Guild Wars 2

I love P/D builds as well. :) I typically run P/D + D/D, so I have Deathblossom to stack on top on Caltrops for point harassment. It’s not an evade build, but it has its moments.

As with anything, any videos created for the Thief community are good additions, so make with the recording. I know I would be interested in watching. xD

Stratos.4906:

DanH.5879:

conditions will always suck because skills as:
convert all conditions to boons
remove all conditions field
etc. etc.

This. I am in the process of changing my gear due to the ease of condition removal. It’s just too easy to mitigate the condition damage now. It was prevalent before but I am seeing my bleeds and poisons cleansed faster than ever. I will stick with p/d or go p/p but I am going to move away from focusing on condition damage.

Is that to say you are going to focus on more of a critical/power build? I would be interested in seeing what you come up with in that respect.

In PvP, if any pets, clones, phantasms, or (pet) thieves had you previously targeted in PvP, they do not drop target when you stealth.

They will behave just like PvE mobs, re-acquiring you immediately as a target and attacking once you come out of stealth in downed.

rogerwilko.6895:

Thief has a trait that purges the cripple when they dodge.
Is that a normal trait choice for WvW thieves?
Thx.

You are referring to:
Fleet of Foot, Acrobatics: 20
Dodging removes cripple and weakness from you. (10s cooldown)

I think most Thieves tend not to trait for it, either because it seems better suited for an evade based build (condition or otherwise) or there are other better Acrobatics traits.

Thief isn’t shock and awe. Thief is a precision strike. (Pun may or may not be intended).

I think you answered your own questions when you said “boatload of snares”. Depending on his stunbreaker(s) + cooldown(s), that will typically do it.

This is near identical to Trippseeker’s Condition Dodger, save for one or two differences. It highly depends on the tPvP team comp (theirs and yours). It would be nice to see condition thieves get some more love.

Trippseeker
GW2 pvp thief dodger part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPols-vShvM

Yeah, well, that’s, just, like, your opinion, man.

I have been playing Condition P/D exclusively for about a month now. Mostly it was to do something different (in sPvP), then it turned into (desperate) attempts to bridge the gap between direct damage and condition damage. Then it evolved into running mostly direct/critical damage with a side of light condition damage. Sure, my survivability was kitten, but Sneak Attacks were fun (especially with Runes of the Thief).

With the recent changes, I’m trying things all over again.

Some of the recent changes help slightly for P/D condition, but in the end, we all know Vital Shot needs a buff, and Body Shot as well (and not the one it received).

Updated Sleight of Hand + Hidden Thief can be useful (and more Poison cover if Serpent’s Touch is traited).

I was able to get up to a 7 second duration Torment (lots of +% Poison/Condition Duration) with Sigils of Doom on P/D + P/D as a method to have constant cover for bleeds. However, with that, you lose out on most of Shadow Arts.

And why do +% damage bonuses (traits, runes) no affect DoT damage? Too overpowered?

And I wish Condition Duration was moved to Trickery and Condition Damage was moved to Deadly Arts. xD

We have Torment now, right?! Our mobility must be increased if the target’s mobility has the potential to be decreased (because they would take damage during it).

Or enemies could just not care, or so it seems…. as I’ve found out in using Skale Venom in sPvP, lol. It’s another cover for bleeds (as P/D) with some damage tied to it.

Asomal.6453:

Ricochet works better with P/D now. Add Signet of Malice buff and maybe the new torment thing (and of course DB for D/D users). Maybe we have a new condition meta? (I doubt, people are stubborn when it comes to changing builds :P)

Hide in Shadows still a better option for wiping conditions + stealthed Pistol 1. :(

source:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013

Thief:

• Lotus Strike: Increased the poison duration from 2 seconds to 4 seconds.
• Shadow Trap: Increased the recharge to 45 seconds.
• Destroy Shadow Trap: This ability now teleports the thief back to the trap location when it is destroyed. Added range skill facts. This skill now breaks stuns. Using this skill puts Shadow Trap on recharge.
• Shadow Pursuit: This ability now grants fury and 10 stacks of might for 5 seconds along with stealth when used to teleport to the enemy who triggered Shadow Trap. This ability now breaks stuns. Using this skill puts Shadow Trap on recharge.
• Death Blossom: This trait now costs 4 initiative.
• Body Shot: Reduced the aftercast by .4 seconds. Decreased the vulnerability duration to 3 seconds. Increased to 10 stacks for vulnerability.
• Pistol Whip: Decreased the time between the stun and the sword flurry.
• Scorpion Wire: Decreased the aftercast by .2 seconds. Reduced the cooldown to 20 seconds.
• Signet of Malice: Increased the base heal by 33% of the passive ability.
• Steal: Reduced the recharge to 35 seconds.
• Cluster Bomb: Decreased the range set from 1200 to 900.
• Larcenous Strike: Increased the initiative cost to 2.
• Nine Tailed Strike: Increased the initiative cost from 3 to 5.
• Shadow Assault: Increased the initiative cost from 5 to 7.
• The Ripper: Increased the bleed duration from 5 seconds to 7 seconds.
• Deadly Strike:. Increased the damage from 1 to 1.2.
• Skale Venom: Replaced weakness with torment.
• Dancing Dagger: Reduced the initiative cost to 3.
• Shadow Return (Infiltrator Strike Toggle): This skill is no longer a stun breaker.
• Withdraw: The travel distance underwater has been cut in half to match the land distance.

Acrobatics

• Assassin’s Retreat: This trait now grants 10 seconds of swiftness when players kill a foe. This effect has a 5-second internal cooldown.
• Pain Response: Reduced the cooldown from 45 seconds to 30 seconds.
• Hard to Catch: Reduced the cooldown from 60 seconds to 30 seconds.

Critical Strikes

• Furious Retaliation: This trait now grants 10 seconds of fury when striking a target whose health is below 50%. This effect can only occur once every 30 seconds.
• Signets of Power: The 5 stacks of might that this trait grants have been increased to 10 seconds.

Deadly Arts

• Corrosive Traps: This trait now grants 5 stacks of vulnerability for 8 seconds (up from 5 seconds).
• Sundering Strikes: Vulnerability caused by this trait has been increased from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
• Panic Strike: Reduced the cooldown from 60 seconds to 30 seconds.
• Lotus Poison: Increased the weakness duration to 4 seconds, but it can only apply once every 20 seconds per target.

Shadow Arts

• Last Refuge: Reduced the cooldown of this trait from 90 seconds to 60 seconds.
• Slowed Pulse: The effect of this trait now occurs if the player has 2 or more stacks of bleeding.
• Shadow Protector: This trait has been changed to apply 10 seconds of regeneration when the players stealth them. This effect will not occur if the ally already has regeneration on them.

Trickery

• Merciful Ambush: This trait now grants 2 seconds of stealth to players and their allies when beginning a revive.
• Long Reach: This trait now increases the range of Steal to 1500 (up from 1200).
• Ricochet: The chance to bounce for this trait has been increased from 25% to 50%.
• Sleight of Hand: In addition to dazing the player’s target, this trait now reduces the recharge of Steal by an additional 20%.
• Instinctual Response: This trait now properly blinds enemies struck by the feathers. Increased the radius from 120 to 180.
• Bountiful Theft: This trait will now trigger before Sleight of Hand.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Because against a good player/team, you’re going to be squashed like a tiny insignificant bug on a Mesmer’s carpet.

Try it in tPvP against a premade.

^ This. (Unfortunately.)

It’s fine(fun) for yolo queuing and WvWvW roaming,. However, in tPvP, Thief condition builds are practically non-existent. Pistol main-hand damage could use a boost honestly, but even that won’t help it break into tPvP tier.

Stealthed Thieves absolutely take damage while in stealth. If they have at least 10 points in Shadow Arts, then they can choose Shadow’s Embrace (Remove one condition every 3 seconds while in stealth.).

To follow up on channeled spells, those also track and hit stealth targets for the duration if started and a Thief enters stealth.

Source: I am a Thief that takes damage in stealth. AMA xD

The Acrobat portion of the build (dodging/evading used with double identical weapon sets) was used long before, typically in condition damage builds, be it Lowell’s Leaping Super Immortal Death Troll Legendary Unicorn Blossom, or Trippseeker’s Condition Dodger. Nothing new there. Older evade (Acrobat) builds were used with S/D + SB.

The primary reason that build came “into competitive play” is the buff to Flanking Strike, lending to the ability to spam Larcenous Strike. Stealing boons is absolutely a contributor to small squad combat, team fights, etc. In a game where burst/spike is king, constant attack uptime and pressure is a key to winning fights. Stealth mechanics do not offer much in the way of that.

The Thief community needs more airtime, more guides, more exposure that helps increase overall player knowledge and lessen the targeted QQ towards Thieves.

Jumper has the platform to do this at the moment. He has put in the time and effort to show that Thieves are not just hidden wallflowers in PvP. The added bonus is that it’s not a Stealth reliant build, which helps to cut out a lot of QQ right there.

In the same vein, the Thief community (parts of which can be a little self-serving at times) could stand to use a little humility and respect, especially among ourselves.

Great guide; look forward to seeing more.

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

WereDragon.6083:

WTF class are you running that can shrug off that damage?

any pseudo class that can move.

I think there is a duel challenge somewhere in this conversation. ;)

The phrase is “tell-tale”. Tall tales are something else, and usually told by non-Thieves visiting this forum. ;)

There is not a single build that can hold its ground against every other build for every other profession. Counters exists all over, and the solution to that is find a better target of opportunity.

As for conditions, it depends on how happy the opponent’s trigger finger is for cleanse (although Engineers do have quite a few). Depending on the thief, build, and play style, conditions range from vulnerability, blind, cripple (Caltrops), venom, and bleed. Though the latter ones tend to be shorter duration.

Would it be possible for you give a build spec as to the type of Engineer you are talking about?

Condition Removal, CC, and missing CnDs (through dodge/evade or my own poor timing) present the most challenges.

wish.1027:

Bleeding is always removed first.

Not according to the wiki, it isn’t.

“Conditions are a type of effect that can be inflicted on foes using of skills and related traits. Most conditions inflict damage over time and ignore armor and other effects that reduce damage, such as protection. For effect stacking, most conditions stack in duration while bleeding and confusion stack in intensity. Conditions can be removed by condition removal. For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first. The condition is removed independent of the intensity, so 3 stacks and 25 stacks of bleeding are equivalent when considering condition removal. "

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_removal#Skills_that_remove_conditions

I tried using Hidden Thief, but found that the auto attacks were not being cancelled reliably.

That opinion was mostly based on gut reaction, though it probably deserves more careful testing (with slightly less face-rolling on my keyboard for my “in-fight anxiety”, lol.)

In the P/D builds I’ve been playing around with, I tend to trait the following:
≥ 15 Acrobatics = Cloaked in Shadow
< 15 Acrobatics = Infusion of Shadow

I can spectate and record or stream, if that helps. ;)

Kajiri.8215:

xmtrcv.5236:

• In Combat + Fleet Shadow (1.5*210): 315 u/s
• Out of Combat + Fleet Shadow (1.5*300): 415 450 u/s

Shouldn’t it be 450?

As for it working or not… just get another thief and test ingame.

Oops, you are absolutely right. Fixed :)

Fleet Shadow is just slightly faster then Swiftness (when in combat).

• In combat: 210 u/s
• Out of Combat: 300 u/s

• In Combat + Swiftness (0.33*210): 279 u/s
• Out of Combat + Swiftness (0.33*300): 400 u/s

• In Combat + Fleet Shadow (1.5*210): 315 u/s
• Out of Combat + Fleet Shadow (1.5*300): 450 u/s

Reference: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Movement_speed

Bonus information:

• In Combat + Signet of Shadows (1.25*210): 263 u/s
• Out of Combat + Signet of Shadows (1.25*300): 375 u/s

swinsk.6410:

This might be fun.

I play d/p + sb. I normally run 0/30/30/10/0.

Rank 43 all played as thief save a few games here and there on other classes.

I’ve been on some teams with Swinsk in hotjoin… terrible, just terrible. xD

JK, was tough keeping up in score with him/her.

cough

I just saw your PM. >_<

Therging?

15char

Let’s not forget that with Cloaked in Shadow, it is an AOE blind as well. :)

Noko.8610:

xmtrcv.5236:

XelNigma.6315:

Its infinite because the code did not enforce a limit.
While you may be limited on the distance you can travel in the time allotted the game didnt care. So therefore it was infinite range.

While the code did not enforce a limit by defining a number specifically, it does not mean the term applies when people use it in the same breath as “balance”.

How does the term not apply?
“Infinity (symbol: ?) refers to something without any limit”, and the code simply made it so that it was no limit on the range for the skill. Therefor the skill had infinit range regardless of your possible movementspeed.

It was “technically” infinite due to the range not being programmed with a hard-coded number (while stating otherwise in the tool tip).

However, there was always an indefinite (variable) range limit indirectly imposed by the skill use timer of 15 seconds to return. Regardless of how fast a player moved, there was a limit of 15 seconds to do so, which in turn, would limit your range.

The post was an attempt to define a range considering the skill use timer combined with movement speed only. Variable ranges past that would depend on additional movement abilities, again, used within the skill use timer.

My point was that “infinite” was being used in the same vein as “imbalance” or “OP” by those not realizing that there was always a range limit, however it was defined/imposed.

In actuality, the range was indefinite (variable) and that depended on a combination of movement speed and abilities used within a certain timeframe, but the range had a limit nonetheless. Hence, not infinite.

What you are talking about is a matter of semantics.

XelNigma.6315:

Its infinite because the code did not enforce a limit.
While you may be limited on the distance you can travel in the time allotted the game didnt care. So therefore it was infinite range.

While the code did not enforce a limit by defining a number specifically, it does not mean the term applies when people use it in the same breath as “balance”.

What is hut? Are you referring to the Shadow Refuge skill? (with the “hut” image?)

Does this occur in combat or out of combat?

I only posted what the skill could previously do with respect to range. I purposely did not include any other skills as methods to extending that range.

I think the term “indefinite” applied if other skills were used to extend the range beyond what Shadow Return could do with natural movement in 15 seconds.

Technically speaking, there was no “infinite” range on Shadow Return.

The word “infinite” is just a placeholder substituted for “…greater than what the tool tip says!” and “..farther than I would have liked because I cannot find/see/catch that Thief now”. xD

Shadow Return’s up time of 15 seconds implies a finite range (which was not previously defined). If the up time duration has passed with no skill use, then that range is effectively 0.

While Shadow Return’s max range was not “infinite” per se’, we do know that the range was greater than 1200 (before the change).

The max range can be defined by how far (Range (u)) and how fast (Movement Speed (u/s)) the player could travel before the end of Shadow Return’s up time.

Infiltrator’s Strike (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator's_Strike)
Shadowstep to a foe and strike them. Use Shadow Return to shadowstep back and cure one condition.

• Damage: 252 (0.75)?
• Immobilized: 1 s
• Range: 600

Shadow Return (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return)
Return to your original location. Cure one condition.

• Breaks stun
• Range: 1,200

#Notes
Shadow Return has 15 seconds to be activated after using Infiltrator’s Strike to return to original location.

Range (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Range)
Distance is defined in terms of units, which are essentially equivalent to inches.

Movement Speed (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Movement_speed)
Movement speed can be expressed in units per second (u/s):

Movement

• Foward
  • In combat: 210 u/s
  • Normal: 300 u/s
  • In Combat + Swiftness (0.33*210): 279 u/s
  • Out of Combat + Swiftness (0.33*300): 400 u/s

Using the above numbers, determine max range for Shadow Return in those scenarios.

Range

• Foward
  • In combat: (210*15): 3,150 Range
  • Normal: (300*15): 4,500 Range
  • In Combat + Swiftness (279*15): 4,185 Range
  • Out of Combat + Swiftness (400*15): 6,000 Range

Please let me know of any misinformation or errors and I will correct.

During my (limited, but still) testing, it would appear that the behavior of Shadow Return is as follows:

• Range is now actually 1,200 in both skill behavior and stated by the tool tip.
• If used within range (1,200) of your original location, returns you back to your original location. Environment plays a factor that could result in skill result (no return) or improper placement (offset return).
• If used out of range from your original location, returns you back 1,200 range straight as the crow flies in the direction of your original location. Entities and environment be kittened (sometimes).
• Does not display in/out of range indicator in relation to original location.

IGN: Damage Dolly (Thief)
Main Profession: Thief
Alternate Professions: Thief for now (working on Necromancer, Engineer, Elementalist)
Account name: xmtrcv.5236
Practice Availability: 2100+ EST on most days
Current PvP Rank (not Leaderboard): 37
Level of Desire: Active Tournament Play, Casual Play
NA or EU: NA

Below are some builds I have been playing around with (read: testing) in sPvP.

25/00/30/00/15 (offensive)
00/00/30/10/30 (in-between)
00/00/30/20/20 (defensive)

All of them share 30 points into Shadow Arts as a baseline.
(You know, because it’s so “OP”. xD)

Save for choosing some more PvE oriented traits, they should translate over to PvE with the right gear.

I think when most Thieves talk about how terribad pistols, they are referencing P/P, which I tend to view as more of a direct damage weapon set that has no Stealth initiators built in. While Stealth has its quirks, I would say it is essential in PvE.

Most P/D builds are typically centered around Condition Damage.

With respect to gear, you would be looking for Carrion / Chrysocola, which focus on Condition Damage, Power, and Vitality for stats. The Might boon provides an increase to Power and subsequently, an increase to Condition Damage as well.

I think Wild Bill’s builds would be a decent starting point.

I can post my P/D build variations, however, they are focused on sPvP play.

After a couple Thief teams were fielded for the SOAC all profession tournaments, there was some further discussion of having a serious go at an all Thief team..

I would also be interested in joining. xD

Ezeriel.9574:

Stealth isn’t the problem, cloak and dagger is.

The one-two punch of absurdity is:

One: Go invisible (stealth my ass)
Gain multiple buffs of your choice:
* Cloaked in Shadow (Blinds nearby foes)
* Fleet Shadow (Move 50% faster while in stealth)
* Hidden Assassin (Gain might)
* Hidden Killer (100% crit chance while stealthed)
* Shadow Protector (Grant Regeneration to allies you stealth)
* Infusion of Shadow (Gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths)
* Patience (Regain initiative faster)
* Shadow’s Embrace (Remove one condition every three seconds)
* Rejuvenation (Regenerate health)

Two: While invisible, use one of the highest damage single attacks in the game (backstab)

…then spend the rest of the day in the forums defending your class, while bragging about how skilled you are.

There is also Hidden Thief (Stealing grants you 2 seconds of Stealth). However, that just might fall under initiators of Stealth, which would then extend to skills/utilities.

The list above offers some combinations of choices, but not all of those listed are available at the same time. A 0/30/30/10/0 build should afford you the max combinations of those choices, but what a player chooses also depends on their weapon set.

As the wiki states, “Shadow Arts is a trait line for the thief that focuses on use of stealth.” I’m not sure what people expect it to do other aside from offering Stealth-based benefits.

Also, running away from a fight mitigates damage too. (Ranger, Elementalist, Warrior) I do agree that most professions (and subsequent builds) do not have the ease or the option of “running away”.

It’s just that the Thief gets to add the element of reset with unknown direction/state. Most people do not like fighting a question mark. Stealth most definitely favors a newer, inexperienced player from that standpoint.

Now, I cannot speak for those who come on here and brag about their skill set. I can tell you there is a difference between a skilled Thief and an unskilled one. I have found it’s usually the latter that brags the most often, unfortunately.

Also, Shadow Protector? Um, no thanks. What am I? A nurse? xD

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

xmtrcv.5236:

Half the reason very few people take any posts in the Thief forum seriously is because they are a) completely baseless opinions, and b) the extreme difficulty people seem to have forming thoughts into complete sentences with grammar and punctuation.

Seriously, stop with the run on sentences. You make Thieves look bad when you post this nonsense coupled without any articulation or clarity.

“I am a Thief, please nerf me.” Yeah, OK.

I generally take very few posts seriously in the Thief forums because of posts like yours.

Thieves need a few nerfs, correct, but they need a complete redesign. Stealth is an OP mechanic in any MMORPG, Arenanet should have known this. GW1 Assassin, GW1 Thief, GW1 Monk, they were all effective and better balanced, or atleast more so than this game. They were also significantly more interesting and fun.

Posts like mine? Simply because I wish there was more constructive criticism or discussion above and beyond “Nerf them!” or “Nerf us, because I play a Thief too!”

Blanket statements such as the one you made about Stealth being OP in any game are simply opinion and conjecture. More so when stated without any suggestions as to what changes could be made.

I liked your posts more when they were in the Necromancer forum. Just don’t charge me to read them, please. xD

Half the reason very few people take any posts in the Thief forum seriously is because they are a) completely baseless opinions, and b) the extreme difficulty people seem to have forming thoughts into complete sentences with grammar and punctuation.

Seriously, stop with the run on sentences. You make Thieves look bad when you post this nonsense coupled without any articulation or clarity.

“I am a Thief, please nerf me.” Yeah, OK.

In this thread, people who complain about Thieves without attempting to understand them. And also, forgetting other classes have better options to stack (more) might.

In the SOAC tournaments, some Elementalists (on the all Elementalist team) were running around with 25 stacks of might. The casters pointed it out more than a couple times, yet I don’t recall a single Thief on the all Thief team complaining that was OP. I was amazed and slightly jealous even, lol.

The Shadow Arts is about gaining additional benefits from Stealth and Healing. Be it condition clearing (once for every three (3) seconds of Stealth) or some paltry Might stacking.

And since channeled abilities and pets do not drop target on Stealth, it’s nice to have some side benefits while in and coming back out of Stealth. Especially since I will take damage in Stealth from channels and pets/clones/phantasms just re-aggro me the instant I am Revealed.

Still wondering where this sudden complaint meta for SA came from? It’s almost as if continuous nerfing of Thief damage (and other things) is not enough. Now that Mug cannot crit, let’s choose some other random line to complain about.

The only thing wrong with SA is Last Refuge.

All this to complain about Hidden Assassin and Shadow’s Rejuvenation. /sigh

Zacchary.6183:

First off how do you even know a permastealthed thief is there?

This is comedy gold.

Leadfoot.9071:

I think it actually might be due to range issue – I’m doing it right within steal range but it is acting like I’m out of range (i.e. if I back up a couple steps the red bar appears under steal). It seems like the red bar under steal may be inaccurate relative to the caclulation when I execute the combo – if I move in a few steps it works pretty much every time.

I just tested it and it seems that is exactly it. Inched forward until I was in Steal “range”, but now get the same results as your video. I guess you need to be slightly closer than advertised? ;)

Leadfoot.9071:

I’m sure it’s something stupid… I recorded a video of it happening against training dummy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D-s7quiXD8

Can’t tell what I did different the last time where it worked properly.

I’m in game right now, in the same spot you are in the video, and have no issues stealthing.

Except now I see you are doing 5, then 2, then F1?

I think the Steal is cancelling the Heartseeker, which is why you go nowhere. (This is true if you wait too long between key presses.)

Never mind, I got it. You have to F1 then 2 immediately after, like a double-tap.

I don’t know about all that.

I would say the majority of Thieves I see in PVP run 25/30/0/0/15 and are typically D/D+SB. They run around pewpewing everything until cooldowns are up and health are maxed, and drop their burst combo on some unsuspecting player on the fringe of a fight. Then they are off again!

Yeah, they are everywhere.

Thieves have a metallic aftertaste.

Thief

One of the issues we are working on for thieves in this release is the dependence on traits that boost initiative. We did this by shaving a significant amount of initiative gain from these traits while simultaneously boosting the generic rate of initiative gain by 33%. We have also reduced the effectiveness of high-evasion thieves by reducing vigor uptime and adding some cast time to the Shadow Return skill on the sword. This prevents thieves from evading and easily dealing with being disabled (stun, daze, fear, knockdown, etc.). Also, we are trying to improve the survivability of thieves in the Acrobatics line through easier access to the Hard to Catch trait and increased effectiveness of the Assassin’s Reward trait. This will reward thieves who are actively engaged in the fight rather than those who are just dodging over and over again. The change to Infusion of Shadow is meant to stop players from gaining initiative by applying stealth while already in stealth. This should keep thieves from being able to recharge all of their power while idling in a very long stealth. We felt that using a lot of different abilities to maintain stealth is okay, but reusing the same ability over and over for almost permanent stealth was just bad for the game, especially when gaining large amounts of initiative.

• Increased the base rate of initiative gain from .75 per second to 1 per second.
• Sword—Shadow Return: Renamed to Infiltrator’s Return. Added a .25-second cast time.
• Pistol—Pistol Whip: Reduced the aftercast on the first half of this skill by .25 seconds.
• Deadly Arts VI—Sundering Strikes: Increased the trigger chance from 33% to 50%. Removed the internal cooldown. Decreased the vulnerability duration from 14 seconds to 6 seconds.
• Critical Strikes VI—Practiced Tolerance: Increased the conversion from 5% to 7%.
• Critical Strikes VIII—Signet Use: Reduced the initiative gain from 2 to 1.
• Critical Strike X—Critical Haste: Increased the trigger chance to 25%.
• Critical Strikes 15—Opportunist: Increased the trigger chance to 50%. Increased the cooldown from 1 second to 5 seconds.
• Shadow Arts V—Infusion of Shadow: Increased the amount of initiative gained to 2, but only when entering stealth.
• Acrobatics III—Vigorous Recovery: Reduced the vigor duration from 8 seconds to 5 seconds.
• Acrobatics IV—Assassin’s Retreat: Increased the swiftness duration to 20 seconds.
• Acrobatics IX—Quick Recovery: Reduced the initiative gain from 2 to 1.
• Acrobatics X—Hard to Catch: Moved to the Master tier.
• Acrobatics XI—Assassin’s Reward: Increased the scaling with healing power by 35%. Moved to the Grandmaster tier.
• Trickery 5— – Kleptomaniac: Reduced the initiative gain from 3 to 2.
• Trickery VII—Bountiful Theft: Reduced the vigor duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds.

Bug Fixes

• Ink Shot: Updated the damage fact to function with Power Shots.
• Ink Shot—Smoke Trail: This skill will now return to Ink Shot if the projectile is destroyed.
• Dancing Dagger: Updated the cripple skill fact to display the proper duration.

This build is decent for 1v1 against non multiple condition opponents. For zerg fighting, it is best to stick to the fringe and lock down some of the outsiders to the fight.

Remember, evade != survivability.

I think the idea is (should be?) less about getting top players and more about getting a team that syncs and works well together in a coordinated fashion.

I definitely enjoyed playing with the SOAC Thief group last week. I think had we been more coordinated, we might have been able to be more effective (with regards to fighting Elementalists).

I’d love to play again, but I cannot because – responsibilities. xD Good luck to all those who do play!

I love how people talk about Elementalist coordination, when AOEing a point requires no coordination whatsoever.

You need to coordinate single target damage between players much the same way you need to coordinate a skill chain/rotation as one player, except the former is much more difficult than the latter (and relies on multiple of the latter). And then attempt to do that burst in massive AOE and CC also.

Also Shadow Refuging Thieves Guild helps nothing, because AOE once you pop out and +2 Eles start laying it down.

Not sure why people really expected anything other than Elementalists dominating the second map. That’s just the way the cookie crumbles.

First map loss (Svanir steal by Ele) was my fault, straight up.

All in all, it was fun.

Nettle.9025:

No reason to go into it already assuming it’s a loss. I have a few interesting ideas for this matchup. :)

I meant personal failure, not team failure. ;)

I am already testing some ideas as well. :p