Guild Wars 2

Guaranteed rewards encourage more players to experience the content. That can only be a good thing.

Anyway as far as im concerned. Rewards should have the option to be monetized. I have no need for anymore ascended trinkets. And the only use for ascended armour boxes and weapons i have is if i happen to get raiders and its something other than gloves (only need medium ascended armour at this point). Ive got almost all fractal skins i want. So i have no use for those either. If i could trade in unwanted rewards for relics. And then buy things i can make money with from those relics. I would be happy.

And i dont think buying fractal skins or the tonic is an issue (it makes the rewards representative of someone who has actually spent a lot of time doing fractals rather than who is just super lucky). But i would also just be happy with the fractal weapon box we were supposed to get. Hopefully the rng on getting that isnt totally borked.

BunjiKugashira.9754:

Leveling masteries will be the same als leveling your character. Heck, you even have to do the same things to level them! So asking for mastery-progression to be account-bound is the same as asking for characterlevels to be account-bound. Because leveling your alts to lvl 80 is way too much of a grind…

Why not open a new thread and ask for levels to be removed completely? Because kitten grind…

Lol. Now you are just being ridiculous.

Ele. The D/F build on ele is a lot of fun to play. Fluid playstyle, lots of versatility, mobility and damage. And then you can also just go staff for op aoe dps. Plus its the best class in all 3 gametypes. So its a safe pick if you just want something useful.

For the husks you can just add a dark path to the dagger rotation and let the barbed precision procs do the work. You really dont need to build for killing husks. They die plenty fast enough.

The difference doesnt really matter. In both cases the optimal strategy is to disable them and aoe burst. And that involves control.

Also with fractal mobs it depends on the mob type. Ascalonians are well designed but it seems they are overtuned for difficulty (unneeded). Aetherblade are also well designed but undertuned. Molten alliance are a little simple but they make up for it by being tuned to hit hard and attack in large groups.

I was just about to list all the groups then i realised all mob types in fractals are tuned for difficulty in fractals, there are different difficulty scales after all. Some are tuned more than others. But at the same time they all have decent base mechanics. In fact the range of mechanics is only slightly smaller than mordrem. But there is still plenty going on. Dredge boon sharing, ascalons being op versions of the different classes, cultists having evades and grawl having pulls and immobilises.

I think people tend to overlook the fact that many old mobs do actually have quite a lot of good mechanics. Mordrem are just fresh and have slightly more variation. So people automatically assume all the old mob types are just basic high damage mobs by comparison.

Why is it wrong to compare? You said mordrem or better designed mobs require the use of control conditions. Im telling you fractal 50 mobs already require heavy use of control conditions. So it doesnt matter what mechanics you give them, necro is still not going to be any better than other classes for the job.

I was naming those from personal experience but ok. The things i mentioned are used in various places such as fractals on a regular basis. If they werent as good as a necros ability to use control conditions then necros would be meta for fractals. They are not, so we can assume that control is not something necro has an advantage on.

And this is the thing. I go on necro and i have an easier time surving trash groups. But overall i feel a lot less useful because at best i provided a slow pulse blind and some minor aoe. This isnt going to change with new AI. Because our control conditions are no better than any other class. And an entire group of decent classes can cover all the bases without wasting a slot on a necro. Our only hope is the specialisation. You guys really need to get your heads out of the clouds and accept that.

PS. Fractal 50 trash mobs are far more challenging than mordrem. So dont give me the arguement that more challenging trash mobs will make necros good. Yes they make you use more control and control conditions. But as i said necros have no real advantage when it comes to control. Its a common misconception built on the fact that we have nothing else to define ourselves with.

Edit:
@Atherakhia
Necro does use focus btw (reapers touch op). But its a high cast time single target chill. Not much use on trash mobs. :P

And thieves get invited to groups because of spammable blasts, blinds and stealth. Give necro plenty of blasts and we would definitely be more welcome in casual groups.

dboylolz.3916:

Was it agreed during the meeting? I don’t really remember, but the boss isn’t completely disabled; he still does his AoEs and I would argue that it should be allowed. And honestly, there are so many places you can “bug” him that it seems more like an annoyance having to focus on not doing it.

Yeah i personally think it should be allowed. If it wasnt mentioned in the meeting then its allowed for the time being.

You answered your own question. And unless you specify we cant really say. :P

ShadowRX.9024:

If you are talking about cm p2 Turmaine(endboss) you are not allowed to bug him in the barrels/on the rock/on top of the house. It completly disables the boss and it was discussed on the last meeting to be banned from trio.

If its not that boss please specify wich boss it is.

He still throws his grenades so its not completely disabled. But if that was agreed to be banned at the meeting then it seems it needs to be added as a path specific rule.

Iris Ng.9845:

Well, that tree is a good los spot tho :o

Was referring to the piddly twig of a tree right next to where she spawns. The symbol was covering that.

That moment when you try to temp curtain her out of the retal symbol and she gets stuck on a tree. >.>

I think the pushing to the wall is for bosses like slaver driver in cof p1. Where people still push him onto the wall for absolutely no reason. Would be better to icebow 5 him.

They barely have to sacrifice anything for those control conditions. Eles have frozen ground on staff and chill on icebow. Engis have chill on nade kit. Engi’s only need to take net turret and rotate with rifle for perma immob. Ranger has entangle, warrior has sword burst skill and throw bola (minor sacrifices considering the role a warrior has), thief has sword immob, guard has scepter and hammer if needed, mesmer has sword and ele has dagger earth 3 or staff earth 5. Plenty of immob and its almost all on standard meta build weapons. Cripple is in abundance for warrior on axe and gs. Thief also has a spammable cripple on offhand dagger.

I could go on and on but im sure you understand what im getting at. Theres just no reason to take a necro purely for debuffs when all classes can easily contribute to them in plenty on their own and while also providing other more useful utility at the same time.

Weakness is interesting because necro actually doesnt have that great access to it in their damage rotation. They get 2 seconds every 10 seconds through weakening shroud. Its true other classes do also have to make sacrifices for it. However a thief gets it on dagger auto attack through a minor trait and they also have a poison field on shortbow. And you literally almost always run shortbow on offhand for the blasts and mobility because you dont need two different melee sets in a single fight on a thief. Then theres also engis poison field. And warrior can often afford to take warhorn without losing much damage.

Necros do not have strong condi cleansing in their damage builds. They have a selfish cleanse though. Eles, engis, thieves, rangers and guardians all have free group cleanses without changing builds/utilities at all. Mesmer usually has free utility slots for most fights so they also get a no sacrifice group condi cleanse.

I conceded you may have a point with boon strips. But i also pointed out that good groups will most likely find better ways to counter the mechanic. For example by using interrupts. And if not then they will just take a mesmer (has more frequent boon strips) or a guardian with searing flames trait.

And those debuffs can be done in abundance by other classes. The boon strip is the only solution that might hold any weight. But thats bound to just kitten people off. Besides good groups will probably find ways to counter it by interrupting. Thus the meta remains unchanged but requires a bit more coordination.

The harsh truth is we dont do control conditions better than most other classes. So we wont see an improvement unless the specialisation gives us more. There is literally nothing necro does better than any other class except maybe chill. But ele and engi have plenty enough chill for necro to not matter if we actually need chill for something.

I am holding out for improvements on the specialisation. But im calling it now. The base class will still be just as terrible for PvE in HoT even with more challenging and improved AI.

Thats not true. Its not that enemies arent designed for what necro has. Its that necros arent designed to contribute to efficiency. The PvE gametype is about controlling AI which means the most effective tactic is to use group buffing and control conditions to protect yourself. Necro doesnt fit into a group buff or defensive utility role and so it has no place. Even if mobs suddenly became more like PvP players you would still see an ele centered meta. Because eles bring everything in terms of control conditions, defensive utility and damage + blasts galore and perma fury. PvE is a gametype where boons and buffs are more important that debuffs. Thats not going to change. And it doesnt help that other classes have really good access to both.

The reason necros are fine in WvW is because of the severe unavoidable aoe spam in zergs and necros base high durability. If it werent for that you would see most necros replaced by eles. It really is as simple as that.

And also the triple trouble demand for condi necros is based on ignorance and the fact that you cant blacklist certain classes in open world. Warriors and engis are far superior at condi damage. Necros are pretty weak by comparison. In an organised triple trouble run epidemic is mostly useless.

Theres actually really simple ways to bring necro into a really good position. And that is to give them blast finishers and a projectile block or some other utility. In an organised run the composition is made from eles for damage and might, warriors for buffs, thief for stealth and mesmer/guard for portal/utility/reflect/stability. If you give necro some of the latter necro can now be part of the optimum compositions as an alternative to guard/mesmer. Then you have a good casual group class like engi which can perma immobalise which completely disables bosses like arch diviner in an organised group. They also have an abundance of other utility to varying degrees.

I dont like being locked out of content nor do i like meaningless progression. I like to enjoy the content with complete characters. So i am thankful its account bound. I only have to suffer through the progression grind once that way. Good content should stand strong on its own. There is no need to lock it behind progression.

Unfortunately the MMO genre is plagued by this grindy mindset and players seem to enjoy/need it to a certain degree. I do admit it helps keep people invested in the game if they have spent a lot of time and grinded through a lot of progression. So i can see why anet has done it. Im just grateful they avoided more gear progression and are making masteries account bound. That makes it bearable for players like me.

From what weve heard it sounds like each specialisation gives the class a single new weapon. And I believe that replaces a single weapon from the base class. So the number of weapons per class doesnt change.

Necros being unwanted is not a symptom of the zerker meta. If condis were part of the meta necros would still be unwanted. Warriors and engis do condi damage much better. Even mesmer does to a certain extent.

ODB is correct in that it really just looks like you are just speaking from an anti zerk perspective. If you truly cared about necros and not the whole meta thing you would ask for things which allow necro to fit into the game in its current format. That means bending to the meta to a certain degree. In other words giving us meaningful support, utility and group buffing (Making us less selfish).

Plus kiting is actually very prevalent in high level fractals. Its just done at max melee range with melee weapons. And saying there is no risk when stacking shows how little you know. Also stacking is an out of date tactic now (pugs are slow to adapt). The meta is to stack might and fight the bosses where they spawn in melee (i guess thats sort of stacking?). Dungeons are old content so its no wonder they are easy for organised glass groups. But looking at your knowledge im guessing you have never run in a full glass group for fractal 50. There is serious risk in fractals when doing that.

If its easier then it should be slower. Which is how it is currently and will stay like that. But yeah they will probably increase base difficulty a bit. But id hardly call it much of a difference. Silverwaste mobs are far less challenging than many fractal mobs.

Yeah totally forgot to mention that. It would definitely make me very happy.

Approved.

Well actually if you are going to use a corruption sigil then you should place it on a second scepter or dagger. And you should have battle on a weapon that is shared on both weapon sets. Then strength on the other. So battle scepter and strength dagger on the first set and then a corruption dagger on the second weapon set. If you need energy sigils then you place battle scepter on first set and energy dagger on second set and swap on cooldown. For the fights that require energy sigils it really does limit your sigil choice.

And in the case of TA FF if you are going solo you will almost definitely get downed at some point in the fight with leurent or his guards. In a group it hardly matters and you should be stacking bloodlust for the tree if you care that much. Besides that stacking spot is very close to the end of the dungeon. I just dont believe its worth the expense of making another weapon anymore.

If they kicked you late the chances are they kicked you for another reason. Such as conflicting playstyles. For example if you were ranging all the time with a bearbow or spamming longbow knockback you are bound to kitten people off and get yourself kicked. Not saying thats what you did. But it seems like some of the times you got kicked were because of reasons other than just being a ranger. Either way its a lame move to kick someone at the very end. But i severely doubt they kicked you for no reason. You probably did something which annoyed them so they decided to be kittenbags and kick you at the end just to be spiteful.

Theres nothing you can do when this sort of thing happens. Its unfortunate but thats how it is. Just report them and move on. Being kicked before you start is fair enough though. Some people just dont want to run with rangers or necros. I do sympathise with you when they join a group with a ranger already in and then kick you though. If they dont want rangers they should make their own LFG.

My main wants are better fractal rewards, new fractals and tiers, [b]aetherpath tweaks[b] and new content in HoT. Dungeon bugs are pretty minor issues for me but i wouldnt complain if they got a bit of attention.

I think pushing for aetherpath tweaks towards replayability is definitely something quite reasonable and should not be too much work for the devs. There was a lot of ideas in those feedback threads we made which we never got any news about. No idea if we can still see them somewhere or if Regina moved them somewhere hidden.

The rings are worth 5 silver thats not even worth vendoring. They are completely useless to anyone that does regular fractals as they should have stockpiles of them already.

The skins are totally useless when you get something like your 3rd fractal scepter. All they do is take up bank space. Before when they were statless exotics we had to use transmutation stones to put the skin on a weapon but at the least we could salvage them for exotics if we didnt need them. Now we cant even do that. I dont have any use for my stockpile of fractal skins. Id like to be able to do something with them.

As someone said before. The rewards are pretty good for new players. The problem is fractals are endgame content for hardcore players. They should be rewarding for hardcore players.

I think we can allow it as its on stream. Its only an issue if people dont believe when you did it. Records are mostly approved based on trust so the f11 thing is more of an insurance incase someone disputes. Or atleast thats how it was in the past.

Still not showing for me. I deleted my cache aswell.

I just added a bunch of all time duo records for Goku. But the duo record page is only showing solo records for some reason (the exact same as on the solo page). Im guessing the category setting for that page is incorrect.

insanemaniac.2456:

spoj.9672:

Yeah dozens of ascended rings worth absolutely nothing. Highest chance for ascended chests except for PvP and every other source of ascended chests. Unique skins which almost never drop and you never get the ones you want. Also you cannot do anything except destroy any duplicate skins.

Normal dungeons have gold and tokens which can be turned into more gold. So yeah dungeon rewards are far superior. And dungeons take between 3 and 15 minutes. Whereas fractals at the higher levels take about 40-50 mins on a good run. Hmmmmmmmm.

i think i get pink chests from fractals more frequently than pvp, normalized for time spent ofc.

dungeons give you liquid cash. fractals gives you expensive things you may not want. whether its worth it depends on your long term goals.

Well ive heard that ascended chests drop more at lower levels. As someone that does 50’s regularly. I can say without a doubt the rewards are beyond terrible. Noone gets skins, noone gets ascended boxes. Everyone gets either a ring they have 5000 of already (often uninfused) or nothing at all. And then in the boss chest we would be lucky to get a single rare and maybe a cheap glacial core.

And then you also have to remember that endgame content that rewards you stuff that you dont need and cant do anything with is a bit messed up. Getting a bad stat combo armour box or your next useless ring only takes up a bank slot or gives you a couple of silver. This is repeatable content which should be rewarding to hardcore players no matter what.

We should be able to do things with the rewards we get. So give us ascended salvaging or up the vendor price on rings and armour boxes. Give us the option to spend relics to trade in our unwanted rewards for different rewards. Then we might be able to agree the rewards arent bad. Oh and make the gold reward between the tiers noticeably different. Fractal 50 giving 30s more than a fractal 10 is a huge joke.

Doubt it.

Yeah dozens of ascended rings worth absolutely nothing. Highest chance for ascended chests except for PvP and every other source of ascended chests. Unique skins which almost never drop and you never get the ones you want. Also you cannot do anything except destroy any duplicate skins.

Normal dungeons have gold and tokens which can be turned into more gold. So yeah dungeon rewards are far superior. And dungeons take between 3 and 15 minutes. Whereas fractals at the higher levels take about 40-50 mins on a good run. Hmmmmmmmm.

xDudisx.5914:

You can buy ascended rings with them. I think that is enough reward for fractals considering normal dungeons give you no ascended.

Yeah you are so right! /s

I dont want more outfits. I want more armour choice.

But yes we could do with a bit more variation. Id like a few more cloth trouser options for example. Almost all cloth leggings are skirts or have some kind of hanging part. And yeah some cloth armour with some bits of plate on it would be nice. But not so much that it no longer feels like light armour.

Windsagio.1340:

spoj.9672:

So you cherry picked one game? Its hardly a trend.

Wildstar was actually very successful with raiding. Its just the rest of the game was terrible. Which is the real cause of its failure. It could have worked if more effort was put into the rest. I mean a big part of raiding is having alts and if the leveling experience is crap then thats basically asking for failure.

I sourced 3 games, although I was being cute with 1.

1) Wildstar – People make excuses, but one of the main things they’re trying to change to salvage the game is raiding
2) Lotro, ABSOLUTELY EXPLICIT
3) GW2 – designed without exclusive raiding. Also, apparently poor dungeon participation and disbanded dungeon team.

~~~

I’ve been accused of being dismissive, and I want to be careful with that, but this really reads me as a case of you seeing what you want to see. There’s nothing that will convince you, but you’re only setting yourself up for an ugly reality check down the line.

GW2 doesnt count. It doesnt currently have any form of raids. Wildstar maybe changing raids to help salvage the game, i dont know anything about that. But i severely doubt their solution is to make it open world. So you still only have one example. Even accepting your examples, 3 is hardly a trend. You named 1 game which doesnt have raids in any form and 2 already released games which are suffering due to various reasons so some change is needed. But i havent seen any new under development MMO’s or other old MMO’s suddenly announcing there wont be any instanced content.

And if anything the recent complaints about living story, open world stuff not being enough and activity dropping severely before HoT was announced, suggests that people do want something different. To me that sounds like a lot of people do want instanced content.

I think its you who needs a reality check. Instanced content is not going to hurt the game but neglecting groups is. Most people would prefer anet to stop supporting PvP but thats not going to happen because its not beneficial to the game as a whole. Its the same with instanced stuff. Which is why it seems we are getting at the least some fractal attention in HoT. And i am hopeful of something else aswell based on the Raid CDI.

So you cherry picked one game? Its hardly a trend.

Wildstar was actually very successful with raiding. Its just the rest of the game was terrible. Which is the real cause of its failure. It could have worked if more effort was put into the rest. I mean a big part of raiding is having alts and if the leveling experience is crap then thats basically asking for failure.

Windsagio.1340:

Looking at the genre: The movement is away from instanced raiding. Why is this if it isn’t due to cost/benefit analysis?

Ive not seen any evidence of this. Are you making it up?

Arcadio.6875:

Arguing semantics. It’s already been explained many times what people want for this game. No need to keep bringing up problems from other games that people aren’t asking for here. The devs used the word raids in the CDI while also explaining it wouldn’t be implemented the exact same way as other games here if they were to do it.

This. Thank you.

Bernie.8674:

spoj.9672:

So fractals and dungeons werent worth putting in the game because they create exclusivity? I think a lot of players would have a problem with what you are implying. Even players who dont spend most of their game time in dungeons and fractals.

When was the last time you saw a new fractal or dungeon? Besides, low level fractals are pretty easy. The most difficult fractals I’ve endured are still a little less difficult than the LFR version (easy mode raiding) of the SOO raid in WoW. I wouldn’t consider fractals and dungeons exclusive. I’ve two-manned some bosses, and I’m pretty sure that anything could be at least four-manned in there. No single player is going to prevent you from finishing a fractal.

So why would raids/elite zones/missions be any different? Get your head out of other games raid systems please. I dont know how many times i can repeat that.

Astralporing.1957:

spoj.9672:

Windsagio.1340:

Fractals and dungeons both are substantially less exclusive than instanced raids, and that’s the basis of the problem.

Heres the big problem. You are coming into this thread with a predefined idea of what raids in GW2 should be. Who said anything about instanced raids being more exclusive than fractals?

All those people that said they wanted raids because current gw2 content (which includes fractals) is not challenging enough, perhaps?

Ok so the only increase in exclusivity we are talking about is difficulty. That was not what i was referring to (as its minor and unavoidable even in open world content). Doesnt change the fact that raids can be made inclusive to suit other players desires (difficulty scales/story modes). So you really havent done what i said and pulled away from the predefined definitions of raids you have in your mind. Please try again and give constructive compromises.

I actually feel sorry for the WvW specialist. Have you seen the welcome he got? I dont envy the task he has ahead of him.

Communication improvements are always good. And i trust Rising to do a good job communicating our feedback. The real question is whether the Devs actively take on the feedback given in the right way. But that is out of our hands and always has been. Atleast this way they are less likely to miss the core issues that concern us the most. It all depends on the devs in the end though.

Why? Theres no sarcasm involved. The rewards in fractals are completely awful.

If you have specific things you find you need help with try asking on the dungeon sub forum. Its where most dungeon solo’ers hang out. Some advice that may be useful can be completely unrelated to the class you are playing. And obviously thats the place to ask for specifics about dungeons.

Soloing is about adapting. Go into any dungeon that can be solo’d (doesnt have player number requirements like cof p1) and just try things. A true soloer shouldnt be asking how to do it. You should be testing and discovering what works on your own. The fun and accomplishment of soloing is all about working these things out for yourself and achieving them without help. Theres no pressure when you are soloing a dungeon for the first time. Spend hours learning and then tackle it again once you know what to do.

The general starting point for a soloer is a high damage build of some sort. So thats either condi or power for necro. And for many fights you will have to tweak at the very least your utilities but often also traits and weapons. But it really depends if you want to go fast or not. I mean you could probably go full nomads and faceroll solo most content if you wanted. x)

Windsagio.1340:

Fractals and dungeons both are substantially less exclusive than instanced raids, and that’s the basis of the problem.

Heres the big problem. You are coming into this thread with a predefined idea of what raids in GW2 should be. Who said anything about instanced raids being more exclusive than fractals?

This discussion was done to death in the Raid CDI. The devs explicitly told people to stop talking about predefined ideas of raids from other games and basing complaints off of them. And told people to come up with ideas on how raids could work in GW2.

And to be honest it would be good of you to do the same rather than just argueing against content because your current ideas of it arent what you desire. It would be much more constructive to give feedback on how instanced content could be implemented in a way which you can support. Rather than just flat out saying no because of your experiences in other completely different games.

So fractals and dungeons werent worth putting in the game because they create exclusivity? I think a lot of players would have a problem with what you are implying. Even players who dont spend most of their game time in dungeons and fractals.

MMO’s require both forms of content. There are many groups of players. They all have different priorities. You cannot and should not lump them all in together. It causes hostility. Do you really want players like me suddenly going full elitist in your open world maps because i dont have anywhere else to satisfy my desire for efficiency? And dont say the games not for me as an excuse. I like the combat system, its different to any other game. And when the game was released it had dungeons and then a short while after it had fractals. The already supports instanced content and has made players like me invest in it longterm. Its a good move for anet to expand on something they started at release.

Also nothings truly challenging when its open world. Because you can just zerg it. They said they want to make truly challenging content in HoT. They are going to miss that mark completely if its all open world or all zergable. You need instances to limit the players options to complete something. Restricting the number of players is one of the best and easiest ways to maintain difficulty.

Im starting to run out of bank tabs. Kind of hope for both the ability to have even more bank tabs than currently and for something to do with my 4 and a half tabs full of rings and duplicate fractal skins.

Bernie.8674:

spoj.9672:

The same arguement can be made for Triple Trouble, Tequatl and Silver Wastes. I forced myself to play those just to get a few achieves and exclusive rewards. I will never touch them again now that im done because they are just completely unfun and not worth the time. There is already exclusivity and inaccessibility in the game. I dont see why a new part which satisfies a rather neglected part of the community is suddenly so outrageous.

I’m at a loss. You are admitting that you find the closest activity that this game has to a raid to be “unfun and not worth the time,” but you’re asking for more stuff like that to be added to the game? You’re not being very convincing.

I dont see how open world content where im forced to play with complete strangers is comparable to a raid or other instanced content where i have complete control over who is involved. Triple Trouble, Tequatle and Vinewrath are far from raids. They are just open world bosses. Although with a bit more of an organisation requirement. They are not worth the time due to how poor the rewards are compared to the time taken. And they are not fun because my individual contribution is essentially nothing when in a zerg.

And to clarify. I really dont care what anet calls it. I just want some new challenging instanced content. They can call it raids, dungeons, missions or elite zones. As long as its challenging, instanced and has good rewards then i will be happy.

Approved and added. :>

Approved and added to restricted all time.

Edit: Just a note. Were allowing 49’s for all time records but in future they should all be done at 50. And KINGs record has been added as unrestricted.

Whats unrestricted about the cliffside one. It looks like it can be in all time restricted unless im missing something. :P

Edit: Ahaha fair enough.