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I know people who prefer ESO, I know people who prefer GW2, I know the majority of people are not big fans of either and play other MMOs, this thread is dumb.
your server becomes number 1 because of ppt, not fights.
When “number 1” is worthless, only PvE players, newbies who know no better or the hard of thinking, care.
So let me make sure I am following you here. You have made a few post demanding your way is legitimate and demand others here respect what is fun for others? Then you go on to attack what is fun for others? It seems to me, you do not care about respecting what is values or fun to anyone else other then using it as a smoke screen to validate your wants.
I haven’t “demanded” anything, I’ve stated if people enjoy PPT fine, great play PPT, it is certain PPT people in this thread that think everyone should play their way that are making “demands”.
As a competitive point scoring game WvW is a complete joke, where “winning” most matchups is simply a case of one server having more players online at various off-peak times than the other two, and ticking for silly amounts for hours on end when there is basically no real opposition, there is no skill or no achievement in that.
Now if you have fun playing PPT that is fine, no skin off my nose, but I’m not going to pretend that I don’t think it is laughable when people go on about being “number 1” in a game that is a total joke competitively just because you may be a bit delicate and not want to hear the reality.
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your server becomes number 1 because of ppt, not fights.
When “number 1” is worthless, only PvE players, newbies who know no better or the hard of thinking, care.
In fact some servers are actively trying to avoid being “number 1” as all it does is attract bandwagon scrubs who can’t fight, and you get what happened to the current EU “number 1” server, who deteriorated from being a really good server long ago to one made up of walking lootbags these days.
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They can go play another game is the answer.
The only people that should be playing another game is those like yourself that have zero respect for other people and want to play in their own little dictatorship, where everyone must play the way you do, there are games with private servers for people like you.
Your opinion is worth no more than anyone else’s, even though you seem to think it is, of course feel free to point to where it states explicitly that people must sit in towers scouting, refeshing siege, etc for PPT rather than fighting.
Finally, if the only motivation to win lies with loot in this game (and in life) you are missing so much… I hope one day you will get it…
Peoples motivation lies with fun, something you don’t seem to get, if you have fun sitting in a tower for hours, building siege, etc then great you do that, that is not fun for everyone, and it is absolutely none of your business what other people do in WvW for fun unless they are breaking actual rules by hacking, siege trolling, etc, playing for fights breaks zero rules despite your delusions over the matter.
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You appear to be having difficulty with the difference between subjective opinion and objective fact. You didn’t offer a reason for anything. You simply offered a personal complaint.
You seem to have posted empty rhetoric, if my post and what was very obviously implied from the fact I gave (if you think the fact was opinion, then that is down to your ignorance of that fact) were too difficult for you to understand the first time, I suggest you re-read it.
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Fundamentally broken? I do not think that term means what you think it means. There is literally a static value per property in WvW, that tally in preset increments of time. Very simply, very specific, and extremely functional.
You offered no reasonable explanation in the least, that supports your irrational claims in this case. And meaningless? It is quite factually, very meaningful. I determines how you stand in the rankings.
You do understand that making irrational claims, simply because you do not like something on a personal level, does not change it’s definition or make the statements less unreasonable right?
I’ve already stated why as a points scoring competition it is fundamentally broken, see below:
WvW in terms of “winning” as in the score & PPT is a complete and utter joke, and is utterly worthless, for the vast majority of matchups over the course of this game “winning” has consisted of the difference in the number of players the servers have online between about 1am and 3pm the next day, and mindlessly PvDooring against minimal or zero resistance at those times.
Perhaps read things next time rather than throw insults…
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Why would a public zerg commander want rotating stability before? That makes no sense. At all. Stab was either up or it wasn’t. You’re welcome to your opinion, but it is wrong lol. A change to removing stacking duration would have required coordination, no matter how easy. Coordination > Mindless button mashing…any day, every day.
The same reasons that a WvW / GvG guild rotates stability, for example commanders getting focused by necros using corrupt boon, no good having 15 secs of stability stacked, if it gets corrupted, hence you rotate.
As “convincing” an argument that “you are wrong” is, all you’ve done is avoid answering my point, which speaks volumes, the duration would be the same when you rotated stab, so nothing changes, the stability uptime would still be the same, so hard CC would still be virtually useless and stability still OP.
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You have worked hard to miss the point so completely. The point was, are you part of the problem or part of the solution. If you refuse to play for PPT in a game designed to be won with PPT you only make it worse and therefore are part of the problem.
The point isn’t so much about winning than it is about showing respect to those that play the game as it’s intended to be. I personally don’t care a bit about the end result, and fights are what is more interesting, but I play to win even if it is mathematically impossible to win. It is a question of attitude.
I wasn’t responding to your point, I was responding to the irony of your choice of words, bothering with PPT when it is fundamentally broken and utterly meaningless, is to use your word ‘ridiculous’.
As for the problem, there is no problem, if you want to play meaningless PPT that is your choice, just like if others want to play for fights that is theirs, the only people not showing respect are those like yourself who think everyone should focus on the PPT aspect and play your way.
if they wanted to balance the stability they had only to remove the stack duration
That makes zero difference to balance, if you rotate stability you would still have the same uptime.
Except it rewards coordination and penalizes mindless button mashing. I fail to see how that has no impact on balance. If the problem was melee trains being unstoppable because button mashing automatically stacked the duration then removing duration stacking fixes that problem. The game SHOULD reward coordination. The current changes to stability do the opposite, in fact. The changes reward mindless CCing…the very thing Stability is there to control.
It makes no difference because if the duration is the same when you rotate it (which isn’t hard, I’ve been in public zergs where the commander shouts “stab 1”, “stab 2”, it is hardly SC2 is it) then hard CC is still laughably ineffective, which is why stability was OP.
The changes may have gone too far the other way, but that does not alter that stability was way too powerful in WvW large groups before.
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if they wanted to balance the stability they had only to remove the stack duration
That makes zero difference to balance, if you rotate stability you would still have the same uptime.
The story is so typically cliché at the start and the quests really don’t come to life with the instancing and didn’t grasp me with a good sense of story.
Which makes it no different from any other video game, including this one where the plot, dialogue, etc, are beyond poor, packed full of clichés and at the level that is of a bad children’s book.
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To illustrate the ridiculousness behind the line of thinking…
The irony is strong…
WvW in terms of “winning” as in the score & PPT is a complete and utter joke, and is utterly worthless, for the vast majority of matchups over the course of this game “winning” has consisted of the difference in the number of players the servers have online between about 1am and 3pm the next day, and mindlessly PvDooring against minimal or zero resistance at those times.
The only ridiculous line of thinking is that of deluding yourself that PPT and “winning” at PPT is anything but a totally valueless exercise.
I dont see why people should be forced, almost 3 years after release, to adapt to a playstyle they do not enjoy. I can totally understand anyone who quits playing WvW because of this.
But you were fine with 4 classes making up the vast majority of compositions in every large group from 20 players up, you were fine with the “balance” that there were usually more guardians in everything from a 20 man GvG group to a zone blob, than there were engies, rangers, thieves & mesmers put together.
How about the times in team/map chat when someone asks what is a good build for ranger or engy, and all they get back are replies like “reroll”,“alt-f4”, etc, did you simply laugh at the engy / ranger or did you actually make posts on this forum decrying the balance in WvW and that these classes needed help?
The lack of objectivity and level of hypocrisy in these threads is hilarious.
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If cc before the patch was that bad and was everytime countered by stability. Why on earth was everbody using cc?
Wouldn’t it better to take different skills then?
Or is the truth that cc was always good but you have to use it at the right momentan and couldn’t spam it like today?
Hard CC was useless, for example take two blobs at inner hills, say the attacking blob was a heavy melee train and the defending blob was more ranged, the heavy melee train has to go through the chokes on the bridge / lords room entrance.
In theory the heavy melee train should be at a big disadvantage from having to push two chokes where the ranged heavy blob can lay down all that damage, in reality it was the opposite, because of a combination of the 5 man AOE cap, that stability was very unlikely to get stripped (in AOE terms), that even if by some miracle the stab was stripped on the odd melee, it could be instantly reapplied by a group rotating stability (or warriors switching out a shout for an extra stability skill) and of course that the stability rendered hard CC as useless.
The result of which is the melee train was basically unstoppable (and before you say but the damage – AOE 5 man cap, dodge rolls, invurn skills), and obviously once the melee train gets in to the lords room it is all over.
Now this change to stability might have gone a bit too much the other way, but that doesn’t change stability was way overpowered and often there was no “right time” to use hard CC, because to take my earlier example the time when you actually needed to CC when a huge melee train is pushing, for those seconds they have perma-stability, it is no good using it when they have pushed to outside the Lord room, are without stab and are simply waiting for their SYG / virtue to come off cooldown for the push into the lord’s room.
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One aspect of the discussion is that WvW raid guilds are not able to zergbust as before. I assume that these guilds are highly organised with TS, set group composition and synergising builds.
Last time I zerged it up, the public zone blob had 78 people on TS, it was commanded by a guy who had played GvG, had thousands of hours expereince, about 40 of those in the zerg were in GvG/WvW guilds, another 20 had previously been in WvW guilds or were simply players who had a lot of expereince, the vast majority of players were running “correct” builds and most were in decent group composition.
The result of which is no guild could zergbust the blob, including by far the best guild EU, the blob often beat two guilds at once, and it took 3 guilds “handholding” to beat the blob, this was before the stability change.
Long, long ago when people had not caught on how to play, then guilds like RG did zergbust, if people are “zergbusting” today then they are either fighting terrible servers or people are simply deluding themselves that it is down to “leet” skills when they meet the odd terible zerg.
WvW does not have a high skill cap, it also has a very low skill floor and simply by people playing the “correct” builds, being in “correct” groups, being on TS, having a decent commander/driver and not having many uplevels, makes far, far more difference than “skill”.
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Imo, Warrs got hit the hardest by the stab change. I run balanced stance, dolyak signet, and last stand which got me 24 seconds of stab before. Now, 5 seconds into a push I’m getting knocked around like a ping pong ball.
Which is a prime example of why stability was broken OP, you have all that, and then lets say you have two guards in your party with stand your ground every 24 secs, plus the stab on courage trait, and you have near permanent stability because boon stripping gets vastly outscaled in the transition from PvP to WvW by boon generation (and it isn’t in that good a place even in PvP) so is useless other than focusing the commander with corrupt boon.
Which resulted in what should be some of the stongest skills in a PvP format – hard CC on relatively long 40-50 sec cooldowns being utterly useless most of the time.
I’m undecided as to whether the change is too much, but some sort of a change was needed, the amount of stability uptime just made WvW even more faceroll.
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The complaint here from most people is that they can no longer bust zergs.
The ‘complaint’ in regard to busting zergs comes from NA players where public zergs are well terrible, ‘zerg busting’ has not really been a thing on EU for a long time at least in regard to decent experienced servers.
In EU much of the time the public zergs at least on certain servers, are actually open raids hosted by a guild or are effectively open raids because you have more players from GvG/WvW guilds (or simply are very experienced) than the guild you are facing, so outside of the very rare occasion the days of guilds like RG wiping a 60 man zerg have long gone.
No GvG is not unbalanced, it works actually quite well for a game designed around 5v5. Right now in the meta, every class but engi is utilized
That doesn’t make it balanced, having more guards for example than all the rangers, engies, thieves, and mesmers put together out of 20 players is so far from balanced it is laughable.
And incidentally that some guilds use a ranger lately does not alter the reality that for most of this game it was non-existent in GvG.
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Just opening for 20vs20 in custom arenas would also go a long way.
Wouldn’t work because even at 10vs10 arenas lag.
Engies are dev’s favorite. There won’t be any nerfs.
You must be new or have a selective memory, for the first 12-14 months engy was the most nerfed class in the game.
Is Guardian the only class that gets heavily nerfed in sPvP?
Guardian is one of the least nerfed classes in sPvP (or anywhere else), it was also in every single team for nearly two years, is one of the best classes in PvE (go ask necros how PvE is) and has been mandatory in WvW for the entire game.
So your hard luck story is laughable, as is the “logic” of your thread.
Maybe engi will get some help with the new specialisation, else using the new hammer on a class with crappy condi removal, crappy stability, normally only one stun break is going to be pretty futile, unless of course the hammer is more ranged than melee.
Other than that the chance of getting balance for WvW is non-existent, you’ve had 2.5 years of engi being sub-par and unwanted for large groups in WvW, I doubt Anet are suddenly going to start giving a flying **** now.
Last year and before that I’d say 99% of players respected gvgs and stayed on the side lines.
Respect is earned not simply given, and it is a two way thing, when players from GvG guilds add to 1v1’s / small group fights, gank players leaving keeps/spawn 5v1, add when two reasonably balanced public zergs are having an open field fight, troll in mapchat, etc, it is no surprise that some players don’t give a toss about the “respect” GvG guilds think they are due.
The matchup of the #1 ranked gvg guild in NA against the #1 EU guild got more than 1000 viewers on a channel which typically got maybe 20.
GW2 is not popular to watch fullstop, it is not a good game to watch, be it tPvP or “GvG”, the over-the-top particle effects even in a team fight in tPvP are an issue, adding 30 players and a melee ball, does nothing but make that problem worse.
A kid streaming Minecraft, D3 ,etc from his bedroom gets more than every GW2 stream combined, a thousand viewers is nothing, and yes it was for a player run thing not an official Anet tournament, guess what, long ago that is what the tPvP guys did, and their first player run tournies got 5k viewers.
You also have other problems with GvG that make it pretty dull, for example once a team gets on top it is rare they don’t then go on to win, it just snowballs too easily, sometimes to the point ‘GG’ is called and the round is over virtually as soon as it starts.
If GvGs were instanced similar to an spvp or tpvp matchup, many more people would be interested.
If Anet were to take “GvG” seriously, they would have to balance for it, because in case you’ve missed it the balance for “GvG” is a total joke, you have two classes that have been pretty much non-existent and two more that are woefully under-represented and they are never going to devote resources to a competitve format that certain classes basically cannot play, but the chances of that happening are zero as you can’t balance for small 2v2 – 3v3 encounters you get in tPvP and for 20 vs 20 where game mechanics basically break.
Take a 5v5. Now increase that 3-4x fold. 15v15 and 20v20 combat is more difficult regarding positioning and teamwork.
LoL more difficult, let’s take ‘positioning’ as you mention that, positioning is a joke in “GvG”, melee don’t have to make any real decisions on positioning at all, the driver does it for them, it is brainless, which is why you have the QQ over driver sniping, you kill the brain and well…
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Very inexperienced player complaining about thieves. Every build thief has has been nerfed significantly. Only PD condi remains OP.
Seems to me the inexperienced players are those who complain about nerfs without context and either don’t realise the real issue with thieves or want or pretend it does not exist.
Thief has had lots of nerfs (though it is not alone in that regard, even though some players seem to think it is) and currently is arguably as weak as it has ever been, yet… go watch the recent WTS finals, yet again both teams had a thief, and there is your problem and why the nerf bat appears regularly – the basic design of thief is absolutely broken OP to the point virtually every decent team for the entirety of the game has had a thief, they are a must have pick and always have been.
This is a class that even after all the nerfs, is still basically so broken OP it keeps all other zerker builds (other than the freak medi guard) either completely out of the picture (e.g – static discharge engi) or simply overshadows them and renders them sub-par (e.g – shatter mes, longbow ranger, etc), all whilst being basically ‘untouchable’ in its role as roamer and this has been the case for the entire game.
Unfortunately Anet’s “answer” seems to be keep nerfing thief, rather than addressing the fundamental issues with the class design / mechanics that make it unbalanceable.
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You show me an instance where they completely overhauled a class mechanic and I’ll agree with you. Til then, you’re extrapolating that since the game has had small changes, it’s perfectly logical for them to make a major change to a classes basic design.
Bolded the important part, I’m guessing you missed it the first time.
I’m guessing you missed it the first time, your bolded part has as much relevance to the logic of the argument I put as asking me to name ten Steven Spielberg films, which is none, so I’ll post it again:
I’m not extrapolating anything, your argument has no basis, that they “designed, playtested and balanced” everything pre-launch is meaningless, it does not equate to what they designed as being balanced or well designed, and that applies to class mechanics just as much skills, traits, combat mechanics etc. In fact I’d say a lot of the issues with this game are down to class mechanics that don’t work well or are too strong.
So yes adding a CD to thief skills on this trait could be too much, on other hand it might not be, just because they didn’t have it launch is not a logical argument not to change things, unless you are suffering from the delusion that they achieved perfection at launch.
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You can’t add a CD to a skill that was designed, playtested and balanced with No CD in mind
Sure you can, they “designed, playtested and balanced” every skill, every trait, every mechanic before launch, guess what they got it wrong, horribly wrong in many cases, which is why numerous skills, numerous traits and even mechanics have been scrapped, redesigned and rebalanced, that they “designed, playtested and balanced” pre-launch is meaningless, by your “logic” they would change nothing.
You’re talking specific skills, effects, their durations, and the like – minor changes as far as the games mechanics go. I’m talking the design philosophy behind an entire class – major changes as far as the games mechanics go.
You show me an instance where they completely overhauled a class mechanic and I’ll agree with you. Til then, you’re extrapolating that since the game has had small changes, it’s perfectly logical for them to make a major change to a classes basic design.
It’s also possible you underestimate how major adding a CD to skills designed to have no CD is. That is not a minor change – you’re not tweaking damage, condition duration/application, or evade frames. You’re changing the entire dynamic of how the class works, it is a major change.
I’m not extrapolating anything, your argument has no basis, that they “designed, playtested and balanced” everything pre-launch is meaningless, it does not equate to what they designed as being balanced or well designed, and that applies to class mechanics just as much skills, traits, combat mechanics etc.
Frankly I’d say part of the balance issues with this game are down to class mechanics that don’t work well or are too strong.
So yes adding a CD to thief skills on this trait could be too much, on other hand it might not be, just because they didn’t have it launch is not a logical argument not to change things, unless you are suffering from the delusion that they achieved perfection at launch.
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You can’t add a CD to a skill that was designed, playtested and balanced with No CD in mind
Sure you can, they “designed, playtested and balanced” every skill, every trait, every mechanic before launch, guess what they got it wrong, horribly wrong in many cases, which is why numerous skills, numerous traits and even mechanics have been scrapped, redesigned and rebalanced, that they “designed, playtested and balanced” pre-launch is meaningless, by your “logic” they would change nothing.
However, and going back on not being a top player, this is something that you should not take into consideration ever. I hate people saying “Play something else” because with this attitude we would’ve had a tripple Warrior, Guard and Thief meta or something stupid like that because people do not have the guts or the understanding to man up and become a team player.
When you are playing a Mesmer, your team needs to understand this. It is something I try to do whenever I am playing my Ele or Warrior and one of my partners is playing Mesmer. Peel right for the said Mesmer, and it will become the worst thing for the enemy team.
I don’t know your level of play, but people saying “Play something else” is just flat-out dumb. Yes, of course Mesmer, Necromancer and Ranger is more punishing than other classes in the game, but are we all gonna jump the Cele bandwagon and pretend it is the best thing since sliced bread, or are we gonna improve at what we are good at, and prove that the classes are playable?
You know this is a not thing that has suddenly become an issue with the “Cele bandwagon” right? In the months before the cele / might rune patch when ele was nearly non-existent in teams, the next least represented class was mesmer.
Or go back to Pax long ago, you had TP keep losing scrims to CC before the EU qualifiers, and eventually Xeph switched to thief 2 or 3 weeks before the qualifiers, and TP started winning (and then won the qualifiers), with a guy who was clearly less able on his thief he had played 3 weeks than his mes he played over a year, but was more effective.
Same thing goes for this notion that it is a problem with team-mates not peeling for the mes, I remember TP responding to being asked why they switched on one of their streams, and part of it was they simply could not protect the mesmer anymore, there is only so much even good players can do to support / protect a team mate.
The game is poorly balanced it is as simple as that, the differences in risk, when the reward is the same (and often not even that) are ridiculous, in every comparable game I’ve played if a class was high skill cap or had team “requirements” if it produced the results then good players/teams/guilds would use it, this game is no different, people don’t use mes for the simple reason it is not up to it.
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As you can see the major issue is in tier two… If you look at the groupings I provided you can see how tight and nice the match ups are
Wrong, the match ups aren’t tight and nor is it the major issue, the self absorbed obsession with NA tier 2 / 3 is well…
The “major issue” is WvWvW as a system is unbalance-able and for the most part produces dull, lopsided matchups that are over before they start.
Go to mos look at the scores for all matches NA + EU, it is wednesday morning (at least where I am) and most matches are blowouts, most were blowouts by monday morning.
Of the 9 EU tiers 5 matches have the first placed server approximately 50-70k in front of the second place server, of the 8 NA tiers 5 matchups with the first placed server 60k+ in front of the second, and to put it in perspective a 60k lead is about equal to one server ticking 600 for 25 hours straight.
And that is me being kind, in that I am only comparing to the second place server, it only gets worse if you compare to the third place.
So can we stop this delusion that the only thing wrong is 4 servers in tier 2 NA and the blowout it produces every week in tier 3 NA, the entire system needs changing it is broken.
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Bloodlust on the other hand was not even remotely a failure. I can only guess that you are not aware of its value. In my circles, it is well received and everyone I have spoken to enjoys it. Your circles may have a different opinion, but I see generally positive discussion on it in the forums and almost no complaints.
Bloodlust was a total failure, once the novelty wore off that was pretty much it, the only time it picks up is if it is a season and there is some scrub server in the matchup who can’t fight so are desperate to prevent getting stomped for points.
The rest of the time it is a barren wasteland 99% of the time, because most servers are simply happy enough having minor bloodlust and tends to be the default state of things, it is so empty most of the time it is not even a good place to roam.
Beyond that it is a failure in that when servers do actually bother like seasons it is just another mechanism that increases the advantage of the server with the highest pop / highest coverage, WvW is already a joke in terms of “winning” because of this issue, adding a mechanic that just makes that worse is well…
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To be honest I do not understand why if mesmer is getting off-hand shield that it is not getting a main hand weapon also (pistol for example), rangers are getting a staff – 5 skills, meanwhile mesmers get shafted with only get 2 new weapon skills.
there’s really no point to argue, these spots give classes like thief and mesmer an advantage over other classes.
There are spots that give classes with movement skills like rocket boots, jump shot, etc an advantage over other classes.
There are spots that give ranger/engy an advantage over other classes because they have 1500 range (“1500” in the case of ranger).
I know lets make all classes exactly the same then no one will have any advantage over anyone else…
But anyway back to the actual topic, all I have to say is, fortunately mesmer has always been a default pick in teams due to being hugely OP, even to the point of doubling up like d/d ele, hambow warriors in the past, etc, so they can afford to have their awesome survivability nerfed to bring them down to earth, plus of course reducing the skill cap in a game is always a good thing. /sarcasm
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Turret Engis will most likely not have a place, such has other cheese builds in conquest
I guess you don’t play WvW much if you are under the delusion cheese builds are only found in conquest, prepare to be disappointed if you think stronghold is going to be a cheese free zone.
Necro is a great class. They just need to be played a certain way, and if the enemy doesn’t allow that, then like every profession, it can get nullified.
Mesmer and Necro just come with a long list of requirements, when met, they’re a force to be reckoned with – the most lethal of killers. Consistency is all that’s lacking, buffing would be extremely complicated.
Your opinion doesn’t match the reality, if these classes were actually “great” they would not of been so poorly represented in teams. In every comparable game I’ve played if something is “great” then good teams / guilds will use it regardless of whether it has requirements or has a high skill cap, so either the entirety of the “pro” GW2 PvP playerbase are basically scrubs or you are wrong.
But then really you need to look no further than things like Xeph switching to a thief (that he was clearly less competent on than his mesmer) 2 weeks before a tournament and being more effective than he was on a class he had played for over a year, balance in this game is a joke.
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Ele and engineer on every single team, no mesmers, the only warrior played was a shoutbow (imagine that) …
Whilst I agree that it is lame, this sort of thing is nothing new, you had bunker guard on every single team for 2 years, you had a thief on virtually every team for 2 years, at various times for months on end you had other builds on every team (or very close to it) – spirit ranger, hambow warrior (it was not uncommon to see two on a team), etc.
Build diversity isn’t perfect but certainly not the problem in this case.
I’d say in the larger context it is actually one of the biggest issues with build diversity in this game, the thief issue is not just a mesmer problem, nearly every glassy build on any class is subpar to thief with very rare exceptions like medi guard which has other issues.
In the vast majority of cases a glass thief simply has better engage, better disengage, overall better survivability, better mobility and usually harder to avoid burst than glass builds on other classes.
The result of which is classes either go to more defensive sustainable options – e.g engy you never see a static discharge zerker for the aforementioned reasons, so they have gone either condi or cele.
Or you have examples like mes or ele (when ele does not have anything else viable like the months pre-celestial patch) and they simply go glass and suck it up as being thief food, and simply end up as a rare sight in teams.
It is also a problem for thieves, as Anet’s “answer” seems to be quite a lot of nerfing, which just makes thieves weaker and weaker against builds they already struggle with, whilst doing very little to lessen the way they counter other classes going glass.
Because when PvPing be it actual PvP or WvW, asura animations are harder to read, hence players are banned from playing asura in things like WTS, ESL, etc (it was also bad from a spectating point of view). This has been mitigated somewhat since they introduced the option for standard models, but that is only for ranked PvP queue.
Saying that, mesmer is something of an exception at times, because fighting say a huge norn mesmer in a confined area can absolutely painful as your view becomes obscured by these huge norn mesmer clones filling the screen .
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That is simply not true, for example I used to play certain engy builds that were lets say a bit ‘borderline’, simply because I enjoyed them, however in their efforts to nerf condi engy they did things like move incendiary powder to master, which weakened my ‘borderline’ build to the point it was no longer even ‘borderline’.
Incendiary Powder is ridiculously overpowered. It’s way too good at any trait level. If your build wasn’t good without it, you should probably refine your build more.
Which is of no relevance to that point I was making and beyond that makes no sense, it was precisely because how much many engy builds rely on incendiary powder that borderline builds got nerfed out of even being borderline, because there was no option but to go 20 into the the first line to get incendiary powder.
Nerfs are generally specifically targeted, you’re a bit mistaken. If longbow rangers get nerfed, that will affect just them, same with turret engis.
That is simply not true, for example I used to play certain engy builds that were lets say a bit ‘borderline’, simply because I enjoyed them, however in their efforts to nerf condi engy they did things like move incendiary powder to master, which weakened my ‘borderline’ build to the point it was no longer even ‘borderline’.
You can’t expect every little build combination that you like to put together to be saved even when there is an overpowered build out there. Anet decides to sacrifice your snowflake build so the thousands of other people using the condi meta build are not as dominant.
Your entire discussion point is that there should be lots and lots of build variety. While that would be nice— people create the current Meta because it works and it works well. If it starts to work too well, it should definitely be knocked down a notch, even at the price of you not having your unique build that you like.
Firstly it isn’t my “discussion point”, I’m not the OP, secondly I don’t expect them to take any notice of non-meta builds, I was simply pointing out the person I quoted was incorrect when he claimed nerfs just effect those builds they are targeted at.
Nerfs are generally specifically targeted, you’re a bit mistaken. If longbow rangers get nerfed, that will affect just them, same with turret engis.
That is simply not true, for example I used to play certain engy builds that were lets say a bit ‘borderline’, simply because I enjoyed them, however in their efforts to nerf condi engy they did things like move incendiary powder to master, which weakened my ‘borderline’ build to the point it was no longer even ‘borderline’.
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Newsflash – they don’t balance for WvW, and if you want a no risk class then you wouldn’t pick ranger, you’d pick thief or certain warrior builds, who can disengage for the most part when they want.
But players do much more than just sPvP…
And? Warrior is wanted in PvE for the combo of medium DPS + banners and it has been part of the meta for zergs/GvG for the entirety of the game.
Warrior is not weak or unwanted in any part of the game, perhaps you would prefer the necro position in PvE where for the entire game pretty much they have been bottom of the pile and unwanted, or how about engy/ranger who are non-existent when it comes to WvW guilds for zerging or GvG, or even thief /mes who are woefully underrepresented compared to the GWEN classses, and in the case of mesmer also weak in PvP.
Really the lack of objectivity and lack of awareness in this thread by some is astounding.
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But I see all this hate for the Warriors and apparent nerfs they received. I wanna play a zerker build in PvE (dungeons and fractals) and play whatever’s viable in PvP.
I’d ignore the “hate”, it is made by people that have absolutely no clue:
- Warrior has received far less nerfs than thief, mesmer, engi, etc.
- It is wanted in PvE because it does medium DPS with great group support.
- In WvW it is part of the GWEN meta, along with guards, shoutheal warrior is pretty much the only other class that is commonly asked for in groups.
- In PvP, ever since the healing signet/cleansing ire, etc changes, it has been at least decently represented in teams, at times overrepresented (pre-nerf hambow, virtually every team had at least one warrior, quite often 2 warriors).
Now compare that to some other classes, necro has been ‘unwanted’ in PvE for virtually the entire game. In WvW for zergs/GvG, etc engy and ranger have been virtually non-existent the entire game, thief and mes, have been poorly represented when compared to the abundance of GWEN classes.
The people claiming warrior is in a terrible position are detached from reality, ignore them, if you find warrior fun, then play it, it is not in a bad position.
Mesmer have been nerfed too much in these years, compared to the other professions that received buffs constantly.
Some mesmer nerfs were unwarranted, however the idea that other professions have recieved constant buffs is total nonsense, thief has had more nerfs than mesmer, engi for the first 12-15 months was the most nerfed class in the game, etc.
This game isn’t Esports because the PvP system is a simple byproduct of their beautiful PvE world.
Not really, it is more the other way round, PvE in this game is broken, because the combat/classes were designed and balanced around PvP and their “e-sport” dream, so in PvE mechanics like condition damage are useless, stacking in a spot is often the strongest tactic which totally goes against a game that is supposed to be movement heavy, generally a huge imbance between melee &range and so on.
This game isn’t e-sports for many reasons, it is painful to watch with all the particle effects, AI, etc, the playerbase is never going to be there because as a casual PvP format is it the least enjoyable I have ever played, in fact not just ‘casual’, as anything short of queuing with a pre-made it is simply the least fun, they only balance every 6+ months which is made worse by how cheesy the game is, and so on.
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But in my opinion your views on this matter are delusional. GW2’s balance is better than most MMO’s, especially now, so I don’t know where this “they don’t know how to balance” comes from.
Well I guess it comes from the balance…
As we are in the WvW forum take a look at the class balance of WvW over the last couple of years, it is appalling, by far the worst for larger scale PvP in any MMO I’ve played.
For two years large groups/zergs have consisted of 80%-100% of 4 classes, there are times when you will have not seen a single engy/ranger/thief and just the odd veilbot (and sometimes not even one of those), I have never played another MMO where 50% of the classes are either barely represented (thief / mesmer) or completely absent (engy/ranger) in large scale PvP.
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Good, stability is OP in zergs, having perma stability (or near to it) is a joke, it negates what should be one of the most powerful things in a PvP format – hard CC.
As for boon stripping, yeah right, the only boon stripping that works against competent groups (and when I say competent I mean rolling your face across the keyboard rotating stability/boons and not standing in wells you know too long – cos that is leet skillz), is focusing individuals like the ‘driver’ with corrupt boon.
Stripping boons in the group context is a joke, stability is last in the order for well of corruption if I remember correctly, most of the time there are 4+ boons over that stability, most of the boon stripping skills in this game are not even used in zergs because they are not suitable or on classes that don’t exist in large groups (thief sword 3, engy mines, etc), meanwhile the amount of boon generation in a melee ball scales to silly levels with guards everywhere.
As for the crying of guards, really? Go look at the class balance of WvW/GvG over the last 2 years, 4 classes have made up the vast majority of zergs/guilds, with 2 classes barely existing and two more not existing at all, where were your posts complaining about the plight of ranger or engy, and now you want sympathy, because the class that has been the most common in WvW for 2 years is getting a well deserved hit, lol.
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Because if you think the engineer isn’t very front line capable now, then you must not know much about the profession at all.
Engy is sub-par as a frontliner, it lacks stability (and toss elixir B is the worst stability skill in the game), it offers less support than an AH guard or shout warrior, damage is either too slow like bombs or too susceptible to retal against competent guilds/groups.
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Zerg battles in WvW do require skill …
But not much…
Unless you think for example not having to decide your positioning (in any meaningful sense) as a melee and having your “driver” decide it for you takes skill.
Or that running in the melee ball where you have stability up most of the time covered by numerous boons that renders what should be one of the strongest aspects of PvP play – hard CC, a total joke most of the time.
and so on…