Because its wasted resources and doesnt really do anything a guild bank and name change scroll cant do? I dont see them ever allowing shared account bound items.
Not against it. It just seems completely pointless.
Read every post so far guys! My report is basically done, but I’m going to hold on to it for now until when I go to bed tonight (So like 10-12 hours from now). If you have any last thoughts that should make it into the report, now’s the time!
I just want to say in light of all the work you did, and Robert Gee even mentioning the community’s feedback on stream, you deserve a round of applaus and a cookie.
/hands-over-special-necro-cookie
This. But i think its important to mention Rising Dusk also did a huge report on the necro more focused on PvE. So huge props to him aswell. And really glad the balance team is making good use of our feedback. So props to them as well.
Yeah exactly. The only trait that really suffers from the current setup is spiteful talisman. Because you cant get it to synergise with bitter chill. If we dont get it moved id atleast like to see it buffed to 10% damage. I kind of hope for that regardless though.
The thing is you can reshuffle quite a few traits in spite. Because the only trait that absolutely should stay in grandmaster is close to death. Signet mastery, spiteful spirit and axe training definitely arent strong enough to be forced into certain tiers currently. And the others can quite easily be shuffled a bit. Most of the traits in the spite line are pretty equal and they have a lot of synergy so it kind of makes it difficult to choose the perfect place for them to rest.
It was merely a suggestion based on a personal wish for one variation i would like to see possible. I dont really expect them to change it. As people have pointed out they quite like the current setup. Its only one minor issue which i can live with so im not too fussed either way. But it would be cool if they could come up with a solution which allows all synergistic variations. Which is why i thought it was worth bringing up and discussing.
Except i dont think its fair that someone is able to work on unlocking their elite specs if they havent done enough hero challenges to completely unlock the core specs. Thus a debt is needed. Its essentially saying they never have to complete those extra skill challenges (they arent complete on the map but they may aswell be because you got free hero points).
And you are completely misunderstanding me on my other points. Dont really know how to explain it any other way. I know exactly how they want things to work. You repeating those to me has no relevance.
I admit my main purpose for the reshuffle was to allow the damage mod traits + bitter chill. But another reason is because bitter chill actually synergises with spiteful talisman and in turn chill of death. Spiteful talisman reduces the cooldown of spinal shivers. And that synergises nicely with both bitter chill and chill of death. Which is kind of why i suggested having them in 3 seperate tiers.
Also i dont think its a bad idea to have two different vuln traits in the same tier. Having both in seperate tiers is probably over kill on the vuln if you were to take both (they can be kept strong if they cannot be combined). And having them in the same tier means you make a choice of which is more suitable for your build. For example. If you are spending a lot of time in DS then you will take death shiver. However if you plan to apply a lot of chill or want to get that vuln whenever you burst with chill of death then you obviously want bitter chill instead.
Can confirm, walled lupi before “bug”, walled lupi after “bug”. When my group changed lupi strat and decided to do lupi legitly with a new guardian in group, I don’t really find the fight anymore challenging in a 5man setting. In fact if you do it right with guardian and nuking lupi at phase 2 to the point where he is almost dead in phase 3 nothing changes. So this “bug” is really only hurting the pugs and not organized groups.
And i have said i completely understand your point of view. Im not a WvW player. But im not an open world PvE player either. I spend my time in dungeons and fractals. So 8 of my alts have literally only the routes to each dungeon entrance and no other map comp done. It effects me pretty much just the same as you except i only have 11 characters total.
But funnily enough i can accept it. Because i know the system will be better in the longterm. Yes im going to be bored out of my mind getting some of my alts the hero points they need. But im not going to throw a tantrum over it because i know there isnt a clear cut solution.
Why you need to do this on every alt i dont know. Ill only be doing it on 1 of each class. Because doubles of classes only serves the purpose of cosmetic variation.
That tooltip shows they all inherit it. Either way i was only speculating. We dont know for sure how they will change. Id like them to be on all hits of the chain. But i kind of expect them not to do that for some of the traits.
Then you lose chill of death + bitter chill synergy.
And death shiver is good as it is. I dont think its a good idea to give passive chills.
Thats the point, as for passive chills, they are better than passive vuln, also more interesting for gameplay AND at odds with a 20% under 50% hp bonus damage.
Passive chill is too strong and difficult to balance. Theres no counter play to a passive aoe pulsing chill. Also Death Shiver is a good PvE trait which doesnt require the reaper spec to be useful. So no i do not think its a good idea to change that trait to chill. It should remain as pulsing vuln.
Thats fair enough. Thats the whole point of these discussions. To give suggestions and gather feedback.
I can certainly live without having both bitter chill and spiteful talisman on the same build. But i think its a real shame. Especially as it will help PvE necros a bit more aswell.
I think its really going to be difficult for anet to sort out all core specs in a way which retains synergy and meaningful choice like the elite specs have. They certainly wont be able to please everyone
On the topic of siphons, adding an ICD is a terrible idea. There is this concept called “return on investment” that people advocating an ICD like to ignore.
Using faster-hitting skills and weapons to proc siphoning traits more often is an investment in doing so. If you’re dedicating your build to do something, you had better be able to do it much, much better than someone who just happens to pick up a certain ability.
Yep and this is also true with chilling force and blighters boon. Its an important part of the intended design.
Its also balanced in that we mostly have slow hits on the new spec. All the fast hit stuff is on relatively high cooldowns with close range.
Tiers only matter as far as alternative choices. So thats irrelevant. People will still take it over SS and close to death in some situations. Which means it can fit in that tier fine.
Yeah thats why i reshuffled. I was simply trying to maintain as many synergies as possible.
They could always buff chill of death base damage slightly to compensate not being able to take close to death. Spinal shivers on focus is not worth the cast time. So it wouldnt hurt to buff its damage slightly.
@Muchacho
I can sort of understand the complaint about chill of death and spiteful spirit. They are both boon removals. However signet mastery and chill of death have absolutely no synergy. So wouldnt swapping signet mastery and spiteful spirit be satisfactory? And spiteful spirit with its current no blast and 15 second cooldown isnt really justified as a grandmaster (even though tiers dont really matter so much).
My overall point is that its impossible to maintain every combo. But shouldnt we try to get all the really strong synergistic possibilities at the very least? I feel like spiteful talisman, bitter chill and chill of death is a really nice 3 trait synergy. Its a synergy I really think we should have the option to trait for.
Also with Bitter Chill and Death Shiver competing. I think thats fine. They are different ways to get vuln. So you take which ever one is more suitable for you.
So after a bit of discussion on the dungeon forums thread. I had a look at the spite traits. Basically the issue is in PvE we have a lack of damage mods and we cant take Spiteful Talisman + Bitter Chill. Which also has PvP synergy because of focus 5. Its a really nice option which i think is a shame we cant get at the moment. So i proposed a trait shuffle to fix this and maintain most of the other synergies.
So heres the reshuffled spite traits i propose:
Adept
- Spiteful Talisman
- Reaper’s Might
- Axe Training
Master
- Bitter Chill
- Death Shiver
- Signet Mastery
Grandmaster
- Chill of Death
- Close to Death
- Spiteful Spirit
This maintains most of the important synergies. And orders them in rows. Top row is your chill and boon strip row. Middle is your pure damage. Bottom is your axe and signet stuff.
Only problem with this is PvP players are going to complain about losing Chill of Death + Close to Death. Then again Chill of Death has always been very strong in PvP. This might be a good way to keep it in check slightly.
Adept
- Spiteful Talisman
- Reaper’s Might
- Axe Training
Master
- Bitter Chill
- Death Shiver
- Signet Mastery
Grandmaster
- Chill of Death
- Close to Death
- Spiteful Spirit
This maintains all synergies. And orders them in rows. Top row is your chill and boon strip row. Middle is your pure damage. Bottom is your axe and signet stuff.
Only problem with this is PvP players are going to complain about losing Chill of Death + Close to Death. Then again Chill of Death has always been very strong in PvP. This might be a good way to keep it in check slightly.
They do yeah. Although necro has never really been a problem in groups for defence. Its easy for other classes to make up for their shortcomings. Its just annoying to have to rely on that.
And yeah Bitter Chill versus Spiteful Talisman is kind of annoying. But we still have Death Shiver in spite master slot. So vuln isnt completely gone. If you swapped them then you take away chill of death + bitter chill synergy.
I suppose you could swap Death Shiver with Spiteful talisman. But then you lose Reaper’s Might + Death Shiver synergy and Spiteful Talisman + Chill of Death synergy. Its not really an option to keep all combos when theres so many good traits in that line now.
I think Bitter Chill and Spiteful Talisman both need to be in a different tier to Chill of Death. Because they are direct synergies. So the only option to get spiteful talisman and bitter chill at the same time is if you move one of the three traits to grandmaster and the other to master. And if that was going to happen it would have to be chill of death that moves to grandmaster. Which isnt actually too bad of an idea.
I dont see why you need a system for ingame weddings. You can share a guildbank and change your character names. What a wonderful wedding gift. A name change scroll. :>
Yeah i havent seen any working solutions in this thread either. Grandfathering wont work because people will have different maximum possible hero points.
No, the maximum possible hero points are the same for everyone – it’s the 400 points from level + all available skill challenges.
They could make 400 hero points be the requirement for all core stuff. Or they could unlock everything for you and give you a 65 hero point debt. But this would mean you still have to earn those extra points before you can even attempt to unlock the elite spec. Or they could auto complete 65 hero challenge but that would likely upset people who like doing map comp but havent gotten round to it on all their alts. Only other solution is to have WvW have everything auto unlock like in PvP.
Or they could give you points depending on your level, refund skillpoints for unlocked traits and skills, then convert posessed skillpoints into hero points up to a cap, which would be maximum possible amount you could get at your level. This would have the side issue that doing hero challenges while at the cap would not give you any more hero points, but that’s the least negative option out of all considered. Besides, they’d still count for map completion, so it would be still worth doing them.
Thats the same as making a hero point debt. But i can see why anet would rather avoid that method. I said grandfathering wont work because it would cause people to have different potential maximums. I know that it is intended for everyone to have the same maximum. Which is why i proposed all those other solutions.
Personally i feel its better to just take a small amount of flak when the patch goes alive. For the better of the system in the future. Controversial and unpopular amongst WvW exclusive players i know. But i would rather that than introduce the problems of all the other solutions.
Ranger weapons effect dodges because they have leaps and evades tied to the auto attacks. And these cant be interrupted. I doubt anet will ever design weapons like that again. Its a cause for mainy complaints.
Yeah i havent seen any working solutions in this thread either. Grandfathering wont work because people will have different maximum possible hero points. So ill give a few working ones. But i dont think anet will do any of them because they still have issues.
They could make 400 hero points be the requirement for all core stuff. Or they could unlock everything for you and give you a 65 hero point debt. But this would mean you still have to earn those extra points before you can even attempt to unlock the elite spec. Or they could auto complete 65 hero challenge but that would likely upset people who like doing map comp but havent gotten round to it on all their alts. Only other solution is to have WvW have everything auto unlock like in PvP.
It will be strong and people probably wont kick them as much anymore. But saying it will be meta is a bit of a jump at this point. What we have seen so far isnt quite enough to put it as a top pick. But with considerable number tweaks and better content that is definitely a possibility. Mainly thinking about content that requires epidemic or an AOE sustain bruiser to make things go faster.
Thats exactly how i feel about it with most of my alts. But i can accept it because logically its the only choice they have to provide a better system for the future. And you have so much time to prepare for the patch. You dont really have much grounds for complaint at this point.
It is their fault for introducing an abundance of skill point scrolls. But theres no other way out of it. Unless they plan to make all core specs and skills unlockable from just being level 80. But i feel like thats a bit too generous for future characters.
Either way you are going to have to grind hero challenges for the elite specs anyway. Probably more than 65 for an elite spec. So I think you are just going to have to embrace that they want you to earn your unlocks and get on with it. Its not ideal for everyone but you dont really have a choice.
That said they might surprise us and make WvW have everything auto unlocked like it is for PvP.
Well necros didnt get banned from instances. But we did get a stealth change to axe auto attack. It was to fix auto attack cancel abuse which resulted in double the attack speed. The new animation is buggy and has resulted in a slight increase repeat time. So the worst weapon in the game was nerfed slightly. x)
We dont have active defence so we need insane sustain to survive an outnumbered fight. And its only insane in ideal circumstances for a very brief time. Once our rapid hit AOE abilities are on cooldown we only have slow hits. Which means are sustain drops off dramatically.
Yeah well they have managed to break dungeon waypoints and dungeon terrain without even touching dungeons before. So dont be so surprised with elaborate bugs.
Yeah i just logged in and checked it out. I believe its an indication that they might be reworking axe ready for the spec changes. That said its clearly a bug that the unfinished animation has been implemented with this patch. :P
It doesnt actually seem to hit slower from what i can tell. Its just the animation and tooltip that changed.
I mean after today`s patch. My offhand weapon vanishes when the animation is used also. I tested with warhorn, offhand dagger and focus., and it is really annoying…
Focus 5 is too slow. There will be plenty of other ways to open with chill. You can immediately swap to GS > RS > Chill field. Or you can place staff marks down on the spot the boss is going to be pulled to before getting in combat. Or people can open with an icebow 3. Or we can trait for chilling darkness and drop nightfall immediately. There are so many ways to get that chill on right at the start. You will probably never need focus 5 unless you want to strip some boons.
