Guild Wars 2

Blockhead Magee.3092:

zinkz.7045:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Though, saying its a simple change to implement doesn’t mean that it is. Unless you’re familiar with the code and requirements that they’re using.

Stop talking nonsense.

I’ll remember to not hire you for one of my developers.

Not a problem, I wouldn’t take the pay cut, the downgrade to developer or have any desire to work at a company where they let people lacking basic logic and knowledge, make significant decisions.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Though, saying its a simple change to implement doesn’t mean that it is. Unless you’re familiar with the code and requirements that they’re using.

Stop talking nonsense.

Pridedemon.3041:

I am sure this game isn’t balanced around professions against profession.
Whenever i see 2 revs in enemy team i switch necro which pwns rev hard so yes revs are not almighty after all. They have their strength’s against some professions while lose to others at the same time. That’s pretty balanced IMO.

There were 4 necros between the 4 teams in the semi-finals of pro-league, yet despite that there were also 7 revs and zero thieves, warriors or guards, you think that makes revs ‘pretty balanced’?

Sunshine.5014:

What people need to realize is that this is a competitive game mode. There will be winners, and there will be losers.

Attempting to twist the rule so that everyone becomes winners just mean this is not a competitive game mode anymore. It will become PvE. The one who grinds the most win! I’m sure you don’t want that either.

10/10 for irony.

Yuffi.2430:

Zengara – WvW is a PVP game mode by definition. The difference is scale.

Actually the difference is sPvP works as a PvP game mode, where as WvW is so badly designed it doesn’t, which is part of the reason WvW has died off to the extent it has.

WvW is supposed to be a mass scale PvP mode with “massive battles” yet it is so hopelessly designed that the point scoring has virtually nothing to do with that, it in fact promotes actively avoiding PvP and “massive battles” – the other two servers are fighting, go put down 8 rams or 8 catas, etc and PvDoor / PvWall take empty tower from one of them as fast as possible.

Losing your keep, don’t bother defending it as that would involve an actual fight, go PvDoor something on an empty map, and then come back and PvDoor your keep later.

Or better yet avoid any PvP at all, set alarm for 3 am and go PvDoor when no one else is playing.

GW2 has a great combat system, but WvW is possibly the worst designed RvR type game I’ve ever played, to take just one aspect that relates there are other games where devs were actually competent enough to design maps that force fights, you know, the thing that is supposed to happen in a mass scale PvP game, either by making the main objectives at least as a more lane like design or by limiting what you can attack to objectives bordering areas you already control.

So for the most part the only people left who enjoy WvW, are lobotimised PvDoor zombies who consider rubbing down a door as gameplay, even the kittenty PvE in this game is better than that.

Cynz.9437:

Meanwhile engis/scrappers got gold spooned with each patch, probably because of Grouch…

Engi was probably the most nerfed class for the first 12-14 months, not that it matters, because most people should be able to work out that logically classes getting more nerfs or not is irrelevant, what counts is the end result, but I guess that doesn’t fit into your thief victim complex fantasy.

Just as for most of the game thief being perma meta, being the strongest solo carry in the game and having some of the most broken builds the game has ever seen (s/d thief at its peak was hilariously broken) doesn’t fit either.

Fluffball.8307:

Resetting MMR isn’t the solution though…

The solution was to do what actual successful PvP games do and use placement matches + past MMR to place people into different starting divisions based on their ability / experience, not make sucha joke of a “matchmaking” system that it actively creates bad matchups.

Fluffball.8307:

The way it is, you progress based on your own merit…

Except because of the system, the RNG of teammates, to a certain extent people don’t, which is his point.

Pakkazull.6894:

zinkz.7045:

snip

I would assume that, if they made it to legendary with this system in the first place, MMR largely won’t matter.

Why? It is still a grindfest, players other than the best will make it to legendary once the best players leave diamond, the playerbase is still tiny so even within divisions the matchmaking will struggle to find good matches (which will then be made worse by stacking the strongest players on one team), and like I said this will happen at every level of the game, not just legendary, how is a matchmaking system that works on the principle of stacking the best players in a range on one team anything but idiotic?

If they wanted to move better players through the divisions then they should of used placement matches / MMR history, etc to place them in a higher division, you know how actual “e-sport” games work.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

“Beginning with Season 2, matchmaking for Ranked matches will use your placement in your current league division as your primary matchmaking consideration and pair you against players who are placed in the same point range as you, regardless of the skill level (MMR) of the other people in that point range.

While we’ll be using divisions to match you against your immediate opponents, we’ll still use your MMR to place you on teams with similarly skilled players (from your division point range) to help ensure that you’re not forced to play with individuals that are of a much higher or lower skill than you.

Ultimately, this means that the new matchmaking changes will make PvP Leagues much more reflective of your actual skill, and each division will be progressively more difficult to compete in."

Really? What it looks like is that they are doing the opposite to good matchmaking in order to move better players through quicker, on what planet is that good?

What happens in diamond / legend, so Helseth (for sake of an assumed high MMR example) queues at 12 AM, then the next 4 highest MMR people in his pip range get put in his team because teams are made on MMR, they then get matched against some other guy who is at a similar pip range and has a lower MMR than Helseth and therefore his teamates have a lower MMR and you get a crappy one sided match even in Diamond / Legend.

What sort of kittened “matchmaking” system works on the basis of doing the complete opposite to matchmaking, by stacking one side? And remember that is not just going to happen at top level that is going to happen at every level of the game, laughable non-matchmaking.

I mean if PvP had a playerbase the size of DOTA 2 or something then it could work, but this is a game that often can’t even find a 5 man team for opponents when 5 ESL players queue as a team.

Lexander.4579:

the reply i gave above was meant for the rude poster in whose crude imagination everyone on these forums is supposed to be a native english speaker

Here is another word for you ‘hypocrisy’, when you start a thread with ‘clown’ devs you’ve already set the tone for your thread as “rude”, you got the reply you deserved.

And no I don’t expect everyone to be a native English speaker, but I’d expect a non-native English speaker to actually research something like this before a making a post claiming it is dumb, stupid, the devs are clowns, etc, or at least simply ask politely why the word ‘pips’ is used, unless of course they were a total idiot…

Lexander.4579:

And I have been playing LoL for 5 years where clowns devs were making up some new dumb buzz words almost every day so I know my kitten.

What? They switched it because players were using pip, and players were using pip because pip isn’t some made up word, it is used for the symbols that indicate rank in the military, police, etc, so seemed appropriate to use for the symbols used to indicate rank in PvP leagues.

Maybe if you spent less time playing LoL and more time studying / reading then you would have a vocabulary larger than that of a lemon.

Because WvW players are desperate for yet more gimmicks and for more ways for kitten servers who can’t fight to run away…

JoTur.7256:

zinkz.7045:

Qcom.3462:

If we compare the stab and cc in a large scale fight it easy to realize how the cc sky rocket. A group of 40 man need 16 stand your ground to push on 5 staff ele’s. Even if I hated the old stab because it was faceroll when we run with 60% guard now it’s worst.

Except any commander with a clue, just baits out CC, then pushes, frankly the powercreep and the level of damage is more of an issue.

Qcom.3462:

I didn’t talk about SC2 or about WvW mode. I said that a 5-10 organized don’t have a single chance now again 40 players who got the game 2 weeks ago.

You don’t talk about ‘WvW’, so what is this mystery game mode that isn’t WvW that you are playing in GW2 with zergs of 40 going against 10?

As for SC2, apparently you need that explained, so, you made some comment about ‘organised small groups’ and ‘braindead 50 man zergs’, the point I was making, was that you seem to be under the delusion that an ‘organised small group’ isn’t brainless, requires skills, etc, newsflash it is a low skilled game, WvW lower skilled still that requires a laughbly small amount of thought, that includes your ‘small organised group’, hence it is hardly SC2 a game that actually takes a brain and level of skill way beyond anything in WvW to play well.

Qcom.3462:

I didn’t talk about the people on left before 2015 but the players who were in the game in 2015 and left after the stab change. The 50% is an observation,, I don’t have the metric information . Yes, in 2014 a lot more people left the game than 2015.

The point was that WvW had heavily been losing players for a long time, even before the stab change, for a whole multitude of reasons, you read too much into the stab change.

All this sound elitism tbh. You must be the only high skilled player in the game, I am happy for you.

Sounds like you don’t read things properly, or I simply touched a nerve. You think that something like baiting out CC / cooldowns that many commanders manage to do is elitist? Probably says more about you…

Or perhaps you are upset that I call Gw2 / WvW a low skilled game, in case you missed it, I play WvW, I’m not bothered at all that it is low skilled, unlike some I simply don’t have delusions or some pathetic ego about it.

Qcom.3462:

If we compare the stab and cc in a large scale fight it easy to realize how the cc sky rocket. A group of 40 man need 16 stand your ground to push on 5 staff ele’s. Even if I hated the old stab because it was faceroll when we run with 60% guard now it’s worst.

Except any commander with a clue, just baits out CC, then pushes, frankly the powercreep and the level of damage is more of an issue.

Qcom.3462:

I didn’t talk about SC2 or about WvW mode. I said that a 5-10 organized don’t have a single chance now again 40 players who got the game 2 weeks ago.

You don’t talk about ‘WvW’, so what is this mystery game mode that isn’t WvW that you are playing in GW2 with zergs of 40 going against 10?

As for SC2, apparently you need that explained, so, you made some comment about ‘organised small groups’ and ‘braindead 50 man zergs’, the point I was making, was that you seem to be under the delusion that an ‘organised small group’ isn’t brainless, requires skills, etc, newsflash it is a low skilled game, WvW lower skilled still that requires a laughbly small amount of thought, that includes your ‘small organised group’, hence it is hardly SC2 a game that actually takes a brain and level of skill way beyond anything in WvW to play well.

Qcom.3462:

I didn’t talk about the people on left before 2015 but the players who were in the game in 2015 and left after the stab change. The 50% is an observation,, I don’t have the metric information . Yes, in 2014 a lot more people left the game than 2015.

The point was that WvW had heavily been losing players for a long time, even before the stab change, for a whole multitude of reasons, you read too much into the stab change.

Burtnik.5218:

OP complains about class stacking which will be gone. So that issue is solved.

Erm no, class stacking is not the issue, it is the result of the issue, which is poor balance, hence you have some classes stacked with 7 of them among 4 teams in the semi-finals, whilst you have other classes either barely represented like mes/ranger or non-existent like thief/warrior/guard, removing class stacking by making some rule about one class per team does not solve the issue at all, all it is, is a poor attempt to hide the issue, the laughable class balance.

It also does nothing other than make things worse for the 99.9% of the players who do not play ESL, so not only don’t have the one class rule when they play, they also have the place where the most obnoxious levels of imbalance can be higlighted (ESL) hide those obnoxious levels of imbalance to some degree due to the one class rule.

Burtnik.5218:

Toker had more than enough time to learn rev already, thief doesnt do well atm bc we have too much aoe damage ingame which is more of a problem with the game than revenant itself. Thief on it own is fine.

Not really, he just did what many players have done over the course of this game, switch to whatever is OP from something that is weak, I mean you don’t even have to be good, it is not like this game has a high skill cap, I remember long ago when a guy called Xeph who played on Team Paradigm switched to thief from mesmer for Pax qualifiers, he barely played the class, was clearly better on mes than thief, yet was far more effective on waht at that time was an OP class that he played 3 weeks, than one he played over a year, they went from losing most of their scrims to Car Crash to winning and then beating them in the qualifier.

There weren’t seven “pro” players on Rev because they all suddenly love the class, or none on thief / warr /guard because they can’t stand them, they play whatever is broken OP in order to win, if rev was nerfed down to bottom tier tomorrow, you think you’d still see all seven of those players still on revs for tourneys, no, of course you wouldn’t.

Burtnik.5218:

You also forgot to mention that in next league you wont be able to stack classes at all which means 1 rev+4 diff classes so your problem is solved right here.

“Solved” in the same way moving all the homeless people out of a city to somewhere no one sees them, “solves” homelessness.

Burtnik.5218:

Revs were actually taken as players had experience with them and had no time to learn new build/class so “teams take classes based on what players are best at playing.” and they was best..at rev

You mean like players who had played thief for 3+ years, had won WTS on thief, got MVP in WTS as thief, played Rev because they had more experience on Rev, yeah right…

Qcom.3462:

Also my cc have a shorter cd than all stabs in the game …

You mean like how static field is a 40 sec cooldown whilst stand your ground is 30 sec (24 sec in most frontline guard builds)…

Qcom.3462:

WvW so good now, the size matter more than never and the organized small 5-15 groups cannot even approach my brain dead…

WvW is “braindead” fullstop, what you think it is SC2? It is just a casual low skilled game mode, in a casual low skilled game.

Qcom.3462:

I really wonder why 50% of the 2015 community left the game after this wonderful change.

Most of the “community” had already left before the stab change in 2015, the game mode was already moribund.

Windler.4815:

When you look at wells, mesmers got the better deal…

Which is why in WvW you see zergs with 15 wells mesmers and just a couple of necros using just the one well that is actually good , oh wait…

Welcome to the world of game design where comparing one skill against another in isolation (or one set of a certain type against another in this case) is dumb.

To take a couple of relevant examples in this case, firstly you are comparing a class with huge amounts of AOE that is always usable, to one with relatively little and even much of that becomes unusable in certain situations (hint: illusions don’t work well when there is lots of AOE flying around, they tend to die).

Secondly you are ignoring things like damage modifiers that effect wells, necro has multiple modifiers for that, some of them with huge modifiers, like Death’s Perception, Strength of Undeath, Close To Death, etc, as opposed to mesmer…

Chinchilla.1785:

Indeed. Honestly it should literally buff your stats so the outnumbered side has some hope of playing. Even the larger force is being bored…but if the outnumbered force is more threatening it should in theory create a fight.

Example:
+33% to all statistics (Why not double? Doubling would mean more abuse with some of the one shot, and running capabilities of some classes. That isn’t to say it still can’t be done with +33%)
33% cooldown reduction (non-stacking)
33% siege damage (so that there is hope of capping/defending)
33% movement speed (non-stacking) (Hopefully to allow more maneuverability)

So if I mange to find a nice relatively even fight on a map, you want to completely destroy that because somewhere on the map us or our opponents have a blob on the map so the other has the outnumbered buff, no thanks keep your gimmicks, WvW already has more than enough of them.

Kayberz.5346:

Its literally ONLY because anet was nice enough to allow people to play for free that these complaints are surfacing…

Not really, instead of being honest and saying they were adding a free trial (be it a glorified one), they hyped it up as ‘free to play’, they brought the complaints upon themselves.

MirrorOfNature.4279:

Wrong, mate. You can’t just stamp a new definition on something, which already have a very clearly defined one….

Wrong yourself, it doesn’t have a clear definition, it has a subjective one.

MirrorOfNature.4279:

GW2 is not entirely f2p game and comparing it to such types of games is not a viable comparison. f2p players may look at it however they want, and tell themselves its p2w game as much as they want, but it does not make it truth. Lets talk facts here and not subjective personal opinions.

You seem to be under the delusion that your subjective opinion is ‘fact’, whilst everyone else just puts forward ‘subjective opinion’, the game was not marketed as adding a free trial, but getting to play for free, that is fact, my comparisons are perfectly valid, unlike your baseless objections that are mere empty rhetoric.

zinkz.7045:

Maybe I did got it wrong, maybe I didnt. Who can tell for sure? Of course my statement should be considered purely a personal opinion, since I have no numbers or any other information to back it up. Its a pure assumption. Much as your own statement by the way, because I somehow doubt you have the numbers to support your own claim as well.

It is not a claim, it is simple fact, it is why most MMOs go through a series of server merges over time, or why logins on MMOs that give out that info on their API like Rift, LOTRO, etc decrease over time, or why server population statuses drop over time or why revenues decrease over time, etc, most MMOs simply don’t do what WoW did for years and grow the population, they do the opposite.

Balthalzar.6243:

Please tell me game where not buying an expansion DIDN’T put you at a disadvantage.

Hello this IS A MMORPG, EVERY MMORPG has ALWAYS required you to get the expansion to stay relevant.

Well it isn’t P2W in the sense something like Runes of Magic is where basically the more money someone spends the more of an advantage they get, on the other hand I can see why people say GW2 is pay to win in a different way.

It isn’t as simply as saying expansions are required, the issue with GW2 is them marketing it as F2P when really it isn’t, it is more of a glorified free trial, actual F2P games enable F2P players to obtain expansions without paying for them, e.g in LOTRO (at least back when I played long ago and it still had subs), the F2P players could grind out Turbine points to buy the new character classes and if they were really insane enough to get the expansion, so I can see why people look at the expansion with the much stronger elites and no way to obtain that other than paying, as P2W.

MirrorOfNature.4279:

Really? Pay to win? You should go and check the difinition of the words, before you throw them around in forums. F2p is nothing more then a glorified trial, as it should be. The game is still very much PAY TO PLAY and not PAY TO WIN. It was said thousand times already – an expansion is NOT pay to win.

It depends on how you look it, I agree that the F2P is nothing more than a glorified trial, and really that is the problem, real F2P play games (P2W or not) give players a method (albeit normally a grindy one) to acquire everything in game outside of some conveniences / QOL of things, e.g – in LOTRO for example, at least back when I played, free players could grind out turbine points and buy the new character classes or even the expansions, so I can see why from a free players perspective the game is P2W in some sense.

MirrorOfNature.4279:

Simple as that. It’s an mmo game – for every 1 player who quits, 5 new players are introduced into the game.

Not really, you have it the wrong way round, unless the MMO was WoW or EVE Online for a few years, the vast majority of MMOs follow a trend of a declining playerbase, occasionally interrupted by a temporary boost in numbers from going F2P or an expansion, but overall there are more players leaving than new players joining, it’s why these mickey mouse companies don’t give out numbers other than those out of context when it suits, like after going F2P for example.

The Ace.9105:

Official tournament rules should apply to the ranked arena if the goal is to get more competitive teams.

I thought the goal was to try and cover up the laughable balance issues in the game, because it is affecting ESL/Anet’s marketing exercise, same old thing, paper over the cracks rather than fix the actual issue.

tico.9814:

Anet if you guys want this game to be esports …

You seriously believe they actually think after 3 years this game will become “e-sports”, it is a marketing exercise (which has probably back fired given the Twitch chat), nothing more.

Noob.5908:

If you are saying you have equal number of players as them when the new day starts but you can’t beat them because they hide behind t3 structures and have siege. That would be a terribly frustrating thing to deal with each day when you log in but that’s WvW not a night capping issue.

Yes it is a “nightcapping” issue.

It is not simply about a server ticking for 500+ when basically no one else is playing, it is also that a server upgrades their objectives to T3, downgrades most opponents objectives to paper, whilst no one else is playing, which has a huge knock-on effect on the score for many hours after “nightcapping” has finished and populations are more even.

BlackBeard.2873:

… scrapper is the strongest build in the game now, and would be stacked in multitudes if they allowed it…

Well according to the self proclaimed best mesmer, the class that would get stacked is rev, not scrapper.

EremiteAngel.9765:

Anet must have spent a lot of effort devising and creating the new BL.
Asking them to go back to the old BL is taking a huge step back and wasting all the time and effort they put into designing the new one.
Do you think that’s sensible? Are you asking for something that is impractical?

What? Are you 12 years old? Go look at Google and go find the list of projects they have closed down (everything from Knol to Wave) because they were not working, not well thought through, basically failures to varying degrees.

That is what an actual business does that is run in a competent manner, it doesn’t cling to its mistakes and worry they might offend some employee that for some reason you think has the level of mental development of a 12 year old and not be able to cope with the reality that something didn’t work out, just because it took time and effort.

Keadron.9570:

Everyone knows all classes need work I don’t think that has been argued.

What he argued was “Ridiculous how Anet constantly ignore that the ele class needs HUGE redesign to ever feel as viable and versatile as other classes”.

Which is of course nonsense, ele whatever way you look at it, be it over the last three years or more recently, say the last 9 months, has been more viable than most classes in PvP and equally locked to certain trait lines or amulets as some other classes (thief for example), there is nothing special about the predicament of ele, whatever the issues of the class it has still been in a better state, a better position than most and has no more issues than most other classes.

So to claim ele is constantly ignored and needs work to feel “as viable and versatile as other classes” is not only a long way from the reality, it shows a comical level of bias.

Keadron.9570:

Wow what’s with the anger?
Ele was good in the past because they gave us tools to counter the design flaws. Now those are gone and instead of another quick fix it would be nice if the class got the work it needs. I think that is what was meant

Two thirds of the classes, half the mechanics, half the maps and so on could do with a rework, there is no special disregard of ele from Anet, despite what he may claim.

P.S – since when was disagreeing, stating a fact or pointing out what people claimed, anger? Maybe stop projecting?

Sunshine.5014:

Ridiculous logic.

It’s like you say in the last 500 years, Caucasians have faired much better than their dark skin neighbors. Now let’s give them an extra 25% tax, nerf them to the ground because they were good before.

The goal is to make the current system fair. It doesn’t matter if Ele was good before or not.

Wrong, because what he claimed and what my points stem from was that "Anet constantly ignore that the ele class needs a HUGE redesign’, so this supposed sad state of ele is not a new thing, it is a long ongoing issue.

But anyway, sure let’s keep it more recent, what do we have, well we had cele ele as the strongest most broken build in the game for many months to the point ESL had to a bring in a rule to limit class stacking, it got nerfed it was still strong, then HoT hit and we had tempest still a very strong top tier meta build, and we’ve had two days since the patch and there is no meta yet, so what’s he complaining about?

Maybe he means that when it comes to high level / meta, eles are forced into certain amulets, or certain trait lines, poor eles, what a unique situation that no other class ever faces…

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

No, it’s cute how YOU don’t realize that balance or class design does not matter in pve.

Clueless…

But let’s forget that and concentrate on what you keep avoiding, other than guard, thief and maybe engy, over the last three years ele has faired better in PvP than the other classes, that is the reality as opposed to your deluded tear filled fantasy of the plight of ele in PvP over the life of this game.

Sunshine.5014:

It’s so cute of you to talk about PvE and WvW in PvP forums. Next time Necro complain about being useless in PvP, remind them how wonderful they are in WvW. Or remind Warriors how they are the top class in Raid.

No dear, what is cute is your failing to comprehend why not just PvP is relevant when someone claims the class needs a HUGE redesign, when the class has pretty much been top 3 in PvE & WvW the entire game.

And that beyond that, in the part the person conveniently failed to quote when they replied to me, even in PvP ele has overall for the last 3 years faired better than every class except Guard, Thief & maybe Engy, rather than the delusional fantasy that “Anet constantly ignore ele, that the ele class needs a HUGE redesign to ever feel as viable and versatile as other classes”,.

If you want to go see classes with actual huge design issues then go look at ranger pets or how phantasms that go down in a couple of hits are supposed to be a mesmers sustained damage option, rather than a class that as a generalisation been strong across all game modes, including PvP, go ask rangers how long they’ve been meta in PvP, how long they spent completely unwanted, or necros who probably spent a grand total of 2 weeks after Dhumfire as meta, and the rest of the time at best as ‘a good option’, poor eles, such tears, such ignorance…

morrolan.9608:

zinkz.7045:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Ridiculous how Anet constantly ignore that the ele class needs HUGE redesign to ever feel as viable and versatile as other classes nowadays do.

That is a pretty myopic viewpoint you’ve got going there, half the classes in the game have design issues, for example anything that uses AI which is basically broken to various extents on virtually every class that uses it, of course for some classes that is less of an issue than others, but on classes where it plays a big part like Ranger, Mesmer, etc it is a big problem, that has existed the entire game.

You should also get off your whinebox when it comes to ele and the entire game, where ele has been “meta” in PvE & WvW pretty much the entire game,

You mean apart from that small period of 2 years when it wasn’t.

What? Do you actually read what you reply to? You can’t of even played the game if you think ele spent 2 years out of the meta in WvW or PvE, what do you think the E stood for in GWEN, engineer?

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Ridiculous how Anet constantly ignore that the ele class needs HUGE redesign to ever feel as viable and versatile as other classes nowadays do.

That is a pretty myopic viewpoint you’ve got going there, half the classes in the game have design issues, for example anything that uses AI which is basically broken to various extents on virtually every class that uses it, of course for some classes that is less of an issue than others, but on classes where it plays a big part like Ranger, Mesmer, etc it is a big problem, that has existed the entire game.

You should also get off your whinebox when it comes to ele and the entire game, where ele has been “meta” in PvE & WvW pretty much the entire game, and faired pretty well in PvP with only really thief, guard and maybe engy faring better over the course of the last 3 years.

Whilst most other classes have overall been far more useless, in PvP ranger, necro, warrior, etc, WvW (half the classes basically unwanted for three years, whilst ele has been perma meta) and PvE where the likes of necro were basically unwanted for 3 years, whilst ele was always a top class to the point it got stacked, the sheer lack of perspective is pathetic.

Obviously it is too much, it is wrong the answer to the problem, a typical lazy poorly thought through Anet “fix”.

There is too much boon spam, that is what needed to be changed, not adding braindead passive corrupt spam like boon corrupt on autoattack, or giving corrupt boon a silly low cooldown so the consequences for using at the wrong time or missing it are minimal as it will be ready again in no time at all, more changes that lower the already low skill level of this game.

lighter.2708:

people will finally need to take some skills and l2p anything other then skillless bunker builds? yea, pvp definitely more dead then pre patch

Because boon corruption on auto attack, amulets like mercenary on certain classes, more unblockable skills for nabs that would spam into blocks, corrupt boon on such a low cooldown it barely matters if it is avoided or you use it at not the best time it will be up soon enough again, etc is highly skilled gameplay…

kuritsutian.2987:

- PvP feels way more fun overall!! fast paced, player skills makes a wider difference, tighter matches, class variety, etc… fun, fun, fun

There is only class variety because the balance patch has shaken things up so people try different stuff, in a month’s time that variety will be diminished as people work out what is strongest, see what “pro” teams use, start to copy and paste from metabattle, etc.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Tbh, after all of there’s years you should of dealt with it by now. Nothing can and will be done about it although the only channel skill that does end on stealth is rev sword UA.

UA isn’t a channelled skill, it has a cast beforehand, it simply has a very long animation.

Arnath.2319:

Marvok.1083:

Funny thing is the buffs to smite condi are bugged because it still only removes 1 condi and f2 is still affected by cc, so gj anet even the buffs you gave us are bugged…

wow really? they really hate Guardians.

Because other classes never have bugged skills…

BlaqueFyre.5678:

…Mesmers complain when they try to beat Thieves at the only role they are capable of while Mesmer can fill multiple roles and provide group utility…

That’s a nice little fantasy you got going on there, here is the reality – for the vast majority of this game, thief was perma meta, taken on every single team and best solo carry in the game, whilst mesmer on the other hand was much of the time one of the least represented classes in teams (read non-meta), required a thief to babysit them, had mesmer mains rerolling thief as even as a mediocre thief they were more use, and only ever had one role for the majority of the game’s life.

Coinhead.7591:

I only say what I have seen with my own eyes and talk about my own experiences.

And I’m saying your own experiences appear to be extremely limited so are of very limited value when you only play for 2 hours at primetime in a guild raid on borderlands on a gold tier server.

Two months ago when FSP was facing lower servers this is what you wrote:

“Come back everybody.
I am sad and alone running around fighting NPC only.”

And no everybody has not come back, quite the opposite, the server statuses are now even lower than they were, there is not a single full server in EU or NA any more and only 5 very high between the two regions, overall there are even less people playing WvW now, and guess what, on most servers, most of time the only queue you will see will be for EB.

Coinhead.7591:

I play wvw 5×2 hours every week. Only guild wvw events.

So basically in no position to talk about the overall state of WvW.

Coinhead.7591:

Server is FSP.

An example of my first point, do you not know how dead FSP is for most of the day compared to what it was? Or how the queues even at primetime these days do not compare to say 8 or so months ago?

Coinhead.7591:

Fighting guilds or zoneblobs every day. We rarely see enemies using these new banners…

Then you aren’t very observant, it is pretty common to see banners in blobs, it is also common to see guilds using them when fighting blobs, and I don’t mean a guild being vastly outnumbered fighting a blob, I mean guilds hand-holding with as many or more than the opposing blob or a guild that is fighting alongside their own blob, that is the “quality” of guilds/players these days.

rylark.3418:

Using shortbow + black powder wastes the full initiative to reach more than 3sec

If you mean shortbow into a smoke field as in a group blasting for an opener, no it isn’t wasting resources, because you build up 14 secs of stealth and generally do it some distance from the point, so have time to recover.

rylark.3418:

“a lot of resources” but it’s still an utility with a decent cooldown.

So what, it has been used a lot over the course of this game and is way more than 3 sec stealth, it is also group stealth which is another issue with stealth in this game, I couldn’t care less about your made up rules for what counts and what doesn’t.

Also what about HS into BP, maybe you are the only player in existence that has only ever used one HS, newsflash the rest us of often use more, and don’t give me this nonsense about using up a resource, backstab requires no initiative and the resource is fast regenerating, plus there are utility skills / traits to get it back quicker.

Same thing for disengaging, mesmers + thieves will happily chain stealth skills together if they need to disengage, again way longer than 2-3 secs.

rylark.3418:

Stop mentioning other invis mechanics, besides thief, since I don’t even think they should exist in the first place.

LOL so because you don’t think it shouldn’t exist on other classes no one should discuss other stealth in a thread that is comparing thief stealth to other stealth, I realise it is inconvenient when you come out with nonsense like stealth is 2—3 secs, and you have actual facts pointed out that contradict that, but no, I am no going to stop going on about other stealth, if you don’t like that, tough.

rylark.3418:

Again, don’t care about other stealth mechanics. Already mentioned that using SR or black powder + anything else uses the full initiative which is a decent cost.

And I again I couldn’t care less if you don’t care about other stealth mechanics, nor about your silly made up rules for why SR or anything else shouldn’t count, so again tough.

rylark.3418:

You just cannot argue that active skills are as braindead as passive ones…

I didn’t argue that, I simply find that often when people go on about passives, they often give the impression that everything “active” in this game is skillful and fine, which is far from the truth.

That they also ignore or seem ignorant of both the design considerations and differences between classes that mean some passives are needed for certain classes, due to design, and that some classes like thief have a significant advantage due to design when it comes to being “active”, and finally seem oblivious to the fact they are playing a casual MMO, not SC2, so the devs have to make it so classes have easier builds available, because the playerbase is going to be very mixed in both why different people play and in ability, I was just highlighting that.

rylark.3418:

Instant-teleports simply cannot be skillshots for obvious reasons, it would be just ridiculously hard to hit them as the game already gives an awkward feeling to aim at something (at least for me).

Eles manage to use their blink to hit targets (it has a 120 radius), it’s certainly much easier than a headshot in most FPS, aside from that it isn’t simply about it not being a skill shot, it is about how one sided an instant auto targeted teleport is, much like stealth.

Plus in respects it is still ‘playing the game for you’, the game is doing too much for your button press, there is frankly a lot of that on so called “active” skills in this game, like back when we had bunker guard with shout runes, one press of stand your ground, breaks stun, AOE stab / retal, AOE condi clear, all without aiming, on an instant skill.

rylark.3418:

Like I said, with wasting a lot of resources to manage such time. Are you even reading?

Since when was toss elixir S, mass invis, multiple people using short cooldown blast finsihers in a smoke field, etc “wasting a lot of resources”.

rylark.3418:

And with 2-3sec stealth …

Outside of your magic kingdom where no one in three years used elixir S toss, mass invis, stealth gyro, shadow refuge, more than one HS in to black powder, group blasts for an opener, etc over half the stealth in the game is over 2-3 secs…

rylark.3418:

I’d rather have them completely removed, I’m no fan of something doing the job for you to the point that you don’t even need to click. You’re right, something for just being active isn’t skilled, but it’s not braindead like passive is.

If you want them totally removed then classes would have to be redesigned and homogenised, so it isn’t going to happen.

Also when it comes to passives and relatively few on thief, I note many miss or conveniently ignore why thief can get away with fewer passives, as an “active” class thief is relatively easy to play because it has tools / mechancis that make being “active” very easy like a lot of low cast time skills, instant skills and no cooldowns on weapon skills.

And there are plenty of “braindead” active skills in this game, take the previously mentioned instant teleports, if I Judge’s Intervention or Steal to my opponent, nearly all the emphasis in terms of skill, reaction, counterplay, etc is on my opponent, rather than me and the 1200 range braindead instant skill I use and no checking they aren’t blocking, etc does not equate to equality of these things. (and let’s not even go into the skilless faceroll cheese that using these from that range through walls where the other player cannot even see me is)

rylark.3418:

You cannot think around just skillshots, there must be targeted skills specially for professions who specialize around that. cough thief cough.

Not really, the reason that most skills in this game are targeted is that the skill cap needs to be kept low, because it is an MMO with a casual, very mixed ablity customerbase, so they have a sort of faux action combat where the majority of it is still autotargeted to keep things easy and not place anything near the sort of mechanical demands that games with a real skill cap take like SC2, CS, etc, and then add actual blocking, dodge and a minority of skills that need to be aimed (though most aren’t really skill shots) to give a sort of illusion of real action combat, whilst keeping it very easy / low skilled to play.

rylark.3418:

Usually it lasts 2-3 seconds…

Not really, Toss Elixir S – 6 secs, sneak gyro if they stay in it any length of time much more, groups blasting smoke fields to set up an opener 10 sec+, mass invis 5 / 7.5 secs, 3 HS through black powder, chaining stealth skills together, etc

rylark.3418:

A lot of the game mechanics involves around guessing, not just stealth. Guessing when the enemy is about to use a heal,

Not really comparable as the opponent has much more info available like the health of the player, is the opponent trying to LOS / kite to get a heal off, the heal animation to interrupt (on well designed heals, instant / super fast heals are a different matter), one cooldown to keep track of, etc.

Where as with stealth you can try hit the opponent to see if your autoattack changes (which in itself is an issue for many classes weaponsets that can’t do that) and then it is just guesstimating.

rylark.3418:

Also if you actually want to bring the “skilless easymode” to the argument, I could just throw every single passive trait at you. Which by the way the thief lacks of.

Whilst some passive traits are skilless easymode that do too much, others are fairly minor and are needed due to the way classes are designed differently, none are on the level of impact of stealth, beyond that just because something is “active” doesn’t make it skilful, auto targeted instant teleports for example are pretty skilless easymode.

Regardless, two wrongs don’t make a right.

godmoney.6025:

Dare I say, because ArenaNet has troubles balancing stealth to not seem OP to inexperienced players,…

Stealth is OP fullstop, whichever class, for the simple reason it is a bad mechanic, that is impossible to balance, that at times you see ESL players flapping at fresh air for a stealthed player who is now not even in the area and making their way to another capture point, is a fine example of why it is bad, as a mechanic it is incredibly one sided, where one player severely lacks meaningful information so resorts to guesstimating.

Which is why once there was a dev studio (when they had balls) that didn’t have stealth in their game, precisely because it was impossible to balance, but they caved in to the nabs who love the the skilless easymode crutch that stealth is.

morgul.9276:

Ranger is range class…

No it’s a mixed class, like every other class in this game, which is why it has both range and melee weapons / utilites, etc.

morgul.9276:

because it’s not allowed on the 1v1 server…

Not that scrapper couldn’t do with some toning down like the silly low cooldown on the sneak gyro, but the game is not balanced on 1v1 duels.

Dano.5298:

What happened to the days were commanders would call for fields and make damage chokes which would still wreck melee trains.

That didn’t exist unless they were scrubs, any competent guild or pug zerg with half decent players and a commander who wasn’t brain dead could go through chokes in the days of heavy melee trains, broken stab and hard CC being borderline useless (hence it was all about immobilize back then).

Take inner hills as an example, if you had a melee heavy blob attacking and a ranged heavy blob defending, it was kitten easy for the melee blob, hard CC was useless because of so much stab, so many covering boons, that stab was last to be stripped by well of corruption, etc, then you add all the guards / shout warriors / ele large water etc that cleansed condies, had silly AOE healing, etc, then the invurns.

So all that would happen unless the melee bob were terrible is the melee blob stab up, invurn, etc to get across the bridge, the ranged heavy blob would be forced inside the lords room, so then just wait till stab up, maybe invurn up, and same thing again into the lords room, chokes were a joke, the only way a ranged heavy blob actually beat a melee heavy blob (that wasn’t terrible) was to split / kite, and take out eles, then eventually wear the melee blob down, that required space, and took a long time.

Which is why at points in the game you had the vast majority of players in the blob as melee, it was faceroll, pushing was was beyond skilless with the way stab negated hard CC.

Stab isn’t the problem, decent commanders / guilds are able to push melee in that respect just fine (obviously scrubs have issues, but well…), what makes the combat dull these days is the endless sniping by baddies, the power creep on damage, the running away / avoiding fights unless outnumbering the opponent signifcantly (hello French/German/Spanish servers) etc.

Zuko.7132:

Through two traits rev gains 2 stacks of stab on dodge so almost always has stab…But every third auto will put rev in almost a constant state of being feared.

Sounds perfectly balanced to me, and sums up this game perfectly, rev mindlessly gets stab whenever he dodges, the necro mindlessly corrupts with auto attack, a fine example of the braindead, skilless play that epitomises this game now.