Guild Wars 2

oZii.2864:

xiv.7136:

oZii.2864:

xiv.7136:

Dual.8953:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

Go roll an S/D Thief. Go to Orr and Twilight Arbor, and don’t die while engaging the enemies as if you were a Warrior. Bar yourself from using CnD and record it. Then I’ll lower my stance on stealth.

A picture of my 80 thief (sexy eh), full exo multiple sets all weapons

Orr and TA, please. PVE is hard yo.

Stealth does need a nerf.

Really posting a picture of your gear proves that Thief is great in PvE? When was the last time you saw a post about a class being overpowered in PvE? That doesn’t mean that there aren’t classes that are far better at PvE.

I don’t take my thief into dungeons cause my mesmer is 10x better.

My point was who cares about PVE.

Yeah.

This is why you your statements hold no weight. You can’t seriously think you add anything to a debate about any topic when you say you don’t care about a major part of the game that shows your ignorance.

All you care about is the part of guild wars 2 that concerns you so there for you want balance or anything else to do with the game to revolve around your needs even if it happens at the expense of others. You probably think everyone that has a thief character only plays sPvP and WvW.

So your defense of stealth is that thieves need it for PVE?

Really?

Leo G.4501:

If I were aid the warrior, I’d add to all the burst skills a special boost depending on the Grandmaster traits you pick (would make it tough to choose which) and flavored to their trait tree:

Strength tree – Grandmaster Trait: Berserker’s Burst (replaces Berserker’s Might)
Activate Berserker Stance upon gaining 5 stacks of might. Powers up Burst skills. Makes burst skills more condition centric to apply pressure.
Sword Burst = Malign Flurry Adds a 600 range buff to you and 5 allies that improves condition duration by 25% for 15sec
Greatsword Burst = Bloody Slice For every boon on the target, apply 5 stacks of bleeding.
Mace Burst = Skull Crush For every condition on the target, apply an extra second of stun (max of 3 extra seconds)

Arms Tree – Grandmaster Trait: Furious Burst (replaces Furious)
Critical hits grant extra adrenaline. Intensifies Burst Skills.
Focuses on attacking more and faster to deal extra hits.
Sword Burst = Intense Flurry Strike an additional 2 times and stack 2 more bleeds on your foes.
Greatsword Burst = Flashing Arc Slice 2x faster than Arcing Slice and will always crit.
Mace Burst = Grazing Skull Crack If the target is not stunned, instantly get back 5 strikes of adrenaline and Grazing Skull Crack recharges in 3 seconds.

Defense Tree – Grandmaster Trait: Spiked Soldier (replaces Spiked Armor)
Gain 5sec of Retaliation upon receiving a critical hit. Fortifies Burst Skills.
This makes burst skills more defensive in nature.
Sword Burst = Meditative Flurry Take 50% less damage while channeling this skill.
Greatsword Burst = Sweeping Arc Slice Blocks attacks for 1 1/2 sec.
Mace = Punishing Skull Blow Removes 1 condition per adrenaline bar.

Tactics Tree – Doesn’t get one :P

Discipline Tree – Grandmaster Trait: Adrenaline Bursts (replaces Adrenal Reserves)
Burst skills cost less. Breaks the limits of Burst Skills.
Focuses on improving the utility of burst skills.
Sword Burst = Expert Flurry Reflects projectiles for 2 seconds.
Greatsword Burst = Expert Tower Slice Steal a boon from the target for each bar of adrenaline.
Mace Burst = Expert Skull Crush Target receives special bump on the head. Target randomly receives bleeding(x2), blind, confuse(x2), daze every 3 seconds for 6 seconds.

Just examples. I’d imagine with the Defense Tree using Axe Burst, it’d become an evade or grant Vigor per target hit with Hammer to help you be more defensive by exploiting bursts. While in the discipline line, abilities warrior normally doesn’t have like extra conditions, boon stripping and more mobility (longer leaps) would be its theme…you get the idea.

These are actually pretty good ideas.

Improving bursts depending on trait lines. Easy to balance too since it’s top tier traits.

Also get a fix on that ridiculous 3% increase to burst abilities from bottom tree. Make it cooldown reduction or something.

oZii.2864:

xiv.7136:

Dual.8953:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

Go roll an S/D Thief. Go to Orr and Twilight Arbor, and don’t die while engaging the enemies as if you were a Warrior. Bar yourself from using CnD and record it. Then I’ll lower my stance on stealth.

A picture of my 80 thief (sexy eh), full exo multiple sets all weapons

Orr and TA, please. PVE is hard yo.

Stealth does need a nerf.

Really posting a picture of your gear proves that Thief is great in PvE? When was the last time you saw a post about a class being overpowered in PvE? That doesn’t mean that there aren’t classes that are far better at PvE.

I don’t take my thief into dungeons cause my mesmer is 10x better.

My point was who cares about PVE.

Yeah.

oZii.2864:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

This is a vacuum comparison between thief and necro. Many classes have abilities that are available only to them or they specialize in that isn’t something has to be accessed by F1. Everyone knows necro’s specialize in conditions they have traits revolved around it, same with rangers and pets, thieves and stealth, mesmers and clones every class has a specialized trait tree but you want to say that it isn’t apart of the class mechanic?

A part. Stealth isn’t the whole class mechanic. Just like fear isn’t the whole class mechanic of the necro which is also about conditions, minions, DS, etc, and clones aren’t the whole class mechanic of the mesmer which is also about shatters, confusion, stealth, ethereal fields etc – all depending how you trait. So it goes with thieves and stealth.

A necessary toning down of stealth will not destroy the class.

Dual.8953:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

Go roll an S/D Thief. Go to Orr and Twilight Arbor, and don’t die while engaging the enemies as if you were a Warrior. Bar yourself from using CnD and record it. Then I’ll lower my stance on stealth.

A picture of my 80 thief (sexy eh), full exo multiple sets all weapons

Orr and TA, please. PVE is hard yo.

Stealth does need a nerf.

knight.4379:

Looking from a character’s point of view, thieves are supposed to strike from the shadows and ambush quickly and effectively. If stealth is nerfed don’t we lose a bit of what the thief stands for? We are meant to have a play style regarding thieving and stealth. Not face tanking with daggers.

According to that logic, warriors are meant to be high damage in a sturdy body, so they should 1-shot everything while having 3.5k armor baseline?

Of course not. There are degrees, and stealth is too strong by some degrees, and thus needs to be toned down.

I play LoL also, but I find GW2 more fun to watch.

I also find GW2 very fun to play.

GW2 viewership is just low for now, and it’s lacking in esports features. MM and ELO, spectator mode etc.

The main thing an aspiring esport needs is lots of players and thus lots of viewers. Making a free downloadable version of s/tPVP with gem store purchases would massively increase the playerbase and thus the viewership, but this isn’t required.

What is definitely required is the basic features of e-sports, quickly.

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

The 1 most important thing about a good commander, and most often overlooked:

Showing up consistently

This is a lot harder than it appears, and it’s actually very draining in time and effort. The truly great commanders will commit to doing this, the rest will not or won’t be able to.

It’s no good to be a 2-hour a day commander who only shows up in the hours of 2-4PM. It’s no good to be a “fair weather” commander who only shows up at prime time to lead a zerg of players who may already be leading the map.

The key is to sustain activity and be consistent, win or lose, hour after hour and day after day.

To be there talking in chat, providing an icon to be followed – simply put, just showing up consistently.

And yeah, it’s impossible to do for someone who doesn’t have a lot of time to devote to the game.

It also requires total commitment to helping PUGs and strangers who quite frankly often don’t show enough appreciation or skill to deserve it, and to do so day after day, while remaining as positive and decisive as possible.

That’s why the truly great commander deserves the title of “PUG Jesus” – they are the best of us, and they sacrifice a lot to help everyone.

Cherish them, for they are not many, if any.

You know the answer.

Joshiasi.2840:

xiv.7136:

Joshiasi.2840:

xiv.7136:

Joshiasi.2840:

I would trade all my stealth utility for 1 perma stealth until you attack like in other MMOs!! I could finally have a reason to use other utility skills other than the usual blinding powder and refuge!!

Surely not.

I play a thief, and giving up all our current stealth tools for 1 perma stealth with a long cooldown would be a huge nerf.

Stealth needs a nerf but not that big a nerf.

Well if the cd will be long like 2-3 mins then its a no go. 1 min cd max is fine as you can walk around wvwvw or pve with ease since you can never be detected and just attack whoever you choose without fear of going out of stealth in a matter of seconds.

I think having a perma stealth skill will be more OP than the current stealth system that we have since hiding inside enemy keeps will be much easier and just following enemy zergs to scout their movements along side them without them realizing you are there will have huge implications in wvwvw. And who would not want just going into maps to complete their world completions perma stealthed without having to deal with aggros! :P

You won’t be able to restealth, at all, for 1 entire minute, after engaging.

Do you play a thief? That would invalidate an entire trait line, and mess with several others.

I think stealth needs to be nerfed, but not that hard.

Just like many MMOs out there. So you have to be smart when to engage. I mean you can be invisible while the skill cd is running and engage when the cd is up so you can hit then re-use the stealth skill to run away. The 1 min I mentioned in my comment is the CD and in no way I mention not being able to restealth in 1 min after engaging.

I do play a thief FYI. I run a 10/30/30/0/0 d/p + sb build that relies on mobility.

OK you make a fair point, but there would still need to be a rework of a lot of traits. Possible though.

There is the idea of giving visual feedback of hits while in stealth, so you would still get numbers or something.

Guardians are the new warriors – high cleave damage, great support, food still works. Now with bonus retal, prot, regen, aegis, stability and better healing!

You will lose a bit of dps, but 4 guardian 1 mesmer was already godly and only marginally slower.

Mesket.5728:

xiv.7136:

Mesket.5728:

xiv.7136:

Mesket.5728:

Skamlic.8041:

Mesket.5728:

. . .

Let’s move away from your warrior. Tell me Mesket. Are you truly happy with the current state of warriors and changes they have made since launch?

Read Arenanet’s description of warrior and apply it to average warrior in game. Does it match? I’m happy that you don’t have problems, but many of us do. So are we delusional?

I didn’t summon the delusional word here…

Yes, I’m happy with my warrior. Of course there is room for improvement but I think warriors are a very successful at DPS and Tanking.

The site describes us very well, I rely on armor and health +regens (no, not banners lol) and have my set of utilities to back that up.

If I have to cast my opinion on where do warriors have more room for improvement, I’ll say stances… they are weak and have long cooldowns for short durations. Frenzy for example… why do we have to receive double damage to get the same buff others get freely? This is the kind of things I would say warriors can do better. Balanced Stance? I know is very popular, but why use it while you have Dolyak Signet? its almost the same stability duration with almost the same cooldown but the signet provides me a constant +100 toughness while unused. That sounds like a rushed skill without second look.

Overall I think the warrior are in a very good shape. Many were hit by the omnom nerf but other classes were hit as well. Do you think thiefs are not crying over this?

You’re wrong.

I would explain why but you would just report my post again.

Enlighten us with your wisdom, without being personal or insulting and you won’t be reported. Though your complains doesn’t make you look like a very successful warrior to begin with (you might prove us wrong) and probably will not really take into account. But go ahead, the internet is willing to learn from you.

I’d rather not get reported by you again so I’m just going to say you’re wrong, again, and leave it at that.

Good day.

Ok, seems that you have the power to set right and wrong over the internet but not to play a warrior without the feeling the come here and complain or give valid arguments rich on evidence. Fair enough.

---

Back to topic

I still think Warriors are fine and if any, what makes warrior complain at the end is that other classes have OP mechanics. Thousands of Warriors are out there completing the game content without problem. If tPVP bugs you, make sure you address the issue properly instead of saying we are “broken” cause honestly we are not.

No. You’re wrong, again.

Joshiasi.2840:

xiv.7136:

Joshiasi.2840:

I would trade all my stealth utility for 1 perma stealth until you attack like in other MMOs!! I could finally have a reason to use other utility skills other than the usual blinding powder and refuge!!

Surely not.

I play a thief, and giving up all our current stealth tools for 1 perma stealth with a long cooldown would be a huge nerf.

Stealth needs a nerf but not that big a nerf.

Well if the cd will be long like 2-3 mins then its a no go. 1 min cd max is fine as you can walk around wvwvw or pve with ease since you can never be detected and just attack whoever you choose without fear of going out of stealth in a matter of seconds.

I think having a perma stealth skill will be more OP than the current stealth system that we have since hiding inside enemy keeps will be much easier and just following enemy zergs to scout their movements along side them without them realizing you are there will have huge implications in wvwvw. And who would not want just going into maps to complete their world completions perma stealthed without having to deal with aggros! :P

You won’t be able to restealth, at all, for 1 entire minute, after engaging.

Do you play a thief? That would invalidate an entire trait line, and mess with several others.

I think stealth needs to be nerfed, but not that hard.

Iavra.8510:

High Damage + Heavy Healing + Survivability and Protection with heavy condition removal (which warriors lack.) and the nice 15% damage reduction signet, cure 3 conditions every 10 seconds.

You should have mention the low hp pool and lack of basically any kind of CC or escape moves. The way you are writing, any class is better than the one you are currently playing

Just revisited my guardian now.

Quite amazing really.

It’s much, much stronger than warrior at bunkering/tanking and support.

The shouts are stronger, the damage reduction signet is stronger, better condition removal, better self and group healing, retaliation aegis prot regen etc for everyone, and even decent combo field spammage with hammer 2. It’s beautiful.

But everyone knows that.

Mesket.5728:

xiv.7136:

Mesket.5728:

Skamlic.8041:

Mesket.5728:

. . .

Let’s move away from your warrior. Tell me Mesket. Are you truly happy with the current state of warriors and changes they have made since launch?

Read Arenanet’s description of warrior and apply it to average warrior in game. Does it match? I’m happy that you don’t have problems, but many of us do. So are we delusional?

I didn’t summon the delusional word here…

Yes, I’m happy with my warrior. Of course there is room for improvement but I think warriors are a very successful at DPS and Tanking.

The site describes us very well, I rely on armor and health +regens (no, not banners lol) and have my set of utilities to back that up.

If I have to cast my opinion on where do warriors have more room for improvement, I’ll say stances… they are weak and have long cooldowns for short durations. Frenzy for example… why do we have to receive double damage to get the same buff others get freely? This is the kind of things I would say warriors can do better. Balanced Stance? I know is very popular, but why use it while you have Dolyak Signet? its almost the same stability duration with almost the same cooldown but the signet provides me a constant +100 toughness while unused. That sounds like a rushed skill without second look.

Overall I think the warrior are in a very good shape. Many were hit by the omnom nerf but other classes were hit as well. Do you think thiefs are not crying over this?

You’re wrong.

I would explain why but you would just report my post again.

Enlighten us with your wisdom, without being personal or insulting and you won’t be reported. Though your complains doesn’t make you look like a very successful warrior to begin with (you might prove us wrong) and probably will not really take into account. But go ahead, the internet is willing to learn from you.

I’d rather not get reported by you again so I’m just going to say you’re wrong, again, and leave it at that.

Good day.

Joshiasi.2840:

I would trade all my stealth utility for 1 perma stealth until you attack like in other MMOs!! I could finally have a reason to use other utility skills other than the usual blinding powder and refuge!!

Surely not.

I play a thief, and giving up all our current stealth tools for 1 perma stealth with a long cooldown would be a huge nerf.

Stealth needs a nerf but not that big a nerf.

Thanks.

I wouldn’t say no to more stuff like visible ratings, spectator mode etc also – but I think we can wait for early March for these.

But I do think a few more balance changes are urgent enough to request a possible 2nd patch this week.

Mesket.5728:

Skamlic.8041:

Mesket.5728:

. . .

Let’s move away from your warrior. Tell me Mesket. Are you truly happy with the current state of warriors and changes they have made since launch?

Read Arenanet’s description of warrior and apply it to average warrior in game. Does it match? I’m happy that you don’t have problems, but many of us do. So are we delusional?

I didn’t summon the delusional word here…

Yes, I’m happy with my warrior. Of course there is room for improvement but I think warriors are a very successful at DPS and Tanking.

The site describes us very well, I rely on armor and health +regens (no, not banners lol) and have my set of utilities to back that up.

If I have to cast my opinion on where do warriors have more room for improvement, I’ll say stances… they are weak and have long cooldowns for short durations. Frenzy for example… why do we have to receive double damage to get the same buff others get freely? This is the kind of things I would say warriors can do better. Balanced Stance? I know is very popular, but why use it while you have Dolyak Signet? its almost the same stability duration with almost the same cooldown but the signet provides me a constant +100 toughness while unused. That sounds like a rushed skill without second look.

Overall I think the warrior are in a very good shape. Many were hit by the omnom nerf but other classes were hit as well. Do you think thiefs are not crying over this?

You’re wrong.

I would explain why but you would just report my post again.

Dolyak signet is garbage.

Apparently I can’t explain why or someone reports my post.

I think it’s obvious you guys need to do more balance changes.

The reaction to the patch hasn’t been what you guys wanted, and that’s mainly because it just wasn’t enough. People were expecting more, and I think it’s fair to say they deserved more.

Although we can all agree the principle of making careful balance changes is important, right now we need to see more action rather than less, and it would be good to see that quickly in order to restore confidence in the future of s/tPVP.

To achieve this, a 2nd balance patch on Friday this week would help immensely, something that would actually alter the current meta, and shake things up.

Certainly putting in the additional notes that weren’t included in the patch notes for this patch (stuff like the D/D ele changes) but also a few additional things that perhaps you thought you would take some more time on, but really could be put in right away.

There is a time for sitting back and being careful and not shift the meta.

Then too, sometimes you really gotta take action, and be swift and responsive to the wishes of the players, which you are already aware of.

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy96IsNrMa0

This is an example of why stealth needs a nerf.

This is me on my thief.

Agreed.

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy96IsNrMa0

Example of my thief abusing the crap out of stealth.

I play a thief as well (D/D rather than P/D though)

And I agree.

Stealth does need to be nerfed in some way, it’s pretty ridiculous and has been for a very long time.

Wreckdum.8367:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArWxfaeeYu4

Edit: Look how excited at the end he is that he 1v1’d me. lol

I did come close to winning that player vs air battle though by dropping stuns and knockbacks on…. nothing and hoping he was there. Awesome game ANet. Very fun for both parties involved!

yeah that is pretty ridiculous actually

oh well looks like that’s that

Braxxus.2904:

Latexflame.3108:

I was think of a tankish what would i need to have in order to achieve this??

Reroll guardian.
/15charohyeshedid

Pretty much this.

I probably would.

I feel like I’m getting so much good entertainment from GW2 for so cheap, it’s kind of ridiculous actually.

I’d spend more in the gem store but I’m not into a lot of the stuff in there, I just play for the best gameplay and PVP.

LordSlack.4685:

Wow, the jury makes a decision based on 3 whole pages of forum posts.

It’s really 3 pages of dedicated PVP players – and not by people obsessed with their HB crits on mobs in PVE.

The survey wasn’t done on the general forum.

Blakey.5670:

I understand there are balance issues, but i hear alot of globalization- minded cries.
The classes should be different. ALOT different. They are…kinda.

Making every movement skill the same is gonna dumb down the game.

It’s ok that warriors are gimped with CC more then other, they are more beastly to compensate. The lower classes and builds should be pumped up abit, and everything is gonna be just A-ok.

Warrior is the weakest PVP class.

If anything they should be boosted the most.

CookMETEnder.7582:

“Base armor and HP Make no difference to survivability”
Idiotic assumption. That make a HUGE difference. It’s simply that stun, gap closer, and condition removal are of higher priority.

Base armor and HP make no difference. Access to protection and regen boons alone outweigh by far the HP and armor difference between a warrior and guardian/ele

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-s;9;9;9;19;40A

all gear power/precision, greatsword, all non-weapon slots are signets, go crit everything, come back and ask again at level 60 or so

doing wvw at low level will get you killed, a lot

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List/first

From this thread, it is obvious that warrior is considered at a disadvantage against every other class. The consensus was also clear that D/D ele was the strongest overall class.

Comparing and contrasting the two, we can make a few deductions:

• Base armor and HP make no difference to survivability:*

ele’s have the lowest base HP and armor yet are considered the most survivable class, with warriors being considered the least survivable

• Mobility, evades and boons are hugely important to viability:*

Warrior’s boons almost entirely center around might, fury and swiftness, with a side of vigor tied to one weapon. Meanwhile the strong classes have strong access to a variety of boons, most importantly regen and protection, to the point where these seem almost a requirement.

Warrior does not lack in mobility on paper with GS/swordX but without viable condition removal and gap closers affected by chills/cripples, this is not the case in reality.

But the combination of mobility, immunities and boons is also the problem causing the perceived OPness of D/D eles.

We have to also consider the unique things warriors have:

- shouts: guardians’ shouts are frankly better
- immobilises: really?
- stuns: maybe, but it doesn’t seem to have helped
- burst: predictable and thus avoidable static burst without escapes is not good enough
- stances: these could definitely use some cooldown reductions and maybe some unikittenfects

- banners: here we go

Maybe we need to look at banners again.

Make something out of those, and tie them meaningfully to warrior mechanics and gameplay. Maybe tie their effects to adrenaline or make them encourage the spending of adrenaline by unleashing effects when adrenaline abilities are used.

As it stands, banners are unwieldy and static. What could be done to make them more engaging:

- Banners create combo fields when adrenaline is spent
- Banners give distortion / stealth when adrenaline is spent
- Banners can be activated by friendlies to cause aoe CC or even as teleport points

Crossaber.8934:

“Stay in formation!”, with PBAoE buff, 60sec CD

10sec protection, 10sec retaliation, 3sec stability

or

“Keep moving!”, with PBAoE buff, 60sec CD

20sec Vigor, 20sec swiftness, 5sec stability

The funny part is these sound like basic guardian shouts.

Laika.8795:

I also have a thief buddy. Me.

And guess what? I avoid the backstab in a Mug>Immo>C&D>BS chain at least 80% of the time.

Guess that means it’s a l2p thing, huh?

http://youtu.be/u55vHURPQSw?t=2m9s

Because it’s fun.

That’s pretty much the only reason – and a completely sufficient one.

There’s really no such thing as rewards in a MMO. You can’t pay the rent with your gear tokens or your new shiny sword.

The problem is not the instagib. That’s just glass cannon, and lots of specs can glass cannon.

The problem is the stealth, it gives too much survivability, and too many outs for bad players who make mistakes.

Most glass cannons blow their load and then are in trouble because they are vulnerable and lack survivability.

Thieves go stealth, eles RTL away and mesmers evade/clone out. These 3 classes have too easy access to escapes, and this is the problem.

Skorn.4906:

xiv.7136:

kill shot:

- 2s cast time of obvious animation of a guy crouching and pointing his gun at you (from 1k range)
- not 100% crit chance(but has a +9% crit rate modifier and a +12% damage modifier)
- 10s cooldown(8s traited)
- requires full adrenaline (build in combat, or instantly with the use of heal/utility. i.e- takes less than skill cd)

backstab:

- done by someone who is invisible(in melee range, has to be from behind)
- no build up time or pre-combat requirement(except stealthing, placing yourself behind the target in melee range, and hoping he won’t turn around; or using the burst chain of 4 skills which you can stun break out of)
- 100% crit chance (with a trait that most thieves choose to ignore)
- no cooldown (on the skill. but 45s cooldown on the burst chain)
- no initiative cost(for the skill; but 6+ initiative / utility use to stealth)

edited for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru_rXq2LYg0

November 2012 video showing single crit cuts against sub-80s while hiding in a zerg

Try doing this with kill shot:

http://youtu.be/jHOpACoX4ic

Solo vs zerg, uninterrupted footage, kills 30+ by chaining backstabs and stealthed stomps without getting killed once – again, ALL of it while utterly surrounded by hostile players.

Thieves who compare kill shot builds with backstab builds have no clue how to play a thief properly.

The difference in actual gameplay viability and killing ability in any situation is night and day.

kill shot:

- 2s cast time of obvious animation of a guy crouching and pointing his gun at you
- not 100% crit chance
- 10s cooldown
- requires full adrenaline (build in combat)

backstab:

- done by someone who is invisible
- no build up time or pre-combat requirement
- 100% crit chance
- no cooldown
- no initiative cost

Just a screenshot of the first page of the wvw forum.

Notice that none of those threads were started by Columba. Nor by me for that matter.

Many people are complaining about thieves, specifically about stealth.

It not only breaks some other overall game mechanics like keep capture etc, but it provides the thief with the ability to make several mistakes and keep resetting the fight until it goes their way. D/D eles have this problem also, as do mesmers.

It’s too noob-friendly, and it makes other classes wonder why they don’t have such easy and uncounterable disengages at their disposal.

I play a thief. I play it a lot, in every part of the game.

Stealth is OP.

It makes recovering from mistakes too easy, and makes bad players think they’re good.

Other changes can come, like more group utility or more survivability out of stealth. But stealth itself does need a nerf.

A lot of classes can do instagibs.

Only one can do it while invisible.

Honestly, a lot of disingenuous thieves in here. Stop hanging on to OP mechanics. Thief is too forgiving for bad players, because it has too many outs with stealth.

I play a thief and along with D/D ele and shatter mesmer, I feel like a total god when doing so, because it’s OP.

I also play guardian bunker (slightly OP) and warrior (not OP). I’ve also played necro and engi, much more reasonable and balanced classes.

The OP stuff comes in 2 varieties:

a) too much damage avoidance (ele, mesmer, thief)
b) too much sustain (ele, slightly guardian)

I think agony is perfect for what it does.

Let’s try to clarify what people mean here:

a) do you want a gear grind with stat increases and endless gear inflation?

→ if yes, play a different game
→ if no, go to b)

b) so you don’t want a gear grind, but do you want PVE progression and a sense of achievement?

→ if no, go to c)
→ if yes, go to d)

c) So you don’t want PVE progression. You’re happy chilling, doing dungeons, or maybe your main focus is wvw or s/tpvp. This is what the game is built on. Enjoy and congrats, you are home!

d) So you do want PVE progression but you don’t want stat inflation and gear grind. What do you want for your progression?

→ new skins, vanity items, and the pleasure of doing hard PVE, go to e)
→ gating of content so only pro PVEers have access to the hardest content, go to f)

e) fractals provide unique skins and increasing difficulty as you go up the levels, with increased damage/healing requirements and more mechanics. You also get to look all shiny with those backpieces and weapon skins. Congrats, you are home!

f) Only high level people can complete the highest level fractals. These have greater agony requirements, so they are gated by agony resistance. Agony resistance doesn’t imbalance the rest of the game, but ensures only you pro agony resist holders can complete the content. Congrats, you’re home!

Engineer should definitely get a lightning field, it would fit the class.

Maybe exploding/overcharging a turret or mechanical device.

The oil field thing is way OP though.

Shouts feel supportive though, should be something for the group, and likely something boon related due to the trait line.

Nicely done, though you gotta admit that is pretty cheesy

Oglaf.1074:

xiv.7136:

Stability is a beautiful thing. Feels like a very warrior-y boon. It’s just a bit of a shame guardians are better at providing it.

If only our big-shot Stability ability (Rampage) didn’t suck so much.

Some other guy suggested making an elite shout. Maybe something to replace Rampage, similar but better.

Rampage
(shout)
stability 20s
Increase all damage done by you and nearby allies by 20%
60s cd

Too good?

The cooldown is 90 seconds, which is long.

Activating balanced stance does not trigger the cooldown on last stand, this was fixed.

PS: Dolyak runes are garbage.

Human thief.

Female.

With that specific armor set.

You know.

Yukishiro.8792:

Shanna.4762:

It’s not really brilliant, this was unpopular in LOTRO, so much so that they removed it and I think effectively the same system was tried in other games and removed because it was annoying and unpopular.

The problem is it is TOO brilliant. It exposes the lie at the heart of vertical progression schemes too obviously.

Verti progressional people WANT power creep. They WANT to be able to lord it over the plebs. This is what keeps them going, not being able to do the same dungeon with a higher level of agony so they can farm more agony gear so they can do the same dungeon with higher tuned numbers.

I think this is true.

In which case, GW2 gets it right.

If people really just want to lord it over people with lesser gear in PVP, then they can go elsewhere. Or stay and show that what they really want is skill-based progression for PVE.

Either way, the current system is correct.