Guild Wars 2

Yea, I just logged in and tried to use my personal haste and spammed a few autos and HS’s.

I could barely tell the difference between using it and not using it.

That and my endurance is fubar for a lot longer.

I agree haste needed a nerf. Personal haste and Time Warp.

Time Warp was ridiculously overpowered. Personals not so much, but used at the right time, overpowered.

My problem with the haste nerf is that ANet didn’t look at the negative side effects associated with personal hastes.

They nerfed dps 50%.
They buffed duration ~25%
They buffed the negative effect duration and left it same value it was before.

So, our personal haste is 50% less effective but lasts 25% longer. The kicker is that as a warrior I am going to hit for 50% more damage for a full 5 or 6.25 seconds.

Personal haste still has all the risk involved in using it as it had before but is a lot less effective.

Why was this not addressed?

Thief shouldn’t be forced to wait duration to start regen endurance. Warrior shouldn’t take 50% maybe 25% extra damage, etc.

I know rangers are going to have an issue with it too.

I think the negative effects of the quickness should be removed or reduced…

Warriors still take 50% more damage but don’t get the same benefit. Yes, the duration is longer for the quickness but so is the debuff.

Thieves still loose all endurance and won’t start regenerating it until after the quickness wears off which is a much longer duration.

Time Warp is really the only quickness that got a fair nerf in this patch.

Personal quickness got an unfair nerf.

I’m not disagreeing with the nerf, just disagreeing with the way it was done. The individual skills were not looked at it, just quickness as a whole.

I changed my original post. Re-read.

MJGriffin.7091:

The skill now ONLY stun’s people, where as before, is stunned them AND immobilized them. So when they used a stun breaker to counter the stun, they still couldn’t move because it also immobilized them.

Ok, so it isn’t a daze, it still stuns them and they can’t move, but if they stun break, they can move.

This won’t really affect me because I use devourer at the same time as basilisk so they should still get immobilized, but I still don’t understand why this ability got nerfed.

RetroSamus.9860:

Basilisk venom was good with that combination so the stun breakers did not work. Now it is an elite skill that has a non elite counterpart that is better. They really destroyed this skill.

I’m still not sure I fully understand the basilisk skill and the nerf. Someone care to explain?

I usually use basilisk+devourer at the same time anyways.

stof.9341:

Basilisk venom used to stun AND immobilize. Now it only stuns. It does NOT daze the target.

So, they cannot move during a basilisk stun? I read the patch notes as they can move around while turned into stone. I haven’t logged in yet.

Basilik applying an imobolize was a bug, you would stun break the Basilik and then couldn’t dodge (but still move) for another second, its basically a bug fix.

I understand this nerf now, but I still think this ability super sucks for being an elite.

I’d much rather have the 1 extra second of visibility than the revealed on no matter how you come out of stealth.

It hurts in pve, but it is better for wvw/pvp imo.

Thief

Corrosive Traps trait:
Applies the correct vulnerability duration with Shadow Trap.
Now applies vulnerability with Ambush Trap.

Healing Seed skill:
Increased radius slightly.
Now displays the combo field ring.

Caltrops:
Reduced duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds.
Now indicates its radius.

Steal skill: No longer initiates autoattacks.

Uncatchable trait:
Now displays an active combat area to both allies and enemies.
Increased effective radius by 50%.

Basilisk Venom skill: No longer immobilizes targets in addition to stunning them.

Haste skill: Increased duration from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.

Stealth: The duration of Revealed has been increased to 4 seconds when coming out of stealth via an attack.

Thief important only updates here.

Nerf to basilisk, caltrops, haste, and stealth.

I’m surprised to see no Mug nerf.

Adaneshade.2409:

I made a point in every post to point out that stealth is a great tool. Can anyone honestly sit there and tell me that people who only use stealth and have no idea how to use a shadowstep in combat for repositioning are “skilled” though. This is the issue i see with 90% of the thieves I kill while roaming in wvw. They rely too heavily on that one mechanic, rather than a healthy mix of our 4 defensive options (armor, hp, shadowstepping/evasion, stealth).

I guess my overall point is that creating a build that tries to stand on a single leg rather than all 4 is not very indicative of an experienced PvP’er. This applies to every PvP MMO.

I understand what your trying to say here but I don’t understand why you are saying it.

People will play the way want too. I’ve always used my shadowstep and blinding powder or whatever else to distract and move. After fights usually all my CDs are down and sure I use CND a lot too.

Some people use it, some don’t.

Adaneshade.2409:

It’s poorly built. Is it difficult to play other than 1v1? Sure….. However, I’d never let someone running a build like that on my tPvP team, it’s simply a gimmick build that has no real sustainability. Downing someone but being too squishy to actually finish them is of no real use in this PvP meta.

Well, I haven’t really played on a team before. Just in a pug with some people in TS once and I was playing my more balanced thief.

I played some free tourny’s this morning and came in first or second each time. Even the 2 times our random pug team lost. The only 2 times I lost is when we played against a team of 5 all from same guild, presumably in TS/vent. Symh or something…

I still managed to insta gib a ton of thier players and we only lost by 1 cap. Sure, if I am running at a warrior and he sees me and he knows I am insta gib he is going to be prepared for it, but if I use SB or simply wait for someone else to engage him and then insta gib him, chances are he will die from mug+cnd.

Not saying you should have a full team of insta gib thieves, but having 1 roaming and dropping people in the middle of skirmishes can be very useful. It’s easy to finish someone off with haste.

teg.1340:

It’s denoting to thieves to call such a build ‘balanced’.

To all other professions this build is ‘almost glass canon’.

Maybe some day thieves have to equip some toughness, like every other profession in this game. lol

Most thieves are equipping toughness.

The balanced thief usually implies have 30SA or high SA in combination with some armor pieces that include vitality or toughness or both but always some berserker gear. Shadow Arts is also our stealth regen line and toughness trait line.

Glass cannon thieves are 30DA 30CS 10 Trickery, which is what I am currently running in wvw for the moment.

I still think D/P is going to be the best for a shadow arts/balanced thief, but I’ve opted to just insta gib someone every 45s.

Where do the builds that don’t have any defense fall into according to adaneshade schema of noob/non-noob builds for thief?

For instance, jinzu build, is that a noob or non-noob build?

As far as I understood the two abilities specifically state getting nerfs were Mug and Stealth.

Shadow Refuge and Shadow Rejuvenation should not be changed.

If anything they should buff rejuv by 20% to compensate for nerf, imo.

Laika.8795:

swinsk.6410:

I play thief because I like stealth instead of illusions or magic.

Stealth is a form of magic, called Denial.

/lorekitten

Wow, someone got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

ALERT THE POLITICALLY CORRECT POLICE!

KrisHQ.4719:

So many thieves whining about a nerf that is actually not that huge.
You will still be able be almost permanent invisible, so do not worry!
If you’re a good thief you won’t mind and will adapt easily enough. If you are bad you will now die more often, which is the way its supposed to be.
Without being too harsh, thieves now have two options:
1. Actually start learning the mechanics of the class and other classes, and thereby raise your skill lvl.
2. Whine about the nerf and roll another class that you find easier to play.

This is actually a huge nerf. If you were an elementalist, this would be like putting a 3s on your attunements, or putting 3s shared CD on your cantrips so you can’t spam them, putting 3s CD on weapon swap for warrior, etc. 3s may not seem like a lot, but in the heat of battle, 3s is an eternity.

1. You are a kitten kitten to think that this is a small nerf. Thieves will at minimum be spending 20% less time in stealth. Considering most of our traits have stealth as a requirement, this is huge. They are changing the way the class defining skill works. Huge change for the class, small in terms of coding.

2. We are already almost permanent invisible. The change this patch brings is that when a thief is low on hp or wants to make an escape, it becomes much harder because we are visible longer and it’s easier to land an immo or knockdown.

What do you say to elementalists? Seriously, I can get on my ele, run into the middle of like 5 people and drop some crazy dps… If I get cc’d or stun? No problem, I have 3 different stun breaks from utilities alone and a whole slew of defensive skills from D/D.

If there is any class that needs a nerf it’s elementalists and possibly mesmers. IMO, those are the 2 strongest classes in the game at the moment.

I play thief because I like stealth instead of illusions or magic.

EDIT: Don’t tell me I need to learn how to play the thief class. I have 35 ranks in spvp and over 2k solo kills in wvw.

Jinks.2057:

Im sorry but sPvP takes less skill.

While I agree with just about everything else in your posts I don’t really agree with this one.

I define skill as your ability to play your class. It matters how well a person play his or her class.

You can zerg in wvw or in spvp. You also “solo” in both.

I like that everyone is equally geared in spvp. I don’t like fighting some under leveled noob in wvw that dies to just one cnd. I think the differences between an 80 using exotics and non-80 is huge. It requires a lot less skill to kill those players than some random noob who just bought the game 15m ago and tried spvp. At least that guy has decent gear on and he’s a bit tougher to kill.

bomber.1540:

@swinsk dude jinzus build is like 6 months old back before the ball venom nerf, assassins sig nerf and cnd nerf.. All it is now is your standard gc backstab build, which is easily avoided if you don’t use haste.. And the stealth nerf will hardly affect anyone as only trolls chain cnd’d… Why? Cos in 6 to 7 seconds it takes to chain 2 cnds, your opponent will prob of out healed u, got their burst off cooldown etc etc

I know that Jinzu’s build is super old, but it still remains the highest dps build in the game for a thief.

Even with basilisk nerf, people don’t react fast enough.

The classes that can usually survive the burst are mesmers (they break stun and use invuln), guardians if they have enough boons up.

I was playing some free tournys this morning and every single game I bursted a necro or engi or ele right off the bat in the first 10s of the match.

Even if they break the stun, they die to HS before they can heal or get out because of haste.

EDIT: @redscope, I have a level 80 warrior and 42 elementalist which I play in pretty regularly in spvp. Warrior is PVE/sPvP character only. I don’t have a WvW build/suit yet for him. Ele will be wvw when I get to 80.

The P/D thief is not a gung-ho play style.

Try the Jinzu Burst Backstab build if you are looking or gung-ho play style.

P/D thief is a condition build, basically you kill things really slowly, but in exchange you have high survivability. At least you will until the patch hits.

The #3 skill from shortbow does a leap backwards

Redscope.6215:

Firstly, I’d like to address this point:

Regardless of culling issues for thieves showing up when they should, you shouldn’t get a “mulligan stealth” because I dodged your attack and you did no damage. Sorry. My being a good player is no longer going to reward you in the troll department.

Oh and the “L2P” issue? Right here:

Correction, you have to “L2P” now. You have to play in such a way that you’re actually changing your roflstomp strat against a good player. No more trolling. Again, sorry you like the troll class but its going away.

You should probably try playing a non-OP class in PvP and WvW before complaining that you’re awesome and QQing that the game is being changed for “noobs”.

Basically, all you have said is that since I have no stealth I have to “L2P”.

There is a difference between learning how to play the game and already knowning how to play and having to adjust your build and play style due to the changes in a patch.

I just changed up to Jinzu burst build. It’s pretty funny. Sure, I can’t go deep into a zerg or really even near one, but I can kill any class in 1v1 in seconds. Now people can cry about getting insta gibbed.

EDIT: Nerfing stealth like this will change a lot of people’s builds and force them to get new gear and redo a lot of stuff. One small and simple change can cause a huge ripple effect. It’s not learning how to play, it’s adapting to change made so that your character is still viable. Many, like me, feel that our playstyles will be completely obsolete, which is why I changed my play style. I am pure dps now. People are crying even harder now.

It was probably an evade thief.

http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?50000-Evade-Build-test

The #3 skill from shortbow combined with maybe withdraw and felines grace probably gets you a ton of evades.

I have no idea if it was an exploit or not. Simply salvaging an item doesn’t seem like you are hacking the game rofl.

I thought there were ways to get different looking items through tournaments.

If it is, oh well, 40 isn’t too far for me.

I found the P/D playstyle to be very easy use.

This is probably the playstyle that is going to take the biggest hit next patch because I found myself using CND→CND a lot while waiting for CDs/HP and letting bleeds tick.

Here is the counter to any build:

Build post link: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/64152-jinzus-burst-backstab-build/
Video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udk3CEtc7E

Drops bunker any class that isn’t ready for the burst in seconds.

Key thing about this build is that you need to have element of surprise. It works really well in spvp. It’s hilarious in wvw as well when you drop a bunker necro in seconds and he /invites you to tell you that you are terrible for spamming hs.

Lonny.9873:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/55030-pvp-mystic-forge-recipes/

Yea I found that looking myself.

Is the only way to get a tiger token by getting to level 40?

I heard certain things that were salvaged gave tiger tokens but I haven’t gotten any from the priory/vigil hammers. (bug or not IDK)

I’m level 35, almost 36, so 40 isn’t too far away.

Is the only way to get this by getting to level 40 and making it using tiger tokens?

Is there any way to get it through tournaments or something ?

Cost.6917:

Also I had up to 3 thieves in a party including me – no problems ever.

Try making a group with 3 warriors 1 guard 1 mes or 2 mes 2 warr 1 guard and talk to me about your 3 thief group.

The above group setup will eat through bosses with the amazing dps it offers and not to mention amazing survivability.

Your 3 thief group may be able to kill stuff and complete dungeons, but at what cost?

Our point is that every other class can do the same as thief, but better.

Thieves are terrible in PVE. I hate them in FOTM.

1. WvW builds for thief are not the same as PVE. They are completely different.
2. Runes/Sigil choices for PVE differ from what you would want for WvW.
3. Anything sneezes on a thief and hes sitting at 20% HP. 1-2 hits and he’s dead. (kitten happens in pve, you are going to get hit no matter how good you are)
4. Even a well played thief built for pve is not going to offer as much to a group as a well played (insert any other class here).

But yea, let’s nerf thief stealth cause they are OP.

I went insta gib. It’s absolutely hilarious.

Build post link: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/64152-jinzus-burst-backstab-build/
Video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udk3CEtc7E

This guy only shows the backstabs in the video, but it’s basically like that every 30-45s. You usually don’t need haste. I use it mostly to stomp.

Kills most bunkers in seconds.

Only way to live vs. it is hit a stun break with gap opener/damage immunity associated with it. Even at that, you have to be really quick and you’ve already taken a lot of dps. Coming up on people already engaged, it’s pretty much insta gib with no chance of survival.

Basically when your abilities are down you do some crazy DPS using SB from range. Building bloodlust stacks. So you are not completely useless, but after dumping haste you can’t evade and usually out of init so you are left pretty vulnerable and forced to play hyper defensive.

Frellin.6318:

I think I get what you are saying. You want more game types with leader boards. That I can enjoy but I would hate making it what Call of Duty (CoD) has become. I despise all the extra stuff that series has added: Abilities off of kill streaks, helicopters, air strikes, death streaks, etc.

Last time I played was during CoD4 on a server where they took out helicopters and airstrikes. I also played a lot of the deathmatch game mode where you capture point A and B while the other team defends. The right game mode can make a world of difference but all the first person shooters (FPS) these days add too much junk that ruin the game.

I’m not saying we add killstreaks, etc. I am saying they take the game mode diversity and apply to what gw2 already has.

Ironvos.9014:

And maybe thieves should have waited until the update actually happened before whining about hypothetical situations.

I think this video speaks for itself. I’ll let you judge.

The thief conversation starts at 57:30.

EDIT: I heard the mention a lot of problems with thief and things they would like to improve and change. Yet, the only changes they talk about is nerfing the crap out of the class.

I know I posted this in wvw forums, but in spvp thieves will take a huge hit.

Thieves in spvp primarily used stealth, and chaining a cnd here and there to confuse and gain positioning.

The first thing people do when they see a thief in a large battle is cc and dps it. Now being visible a lot more of the time they will certainly just flop and die more of the time.

ANet’s official stance on thieves is that they are supposed to be the “most slippery and elusive” using evades/stealth to do so. Yes, they said stealth.

This nerf only makes the thief LESS slippery, which baffles me even more. Why are they making the thief less slippery but saying they want him to be the most slippery?

ANet really is making no sense to me when it comes to thieves.

I’ve already been playing the ele. They are fairly mobile and it’s easier to deal with multiple enemies than thief already is (without nerf).

Don’t tell me to “adapt”. I’ve already “adapted” to guardians and elementalists on my thief. My answer was chaining a CND here and there to avoid them and regen health.

So now, we have to “adapt” again? Great answer!

I really wish ANet would increase all attunements by 3s, then tell all elementalists to “adapt” to it. yea,lol.

Just quit your thief and make an elementalist already.

Thieves are getting nerfed because of these forums and the people who just complain and refuse to “L2P”.

ANet hates thieves. They rather listen to noobs who don’t understand the mechanics of the game.

So I watched the whole thing and I am amazed that thieves are getting nerfed because “how the forums” have been reacting to thieves. ANet doesn’t want to tell noobs “L2P” all the time but in most cases that is the problem. Which is how I feel the problem with thieves is right now.

ANet has said time and time again, they nerf small amounts at a time in attempt to level the playing field. That sounds great in theory to me. My first thought at balancing a thief would be to remove the culling issues. Step 1, remove culling and observe for a period of time. Then decide if further action needs to be made. Instead, ANet chose a much more drastic nerf.

Not only are they removing culling, but they are removing 20% or more access to stealth. This is a huge nerf to a class with no other form of defense than stealth. Basically like putting a longer cool down attunement swaping, or weapon swapping for warrior, etc.

You have contradicted yourself here with this thief nerf, literally in the same youtube video.

What’s even more bothering is that there was no data, no proof, no tests, nothing that provided some sort of guide line as to what the perceived goal of balance is for thieves and why the current state needed to be toned down.

The only thing that was said about it was, thieves are getting nerfed because people complain about them on the forums.

Elementalists are already impossible to kill on my thief, you have just made it 20% or more harder to kill an elementalist for my thief “balanced” thief now. Most guardians, I cannot stay in a fight with unless from time to time I use a CND->CND to regen HP.

You either need to introduce some large buff to the class to compensate or most people will be rerolling elementalists.

After this nerf there will be a lot of classes that I normally had “stalemates” with, where I would simply die now.

Why should other classes be able to pwn thieves and thieves not be able to kill them back? Oh yeah, I forgot, people complained about thieves on these boards.

I have retired my thief and am rolling and elementalist. Thank you ANet for making me waste so much time with a class I loved and that is now useless to me.

Why do you need stealth to troll people when you can do it completely visible on an elementalist?

Laserbolt.6731:

There is no money for a “complete overhaul”. The PvP team seems to be two people working on it fulltime, with a part-time manager who also does non-PvP tasks. At least that’s who shows up to talk about PvP when there are interviews and “talk shows”.

I was very concerned when I saw the last SOTG also.

My first thought was, the guy who is nerfing thieves has no idea what he is doing and why other than people complained on the forums so it warranted an action.

Just because people complain doesn’t mean it should change.

Karl McClain seemed like a nice guy but also very unsure of himself and most of what he was talking about. I don’t want a guy like that in charge of balance :/

Tyler seemed ok, but looks like johnathan has the ability to communicate better than the rest of them.

I can’t believe game modes/e-sport route is not their #1 priority over wvw or pve in this game.

I would love to have multiple different types of game modes…
CTF, TDM, Hard Point, Domination (which is what we have now), kill confirmed, etc…
To do this, you would also need to implement the CaC (create a class) slots. So that if a game came up and it was CTF, people have the option of picking a more mobile character. If domination came up, more of a bunker build. If TDM came up, maybe a hybrid.
Make multiple different game modes, and then make a game mode that is “Random Game Mode”.

Also implementing leader boards and such should go along with this.
The problem with sPvP is that it’s the same thing over and over again. While the combat engine in this game is fantastic, the game will get stale without something like this for a lot of people imo.
I think sPvP needs a complete over haul and should be more like Call of Duty.
You could also reward people in sPvP by giving them access to more CaC with more glory, etc.
That’s why so many people love sPvP. It’s basically a FPS style MMO, but it seems like ANet dropped the ball and only went half way with it.
Secondary mechanics do not suffice. You still win the match the same way, by accumulating points. CTF, you only win from captures. KC, you only win by picking up dog tags (or in the case something else).

My elementalist is only level 41 and I have been playing around with different elites in spvp and pve. I have found that in both I prefer flamesword over anything else.

The elites for the ele seem to be very lack luster to me. Tornado is pretty much useless, the pet thing doesn’t really seem to help and usually easily killed. Not very good for thieves because they can CnD off it.

So I tried running flamesword in spvp and I loved it. The mobility on it is crazy. Lots of aoe and good damage.

I had some questions tho, when running with the flamesword I noticed sometimes it just drops (doesn’t run out of stacks or time). Usually when I mist form or switch attunements in combat, but not all the time.

What is the in’s and out’s of the flamesword? What skills cause it to disappear? Why don’t I see more ele’s using this?

I usually just attune to water and use flame sword so I regen health while using it. I use the heal that gives regen also, so getting HP while using flamesword usually isn’t too hard and with the 3 cantrips, I don’t get caught very often.

Are there any builds for the flamesword specifically? I’m running 0/10/0/30/30 bunker build.

Thieves are stomping people?!

NERF IT

bhagwad.4281:

Knockback or knockdowns….when I myself am in a downed state as a mesmer? Are you high sir?

Yes, my bad. Let’s just give every class the “insta gib thief” button.

30s CD
Only works on thieves in pbaoe range of 900
Kills all thief instantly and sends them to dead (not downed) state.

That more what you are looking for?

Seriously, stop your crying. Thief has no better chance of getting up from downed as much as a mesmer has… Warrior on the other hand, best downed state #3 ever.

It’s pretty funny. Yes, I have found tornado to be utterly useless for the most part except for this.

1. We removed ability to use any kind of weapon for thief as to alleviate the stress of all the noobs that play our game. Have fun killing anyone who made a thief!

Just wanted to inform everyone including ANet there is a tornado death bug.

I found this out trying to learn how to play ele in spvp last night.

Basically, when you know you are going to die and you can’t do anything to stop it, hit tornado and spam #2. If you die in tornado form and keep spamming #2 you will turn into mist form right away.

After you come out of mist form, you will have rallied without actually rallying.

Pretty funny.

I used it a few times to rush into the middle of their entire time with all my cantrips down and managed to come out alive (after bug).

This be intended, I have no idea. I’ve never really seen many ele use tornado so I wanted to try it out.

Stealth stomp has counters. You gotta use knockbacks or knockdowns…

Just nerf it tho. Might as well just remove the stealth key from the thief so everyone can go around killing them.

Let’s punish any player who decides to play this class because we all hate stealthing.

I’m sorry but thieves should not lose stealth on a block UNLESS thieves are allowed to gain stealth on a blocked hit.

So if I cnd off a guardian who has aegis up and he blocks it, I still get stealth. Warrior uses shield skill, thief still gets stealth.

Why change it? Feels like it’s working fine to me.

I’m leveling a d/d ele as a side project. If my thief is worthless after patch I will play ele.

Ezeriel.9574:

I have no idea what they do, or how they do, and I don’t care. As far as I’m concerned thieves are just completely broken.

People like you are why our class gets nerfed every freaking patch.