts fast enough he can basically survive with around 60% health using Endure pain (making it possible for him to disengage) (no risk for pressing one skill – surviving – 100% reward)” – That is how all the get of jail free cards works on every profession, you should know that better than anyone because you play the classes you said you play, by the way (i know this post is about warriors only, but just let me say this one) how the blurred frenzy is worst than this skill?
And then after OP said this:
“so you basically take a lot of damage from retal when using blurred frenzy and then you take even more damage while being very squishy? i see your point but i think we would have to modify that for each class”
So in this case Blurred frenzy its OK? Because i only have immunity as warrior if i use all my stances and i have a 60 sec CD for have the same effect after. You can do this every 10-12 seconds without using a single utility slot (but this is about warriors i know.)
So if ANet nerfed the wrong things about warrior, lets start a discussion here about warriors:
Question: Should ANet reverse the nerfs they made and nerf the real problem (Healing Signet)?
If so, what are your sugestions to do that?