I don’t really see a balancing issue in this really. To get the longer duration, you have to give up something else.
This.
To get 100% duration, the player gives up a lot especially for boon duration. The only arguable point is (WvW wise) that +% condi duration food gives a lot more than other +% condi duration items, making higher (not 100%) condi duration achievable with little investment. You can get +50% condi duration just with consumables.
It’s not about giving up something else, it’s about hindering game mechanics.
Boon and Condition Durations are NOT a big problem right now, because the game is designed for them not to be a problem, everything is balanced with condition and boon duration in mind.But that hurts more than it helps. This is why condition builds focus on spamming multiple conditions, rather than 1 powerful one. Conditions are designed to have low durations. Design wise, you can NEVER have a build that uses only one or two conditions because of Condition Duration. The game is designed with the thought of players will carry as many different conditions as possible, so you make condition removal very frequent and more accessible.
The same applies to boons, at this rate new boon types will probably never exist. It’s fine for classes to get a bunch of different boons but it breaks the game when they can have so much for so long. Boon duration affects everything you apply, EVERYTHING. Making boon duration very useless to some classes but very powerful to others.
That is why it’s a problem, adding new gameplay elements becomes extremely hard to balance because of condition and boon duration.
So, what I’m getting is that you want them to redesign a majority of the skills in this game because you think boon duration and condition duration don’t make sense. Whether or not your point is valid, the concept of changing every single skill that applies a boon or a condition as well as 2 trait lines is absurd.
Really in depth post, read all of it and wish others would be this detailed. I really like this idea simply because it makes the class more exciting and interesting too play, which is what the devs should be focused on. I think some of the combos would be a tad too strong, but that is ok. We could get nerfed later in exchange for awesome combos. Overall really awesome post, necros (all the classes really) deserve the type of combos eles, mesmers, thieves, and engineers have.
Death Shroud cannot be allowed to continue countering other defensive mechanics. If this requires a nerf in some ways, then so be it.
Please don’t give anet any ideas. We don’t need anymore nerfs to our profession than we already have. They might do something like allow 10 percent of a heal to go through deathshroud, but make us require 50% life force for us to enter it and a cooldown time of 50%!
It is ok to take 1 step back if you get 2 steps forward. Give Anet some credit, their recent balance patches have all been on point overall. The only absurd thing I have seen recently is the nerf to Well of Blood. If you aren’t willing to accept some nerfs than the class will probably never see the buffs you want. Either that or they will get the buffs and then get massive nerfs later because it is too strong.
The heal is decent, but I’d like to see a high hps heal for necros. Well of blood sucks now, SOV is a joke, and blood fiend is pretty bad as well. It would be nice if all 3 of those could get a buff. I think about my ele, or thief, where I have 3 good heal skills depending on your build and I get kind of angry. I haven’t had a reason to take Consume Conditions off my bar since they nerfed Well of blood.
At this point I just wish anet would allow all healing in DS and nerf DS to compensate.
I’d like a weapon that is like the following:
auto: either the lightning hammer auto chain with a small nerf to damage or the guardian auto chain except instead of a symbol create a small well that blinds twice.
2nd attack: 600 range leap that applies 3 seconds of chill. 3/4 second cast 8 second cooldown
3rd attack: Spin in a damaging nearby foes and releasing 8 projectiles (all directions) that corrupt one boon. 1 second cast 12 second cooldown
4th attack: smash your hammer into the ground creating a wave of arms (think grasping dead arms but a lot of them) that pull foes to you and cripple 4 seconds. 3/4 second cast 25 second cooldown.
5th attack: create a ring around you that fears foes who try to cross 1 second fear. 4 second duration. 3/4 second cast 40 second cooldown.
mesmer counters it actually.. and dd cele eles r easy matchup for mesmer in my opinion
most other proffessions got vigor on minor traits, ele has to use up a trait thingy for it (nvm didnt see u adressing that)
celestial amulet is unbalanced , i agree on that
wich water 3? u mean trait or blast finisher on dagger?
in high level play mesmer does not counter ele. in fact ele wins EVERY SINGLE 1V1 except for THE BEST engis WITH CRATE or the BEST necros SOMETIMES. comprendes? It’s op as kitten.
ele without might hits like a wet noodle, and mesmer is just spamming boon removals > ele has no real chance to stack might or regen a lot passively.
i am not saying its not op, just that the op is overreacting
he’s not overreacting. ele is so far better than every other class its not even funny.
You lost all credibility with that one. d/d would be completely on par with everything else with just a few small nerfs. They are probably the strongest build right now, but not by much. They certainly aren’t “so far better than every other class its not even funny” levels.
Mind listing the professions that have both “insta” ports and in vulnerabilities? DO you actually have an logic to support the rational that a professions is broken or problematic with out either of those?
Only classes with both are mesmer, ele and guardian, but every class except necro has one or the other.
I like how all traits are scattered across the board making it impossible to sync any of them together in a build.. because..
#Clueless
Isn’t that exactly how they are designed currently? All those traits fit well into the trait line they are in. Whether it be damage, healing or support they all fit well where they are. I’m all for feedback, but there is no need to be rude and insulting. As someone who is used to the peer review process, I can take criticism, but insults don’t get anyone anywhere.
I loved dervishes, but I doubt they will bring them back. It is hard to come up with a heavy armor class that doesn’t step on the theme of guards, warriors, or necros. Light is what a guardian is. Straight up brawler weapon master is warrior. Dark is obviously necro.
There are 4 main problems with necromancers right now all of which have existed since launch.
1: Minion AI sucks, I don’t know why it is so hard to attack my target
2: A ton of health, but no way to regen it. Worst sustain by far, consume conditions is great but has ample counterplay, and is all of the healing most necro builds have. Also the other heals suck (well of blood was good till the nerf).
3: No evades, stability, instant ports, or invulns to avoid cc. DS prevents your health bar from getting damage, but an invuln does that and allows you to escape.
4: Lack of group support through boons. Weakness, poison and chill are great, but when your in a dungeon or the other group has real condition removal they aren’t even remotely as effective as boons.
@zapv I don’t think that is a good idea since you still have the same problem: “The traits don’t consider DS’s variating cooldown”. Instead I suggest making the traits pulse in DS.
It does though. If you have an ICD of 30 seconds on entering or exiting DS your worst case scenario is leaving at 29 seconds in which case your missing out for 9 seconds. That’s better than pulsing every 10 seconds which if you left DS when the cooldown was at 9 seconds you’d be out of those boons for at least 11 seconds. Also, if the effects where on skill activation they would be much longer in duration.
zapv
That sounds a lot like a passive defense.
Every other class has a ton of passive defense through boons and healing. It is actually weird that necromancers don’t.
Anyway, I wrote up a proposal of my changes in the necro forums (page 3 right now), but as far as these traits go I’ll just copy and paste so you get the idea.
Spite:
Siphoned Power: Grants 3 stack of aoe might for 15 seconds on entering or exiting Death Shroud. (15 second icd)
Spiteful Spirit:
Changed to grant 5 seconds of aoe Retaliation on usage of the skill doom.
Furious Demise:
Now grants 5 seconds of aoe fury on activation of Dark Path.
Shrouded Removal:
now converts one condition into a boon when entering or exiting Death Shroud. ICD of 15 seconds.
Deathly Invigoration:
heal for 2500 health (1.0 healing) when entering or exiting DS (ICD: 30 seconds) radius 240
Unholy Martyr:
Life Transfer now draws conditions from allies on pulse (4 conditions) transfer one condition to any target hit with Life Blast (ICD of 5 seconds doesn’t work with Unyielding blast to remove all conditions)
Foot in the Grave:
Tainted Shackles now also bonds with allies, granting 6 seconds of stability over it’s duration to allies and the necromancer, and granting 10 seconds of swiftness at the end of the duration.
Near to Death:
reduces recharge on Death Shroud to 50%
Basically, anything that gives something you always want (healing, condition removal, and might) activate whenever you enter/exit. Anything that could be situational activates on skill usage. That way you force the player to think about the proper time to use skills. These changes would also give us better team support, which we lack now.
The best change for those traits is to change the duration and healing but give them either an internal cooldown or activation on a ds skill usage. Currently all of those traits are terrible because you only get decent boon uptime if you completely sacrifice ds which is bad balance.
Necro: Sword, Hammer, or greatsword
Elementalist: Sword, torch, axe or a bow
Mesmer: Pistol Mainhand, shortbow, or daggers
Ranger: Rifle and pistols
Thief: Sword offhand, axe maybe
Engineer: Hammer, mace
Guardian: Axe
Warrior: they don’t have much left honestly.
you know perplexity runes are too meta when people are making ranger builds around them.
Well they are the best rune for roaming, engi necro mes all have them. As a sidenote, one guy on the forum made an ele build with them, so compared to ranger which actually has good conditions it isn’t that bad.
Seriously, this along with buffing bad traits and skills should be number one priority right now.
so do pet interrupts apply confusion? Not sure if it’s worth it for me to spend money on my 4th set of perplexity runes if they don’t interrupt.
Do pet interrupts proc Perplexity runes? Just leveled my ranger to 80, got berserker gear. Now I’m moving on to a condition set preferably s/d and shortbow, but I’m wondering if pet interrupts proc perplexity runes. If not then I might need to switch to axe offhand for the pull interrupt. Any build recommendations would be nice as well.
Depend of the situation but overall no .
For example it’s the highest risk class in an outnumbered situation for obvious reason , kill or be killed …
Don’t have escape don’t mean you are a high risk class , necro is the best damage sponge in the game .
Isn’t that kind of the definition of high risk? kill or be killed?
Personally, I wish necros were a low tier health class with base 7k DS.
This makes the least sense of any suggestion I’ve heard in a long time. A profession designed around face-tanking attacks cannot have low tier HP.
If necros could generate like 50-60% lifeforce every 10 seconds in any build it would make sense. Then DS would be the facetanking mechanic it is supposed to be.
Honestly, might stacking eles and engis as well as guards keep mesmers and necros in the meta. Without those classes to counter thief burst there is no point in taking a mesmer over a thief.
…You really don’t get it, do you?
it’s how life force generation is balanced.
I do get it, and imo you’re wrong. Healing should be allowed in full while lf regen could use a buff as well. Simple as that. And I’m quite shocked to see so many necro players making such a big deal out of it.
While I don’t think it makes sense that allies can’t heal you in DS, there would need to be significant nerfs to DS to change it. Personally, I wish necros were a low tier health class with base 7k DS. Then they could give us really good LF generation, and siphons could be much stronger. The real problem is that with such a massive hp pool, necros would be really strong if they had too much sustain.
They also ignore that eles with d/d are melee as well as sword mesmers are melee casters. Both of those classes also have mobility, and a lot of damage mitigation and sustain through stealth and healing.
Because those classes have less base HP compared to necro and don’t have a 2nd healthbar. They also lack the boatload of soft CC necro has and neither have the Fear uptime as a Necro does. Necro also has unblockable aoes (+ a sweet unblockable aoe daze) that basically punish people for standing in a certain spot for too long (think of a game format where people sumo wrestle over a point as the primary game objective).
If you want sustain, pair up with a Guardian or put a energy sigil in one of your weapons. This is “Guild”(teamplay) Wars afterall.
They have less hp fair enough, they also have stealth, invulns, and vigor uptime to more than make up for that.
Really, eles don’t have soft cc? Frozen burst 15 second cooldown, frost aura 40 second cooldown, magnetic grasp 12 second cooldown. That’s a ton of soft cc right there. They don’t have much hard cc though I’ll give you that. Mesmers don’t have a lot of soft cc, but have way more hard cc than any other class. Guess you haven’t ever played a lockdown mesmer.
Also no class should have to pair up with another class to have sustain. There aren’t any classes besides necros that have to rely on another class for sustain and cc avoidance. Having one class that has to have another class taken to guard it is absurd. That means you have to justify taking 2 classes to get necros in a team. Teamplay is great, but babysitting isn’t teamplay, it is poor design.
The thing I don’t think people really consider is that on a mesmer, or thief you can disengage very regularly. Those are not high risk classes because of that fact. Sure if you jump right into the middle of a teamfight your screwed, but your also bad if you do that. Every class has builds that are high risk, but I would say any necro you see in high levels of pvp is high risk. Necros in pvp are taken for really good damage, but lack disengage, sustain, and cc avoidance. This is somewhat mitigated by taking spectral walk and fleshwurm, but most of the time SW will not give you a true disengage, and fleshwurm is objectively worse than blink, shadowstep or lightning flash. So yes, in my opinion necros are the highest risk class to play. Every other class has some sort of invuln or disengage and they are all objectively better than necromancers. If you really want me to show this I can, but it shouldn’t be hard to see that DS is not as good as invulns, and wurm and walk aren’t as good as blinks.
I don’t know if it’s possible to give a straight up 1 to 8 list, but in pvp this is pretty much it:
A tier:
Ele
Engi
B tier:
everyone else
in pve the list looks like this:
S tier:
elementalist (the damage is absurd)
A tier:
Thief
Warrior
Guardian
Engineer
B tier:
Ranger
Mesmer
C tier:
necro
As for wvw, every class has viable roaming builds because that is very skill based. Every class is viable in a pug zerg because no one cares. Other than that it is still the Guardian, Warrior, Elementalist, Necromancer (GWEN) meta, with a mesmser or two and maybe a few of the other classes depending on the group.
Overall, pvp is pretty balanced.
If they didnt care about wvw and pve then why do we have some skills with split effects in spvp and wvw/pve ? Like save yourselves, healing dodge, etc.. Why was the 5 target cap implemented since it almost never affects spvp?
I said it is not broken in spvp and pve, but in wvw. Anyway, I think the trait needs a rework.
Those skills are split strictly because they are to strong in pvp which shows that they are balancing around pvp. They didn’t make the same changes to pve and wvw because nothing is op in those environments. Again, it isn’t broken in wvw. You say DS is spammable. It’s on a 10 second cooldown (7 traited), so sure it is pretty close to spammable, but the only attack that has a cooldown that low is the auto attack. Furthermore, the amount of damage is a good thing. People can be way too tanky in wvw and if there weren’t necros and eles there would be warriors and guardians with 3.7k armor that never die. Heck there are guardian builds that take 5 people attacking for 30 seconds to kill already. If anything there needs to be a buff to the amount of damage to accommodate skillful play.
I also want to note that if they nerfed this trait, necros would have 4 good grandmasters and the rest would be bad. I also want to say that this trait is at most an increase of 400 precision over the course of a fight (your uptime on DS is at most 40% on an extraordinarily good day), on a very limited 5 skills 2 of which have long cooldowns.
’if you want the Necromancer to be a caster class (…) ’
Err, sorry but where did Anet ever say that light classes are range exclusive? Or is D/D Ele now not a ‘caster’ anymore?
In the recent ready up, one of the guys said, “A lot of necros have been asking for stability, but that doesn’t fit in with our idea of the ranged caster class they are,” or something along those lines. It’s really troubling because necros aren’t mobile and don’t have stability. I don’t know what they want us to do against cc because that isn’t our stated weakness by them (they stated necros weakness should be burst damage). The other “Caster classes” have vigor, invulns, dodges, ports that don’t require setup, and really good in combat mobility. They also both have melee weapons as do we, so I don’t really know what they are thinking.
If this trait was really that strong, power necros would be meta in pvp, and they would also be heavily wanted in dungeons. WvW isn’t a balance concern at all, if it was people wouldn’t have builds that elevate an average player to a 1vs2 pro.
Well this is the Profession Balance section not the spvp one.
*Everyone one knows the op build in spvp is the fearmancer with those passive procs.
People wont stay in your wells because those are small scale fights.*In dungeons it is not an issue because with fury+banners+ranger spotter people already reach 100% or close to 100% crit chance.
*In wvw it is differente. Because it allows one to have a very high offensive power investing little on it (getting equivalent to 1k precision from 1 trait). They could split the skill in pve and spvp. If it was not so op we would see guilds running an entire build that focus all around in dropping 2 wells.
It is the profession balance forum, but they don’t balance around wvw. That’s the point.
The fearmancer build doesn’t use Deathly perception, and it isn’t op at all. Furthermore, you didn’t address my point that if this trait was actually that strong you would see power necros all over in pvp which isn’t the case.
In dungeons it isn’t an issue because no one brings necromancers into dungeons. Again you didn’t address my point that if this trait was that strong necros would be brought into dungeons solely because of how strong this trait is.
In wvw, the one place this trait is actually useful you want to nerf it. Also, it isn’t the same as 1000 precision. It’s the same as 1000 precision for a very limited skill set for a very limited time. You only gain the crit chance in DS which is limited in every way. The fact that you can use the trait to increase your damage on wells should be encouraged not discouraged. It improves synergy in a class that is lacking in that department in everyway.
Furthermore, you reduce your credibility with the statement, “if it wasn’t op guilds wouldn’t run a whole build around 2 wells and that trait.” FYI, that build isn’t solely focused around those two wells and that trait. That build also brings a wall of cc and protection, aoe blind, aoe cripple and boon strip from axe and warhorn. AOE conditons including chill, poison and fear, along with the actual DS skills.
Also, you still don’t seem to get that nothing is balanced in wvw. I regularly win 1vs3s in wvw on multiple classes, and have been for at least a year. Furthermore, 20 man organized zergs can wipe a full queue of people. If they really wanted to balance wvw they would have done it by now.
If this trait was really that strong, power necros would be meta in pvp, and they would also be heavily wanted in dungeons. WvW isn’t a balance concern at all, if it was people wouldn’t have builds that elevate an average player to a 1vs2 pro.
Which again brings me full circle to my point. Healing Signet is not overpowered based on their inherent weaknesses and the fact that it has no secondary effect, and given the context and design of the class.
Classes have plenty of options for “safe” heals as Simon mentioned. Thieves can shadow step to 1,200 range (out of the range of most poisons) and then heal. Mesmers can do the same. Some healing skills cannot be poisoned mid cast like shelter unless the skill is unblockable. To me, the odds of getting a “safe” heal is much more often than not given that classes have plenty of mechanics to do so, and the odds of somebody poisoning you mid-cast given these safe options.
The problem with Healing Signet for me is that it lacks any skillful play. Your best option is to never activate it. If it had a strong active and a weaker passive it would be a much better skill for good players while being worse for people who never want to press their heal button.
necro can fear for heal
Oh you just opened up a can of worms on that one. Necros have fear, so they can fear someone then use their heal. That’s fair enough, but then you act like warriors can’t do the same thing, fear me, the hammer as a whole, physical skills all will give you time to hit your heal. However warriors also have this wonderful thing called stability that will give them the same thing. Consume Conditions is the easiest heal to interrupt in the game by far because of the necro mechanics as a class. No other class can have their heal locked down nearly as easily especially not warriors with stability, immobilize, and stuns/knockdowns. The other classes heals are easier to hit than a warriors yes, but saying a necro can get their heal off easier than any another classes is blatantly and objectively not true.
Back to OP, Yes healing signet needs a change. It should heal for far less passively and then heal for way more actively. They never should have changed the passive value. 200hp a second is decent sustain, but they should have buffed the active to be at a value that is close to a normal heal skill or with some secondary effect (block or condition removal). Anyone who wants the skill to stay as it is where you should never activate it is either terrible at the game, and needs to improve instead of relying on easy mechanics, or is an idiot for not wanting skills to have balanced usage mechanics.
Wait, what, so you bring a hammer, and fear me and bullcharge and stomp? thats your build? tell me a trick to remove stability and survive while having 2 physical utilities please.
really, please make this be a lesson to not just liste random utilities like you can actually use them or pretend a build can have 7 utilities.
There i said it, you see no one bring physical utilities because they are useless, easily avoidable trash, compare to any of those stances. not to mention why would you bring those when you already have hammer.
and warrior does not have the ability to remove stability in order to execute his CCs. and fear me is on an such high CD.
not to mention fear me only has a range of 600, anyone farther then 400 will only get feared for 1 sec, while doom is 1200 so is staff 5not to mention necro has spec walk . and wurm teleportation.
and i never said necro can pull their heal easier then everyone else, necro is probably one of the closest class to warrior in terms of pull off an active heal.
and you clearly did not read what i posted 3 posts above you. because i already addressed on the question of stability.
That isn’t what I’m saying at all. I’m saying you have access to the same things you claim allow necros to get off their heals. Hambow has access to more stuns and knockdowns then a terrormancer as well as a stability. I wouldn’t take those utilities but if your argument is that necros can get their heal off with fears gtfo. Every class has stuns and interrupts to get their heals off and a warrior has more options to do that than necros (hambow alone has higher uptime on cc than a full terror build). My point is that you show objective bias when stating necros can cc someone to cast their heals without even acknowledging that warriors can do the same hitting. I’m not saying you should use physical skills, they are bad but if you want to talk about interrupting a heal. Consume Conditions is easy.
Also, I want to know which classes you play against that have low cooldown interrupts and stability? Not necros, not thieves, not mesmers, not eles, not guardians, not engineers, not rangers. The only class with both those tools is a warrior. That’s the only class your gonna have to worry about getting your heal interrupted regularly and worry about not being able to cc them due to stability. No other class has that toolset.
Then you go on to compare fear me to doom and reaper’s mark. You should be comparing earthshaker, staggering blow, and backbreaker to those skills. Then you brink up spectral walk, and wurm. What’s your point on those? Are you saying that stunbreaks allow you to get your heal off? Are you saying the spacing they create will allow you to get your heal off because warriors have mobility skills, and stun breaks to get their heals off. If you choose not to take them that is a build choice.
Also as far as warriors stability, they’ve got 2 sources of stability and if your having trouble executing your heal then maybe you should run both of those. Overall, warriors do have some issues getting their heal off, but arguing that they are the worst overall simply isn’t true. They have 20% uptime on stability with one utility, as well as access to immobilize if they want to create space. They also have tons of cc to get their heals off if they so desire
necro can fear for heal
Oh you just opened up a can of worms on that one. Necros have fear, so they can fear someone then use their heal. That’s fair enough, but then you act like warriors can’t do the same thing, fear me, the hammer as a whole, physical skills all will give you time to hit your heal. However warriors also have this wonderful thing called stability that will give them the same thing. Consume Conditions is the easiest heal to interrupt in the game by far because of the necro mechanics as a class. No other class can have their heal locked down nearly as easily especially not warriors with stability, immobilize, and stuns/knockdowns. The other classes heals are easier to hit than a warriors yes, but saying a necro can get their heal off easier than any another classes is blatantly and objectively not true.
Back to OP, Yes healing signet needs a change. It should heal for far less passively and then heal for way more actively. They never should have changed the passive value. 200hp a second is decent sustain, but they should have buffed the active to be at a value that is close to a normal heal skill or with some secondary effect (block or condition removal). Anyone who wants the skill to stay as it is where you should never activate it is either terrible at the game, and needs to improve instead of relying on easy mechanics, or is an idiot for not wanting skills to have balanced usage mechanics.
I rather have new sources of Stability than healing in DS. The healing skills already are weak, so healing in DS will be still weak. And I have more problems with stun lock than life.
After the newest Ready-up i think healing in DS is more likely then getting other sources of stability…
I am kind of troubled by their statements in the ready up. Necros lack stability, in combat mobility, and sustain. Personally, I believe necros need at least 2 of those, to balance them overall in the game. Necros damage might have to be brought down for 2 of those things, but that’s ok because it would bring necros in line with other classes. The problem is that Anet has said they don’t what necros to be mobile and they don’t want necros to be stable. They site that necros are a caster class and should stay at range, but seem to ignore that necros have 2 weapons that are less than 600 range, which is a range that can be easily closed by any other melee class. They also ignore that eles with d/d are melee as well as sword mesmers are melee casters. Both of those classes also have mobility, and a lot of damage mitigation and sustain through stealth and healing. Necros either need stability access on a utility or dark path to be reverted to a ground target teleport. Then they need sustain. If necros had that they could be balanced. Until then, necros will either deal too much damage or have to little resistance to focus fire.
It’d be nice if they made a few more auras from blast finishers and leaps. Dark fields could grant a dark aura, poison fields a poison aura. That would be a good start.
I wanted to make a thief build that stacked might that used venoms because of the imminent buff. Here it is:
Obviously the build has big downsides in that you don’t have shortbow, and venoms take up your utilities. On the other hand, you can get up to 20 stacks of might regularly, and sigil of intelligence allow you to hit 4.5k backstabs. At the same time sneak attack deals at around 4k damage. The build is really fun to play as you very well have the ability to lock someone down with interrupts, and immobilize while still dealing good damage and having good sustain.
1) Well you have to ask in what sense are you talking. It’s viable if your messing around in pve (as is everything). However, for any serious wvw, be it roaming or zerging, pvp, or speedruns in dungeons lifesteal is not good for many reasons. Dagger mainhand is definitely usable in pve, pvp, and wvw, but it isn’t as strong as other classes right now. They just announced a buff to the dagger 2 skill, but as far as a pure lifesteal build, it isn’t viable.
2)There are a lot of builds that don’t focus on scepter/dagger or conditions that you can succeed with in every environment in the game. Do a google search and you’ll find plenty.
3) Well yes it does, but not well enough to make investing in healing power for just that reason worth it. If I remember correctly, with 1600 healing power the traits vampiric, vampiric precision, vampiric rituals, and vampiric master will increase by 6 per hit. That is to say 1600 healing power, which is a lot, gets you 6 healing per hit. That’s a really low amount.
Shatter condition mesmer with torment runes incoming, 6 stacks for 12 seconds is like 15k damage when moving :O plus another 5 from scepter block and 6 stacks of confusion from F2.
Exactly. And some classes don’t have access to removing these conditions without speccing for this removal explicitly/going out of their way. Conditions are passive on anything to do with clones on mesmer just because they’re auto-pilot self-destruction mechanisms that apply their effect to everything except ranged-users which have to waste time killing them before they get to them.
I’d much rather just see clones get their own attack rotations which apply the effects every so often rather than on death/shatter, seeing as the class already does so much damage that way and has ridiculous condition application in the form of the two most difficult to remove and most powerful damaging conditions.
While I do agree with you, the spec won’t be any stronger than my perplexity necro with 10 second fear chains, my d/d ele with perma protection, 70% boon duration, and a heaping helping of might, or my hgh engi. There’s a reason everyone is op in wvw.
Shatter condition mesmer with torment runes incoming, 6 stacks for 12 seconds is like 15k damage when moving :O plus another 5 from scepter block and 6 stacks of confusion from F2.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhQQNAW7fl0npMtNqxINcrNytBZyKMCUHkikySGggB-TVyCABAcBAAU3Az7Pcp6PJqEUiDCQWK/o4IAM9DAIAACwMnZysMDMzZOzZOzZWIgFrBA-w
The hate will be real
(edited by zapv.8051)
In the ready up today, 10/17/2014, the devs went over a few balance changes that will occur in the next patch. They mention 2 changes:
Staff auto attack aka Necrotic Grasp: Projectile velocity increased by 50%
Dagger 2 skill aka Life siphon: Base healing increased by 25% and scaling increased by 75%
These are some good changes, Staff sorely needed this change and dagger 2 will be a much better sustain weapon now. The base healing of the dagger will now be 250 a pulse which totals at 2250 for the whole skill with no healing power.
Target’s boon duration has no effect, caster’s condition duration does.
Stackable conditions will always have 3 stacks.
Not sure about the durations, but I think it goes like this:
Fear: 1 sec
Burning: 3 sec
Cripple, Confusion, Blind: 5 sec
Vulnerability, Poison, Weakness, Bleeding: 10 sec
From a post I google searched. Mid fight it’s hard to pay enough attention to tell, but I’m almost positive the fear duration is correct.
Need it because refilling your true HP is better than soaking damage and suits necro more.
First in my opinion(adding over time):
-Reduction of LF pool by 33-47%
-Life blast cast time reduced to half a second
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I’ve had similar thought about LF pool reduction, but they would need to buff the life force generation to match the current values. I think life blast being a half second would be way to strong, necros could get 25 might and 25 vulnerability casually with that.
Unholy Sanctuary was a good start in my opinion.
It’s not over the top, but it provides a nice little bonus for the class mechanic that many wanted to begin with in DS such as self healing.
Most people will still however say its far too weak. Personally I think better scaling with possibly HP would be better.
But overall, healing in DS isn’t the overall problem. What will be the problem is of course, how much.
The thing is, if other healing sources become too good, the Necro’s sustain will be overdone and heavy nerfs will come to pass.
I like the idea of Unholy Sanctuary, but when I think about it in comparison to backpack regenerator, or adrenal health I don’t see why anyone would think it is strong. At best your gonna spend 50% of your fighting time in DS, so I think it needs to be stronger to compensate for that. As far as the amount of healing in DS, I agree that will be the main issue, but I’d rather see this change then a few small nerfs as opposed to the class staying stale as it is now.
Unholy Sanctuary should have been: You receive 25% of incoming healing while in DS.
Simple.
The problem with that is it doesn’t solve necros individual sustain problems. In group fights the class would be better, but if you wanted Unholy Sanctuary and the siphon traits your talking about sacrificing 10/14 traits just to get good sustain. IMO any class should be able to invest 6 trait points and have some decent sustain. Eles, engineers, warriors, and thieves can all do this in their meta builds.
Engineers just need a few more counters, necros are a good start, but I think a few other classes could be made to be a little stronger against them (not as strong as necros are currently which isn’t nearly as strong as engi’s would have you think).
If you read the necromancer forum, you would realize most necromancer players agree that the traits, parasitic bond, parasitic contagion, vampiric, vampiric precision, vampiric master, and vampiric rituals should all heal the necromancers base health while the necromancer is in DeathShroud. The necromancer players agree to this because necromancers sustain (not tankiness, sustain) is terrible and it is impossible to heal over the course of a fight on the class. I want to ask what other classes think of this change.
Do you think necros would become sustain monsters that are unkillable?
Do you think nerfs to other areas would be necessary? If so list them?
What other general thoughts do you have on the change?
It would be interesting if death shroud worked like the energy bar from gw1 where Life force acted like an energy bar for 4 or 5 skills. It would be like mesmer shatters except our resource would be life force instead of clones. Having said that it will never happen. Anet is pretty slow at getting work done, so a complete change to a profession mechanic would be way too much work for them to realistically implement. People are just gonna have to except that many of the mechanics in this game will never get a serious rework and for most of them a change on the numbers is all your gonna get at best.
What really need to be buffed:
- Axe: The buff was not enough – maybe increase the range or add a small splash on #1 and #2?;
- Some source to stability from Utilities (maybe 5 sec of stability in Well of power intead of 1) – I’m tired to be stun locked to death;
- Fix/change for several useless traits (like all classes need);
- Signet of Vampirism: Still not worth using;
- Well of Blood: Now is worst than before (and already was weak);
- More supportive options;
- Well of Drakness & Signet of Locust should have the CD lowered;
- Signet of Undeath: Useless like all other revive utilities;
- Some sort of way to deal with Power Ranger: Necro is the class that have the hardest way to deal with them – maybe a trait related to projectiles (make Corrosive Cloud or Spectral Wall destroy projectiles on equip)?;
- Reduce Spinal Shivers cast time to 1 sec (or even 3/4);
- Reduce Life sifon (dagger #2) cast time.These are my main problems with the class.
This is a good list, I would add that necros have more bad traits than other classes. Siphons are just the tip of the iceberg. Realistically, necros have 5 grandmasters out of 15 that are worth taking. All the on enter/exit traits force you to sacrifice DS to get good uptime on the effects they give. Then you talk about all the traits that just aren’t very good.
I also always feel like necros get ignored by the devs. There hasn’t been a single patch where they really tried to fix the problems with the class. No other class can say they have had the same exact problems since launch except maybe rangers. Necros have had traits that work against their profession mechanic since launch (siphons on enter/exit traits) and necro sustain has sucked since launch and the anet devs haven’t ever had the bravery to actually buff some of our traits because they are so worried about the class being overpowered. Then I think about all the changes warriors, eles, and thieves have had (both buffs and nerfs) and I feel ignored. Warriors can complain about nerfs all they want, but at least they get real changes. ANET HAS NEVER ADDRESSED THE SAME EXACT NECRO PROBLEMS SINCE LAUNCH.
Absolutely not, the only thing keeping necros in the current meta is fears, corrupt boon, and path of corruption. Similarly the only reason you take a mesmer over a thief is to because they can remove boons on shatter. It also doesn’t fit eles, rangers, or warriors at all. Even the current boon removal on engis and guards is questionable with respect to class design.
Stick to rabid and dire. Aim for 30% crit chance. There is a lot of different trait variations because you can be very op in WvW 6/6/x/x/x, 0/6/4/0/4, or 4/6/x/x/x are my favs. As for runes, perplexity is best, undead, krait, nightmare, and scavenging are also good. For sigils, energy, doom, torment, corruption, geomancy, and frailty(cover condition) are all good. You always want some kind of tuning crystal and koi cakes for the condition duration. Weapons take Scepter/dagger and staff or Scepter/warhorn and staff. Consume conditions is the best heal by far, elite either golem or plague for a secure stomp. Utilites can also be quite varied, spectral walk, flesh wurm, spectral wall, corrupt boon, signet of spite, epidemic (mostly for group play), spectral armor, and well of power are all good. That pretty much sums it up.
I have never needed power while roaming. The only people running enough -condition duration for it to really hurt you don’t deal enough damage to actually kill you. Diamond skin eles are rare, and I’ve found with guard stacks I can generally still kill them.
It would be nice if they changed it to something like this:
Speed of Shadows:
Grants 10 seconds of swiftness (20 sec icd)
Eles don’t need more combo fields. Furthermore, that protection duration would need to be 2 seconds or else zergs could get like 40 seconds of protection before a fight. Not too mention eles would have perma protection even easier. I’m not against an earth field, but eles don’t need any buffs right now as they are extraordinarily strong in every game mode.
I made a thread on my changes, but here is the big ones for me:
1. Make the on enter/exit DS traits either activate on a DS skill, or have internal cooldowns (obviously balance them for such). Currently these traits, more than even necro healing, work against the mechanic because they are balanced completely around spamming in and out of DS. This could also provide a chance to give necros group support in the form of boons.
2. Necro self healing in DS, enough has been said to write a novel on this topic.
3. Make elites more interesting, (nerf the auto on lich but strengthen the other skills). Give plague, and tornado for that matter, 5 skills and make all 5 of them useful. Elites should be good across the board for every class.
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