Guild Wars 2

Excalibur.9748:

What: D/P thief
Why: Because if you’re a thief and can’t melt a warrior, you need to L2P.

<3

Rarnark.5623:

I’m still not 100% sure what you’re trying to argue. Warrior healing signet is a completely irrelevant topic when discussing the state of the D/P trickery build for thief, so is the class I main. If you want to be taken seriously I recommend you form an opinion and support it with evidence.

The competitive tpvp community is severely under represented on the forums and this is part of the reason why. Please bring some intelligent discussion and they may return. I would love to hear their opinions.

Your form of intelligent discussion was to offer your opinion with no supporting evidence.

D/P thiefs are pretty overpowered now when played correctly.

to which I commented on the irony of that statement from a Warrior main commenting on a profession that you don’t main. (Read: my opinion) There was no argument to be had, since they are just opinions.

Your intelligent retort was:

If you’re getting melted by warriors as a thief you’re getting outplayed.

to which I replied “I’m not and I don’t.” with the follow up that I don’t win all fights against all Warriors, because that’s just how things go. I’m a realist and all builds have their limitations against other builds.

However, I believe some limitations (and not isolated to the Thief profession here) are indirectly amplified by an overpowered (passive) healing ability available to Warriors. (Read: my opinion.)

The observation that I cannot swing a cat around in s/tPvP without hitting a Warrior running Healing Signet speaks to its popularity of healing ability choice due to the passive benefits. (Read: my opinion.)

Countless self-spectates of Warriors in sPVP (have to understand your enemy, you know?) and multiple videos of Warriors (by Warriors) moseying into blobs, while bumping “Hammer Time” as the soundtrack, then meandering out with nary a scratch, speaks to that as well. (Read: my opinion)

The risk vs. reward ratio for Warriors is significantly lower than it is for Thieves. (Read: my opinion.)

You see, I can state my opinion (implied or explicit) all I want, because a view or judgment formed about something does not necessarily need to be based on fact or knowledge. I respected that in your statement and replied with one of equal value.

However, I have clarified them in detail (for your reduced comprehension) with examples of knowledge gained (personal and observed).

That being said:

• the class you main (Warrior, in case you forgot)
  and
• your profession’s preferred choice of healing ability (Healing Signet, to recap)

are absolute relevant (and especially humorous) in a topic discussing D/P thief, when you:

1. are a Warrior
2. call them overpowered (if played “correctly”)
3. says it’s a lrn2play issue if a Thief loses to a Warrior (not played “correctly”)

Don’t complain because you inserted yourself into a conversation where your opinions are met with sarcastic observations of irony (yes, totally based on my opinion).

edit: I accidentally a opinion. xD

Rarnark.5623:

xmtrcv.5236:

Rarnark.5623:

Just play the d/p trickery thief.

D/P thiefs are pretty overpowered now when played correctly.

This coming from a Warrior / Guardian? lolk

If you’re getting melted by warriors as a thief you’re getting outplayed.

I’m not and I don’t. (Warrior experience and build are always a factor, ymmv.)

However, Warriors are in a pretty sweet place right now and I find it laughable that a Warrior/Guardian comes into Thief forums to troll and tell people it’s a l2p issue.

We all know 410 HP regen a second isn’t overpowered. Not at all.

/wave Swinsk

It was good playing with you in sPvP. Thanks for all the venoms. xD

Rarnark.5623:

Just play the d/p trickery thief.

D/P thiefs are pretty overpowered now when played correctly.

This coming from a Warrior / Guardian? lolk

Don’t post this nonsense without a build link, sheesh.

killahmayne.9518:

Did they nerf you guys or something?

All I see in WvW are a bunch of condition P/D or P/P thieves with perplexity runes running caltrops and venoms. It is a really strong (but cheesy) build though, like the thief version of the blackwater mesmer build.

Someone doesn’t read patch notes. I love how all Thief builds are “cheesy” by default. (because it’s perceived as strong, I’m sure.) bookitteninghoo.

Sanduskel.1850:

well One of us actually agrees with their latest patch. I think they made some good changes.

FTFY

You are a lonely island.

Stop speaking for others when you have no place to.

Travlane.5948:

Interceptor.2653:

evilapprentice.6379:

I failed […]

Indeed. There are no “people” making assumptions, here: that’s just you. While we’re giving unsolicited advice, here’s mine: it’s good practice to not make judgments about someone else’s motivations. If you want information, ask for it.

the hallmark of good design is every skill being useful on its own.

A bold assertion. Take a look at this simple chart:

0 Hide in Shadows
3 Signet of Malice
1 Withdraw
25 Skelk Venom

Anything stand out to your eye?

whats this chart mean? i dont get it. its more like a tally score thana chart. mind elaborating?

Skill Point cost.

And that one heal is a Venom.

evilapprentice.6379:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

^yeah I think Evilapprentice meant forums as well… :p

That is exactly what I meant, for clarification.

I know what you meant! I said what you meant! xD <3

In fact, “leaderboards” is one of the least-used words in the Thief forums, considering the current state of the profession. :)

evilapprentice.6379:

VidurrRedhands.1964:

It is a stun break if you teleport 600 units away since that gap can’t be easily closed during the duration of the stun. Also, I’ve played both S/P and S/D and those builds usually have far from glass survivability since the burst is so low you have to have sustain in order to keep pressure on. You still have your evades.

In this quote you claim S/D and S/P have such low burst, but above you claimed S/D thieves could 3 shot players. Which is it?

In addition, we have ~40% less vigor uptime, so the statement “you still have your evades” should be changed to “You still have ~60% of your evades, which is the primary mechanic by which thieves survive due to the lack of protection/stability/blocks/immunes”.

And again, it is not a stun break. Stun is not broken. It is usable while stunned, but it is not a stun break.

To further bolster the point:

June 25, 2013

• Shadow Return (Infiltrator Strike Toggle): This skill is no longer a stun breaker.

It’s additional evade (on a timer) at the cost of initiative. (The other side effect of the reworked skill is that condition clearing can be delayed / less effective.)

Amaterasu.6280:

evilapprentice.6379:

Amaterasu.6280:

Quit complaining, any veteran thief will tell you sword #2 was broken. I am using the new shadow return just fine…you no longer have a get out of jail card, big deal. You have a stunbreaker for that reason. It’s time to focus on timing dodges and gameplay, rather than relying on sword #2 to save your kitten .

Except OP is a veteran thief, while I’ve seen your name on the boards a mere handful of times (Which isn’t an insult, just to say by your logic I should trust Arg’s opinion over yours)

lol I stopped reading when you mentioned leaderboards…leaderboard rank = vet now? Good joke.

Say what you want, but you and OP just seems sour because you can’t use sword 2 as a instant (no skill) get-out-of-jail card. I think the nerf was totally necessary to make thieves put some thought into using using their sword 2, and actually learning to dodge instead of charging in like an idiot and being able to rely on shadow return to save your kitten if anything ever goes wrong. You have stunbreaks and dodges, use them.

Easy there, Texas… I think boards = forums. You should probably think a little bit before assuming so quickly. :)

Also:
June 25, 2013

• Shadow Return (Infiltrator Strike Toggle): This skill is no longer a stun breaker.

It stopped being a stun breaker long ago. It just ported you back (while still under the effects of the CC), at the cost of initiative.

I’ll just leave this here, since my original topic (containing the text below) was merged into my December 10th changes thread. :/

Don’t get me wrong. I love my Thief and I’m not giving her up. The risk versus reward can be a challenge sometimes, but that’s with all professions (for the most part). Sometimes balance is frustrating (and infuriating)…

xmtrcv.5236:

Completely pointless profession in its current state. What a shame. I loved it so much, and put so much time in to her, and now after the profession has been constantly broken down and dismantled piece by piece, the Thief is totally useless.

A profession that relies on being stealthy and slippery and a dev comes out and basically says Thieves need to commit more time in (close quarters) combat. lolwut? Nerf and limit the escapes and avoidance and moving traits to shove them down our throats because Thieves are not playing the way the devs want?

I think you’ve spent too much team time on Warriors and expecting Thieves to do what they do. Totally selfish and lazy balancing. That’s because there are no devs committed to the profession, that much is obvious. We are a minor bullet point on an agenda that people just want to get past as soon as possible when discussing changes.

Developers tout “community initiative” to garner feedback from players with respect to their (and other) classes, yet totally, completely, and utterly ignore it. Corporations do it all the time with their company communications regarding changes, in an attempt to bond and relate to employees as a precursor to giving them undesired news, all under the guise of, “We are trying to work with you.”

Same goes for ArenaNet. I’ve never seen so much player interaction and feedback (for the most part, in the positive), attempting to work through/with ArenaNet’s perceived “issues”, with so little developer response and/or action. And when we do, it’s a bullkitten blanket post that addresses none of the concerns the community has at the forefront. (Perma-stealth needed to go, that I do agree with.) Hell, the developer can’t even type a clearly thought out post or responses with proper spelling or grammar. Just a canned introduction to changes and repeated in (the few) responses. Same text that is in the patch notes. A perfect example of “because I said so” development if I ever saw one.

Perhaps if you spent less time on the Living Story (which is trash in that it is really just the same process all over in different areas with different mobs and names) and more time on balance, you would see a change in the community attitude (and not just the Thief one… except maybe Warriors.)

Completely pointless profession in its current state. What a shame. I loved it so much, and put so much time in to her, and now after the profession has been constantly broken down and dismantled piece by piece, the Thief is totally useless.

A profession that relies on being stealthy and slippery and a dev comes out and basically says Thieves need to commit more time in (close quarters) combat. lolwut? Nerf and limit the escapes and avoidance and moving traits to shove them down our throats because Thieves are not playing the way the devs want?

I think you’ve spent too much team time on Warriors and expecting Thieves to do what they do. Totally selfish and lazy balancing. That’s because there are no devs committed to the profession, that much is obvious. We are a minor bullet point on an agenda that people just want to get past as soon as possible when discussing changes.

Developers tout “community initiative” to garner feedback from players with respect to their (and other) classes, yet totally, completely, and utterly ignore it. Corporations do it all the time with their company communications regarding changes, in an attempt to bond and relate to employees as a precursor to giving them undesired news, all under the guise of, “We are trying to work with you.”

Same goes for ArenaNet. I’ve never seen so much player interaction and feedback (for the most part, in the positive), attempting to work through/with ArenaNet’s perceived “issues”, with so little developer response and/or action. And when we do, it’s a bullkitten blanket post that addresses none of the concerns the community has at the forefront. (Perma-stealth needed to go, that I do agree with.) Hell, the developer can’t even type a clearly thought out post or responses with proper spelling or grammar. Just a canned introduction to changes and repeated in (the few) responses. Same text that is in the patch notes. A perfect example of “because I said so” development if I ever saw one.

Perhaps if you spent less time on the Living Story (which is trash in that it is really just the same process all over in different areas with different mobs and names) and more time on balance, you would see a change in the community attitude (and not just the Thief one… except maybe Warriors.)

Fade.7658:

In my mind’s eye, it is. The longer my cover conditions last, the better.

This is why I always thought that Condition Duration > Bleed Duration, at least from a personal standpoint. Why cut potential Torment damage in half by going strictly Bleed Duration? Why cut applied Blinds shorter than need be?

Glad to see others think that way too.

Zacchary.6183:

swinsk.6410:

This may be the patch that makes me stop playing thief all together. We will see…

I’m deleting my thief today to free up a character slot. :3

No!
Stay with us!
Let’s troll together!

Zero Day.2594:

Jaradon.2756:

Imagi.4561:

Sanduskel.1850:

Again, sample size of 1 an anecdotal.

…What?

What indeed, he certainly lost me…

Basically whatever Sanduskel says is irrelevant because he’s a sample size of one. :D

+1 to you. xD

Zacchary.6183:

xmtrcv.5236:

Zero Day.2594:

xmtrcv.5236:

Stealth (and the benefits gained during) is easily countered by AOEs, channeled spells, melee auto-attacks, and random chance.

OMG !?!? THERS WAYS TO COUNTERZ OP PERMA STLEATHERS!?!?!
NO WAI!! I THOUGHT THAT THEY TOOO OP TO COUNTERZ
I WILL QUIT QQING AND AOE/CHANNEL NEXT TIME I FIGHT A THIEF ANFD L2p

(sarcasm)

Allow me to respond in kind…

Ditto.

Ditto redux.

Sanduskel.1850:

xmtrcv.5236:

Sanduskel.1850:

Then go complain about warriors. Making thieves op in exchange isn’t an answer. The majority of those were bug fixes to prevent abuse of broken mechanics. Again anet has to look at the balance of the entire game. I still see thieves receiving the greatest hate in map chat, warriors aren’t even close. How else do you expect anet to respond. I look forward to a day when anet can actually help this class because hated abusive specs are no more.

I’m not complaining about Warriors, per se’. I am using them as an example of comparison in imbalance among all professions in the game.

A lot of the reason why Thieves receive systematic nerfs is because they got the most hate from being perceived as OP. That translates to the most reports, the most complaints, and in the end, the most nerfs. That is based on empirical evidence. Only players that have yet to l2p, complain about Thieves.

That’s a flawed assumption. I doubt ANET balances because everyone complaining about thieves can’t l2p play, lol. that’s your explanation but it’s just your assumption. when thieves complain about other classes, should we just tell thieves to l2p? Hardly.

Some of us appreciate the improved base init regen and other improvements coming. I am sorry that you struggle with people who disagree with you, but i guess you have to revert to personal attacks when you don’t get your way.

Yes, the Thief forums is full of Thieves that appreciate how ArenaNet has “balanced” them and welcome the “improvements” when compared to other classes.

Your standard retort is just focusing on a lone minor point with a generic, banal response that falls flat on its face. In fact, every post from your history follows the same script. So, not really struggling with anything over here. Thanks for the concern.

The posts where you complain about Thieves using Stealth and telling them l2p against other classes.

“…noobs will have to l2p or leave…”

And then insisting Stealth = survivability, and if you can’t, it’s a l2p issue.

Simply brilliant!

Not sure what “way” I was supposed to get, but I’m not sorry I hurt your feelings, regardless. Maybe you should try a different game if you’re that sensitive and feel you have to resort to personal attacks when your arguments fail?

Have fun trolling! <3

Sanduskel.1850:

Then go complain about warriors. Making thieves op in exchange isn’t an answer. The majority of those were bug fixes to prevent abuse of broken mechanics. Again anet has to look at the balance of the entire game. I still see thieves receiving the greatest hate in map chat, warriors aren’t even close. How else do you expect anet to respond. I look forward to a day when anet can actually help this class because hated abusive specs are no more.

I’m not complaining about Warriors, per se’. I am using them as an example of comparison in imbalance among all professions in the game.

A lot of the reason why Thieves receive systematic nerfs is because they got the most hate from being perceived as OP. That translates to the most reports, the most complaints, and in the end, the most nerfs. That is based on empirical evidence. Only players that have yet to l2p, complain about Thieves.

I’m not asking for OP, and I think the same could be said for the majority of Thieves on the forums. I am asking for communication and balance. Warriors get it (an example), so why not Thieves?

I welcome the Infusion of Shadow change (as I stated before) because it was cheese. A crutch. Somewhat cheap. And (apparently) an unintended side effect of the trait. Some changes to Thieves are appropriate, however, most are done without rhyme or reason or justification.

“Shaving” (read: taking a dagger and disemboweling) Initiative across the board is like cutting your nose off to spite your face, especially when the perma-stealth issue from a weapon set is solved by one trait change.

(To be honest, I use no Initiative regenerating traits or utilities in my build, so I was confused about this Initiative issue and how it was making me, or anyone else, less effective. Furthermore, I don’t recall reading a lot of posts from Thieves with regards to problems with Initiative.)

Forcing a Thief to stay in a fight (additional nerfs to Shadow Return, re: cast time) when a Thief was meant to get in and out quickly is a lazy attempt at balance and forcing a specific style of game play. Especially when nothing is offered up in return for survivability/sustainability. It’s just simply penalizing the Thief for skillful game play.

Moving a traits, that no one uses, up/down tiers to attempt to “encourage” Thieves to use them in their builds, is also a lazy attempt at balance. Just rework the traits with community feedback. (Jon Peters even admitted that a pick-and-choose-whatever-trait swap was not how they should be doing that.)

What happened to those high mobility changes the devs spoke of? I don’t really think nerfing Shadow Return falls under that.

What about the increase in direct damage across weapon sets the devs mentioned? A reduction of initiative is a reduction of applied weapon damage through using less skills because of less initiative. So no help there.

I get that you are not willing to have any kind of real debate, but rather prefer to focus on elaborating a single minor point, rather than actually answering questions to further a discussion, or provide any real insight. Thanks for trolling though.

I do hope that some other Thieves got some insight.

Sanduskel.1850:

xmtrcv.5236:

Sanduskel.1850:

xmtrcv.5236:

Sanduskel.1850:

SoLeciTO.3490:

This video is a perfect evidence of how unfair anet is balancing the things.

This video prove that with a warrior:

1.- A clicker can rule in a big fight.
2.- You can walk in the middle of the fight with an AOE damage fest like nothing.
3.- You can bring a lot of sustain CC and AOE damage.
4.- You need 1/4 of the skill that requires a thief, engi, ele, mesmer to play.
5.- Don’t need to worry of reacting fast, there is almost no punishment to mistakes like a bad evade or escape skill use.

And trust me when i say this . . . i don’t ask to nerf warriors i’m happy that they enjoy this meta, i really do, but ANET must stop this no sense thief nerfing and consider this next dec 10.

Sample sizes of one prove nothing, sorry. Anet is fair and balanced. You don’t agree because you have a bias and its not your job to protect the health of the game. You and most thieves care only about your class.

You must be kidding. More like, sample size of the entire Warrior population. You can’t swing a cat around by its tail without hitting a Healing Signet Warrior of some type.

One video doesn’t prove anything. Anet has all the data. Trust them to do what’s right for the game.

Current state of Warriors proves everything.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Videos-The-Wilsonian-Institute-11-11-13
bonus content: Warriors complaining about nerfs. How zany!

Please do your research.

I wonder why Thieves don’t trust ArenaNet to do the right thing.
source:

Compilation of Thief Nerfs (V 2.0)
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Compilation-of-Thief-Nerfs-V-2-0/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Compilation-of-Thief-Nerfs-V-2-0/3173053

Most of those aren’t nerfs. Secondly, you may not like the adjustments but Anet must protect the health of the game. Many of us love our thieves but we like challenges. challenges aren’t for everyone though.

The majority of them are nerfs.

How are Warriors protecting the health of the game when the game is being saturated with them?

If ArenaNet knows what they are doing, care to explain Counterblow through Blinding Powder then?

Oh, maybe because Blinding Powder is a blast finisher now? And now that makes it an attack (with no damage!). So, don’t go using it near professions that can block/counter with an attack.

Yes, complete genius on their part.

Sanduskel.1850:

xmtrcv.5236:

Sanduskel.1850:

SoLeciTO.3490:

This video is a perfect evidence of how unfair anet is balancing the things.

This video prove that with a warrior:

1.- A clicker can rule in a big fight.
2.- You can walk in the middle of the fight with an AOE damage fest like nothing.
3.- You can bring a lot of sustain CC and AOE damage.
4.- You need 1/4 of the skill that requires a thief, engi, ele, mesmer to play.
5.- Don’t need to worry of reacting fast, there is almost no punishment to mistakes like a bad evade or escape skill use.

And trust me when i say this . . . i don’t ask to nerf warriors i’m happy that they enjoy this meta, i really do, but ANET must stop this no sense thief nerfing and consider this next dec 10.

Sample sizes of one prove nothing, sorry. Anet is fair and balanced. You don’t agree because you have a bias and its not your job to protect the health of the game. You and most thieves care only about your class.

You must be kidding. More like, sample size of the entire Warrior population. You can’t swing a cat around by its tail without hitting a Healing Signet Warrior of some type.

One video doesn’t prove anything. Anet has all the data. Trust them to do what’s right for the game.

Current state of Warriors proves everything.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Videos-The-Wilsonian-Institute-11-11-13
bonus content: Warriors complaining about nerfs. How zany!

Please do your research.

I wonder why Thieves don’t trust ArenaNet to do the right thing.
source:

Compilation of Thief Nerfs (V 2.0)
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Compilation-of-Thief-Nerfs-V-2-0/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Compilation-of-Thief-Nerfs-V-2-0/3173053

AlexEBT.7240:

xmtrcv.5236:

You must be kidding. More like, sample size of the entire Warrior population. You can’t swing a cat around by its tail without hitting a Healing Signet Warrior of some type.

You have done a great mistake here by starting a discussion with Sandy here. I warn you that it’ll be a pointless endeavour arguing further so value your sanity and stop.

Oh, I am quite aware.

I’ve already made my points though, so … moving on. xD

Happy Thiefing!

I find the (my) best counter to those types of Warriors is P/D (condition) and being generous with Blinds.

Sanduskel.1850:

SoLeciTO.3490:

This video is a perfect evidence of how unfair anet is balancing the things.

This video prove that with a warrior:

1.- A clicker can rule in a big fight.
2.- You can walk in the middle of the fight with an AOE damage fest like nothing.
3.- You can bring a lot of sustain CC and AOE damage.
4.- You need 1/4 of the skill that requires a thief, engi, ele, mesmer to play.
5.- Don’t need to worry of reacting fast, there is almost no punishment to mistakes like a bad evade or escape skill use.

And trust me when i say this . . . i don’t ask to nerf warriors i’m happy that they enjoy this meta, i really do, but ANET must stop this no sense thief nerfing and consider this next dec 10.

Sample sizes of one prove nothing, sorry. Anet is fair and balanced. You don’t agree because you have a bias and its not your job to protect the health of the game. You and most thieves care only about your class.

You must be kidding. More like, sample size of the entire Warrior population. You can’t swing a cat around by its tail without hitting a Healing Signet Warrior of some type.

Sanduskel.1850:

xmtrcv.5236:

Sanduskel.1850:

That’s a very limited view of survivability and perhaps why you struggled with your thief so much that you play another class. Stealth is the best tool for survivability.

Stealth != Survivability (in combat)

Stealth (and the benefits gained during) is easily countered by AOEs, channeled spells, melee auto-attacks, and random chance.

At best, it provides misdirection. For running away.

Then you aren’t using other things at your disposal – know when to dodge, know where to move etc.

Why should I have to dodge when Stealth affords me so much survivability?

I don’t know many Warriors that feel the need to dodge when Blocking.

What you are actually saying, is that to truly survive in Stealth, once must Evade and/or Move. So, thus, Evade/Move = Survivability.

Guess what? Both are true, and are completely independent of Stealth. So it’s not really Stealth that is the tool for Survivability.

The point, is that Stealth can be (and is) countered. Sometimes easily. Using it can come at a cost, and usually with additional penalties, which other mechanics do not readily suffer from when in use.

In Stealth, you are still be subject to all things combat related. It just makes it harder to pinpoint a location…
for 3 seconds (PvP)
or for 4 seconds (PvE/WvWvW)
or 10 (Shadow Refuge if in it for 4+ seconds)
or more (D/P until 12/10)
or the Thief runs off.

I would love to know more about what else is at a Thief’s disposal for Stealth survivability. Don’t forget to detail “etc.” in the list.

Please post your build(s), as I am honestly curious to see where you are coming from.

Zero Day.2594:

xmtrcv.5236:

Stealth (and the benefits gained during) is easily countered by AOEs, channeled spells, melee auto-attacks, and random chance.

OMG !?!? THERS WAYS TO COUNTERZ OP PERMA STLEATHERS!?!?!
NO WAI!! I THOUGHT THAT THEY TOOO OP TO COUNTERZ
I WILL QUIT QQING AND AOE/CHANNEL NEXT TIME I FIGHT A THIEF ANFD L2p

(sarcasm)

Allow me to respond in kind…

Sanduskel.1850:

That’s a very limited view of survivability and perhaps why you struggled with your thief so much that you play another class. Stealth is the best tool for survivability.

Stealth != Survivability (in combat)

Stealth (and the benefits gained during) is easily countered by AOEs, channeled spells, melee auto-attacks, and random chance.

At best, it provides misdirection. For running away.

Sanduskel.1850:

Little survivability? Are you kidding me? My thief has tons of survivability AND decent dps.

Define survivability. Better yet, please post your build. Thanks!

Einlanzer.1627:

magom.3275:

Arkitech.9158:

Ricochet is awesome. i have had 1 shot bounce 5 times before. Also, any pistol shot bounces. So immobilize, shadow shot from D/P, headshot, every pistol shot. I have bounced between 4-5 people blinding them and hitting them with shadow shot for the lawls a few times. Ricochet is a wonderfully fun trait, and 50% is HUGE. You know it used to be 15%? That was trash.

Wrong, It used to be 5% first, then 20% later, and yea, both times was a trash.

I can’t help but feel like it was always supposed to be 50% but that someone typo’d and then everyone assumed 5% was the intention. Because, seriously, who could be that dumb to think that a 5% bounce chance was worth a trait?

Are you new here? xD

Have you seen what ArenaNet is capable of with the nerfs and changes and traits (even those that remain untouched) that we have available to use?

Remember when we all thought that Shadow’s Embrace was going to be nerfed down to 1 condition cleared every 10 seconds?

This tells you someone at ArenaNet was thinking that removing 1 condition every 3 seconds (in Stealth, mind you), was overpowered. I guarantee that was only “reverted” or not implemented because of the change to Infusion of Shadow.

<random_thoughts_rant>

I just don’t get it.

Perma-stealthing is the obvious focus, although in reality, it only hurts the Thief in any sort of competitive fashion (PvP, WvWvW).

I understand Infusion of Shadow changes. I can see that being somewhat of a concern. It’s a little cheesy, but I always felt that removing myself from the fight (to reset, not to survive) was more of a hindrance than a help. Personal opinion, and your mileage may vary depending on if you were facing a D/P Thief or you are the D/P Thief. xD

So, it allowed a Thief to reset a fight, regain initiative, and make people uncomfortable because they don’t know the Thief’s location. OK, fine, whatever. It seems like an answer to a problem and complaints shouted out from the mountaintops that is the forums, but it is what it is.

However, asking (read: forcing) the Thief to stick around in fights while severely reducing their effectiveness (-initiative, -vigor, etc.) and marginally increasing their survivability (+healing) is counter-productive.

It’s so great. I can get Deadly Arts 30 and Acrobatics 30 to get max toughness and vitality and really capitalize on that +healing scaling because that trait is now Grandmaster. Those other 10 points are certainly going to bring the damages, right? Forgetting that now I am forced to dodge less and regen initiative less. whee.

We are getting penalized for guerrilla warfare tactics and being told that is incorrect game play for a profession that is supposed to be slippery. Our bare minimum tool set for being slippery is constantly and systematically being reduced. Why not give a point of initiative on a successful Evade, thus promoting skillful game play?

The only answer for asking Thieves to stick around and keep the pressure on was a healing scaling increase. Have you forgot about all the direct damage nerfs to our skills from previous patches? Then you bump up Assassin’s Reward to Grandmaster to put it even more out of reach? Insult to injury, and then we get pushed down the stairs. And in exchange for what? Hard to Catch? More like Easy To Choose Another Trait.

Sword changes force Thieves to be in a fight longer than necessary, because you want them to “stick around”?

And then a bunch of changes to traits no one uses or wants.

The first thought when faced with a trait that is not popular (i.e., unused), should not be to move it to make it more accessible. If the trait is worth its salt, then there would be little issue choosing it at the higher tier. Moving it down a tier is (what I believe) a lazy attempt at balance. The better approach would be a re-look at the trait with feedback.

A good start might be a graphing of builds and traits used across weapon sets to understand why certain traits are not used, even within their “wheelhouse” build or weapon set(s).

Just so … frustrating.

Arg.

</random_thoughts_rant>

Real life happens sometimes. Stuck at 12/13 also.

No Halloween oriented daily on the board after reset, so there goes that. Talk about weak sauce. :(

Romo.3709:

xmtrcv.5236:

Is there any way to get the “A Royal Tradition” achievement at this time?

No there isn’t. It’s a time based achievement you can only get around Halloween.

xmtrcv.5236:

I just got back from travel/work deployment, and am just now catching up. In fact, I am all caught up except for this one silly achievement.

Why would such a meta rely on one teensy, weensy little achievement with no “last hurrah” availability?

Oh wait, it seems my “Lunatic Regular” achievement (that I just achieved) got reset? What?

As to the rest of it, you don’t need to get it at all. Lunatic Regular was added later on as a resetting achievement you can just do over and over.
Anet implemented a new system where not only you do your meta achievements, but they also include “extra” ones in your daily achievements. So what you can do is look in your daily pannel and look for an achievement with Halloween Shaped Door Icon and that one counts towards your meta achievement progression.
Halloween is going away tomorrow with the introduction of the new Living Story update, so you can still do the daily one today and right after reset tonight to get those 2 extra points (unsure how many you still need to complete the meta since you haven’t put that info out).
So, good luck!

There’s only one with a door icon, and I’ve done that one already, it seems. :(

I only need 12/13 to get meta at the moment. Are you saying that after reset, I still have a chance to complete? Daily resets in 5 hours, so I can definitely do that and perhaps the remaining Sweet Friend achievements.

Ugh, so frustrating. Sometimes, real life happens, lol. Thanks for the information! :)

Is there any way to get the “A Royal Tradition” achievement at this time?

I just got back from travel/work deployment, and am just now catching up. In fact, I am all caught up except for this one silly achievement.

Why would such a meta rely on one teensy, weensy little achievement with no “last hurrah” availability?

redkat.1982 mentioned in-game about being Pistol/Pistol and attempting Horace.

No changes to traits, just to weapon(s) (P/P) and skills (1).

Nothing fancy, just fun.

http://youtu.be/9ynSyb4oQdI

If Stealth is an option in my chosen weapon set, then by jove, I’ll use it.

Why impart imaginary rules and boundaries to satisfy some sort of inner honor/moral code?

Do Mesmers ask other Mesmers, “Do you feel forced to use Clones because they are so mainstream?”?

redkat.1892:

Thanks :)

Ricochet?

I normally use Thrill of the Crime or Bountiful Theft. Like I said, I just rolled out with what I had. xD

This is the exact build I was using for that fight.

Depending on the fight, I’ll make some changes to traits, but that’s pretty rare.

In this instance, I basically just rolled out of Heart of the Mists and went looking for Horace (did not even have Vault Waypoint, lol).

Things to improve upon:

• use max food
• use (max) tuning crystal (always forget)
• change out Superior Sigil of Paralyzation (re: Stun/Daze duration big fix)
• convert some Carrion pieces to Dire
• upgrade back piece

redkat.1892:

Thank all you thieves for the feedback :)

Those Madnek youtube videos are helpful for ideas to get those champs. However it did look like he could just have kited that Risen Champion he fought.

Horace just owned my Guardian too lol, and i cant see that being processed video posted by Damage Dolly on how to get him?

My apologies.

Just found out that YouTube meefed on processing the first video, so I am re-uploading. :(

http://youtu.be/j3GTTM-i_DY

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Horace has like 10000000 single hit kill skills that he can do at 6000 range through walls and can even kill you in another map. Seriously i hate that dude. I honestly don’t think he can be solo’d, but that’s just me.

Video is converting now. Please stand by. xD

Still processing…

http://youtu.be/_U5okUW1jrI

See below.

Switch.4892:

I’ve noticed this happens with the Hidden Thief trait that gives you stealth on steal. Only with a pistol main hand too, never with s/x or d/x. I made a P/P build that revolved around stealth via traits and utilities but didn’t really work out because of this. Would be nice if it could get fixed.

I run Hidden Thief on my P/D build. When it works, it’s great.

The trick (pun intended) is to angle yourself away before you Steal, so that you are facing away (and most likely running away) when the Steal has completed so auto attacks don’t work their way in. Hope this helps. :)

Maderas.9741:

Maugetarr.6823:

Cloak and Dagger precludes the use of black powder.

How? Most thieves I see are running D/P and D/D, and if they need to escape they use stealth to break combat and swap to Shortbow. Or they can just mash Heartseeker.

Stealth for D/P = Black Powder + Heartseeker
Stealth for D/D = Steal | Infiltrator’s Signet + Cloak and Dagger

Funny thing is, I don’t see a single Heartseeker in this chain. What I do see is two CnDs (one from Steal). The other just tells me you were standing there. Coupled with those kinds of numbers, you got picked out as a soft target, and for good reason.

Sorry :(

You should probably look again. In the top right corner. xD

Sceinna.3561:

I’m crippled & doing a little camera trick there.. it’s not hard.

Heartseeker with crutches? I’m impressed…

Don’t be so kitten yourself. You’re not crippled, just handi-capable! xD

Thief

• Shadow Refuge: This skill now functions with the Hide in Shadows trait.
• Shadow Pursuit: This skill now functions with the Hide in Shadows trait.
• Blinding Powder: Stealth duration has been decreased from 5 seconds to 4 seconds when traited with Hide in Shadows. The skill remains with a base of 3 seconds. This skill is now a blast finisher.
• Merciful Ambush: This skill now functions with the Hide in Shadows trait for the recipient of stealth.
• Fixed an issue where some skills would remove the visual effect of stealth from the player.
• Destroy Shadow Trap: This skill now has a 1.5-second cast time. It plays an effect on the thief and on the trap location when it is being cast. Added 5 seconds of regeneration.
• Hide in Shadows: This skill now only increases Blinding Powder stealth by 1 second so it is consistent with the trait’s functionality.
• Venomous Aura: Increased the venom share radius to 360.
• Larcenous Strike: This skill now steals only 1 boon.
• Body Shot: This skill now applies 1 second of immobilize. Reduced the number of vulnerability stacks from 10 to 5. Increased the initiative cost from 3 to 4.
• Lotus Poison: The recharge is now set on each individual target that this trait triggers on. Reduced the recharge to 15 seconds.
• Shadow Strike: This ability now has a distance skill fact that represents the distance retreated.
• Withdraw and Roll for Initiative: These skills now properly remove immobilize upon execution.
• Basilisk Venom: Petrify is now removed on stun break.

Fade.7658:

If the 10 second CD on SE is real, it may be there is change to another trait that perhaps, lowers this CD. They did say they were re-working some traits and abilities.

It also may be a mistake. It is Anet, after all.

10 seconds CD on Shadow’s Embrace only encourages D/P perma-stealth. I cannot see how this is a reasonable change on its own without some other factor affecting (reducing) it.

As with all things Arena Net, the only thing to do is wait until patch hits and verify changes. :(

Cyhann.2609:

xmtrcv.5236:

Cyhann.2609:

xmtrcv.5236:

Cyhann.2609:

xmtrcv.5236:

Cyhann.2609:

xmtrcv.5236:

Pistol Mastery should add Piercing also. Just saying…

But ricotched is way better than piercing.

Depends on who you are fighting and who they are hiding behind. Honestly, for as lackluster as Pistol main-hand is, we should have the option for both.

Chance to pierce (%50) + chance to Ricochet.

Sounds fun, but it might be to much RNG dependent then.

How so? Pierce might give you the second chance to hit someone (behind your target) that Ricochet might not have given you.

It also helps in that (with Pierce) now you don’t have to worry so much about your positioning around pets, clones, etc. or accepting a reduced chance to hit your intended target (that is behind them).

Wait, I thought with Ricotched the Projectiles work like the Shortbows aa, which would mean that it would hit the nearest enemy as long as he is in range, no matter
where he stands.

Setup…
Mesmer clone/phantasm is directly in front of you.
Fruity Mesmer player is creeping behind clone/phantasm.

Situation 1: No Ricochet
You shoot Mesmer clone; Mesmer clone takes damage; Mesmer player is safe.

Situation 2: I haz Ricochet! (Pistol shots have a 50% chance to bounce to an additional target.)
You shoot Mesmer clone; Mesmer clone takes damage; 50% chance Mesmer player takes damage from a Ricochet.

Situation 3: I haz Ricochet! (and if Pistol Master had 50% chance to Pierce)
You shoot Mesmer clone; Mesmer clone takes damage; 50% chance Mesmer player takes damage from a Ricochet or a Pierce.

Maybe the bullet did not Ricochet, but it could Pierce. Or vice versa. Or RNG could hate you and just stop at the Mesmer clone.

That means a 50% chance for either a Ricochet or Pierce off the Mesmer clone, not a 100% chance guaranteed that it will be one of those two.

Or at least that’s how I am imagining it. In a perfect world, I want both. :p

And yet Ricotchet > Pierce:
Mesmer stands behind the Clone, in a line with your shot, Ricotched and Pierce would
hit him. Mesmer stands right to the clone, not in a line with your shot, only Ricotched
would hit him. But of course having both is always better, and would actually fit the thief.

A bullet which splits into two when it hits an enemy, and then travels on to other enemies.

I completely agree that Ricochet > Pierce (if we had it). We don’t and I can understand why. Most likely, because of Ricochet and Pierce would be OP unless there were some limits or diminishing returns set in place, because of things like Headshot and Perplexity runes. :p

Cyhann.2609:

xmtrcv.5236:

Cyhann.2609:

xmtrcv.5236:

Cyhann.2609:

xmtrcv.5236:

Pistol Mastery should add Piercing also. ;) Just saying…

But ricotched is way better than piercing.

Depends on who you are fighting and who they are hiding behind. Honestly, for as lackluster as Pistol main-hand is, we should have the option for both.

Chance to pierce (%50) + chance to Ricochet.

Sounds fun, but it might be to much RNG dependent then.

How so? Pierce might give you the second chance to hit someone (behind your target) that Ricochet might not have given you. :)

It also helps in that (with Pierce) now you don’t have to worry so much about your positioning around pets, clones, etc. or accepting a reduced chance to hit your intended target (that is behind them).

Wait, I thought with Ricotched the Projectiles work like the Shortbows aa, which would mean that it would hit the nearest enemy as long as he is in range, no matter
where he stands.

Setup…
Mesmer clone/phantasm is directly in front of you.
Fruity Mesmer player is creeping behind clone/phantasm.

Situation 1: No Ricochet
You shoot Mesmer clone; Mesmer clone takes damage; Mesmer player is safe.

Situation 2: I haz Ricochet! (Pistol shots have a 50% chance to bounce to an additional target.)
You shoot Mesmer clone; Mesmer clone takes damage; 50% chance Mesmer player takes damage from a Ricochet.

Situation 3: I haz Ricochet! (and if Pistol Master had 50% chance to Pierce)
You shoot Mesmer clone; Mesmer clone takes damage; 50% chance Mesmer player takes damage from a Ricochet or a Pierce.

Maybe the bullet did not Ricochet, but it could Pierce. Or vice versa. Or RNG could hate you and just stop at the Mesmer clone.

That means a 50% chance for either a Ricochet or Pierce off the Mesmer clone, not a 100% chance guaranteed that it will be one of those two.

Or at least that’s how I am imagining it. In a perfect world, I want both. :p

Cyhann.2609:

xmtrcv.5236:

Cyhann.2609:

xmtrcv.5236:

Pistol Mastery should add Piercing also. ;) Just saying…

But ricotched is way better than piercing.

Depends on who you are fighting and who they are hiding behind. Honestly, for as lackluster as Pistol main-hand is, we should have the option for both.

Chance to pierce (%50) + chance to Ricochet.

Sounds fun, but it might be to much RNG dependent then.

How so? Pierce might give you the second chance to hit someone (behind your target) that Ricochet might not have given you. :)

It also helps in that (with Pierce) now you don’t have to worry so much about your positioning around pets, clones, etc. or accepting a reduced chance to hit your intended target (that is behind them).