Guild Wars 2

Silv.9207:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

Fashion Mage.3712:

Ezrael.6859:

Stop running in and out of the Purging Flames, you did this to yourself with a lack of awareness.

That’s not how Purging Flames works.
You cast it once, and upon casting, it inflicts burning in the area and cleanses conditions. After that it just decreases condition duration.

Actually you are the one who is incorrect, Purging flames does all that but it also summons a ring of fire. Crossing the ring gives 3 stacks of burning just like the ele skill.

That’s correct and incorrect at the same time:
Purging flames inflict 3 stack of burn when casted on the enemy and when the enemy cross it. BUT if the enemy is affected by it one time it will no more be affected by it.
You cast PF on a enemy and he can move in, out and cross the firefield like he want why he already received the 3 stack of burn. The same if it’s aleady there and he cross it.

PF actually can’t inflict more than 3 stack of burn.
It can be a unfixed bug or there can be a really high internal cooldown that we don’t know.

If that’s how you think Purging Flames works then you ought to blame no one for dying to burn guard.. You’re not understanding teh mechanic of the skill that you’re complaining about. Purging flames applies 3 stacks of burning on inital cast and then it applies 3 stacks of burning to the enemy that crosses it without cooldown or limit. So if you’re getting more than 6 stacks of burning on you out of purging flames, literally and unequivocally it’s your own fault for walking in and out of it multiple times.

Advice to counter purging flames:
- Don’t cross out of the ring if you’re inside of it. It’s safe to stay inside as it does NOT pulse burning over time. It only applies burning on the initial application and when you cross the ring

- Don’t cross into the ring if you’re outside of it. If you must cross it to finish an enemy, make sure you have a condi clear ready or ressistance or condi immunity or crossing it with the intention of sending the burns back to the guard or someone else.

- If you MUST cross the ring (inwards or outwards), DODGE through the ring. Dodging through the ring does NOT apply burning to you.

Seriously purging flames has the easiest telegraph and the most noticable ring. If you see it don’t cross it. It makes it so the guardian burning is basically based on how incomptenet his opponent is. If you understand the skill and can work your way around it, it could do 0 damage to you. If not , it has the potential to stack 40 stacks of burning if you keep crossing it over and over and over. The guardian doesn’t have much CC to force into you or out of it. Burn guards don’t spec even for the little CC they my have. Basically making you in control of when to cross the ring and not in the control of the guardian.

summery:
If you don’t understand how a skill work, look it up , read about it, ask about it, take it to pvp witha friend and test it. Most of the time it’s not enough to understand your own class but also to know thy enemy.

Hope this helps anyone having problems with Purging flames on Guardian or Ring of Fire on ele.

RevanCorana.8942:

It uses sword for the teleport and burst/block projectile, then shield that synergise with hammer and sword more than focus.

Could you please elaborate on why you think the shield synergise better than focus with hammer and sword?

I’ve been fiddling around with a build these days but i haven’t fully decided on some things it it. It uses hammer so i figured why not share it here

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNArdSlsAhyhY1QwZIQQEHzD1tAahao+AXZAk/iU8FB-TZRGwAAeAAHOCAg2fwwpAYZZAA

I’ts follows similar princibles as the cele ele builds. By focusing on might stacking and sustain. You stack might thgouth the scepter attacks from a s distance then when you’re ready to engage, you place the Purging flames on the enemy, follow it with a Smite from scepter and may Chains of Light, you get in the purging flames and use Shield of Wrath for the blast, swap to hammer and use Mighty Blow for another blast , pop your Elite feel my wrath for quickness and keep cleaving with auto hammer until mighty blow is ready again and use it. When weapon swap is ready , disengage and use scepter again and rinse and repeat. Your meditations are mainly for personal sustain and possibly for extra fury if you need it.

Give it a shot and let me know how it feels. It’s not optimal but it’s a different way of playing guard.

Best of luck

Making unblockabke is not viable. It has the same damage as a hammer mighty blow , from range, and pierces. Anything beyond that makes it overpowered. The rooting might be debated, but I’m not in favour of making it unblocksble.

A couple of quotes :

“This isn’t about “you.”
Insults and attacks have no place in your feedback. Your comments should always be about the work itself. People found to be openly antagonistic or rude in their feedback may receive infractions. Repeated offenses can negatively affect your forum account with punishments up to and including temporary suspensions or a permanent ban.
NO: “If you can’t see how this isn’t fun, then you’re stupid.”
NO: “Whoever designed this [particular feature] should be fired.” "

Sarcasm in text is never sarcastic.
It doesn’t matter how many smileys you include or how many words are italicized, sarcasm doesn’t work for conveying feedback. It will either be misread or interpreted as an insult. Write down exactly what you mean, not the opposite.
NO: “The fire effect is super impressive. It’s the most amazing fire I’ve ever seen. Really.”
YES: “The fire effect could be more impressive if it was larger and if it shimmered more.”

Hyperbole is the worst possible thing in the whole world.
Use measured language, particularly when explaining your dislike for something. Conversely, if you love something, you can say so without excessive fanboyism. Whether positive or negative, if your feedback is overly hyperbolic, the recipient will quickly learn that you aren’t serious or can’t accurately gauge quality.
NO: “The art for that makes me want to gouge out my eyes.”
NO: “I’m so amazed by that model, I just want to quit my job and worship in the art department.”

No one knows best.
Avoid taking an inflexible position or positioning yourself as the authority. Proposals should be accepted on their merits and practicality. Disagreements should be settled after careful consideration. Using forceful, pretentious language hurts your point. If your argument is “You need to do it my way because I know best,” then we probably won’t because it seems you don’t.
NO: “I’ve played games like this since I was ten. Trust me: you have to include polearms.”
YES: “In games I’ve played with polearms, I’ve enjoyed the variety they provided in attack speed and length. I think we could use that.”

" Turn down the negative tone.
There’s a difference between being critical and being negative. Learn this difference and avoid the latter. Select words that show you’ve thought about the effects of the problem rather than simply presenting your gut reaction.
NO: “I can’t see around that ridiculous ball of puke-colored light.”
YES: “The light around this character obstructs the view from most camera angles and is an unpleasant shade of yellow.”

source https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback/first#post3383470

Reading through the guardian forums i can’t help but see 95% rants, yelling, screaming, stating that everything just “sucks” .. and 5% constructive… Now if i was having a conversation with you and the content of that conversation was 95% rants yelling screaming at me telling me i suck and that i should be fired, guess what, i wouldn’t be listening to those 5%.

To be respected you gotta show respect. To be heard, you gotta speak TO the person not AT them. I am a guardian .. and i ‘m frustrated by some things in the class and wish they’d be fixed. But i’m also a developer (not in anet) and i understand that cycle of feedback. What the guardian forum is filled with is NOT feedback. It’s yelling, screaming, ranting, saying that this thing or that thing “sucks”. Not providing non-emotional feedback. Go through the forums and you’ll see.. almost every single thread is cancerous and toxic.

People find it very easy to yell " this sucks, you suck, whoever came up with this should get fired, this is worthless, no point in this , why would you do it like this you morn, you should stop being stupid and do it my way… etc" .. i think you get my point ..

If you don’t like the direction of the class, if you’ve been frustrated and did all your “ranting” and childsh screaming o nthe forums and feel ignored (as any annoying little child screaming, yelling, and kicking would be ignored) then i invite to go to these classes that you deem are getting better feedback recognition (in your eyes) .. there are 8 other classes. You’re not stuck with the “broken” class or the “ignorant” devs of a class as you like to call them (an opinion i disagree with) .. Heck if you don’t like the approch of any class, by all means go play another mmo.. You’ve “tried” to give your feedback .. you’re not heard .. leave this “kittenty” game and go somewhere else. I don’t know what to tell ya. If it tastes bad, stop drinking it :/

The fact the players are STILL giving feedback (or at least what they think is feedback) even after the 3 years period within the so called “feedback-ignorant enviroment” that you you’re saying the devs created .. this tells me anet is doing something right .. if it was a lost cause, a hopeless manner, wouldn’t the forums be dead silent ? ..

again i say it .. if you don’t like the taste, go have another flavor (another class or another game entirely) .. you’re in control of that. Stop ranting like a child who sounds like he has absolutly no power of what’s happening to him :/ (not talking about you personally. talking about the general ranter here)

apologies for the rant .. but these kind of threads seriously get on my nerves after watching cancerous posts people are making. No wonder we’re not being taken seriously .. 95% of us are acting very childsh and immature .. there comes a piont where the devs would say “f it” ..

Your feedback is NOT GUARANTEED to be implemented. No where on earth did it ever say they will give you what you’re asking for to the dot. The feedback is taken UNDER CONSIDERATION. Nothing more, nothing less. If it follows the direction THEY’re of the systems THEY’re developing, then they MIGHT make an executive decision to spend CAPITAL to implemnt the changes. If YOUR feedback does not following the direction THEY envision for THEIR OWN product, they simply won’t implement it. I’ts product. If you don’t like it, don’t use it. Go right a review discourgaing people from using it.. From your prespective : If you’ve given a well constructed feedback and didn’t get listened to for 3 years, you think ranting like that would make a differerence ?? it’s like a kid that tried to weezle his way with his parents to make logic as to why what he wants makes sense (even when it doesn’t) and when it failed, he starts banging his head against the wall and knocking things around the house because in his eyes that will make him heard .. i’m sorry to say that’s childish behaviour and will not be taken seriously. You’ll only generate salt,more salt , and infinite salt in a lot of words that goes for ages but nothing will change by this kind of bahaviour.

wrote too much .. too lazy to spell check.. I’m gonna eat something,. Laters

ummm .. be helpful and constructive or go home .. A thread like this does absolutly NOTHING to help improve the matters. It’s antagonizing, it’s disrespectful, and it’s non-constructive. If you hate guardian so much , there are 8 other classes to play. Be useful or be silent.

ps : Please read this before making such threads: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback/first#post3383470

Edit: What you have here is a rant not feedback. Example of decent feedback: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Dragonhunter-Review-Revisions-Long/first#post5396026 .. the devs specified how feedback should be given and when feedback should be given. If you don’t follow the guidelines, it’s kinda like screaming at a deaf person and being frustrated that they’re not listening wjen they’ve already told you to use sign language.

style.6173:

x indigo x.6981:

The skill is not overpowered.

^^ The type of person will will be very upset once ele is nerfed to be more inline with the other characters.

I don’t even play ele .. i play guard ..

Reading the other comments , maybe the cooldown on it is too low. 10s is definitly spammaple material for an aoe application fire field with that much power.

It’s not my place to make recommendations here as to how balance eles as i don’t play ele but i understand teh mechanic of that specific skill because it’s exactly like the guardian purging flames. Balance the cooldown,.. don’t nerf the already OBVIOUS mechnic to avoid. For real though .. IT DOES NOT PULSE BURNING !

Aktium.9506:

Nah, just bad hitboxes. Reminder that player characters have the same hitboxes as max size malecharr and malenorn even when they’re much smaller on top of RoF’s own hitbox being bigger than the actual animation.

^

That is intended behavior . basically you’re punished for attemtpting to cross the ring. If you strafe on the the edge back and forth, it’s like crossing it multiple times. Each time puts 3 stacks of burning.

To counter that:
- Don’t cross into the ring if you’re outside of it
- Don’t cross out of the ring if you inside of it ( it does NOT pulse burning if you stay inside)
- If you must cross the ring, you can dodge through it. When you dodge through the ring, you don’t get any stacks of burning.

I hope this helps. The skill is not overpowered. It’s the same functionality as Purging flames on guardian. Althought it might seem op to the untrained eyes that didn’t know its mechanics cause they would be kited in and out of the ring and they would pretty much kill themselves by overstacking burning on themselves. Believe me i’ve had fun kiting a rampage warrior around my purging flames to the point where he just killed himself with the burning stacks HE put on himself by crossing the ring so many times.

power builds that use Generosity/purity generaly use them for the condi clear and not really for the damage of the transfer. It follows the right theme .. I think if power buidls got to benefit form the enemies condi damage that would make their burst that much more burstier.

For reference : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Incapacitation

“For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first.”

Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition

and just FYI :

“For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first.”

source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition

nothing humors me more than a player that runs in and out of my purging flames 10 5+ times in a row .. basically stacking 15+ stacks of burning on himself … then yelling at me in chat that burn guardian is for losers .. l2p ?

I say Burn is at a good spot (maybe needs a little nerf for the kittens) but, as other wise men have already stated, burn itself is not the issue. It’s the classes access to it.

People are just not allowed to complain about burn guard. It’s easily countered, has obvious tells, less survivable than a power medi guard, and literally has only 1 single damaging he could ever apply to you.

Ele on the other hand is a whole debate on its own. The ability to stack and maintain that much might and boon, the sustain it has, the raw power damage + the high access to the most damaging condi in a bursty stacking manner.. those are issues with ele.. not burn .. ele .. killing ele has always been annoying .. what they got with teh latest patch is a free addition to dps without any real loss in dps. Their burn wasn’t significant before and now it is. What needs to be done here is to balance the ELE’s access to burn.

For engis, i have yet to fight a burn based engi.. not sure what everyone is complaining about. If it’s op, why isn’t it all over the place? (really asking here)

Condi ranger access to burn is very positional and is not an issue. Their burn is stacking only if you’re standing in it. You say cc ? i say stun break. you say immob ? i say condi clear. you say need to cap point? well i’m yet to hear anyone yelling “nerf necro wells and marks cause i can’t stand on point” soo not sure what you want here.

I main guard .. and i’ve fiddled with burn guard .. it is fun to play. However, I NEVER fight an ele/necro/guardian. Why ? Because my dps potential is SIGNIFICANTLY reduced. They can outsustain me and carry a stronger burst on me while brushing off my burns. It’s unfortunate for thieves to die to burn guard but what’s new? thieves die to power medi as well .. and to ANY condi class even before burn.. Engis i like to take down. However a good engi that kites well can overwhelm my burn guard. Mesmers on the other hand is a flip of a coin. With a mesmer, the it boils down to who got the jump on whom. If mesmer spots you first, guard is dead. If Guard spots mesmer first, mesmer is dead. (assuming equal skill level)

Please consider the following when calling for a nerf on burn:

1- The condi itself was meant to be the strongest condi in the game
2- If the condi is too bursty due to stacking, the stacking it is the issue not the damage per stack. A balance of stacking access is what’s needed.
3- Should burn get nerfed, Guardian burning needs to be compensated by giving the guardian more access to stacks. why ? because it’s literally the only damaging condi they can apply. The damage they do on condi guard is at the same level or lower of the damage done with power guard while taking less surviavbility than power guard.

To leave you with final thoughts:
Guardian for a long long long long long long time has only had 2 builds. Bunker/support or Medi power .. anything outside of those wasn’t viable at competitive level. For the first time in ages guardian is having variety. In your crusade to seek a more balanced competitive gaming experience, I ask of you to be fair in and objective in what ask for. Balance burn for the classes that have a multitude of damage sources and multitude of condition sources.. don’t go prosecute the 1 trick pony.

ps: I’m still waiting on the rage on mesmers and the confusion change to be a ticking damage that is unavoidable. especially when mesmers can burst down tanks and when the tank survives they still have stacks over stacks of confusion to deal with.

Please add Superior Sigil of Incapacitation as a pvp option. It would help classes that lack cc effects like guardian.

Is there a specific reason why it’s not already included? just wondering.

Also what do other players think about its addition to pvp ?

Hey Arken .. just had a thought and wondering what you think of it. I watched the latest video and got intrigued by your opinoin of Dulled Senses (master in DH) .. It got me thinking about potential use of cripple.

First i wanna give my ideas about Symbolic Avenger. Symbolic Avenger as we all know is very subpar damage modifier when compared to other classes. It’s very positional and as you said it relies on the enemy screwing up and being stupid enough to stay in your symbols. My vision for it is to either buff the damage modifier to 20% OR leave it at 10% but make it so that the enemy would recieve 10% more damage from ANY player hitting him while he’s stupid enough to stay in the symbol (basically making it work like 10 stack of vulnerability that can’t be cleansed) I like the second option as it feels more like more a guardian role.

Having said that, how would you feel about making Symbolic Avenger make symbols apply Cripple on each pulse? Would it help make the trait more more attractive and useful ? I know it may be a choice for players because it’s the least bad of the three (depending on the weapon choice) but i think applying cripple would very much make it more attractive to me. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

I might be crazy here but what if ..
Stalwart Defender : Reduce cooldown on Shield skills, Reduce cooldown on Virtue of Courage passive AND active, while weilding a shiled, Virtue of Courage passive effect is shared with allies (ie allies get aegis evertime virtue of courage passive procs)
I might be crazy but that sounds like a kitten appealing trait to me. The choice becomes use Strength in numbers if you neeeded toughness, communal defenses if you wanted the blocks for allies but not use a shield, Stalward defender when using a shiled
What do you guys think ?

edit: After all shield is meant to be a support weapon .. reducing damage on allies fits that role by procing virtue of courage passive on allies while having a reduced cooldown.

edit: The goal is to make it the cooldown on virtue of courage down to 20s when using both Stalward defender AND Indomitable Courage.

I might be crazy here but what if ..

Stalwart Defender : Reduce cooldown on Shield skills, Reduce cooldown on Virtue of Courage passive AND active, while weilding a shiled, Virtue of Courage passive effect is shared with allies (ie allies get aegis evertime virtue of courage passive procs)

I might be crazy but that sounds like a kitten appealing trait to me. The choice becomes use Strength in numbers if you neeeded toughness, communal defenses if you wanted the blocks for allies but not use a shield, Stalward defender when using a shiled

What do you guys think ?

edit: After all shield is meant to be a support weapon .. reducing damage on allies fits that role by procing virtue of courage passive on allies while having a reduced cooldown.

edit: The goal is to make it the cooldown on virtue of courage down to 20s when using both Stalward defender AND Indomitable Courage.

Thiefz .. This ia response to you:

There are so many things wrong here that i don’t know where to begin..

1. range pressure on point is THE STRONGEST way of getting a guardian off point. The enemy player DOES NOT have to be on point in order to ge the guardian off . (rangers , mesmers , bow warriors, grenade engis, well necros, minion mance necros, staff eles, , etc) .. the idea that i can hold on point cause the enemy has to come on point and stand in my symbols is ludicrious cause that’s RARELY the case. It’s areay of denial tactics and pressureing the guardian OFF point and then capping it yourself when the guard is off of it or downed or dead.

2. Symbols DO NOT increase burning damage. ANY DAMAGE MODIFIER trait, rune , or sigil DO NOT increase condition damage unless it explicitly says it does. What i mean is : Symbolic avenger, Fiery Wrath , Sigil of force, sigil of strength .. etc .. anything that says +x% damage DOES NOT increase condtion damage nor does it in crease Retaliation damage. It’s been tested and proven (i reteseted it myself after specialization) . So saying that burn builds will take Symbolic Avenger to increase passive burn damage is way way missing the mark.

3. Purging flames DOES NOT pulse burning .. It places an initial 3 stacks of burning and that’s it . In order for purging flames to apply more burning to the enemy player, he has to CROSS it . ie he has to walk/run through the borders of the ring of purging flames which would stack 3 more stacks of burning on him (if he dodges through the ring, he doesn’t get the burning) . Also , if he stands inside the ring and never cross it, he will not get more burning than the initial 3 stacks of burning. I’ts been proven and tested. It deson’t. So please don’t confuse people by saying it pulses burning.

4. Even if you’re running a burning build in PVP (this is different in wvw) 9/10 you’re not running a symbol based weapon (mace/staff/hammer) .. the greatsword is the only weapon that has a symbol that fits a burning build style. Why do you say so ? because burning guardian is based on maximizing hits/second. the more you can hit per second that more burn you achieve.. the mace/staff/hammer tend to have very low hits/second when compared with scepter/torch/sword/greatsowrd. Those weapons maximize hits/second. No one in their right mind would use a symbol based setup for pvp for a burn build UNLESS they’re making some sort of a hybrid BUNKER/BURN which i tried and was gimmiky and awkward to use.

5- you said "You can’t compare a 20% increase damage when the opponent is at 50% hp in a vacuum. Symbols, when done with a goal in mind (Conquest), are decent. It’s not meditation guard and it’s not bunker guard. It’s just different. I would benefit from a 20% increase so doesn’t matter to me. " .. I’d like to respond by saying it’s not a vaccum that the comparision is done in. You say it builds up when the other traits are taken into account? the issue is that every single trait that maximizes damage on guard is subpar compared to other classes. (fire based 7+ , retaltiaion based 10%, symbol based 10%) so AT BEST case we have 27% more damage when : enemy has burn, we have retal, AND they are standing in our symbol . Meaning what ? Iam forced to use 2 lines (zeal and radiance) and forced to trait into 4 traits in order to get something that’s VERY conditional at best and a tiny bit stronger than what other classes are getting WITHOUT those limitations . What do i mean with that ? the other classes are getting that 20% increase WITHOUT a ton of conditions set on them triggering, WITHOUT being forced into 4 traits as they get it in ONE trait. No sir it’s not a vaccum.. it’s plain and simple facts.

For DAMAGE MODIFIERS to stack up on a guard to reach similar levels to other classes, you’re forced into 2-3 trait lines .. and forced into 4 traits MINIMUM while other classes get it in 1 SINGLE TRAIT. You have to MAINTAIN multiple conditions (burn/retal/enemy in symbol) while they just focus on damaging enemy without convuluted conditions to manage. You have to spec to maximize: burn procs, retal uptime, symbol uptime, and cc to hold enemy in symbols .. those CAN NOT be put together in a viable build.. the uptime in retal isn’t matching the need for it to maintaing the damage buff ..

2 choices here:

1 – Symbolic avenger damage % increases to 20%

OR

2 – Symbolic avenger makes allies hit the enemy standing in the symbol for 10% more damage (preferable .. better fitting the guardian role .. more use in pvp and wvw) as others said it doesn’t have to stack for guardians or it would be broken. there could be 50 symbols .. only a 10% increase will be achieved.

If they change it so it would give the 10% damage to allies as well when attacking people in your symbols, then it would give a whole new meaning to a staff/mace guardian bunker. Zeal might actually be a favorable part of some builds and writ of persistance might become much much more favorable to pure of voice if that was the case.

WindGodGirl.6405:

Doesn’t Symbolic Avenger boost the damage enemies take for EVERYONE standing in your Symbols?

If it was indeed a buff increase to everyone else, I think that would make it ok. But I asked in here : https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Symbolic-Avenger-Intended-Behavior/ .. and by the looks of it, it’s not.

amen … while the symbolic avengaer is very positional as the enemy MUST stay in your symbol for the dmg incr to activate, these other traits are active regardless of enemy positioning and actually more useful as they trigger at key moments in fights when enemy is ALREADY being pressured below 50% health.

Why the nerf of symbolic avenger compared to these traits ?

one says it’s because we have traits that give us increase in damage with burning or when we have retaltation .. that’s 7% + 10% respectively on VERY CONDITIONAL situations . so IF i have burning on the enemy and IF i have retaliation at the same time then and only then i have 17% damage increase … well that’s not even 20% compared to the very LOW condition traits the other classes have :/

Guards have damage modifiers but they’re very low/conditional for them to be utilized effectively. Also it’s very very very hard to stack them in a build the synergizes well .. don’t believe me? go try and make a build that’s focused on utilizing as many damage modifiers as possibly and tell me whether you can make a build or not /

Palomid.9256:

If you think GS/H isn’t viable in sPvP you’re just not that good at it.

I, however, am; and I can assure you, it works incredibly well for me.

In fact, pretty certain I’ve still got screenshots on my desktop (on laptop currently) of a trash talking MetaMedi Guard with GS/S-F getting completely stomped by me and my “un-ranged” build…

…Just because it doesn’t work for you doesn’t mean someone else can’t play well enough for it to be fully viable for them

I don’t just believe it works .. I actually played successfully for a couple of month pre patch. I haven’t thought too much about how to spec it post-specializations .. Would you mind sharing the build you’re doing well on ? I could use a good starting point

I’m curious to this too.. If anyone has had experience with a cele guardian in pvp, i’d love to hear their thoughts on the matter.

generally i’ve noticed people shy away from cele guard considering it subpar because it lacks the might stacking that most cele builds have on other classes.

Just like thief cries over guardian (burn or power ) , burn guard cries over eles, necros, and other guards. It’s the circle of life .. you can’t be king under the mountain .. well .. unless you’re a qq mesmer .. :P

i wrote this somewhere else but here is how i think spitit weapons should be changed:

Coolddown must start at the time of summoning not the time of their death. That’s a BIG BAD THING about spirit weapons uptime. Their downtime is way too high considering they are meant to replace your utilites.

also do either one of these:

1- Infinite duration until killed ( very similar to minions on necros )

OR

2-(the better option) Limited duration but can’t be killed. They are spirits after all. They could have a limited uptime but make them viable by making them unkillable. It would make them much more attractive to guardians.

Saiyan.1704:

Guardians performance is great only if the stars align. Burning is not insane and it’s definitely not OP. Comparing Rampage to Burn Guardians is an utter joke.. one is Tournament Meta while the other isn’t.

You’ve spoken the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

It’s very powerful ONLY if the stars align. Outside of that, it’s easily countered and pressured. I pretty much run away from 1v1 with eles, guardians, and necros. Why ? not becuase their op (up for a different discussion) but rather cause they EASILY and STUPIDLY counter my burn guard.

Our potential as burn guards only hits maximum when the STARS ALIGN (ie. these conditions need to be met for the SO CALLED op burn to occur: group fight, enemies clustered, lack of guardian bunker, no resistance buff on enemies, guard burst is off cooldown, and no CC is on the way to interrupt the WW) … ANY of these conditions not met and you’ll see the DPS potential of a burning guardian diminish significantly.

Burn guards are just like power medi guards in survivablity. Scratch that.. they’re even LESS that power medi cuard in survivablity. We have to give up condi clear on f2 and stability on f3. AND most likely give up one meditation for Purging Flames. That leaves us with 2 medis for heal instead of 3 and with SIGNIFICANT condi clearing loss. We survive worse than power medi due to these facts.

The stars don’t align often in team fights. If they did, you’d see burn meta dominating but it’s not . It’s less survivable and much less effective against premade teams. Sure it’s fun in solo queue but can’t you say the same thing about qq mesmers that one shot people from full health to 0 ? or condi theives that unload and have the freedom to disengage whenever they choose like it ? guards can’t peel/disengage easily. They tend to go in deep and if the stars don’t align, they get PUNISHED for it.

All or nothing.. that’s the way of the guardian babe!

Demon.2430:

It does proc AH 5 times as might does ofc. Tested it. It works as intended.

Awesome news

I’d recommended starting with the June 23rd 2015 patch notes as they are the biggest recent game changers . The meta is still in flux after them. Personally I’m enjoying guardian more now but miss some old flexibilities.

Interesting concept .. I’ll be sure to try a variation of this soon. Keep in mind you’re lacking in mobility , condi clears , and any form of “oh kitten” buttons outside of your virtues yet you have the same hp as a zerker medi guard who has the sustain through medis. I’d reconsider the choice of amulet and runes since the runes have 30s ICD.

Having said that, I’m amazed at the retal uptime and amount of CC this provides. I’ll make a variant of this and try it out. Looking forward to reading about your experience with yours and see how it develops after field testing.

I might look into a condi setup between burning and bleeding on traps . That trap that spins swords might be a good source to proc a lot of bleeding AND burning .. So most likely I’ll be trying something like radiance/virtues/DH to start with but won’t know it till I get my hands on it.

Ezrael.6859:

x indigo x.6981:

Don’t remove the bolts. It’s aoe condo clear, it’s more hits for virtue of justice for burning builds, it’s projectile burning when in a fire field…. If the enemy is using retal good fire them.. I would spin on an enemy that has retal be it with bolts or no bolts. What you’re saying here is " I want to take down an enemy that has retaliation because I can’t bother to wait 2 seconds before my burst."… Grow up and learn when to burst and when to not and stop coming up with these stupid ideas to nerf an already limited class! … OuR only damaging condo is burning .. And burning procs per hit .. Now you want to take away our burst of hits?? Your logic is flawed! Just wait out the retal before you spin like every other competent guard :/

Way to go resorting to personal insults because you can’t comprehend the idea of people having a different opinion to yourself.

It’s really great that we have such fantastic people like yourself in our community.

To address your concern over burn procs anyway; those 7 small bolts hit for 65 damage each in a condi build, they will proc VoJ twice assuming you have it traited with Supreme Justice for 689 burning x2. So 1833 damage between small bolts and burning.

And you’ll take 1925 damage in return from Retaliation. Still worth those procs?

You add those retal damage calculation as if it’s GURANTEED. To hit me. Well surprisingly I’m one of those few and far in between that actually look at my enemies buffs before I press my attack buttons. If I see retal I don’t attack. So here is the real math for you:

1833 damage of burning (according to you) but. X5 cause I’d apply it to 5 people due to permeating wrath trait and good positioning.. So that’s a total potential dps loss of 9165 . And I wouldn’t hit players with retal cause DUUH .. So my damage would 0 not 1925 but rather 0.

So.. When played right ,bolts give 9165 dps and damages you for 0.

When played unwise but good positioning , deal 9165 dps and damages you for 1925.

When played right with bad positining , deal 1833 dps and damages you for 0

When played stupid ( the scenario you’re suggesting ) deal 1833 dps and get damaged for 1925

What’s different between all these situations ? YOUR OWN JUDGEMENT OF WHEN TO ENGAGE.

If played well massive boost to dps .. When played stupid you kill yourself.. That’s the definition of guardian mate.

Black Box.9312:

Mryul.8165:

Burn is not OP. For guardians it’s literally the only condition it has and ALL the skills that proc burn are super easy to dodge or avoid entirely. Not to mention just cleanse.. There is so much cleanse after the latest patches. Just dont run a build with no cleanses if you cant dodge condi triggering abilities.

IF anything, it needs a buff. Anyone with a decent build can just lol-cleanse any stack of burn if they are super bad enough to get hit by it.

The problem with burning in its current iteration is that you can essentially use it as burst damage, which defies its role as a condition (damage over time). Yes, you can cleanse it pretty quickly, but classes like Guard, Ele, and Engi can apply it frequently enough in multiple stacks that it’s still going to tick for 2k+ dmg even if it’s cleansed after just one second, and within the next 3 seconds you’ll have all of those stacks right back on you again.

It needs a nerf, not a buff.

It doesn’t need a nerd .. It needs a buff .. What you should be asking for is limit burning access on eles and engis since they have access to many other condis. But to complain about a guard causing burning when it’s literally the only damaging condi he can inflict? That’s just absurd.

I’ll say it once again .. If burn is to be nerfed (I don’t think it should) condi guardian burn needs to be buffed to compensate to the loss on the nerf. ITS OUR ONLY kitten CONDI ! I mean have you seen how Appel a condi ranger, condi engi, condi necro can burst people with condi bombs and how FAST they can reapply them ?? What’s with the a about burning now.

If it’s to be nerfed, the guardian needs to be compensated by making virtue of justice proc apply more stacks not just duration as duration isn’t useful in pvp as stacks are.

MidoriMarch.8067:

From what i know Anet already announced that shield will be totally redesigned in HoT.

Source please?

Saiyan.1704:

I’ve seen 10x more burn guardians now than prepatch. They may be a dime a dozen, but they’re there.

What discourages people is the fact we get outplayed (not necessarily hard countered) all too easily. Take the meta for example – Shout cleansing Bunker Guards, Condi transfering Necros, self sustaining (and cleansing) Eles. Those three classes together means you’ll be hitting like a wet noodle and you’ll never out-sustain them.

Thieves, Engi, Ranger, War, even Mesmers in a group, non 1v1 scenarios, are easy in comparison. It’s team comp that beats us, not necessarily a single class.

They call us OP in solo queue because they’re not on a good team… tell them to bring a necro and/or Guardian next time. If they lose in a 1v1, tell them to l2p. Seriously, we’re so subpar in the 1v1 area compared to power builds that it’s ridiculous. We’re far from being OP.

+1. Exactly this to the letter.. I main Condi guard in pvp and its alot of fun. But when I see the enemy comp heavy on the anti-burn I swap to power cause I don’t want to be a wet noodle .

Your worst nightmare on a condi guard is a competent dd ele in a 1v1 or a bunker shout guard in a team fight. You’re better off just going to a different point cause there is no point of you being there in the fight .

UNLESS

You have a buddy with constant Condi spamming like a dual pistol engi or condi thief or condi necro .. They don’t have to be specced in condi damage but as long as they spam the condis you’re good. Why? Because it will exhaust the enemy condi cleansing and allow your burns to sneak through. It’s about creating a kink in the armor and ripping it apart with heavy burns that sneak through.

It’s alot of fun when it works but you have to understand when you can and cannot be effective as a burn guard.

Don’t remove the bolts. It’s aoe condo clear, it’s more hits for virtue of justice for burning builds, it’s projectile burning when in a fire field…. If the enemy is using retal good fire them.. I would spin on an enemy that has retal be it with bolts or no bolts. What you’re saying here is " I want to take down an enemy that has retaliation because I can’t bother to wait 2 seconds before my burst."… Grow up and learn when to burst and when to not and stop coming up with these stupid ideas to nerf an already limited class! … OuR only damaging condo is burning .. And burning procs per hit .. Now you want to take away our burst of hits?? Your logic is flawed! Just wait out the retal before you spin like every other competent guard :/

Prepatch I used to play a gs/hammer medi with valor/honor/virtues and valkyrie amulet. Battle/Intelligence sigil, and either strength or traveller rune.

I haven’t yet sat down to make it work with the new specialization but I think that losing two handed mastery must have hurt gs/hammer builds as hammer utilities have long cool downs.

I hope this helps guide someone.

There is a little subtle point here that is like to comment on.

Don’t try to make 1 build that does it all in wvw. You will simply end up with a mediocre build if you try to do so.

Make a roaming build and then make a zerging build. Have both builds ( armor, weapons, trinkets, utilities, traits) available in your inventory and ready to be swapped to at any point. If you feel like roaming, equip the roaming build. If you feel like zerging, equip the zerging build.

The way gw2 deals with a builds allows for such setup. There is NO COST to retraiting your specialization and you can carry the extra gear in your bags. That’s the way I’ve been doing it for the past year and it’s been working very well. It allows me to make specialized builds that I’m ready to swap to whenever needed. Burn guard, medi guard, zerg guard, healing guard, .. etc

Either unlimited duration or make them unkillable .. If you’re worried about it feeling similar, make spirit weapons have a limited duration but are unkillable. They are spirits after all! There is nothing like that in the game at the moment.

That’s a very good question. I an interested in getting the answer from the devs. As stability now has stacks in intensity, it follows reason that it should prof proc AH per stack in the same manner might procs AH .. If it doesn’t, then that should be considered a bug and brought to the devs attention. Can anyone confirm what’s the behavior of this in game at its current state?

lil devils x.6071:

Jayne.9251:

lil devils x.6071:

Jayne.9251:

lil devils x.6071:

x indigo x.6981:

lil devils x.6071:

butch.8136:

lil devils x.6071:

illenos.5134:

x indigo x.6981:

Please don’t get discouraged .. THIS IS AN AMAZING CHANGE TO WVW! and all the true wvw players who has vision know it! .. You have my support here from TC.

“All the true wvw players”…well I guess I’m not trve enough to understand this change. For me it seems to be as half thought out as the golem rush event but I guess time will show us how and if it will change anything.

“Time” is a problem though during the time that people cannot play with friends or are logging into ghost town servers, we will be losing more players that " would have been" that will leave the game. The issue is this causes more problems than it solves unless the end goal was to have less players playing wvwv all together in the end.

Instead of telling your friends to come play with you , you will have to find a game you can actually play together now instead. For me to play with my Lil sis, we will have to play a different game instead.

Go to an open server to play with your sis.
Fixed your problem and maybe a bit more balance in the population of servers.

And what about my guild, my brother, my husband? I am supposed to abandon my guild and the rest of my family to play with my sis? We could probably make a server full just by us alone.. We pin multiple maps at once and run multiple time zones, and I am actually a leader in multiple guilds. Like I said, we are probably the largest wvw guild on JQ,… Did you read the sig? LOL

Balance isn’t going to be solved by this LOL.

ummm what exactly are you complaining about ? Your sis can’t get in cause now all of a sudden JQ is full ? Hasn’t JQ been full for like FOREVER ? :/

In the previous system, it would open in the evenings for brief times and people would get in slowly she had just been working during that time and waiting for a day off to do so.

Why/when did she transfer off in the first place?

She was never able to get on to JQ. Invited my sister and her Husband to come play with me, they buy the game then cannot. They haven’t been playing at all until they can get into JQ.

Then maybe you should consider what the poster above said — if your family can fill an entire server itself, maybe move them all down a few tiers. Being #1 no longer matters in regards to server pride, etc … it’s just a number because of stacking — you could feesibly go down to a medium pop server and make a massive difference — and then have REAL server/family pride.

My family.. not just family. My guilds.. you are talking about paying for hundreds of players to move server, not to mention you are expecting hundreds of players wanting to move? ALL because they broke the game? If I am going to go through that much trouble, we can just play something else.

BROKE THE GAME ?! with the new system ??!!! hahahahahahah … The ability to CHEAT the system and get SUPER MEGA OVERSTACKED like what happend in JQ and BG is what BROKE THE GAME ! ..

To prevent overstacking and endless queues, limitations need to be put into place. It could be your sister, my brother, his childhood friend .. it could be anybody ! Somebody will HAVE to be limited in their access .. WvW and fun play involves more than opening arms to anyone and everyone to BLOB like the premise KILL was built around.

As other people have stated , if you actually have the population in your guild to make a significant change to server balance, farm silverwastes for 2 weeks and get your guild to where your sister is. It’s your choice between your sister and your guild. This is the case with ANY multiplayer game (video or tangible) that has limited seats. The seats are filled in JQ … Grow up and make a choice instead of whining about a completely valid and healthy long term system.

Lets say for the sake of the argument that they remove the population limitation on the servers. Therefore only Queues will be the bottleneck instead of the Server Population.

How would you feel if you were waiting to get into a WvW map for 3 hours and you’re still in queue ? cause that’s what would happen should they eliminate the server population limitation. It WILL ruin your wvw experience through the long ever lasting queues. I’m talking about 100+ queue on each map for all the T1 servers ..

Then will come the new complaints of please increase map population size .. then will come please add more maps cause queues too much .. and the cycle will never end …

Those that are fighting the WHOLE IDEA of population limitation in severs JUST BECAUSE they have 1 or 2 friends that want to get into an ALREADY OVERSTACKED server.. those people are short sighted and don’t see the long term downsides of what they’re asking nor do they see the great benefits this new population system will provide OVER TIME .. again i say it .. OVER TIME ..

/sigh

lil devils x.6071:

butch.8136:

lil devils x.6071:

illenos.5134:

x indigo x.6981:

Please don’t get discouraged .. THIS IS AN AMAZING CHANGE TO WVW! and all the true wvw players who has vision know it! .. You have my support here from TC.

“All the true wvw players”…well I guess I’m not trve enough to understand this change. For me it seems to be as half thought out as the golem rush event but I guess time will show us how and if it will change anything.

“Time” is a problem though during the time that people cannot play with friends or are logging into ghost town servers, we will be losing more players that " would have been" that will leave the game. The issue is this causes more problems than it solves unless the end goal was to have less players playing wvwv all together in the end.

Instead of telling your friends to come play with you , you will have to find a game you can actually play together now instead. For me to play with my Lil sis, we will have to play a different game instead.

Go to an open server to play with your sis.
Fixed your problem and maybe a bit more balance in the population of servers.

And what about my guild, my brother, my husband? I am supposed to abandon my guild and the rest of my family to play with my sis? We could probably make a server full just by us alone.. We pin multiple maps at once and run multiple time zones, and I am actually a leader in multiple guilds. Like I said, we are probably the largest wvw guild on JQ,… Did you read the sig? LOL

Balance isn’t going to be solved by this LOL.

ummm what exactly are you complaining about ? Your sis can’t get in cause now all of a sudden JQ is full ? Hasn’t JQ been full for like FOREVER ? :/ .. it’s the ultimate BLOB server that every karma trainer dreams of getting to.

lil devils x.6071:

illenos.5134:

x indigo x.6981:

Please don’t get discouraged .. THIS IS AN AMAZING CHANGE TO WVW! and all the true wvw players who has vision know it! .. You have my support here from TC.

“All the true wvw players”…well I guess I’m not trve enough to understand this change. For me it seems to be as half thought out as the golem rush event but I guess time will show us how and if it will change anything.

“Time” is a problem though during the time that people cannot play with friends or are logging into ghost town servers, we will be losing more players that " would have been" that will leave the game. The issue is this causes more problems than it solves unless the end goal was to have less players playing wvwv all together in the end.

Please understand that this change is meant to SOLVE the ghost town issue. If anet combines this with a dynamic transfer rate cost, BOOM that would solve a HUGE part of the problem with strong momentum too.

What are you looking for? more players in your lower tier ? this will solve it.
Is playing with your friends more important than playing in T1? this will solve it. Transfer with your friends.
Are servers OVERSTACKED with population bigger than what the map can hold? are queues killing your wvw experience ? this will solve it.
Is your guild and other guilds looking for a fresh start? this will solve it.

What exactly is the issue you’re complaining about ? Players getting locked out of a FULL server ? that is NEEDED to make the experience for the players on that server better. You want to get to a full server? ask yourself why ? This is a good change to WvW .. this is healthy long term approach ! This isn’t the libosection or twisted fancy cosmetic change. This is a healthy diet long term plan of success approach. We always look for the diet pill, but have you tried changing the bad habits and having a salad every once in a while ? :/

Blaaaaah ! i’m ranting now ! .. please understand that this is a very healthy change. The approach is right. The only thing that needs to prove itself now is how robust the algorithm is.

To those that complain about it and not like it, I would very much love to hear your suggestions as to what solutions would have been better.

Some said lower total server numbers .. meaning retire some server.. meaning FORCE people to transfer servers.. meaning violate those players cause hey i don’t like new algorithm ..

Some said free transfers .. THE WHOLE ISSUE STARTED BECAUSE OF FREE TRANSFERS. Please do not bring free transfers back. In fact add more penalties on players transferring out of lower population servers towards higher population servers. while also encouraging and rewarding transfers from higher population server to lower ones.

PICK A SERVER AND STICK TO IT! Have some server pride! Improve the community in your server! Learn not to just raise your hands and run away to another server when things get tough!

If you’re in lower tier, this will bring more population your way. If you’re in high tier, this will alleviate your queues. THIS IS A GOOD THING . UNDERSTAND THAT , PEOPLE !

Samuel Loretan.8601:

Population levels aren’t used to determine matchups – ratings are. Some randomization on the ratings is happening to introduce some variance in the matchups, but if there is a rather large gap in the ratings, that randomization might not be enough to create diverse matchups.

The goal of this change is to make the population spread out better, which will in turn make the ratings get closer, which will result in both more interesting matchups, and more variability as well. This will take some time to happen.

Please don’t get discouraged .. THIS IS AN AMAZING CHANGE TO WVW! and all the true wvw players who has vision know it! .. You have my support here from TC.

I know you can’t tell me this without revealing the algorithm but i just strongly hope that the algorithm takes into account timezone coverage and not just raw population numbers. Alot of the time the server matchups get skewed due to coverage issues. If one server is stacked in say NA timezone to make them FULL, it would be really difficult for them to get any transfers in for their weaker time zones like OCX and SEA times.

My question here:

What is the plan to tackle imbalanced timezone coverage in very high and Full servers? Does the population-determining algorithm take that into account or are server communities encouraged to approach the problem through different methods? I ask because our servers suffers from such a problem and we’re still set as FULL.

Samuel Loretan.8601:

A “Full” server is a server with a number of Active WvW Players (as defined by the algorithm) above a certain threshold. It has nothing to do with hardware limitations, or PvE players.

The “Full” threshold is slightly different than the other ones because it doesn’t have an upper limit. So some servers can be just slightly above the threshold and marked “Full”, and some other servers might be well over it, and also marked “Full”, even though their populations aren’t really balanced.

The intent is that since you can’t join or transfer to a “Full” server, their populations are going to diminish over time, until eventually they reach “Very High” again. At this point, all “Full” servers are going to be balanced. This won’t be right away, though, since we’re not kicking anyone out of their servers.

Very well put and a good plan indeed. Thanks for the prompt response.

I know this should be discussed somewhere else but would the idea of a little bit lower transfer rates for players transferring OUT of FULL servers be considered to help build the momentum towards balancing the servers ?

Samuel Loretan.8601:

• It will continue to be impossible to join or transfer to Full servers. It is possible that some servers are going to be marked as Full for a long time. While I understand this can be annoying for some, this is necessary to create a better experience for everyone.

Could you please elaborate on this point? .. what defines a Full server ? Is it a server that has reached the maximum number of players total because of hardware limitations that include BOTH WvW and PVE players? Or is the the determination of the Full server SOLELY based on this new algorithm that reflects pure WvW population and has no relation to the PVE (those that don’t wvw at all) population on the server?

This is an important distincation for T1 servers. As we’re all currently full, if pve population is included in the determination of FULL status , then our server population in WvW will not benefit from the new system as others might.

Please note i’m not asking for the algorithm here.. just an understanding if PVE population is included in the FULL status determination cause it affects HARDWARE limitations.

Hope this question makes sense .. looking forward to hearing from you

Amazing job by the way ! i know this will benefit WvW in general !

I’ve included more evidence taken from the other thread.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Golem-rush-fix-it-or-scrap-it/first#post5306628

Fortra.5918:

Honestly dude, there is no evidence of them intentionally exploiting. Kazo kittening loves to Ktrain so ofc they’re gonna be in golems 24/7 and if there is a bug with that golem buff staying on after said person hops out of golem then there is a higher chance of it happening to them.
As far as I can see, I don’t see any proof of them intentionally doing it, just that the buff is there.
I’ve seen videos of golems using ice bows and killing an entire zerg in 1 ice bow 4, another bug.
Another bug is golem duping, thats back too during this week.

I’ve personally run around EOTM and WvW looking for this so called “Accedental bug” that occurs to players without them realizing. NO ONE has it outside of the goelms and i’m in a T1 server and there were karma train BLOBS that tapped thrgouh trying to find it.. But for some reason i see a cluster of players from the same guild, that somehow REGAIN the buff after dying (yes the buff goes away when you die and you have to INTENTIONALLY gain it back) and come and fight us again with it on.

That is Exploiting. That’s plain and simple guildies teaching guildies how to exploit and utilizing it in a GUILD coordinated raid. None of the pugs around them had it outside of golems. It’s not accidental buff that happens cause you use golem much. It’s an exploit that’s being intentionally utilized to gain advantage in a competitive context with evidence being provided to prove it.

KILL, KAZO, and TWL were the the guilds that again and again showed members having the buff in CLUSTERS (emphasis on this word) and not just individuals who accidently happend to have it.