Guild Wars 2

Krude.7495:

zapv.8051:

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Ok, you know the skills, but did you know after exiting Plague (early), you still have the stability? Perhaps “perfect” is saying a bit much, but anything that gives response-time is all it can take for a skilled player. MM’s for example have quite the advantage of hiding behind their minions, condimancers have the advantage of high vitality + condition damage, and hybrids have their own strengths and weaknesses as well. That being said Plague can fit in with those builds just fine.

- I also can’t really defend some moves in WvW, because mobility is nice; and with flesh worm I’d definitely agree, it has no place in it. I am also more of a victory or death play style, so retreating isn’t always the best option for me.

Again, I will mention Plague Signet. (theoretically)There’s your first stun-break, and second, you have spectral walk (according to you); there’s your life-force needed to fear/blind/DS (or whatever works) and last another few seconds (giving you time to respond) <- My strategy is: plague signet, well of vulnerability, and spectral grasp (not always in that order) – just to add a more unique/difficult play style. Even if SG doesn’t pull, the extra life-force is much appreciated. (and spectral armor will activate at 50% health – with the 20 in soul reaping that I run.)

A specific thing that I like about GW2 and class diversity is that most skills available to each class, and the ways they can be empowered/traited makes sense. Ele’s have their ways of getting stability, and so do Necro’s and Mesmers – seems fair to me.

As for mobility, necro has perfectly decent access to swiftness, not so much with dashing attacks such as many other classes, but that makes sense, concerning the concept of the Necromancer – raiser of monsters, plaguer of conditions, inflicter of fear and corrupter of boons and statuses. (’nuf of that..)

Lastly, runes are the finishing touches to a build, it’s the finishing polish; and it’s also not the only way to “have what other classes have” – which isn’t even the point of the classes. So I would completely disagree and say that it definitely does increase build diversity. What ele runs Nightmare runes? and What engineer uses Traveler runes? Build diversity is very difficult to attain when the amount of exhibited, differentiated builds are so limited and rarely shared with many people. (because many people who theory craft their builds have pride in being different – myself included)

No leaving plague early removes the stability as you can test by pressing your elite twice. I would be very happy if this was the case because half the time I need to leave plague early, but unfortunately it isn’t. Every build has advantages obviously, warrior healing signet builds for instance have absurd regen, decap engineers have knockback. Plague does work pretty well for all of these builds.

Other classes don’t have to run 2 stun breaks to be effective because they have blocks, stealth, invulns, and dodges. We have to sacrifice our other great utilities so we aren’t cc chained.

Ele’s have mist form, and great mobility (although they are currently still underpowered often in survivability). Mesmers have invulns, reflects, vigor, and stealth, so equating our stability access to theirs is kind of ridiculous.

Simply put necros swiftness access is difficult compared to other classes. Spectral walk traited is amazing don’t get me wrong, but warhorn often slows you down ooc more than it speeds you up. Even then you have to invest in boon duration if you want perma swiftness that other classes get easily.

Runes are not the finishing touches to a build. The runeset your running is incredibly significant to your build. Runes of perplexity, balthazar, nightmare, and strength are often build defining. Sacrificing stats, and effects for swiftness, or vigor is extremely significant to your build. Saying otherwise is ludicrous to me. Build diversity is limited because of what works, and how lazy people are and nothing else. Many people never change builds because they are way to lazy, and say what they have works and don’t feel like changing it. The people who do actively build craft or even adjust to the meta use what is best. Currently as you can see in the tournament necros get focused down very easily because they lack easy access to stability. Very good necros have described necros as being completely dependent on their teammates to survive because they don’t have sustain, stability, active blinks, stealth, invulnerability, block, or vigor. Simply put until necros get stability, sustain, and more viable power weapons they will be forced to spec completely for damage in high level play. That isn’t build diversity. As for hot join, or spvp I could probably run any build and do alright because it isn’t competitive. WvW is similar.

Then it’s easy, if you want to frontline and tank play a guardian. If you want to do absurd amounts of damage with staff then pick and ele.

Krude.7495:

zapv.8051:

a t s e.9614:

Necro ? Stability ? What? Give warriors stealth then .

Any kind of explanation, rational, or thought at all behind this. No, ok then stop coming into this forum and trolling.

Necros should have the best access to stability in the game imo. We aren’t mobile, don’t have easy to access teleports, don’t have easy to access swiftness, don’t have blocks, don’t have invulns, and don’t have extra dodges. There is only one way a necro can walk out of a fight, and that’s if they kill everyone else there. We need some stability on an active skill because unlike every class besides gaurdians we can’t really leave the pocket of a fight. Once your in your in, and if your getting chain cc’d your not going to make it very well.

Umm… have you ever played necro? or just MM?
Death Shroud #2 (dark path) is a teleport, Spectral Walk (there’s your swiftness) has a teleport (if used properly), and lastly, flesh worm can be destroyed for a teleport to it’s location (which is perfect for CoF p1). Warhorn is also an ok go-to for swiftness.. And do you realize what you’re saying? Why should a light-armored class have heavy access to stability?.. that just doesn’t make sense to me.

And plague is pretty much the perfect defense for CC, you get stability, and you can blind spam to pretty much not get hit at all for the duration of the skill (unless they range/kite you + conditions can slowly be applied as well – but conditions are hardly a threat to a necro if you know how to handle yourself and have the appropriate skills/utilities).

If you want more dodges, there’s always sigils of energy and runes for vigor on hit (can’t remember the name off-hand, sry). Lastly, I don’t think that guy was trolling, to me it sounded like a funny, valid response to necros and consistent stability. Stability is not at all the strong point to a necro and neither should it be. (my opinion, you’re free to feel different – I won’t judge)

LOL I build craft constantly so telling me which skills the necro has, and what their utility is makes me laugh. Dark path is a teleport to a target, which is ok when fighting, but terrible for escape. Spectral walk is an amazing skill that I actually trait for, but its functionality is limited, and most of the time it still won’t allow you to get away from smart players. Flesh worm is 1200 range, you have to have it presummoned, and make sure no one kills it. In WvW where I play it isn’t worth it. A light armor class should have the heaviest access to stability because unlike warriors and gaurdians, we don’t have invulnerabilities, or blocks, and have to work way to hard to make the movement skills we have worth while. Furthermore, we don’t have evades skills, or stealth like ever other light and medium armor class. That is why we need stability, our in combat movement is terrible, or out of combat movement is subpar, and we don’t have good(i.e. instant) teleports and evades.

Especially comparing us to a warrior though is absurd. Warriors run one weapon, and have great damage and great mobility (greatsword is actually the highest dps warrior build again).

Again, I realize plague is a skill, but 20 seconds of blind spam is not equivalent to good defense, or sustain. It makes me question why you think you can bring up a 180 second cooldown elite as “perfect defense.” It is one of the best elites in the game don’t get me wrong, but you can’t call something with that high of a cooldown the perfect defense.

To your last point, classes should not have to spec into specific runes, and traits to get things every other class has. Every other class has access to vigor, but necros don’t. Another example is with mesmers, they are the only class that has almost no access to run speed bonuses. They shouldn’t have to spend gold on runes to reach a reasonable run speed. That kills build diversity while also leaving one class in the dust. Giving necros better access to stability would allow us to sit in the pocket without getting cc chained to death which is what happens now. It would allow the class to prevent being focused so much in pvp, and open up tanking builds that didn’t center on 30 in soul reaping.

Warriors are boring. If you want something really entertaining play a elementalist, but be prepared for a challenge.

a t s e.9614:

Necro ? Stability ? What? Give warriors stealth then .

Any kind of explanation, rational, or thought at all behind this. No, ok then stop coming into this forum and trolling.

Necros should have the best access to stability in the game imo. We aren’t mobile, don’t have easy to access teleports, don’t have easy to access swiftness, don’t have blocks, don’t have invulns, and don’t have extra dodges. There is only one way a necro can walk out of a fight, and that’s if they kill everyone else there. We need some stability on an active skill because unlike every class besides gaurdians we can’t really leave the pocket of a fight. Once your in your in, and if your getting chain cc’d your not going to make it very well.

Spectral Grasp is great, the life force gain is absurd. 15% or 20% in like 1.5 seconds is way faster than anything else.

Duleshna.7430:

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I completely agree, a lot of our traits are in trees that don’t give stats that help them. For instance, we only have 2 traits in Death Magic that give Boons. That’s the boon duration tree. I’d like it if they moved some of our traits that give boons (which isn’t a ton) into the tree that makes them better, and then move other traits out of that tree. Seeing Death Shiver in Spite for instance would make since, and be awesome.

Mickk.6875:

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Hmm the build editor I was on read differently, but I’ll take your word for it. The problem still remains that getting hit 5 times while under 25% health probably means you are dead. I guess it kind of synergizes with death shroud, but I still don’t think it’s good for a grandmaster minor. Like I said it was a rant, but it has to be among the worst traits in the game for the point investment.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

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Ya fair enough if you could get 10 stacks by going into death shroud at 20% health it might not be bad. The issue I find is that the trait is very reactive instead of proactive. Necros already have an end waited dps boost in close to death. It would probably be better if we could get a front loaded one.

Roe.3679:

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Really, because if enough people are dieing to give you a decent amount of health you have probably already won the fight.

Norjena.5172:

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I would like something like that.

Bhawb.7408:

The only issue with the 5/15 minors is that they are a bit strange to have in the tree.

The 1 point minor is bad, simply put if someone has died I probably don’t need health as much as I would have needed a faster kill. The 3 point is ok, but really shouldn’t be in a dps line.

spoj.9672:

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As above I still don’t like the 5 point, but agree with your other opinions.

The real issue is that the 1 and 3 point minors don’t fit, and the 5 is really underpowered for grandmaster level. I’d like to see some kind of group might stacking, Death Shiver, or a flat power boost in death shroud replacing these because currently they don’t have much of anything to do with Power or Condition Duration.

Do people who main warriors realize other classes have weapons that are seriously terribly bad and never used? Greatsword is a very versatile and high damaging weapon already, and you want more buffs for it? Why not rifle, or mace mainhand?

Bhawb.7408:

It is definitely annoying to get trained down, which is why I generally use Flesh Wurm as my stun break. But that’s just trying to play around an issue we shouldn’t have.

I agree we need stability, but this will bring very big nerfs to this skill, stability has a fairly large “power budget” in a skill. Just give us a new skill that fills this function, without muddling other skill uses.

^This, currently the skill is awesome and works really well with almost any build. I think it is the go to stun breaker for a lot people. Giving it stability would result in it getting the nerfbat. Especially because with spectral attunement and 6 seconds of stability this would become a 9 second stability with no boon duration. Then you could also proc it with 15 in soul reaping, which would inevitably lead to a huge nerf to the cooldown, boons and lf generation.

This skill has become incredible with path of corruption. I’ve been running 0/6/2/0/6 and 6/6/0/0/2 power builds with spectral utilites and the 2 boon removal and chill is amazing. It provides many needed cover conditions, and severely weakens enemies.

All 3 spite minors aren’t cohesive with the line, and don’t do enough relating to power (aka doing more damage) or condition duration(need conditions for it). They simply don’t make sense where they are at. Furthermore, they aren’t good traits period. Gaining health when you kill a foe is somewhat useful in wvw, but everywhere else people don’t die enough to proc it often. Healing power isn’t that useful in a damaging line (There is a healing power line for that), and while it can be useful in a well build with well of blood there shouldn’t be forced healing power on a class with minimal healing power skills on a normal build. Far and away the worst is the Grandmaster Spite minor Siphoned Power. One stack of might for dropping below 25% health. Literally 1 stack of might, that’s 35 power for falling below 25% health. To me it is quite possibly the worst trait in the game because it has such a minimal impact and you invest 25 points for it.

I realize that was a massive rant, but Anet needs to change the classes traits in this game to actually fit the tree that the trait is in. Furthermore, the traits need to have real value because there are too many traits that are either far too niche, or are simply outclassed in every way. If they changed these 3 traits to benefit group dps, or give us a serious power boost then maybe necromancers would be more viable in dungeons, and the power builds might become even more prevalent especially in higher level play. I would suggest might or vulnerability stacking, but anything that increases dps instead of giving us healing and 35 power would be preferable to what these traits are now.

As far as on demand stability I’d much rather see a trait attached to signets. Currently, the spectral utilites are actually pretty strong, and with path of corruption I don’t feel bad going deep into curses on a power build to get spectral attunement. Combine that with spectral mastery and spectral armor is really really strong. Especially if you go 5 more into soul reaping cause then you have 2 spectral armors generating an absurd amount of life force.

If they attached active stability to signets or a signet, fixed signet of vampirism, and gave us 1 to 2 more signet traits on top of that maybe someone could make an effective signet build. The real ringer of putting stability on signets is that it opens up build diversity because most builds will take at most 1 signet (spite, locust, or plague), and this would give them a big buff.

Carighan.6758:

nekretaal.6485:

Wail of Doom —- Warhorn #4. —- Too long of a cast time and cooldown for too little effect, and wonky targeting

This is curious to me as a Mesmer but I guess it’s the complete difference in classes: I have a 1s lasting line-daze, to which I consider my Necro’s 2s lasting CAE daze substantially superior. Much easier to hit something with due to the cone.

It could use a blast finisher, but I think most necros think that skill rocks. Especially when you trait for 3 second daze.

alamore.1974:

Its a fine hybrid weapon. Just because all u beleive is meta doesnt make.it so. I hit 3k with feast on corruption on a ten sec cool down. Along with poison on AA to deal with signet wars i will have to test in wvw( the build) ill have to buy some gear to fit the build, buts it viable.
6/6/2/0/0
II,VIII,XII (or parasitic contagion.
V,VII,XI
V
Consume. Conditions
Blood is power
Corrupt boon
Epidemic
Lich form,

Sorry but you lose a lot of credibility when you say someone should take Lingering Curse over path of corruption in WvW. People run condition clears so it is a complete waste. Also, your in WvW without a stun break at all? All I can say is good luck.

The issue is we have 4 traits for staff spread out across 3 trait lines 3 of which are master tier. No other class is required to invest 60 trait points to max out a weapon. At the same time the traits they get are better. Many traits give a %10 damage increase and cool down reduction, or a cool down reduction and a secondary effect. There should only be 2 staff traits, and I personally want to see a trait open up in death magic, so we can get more boons in our boon duration tree.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

zapv.8051:

Signet of Vampirism: Someone broke it down in the Necromancer sub-forum, but this skill is just bad. It is never worth it to take this skill over other necro heals, and, as with necro life-steal, doesn’t work well enough in a sustain build. I would go as far as to say this is the worst healing skill in the game because it never has a use and doesn’t fit into any real build..

I broke it down on this sub-forum

Oh sorry thought it was the other one. Thanks for doing that btw. I’m to lazy to look.

I’m only going to comment on my main, a necromancer in the interest of time.
Axe 1: Axe 3 is great and axe 2 is ok, but axe 1 is flat out terrible. It doesn’t stack enough vulnerability to justify the terrible damage.
Staff 1: Like the elementalist staff 1s this skill doesn’t move fast enough, and doesn’t do enough damage. Coupling that with the long cooldowns on the staff skills and you can understand why this is lackluster.
Dagger 2: Many people on the necromancer forums will argue this, but dagger 2 doesn’t do enough to justify its huge channel. I’ve said before it needs to be a short cast time skill do go along with the high damage, high speed auto.
Dagger 3: Basically it is Pin Down without bleeds, at lower range and without piercing. Same cooldown and everything.
Corrosive Poison Cloud: As Drarnor said, it only really has one use. Not enough damage, and it’s to easy to walk out of for the 40 second cooldown.
Signet of Vampirism: Someone broke it down in the Necromancer sub-forum, but this skill is just bad. It is never worth it to take this skill over other necro heals, and, as with necro life-steal, doesn’t work well enough in a sustain build. I would go as far as to say this is the worst healing skill in the game because it never has a use and doesn’t fit into any real build.

Other than that most necro skills are good, but not op.

Middzz.1490:

Why?..given there situation sounds good strategy.

Its 3 teams directly or indirectly one server will be picked on.

That they have possibly formalised this is not a reason to penalise.

Given their situation? you mean out numbering darkhaven at least half the time? At the time this was posted darkhaven had recently papered GoMs stuff. Right before this darkhavens keeps where the only ones with waypoints. Now when it is Blackgate with far and away the largest coverage it’s fair to get organized against them, but darkhaven is rank 3 in bronze. It’s absurd that the rank 3 team is getting double teamed because one server is clearly more focused on staying at 2 then at beating one.

30/30/0/0/10 d/d and staff Soldiers armor and weapons zerker trinkets. Spiteful Spirit, Chill of Death, Close to Death, Weakening Shroud, Spectral Attunement, Path of Corruption, and Spectral Mastery. Consume Conditions, Spectral Walk, Spectral Armor, Flesh Wurm, and either plague or flesh golem.

Depends on the game mode, if you are in doing pvp or roaming wvw engis are the $417!!!!! They have some good vuln and might stacking builds in pve, but those are hard to play. They can be good in a zerg, but sadly aren’t in the Warrior, Guardian, Necro, Ele meta.

Thanks so much, now I know to run sigil of life on my necromancer thanks.

Solori.6025:

zapv.8051:

Kilger.5490:

Gotta agree, hammer warrior is pretty cheese. Thats why they are so prevalent in wvw now, hammer trains everywhere. Just mauls everything in its path. Sure you can avoid it but anyone that isnt playing at a very high level of ability is just steam rolled. Pretty funny actually, needs fixing tho.

Pretty much this ^, you can call it a L2P issue if you want. The problem is it’s only at very high levels that people become very good at dealing with hammer warriors. Before that it’s just a steamroll.

On a mesmer
It doesn’t take a very high level..
It takes an understanding on what melee range is.
and for that mesmer to not be AFK.

Actually even not on a mesmer..
IF you know what your dodge key does you can get away from pretty much all of a hammer warrior’s attacks.

No it is actually quite hard to have more than a dodge every 8 seconds. There are 3 knockback on the weapon so unless someone blows their long cooldown invulns or stability they are going to get stunned. Also, hammer has more than 50% cripple up time so your other point doesnt hold up well when combined with warriors absurd mobility.

you didn’t lose attack. They removed the attack stat from the menu all you have now is power.

Kilger.5490:

Gotta agree, hammer warrior is pretty cheese. Thats why they are so prevalent in wvw now, hammer trains everywhere. Just mauls everything in its path. Sure you can avoid it but anyone that isnt playing at a very high level of ability is just steam rolled. Pretty funny actually, needs fixing tho.

Pretty much this ^, you can call it a L2P issue if you want. The problem is it’s only at very high levels that people become very good at dealing with hammer warriors. Before that it’s just a steamroll.

Tim.6450:

Like ronpierce said it is already possible due to a bug, and yes you can enter DS almost a second after you entered this way (use of spectal grasp).
On topic I’m even for no cooldown on DS, since we already limited by a life force restriction of 10%, but with an ICD “on entering DS traits” and “on leaving DS traits”.

I’ve also considered this, but then I wonder if DS becomes a weaker version of engineer kits. I also realize that when you lose all LF you can re enter if you gain more than 10% instantly. The problem with that is that it is a bug, and there is another bug where you lose more health then you should when someone attacks you with an attack that would remove the last of your life force.

Bhawb.7408:

This introduces balance issues, not to mention it really hampers counterplay and doesn’t add any really interesting play on its own. Basically all that happens now is that DS has to be bursted through immediately, to actually give the necro a period of weakness (the 10s for them to build up more LF), or the necro will just sit in DS until their LF generation CDs are up, blow all of them quickly, hop right back in to DS.

I’m against this because of the inevitable nerfs that would come along with it, especially with the new trait coming. It just isn’t worth making DS worse than it is now.

The real reason I have issues with the current system is that anet claims they want us to stay in deathshroud, and the new traits support that idea. The problem with that is we have at least 5 traits that only apply when entering or leaving deathshroud. The best example is foot in the grave. You have to trade off having high stability uptime for the mechanic that is supposed to be our sustain. That’s a trade off that classes with good sustain never have to make (Guardian and Warrior).

To give necros that kind of sustain, which they should have considering we have far and away the highest health pool, and are supposed to be the attrition class. So either all the on enter/exit ds traits should activate on enter and exit with an ic, or they should implement what i suggested above. If you disagree with this then please answer the following question:

Do you currently think it is fair that we have to trade high up time on fury, stability, and retaliation for what is supposed to be our sustain mechanic? If so how would you go about implementing a fix for this? Otherwise why not?

By making the cooldown start when you enter deathshroud instead of when leaving deathshroud, the clunkiness of the mechanic would be significantly reduced. Traits like that proc when entering or exiting DS would become far more desirable. It would also make our profession mechanic feel more like a mechanic and less like a transform (if they also let us do intractables in DS that’d be great too).

Does anyone have thoughts on this? Would it be op to be able to spam out of deathshroud and back in with traits like Deathly Invigoration? If your completely against this idea, Why?

Maugetarr.6823:

Could be changed to be something more like this. It would trade the channel time for the range, but would fit in nicely with dark pact.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Vampiric_Bite

or maybe this is that CD is too low for you

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Vampiric_Gaze

Pretty much this ^, it would make the weapon more fluid overall as opposed to the slow channel that currently holds it back.

Maybe you could run 0/0/10/30/30 after the patch with ritual of protection, well cooldowns, trasfusion, deathly invigoration, Unyielding Blast, near to death, and Renewing blast. I’ll be trying this with some clerics soldiers mix, and it’ll probably work well enough in WvW. I wouldn’t get hopes up that necros will be the new eles any time soon though.

Also, anyone who thinks siphons are in a good place either doesn’t understand what being tanky means, or hasn’t ever actually tried them. Vampiric, and Vampiric Precision simply don’t do enough to give necromancers reasonable sustain. To give an idea most classes have a master level trait in their healing power line that heals at least 100 per second. Necros need 3 traits to hit that level, and don’t have near the level of damage mitigation other classes do.

I’ve tried building a support necro, and it will probably be stronger after this patch. Well of Blood scales ridiculously well with healing power, and the new GM will be pretty strong in WvW. The problem is that necros don’t have aoe boons like Gaurdians (or much at all for that matter, the boon duration line has 2 boon giving traits). Until they introduce new utilities or weapons or drastically rework the current weapons and traits I don’t think that will change. Eles would be as viable as Gaurdians, but they don’t have the base survivability that Gaurdians have. The problem overall is that no other class can bring survivability, heals, and group boons like a Gaurdian. If they could people would probably be shouting OP because they aren’t used to it. If this is ever going to change other classes need better group support. Specifically necros, mesmers (not utility), and rangers group support is super weak.

When they buff a lot of other weapons on all the professions (including warrior), then maybe they should consider buffing greatsword. As it is now a weapon with this much utility, and usage shouldn’t be buffed when there are many weapons that are rarely used. For instance, I never see mace main-hand warriors, so why should they buff greatsword before mace? If arenanet wants to promote build diversity as they say they should buff the weapons that are never used first, and then maybe think about the ones seen everywhere.

My problem with this skill is that the heal doesn’t do anything when just about any class will out damage the heal over the course of the skill. Also, main hand dagger as a whole needs to have something that complements the speedy auto and this doesn’t fit it. The auto-attack is fast and deals a lot of damage. This skill is slow deals way less damage than the auto in it’s 3.5 second cast time, and isn’t in melee range. It should be a 3/4 second cast melee attack that steals health from up to 3 allies in the area. That way it becomes quick, which it needs to be in melee combat.
I also have massive issues with Dark Pact because it is a much, much weaker version of pin down. Same cooldown, longer cast time, doesn’t pierce, shorter range, and doesn’t stack bleeds. How is a melee necro supposed to complete when main hand dagger’s synergy is non-existant. Necros have one skill that is less than 600 range in the game and that is the dagger auto attack. Make the whole weapon melee range, then make it cleave. Then maybe we will have a more viable front line WvW power build to go with our massive health pool, aoe blinds, and death shroud.

EDIT:(forgot about warhorn as far as below 600 range, but still no high damaging single target melee options)

Well if they leave combat, and your low on deathshroud or everything is on cooldown you could waypoint. Otherwise, you’ll see why solo roaming on necros isn’t easy. People in the Balance forum act like we can actually stop people from escaping with cripple, chill, and dark path, but the truth is it’s almost impossible. Even 600 range on a leap is more than we can make up easily. It’s the drawback of the class.

Necromancer: Axe and dagger. NO CLEAVE FROM THE ONLY POWER WEAPONS NECROS HAVE.

Elementalists got over nerfed about a year ago. Warriors are still abusrdly overpowered in every game mode for much less effort than the other classes. Rangers, Engis, Mesmers, and Necros all have a lot of bugs still, but overall I feel the balance patches are moving in the right direction. I would appreciate if they worked on really specific things very quickly and released that as soon as it was done. Instead of one big patch release a bunch of little ones. I’m already pretty sure they have a dev team for balance and one for new things, so you would still see several big updates that released new skills or weapons. I also think we need new skills and weapons to give the game some freshness, that along with pvp gamemodes and a new wvw map. Then I’d be happy at least.

lol necromancers have:
signet of locust (sacrifice an invaluable utility)
flesh wurm (again 1 utility for a one time teleport that you have to precast)
spectral walk (really good skill)
Warhorn 5 locust swarm (often makes you run slower because it hits something)

While gaurdians are slow at least they can maintain swiftness more easily and have leap skills. Also, while mesmers are slow ooc they have lots of dodges and staff 2 is a leap skill on a 8 second cooldown.

30/20/0/0/20 #thread

The easiest way for them to fix this skill is to simply remove the icd on both the passive and active. Then give us another signet trait after they merge half the crap weapon traits we have. Some of these would require too much time to implement.

This will open up a ton of different options. Condition tanks with 6 in spite, healers with 6 in blood magic and soul reaping, straight up bunkers with 6 in death magic. This patch opens up a ton of different options. Even the knew curses trait is severely under rated. Two boons into conditions every 15 seconds already seems highly underrated.

Carrion will now be way better than rabid for condition builds. One seconds bleeds aren’t going to be as valuable as the power damage because dhummfire won’t proc on crits. This is also probably why they gave it a 3 second burn instead of 4.

I think with unholy martyr and renewing blast they are trying to give us more backline support. 0/10/0/30/30 could work as a healer for the front line zerg. That would be in full clerics gear. I feel unholy sanctuary kind of illustrates a disconnect between the devs and necromancers. They should have tied healing in death shroud to siphons. Giving us the regen boon simply doesn’t do enough.

Path of Corruption is interesting. If we had a melee condition weapon it would be extremely useful, but condition necros don’t generally want to go into harms way. Having said that 2 boon strip on a short cooldown is really strong. Parasitic Contagion is also extremely interesting. I always felt like siphon type traits where for condition builds more than power builds simply because power builds had more life force regeneration. Carrion and Dire builds with this trait, terror, and possibly points into death magic instead of soul reaping could be interesting. From a build diversity perspective these do sound useful and could open up a lot of builds, but they might be held back by the devs unwillingness to give anyone something too strong.

Unholy martyr is op as hell. 25% life force every 3 seconds in wvw. That along with unholy sanctuary will be really strong.

Just gotta say, there have been many many threads complaining about how overpowered conditions are. Then one class gets a gm that gives them 3k more health directly countering condition builds and complains about it.
#gw2forumlogic

To remove the passive effect, make it something like.
Passive: gain health when using a burst skill something like 2500 health per burst skill.
Active: gain 800hps for 10 seconds
cooldown 25 seconds

If i remember correctly a warrior can get off one burst skill every 8 seconds. That makes it 325 hps if used well. Then the active heals 8000 health. This is still a lot of healing overall. In say 26 seconds the warrior could get 10500 health which is a lot and still more than healing surge.

Runewolf.8456:

You still have a speed sig and you don’t really need move skills since most necros live for days despite being a high damage caster.

What other classes don’t realize is that utilities define the necromancer more than other classes. When your running well of suffering and well of corruption your doing a lot more damage then if your running signet of locust, and spectral walk. Most necro fields, and finishers are on our skill bars.

Also, necros have a huge health pool and so they do live a long time, but in a fight which requires sustain they will be destroyed under focus. Necromancers are effectively a giant health pool, and while they have good damage it isn’t better than other classes. At the same time they lack a lot of group buffing.

In reference to this thread, necromancer sacrifice sustain, invulns, group buffs, blocks, and speed to get a large health pool, average dps, and debuffs. As someone who plays the class avidly. I think we give up to much. If they gave necromancers more group utility and sustain through healing, or protection they’d be much better off. Saying a necromancer is fast though is a joke.

Rennoko.5731:

After the patch that nerfs burning, I think it would be fine. If it happened today, as-is, it would be OP.

I do like the idea of having that trait make it so SPECTRAL skills give stability. Maybe 4 seconds per spectral skill. That would be pretty cool.

Yea, to me putting it in another trait line on activated skills makes more sense. Not to say foot in the grave couldn’t be put in master tier, but I’d like to see more diversity. Right now in WvW all of my builds go 30 into soul reaping. Foot in the Grave, or Deathly Perception are simply mandatory for me. Personally, I want to see signets tied more into blood magic (your next attack after using a signet siphons health or something similar), and spectral skills tied more into death magic with something like this.

Overkillengine.6084:

And the complaints also ignore that 100% of a Mark effect is often less powerful than the first tick or two of other AE’s….which can make Marks completely ineffective as area denial because of that against competent players.

Basically what the whiners have to realize is that in order to make altering the current Marks to be something easier to see ahead of time; is that they are going to have to be far more devastating once they land in order to make it an even remotely balanced tradeoff to keep the weapon as a relevant choice at all.

Edit: actually no, lets definitely go along with this. I for one welcome our upcoming telegraphed instakill of up to 5 targets at 1200 range overlords. WTB new KillMark Necro spec!

Your right!!! Nerf necro marks, so they can get buffed. Here’s to a 6k putrid mark.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

zapv.8051:

LOL almost every class can 2 shot a zerker thief. It is pretty easy, when they get low on health and try to stealth interrupt them. If they have blinding powder they will use that on the interrupt. Then you just need to do the same thing again. That or spam aoe. Every class has decent ways to deal with a thief. It’s about using them intelligently. Having said that a really strong thief is hard to kill especially in wvw, but so is almost every other class with a good player.

No they arn’t

Thief in Wvw:
Evade, Evade, Dodge,Dodge, Stealth, regen, Evade, Evade, hit for 4k, evade, stealth, hit for 4 k evade, evade, stun, stealth hit for 8k.. rinse and repeat..

other professions,,*Miss,Miss,Doesn’t cast, No target, Miss, Miss, I’m Stunned & got hit for 4k, Miss, Miss, No target, Evaded, Evaded, Miss, No target, hit for 8K.. rinse and repeat..

Standard operation for me when im on thief and basicly all i do is watch my Ini-Bar.

If I saw someone doing this, I might lose the first time because they were seemingly evading permanently which they can’t actually do. The second time they’d be screwed though. My attacks would look like.

Auto, auto, auto, auto, interrupt, hit for 5k, hit for 5k, oh he stealthed, wait around, watch him backstab me, interrupt, auto till he’s dead. I guess I don’t find fighting thieves that are glassy enough to hit 8k that hard to fight.

Drarnor Kunoram thanks for making my points for me.

Lucentfir.7430:

@Drarnor Then play a thief life leech thief, you think it’s miles better then. Steal is entirely dependent on the class you’re playing against, (and are quite frankly hard to hit on moving opponents aside from the fear stolen from necro. Siphons that are missed on a thief are more crippling to their build, because kitten on venoms untraited? Where’s your damage going to come from? Forever dodge? +15 points in Acrobatics? 20 points in Shadow arts for leeching venoms?35 points right there. Carrying . Where’s your sustain going to be coming from, where’s your condition removal? You pick Sig of Malice and you won’t have evade on Withdraw. Take roll for initiative, One slot used, take spider venom, that’s a second slot used. third slot? Whatever you say it is.

So this is what you bar is going to look like?

Heal-Signet of Malice/Withdraw
Slot 1- Roll for Initiative(60s/Stunbreak)
Slot 2-Shadow Step?(60s/Stunbreak)
Slot 3 -Venom Skill(45s)
Elite-Basilisk Venom(45s)

I don’t see a weapon skill in Theif’s kitten nal that does life leech, compared to necro’s dagger, a signet designed to leech. Take venoms and you’ll lack stunbreakers(if you want RfI go ahead and take it for it’s 60s cd) you’re going to be doing much of nothing with the build you proposed,(no sustain, very very poor condition removal, lack of good stunbreaks, bad damage. situational CC, low HP, No direct damage mitigation.)

Enlighten me, and show me a good Vampire Thief build, and how it would work against real people that have at least mild knowledge of the game. and not AI opponents. Otherwise you’re just cherry picking for your arguments to say why Life leech on thief is vastly superior to life leech on necro.

The disengaging part, if a thief tries to leave they either blow all their initiative to get away, or they use Shadow Step. They have kitten poor movement speed without signet, or Consistent Swiftness Access(Dodge roll swiftness does not count), or Fleet of Shadows while in stealth.

Necro is better already better and leaching then a majority of the professions by far.

@LastDay I use Sigils, runes and food, and it all adds up decently. Food Life Steal food isn’t effected by healing power, but Vamp signet, and Sigil of Blood are. Life Siphon is great when you need more HP(More procs with Blood Sigil, Food, and Vamperisim even with the ICD)

The point of my argument against your so called “life stealing build” is that the food, sigils, and runes make up more of the health your getting than the traits you take by a long shot. That is absurd considering we have traits called Vampiric.

Also, do you have a thief because their steal is absurdly powerful against any class. They can get high poison up time, daze, boon stealing, high vigor uptime, swiftness, and fury. They don’t need a life siphoning weapon skill because they heal for more with their utilities than we do maxed out on vampiric traits with a dagger siphon. Your also talking about survivability of thieves as if they can’t stealth and run away at anytime.

To your point about a good vampire thief build, it doesn’t actually exist. Then again a good vampiric build doesn’t exist for any class. What is being pointed out is that a vampiric thief build should mop the floor with a vampiric necro build. That’s simply in terms of healing and damage.

I don’t mean to be insulting, but the build your running could be improved greatly by not investing in the bad traits that are siphons. That while keeping all the gear the same. I’m not going to tell you to change it because that is what works for you, but in an optimal scenario the words “blood magic”, and especially “Vamp Signet” aren’t involved (or Death Magic for that matter).

LOL almost every class can 2 shot a zerker thief. It is pretty easy, when they get low on health and try to stealth interrupt them. If they have blinding powder they will use that on the interrupt. Then you just need to do the same thing again. That or spam aoe. Every class has decent ways to deal with a thief. It’s about using them intelligently. Having said that a really strong thief is hard to kill especially in wvw, but so is almost every other class with a good player.