Guild Wars 2

No one here has to power to say what is right and what is wrong. We are just giving suggestions and Anet can read and decide.

If you dont agree with someone else’s opinion you can disagree, or create another post, but you cant censor or try to suppress anyone that comes up with a different idea. This is freedom of spech. I have the same right to post whatever I think about the class balance as you do.

@People trolling, the max you will get with your offensive raging posts is an infraction.

Summarizing contructive ideas of how to fix/nerf the out-liner dmg of shatter mesmer:

-nerf/rework sigil of air and fire
-increase cd on gs
-put a cast time on staff #2 or increase the cd
-make ilusionary persona only work if you have at least 1 clone alive
-put an internal cd on deceptive evasion or move it to grandmaster. Evasive arcana each spell has a 10s cd.
-remove unblockable from mirror blade. why a 8s cd easy to land skill is unblockable?
-reduce the vulnerability from dazzling. way too many stacks and they last too long.

jihm.2315:

say what ever you want once it lands its an i win button , outplaying a mesmer for the whole fight suddenly he stealths or switch position or what the hell they do and he wins because he landed a single skill.
give to all classes a skill that turn others into a useless animal and i will be ok.

Moa need’s some rework. Maybe reduce the duration to 6seconds. Or let the enemy use utilities. Shatter mesmer right now is already god mode without even using moa, moa just makes it even more faceroll.

Daishi.6027:

xDudisx.5914:

Full zerker builds have already trivialized pve. Anet dont let them take over spvp. Nerf shatter and broken zerker specs.

So “ALL” zerk specs are overpowered? Annnnd now we know you are trolling, considering most players are able to deal with majority of zerker specs in the game without meta builds, and yes that includes mesmers.

If you are not trolling and unable to keep up then you are just bad, and should probably stay out of PvP if you can’t handle getting rekt. Or at the very least spend less time QQing on the forums and more time playing maybe then you’ll acquire some game sense.

The only zerk spec that might be over powered or atleast is the most susceptible to power creep is meditation guard. Because that is the lowest risk you can possibly get on a zerk spec while still contesting a point.

Almost all the thieves and mesmers are zerker, this is 2/8 = 25% of the classes in game running 1 amulet and people still think it should be buffed hahaha. I can post any suggestion and I dont care about your opinion the same way you dont care about mine. You say qq, I say you are defending the broken build. Looks like the mesmer comunity is united in defending their easy way to kill anything. At least next update is buffing condition spec, not the utterly broken ranged shatter.

15 character……….

Full zerker builds have already trivialized pve. Anet dont let them take over spvp. Nerf shatter and broken zerker specs.

Fine if the problem is fury, give fury plus 30% crit. that way if you get fury from other source it wont stack 50+ 20 .

Everyone in this forum is always saying that the EU teams are so much better than NA and making fun about it. But now you want to tell me that a class is balance based only on the NA comps?

@Amstel Steel. nice video. This is a great analogy. When you give too much powerfull spells to mesmers they can even turn you into a defenseless bird, a moa

@dimyzuka.7051 i dont think nerf portal would solve the problem. they would just slot +1 utility moving the class towards an even more op 1v1 fighter

Another possibility would be instead of 50% for the user, give 20% to user+5 allies. Making it more desirable in pve, more team fight oriented in spvp and fixing the wvw problem.

Jerus.4350:

I’d point to examples like Might and sharpening stones. Basically the more defensive builds gain more % wise than the full glass builds, it’s a pretty common concept for this game and I think a good one. It keeps the defensive builds from being just big balls of HP that do absolutely nothing (which can still be achieved with nomads).

I’m a full glass Necro, as I pointed out it wouldn’t really affect me during the well drop, but it’d be a large nerf after that fury drops. So in effect I’d recieve a nerf because some people feel that necros who go a bit defensive shouldn’t be capable of a solid well drop.

I’m not buying it.

I enjoy the concept that necros who feel the need to go defensive can still provide what I feel is their primary function. It’s like a guardian can always provide stability. Eles always water fields, etc.

I go full zerk because I find I can, and then my lifeblasts really pack a punch, nerf this and that will be a direct nerf to the reason I run around full glass.

If you are really full zerker as you say you would be able to keep 100% even if they rework the trait to instead of add 50% it would double your base crit. Just zerker gear with no precision from traits would be around 39% , multiply by 2= 78 + fury = close to 100. But it would nerf the ones that are almost bunkers and still achieve 100% crit chance with the current state of the trait.

The sharpening stones and oils are not a problem because they are available for ALL the classes. Also they work as a %of something. Not a flat number like this trait +50.

Muchacho.2390:

xDudisx.5914:

It is basically problem that old lich form had. Maybe the extra crit chance should be add to the DS skill itself and not as base stats.

You do know that Lichform still increases precision to high levels? Only the power increase was changed…

So you still can use your wells and then go into Lichform for the extra crit chance.

When I said the same problem I meant to say the extra power exploiting to the wells. The precision is still broken and needs further fix/nerf IMO.

Amstel Steel.2058:

My question is — and I am not bothered in the least from whatever the original topic was about — is making use of canceling out the after casts by design? A follow up would be will gw2 ever get a bindable key to cancel actions for quality of life considering stow weapon is not as good for some situations as the esc key is or so I’ve read.

Are we meant to know how to increase our dps such as air/fire auto greatsword sans after casts? Obviously, because we can, but it doesn’t look like it is built with it in mind by no quality of life to teach new players how to manipulate their after casts. There is no button designed that shouts out press me to increase your dps.

You can create your own topic. Please lets focus in discuss how shatter is unbalanced and ways to nerf.

What point has this forum come to, where anyone that disagrees with others is “trolling”. Looks like the entire mesmer community is defending their over powered build. I could tell friends and guildies to come and post and agree with anything that I post just to have +people in my favor on the topic, would that change anything?

You dont need to know how to cook to know if the food tastes good or not. The same way you dont need to play a mesmer to notice how broken it is. I did one copy paste played in some hotjoins saw how cheese it is. You go whatch people on a dueling server everyone is a mesmer/thief.
Another analogy for you guys to see if you can understand this time. The great majority of this forums complained about passive dhuumfire but never played a necro. Does it make their argument useless? No

I am confident that anyone that played + than 50 games can see the unbalanced state of the class.

ps: Thank You for helping the topic get so much attention. Almost 2k views, + than 100 replies. Lets keep bumping it up to spread this for the entire comunity who misleadingly thinks PU is the problem when shatter really is the cancer.

Coulter.2315:

Nerf Fire+Air (or Blood or w/e) job done. Shatter Mesmer isn’t OP, the double proc sigils are.

Well this might be a solution. But since all the shatter mesmers have those sigils it is more one factor that makes the current state of the build op.

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

gw2 is an MMORPG before anything else. I dont see anywhere stating this game is an esport.

Compare mmorpg class balance with FPS is just dumb. Of course stuff is balanced in the fps and it is all about skill. If someone shot you in the head you will die. Everyone is similar, uses the same game mechanics (guns, grenades,…), they dont have unbalanced classes.

so if GW2 is MMORPG skillfull and high risk play must not be rewarded? Nice logic

If you want a “high risk” class go play a thief. Compare a ranged infinite kiting with high risk is a joke. Shatter mesmer current state has less risk and more reward than a longbow ranger.

I don’t know who sent you so crazy ideas, because at this topic it was 100 times showed your vision of pvp and especialy mesmer is incompetent. Your gscore tell your chars used at PvP: Ed Plaguebringuer, Ed The Mad, Ed The Fire Heart and I am sure noone of them is mesmer. So all your arguments is only your opinion and vision af game. But if we will accept only players IMHO then again >80% of this topic think you are wrong

They have shown previously how they dont care about the “majority of the forums” because it is not representative of all the playerbase. Porbably less than 1%. If they like the idea or suggestion they pick if they dont they dont pick it. If they were blindless following what the majority says this game would be 100% different of what it is now.

Tell me how do you use your magic powers to guess what classes do I play just based on the names?

The scores also only count the characters I use in tournaments. You dont need to know how to cook to say if the food tastes good or not. You also dont need to main a mesmer to give suggestions and opinions about the class balance.

Stand The Wall.6987:

people keep on assuming that the crit heal will apply to the caster, but it doesnt have to.

They prefer to ignore all the positive aspects that it would bring to the game and just point out some possible problems. Those problems could be avoided. My initial suggestion is not perfect but devs can ajust the numbers and % if they decide to implement to the game.

Jerus.4350:

xDudisx.5914:

Jerus.4350:

Here’s my problem with this idea, I think it’s misleading and would lead to nerfs outside the bomb drop not on the bomb drop. Don’t forget the minor trait that applies a few seconds of fury every time you go into DS. that’s 20% crit chance. So for me wearing full zerk, I’m sitting well above 100% during that well drop with the combination of everything. With the nerf suggested, I’d be sitting right around 100% for the well drop still… meaning it’d do NOTHING for that bomb.

What the nerf would do is nerf my life blasts after that fury drops and after the wells are gone.

That’s not at all how this request is being presented. And, I don’t think it needs to be nerfed for that considering the speed of lifeblast and what not.

If you are 100% zerker I am ok with that. The problem is that they can easily go full cavalier with some zerk and still achieve the 100% on DS.

So your problem is that this trait allows an almost full glass build to match a full glass build for a few crucial seconds?

Cavalier is not almost glass cannon. toughness-power-ferocity. I has 2 stats in common with berzerker but also 2 in common with soldiers. I could say it is a almost bunker too by that logic. And necros dont really need much vit because of high base hp + DS ( that same traitline also bosts DS survivabily)

What if it just doubles your crit chance? A zerker would still reach 100%. Someone that doesnt invest in precision would have dimish returns.

Jerus.4350:

Here’s my problem with this idea, I think it’s misleading and would lead to nerfs outside the bomb drop not on the bomb drop. Don’t forget the minor trait that applies a few seconds of fury every time you go into DS. that’s 20% crit chance. So for me wearing full zerk, I’m sitting well above 100% during that well drop with the combination of everything. With the nerf suggested, I’d be sitting right around 100% for the well drop still… meaning it’d do NOTHING for that bomb.

What the nerf would do is nerf my life blasts after that fury drops and after the wells are gone.

That’s not at all how this request is being presented. And, I don’t think it needs to be nerfed for that considering the speed of lifeblast and what not.

If you are 100% zerker I am ok with that. The problem is that they can easily go full cavalier with some zerk and still achieve the 100% on DS.

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

gw2 is an MMORPG before anything else. I dont see anywhere stating this game is an esport.

Compare mmorpg class balance with FPS is just dumb. Of course stuff is balanced in the fps and it is all about skill. If someone shot you in the head you will die. Everyone is similar, uses the same game mechanics (guns, grenades,…), they dont have unbalanced classes.

so if GW2 is MMORPG skillfull and high risk play must not be rewarded? Nice logic

If you want a “high risk” class go play a thief. Compare a ranged infinite kiting with high risk is a joke. Shatter mesmer current state has less risk and more reward than a longbow ranger.

gw2 is an MMORPG before anything else. I dont see anywhere stating this game is an esport.

Compare mmorpg class balance with FPS is just dumb. Of course stuff is balanced in the fps and it is all about skill. If someone shot you in the head you will die. Everyone is similar, uses the same game mechanics (guns, grenades,…), they dont have unbalanced classes.

Booms.2594:

dudis Im going to have to take the infraction that I really dont need and tell you that you have no idea what you’re talking about and should probably try playing in NA on mesmer if you think its so viable.

Just because we dont agree with each other and have different opinions about the state of the game doens’t mean I have no idea what I am talking about.

We can wait and see what the devs think about. Looks like they are going in the right direction of buffing other specs other than the overpowered shatter, but they still need to tone done shatter dmg. Just buff other specs wont make people run other builds if there is still one god mode build around.

Narkodx.1472:

Did you forget the most limiting factor of Death Perception? You can only use it in DeathShroud and it essentially benefits one skill Life Blast

I can not heal use any utilities use any weapon skills cleanse conditions etc etc etc

Zerker DS Necro is not overpowered in any part of the game nor is it even meta in any part of the game – sooooo nothx

Did you read the post? The problem is the way it exploit the crits to the wells.

Not meta in any part of the game? It is so popular in wvw that it is even in the meta website.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Necromancer_-_Wells_Backline

Swamurabi.7890:

xDudisx.5914:

*Death Perception: all the wells hits will be affected as long as you stay in DS. Well of suffering pulsing 6 times will hit land up to 30 guarantee critical hits + 25 hits from well of corruption.

The only way to get 30 criticals from WoS and 25 from WoC is to drop them on an AFK zerg.

Most players tend to NOT stand in the red circle, unless they’re stacked with their commander, which would have the well only hit 5 players/pulse in the entire zerg.

Stability and you can walk past the edge only taking 1 or 2 hits tops.
Same with stunbreak.
Dodge will get you most of the way across a well, again, taking 1 or 2 hits tops.
Blinks and leaps will get you out of the well.

.

There are several situations where you will hit all the hits. Droping wells in a chock point for example. Even if you run pass take 2 hits, by the moment you are leaving there are players getting inside. There is not only 1 single necro in there zerg, there are multiple.

zapv.8051:

They didn’t make the same changes to pve and wvw because nothing is op in those environments. .

Wait, so you say they are not considering pve/wvw in balance but just said they were split because they were no op in pve/wvw. That is consider pve/wvw for balance lol.

The topic is getting too long I ca’tn read and reply everything. Anyway I have stated what I think about shatter mesmer. It is too strong, has way too few counters, and overwall toxic for the game. I would even go further and say zerker specs are the reason spvp is not a popular game mode. Probably there are more people doing living story or even jumping puzzles than spvp nowadays.

Narkodx.1472:

Terrorsquad.2349:

- Shatter Mesmers are one the best in normal 1v1 (offpoint)
- Shatter Mesmers are the worst for 1v1 (on point)
- Shatter Mesmers have little to no condi cleanse (poison and one other damaging condi is enough; only need a bit of time)
- Shatter Mesmer mobility is not as strong (without frwd PR), therefore current meta forces them taking Rune of the Traveler.
- Shatter Mesmer has HUGE responsebility, both in using Elite (Moa or Mass Invis), calling out portals and burst coordination. (EG Thief/Mesmer comp)
- Shatter Mesmer has lowest error margin through all meta-builds.
- Shatter Mesmer is easily to be countered and focused upon.
- Shatter Mesmer can turn tide in teamfights.

Conclusion: Playing Shatter Mesmer decently demands skill. While some other meta builds only ask for little knowledge. I do not think Shatter Mesmer should be nerfed.

Points given above are thoughts and experiences from Team Arena.
I barely play Shatter Mesmer, but I do respect good Shatter Mesmers.

All in all, Shatter Mesmer in Team Arena is a high risk = high reward spec.

I agree with this mostly

But lets all not act like in an open field duel off point a shatter mesmer isn’t one of the best specs in game – it has all the tools to avoid damage/conditions

The ability to kite with a shatter mesmer is pretty insane – a warrior will literally not land a single hit using a melee weapon set

If we ever get team death match it will be hilarious when we see how broken stealth and kiting is – Thief and Mesmer are thankfully held back because of capture points

Another player agreeing that shatter is a too op fighter off points and how kite is too strong.

Lets ignore PU and focus in the real cancer build, shatter. PU has almost 0 mobility, takes forever to kill any player, can be ignored, uses so much stealth that will lose the point even if fighting on it. Also PU got Debilitating Dissipation and Prismatic Understanding Nerfed.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

OP.. What does it tell you that not a single person in this thread agreed with you?

Are we all just crazy? It’s us, right? Not you…

First a few replies already agreed with me. Second the forum as devs have previous stated is not enough to represent all the game community. Third I still think shatter mesmer and zerker specs need to be reworked. Out of 8 classes 2 are only good in zerker that is 25% of the classes. Clearly those classes need to have the zerker specs toned down in favor of other specs.

Terrorsquad.2349:

- Shatter Mesmers are one the best in normal 1v1 (offpoint)

Tim.6450:

xDudisx.5914:

No other trait in the game gives so much stats like this one.

Traits ? With the exception of the ones Bhawb gave,no but there are things in this games that give so much stats. Let’s start with might, protection, vulnerability ( in the right settings), banners, frost spirit (in the right settings).

This way offensive builds that invest in crit chance will still have a great bonus crit chance and the bunker ones wont get such a huge advantage.

Uhm in wvvw the meta uses glass canon, necro bunkers are not existant there. Especially necro bunkers with deathly perception.

DS skills criting are also not the biggest problem. The major issue is that it affect wells droped prior to entering in DS and sigil of fire/air. It is basically problem that old lich form had. Maybe the extra crit chance should be add to the DS skill itself and not as base stats.

Uhm, you do realize that sigil of fire/sigil of air can’t crit right? Also offensive wells are on a 28 or 32 second cooldown, and each tick hits just a little bit harder then a scepter auto attack strike without the condition bleed or poison.

1- banners requirer you to stay in a point are not spamable like DS, even if you add both stats it will be less than 1k (170+170 for baners)

2- might = 35 power 35 condi, not even close to 1k

3-vulnerability all classes have access to it. ( the wells is doing a lot of aoe vunerabilty btw)

4-frost spirit, only moves if traited, can be killed. It only works in pve or in an spvp spirit ranger.

5- you can run some pieces of valkyrie or cavalier and still keep the 100% crit chance unlikely any other class. Even on metabattle.com cavalier is listed. Imo full cavalier is not a glass cannon. Specially on a class that has the same hp as a warrior, about 18.5k hp naked.

6- yes they wont crit but this will make they proc everytime they are aot of cd. since all hits will be crit,

If they didnt care about wvw and pve then why do we have some skills with split effects in spvp and wvw/pve ? Like save yourselves, healing dodge, etc.. Why was the 5 target cap implemented since it almost never affects spvp?

I said it is not broken in spvp and pve, but in wvw. Anyway, I think the trait needs a rework.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Thing is, you are going from a perfect scenario, where the Necromancer has DS and people are unable to WASD (Don’t give me the ‘But Ring of Warding’ excuse, because your zerg should’ve brought stability)

By your logic, we should also nerf Spectral Wall because sheep tend to die when near a cliff…
Balancing because of Zergs is stupid anyway since skills either have a cap or are dealt with by the bigger and more competent group…

Well there is a chance that well of corruption will remove your stab, or it was on cd, or something else. Even if you dont stay 6s on it it will probably be hitting other players.

Someone has already posted a nerf request to spectral due to EoTM. But in normal wvw you wont find many cliffs for it to be effective.

IndigoSundown.5419:

What you’ve proposed would affect a tiny amount of the healing in the game. A lot of “healing” skills proc Regeneration. Presumably, those would be unaffected. Just as conditions don’t crit, boons wouldn’t, either. Most skills that affect others can also affect the caster. If those are not affected, what’s left? Can you name one non #6 direct heal skill that only affects others? Off the top of my head, I can’t.

Just split the skill effect when healing you or the other players. Make something like if you recieve from yourself it doesnt count as a crit. Would work in ele water 3, blasting water field, guardian dodge, guardian staff 4, engi bombs, traited necro DS, traited mantras, etc..

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

Conncept.7638:

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

Conncept.7638:

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

Stats are fine how they are right now.

Yes six of the games nine stats ranging from sub-optimal to completely and utterly worthless in nearly all of the games content is totally okay.

You can’t be serious…

I want to see all of that stuff added to the game as well, new classes, weapons, utilities, dungeons and areas, and even the LS, the whole shebang. But there is absolutely no point in adding any of that content without a functional combat system to play through it with.

look buddy, just because you dont know how stats work or how to make builds using the current stats given doesnt mean they are useless…

This is clearly an L2P issue

Lol, I’ve run through nearly every path of every dungeon, all of the games events, world completion, and all of the LS content on what most would dismiss as one of the crummiest condition builds the game has. If anyone here needs to learn to play, it is you, but I doubt that is true of either of us, in reality your need to learn to contribute valuable and logical input over hyperbolic leetspeak.

Yes any build technically ‘works’ in all of the games content, because sadly knowing the content is 99% of the game, making your build meaningless except for getting through content slightly faster, and that is horrible game design. The ability to take a build in to content and complete it does not change how little parts, or even the entire build, contributed to completing said content. If no build matters one way or the other then the build system is just as broken as if only one build mattered. And depending on how you look at it one of those is true.

A build consist of 3 things: Skills/Traits/Stats.
You choose skills that fits your playstyle
You choose traits to enhance your playstyle
You choose stats to suppliment your playstyle.

Your build is based on how you like to play your class and I have 5 builds per class.
I play 8 classes so that’s 40 different builds I have. I’m also working on 2 new builds with Guardian and Warrior so I’ll soon have 42 builds.

Honestly a build system is only broken if you are forced to play 1 way for all contents. The fact that you can make any builds you like and be creative makes the combat exciting. This isn’t like games like WoW where your stuck playing 1 way or the high way. You play it how you want and master it. That’s why I suggested L2P instead.

There is not master when some aspects are completely useless under powered by a lot. Is like saying that you can play in spvp a full signet guardian and “master” it, or a full spirit weapons ele. You will be completly useless because the mechanics are unbalanced extremely against you.

I didnt want to cite wow but as you brought it to the topic, I have to say wow combat system was not bad. Gw2 could copy so much stuff from that game to make our pvp and pve better.

I dont understand why people keep saying l2p. I have freaking full zerker ascended character which I run dungeons with, but I am giving my point of view about what direction the pve balance shold move towards.

A game doesnt having holy trinity does not imply everyone should be 100% dmg oriented. This is a design fault in the dungeons. In fractals and new TA they tried some mechanics to reduce the zerker bias. Recent changes to AC spider, FGS and norn racial nerf, you cant crit teq, etc… show that it is moving to the right direction very slowly

IndigoSundown.5419:

What’s being pointed out is that players do a variety of things in GW2 team play, not that the professions are role-bound. The game was designed so that dedicated roles were not required. I’m sorry you don’t like that, but it is one of the core aspects of game design.

Improve healing wouldnt bount it to a class or another. It would be a change that any class could make use of. It would not force anyone to play it or not.

Burst Precision: only work on adrenaline skills most of them are single target and the aoe ones will hit only up to 5 players

Hidden killer: you will do 1 atk and lose stealth.

Arcane power: if you drop 1 aoe that pulses, with 1 pulse hiting 5 palyers the nex pulse will not be affected by it. Similar to how sigil of intelligence works. 1 aoe will consume all your 5 charges. +all the enemys that you manage to hit with the DS skills.

Precise Strike: again only 1 hit.

*Death Perception: all the wells hits will be affected as long as you stay in DS. Well of suffering pulsing 6 times will hit land up to 30 guarantee critical hits + 25 hits from well of corruption.

zapv.8051:

If this trait was really that strong, power necros would be meta in pvp, and they would also be heavily wanted in dungeons. WvW isn’t a balance concern at all, if it was people wouldn’t have builds that elevate an average player to a 1vs2 pro.

Well this is the Profession Balance section not the spvp one.

*Everyone one knows the op build in spvp is the fearmancer with those passive procs.
People wont stay in your wells because those are small scale fights.

*In dungeons it is not an issue because with fury+banners+ranger spotter people already reach 100% or close to 100% crit chance.

*In wvw it is differente. Because it allows one to have a very high offensive power investing little on it (getting equivalent to 1k precision from 1 trait). They could split the skill in pve and spvp. If it was not so op we would see guilds running an entire build that focus all around in dropping 2 wells.

Guilds run a few necros just because of this combo trait+wells to melt zergs. It is even on metabatle.com

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Category:Meta_Zerg_Builds

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i think death perception is fine as it is now, does not require nerfs.

wells have very long recharge time, the critical damage done by the wells are negligible, plus, wells can be easily avoided by walking away from the wells.

as for sigils of fire and air, they have their own internal recharge times of 5 seconds and 3 seconds, plus 50% to activate during a critical hit, i dun see how this is a problem. this is working as intended.

In spvp I can wells are not a problem, but in wvw we have necro built all around this trait and wells to do high dmg on a zerg. This allow the class to have little investment on precision and still achieve 100% crit chance.

I support the suggestion 1.

The way it works now this trait gives 50% crit chance, this is equivalent +than 1k precision. A single trait giving so many stat points insane. It allows people with 30% to get 100% crit change with fury. No other trait in the game gives so much stats like this one. And it is not like enter in DS is a hard thing to do. It is spamable.

My suggestions:

-Make it increase your crit chance by 50% OF your base crit chance.
For example if you have 40%
40 + (50% of 40) = 40+20 = 60.

This way offensive builds that invest in crit chance will still have a great bonus crit chance and the bunker ones wont get such a huge advantage.

DS skills criting are also not the biggest problem. The major issue is that it affect wells droped prior to entering in DS and sigil of fire/air. It is basically problem that old lich form had. Maybe the extra crit chance should be add to the DS skill itself and not as base stats.

Please keep the discussion constructive, no flame.

People saying mesmer is balance are like the warriors who said old hambow, old sw+dg was fine and balance because they played one. All the classes that someday got a needed nerf were claimed to be balance by the players using it.

Elitist.8701:

Man this guy Dudis is true esports. He probably plays cele mesmer. No I don’t play shatter mesmer. No shatter mesmer is not good at 1v1. No shatter mesmer is not OP or even close to it. No shatter mesmer can’t kill a bunker guard solo. No shatter mesmer does not keep other zerkers out of the meta. Basically everything you have said is a characteristic of the thief class, not mesmer. And neither need a nerf. If this guy isn’t trolling, I don’t know what to say. High risk builds are cancer? OP go play cele ele and then play shatter mes right after. Do you really think mesmer is OP in comparison to ele? Mesmer is easily the worst class right now, and you basically have to build a team around a mesmer because they need maximum protection. You NEED a thief with a mesmer. A class that needs to “be carried” is not OP. Cele ele, a class that carries every fight and every situation, is OP. The reason cele fights take so long isn’t because their doing “magical combos and working together”. It’s because they are all self sustaining bunkers that can kite, DPS, rotate on and off point, have high mobility, and HIGH SUPPORT to keep teamfights going forever. It doesn’t take skill to play such a comp.

If it was so bad would be that had to be carried would be so used in the top teams. It has the most op 1v1 skill in the game moa, it has also the most unique mobility skill in the game: portal.

Celestial staff ele is not as op as a mesmer in a 1v1. And if they go d/d celestial they are semi-melee class, not like the mesmer ranged.

Even the other cheese builds like passive fear terrormancer, turrent engi, MM necro, etc ..are not so toxic to the game as the mesmer is. One thing is win almost all 1v1 and be a slow mobility class. Other completely different is have one of the best mobility and be the king of damage spike.

Dalanor.5387:

xDudisx.5914:

I thought gw2 goal was to let people play the way they want. In this game’s pve I actually have more strict builds than in a holy trinity based game.

That quote is misinterpreted so many times it’s not funny any more … Colin said back in the days that whatever content you play you should be rewarded too no matter what. So play how you want and get rewards for it. And as for the rest i’ll just quote someone else from the dungeon forums.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

I’m getting a little bored of reading the same kitten.
QQ meta players just stack and dps 2 win
QQ no strategy just pure dps
QQ you not l33t you just dps.

If you think a full zerker team can be semi-afk in a dungeon and autowin, then you got carried. You were basically told to just bring dps because they didn’t consider you good enough to be trusted with anything important.

The trinity of
CC
DPS
Support
is very heavily used, and relied upon in small group content.

“ohh boss is dead before he could attack us, no fun QQ”
Did you know someone probably frost bow #5’d or a warrior used mace #5 so the boss didn’t hit you?
Did you know a thief just blinded the mob, or a guardian used zealots defense, timed perfectly?

“it doesn’t matter how long it takes, I still get my loot”
Yes, but you could take 10 minutes, instead of 20, and do something else taking 10 minutes too! ohh, you got twice as much loot? awesome!

“I’m still alive and your not!!”
yeah, but in 10s I did more damage than you did in 2 minutes. If you had the same dps, I wouldn’t be running out of “oh-kitten” buttons.

Very inclined to tell the next person who gives me some excuse along these lines to go get punted like phlunt. – Then again they may not be good enough to do LS and have no idea how fun it is to hate phlunt.

/rant

“pug” is often used as an insulting term. Could we rename them “phlunt”?

I wouldnt call ele using ice bow 5 as a CC class. Your are making a hyperbole. Is like saying guard poping up virtue F2 is a healer class. By that logic a full nomads is also dps. Or a tank in a classic holy trinity game is a dps because it does minimal dmg.

A few weeks ago people also thought FGS and norn elite was fine and working as intended, Turns out that they decided to nerf it to the ground. The game has changed and is changing based on players feedback. I’ve played a lot of other mmorpgs and gw2 has by far the most casual and too easy dungeons. When 1 player can solo or duo a 5 players content it is quite obvious the bosses mechanics are too simple, predictable and easy to counter.

Dondagora.9645:

If the ranger is smart and the bunker is bunking, the ranger should be killing the other 3 from 1500 range, since their whole thing is doing high-burst from afar. If he’s not… well, then that’s just the player not doing a good job.

Also, Dudis, you cannot assume the same skill level makes a fight equal. Skill is only half the battle, the other half being build. If one’s build is better than the others, it will raise the “battle level” of the better build beyond his skill level alone.

Considering one is running a zerker bow ranger the team with 2 already has 50% of it not running a meta build. No a ranger wont be able to kill 3 players from range. Maybe 1 , but not 3. They can reflect, send 1 player to kill the ranger, use line of sight to avoid it, etc… Even if it down 1 the other 2 can ress it. What do you think it’s easier: 1 ranger kill 3 or 3 kill 1 guy sitting in the point?

Kolly.9872:

Zerker specs are the most balanced and fun to play specs of the game. Anything in the game should follow this path.
Nerf celestial, Nerf bunkers, let’s all play high risk high reward instead.

I completely disagree with you. IMO they need to nerf the extremes, like too much offensive zekers and too much defensive unlikable bunkers. Celestial is the way to go. When everyone has similar stats the class balance is easier and more precise. But a bunker is not as much of a problem as the cancer zerker builds. If I wanted to play a game where everyone kills everyone in 5seconds I would be playing a FPS like CoD or BF. In a long fight the player has to do more movements, more combos, has to stay more time without making mistakes.

Elitist.8701:

10/10. 2 pages already, OP is one of the best forum trolls I’ve seen. He is trolling, right?

I can’t be more serious about this issue. The ones that think I am trolling probably main a copy paste shatter mesmer.

KngGilgamesh.3481:

Won’t this just make assassin and zerker stronger?

No because they dont focus in aoe healing skills. The only exception I can remmember now would be guard using virtue F2.

Dalanor.5387:

xDudisx.5914:

Considering that people can solo arah, and some poeple have killed bosses naked of course people will be able to finish it with bad stats. I doesnt mean they dont need improvement.

I’m pretty sure it has more to do with player skill. Very large part of the community is unable to do such things even in berserker gear.

Lol I play a zerk ele and know how easy stuff is on zerk because it is too much effective. People clearing dungeons so fast is one problem in this game. This generate too much gold influx in the economy creating the inflation.

Same as farming bugged events and champions.

Look how the price of some precursors stabilized and even droped after FGS fix.

I doubt it’s even true or if it is, why would be that the cause?

Some bosses die so fast you dont even need to dodge, like AC final boss… you can just walk around.

You can walk around the P1 boss in every gear. Blame the game designers who made the encounters. Again it has nothing to do with the gear. Try to avoid hyperboles and fail statements at the attempts to try to prove you are right.

Again I dont see why people are against buffing other builds that are current useless/subpar.

The only subpar factor is killing time and honestly, why it bothers you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM

Zero effort, just team synergy and good use of builds including passive defense stats. Indeed the run time is higher but casual runs always slower especially with the average random pug.

More on-topic. This change in PvE would make defensive builds even more faceroll than now and it would completely flip the current balance in WvW and sPvP if more heals would fly around.

You are using the example of people failing events to farm to justify ? Anet is trying to fix exploits in events. People just seem to find new events faster than they can fix it.

I dont see how use 1 or 2 dodges or sometimes no dodge at all requires much more skill than try to run it in other gear. Some bosses are actually easier and take less effort to kill in full zerker just by the fact it dies in 2seconds. Example of this is AC p2 final boss. In full zerker my group will melt it in 1 trap. A normal comp will have to use + than 1 trap and will be harder, take more skill to do so. Again in spvp the only amulet that has healing power+precision+ferocity is celestial all the others would suffer minor changes. In wvw people would still keep runing soldier, maybe 1 or 2 would run a squishy healer.

People like to overestimate how hard is to play zerker. With a few exceptions it is easy because it kill the boss too fast before it can cast his big hits.

Implement critical heals wouldt change the fact a non zerker party is slower than a zerker one. It would give life quality improvement to other specs. Why would that be a problem for you? I doest affect the way you play, are you so mad that other players will be able to run other way? For me looks like your way of thinking is “if it is not what I play it doen’t need attention”.

I thought gw2 goal was to let people play the way they want. In this game’s pve I actually have more strict builds than in a holy trinity based game.

So you have 1v3 at the point+1 ranger. It is a 2v3. The team with 3 should win considering all 5 players have the same skill lvl.

-RNG

-no critical heals in the game

-shatter mesmer

Sagat.3285:

Are you guys done playing rock,paper,scissors?

Yes but apparently mesmer is the scissor made of adamantium. Cuts paper and cant be destroyed by rock

Dalanor.5387:

xDudisx.5914:

Are you trolling? In pve anything other than zerker and assassins is useless. In spvp almost all classes are either celestial or soldier or zerker. In wvw zerg is all about soldier classes.

Ask for changes in the game is completely valid. Lol if everything was perfect and 100% ok why did we get so many changes during the last 2 years? The game needs to keep mutating and innovating.

Other stats aren’t useless, just need to be used effectively as well as berserkers.
Watch it and educate yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM

Sagat.3285:

The idea of zerk should rule is bad design just like the players who wish condition damage wasn’t a stat.

That build type just does what it should do. Burn down mobs and protect them with active defenses and proper skill uses. If you prefer facetanking watch the video above or play another game.

ps: can we avoid this weekly zerker bashing non-sense please?

Considering that people can solo arah, and some poeple have killed bosses naked of course people will be able to finish it with bad stats. I doesnt mean they dont need improvement.

Lol I play a zerk ele and know how easy stuff is on zerk because it is too much effective. People clearing dungeons so fast is one problem in this game. This generate too much gold influx in the economy creating the inflation. Look how the price of some precursors stabilized and even droped after FGS fix. Some bosses die so fast you dont even need to dodge, like AC final boss… you can just walk around.

Again I dont see why people are against buffing other builds that are current useless/subpar.