Guild Wars 2

It seems most ascended were already 10% better than Exotics. Speaking about jewelry here. Only armor for sure was at 5%. Armor also gives a very very tiny amount of stats so the shift from 5% to 10% will not amount to much.

The real issue is that all equipment gets 30% more stats which does widen a lot the gap between exotic and ascended. It seems that with the trait stats gone and the 30% bonus, Exotic geared players will be slightly worse for the primary stat than before the patch. So in a sence, this change nerfs Exotics a little. On the other hand, Ascended geared players will have slightly better stats than before the patch.

You know, the outrage IS pretty similar to them announcing they are shutting down the game yeah.

It’s part of the emotional attachment we put into our GW2 accounts, their perceived value. Now, the HoT expansion is here and many players feel like, you either buy it, or you kind of stop playing the game (no new updates, no more LS content, lack of access to potentially maybe OP classes for PvP etc…). So Anet is asking us to choose between what we feel is a price gouging or them closing the servers for us :p

It’s not really rational but customers aren’t rational in the first place and that’s something marketing should know and predict.

Cormac.3871:

stof.9341:

Entitlement is very close to something we like to call “customer rights”.

You are entitled to get what you paid for. If you haven’t paid for it you aren’t entitled to it. If someone charges too much for something you are entitled to be disappointed, or to take you business elsewhere, but you are not entitled to make them lower it.

I am disappointed with the price. I have not decided if I will go elsewhere, although I will probably stop buying gems for a while if I do get the expansion. I also think that a lot of what has been written reeks of entitlement.

Consumer rights include stuff like : the right of the consumers complaints to be heard, the rights to be informed regarding the price,quality,quantity,etc.,regarding the products and that we should be provided wide variety of goods to choose from.

ANet fails rather kitten those three points here, well until they respond to our complaints :p

And there’s another one about the right of redress which concerns the recent buyers from the core game that would never have bought it if they knew the HoT preorder was around the corner and such a good deal for people that didn’t own the core game yet. And their right is to get a good redress regarding that complaint.

Entenkommando.5208:

That’s like buying some beer with a free bottle opener as marketing and asking to get the beer on discount instead because you already have one. That makes no sense.

A better analogy is asking for a discount cause I already have an opener, getting refused, buying the beer anyway and then the vendor snatches back the opener because “you don’t need it, you already have one”

False advertising or deceptive advertising is the use of false or misleading statements in advertising

So here you are. You can have false advertising while still saying the truth. You have to admit that the FAQ was rather misleading. Proof : many players were mislead into buying the core game because they tough that specific purchase would be required of them to purchase HoT itself.

What they should have done is make that kind of items salvage for barely nothing in mats.

It would crash the market of the “nearly impossible to drop” runes and sigils one can buy socket in items from the karma vendors.

Entenkommando.5208:

The new pvp browser, new pvp maps, the new WvW ranks, the WvW ruins, fractals, ascended gear, Guild missions, the improved world bosses, everything. All the things you did get for free.

Actually, those were paid for by the gem sales.

Reminder about potential conflict of interest in the topic at hand :

!https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/194285/not_sure.png!

Entenkommando.5208:

It is for free.

A few months ago it was in sale for only 10$ so where is your problem to believe that the price went from 10$ to 0$ now?

They also confirmed that the price of 50$ was firm, with or without the base game.

Sales do not affect the perceived value of an item or else we’d never feel good from the fact we bought something in sale. It’s the kitten whole reason why businesses do not put stuff for a fair price but rather increase the price and put it in sale later : customers love that.

As for believing the current value of the core game is $0, yeah I do not. Although I could be convinced if I could actually acquire the core game for that price.

Entitlement is very close to something we like to call “customer rights”.

But Blizzard increased the price, but it was fair cause everyone is on the same point. You still need the base game to play WoDraenor :p

Sure the base game price diminishes over time, but it doesn’t suddenly become 0. And the day it becomes 0, aka anyone can start playing the base game for free, people that bought this package earlier would also throw a fit if some exclusive goodies weren’t directed at them.

I have yet to see a MMO go from B2P to F2P without existing customer gaining something in return. Usually a special status.

I have yet to see a MMO or similar game (Diablo III for ex) add a new class without increasing the player max char slot.

For all those things ANet didn’t follow, players feel like ANet is greedy with them, thus outrage happens.

Also, I disagree about that base price. There’s plenty of small games that survive on donations in the first place. Donations for free games is like asking players if they want to pay $0 or $10 for the game and they answer $10 cause they feel it’s worth it. It happens.

thewaterguy.4796:

I don’t have a problem with this, I don’t know where people got the idea Revenant would be free, most MMO’s that release a new class bundle it with an expansion that you must buy if you want to play new said class, why should GW2 be any different?

And practically every MMO or non MMO game that packs a new class/race in an expansion pack gives away char slots so that maxed out players can use it without feeling forced into buying an extra. Forcing people into buying an extra breeds negativity.

Tera will even add a new class in a free game update, and they say they’ll give a free char slot to everyone at that time too! Look at that, they can afford to give a free char slot to everyone that paid the $0 cost of their free expansion pack somehow.

Well you don’t understand why people are mad, which is why you wouldn’t make a good marketer, and I guess it’s something ANet has a shortage of :p

The issues are varied really, some people don’t want to preorder cause the item we buy is actually rather unspecified. Others complain because they feel (customer feeling is important you know!) ANet is stealing money from them.

That’s right, although many won’t exactly explain it in this term, the feeling is such. See, you have this account with GW2 you purchased years ago and play and play and play. Right now, this account has a lot of value to you. Quite a lot if fact. From a purely monetary standing point, at the strict minimum it’s worth the price of a new game right now (which is lower than you paid originally). From a more emotional point, the chars in it, all the items you farm, all the things you did also have some unspecified and sometimes big value.

How is ANet stealing money from them? By declaring that the game is not worthless. That’s right, ANet made a statement which is : Core GW2 has a value of $0 now. So the purely monetary value of our account just dropped, a lot => cue the feeling that ANet is stealing money from us.

As for the emotional value, they aren’t stealing it, it’s even worse : they are holding it hostage ! Many people thing that without buying the expansion, it’s kind of over for their account. It isn’t exactly false since you’ll miss on all the fun your friends have, you might never get any new piece of content, you might not have access to the new meta sPvP/PvE classes etc… This is a hostage situation which breeds ill will towards ANet. Same kind of “hostage” situation if you buy the base HoT, and now notice you need to pay MORE just to use one of the features you desire : the Revenant class.

This was the explanation on why some people are angry. It’s a kind of human behavior that marketing and sales and the like should know about, predict and act accordingly you know. It’s their job after all.

ANet stealing us the value of the core game? Have them replace it with something, anything that will have some other value in it’s place.

Well the difference will increase by 30% anyway.

Zappix.7928:

People are talking about Factions (released 2 slots for Ritualist and Assassin) and Nightfall (2 slots for Paragon and Dervish).

Whilst this is an expansion, it’s releasing a new profession, the basic $50 version should come with at least 1 new slot as part of the package. It would fall in line with their previous way of releasing slots with the introduction of new profession/s. Regardless of if it’s a expansion or standalone.

Technically even, GW1 had an expansion that didn’t include new classes but still had 2 char slots. If you bought Factions or Nightfall first, then upgraded your account with Prophecy you’d get 2 slots for 0 new classes.

Where can I buy that free thing? I could use a few laurel farming accounts.

Jitsuryoku.9038:

You forgot about other choices like:
-Not buying the expansion (possibly buy it around Christmas)
-Grinding for gold to buy gems.
-Quit the game

Well it was implied that if the 4 choice I gave weren’t satisfactory, the result would be to not buy HoT.

I’d like to note that the concept of “grinding gold to buy gems” is roughly equivalent to “shelling out $10 to buy a slot” but in a way that is more boring and cost me more time of my life thus a definitively less effective method and not worth considering.

GW1 expansion didn’t include a new class or race so no reason really to need a new slot.

Here I have 4 choices :
- fork an extra $10
- create a new account and leave all my 6 chars in the “dust”
- delete a char I spent time building, leveling and equipping
- just not use that new HoT feature, the Revenant, which in a way cheapens the value of the addon itself I’m buying

Zenthieth.9431:

I honestly think that the base expansion not including a new character slot is fair. Sure, the old gw1 campaigns gave you 2 free slots, but they were stand alone. If you bought prophecies first that one gives you 6 while the others gave you 2 each.

That’s not how GW1 worked. The first game wasn’t the “core”, it was just the first campaign. Each campaign was independent and usable and come with 2 character slots. Also, each account gets for free 2 complementary slots by default.

So if you bought Nightfall alone, you’d get 4 slots. Then you buy Prophecies and you’d get 2 more slots for 0 new classes (cause all the Prophecy classes were included in the other campaigns)

CF http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Character_slot

A free slap in the face might be free, it doesn’t make it desirable.

Also technically, I don’t think you can buy the core game anymore so it isn’t free. It has no price really.

Sold Out.7625:

Because THIS IS THE EXPANSION PRICE. Live with it. You don’t pay more for the Core game. But reading is hard, I know.

This isn’t a matter of “this is the price” or not. It’s a matter of doing it in a way that doesn’t result in kittenstorms on the internet. ANet is notoriously bad at that.

It’s a matter of perception. I know that perception is very subjective but as I said, manipulating and predicting percetion is part of the job ANet should be doing.

In this case, the perception is that :
- I’m a veteran player, I paid I don’t know how much for the game and currently you can get it for as low as $20 if you do it smartly. I can let that slide since everything lowers in price over time
- The expansion comes out and costs me $50
- The expansion has one of the major features be a new class and it’ll cost me $10 more to play it cause … my char slots are maxed for some strange reason

So, as a veteran, I feel like I’ll have after the HoT purchase spent $80 to get the game, while new players will have spent $50 for more or less the same value. Yes I know it’s not the same thing, those $80 gave me one extra char slot etc… But it’s perception. And the perception currently is that I’ll have to spend $30 more than new players to enjoy HoT.

This is too much plain and simple. Hence the complaints. What ANet should have done is throw us virtual bones that are more or less worthless but shift the value perception to a point where nobody complains. The easiest would be to give a free chat slot to players that already own the core game. It’s shift the value perception by a whole $20 back.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

stof.9341:

Cue in the legendary owners that will come complaining their “hard” work would be devalued.

To be fair, it would be. It is more expensive and more time consuming to obtain a legendary.

An alternative to the drop-down for ascended gear would be offering mystic forge recipes that allow conversion. Instead of old gear becoming useless, you could transform it instead. e.g. old ascended + spirit shards + vision crystal +

• T6 blood: zerker
• T6 totem: cleric’s

This would leave legendaries special (by allowing easy stat changes) while still offering up a simple and “reasonably” low-cost method of switching stats.

Another alternative would be to offer legendaries the chance to swap sigils.

I was farming for my legendary when they were fixed stats of the same level as exotics :o I stopped doing it when they were better with free stat change.

A “low cost” method of switching stats that cost THAT much in mats is in no way conductive to build experiments by players. This sucks really :/

I already suggested that when ascended was first revealed. It’s not a new idea in any way of form.

Cue in the legendary owners that will come complaining their “hard” work would be devalued.

Let’s not even talk about the huge cost experimenting with different builds XD

If the stat values hold, going from full exotic to full ascended currently adds 85 to your primary gear stat. With the change it’ll become 220 more in the primary stat.

Technically, WvW difficulty is scaled on the higher gear tier level :p

And you didn’t see the HoT new zones yet.

Also the 30% more stats on gear will make in absolute the stat gap between ascended and exotic absolutely huge.

From my perspective, it is a treadmill : I farmed my Exotics, then a patch comes and new gear is here I need to farm.

From a stat value point of view, the ascended armors were so low value one might consider they didn’t exist. That new patch “fixes” that so in a perceptive sense, we just got handed a new set of gear upgrade to farm.

This might not be a perfect fit for the “treadmill” definition but it sure looks a LOT like it.

Safari Tank.6238:

You’ll be just as strong as you are today in your exotic gear, but now you will have the opportunity to be even stronger by going Ascended. Don’t you want that option?

Hmm, no.

Exotics where in the game the day I bought it, not ascended :o If ANet had added Exotics suddenly in a patch, you would be completely in your right to complain.

It IS a threadmill. I was happy with my exotic set. Now there is a new gear tier that is 10% better that was added in a patch.

And 10 stacks of 8s of vulnerability while at it.

We need thief skills that are like the spy in TF2 : building jammers :p

It’s 6s of reveal btw.

That “Unique” modifier on ascended rings is a worthless gimmick anyway. The only thing significant is does is create pain in the poor users that got bitten by it.

The armor difference is so tiny it barely doesn’t change the effective HP vs non conditions. In sPvP, pure zerk no toughness trait lines light vs medium has the light user taking 8% more direct damage than the medium user.

Saying all classes need a 25% move speed trait is awfully close to saying everyone needs to equip their 25% move speed trait/signet which is bad in the first place.

Try that : http://pandateemo.github.io/YoloMouse/

It was created for Diablo III which has kind of the same issues, but a little less than GW2.

Sunshine.5014:

If your berserker thief gets two shot by any class, then a berserker Ele, with even less HP, will get one shot by any class?

Thief needs:

• reveal on block/miss/evade
• affected by Chill. Generate one initiative per 1.66s

Do you play the game at all? Thief got the same HP as Elementalist. They also only get a tiny slight bit more of armor so practically not mentionnable.

serenke.4806:

Quite simple. Have you ever seen a movie about snipers?

Have you ever seen a shield? When was the last time you saw someone raise a shield in front of his face, and by that process block a dagger applied on his back?

Maybe backstab should be unblockable when applied to the back.

It’d also make Retaliation a tool that his practically worthless against condition builds.

Better make the Retaliation damage apply the attacking skill damage coefficient into account.

ChoChoBo.6503:

In Dota/LoL, are the minion-NPCs a requirement to take out the turrets?

For Dota. Early game, definitively, towers do far too much damage for players to tank them. Trying to kill a T1 tower without creeps around will probably end up with all of you dead from a rotation from the other team. Later on you can manage somehow.

Then once you kill the first towers (T1) enters the realm of backdoor protection. All the remaining structures in the map are practically unkillable without creep help since they regen their life at a huge speed unless hostile creeps are nearby.

I’d rather get a 1h weapon or offhand than a rifle, just for the many possibilities of dual skill it’ll mean.

Toxsa.2701:

I don’t ask for destruction of other classes. I’m asking that Anet to make “Shared Anguish” comparable to thief’s “Hard to Catch” trait instead. Shorten the CD to 30 and add hide in plain sight into that trait function.

Ok but only if they remove every source of stability you currently have.

TyPin.9860:

Ever tried interrupting Hide in Shadows? You expect me to slot a 6 trait points skill on the off chance to actually hit a Hide in Shadows interrupt?

So you cannot interrupt a 1s cast glowy blue effect Hide in Shadows skill ? And you want to interrupt the thief weapon skills which more often than not have 1/4s to 3/4s cast time ?

Blizzard didn’t worry about making drasting changes to their whole gearing and stats system in WoW. ANet can do it too.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

This is inaccurate.

If the wall is your target, then yes it’s a hit. It cannot block you because it is your target.

Blocking is putting something in between you and your target. So even if you didn’t hit your target, you still hit the blocker, thus it should trigger the on hit effects like Larcenous Strike.

However, sneak attacks doesn’t cause revealed on hit, it cause revealed on damage.

Blocking is a hit that deals no damage, thus it doesn’t trigger revealed.

Although you do get the chain FS into LS when you hit an Endure Pain warrior even if you do no damage no?

What about the Cleansing Ire warrior trait that cleanses then when a burst skill hits? It cleanses them also when the longbow burst skill hits the ground

Lady Celtaine.3760:

I hope you are being sarcastic because if not then (insert profanity of your choice here ). By far one of the best selling points in this game is the range of customisation and the ability to experiment with builds is a fun little game in of itself. Whereas by contrast if PvP had all celestial only as an option we’d really get to see a player’s innate skillmanship trump the skill of the other player rather than letting the build do the killing for them. Feeling insulted yet? I do both pvp and pve and neither PvP nor PvE players will want their customisation taken away from them. If mandatory flat builds were implemented the game would be broken on a fundemental level and Anet would lose players and word of mouth sales as a result.

Funny, I find that (outside of sPvP), this game is anti experimentation. I’m still crying for my very expensive runes I put into gear I bought with WvW tokens and forgot I couldn’t salvage those. And now I got a new gear set and no runes to put inside.

I’d estimate it can cost me between 40 and 100g to try a new stat set with new runes, depending on the price of those. This is far too much for my poor self :’(

Stooperdale.3560:

‘Zerker only’ is a combination of problems
- no defensive balance is required in PvE – full dps provides defense by killing enemies
- the condition cap prevents conditions from being useful in PvE
- this only leaves 3 required stats : power, precision, and ferocity – dire and zerker

The first solution should therefore be a change to the condition cap. This would bring variation in builds with players selecting from four dps stats. This would also bring variety of gear and play style for different classes.

You would still see ‘dps only’ groups but that is a much harder issue to solve. If experienced dungeon runners need vitality/toughness when they are using optimum tactics, optimum builds, and good dodges, what hope is there for beginners?

Wrong. The issue is that gear on items (for PvE) doesn’t empower playstyles, they are just a kind of difficulty slider. The solution is easy though : ANet just needs to delete all gear stats in PvE and replace everything with Celestial.

niconori.7235:

when warrior is already superior to ranger in melee u want to make their ranged equal to ranger. talk about balancing.

I never said that, I was replying to someone thinking Warrior had the same range as Ranger on a Longbow by default to correct a small mistake. People are too much on the defensive here XD

Ehecatl.9172:

vincecontix.1264:

Rangers can keep the damage but then how about reduce there range to 1200.

So… You want the ranger to have to trait into their longbow to get the same range a warrior has on his longbow naturally?

A warrior has 1000 range on the longbow naturally and needs a trait to get 1200 : http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stronger_Bowstrings

Trait that only increases the range and nothing else (except the weird bug making one skill a projectile finisher)