Guild Wars 2

I feel like we’ll get rifle or longbow to finally give us a 1200 base range weapon.

Heck, maybe we’ll get rifle, with a specialisation called sniper and it’ll be 1500 base range or more too.

If we get the rifle, which kind of utility skills we’ll get to compliment it? We already got traps.

I want the princess wand :’(

Also lastly, you cannot actually buy more char slots in WoW so it’s not even something they sell. The lack of char slot in an expansion that affects you cannot even be attributed to greed of them wanting for us to fork more money.

Also when WotLK went out with the Death Knight, the char limit in a single server was at 10. And it just happens that the Death Knight was the 10th class in the game :p

So unless you made on a single server, twice the same class, while also filling up the 8 other char slots, ANd if you had no intention of playing on another server at all, you would be able to play a death knight without any issue. I doubt this situation would happen much, if at all.

When the Monk class was released, they upped the limit to 11 so that you could have one of every class on a single server.

Well it doesn’t work at all against engineers anyway. In fact, we even get 10% more damage instead :p

You think getting like 10 stacks of might when you block a flamethrower autoattack is fine? Retaliation is already BS enough as it stands.

I want more prepurchase bonuses too (which apply to all players, vet and new alike) :o A kittenty title and access to the beta is too little. But I can live without those.

Especially considering ANet asks us a lot of faith in making that purchase with still quite a few unknowns on the quantity of content along with the total release date mystery.

matrix seishin.5312:

I wouldn’t say “illegal”, I would say “fine use of a loop-hole”.

It’s all fun and games until someone goes to prison :p The fine line between “illegal” and “loop-hole”

Also, on a pure PR point of view, when your company does something, then customers complain they are treated unfairly. If your answer is “it’s not illegal, it’s a loop-hole!” you might find yourself with fewer customers in the short term.

Straylight.7529:

So? What is it you’re trying to say? You can give Arenanet more money if you think GW2 or HoT is worth more than 50$. Just buy gems.

An item value has usually little correlation with it’s price. ANet can only decide the item price. When ANet says the core game is given for free, anyone should know it’s bs and it’s actually paid for somewhere.

Now the issue is that the core now is exclusively sold as a promotional gift when you buy HoT. Now, people (should) start asking : “if core is given for free, who paid for it?”

And since veterans do NOT receive a core GW2 from that purchase, in fact, they get nothing at all other than HoT, they easily come to the conclusion that they are the ones paying for it. And thus they get angry.

You can put all the arguments of the world you want, this is basic human behavior and this is something some guys at ANet should have predicted if they didn’t sleep through their marketing classes.

As for “giving” ANet money, you know what? I was completely going to do that. When I saw HoT was $50 my first reaction was that the expansion pack itself was overpriced but I didn’t care too much because, meh why not? I got good enjoyment of GW2 and might even get good enjoyment of HoT. In a sense, since I valued HoT at less than $50 but was ready to buy it anyway, I was going to make some free donation to ANet.

But then, the unfairness of the new player deal and the lack of a required char slot just turned me off the purchase entirely.

Straylight.7529:

But that’s not for you to decide. It’s arenanets decision (or NCsoft I guess) how much they want to sell the content for.

Arenanet thinks the right to play those core game files is zero once HoT releases. Why do you have a problem with that?

ANet decides the price, but WE decide the value. GW2 core has value, quite a lot too. Even more if it’s an old account compared to a brand new.

Jongi.7612:

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

Just, please XD There is no such thing as a free lunch. Opportunity costs etc… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Do you really have no notion of economy at all? :’(

What about the good old saying, “time is money” ?

The curse of the char slot :p

ANet should have predicted the backlash because SO many players said they wanted a char slot bundled with HoT so that they can try the Revenant without having to pay extra. Also because it’s VERY common industry practice to do so.

But all that ANet saw in their greedy eyes was how many players wanted, no needed a char slot! And so they used that as a level to push them towards the more expensive packages.

Unfortunately for them, the more desirable an item, the more kittened off people are when you deprive them of it.

Here is an example of what ANet should have said :

“And for $50 you get HoT including the base game for new players! And for those of you that already got the game, well the Revenant is such an important part of the expansion pack, we really wouldn’t want any of you to be unable to try them as soon as you start the game, so you get instead 1 char slot when you buy HoT, and 2 if you take one of the more expensive packages”

Why new players don’t “need” that slot? Cause as soon as they finish installing the game, they already got 5 free slots and they can try any char they want instantly. It’s mostly a “battery not included” issue here.

Grimm.2685:

Sadly, Arena Nets generous offer toward new players has mutated into this bile filled cesspool of greed, entitlement and miss understanding. Those that cannot understand that this was an act of generosity and not a slap in the face to all existing players are not worthy of any freebies.

ANet is no charity. Their “generous” offer is still meant to make them win money.

Well I’m not a charity either. I’m happy for new players to get a good deal. But for fairness I want a good deal too. I don’t need the same deal, just something at least slightly equivalent or that feels like it.

Straylight.7529:

Yes, it’s possible. It’s happening right now. If you are a new player you get the core game for free if you purchase HoT. You pay for HoT you get the core game for free.

I guess this whole discussion has no meaning because some here make no effort to educate themselves in basic economy, like opportunity costs and the like.

Be careful though, lack of such basic knowledge makes you wide open for marketing scams.

Straylight.7529:

No one is buying the core game anymore. Veteran players buy HoT. New players buy HoT and get the core game for free.
No one buys for the core game anymore.

The core game isn’t free. It’s impossible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_free_lunch#Meanings

New players do not pay for the core game? Then someone else is paying for them. Since veteran players pay the same price for HoT than new players, they feel that THEY are paying for them. Which is why they are angry.

Jongi.7612:

Mr. Salty over here. And no your not paying for the core game again, your paying for HoT no matter if the core game is attached or not.

And who is paying for the new players core game?

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

It’s not getting through because it’s false. It’s just Anet wording it that way, but the game is no longer in the shop, and last time it was it costed 40 euros. 20 or 10 during sales.

But why would you buy the core game as a new player if you get the core game AND HoT for 50$?

And what if HoT is worthless and the core game is good? Why wouldn’t you just want to buy the good part?

Straylight.7529:

Again, stop thinking about what other people get. It’s none of your business if Bob gets a better deal because he’s a new player. All you have to ask yourself is “is HoT worth 50$ for ME”. That is something only you can decide and the answer should not be influenced if some other guy gets a free core game/character slot/mini/unicorn/whatever and you don’t.

You’ll be happier if you adopt this kind of non-envious thinking. Trust me.

You’re not purchasing a second core game. You are purchasing HoT. If you are a new player you get the core game for free.

Yeah that what we did. Here is more or less how it went while thinking about the package : HoT is sold to new players with a copy of GW2 core. GW2 core even if not for sale anymore is still worth at least $20 currently so the value of the HoT part of the package is at around $30. But somehow, I won’t receive my GW2 core. So I’m buying a $30 item by paying $50. This won’t do, let’s complain!

ANet words mean nothing. They can call that expansion kitten cure for all I care, I know what I’m buying (well, maybe not the content but that’s another issue XD) I get to decide the value of what I’m purchasing. I then compare that value to the price.

Straylight.7529:

You’re seeing it the wrong way. They’re not selling you the core game plus HoT. They are selling you HoT. You just happen to get the core game for free (because it’s a prerequirement to access HoT) if you are a new player. The price for HoT is 50$

translating your post into a different language wouldn’t get rid of it’s logical flaws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_free_lunch

It doesn’t just take some words to change the value of things.

Here’s another proof that the core game is NOT free.

You know why we preowners of the game do not get the core on top of the upgrade? Because ANet is scared we will sell it back! How can we sell an item that has no value?

Jongi.7612:

Then I want to see you on the WoW forums saying that all the WoW expansions should be the price they were on release, protesting agaisnt steam for having sales and anything of the sort. ANet are doing the exact same things the other companies did regarding previous games and expansions or even older games. The scenario is no different.

I perfectly fine with the notion that promotions happen over time. My fault for not taking them, or my advantage for getting the product early and making use of it without waiting cause I’m impatient! It was my choice and it’s a fact of life I know would happen.

But I’m not fine with having a promotion RIGHT now that doesn’t apply to me right now for reasons I’m not fine with ANet bundling unwanted software with their expansion and refusing to unbundle the result in anyway. And I don’t believe the lie that the core is free in the bundle because :
- I don’t receive the item I purchased
- there is no proof the price is really $0 since you cannot buy the item for that price anywhere

This isn’t a fact of life I expected to happen really so I’m angry.

Since it includes GW2 Core, and for all purposes, since it seems most of the content is in the core part, I’d say at best it’s with $30 considering age probably reduced the value of the core game to $20.

Straylight.7529:

I don’t care if a new player gets a better deal than I do. He’s a new player, let him have the better deal.

Hmm, what about no?

I mean, why not but I’m then perfectly allowed to judge how good of a better deal he can have before I start complaining.

HoT crosses the line by far.

Straylight.7529:

It’s free it they buy HoT. What else do you want? It’s a good deal.
Arenanet doesn’t need go give an option for GW2 core game only if you already get Coregame + HoT for 50$.

No such thing as a free lunch : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_free_lunch

Instead of aping ANet when they “say” the core game is free, you should try reading that wikipedia article and enlighten yourself a little.

Straylight.7529:

No, you’re paying for HoT. The core game is free for new players which shouldn’t concern you.

The core game isn’t free for new players either because new players cannot go, spend $0 and buy it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_free_lunch

Jongi.7612:

Except you are getting what you paid for. Your paying for HoT, so your getting HoT.

Wrong, you are paying for HoT + GW2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain't_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch

Jongi.7612:

Anet made it free with the expansion. Its a buy to play game. If you already have it what is there to complain about?

The fact that ANet can scream all they want the core is free, this is false :
- there is no such thing as a free lunch
- there’s no proof it’s free since it’s impossible to aquire it for that price
- the value people put into their possessions is completely decolerated from their price anyway!

In fact the value doesn’t change much over time and tends to completely ignore price fluctuations. So all that ANet can manage to accomplish by saying the core is free is make some owners feel riped off.

Jongi.7612:

The core game ALWAYS goes down in price no matter the game when an expansion is released. You can get Vanilla through MoP for like 20 bucks now though others spent $250 if the prices were at $50 each. The only difference between here and there is Anet made it free with a purchase of the expansion.

But the core doesn’t get dropped down to $0 in price, and for sure not without some compensation for current owners.

Grimm.2685:

Sadly, Arena Nets generous offer toward new players has mutated into this bile filled cesspool of greed, entitlement and miss understanding. Those that cannot understand that this was an act of generosity and not a slap in the face to all existing players are not worthy of any freebies.

It might not be a slap in the face, but it sure feels like one. And you know the saying about a duck.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Every business I know caters more to the new customer than to the existing one.
Now, if the loyal customer feels slighted, than that has to be rectified. But how does Anet go about that?
A character slot for only veterans? Seems like two wrongs there, and a vicious circle tbh.
Still even with any extras, kids are still screaming price when every video game ever released on ANY system is $60.
So if Anet caters to us ‘veterans’ what about those unhappy about price?

Why two wrongs? GW2 straight up said that the core GW2 is F2P (except you need to buy at least HoT to use it). So we preowners of the core GW2 are entitled a replacement for that now “worthless” item because it’s ANet fault it’s worthless.

Which is very similar to saying : HoT bundle purchase includes either a copy of GW2 or something else (800 gems? a char slot? both?) if you already own one.

I never talked about “consumer law”.

Razor.9872:

You are going to buy tires, sure, but you don’t buy a whole new car — you just buy the tires. The difference is people who have not had the car up until this point are able to purchase the tires w/ the car for roughly the same price.

Buys 4 tires for the price of a whole car. Calls that “fair”. Makes sense.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Could people around here get any saltier?

I take it you weren’t around when ANet decided to add Ascended gear in the game?

papry.8096:

Come on. It’s was obvious that the core game would have an offer with HoT. Anet never say otherwise………..

Yeah and people first had no idea when HoT would be put for sale first, so wanted to play the core GW2 a moment until then. And they were perfectly ok to eat up the small extra cost they’d have to pay for missing the new player bundle. Provided the returning players weren’t going to get an horribly overpriced deal XD

Smallclaw.1650:

Okay let me break it down.
GW2 is included in HoT whether you purchased Basic, Deluxe, or Ultimate. The value of GW2 is not free, no, but it has been included in these three tiers via prepurchasing as a Free Bonus. No one is paying more because it is included; if GW2 wasn’t included, the price of each tier would remain the same. All in all my reply has nothing to do with the value of the original game.

So, you admit that the Core GW2 has value. And then if I buy HoT, ANet is robbing me of the value of one “Core GW2” because for all purposes I should own two of that item, yet I only end up with one, despite paying the exact same amount as a new player.

Pretty simple reasoning in the end.

Smallclaw.1650:

You aren’t paying more because the prepurchase tiers include the core game. The core game is included as a Free Bonus. I repeat: FREE BONUS. As was officially stated above, since many of you either failed to read it or failed to comprehend it.

Whether the tiers include the base game or not will not alter the prices.

The price might be free (which remains to be proven since you cannot buy the core game for $0 anywhere), but the value isn’t.

An account gets by default 2 slots. The core game is pretty bare bone in GW1 though. Adding a campaign to a base account adds 2 slots.

So the first capaign you buy, you have 4 slots. And each campaign after that gets +2.

EOTN was level 20 content too, to make use of it, you weren’t expected at all to start a new char.

borgs.6103:

Will the infusion within the said equipment remain? A lot of these infusion are very very expensive. Also, will trinkets be included too?

If it destroys runes/sigils, don’t hold your breath for infusions.

Isn’t the infusion destroyed when you upgrade an ascended ring for example?

As for trinkets, he said it doesn’t apply.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Ascended Gear will be staying 5% better than Exotic Gear.

But I’m pretty sure Ascended trinkets are 10% better than exotic ones currently. Are they getting “downgraded” to fall in line with the rest then?

kousei.5914:

I still don’t see why people are surprised by this… Anyone that knows GW’s history was not expecting a character slot. EotN, the only true expansion in GW history, did not add a character slot. Even after owning Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, and EotN, you still had to purchase character slots to have one of every class. This entire thing is being blown up due to player entitlement…

Prophecies didn’t include new classes if you bought Factions/Nightfall first (yes it’s possible), yet you’d still get +2 slots when adding a Prophecies game to your account.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Iron Man 2 was bad?
And other than the character slot, what do vets deserve?
If the argument is price or value, we will have this discussion in another month or two.

The core GW2 game has some value. Some pretty high value I’d say even.

Veteran players own that. What they deserve is not a decision that robs them of the value of the core GW2, either through the gimmick that pretends the core has no value at all (it’s free now!) or through the fact we buy a bundle containing the core + HoT but do not receive the first.

As such, people will probably complain a lot until they get offered something in return for that core GW2 item they own. For some, a simple char slot might very well be enough to silence any complains.

Entenkommando.5208:

In my eyes it’s more like this:
You have a garage at a car vendor (char slots). And you were collecting cars for years and years. Now your garage is full, so you either have to find another spot for your next car or throw out one of your older ones.
But someone buying a new garage will have all the space they need for their new car.

Yet you have the advantage of having some awesome old cars in your garage that you love and take care of.
But you won’t say “Hey I bought your cars over the years and stored them in my garage at your place. Can’t you just give me another one for free since I’m running out of space?”

The car analogy hmm?

- There’s no way for the vendor to provide a garage spot that will be usable for you cause of location etc…
- You do NOT have to throw into the trash an extra car to make room, you can resell it

Now now, you are exagerating. Most of the complaints center around three axes :
- we don’t know what is in that expansion to justify the cost. Most of those are solved simply by waiting for more info.
- the base pack will require me to buy a new char slot to use one of the most important feature
- making the core game completely free with no compensation for players that already own it is unfair since it greatly devalues something I own

You’ll notice that ANet doesn’t really need to do much to calm down people since those complaints actually have quite a nice synergy between them.

Entenkommando.5208:

The thing about the character slot is this: I don’t like the decision either, but with the original game you had 5 (or 4?) character slots. So you would have to delete or buy new ones if you want to experience this content as well.
So why should it be a lot different with HoT?

No battery included syndrome. Base game, you buy it, you can instantly create any class/race you want.

Upgrade your full account with HoT? You buy it then you must pay again to use it. This is somewhat despised by customers hence why as far as I remember, every payed (and some free too) expansions that added a new class came with one or more free char slots unless the slots were very generous to begin with.

False advertising doesn’t need a lie. It just needs to be misleading.

Since some people were mislead into buying the core GW2 instead of getting the HoT deal, it is false advertising.

The $75 version (and the $50 for people that already own GW2) are only here to make the $100 version feel like a better deal than it is.

Fair treatment and not having ANet taking my money for granted.

Cormac.3871:

The right of redress I agree with. I have even stated elsewhere that I believe that in some jurisdictions they might be in danger of getting fined.

But again I say consumer rights do not come in to play until you buy the product. i could be wrong, but I don’t believe that there is anywhere that protects consumers for a product that they haven’t bought. Google it and let me know if you find anything.

You might have skimmed on my post the part about “the rights to be informed regarding the price,quality,quantity,etc.,regarding the products” which do come into effect BEFORE you buy the product for a reason.