Guild Wars 2

Wouldn’t surprise me. But what this does indicate is that literally everything is… on the table… for the Elite Spec utility skills. So, who knows, maybe Warriors get Glamours and Elementalists get Gadgets and…

Azathoth.2098:

Another possibility would be, to heal our Illusions, each time we deal damage, or each time we use a skill.

Signet of the Ether applying its passive heal to Phantasms as well as the Mesmer would make a ton of sense, actually. I mean, it might not be enough to solve the problems with Phantasms, but it’d be something.

Windwalker.7421:

Why not just have it summon a Phantasm, and block ALL attacks while summoning ? (At least that would make those god awful Phantasm summon times useful for once!) Much easier, much more powerful, much more like a shield is expected to work!

TBH, I think the “Deja Vu” mechanic is actually kind of cool… But, nonetheless, I think your suggestion would make for a much more usable skill.

Sebrent.3625:

@frifoxy:
Does that mean we’re going to see Guardian dps nerfed? :-p

What about Elementalist?
Phalanx Warrior?

Guess this goes to that debatable part … which I honestly don’t think is that debateable … I assume you’re hinting at the same.

Well, for Guardians in particular, I think the DPS measurements are pretty close? Going off this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bAcpwAdwB24CxK_Ziy8ygISUHCkQepLfRMh2_PtP52o/edit#gid=1883199869

It does seem obvious that Ele and Phalanx Warriors are both annoying outliers in terms of putting out big damage numbers at the same time as they provide a lot of group support effects, though.

frifoxy.6014:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Btw frifox, Confusion will tick for its duration along with on skill procs. That’s a buff

Yeah, I saws that in the PoI. It was quite weak but still, additional rarely capped by party dmg source is always nice to have.

It really makes me wonder how a Reflect/Confusion build using Rampager or Sinister stats could perform when the spec changes hit live. X/Duel/Ill with Mistrust. I think you could go finish this off with either Blinding Befuddlement + Blinding Dissipation or MoF + Evasive Mirror, depending on whether you want to focus more on conditions or reflects (I can see changing this up for different content). For the third line, I’m split on whether Domination or Chaos feels better. My first instinct is Chaos so you can take Chaotic Dampening and Bountiful Disillusionment, but Domination could be better for the all the Vulnerability generation (unless you’re on a team that provides this for you).

Sebrent.3625:

I think the take-away is that even fully-specc’d into phantasms … which is the only way a Mesmer is getting the multiple cumulative damage modifiers like other classes can get … it is only matching the damage of those other classes when it has 3 phantasms up.

Yeah, and that’s a very fair point. The idea that Mesmers rely on Phantasms for DPS is inherently flawed, and that’s not new knowledge to anybody (I hope).

This is compounded by the fact that current PvE content sits in an uncomfortable trough where fights last too long for shatter burst damage to be relevant but not long enough for our backloaded DPS to flatten out.

The flip side of the same problem is that we also need Phantasms to provide support and utility, which further cuts us off from using our Shatters. If you shatter your iWarden, he’s not reflecting projectiles, right?

But, you know, what do you do about that? Buff damage on all non-Illusion weapon skills? Great, now all the PvP builds that didn’t give a fig about Phantasm uptime in the first place end up OP.

What we know of HoT so far suggests that ANet’s approach appears to involve both patching up the “Phantasm builds can’t Shatter” problem via Chronophantasm and allowing us to make up for our weak individual DPS by contributing to group DPS via Alacrity and Quickness. Which leaves non-Chronomancer Mesmers still in the same awkward spot for PvE, but it’s better than nothing?

The tooltip suggests that the Phantasm will be summoned against the attacker who procs the block. If the block times out before proccing, then it will be summoned against your current target.

There should probably be a chain skill available while channeling the block that cancels the block and summons the Phantasm against your current target instead. Kind of like how Scepter 2/Sword 4 can be canceled. Otherwise, Shield Chronos will take way too long to summon Phantasms without diving in front of attacks.

Interesting numbers, but the build under test is optimised for Phantasm damage. Not that we have such a plethora of strong direct-damage traits, but even still I think a more illuminating comparison would be to theorycraft a Mesmer Direct Damage build and compare that to the hypothetical 3xPhantasm build.

But anyway, like Miku implies, it’s really not teaching us anything we didn’t know already.

Exciton.8942:

As an SoSian, will surely enjoy to fight you on the battle ground

Ditto, except I think it’ll be less “fight you” and more “get steamrolled by you”, in my case.

Ross Biddle.2367:

First pro tip: Level your mesmer with PvP tomes, or in an EOTM kTrain.

Right, so you can get dumped into level 80 content with no traits and no idea how to play your class.

Kelthien.8593:

Greatsword and Sword are both wonderful weapons. Staff is lovely as well, though it can be a bit lower in damage and higher in defense.

I feel like a double-ranged build with GS/Staff is really effective for leveling. GS kills “trash” mobs really quickly, and Staff gives you the tools you need to survive difficult pulls.

Ithurien.3652:

For PVE phantasm builds, it will be tough to pass on the Illusions line, as it has both Illusionary Celerity and Phantasmal Haste. However, the GM traits are useless for phantasms, so your choice of the Inspiration line instead looks pretty reasonable. It’s a shame that Duelling I and III are mutually exclusive.

It is something of a concern that phantasm builds do seem to require taking poor or useless traits no matter which line you pick at the moment. Still, it’s early days yet, and hopefully traits will still be shuffled around by the devs to make some more viable builds available.

I think that PvE Phantasm builds are going to end up going Chrono/Ill/Insp, just based on the Chrono GM trait that respawns a Phantasm the first time it’s killed or shattered. Combined with Persistence of Memory, it seems like they can have their cake and eat it too, as far as using Shatters (buffed by MoF?) without sacrificing very much Phantasm uptime.

EDIT: To answer the topic more directly, I think the new build closest to my current one would be this: http://dulfy.net/2015/05/02/gw2-specialization-calculator-that_shaman/#profession=mesmer&traits=“Domination”,3,4,7-“Dueling”,1,4,9-“Chaos”,3,6,9

But my build on Live is hamstrung by lack of trait unlocks, so it’s actually something weird like 6/4/2/2/0. And it also uses Empowered Mantras, which I can’t get while still having Deceptive Evasion now. Which doesn’t bother me that much, since I only use EM because it’s literally the only GM trait I have unlocked. Even if I were a Necromancer main, I’d still be begging for the Spec system to hit live, just so I wouldn’t have to bother with the stupid unlock nonsense anymore.

keenlam.4753:

So yeah, first pulse always happens when you cast the well.
To summarize, for mesmer wells, I’m almost 100% sure its gonna be like this:
1. you lay the well down, first weak pulse
2. second weak pulse (1° sec)
3. third weak pulse (2° sec)
4. big finale (3° sec) as well expires.

Bingo. Except I think calling the pulses “weak” is misleading, mainly because the well pulses and the expiration effects are usually totally different.

The healing well, for instance, doesn’t go:

Heal – Heal – Heal – Big Heal.

It goes:

Vigor – Vigor – Vigor – Heal.

(With an additional self-heal on cast.)

ITT: People who don’t know what “opportunity cost” is.

So, we have a Dark field now, eh?

Dondagora.9645:

Now, MH Pistol isn’t that important. More importantly is what Mesmer’s next Elite Spec will be, and will a pistol fit in there. Work on ideas, people, for the specialization with a pistol instead of just a pistol.

I like your style.

Maybe let’s sit the Mesmer dev in front of a bunch of John Woo movies until he finally gets inspired to make Tequila the next Mesmer elite specialisation.

StormHawk.9862:

Milamberr.1705:

Shattering is not just about damage and I think with having IP base line now a lot more people will start to realize that.

Yeah I know, it’s also about evading and interrupting as well, but that doesn’t really change the fact that if you’re not a shatter build and you shatter, it won’t be as effective, right?

That has traditionally been the case, but I think the idea behind some of the recent changes (especially the one that reduces Phantasm cooldowns when you shatter them) is to ensure that build which rely on Phantasms for DPS, finishers, and reflects will be able to maintain good Phantasm uptime even if we choose to use shatters.

I did notice that both TTH and the official blog post only mention one Shield skill, Tides of Time. The video shows exactly three skill uses: Mirror Images, Tides of Time, Mind Wrack(?). We also have pictures of the Well skills, captioned with their names.

There’s also picture captioned “Echo of Memory”, but no description of what it does. There’s a possibility that this is the other Shield skill, but no indication of what it does (other than putting a pretty pink bubble around you).

It could very well be a Phantasm summoning skill, and the picture shows the summoning channel? Absorb projectiles while summoning your phantasm! Cooldown reduced based on the number of projectiles absorbed!

I dunno, we’ll probably have to wait for Ready Up! to figure out what’s going on with the Shield and Phantasms.

Bellyboomer.3048:

A thought came to mind: we won’t get a phantasm on our shield, but perhaps specializing in chronomancer will unlock a new utility phantasm, like phantasmal defender. That way chronomancers will get to chose if they want phantasms or something else. It’s a possibility.

All of the utility skills are Wells. It’s possible that one of them spawns a Phantasm when it expires, I guess.

Official blogpost is up: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/meet-the-chronomancer-mesmers-elite-specialization/

I don’t see anything new over the Ten Ton Hammer article, though.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

TooBz.3065:

Are we sure it’s an F5. What if the new shatter replaces F1?

This is also possible but I would think it’s more likely to replace F4. Both defensive and should have long cooldowns.

The linked article explicitly says that Continuum Split is on the F5 key. They wouldn’t include that detail if it wasn’t in their press kit.

peterpat.8196:

But… But… Wouldnt you go back to before the jump, even if you succeeded?

Yeah. The Portal interaction will be a key part of this. Can you hit F5, jump, use Portal Entre, F5 again, then use Portal Exeunt? If not, you could probably still use Portal Entre, hit F5, jump, use Portal Exeunt, then F5 again.

The new Shatter will only reset the Chronomancer, as far as I can tell. Any Wells, Glamours, etc. you placed while in Continuum Split should still be present.

ronpierce.2760:

tobascodagama.2961:

Are the Well skills actually tagged as wells, or are they actually Glamours that the video was calling wells?

Wells. They said all of the new skills are going to use pre-existing ability types (useful for speculation) so that they can create more synergy with runes in the future.

I ask because the Mesmer class has zero interactions with Well skills as it is. So it seems really weird to introduce an Elite Spec that has no synergy whatsoever with the existing Core Specs.

Are the Well skills actually tagged as wells, or are they actually Glamours that are called Wells?

I guess we need to wait for the blog post to find out.

So, Devil’s Advocate on why Chaos Armour and Retaliation are not the same thing, from a design perspective:

Retaliation is purely an offensive boon. It offers no protection to the Mesmer, it just punishes attackers. Because it’s an offensive boon and because its effect scales on the Mesmer’s Power, the “optimal” (read: highest DPS) way to use Retaliation is to wear glass cannon gear while jumping in front of enemy attacks. This is a pretty obvious contradiction just in itself.

Chaos Armour is a defensive/utility boon. The only way it applies damage is if your opponent procs the Confusion debuff. Otherwise, it either reduces the damage you take (Protection, Blind), enables you to escape from your opponent (Swiftness, Cripple), or heals you (Regen).

So, the reason why ANet want to prune back our sources of Retaliation is that it doesn’t make sense for a squishy class to be glass cannons who dive in front of bullets. Chaos Armour doesn’t encourage us to dive in front of bullets, it just helps us survive longer when dodging isn’t an option.

Carighan.6758:

Mikkel.8427:

I don’t see any reason why they could not program the reflect to proc after the invis effect is intended to wear off… the same way the blast finisher is programmed for the prestige.

That’s a very interesting point, that is the reason why Prestige works that way, right? To not artificially unstealth us? Never thought about it.

Yeah. Good catch, OP.

There are definitely ways that this conflict can be mitigated, but we’ll have to be vigilant about testing the interaction of Mass Invis with the Manipulation Reflect trait once some of us get access to a beta build with the new trait and skill stuff.

I feel weird about Phantasmal Fury in this build, but I guess it’s the best choice, given that you aren’t using a Pistol and Desperate Decoy is kind of trash.

Actually, you can summon a GS clone and still get the cooldown reduction after switching to another weapon set. Which is not hugely useful, but it’s something.

skcamow.3527:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

My only question.. Will the new Inspiration GM (cast signet of inspiration on phant summon) activate the signet trait. O.o

Distortion/cleans on phant summon ftw … Every 36 seconds.

Yes, they specifically stated that on stream.

Oh, my.

Raccoon.6907:

I like the idea of this build but I feel there are issues here that you’re not really adressing:
- Furious Interruption and Power Block are good traits but they still rely on interruption. The way dungeons and fractals we just can’t get enough interruptions off to be able to make these traits worthwhile. This also kind of ruins the idea of sharing quickness because the uptime just won’t be worth it in optimal team builds. Now for the new HoT content this may work, but we can’t judge that yet.

I think your general criticism here is correct, however it’s important not to forget about the Defiance reworks. Dazes will be one of the fastest ways to burn through a Defiance bar, and we have a lot of them. So we probably won’t see PvE “interrupt” builds, but there may still be a PvE niche for a Due/Cha/Ins build Daze/Boonshare build that takes Bountiful Disillusionment.

Rather than passing around Quickness (since you don’t have a reliable source of it), you’d be handing out Fury and Stability from Diversion shatters (as well as Mantra Strength stacks? or is that not a shareable boon?). And you’d want to be using Diversion shatter to melt through Defiance bars anyway, since Daze is weighted pretty heavily.

The Defiance melting and Fury sharing would happen on top of the reflects that Mesmers are already doing in our current Dungeon builds, too. (And, again, we’re actually getting even better access to reflects than we ever had before.)

Neijala Ceya.1785:

My concern is mostly for PvE and not PvP. So I guess we misunderstood each other.
And an interrupt build won’t work very well in PvE.

Actually, our interrupt skills will carry a lot of weight when breaking through Defiance. So I wouldn’t be so sure that an interrupt has no place there.

But the main reason I brought up a PvP-style build is that the main argument against HM as a GM trait is that it’s competing with Deceptive Evasion. DE isn’t considered core in PvE builds, so there’s not really a strong argument against taking HM in a non-interrupt PvE build.

So, if we’re talking about PvE, picture a Phantasm/Reflect support build that goes Due/Ins/X to combo Warden’s Feedback with Evasive Mirror. You’re going to be using Mantras for condi cleanse, stability, and heals anyway. Why not get more mantra uses and a damage buff to it? Dungeon reflect builds already went for Assassin stats, and that synergises with the buff HM gives you on Mantra use. And, again, it’s not like you’re going to use DE for PvE content.

Bran.7425:

Must be the closest one to finished. I kind of feel bad if that is the case as the first finished is almost as bad as a the one rushed to meet deadline.

Actually, to the extent that it means anything, what it means is that we have more time than everybody else to give feedback. Obviously, we can’t change anything like “drop the shield and give us a main-hand pistol”, but we might be able to change things along the lines of “Shield 4 isn’t that exciting, maybe it should put down a pulsing AoE Daze field instead” or whatever. (Well, ok, a pulsing AoE Daze field seems pretty unlikely, but you know what I mean. We can probably get some tweaks in to skills and traits to make them feel better. Like changing the trim of the sails, even if we can’t steer to a different course.)

It’s basically just two or three people doing most of the complaining on here. Everybody else seems neutral-to-positive.

I was a little mystified about the fall damage trait and Medic’s Feedback both surviving the spec revamp, too. I know people used Descent into Madness for off-beat exploration builds, but is there really any room for that in our spec lines any more?

I’d be totally in favour of keeping DiM around if it could proc on knockdowns and launches, though. The conceptual overlap with Mirror of Anguish doesn’t bother me at all. Actually, one way to make both of those traits more palatable would be to merge them together and add a new Master trait to Chaos.

skcamow.3527:

Xaylin.1860:

I’d take it but I wouldn’t hold my breath. It is more likely that Chronomancers will get the CC and offensive area effects.

Yeah something like what dazzling was may end up in the new specialization trait line.

I’ll eat my imaginary butterflies if the Chrono line doesn’t have some kind of interaction with Glamours.

Uh-oh, looks like the whole board got hit with 25 stacks of Confusion. :o

5% is apparently a placeholder number, so don’t fixate on that too much. But I do think you understand the new trait correctly otherwise.

Yeah, I’d honestly be really surprised if Chrono is a trap spec. We have no traps anywhere else in the class, so they’d basically be adding a new specialisation that has zero synergy with anything else about Mesmer.

Trap spec as a Thief thing makes more sense, since they already have some Trap utilities that the new spec could tie into.

Neijala Ceya.1785:

I talk about the new HM trait as they want it to be. Mantra Damage was used in PvE to max damage. Though they have changed how the dmg works it would still be used this way in PvE (by spamming mantras).

Oh, that’s quite a big difference from Empowered Mantras actually, and it’s something I totally missed before.

The rest of your post is kind of dismissing the idea of a Mantra build, but TBH a Mantra build that gives you Ferocity for using mantras sounds pretty sweet. Especially considering that Mantra of Distraction is a key utility for interrupt builds. And the other Mantras are handy for condition cleanse and stability, too.

I mean, a Condirupt build is going to prefer Mistrust, but what about a Power-based interrupt build? I’m thinking you put the new HM in a Dom/Due/Cha build with Power Block and Chaotic Interruption. One well-timed use of Power Lock will set up a really nasty follow-up burst.

Also consider the new HM as a way to add damage to a support build that was already using Mantra heal for Mender’s Purity and running the condi cleanse and Stability mantras in the utility slots.

I dunno, it sounds pretty good to me.

Good suggestion, Mordy. Having a Weapon Training skill as a GM feels kind of weird, even if it were a great weapon training skill (which GS Training actually could be, if the “2%” is a placeholder for a bigger number). I also like your suggestions for putting a Phantasm trait into the Domination GM slot.

Wait a minute.

rechecks OP’s name

It’s a trap! Mordy’s trying to nerf us so we can’t beat the HoT content!

Quadox.7834:

The problem is that our best boon traits; CI, Bountiful and PU are in the same spot. -.-

Intentional, obviously.

Quadox.7834:

MAYBE boonshare is decent, the other 2 traits are worthless.

Boonshare on Phantasm summon is “maybe” decent? O.o

I dunno, Insp honestly seems like a good line for Dungeons and Fractals now. I mean, going into Insp for Warden reflects was something Mesmers already did for that sometimes, so getting boonshare on top of that certainly doesn’t make the line worse.

I like most of your ideas, ASP. I think you’ve spelled out the problems with DE in its current spot pretty well.

I mean, yeah, the Phantasm vs. Literally Every Other Build issue means both that DE can never be a baseline trait and that it will always dominate whatever tier it’s in.

Part of me wonders whether putting DE where it is could be an attempt to encourage us to experiment with Phantasm builds outside of just Dungeons/Fractals. Chronomancer could be the missing piece of the puzzle here that makes Phantasms viable in PvP or WvW. Inspiration already has some good support stuff going on with Phantasms, maybe Chronomancer pushes that further while also having a strong synergy with Harmonious Mantras or Mistrust? A longshot, I know, but within the realm of possibility.

EDIT: Actually, the more I think about this, the more it seems like Harmonious Mantras is actually the odd trait out here. Maybe it should replace one of the way-off-meta traits like Medic’s Feedback (with some shuffling to prevent HM from competing with Mender’s Purity, since they have such great synergy), and then the third Dueling GM could be something that boosts Phantasm build damage.

EDIT2: On top of the above, we shouldn’t forget about Stronghold. Maybe Phantasm builds without DE could have a niche there as a solo gate defender?

Sebrent.3625:

@tobascodagama:
Take a look again at the math, friend :-)

What you’re missing is that

Dom Duel Insp
Duel Insp Dom
Insp Dom Duel
Duel Dom Insp
Insp Duel Dom

are all the exact same thing. So, 3^9 is completely incorrect. The actual calculation is (3^3) * (6 choose 3).

Sorel.4870:

I see! Would someone mind telling me exactly what’s in this MoF trait? I can only read the Mind Wrack page.

I think it’s literally all of the existing Shatter traits rolled into one. (Except Precise Wrack.)

Levetty.1279:

Apparently Signet of illusions now gives permanent swiftness? If so about kittening time. How does it work? Is it in addition to the current passive?

Signet of Inspiration. And, yeah, apparently now it grants Swiftness plus some other boon on every tick.

Fay.2735:

Keep in mind that they only showed traits and we had some hints at other stuff happening so the traits alone might not be the complete picture I’m really eager to see the whole picture to see what is what and what is really OP or what is really nerfed..

Yeah, it does seem like there are a bunch of changes to conditions. Stacking past 25, Confusion working like Torment, etc. Seems like at least a few skills are changing, too (one of the Trident skills apparently getting Chaos Armour). Hard to say just how widespread the non-trait changes will really be.

Xaylin.1860:

Second, which annoys the hell out of me: Why are Blade Training and Evasive Mirror in the same tier although Sword MH is the only weapon which could synergize with that trait? Blade Training could be Adept instead of Duelists Discipline. Or Evasive Mirror could replace Sharper Images which could be moved to the Adept Major slot while Duelists Discipline goes back up to the Master level. I don’t really care which way it is done. But Evasive Mirror and Blade Training really shoudn’t be in the same slot.

Evasive Mirror just seems really weird in general. Like, you have to Evade an attack and then get attacked by a projectile within 2 seconds. So, yeah, an MH sword build seems like the most obvious synergy with it, but it also seems like kind of a garbage trait anyway, soooo…

Vague Memory.2817:

The greatsword skill reductions at 2% on spatial surge hit means you have to hit 10 times to get to the present value of 20%, this seems quite low considering we don’t know how this will stack, for how long, and if a ICD is involved.

You or your clones need to hit 10 times, so it’s not as bad as it sounds.

That’s not really accurate, Sebrent. We’re actually choosing 3 of 6 Specialisations and then choosing 1 of 3 traits within each tier of each spec.

Within each Spec, we have 27 potential combinations. We have 20 different ways to choose 3 out of 6 Specs. That combines to make 540 potential builds.

Which is still, you know, a lot. And it’ll probably still take a fair amount of experimentation to boil that down into the ~3 or so “meta” builds that everyone will use.

For all we know, Chronomancer unlocks OH Shield + 3 Utility skills where the Necro spec gets GS + 0 Utility skills. That wouldn’t necessarily be a “just as good” scenario, since we have a ton of really good Utilities already.

Or, it could be that the Necro spec actually replaces the Death Shroud state with a different form transformation that doesn’t have a separate skillbar. In which case they’d be net-neutral on “weapon” skills despite gaining a two-hander.

Well, the Q&A session today should illuminate a lot of these things.

Polymorph Butterfly