I cant say anything conclusive yet because im not 100% on after casts. And i dont really trust the random different aftercasts and values people have been throwing out.
My general impressions are that RS auto with reapers onslaught should do slightly more than dagger (but havent confirmed). Gravedigger spam will probably be best dps below 50% even if the aftercast makes it 2 second repeatable cast. Lich is still really good so it might be worth using to fill in the gap before reaching 50%. No idea where a GS + dagger rotation sits when above 50% though.
The things i am certain on though. Spite is mandatory for power along with Reaper. And it will be your standard dps traits. The 3rd line could honestly be anything. Soul reaping would be the best dps. But death magic has potential for shroud dps increase and anchor utility along with minions. And blood obviously has vampiric aura.
For a group condi build im really keen to try a curses, death magic, reaper build. Basically death nova spam with whirls to stack poison out the kitten. Only problem is death nova spam might not be as good as i hoped with minions becoming 95% immune to aoe damage. If this build does work and provide a decent amount of condi dps then it could also anchor in raids. due to toughness from death magic.
Well, there could be, for example, class specific runes/sigils that deal with the drawbacks (additional condition conversion or transfers) that allow it to combo better, or changes to reaper or other classes that allow it to be more usable. IDK, I think it’s fine as is. I used it before condi block with good success in PvE anyway. ~25% aoe damage reduction not too shabby.
Using runes/sigils is still a build sacrifice that no other class has to go through to counter their own utility skills.
Its not poweful though. And if it was then coupled with transfers it would be overpowered. But its not. Which is exactly why you cant buff the positives. Because then it definitely shifts into that direction. Its broken because you cant fix it with number tweaks. Something has to change.
Bhawbs not the only one who has seen the problem with balancing it. I literally just pointed it out in one of my prev posts in this thread as well as repeating it here. And ive mentioned it in various corruption threads multiple times before.
And the core concept is cool yeah. But thats no reason to keep it on such a poorly implemented platform. Save it for an elite spec and do it right. Would be much better that way.
The 20 sec cooldown is really nice tho (when traited). Most dont stand inside the thing so i always found it useful that i can still make the target weak by transferring the self weakness instead of hoping they stay inside the cloud.
Is this a bad thing? Really odd people have a problem with this skill when there are transfers all over the place. Definitely would take those self conditions i can transfer for the projectile block and so short a cooldown.
Thats exactly the problem. Ive lost count at the amount of times ive pointed this out.
Its bad design to force the use of other utilities/weapons just to use a utility skill without negatively affecting you. If we had a free transfer on shroud (regardless of build) then it would be a different story. But we dont. We have to actually take a tranfer or cleanse to be able to use corruption skills. Its restrictive and unfair. Very poorly designed. And quite simply corruptions simply arent anywhere near good enough to justify this concept.
So you want a stand alone skill, well dont be surprised if the cooldown is increased and possibly the duration reduced which would be a crying shame. To expect otherwise would be expecting to eat your cake and have it too.
Way i see it you are already going to carry condition conversions/transfers in the build (would be surprising if you arent) at any given moment in a fight you will be hit by conditions so you will be forced to transfer or convert condis regardless. Its not like you actually carry condi counters at the expense of your build. Therefore If there is anything forcing taking transfers its the existence of conditions itself not corruptions yes?
Erm maybe in PvP transfers are pretty much always going to be taken. But in PvE you take what is required. You wouldnt waste portions of your build just counteract a self harm mechanic. But you might want corruptions skills for their utility. So then you are stuck with the problem ive been pointing out…. Its broken design that no other class has to deal with.
The 20 sec cooldown is really nice tho (when traited). Most dont stand inside the thing so i always found it useful that i can still make the target weak by transferring the self weakness instead of hoping they stay inside the cloud.
Is this a bad thing? Really odd people have a problem with this skill when there are transfers all over the place. Definitely would take those self conditions i can transfer for the projectile block and so short a cooldown.
Thats exactly the problem. Ive lost count at the amount of times ive pointed this out.
Its bad design to force the use of other utilities/weapons just to use a utility skill without negatively affecting you. If we had a free transfer on shroud (regardless of build) then it would be a different story. But we dont (unless we are underwater). We have to actually take a transfer or cleanse to be able to use corruption skills. Its almost as if a single corruption skill requires two utility slots. Do you not see the problem with that?
Its restrictive, unfair and very poorly designed. And quite simply, corruptions simply arent anywhere near good enough to justify this concept. Im honestly surprised the idea is even up for debate. It seems so obvious to me that this is poorly realised concept. It doesnt even feel like an opinion to me. Its just logical.
You cant even buff the corruption skills to justify the negatives. Because it creates a super buff in certain situations. So its impossible to balance fairly without a complete revamp. My best solution would be to scrap the self condis and properly realise the concept of self harm in a future elite spec.
However I’d argue that the power of Corrosive poison cloud is absolutely there for a corruption skill and its worth the weakness 10 fold. Other corruptions such as Corrupt boon, Consume condition and blood is power are not quite at that power level to justify the extra condition.
On any other profession CPC would exist without weakness. It is balanced without the weakness, which means the entire setup is badly designed.
Eeeh that’s exaggerating. The other reflects/projectile blocks are often a lower uptime, and ONLY a block/reflect. The 2 closest comparable by being nature of utilities are Feedback and Shield of Reflection. We can throw Rev Hammer 4 into the mix too, but it should be balanced differently as a wep skill, not a utility.
The only thing that you could argue (very weak arguement) justifies the self condi on CPC currently is that it works on unblockable projectiles. But i have no doubt that they will fix that soon. Because they did it for phantasmal wardens before. So theres no reason they would overlook it for necro.
Its highly likely that its the hood. Which is pretty disappointing to me. Was hoping for some decent shoulders. Im not a fan of covering my necros face/head with hoods. Makes my perma hair kit pointless. :P
i’am very curious if some of the haters here will have the balls to do that. After reading the posts regarding your videos i doubt it.
It’s like being issued a debate challenge by a climate change denier or Creationist, why even waste your time by taking them up on it.
Well while I like the comparison, I don’t think it’s quite the same thing. A climate change denier or Creationist just says utterly stupid things. Nemesis often (not always) says true things but he unfortunately dilutes them in a flow of insults, inaccuracies and excessive generalizations.
I think we must be referring to two different nemesis’s. Theres an occasional truth hidden among a sea of bull.
@Ithir Darkleaf @spoj
Why. Why bother posting here at all. Are you guys that bored?
Yes i was bored. And confused at why he got so offended at people for simply suggesting his channel would be the better place to ask. Felt an overwhelming urge to point out the logic of asking on the channel instead of here. Just because this is the official gw2 forum doesnt mean its the best place to ask for all things gw2 related. But apparently it makes me a bad person for pointing that out.
So for PvE perspectives… Hydro and Force on GS seems the way to go?
Hydro and Fire would probably be better for power dps, if you want to maintain your chill.
Force > Fire. Always.
Only when you can guarantee hitting your attacks, which basically only means for PvE. It doesn’t take a whole lot of downtime for Fire to overtake Force for damage.
He did specifically ask about PvE. So yes it would be Hydro and force.
20k-30k hits but no 30k dps because it needs 2 sec to perform 1 gravedigger.
1.5s, not 2 Btw. On raids we don’t have to support others. Necro can just focus on dps there. Support stuff leave for eles, guardiands, druids and heralds though
Theres aftercast to factor in. So its closer to 2 seconds apparently.
Anyway with wells and nightfall + gravediggers, 20k dps below 50% could be pretty plausible to maintain. 40k gravediggers are pretty standard in proper groups.
The 5% modifier is comparable to vampiric aura. So most of the time soul reaping is slightly better for damage than blood magic. But blood magic gives group sustain and lifesteal is armour ignoring. So the damage balance shifts on high toughness mobs.
Try asking this on his channel instead of the forum? Believe it or not, not everyone here like him so me, for example, consider this spam and free promotion.
Why should I try his channel? This is about GW2. This is the official GW2 forum. Just because you disagree with him doesn’t mean his content isn’t about GW2. Part 2 is about Necromancer and last time I checked this was the necromancer forum.
Why do people that dislike him bother to write? Just go away and write in topics you enjoy. Don’t need to take a dump on everyone else’s parade.
Maybe because you are asking about a specific content creators videos. This is the official forums so its not the best place to ask about unofficial gw2 stuff. So it would make more sense to ask him directly. As far as im aware he doesnt even read these forums that much anymore.
Also just because he makes gw2 stuff. Doesnt mean everyone knows about his stuff on here. Its likely something only he himself can answer. So its pointless asking here. The people that would know are him and his loyal fans. Which you can find on his channel, not here.
Just to go on record. I personally dont give a kitten about world firsts. But i was under the impression DnT did and they were planning to go for it. So its kind of odd that they would accept to test raids. I know i probably wouldnt if i wanted my achievement to actually mean something.
We aren’t going to release any videos, guides, etc for raids until multiple guilds have cleared the wing. Our goal is to preserve competition for all the guilds interested in progression and not spoil the fun of learning the fights by doing anything to taint that. We will do our best to ensure that everyone has the best experience possible in the raid, which is the whole point of having guilds invited to test these things.
I thought you guys wanted to go for world first though? Any claim to that will be tarnished by this.
in other MMOs, even if you got wf kills, what you did was post a screenshot and not upload any videos until multiple guilds killed the boss.
Thats not my point. My point was noone will take you seriously if you do get it and try to claim it. Since you get to test and prepare before everyone else.
if you or anyone else takes it serious or not is entirely up to you.
Right so just ignore my point again.
I assumed you guys actually wanted to claim world first. But fair enough.
We aren’t going to release any videos, guides, etc for raids until multiple guilds have cleared the wing. Our goal is to preserve competition for all the guilds interested in progression and not spoil the fun of learning the fights by doing anything to taint that. We will do our best to ensure that everyone has the best experience possible in the raid, which is the whole point of having guilds invited to test these things.
I thought you guys wanted to go for world first though? Any claim to that will be tarnished by this.
in other MMOs, even if you got wf kills, what you did was post a screenshot and not upload any videos until multiple guilds killed the boss.
Thats not my point. My point was noone will take you seriously if you do get it and try to claim it. Since you get to test and prepare before everyone else.
We aren’t going to release any videos, guides, etc for raids until multiple guilds have cleared the wing. Our goal is to preserve competition for all the guilds interested in progression and not spoil the fun of learning the fights by doing anything to taint that. We will do our best to ensure that everyone has the best experience possible in the raid, which is the whole point of having guilds invited to test these things.
I thought you guys wanted to go for world first though? Any claim to that will be tarnished by this.
Precision would be wasted. So i would swap it for power. Also random proc sigils are so annoying. This is what i would suggest for reaper runes:
SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE REAPER
(1) +25 power
(2) +10% chill duration
(3) +50 power
(4) +15% chill duration
(5) +100 power
(6) +20% chill duration, +10% damage against chilled foes
Not as good as scholar for pure damage. But more suitable for the class in general. Reapers main themes are hit like a truck and chill your foes. So this runeset makes the most sense to me.
The main concern with rewards shifting to raids and fractals is the reward lock outs. With fractals its down from 5 tiers to 3 each day after HoT releases. And raids is once a week. So it would have to be pretty substantial rewards to make it fair. And then we are stuck with nothing to do unless we feel like doing content that doesnt reward us for the rest of the day/week.
I have no idea why offhands have weird weapon strengths because they dont seem to be used in any calculation unless you have no mainhand equipped (no reason you would ever be in this situation unless you got stuck incombat while changing weapons). Think of offhands as a slot to make sure you have equal stats to two hander sets.
You are wrong. Skill #4 and 5 in DS use off hand weapon damage when you have main-hand/offhand. Check the tooltip between #4 and #5 when using a exotic dagger and exotic focus. The states are equal only the weapon damage is different. Main-Hand ( axe, dagger, sceptar, mace, pistol and sword )have about 11% more average weapon damage that Off-Hand weapons (focus, torch, shield, warhorn). I literally just did this test so its not wrong. Got 1899/1710 on lifetransfer dagger/focus in pvp with ammy and power rune which is ~11% which is the difference in strength between Main-Hand weapons and Off-Hand weapons. No i didnt have might or any other modifier to disrupt it.
I couldnt understand what you meant for a minute. So i tested it myself. Quickest way was to just check the life transfer tooltip between staff and d/f (was exactly 20% difference which is the difference between offhand and twohander weapon strength). This is some odd interaction that i was not aware of. Its been pretty common practice to just always assume weapon strength is the mainhand value for all skills.
I suppose it doesnt really matter too much in theorycrafting calculations because the coef is calculated from the tooltip and weapon power. So if you use the wrong value you just get an appropriately wrong coeff. But the multiplication of the two is the same. But it is relevant in picking an appropriate weapon for shroud builds. So thanks for bringing it up. :P
I think its a rather split opinion. I was always against shroud procing swaps. Then when i tried it i actually liked it. But i know subli from my guild still doesnt like it. I can live with either way. But i do think DS and RS need to work consistently.
so the weapon you have equipped before you enter shroud affects your damage? between staff and dagger which would be better?
It takes the stats from the weapon you have equipped but it doesn’t add the offhand (I’m not sure if it use the dmg). And because a 2handed weapon has more stats than a 1handed you will be a bit more effective going into DS with a 2handed.
This is incorrect. The the only difference is the mainhand average weapon strength. The full stats are equal as it uses the stats you have equipped. But depending which weapon you have out changes your weapon strength range. Two handers have an average weapon strength 10% higher than one handers. So theres a 10% difference.
I have no idea why offhands have weird weapon strengths because they dont seem to be used in any calculation unless you have no mainhand equipped (no reason you would ever be in this situation unless you got stuck incombat while changing weapons). Think of offhands as a slot to make sure you have equal stats to two hander sets.
They could solve the complaints and continue with the gold nerf simply by buffing the dropped loot and giving a couple guaranteed rares on dungeon completion. So basically swap the gold for rares. Becomes material rewards instead of liquid.
DPS meters are for the unskilled who need to have there hands held. DPS meters will not make you a better player. Skill and knowing what you are doing will.
But hay what do I know right? The “elite” use it to make them selfs better right?
Sorry, but every thread I see like this makes me laugh.
I love it when people try to compare classes. We already know necromancer is the lowest dps in the game but the most survivable class. I really can’t believe people are still playing the “Oh this does better than this class” or “The numbers are higher on this class” game.
Isnt that a vitaly important aspect of cross profession balance?
It will get fixed. We argued that mesmer should keep warden as the only true projectile block for a unique thing only mesmers could provide. They nerfed it anyway.
Deathshroud is a profession mechanic. Life force is a profession mechanic. Self condis on corruption skills are not. Also condition transfers are not a profession mechanic
“Replace this person” should not be coming up because these are raids designed for organised teams. Which means there should be mutual trust and so on going on. If not then the team is doomed to have a hard time anyway. And may as well be considered a glorified pug in disguise. Which means they are not suited for the content.
I’m a big fan of Reaper, I think it’ll turn out to be quite decent damage, not the best as in it surely won’t match Engi capabilities and probably not Ele, but it’ll be up there I’m quite sure (people reporting 42k gravediggers I see 25-30k in more optimal group conditions just playing through some fractals/arah but 20k+ almost for sure).
It stands to reason that we’ll eventually get an elite well skill now that they’ve changed categorizations of the elite and healing skills to match the utilities. With that in mind, what would you guys like to see in an elite well skill? I myself would like damage to enemies + invulnerability to allies inside the well.
Your entire premise is off though. We didn’t get new skills to fit every utility type, we got changes to old skills so that (almost) every skill has a utility type. There is nothing to suggest we’ll ever get new elites outside elite specs, which would have their own utility type.
They could eventually add skills to give every skill type from the core professions an equal number of skills. So every type has a heal , an elite and 4 utilities. And to be honest they probably should eventually do this. Which means they need to actually categorise Shelter on guard. Or give every class at least 1 non categorised heal skill.
If you accommodate for those compositions you will run into serious lack of difficulty problems. Thats a problem caused by poor class balance more than anything. And so it should be addressed with class balance.
Enrage timers in their current state are nothing but a DPS test. Players can have the mechanics down, but if their damage isn’t high enough, the timer kicks in and wipes them all.
This argument is just not true. If you’re getting downed constantly, get constantly teleported away from the Unstable Energy Spikes, or send more people than is necessary to soak the Distributed Magic, all of these are poor play and bad strategy which the enrage will punish you for.
This might come as a surprise to everybody, but damage matters. Damage is actually one of the three pillars of the soft Trinity: damage, support, control. For some reason people think damage does not matter. It does.
If the group is having that much trouble already they won’t stand a chance once enrage starts building up.
My problem is with skilled groups who are surviving well and managing the mechanics, but lack the highly optimized team required to meet the DPS requirement. If they play well enough to survive the ramped up mechanics, they should be able to continue fighting, letting their skill make up for their lack of optimization.
If they are truly skilled then they should have no problem sacrificing some of their defence for more damage to actually beat the timer. That is the entire point of it. Without it its not actually difficult. Because surviving on its own is easy. And dps on its own is also easy. Difficulty comes from trying to do good damage under constant pressure. The timer forces players to require that damage. Without it there is no true difficulty.
Btw. On raids we don’t have to support others. Necro can just focus on dps there. Support stuff leave for eles, guardiands, druids and heralds though
I see 25-30k in more optimal group conditions just playing through some fractals/arah but 20k+ almost for sure).