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The reason why it has been 9 months since major revisions were given to warriors was because at the time of beta, ArenaNet felt that warriors were in a good place in balance. All of the alpha testers unanimously agreed that warriors had the most diverse build choices, strong map presence, and overall good balance. So, ANet allocated all of their resources to working on the other classes.
Now that all of the classes (except warriors) have been fine-tuned with the appropriate buffs and nerfs over the months, Anet can finally revisit warriors. Remember, warriors were their first class that they designed, so they felt that warriors set the standard for balance, believe it or not. And warriors were good at the time – until players started figuring out how to play eles, and thieves, etc, and realized the potential of those classes far exceeded what warriors could possibly ever do.
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Going by ArenaNet’s trends, it is obvious that the change to Brawn from 30% down to 3% was a temporary solution to the warrior’s high damage during beta. They just haven’t gotten around to finding a more permanent solution.
That’s just how Anet deals with things. First implement the fundamentals, then later smooth out the edges. Just like the matchmaking system, leaderboards, and tournament system – the main idea is implemented first, and then over time it gets streamlined.
If they successfully bailed, then no, you did not win the fight. You did not kill them.
End of discussion.
The solution is simple: leaver = 2 hour penalty.
Players inflicted with leaver penalty can still enjoy PvE, WvW, and hot join PvP. They just cannot queue for tournaments. If ArenaNet is serious about advancing GW2 as an e-sport, it is important that matchmaking rating is kept as accurate as possible. Leavers contaminate the MMR of all 5 players on the team, and the winning team gets a boost in MMR that both distorts the accuracy of their skill-to-rating ratio, and is an unsatisfying win, too.
tl;dr One leaver affects the gaming experience of 10 players negatively. Accurate MMR is important for development of e-sports, and one leaver distorts the MMR of 10 players.
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As soon as other classes are brought to the level of warriors and are slightly more equal, the rivers of QQ pour out. So ironic.
Warrior has potentially awesome mobility, you just have to invest into it, while other classes get it basically for free
Key words here. In order to have decent (not even amazing; just “meh” decent) defense against movement impairment, you have to make so many sacrifices and tear apart your build to the point where your warrior becomes useless. Useless as a 1v1 duelist (far point assaulter, close point defender), useless in team fights.
I’m optimistic about the upcoming patch though. Everything that I have been advocating for is coming true: a warrior that is more Irelia-like in nature. CC duration reduction, some sustain healing, some damage without having to build squishy. Fingers are crossed.
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The devs came prepared with detailed information. The other speakers did not have to pry and pick open the devs’ brains in vain.
Speakers like Caed asked very precise and thought-provoking questions, and was not shy on interrupting the devs to get the questions across. This is good. A good journalist is not passive or meek. Aggressiveness is the key, and I got that impression from the speakers in this SotG (mainly from Caed…the other speakers swallowed their own microphones and stopped talking midway or something).
Need more guest speakers like Caed on SotG.
Thanks for the SotG!
(Also Jsu is a beast ele. He uses a seemingly standard ele build but with his own spin on it, focusing on a lot of condition removal.)
I play warrior but unfortunately, I tend to be the lone wolf. Nobody, almost literally, plays warrior on my teams or against my teams.
As for builds, I’m still using an experimental one, but it’s one that no one has ever used before in competitive play (revolves around might stacking, and an off-hand sword…). It’s very weird, that’s probably why. But it’s fun! And somehow it works.
D/D Ele focusing on CC & Dodging.
Example here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSyiTT41LLU&hd=1 =)
Clearly a faceroll, heh. More people should see this video.
I don’t think this is a good example of a definitive counter to HGH engineers. The video was more like a series of bad decision making on that particular engineer’s part. First, he chose to engage that fight without his elite. Second, after receiving that Fire Grab crit, the engi could have stealthed and escaped out of there to reset the fight; nope, he chooses to turn around, run up the stairs, and continue fighting an uphill battle after failing to evade damage.
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FIFO. First in, first out.
If you look at your row of conditions, the right-most condition is the oldest, so that one gets cleansed first.
so bring a necro. At least HgH engies have a hard counter other then zerging them with 3+ people
I can see you don’t have very much experience in tournament pvp.
Necros do not counter HGH engineers.
How healthy do you consider it would be, to wait in line 45 minutes for a pvp mach?.
You don’t know what the result will be. Perhaps a more accurate solo queue rating would increase players’ skill faster, since they are playing with similar-skilled players on equal footing. Competition can grow from this. Teams may be more likely to form. This spills into 5-man queue.
Remember, population as a whole in GW2 is pretty enormous; there are over 1 million active accounts. PvP population is also bigger than people think; it’s just filled with casuals. The goal, then, is to simply forge competitive players out of casual ones.
It’s not a question of if Anet will punish leavers, it’s when.
Due to the lack of proper support, more game modes and the kitten advantage of kiting vs melee, SPVP is almost DEAD you simply can not separate the Qs if you expect to play more than 1 game per afternoon.
Keeping a bad mechanic in the game because of population is not a good design. PvP devs have one responsibility: PvP. They only need to concern themselves with facilitating a healthy environment for PvP competition (through balance, infrastructure, etc). Population is another issue for a different department of Anet to handle.
The rating drop should be enough if they do it too often since they always get losses.
Except the rating of the other 4 teammates drops the same. They move down the ladder together because of that one leaver. Nothing is isolating the leaver from legit players who want to compete. It, literally, drags everybody down.
And the opposing team who wins gets no satisfaction from winning a 5v4. That one leaver affects 10 players in a bad way.
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The beauty of GW2 is that it is actually 3 games in one. So, if a player happens to be a dou’che to his team and leaves mid-match, and they get tourney-banned for 2 hours, they can still enjoy hot join PvP, WvW, and PvE. They’ll just be barred from the most competitive aspect of the game temporarily.
Am I not merciful?
The funny thing is that D/D Elementalists, as melee-heavy as they are, also double up as the best kiters in the game, arguably.
That’s probably one of the biggest strengths of a D/D Elementalist compared to a melee Warrior. Not only do they have the spike healing, good cleave, and AoE galore, they also have the freedom to control a fight. They can successfully make space whenever they want. They can successfully move on top of their target whenever they want. They can kite very well, and they are also unkite-able. What a paradox.
There’s a reason why games like League of Legends have tiered brackets for solo queue, on top of having a separated team queue mode. Along with producing a more accurate rating measurement, it ensures that similar-skilled players will be paired with similar-skilled players.
I wonder how many years it will take for game companies to embrace a rating system like LoL’s and accept it as the standard.
Anet, I give you the instructions to creating the best rating system ever. Read: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Elo_rating_system
This is why solo queue must be separated from 5-man team queue. Of course pugs will “naturally” be separated from premades on average due to rating, but whenever a particular pug player performs exceptionally well and carries for multiple games, he will get knocked back down by a premade, so his potential MMR is capped. It’s a glass ceiling.
I don’t really understand if there is anything to punish leavers at the moment (I’ve never left a game as of yet) so if anything like this is already in place forgive my ignorance.
Wouldn’t the simplest solution be to simply count a leave as a loss, or keep them in the match regardless of logging out/quitting/etc and tacking whatever happens to his team on him?
A leave counts as a loss, but it is a loss shared by all of your teammates, too. So, one leaver affects the MMR of all 5 people on the team.
Bad ISP = 2 hour time out!!
Wow how has this not been implemented!?!?!?!
Bad ISP = Fix your sh’it, or don’t do tourneys. kthx bye.
Anet pls kthxbye.
I still say that Warriors, from a pure design standpoint, don’t need a lot. It just seems like ArenaNet underestimated how strong survivability from boons and heals would be and overestimated survivability from raw health and toughness. Warriors would be much more playable if the Guardians and Elementalists couldn’t tank direct damage so kitten well.
There was a reason why warriors had the amount of damage they did during open beta. They were intended to be designed that way, to be the answer to the high survivability of other classes.
Back then, no one knew how to play eles, guardians, and whatever. So, of course they’d get crushed. Fast forward 8 months later, I wonder how things would be if warriors were given back their original power from open beta 1 and 2.
2014
Jonathan Sharp: “We feel like warriors don’t quite have that sturdy body we envisioned, so we felt that they needed some drastic changes to bring them up to par.”
Patch notes:
Increased warrior’s base toughness by +10.
Fixed the tooltips on various signets.
Any skills that reflect projectiles make HGH engineers practically kill themselves
Skills that simply absorb projectiles also help as well
Mesmer: Feedback, and traits/skills that grant distortion and cause distortion to grant reflection
Guardian: Wall of Reflection, shield 5, focus 5, Shield of the Avenger
Warrior: shield 5, sword 5, mace 2 (all of these cause reflection with the V trait under Defense)
Ranger: greatsword 4, axe 5
Thief: Smoke Screen, Dagger Storm (this one is tricky, the grenades need to physically hit your character before hitting the ground or you will suffer damage)
Elementalist: (earth) staff 3, (air) focus 4
When you use a projectile reflection, Engis will obviously stop attacking and wait for your skill to end. So what you’re saying is the counter to HGH Engis is for them to choose to stop attacking you. That’s wonderful.
What if I told you that I played a class where if I press this button, you will die, no matter what. I press it = you’re dead. And the only way you don’t die, is if I don’t press this button. What would you say to that?
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1. I have no stun breaker.
2. I have no team utility.
3. No instant abilities (all prone to interruption).
4. I have only 1 condi cleanse, on a 45 second cooldown.
5. My healing signet heals for nothing.
Five reasons why that build doesn’t work. One for each signet!
Community realized this 3 hours into launch. 8 months later, devs are still using it. Hm..
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Elementalists are not OP really, they just are more finished then the rest of the classes.
All classes need access to all the boons in some way.
“They’re not OP.. they’re just op. "
Don’t follow Moldran’s steps with the warrior. “Hi everybody, look at my very cool frenzy bull’s charge cleave warrior video~~! It’s so goot. No counters teehee!”
Patch notes:
Warrior now receives 50% increased damage while in frenzy.
Frenzy no longer increases critical damage.
Cooldown on Hundred Blades has been increased.
Discipline trait line increases burst damage by 3%, down from 30%.
Sigil of Doom effect changed: no longer increases damage of next attack.
Eviscerate damage reduced by 50%.Quickness now only increases attack speed by 50%, down from 100%
Frenzy has been increased in duration, to make killing warriors even more brain-dead easy.
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Mistake #1 of the video:
You don’t discuss the counters of the build. You don’t teach the viewers how to beat it. Consequence: overwhelming QQ from community, topics posted every day about the build, attention is brought to the devs, small nerfs, small nerfs, small nerfs, build goes down in oblivion.
It’s okay guys, Jon Peters is going to deliver. Big OP buffs to signets.
Patch notes:
passive effect of Signet of Might gives +95 Power, up from 90.
Healing Signet passive heals for 250 HP per tick, up from 200
Another 8 months later, in 2014:
Jon Peters: “We feel like warriors don’t quite have that sturdy body we envisioned. So,”
Patch notes:
Warrior’s base toughness increased by +10 than before.
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I’ve played with this build. It’s fun but the condition damage from main hand sword is actually underwhelming, despite flurry. Even if you do get the full channel off, the condi damage from just flurry is not a lot. Very easily cleansable.
The other downside that all Warriors face, and not just this build, is condi removal. With the signet, you get a full cleanse every 36 seconds. Between cooldowns you are completely vulnerable to condis.
Before the quickness nerf, the lack of condi removal for warriors was balanced out by their cleave speed; warriors could burst down opponents faster than the opponents’ conditions could kill the warrior. So, warriors lacked condi removal but they could unload their burst and do their job successfully in spite of that.
I don’t get it, do you not want devs to explore builds that are not up to par in spvp and try to figure out how to make them better?
8 months later: they’re still trying to figure out why builds like that one doesn’t work.
Boy, my faith in the devs has been restored.
When traits became categorized into tiers, that’s when build diversity plummeted.
Chicks dig signets.
Because when damage-dealers go all-in on them, they don’t die right away.
I’ve yet to meet a competently played bunker from any class that dies right away 1v1.
And when your whole team focuses them, they don’t die right away.
Only if your team is shockingly bad.
I’m obviously referring to Eles who trait deep into Water and Arcana (with remainders in Air and/or Earth traits), use Valkyrie’s amulet, and 1 or 2 Arcane utilities. Of course triple cantrip bunkers don’t, and should not, die right away. This isn’t about Bunkers specifically.
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1) Game is not balanced around 1v1, but around the conquest mode 5v5.
And conquest mode consists of 3 capture points spread across a large map. Your entire 5-man team is not going to be at every point together at all times. 1 v 1 is perhaps the most important aspect of GW2 PvP, and most informative about the state of balance between classes, too. Even during big team fights, it is the 1 v 1 interactions that accumulate into a team victory for that specific fight.
Discussion: Why people think Eles is Op?
Because when damage-dealers go all-in on them, they don’t die right away. And when your whole team focuses them, they don’t die right away. However, when they decide to fight you back, they effectively set you up to be killed. Some may argue that they’re too effective at what they do.
That’s the basic gist of everything. If every class in the game could fulfill those criteria listed above, then there wouldn’t be a balance issue.
Because when you’re knocked back into the air it would seem really silly if you were to magically stand on your feet. Im sure ANet kept this for smoother gameplay.
It’s not OP, it just takes more skill to realise when you can use your stun break effectively and I prefer it like this.
Launches already have the benefit of displacing the target and stunning them. That is what distinguishes launches from stuns – forcing the target to move to another location.
Launches do not need the extra benefit of putting stunbreakers on full cooldown with no effect. Launches don’t depend on this bug in order to be useful. If stunbreakers cleansed launches at any given point during the animation, launches will STILL be useful. That is the issue here.
Why does everyone assume we want a Team deathmatch?
15 players, no teams, one room, deathmatch. With custom arenas implemented, this would be a nice, fun option.
Because slows affect movement and heartseeker is a movement skill. Ride The Lightning is a special movement skill, you turn into mist and move forward. Just be thankful it doesn’t cure slows as well.
Why aren’t Rangers’ Hornet Sting and Monarch’s Leap affected by slows then?
Why does a Warrior’s 1200 range Rush dash get reduced to 600 range by slows, but an Elementalist’s 1200 range Ride The Lightning does not?
How come Whirlwind, Eviscerate, Bull’s Charge, Shield Bash, and Rush are all affected by slows, but Savage Leap is not?
Does anybody see a problem with this inconsistency with game mechanics? It is important for every game to be very clear with its rules. In this case, the rules are not very clear at all. Imagine playing a game of Chess, and your Queen is only allowed to move one square per turn like a king, while your opponent’s Queen can traverse across the entire board in one turn. The reasoning? Just because.
I am sorry my english sux :P
If they implant a solo/group que , soloplayers wont create or join a team , beacause there is no reward for a 5-man group que (they cant offer gems as rewards , or cool looking gear)
How many teams are playing atm ?
Can top teams (like 2 months ago) fight over and over and over the same ppl ?
Or simply go in a hiatus ?
Top teams play against the same top teams regardless if there is a split solo/premade queue or a combined queue. That is how competition works. You play against your competitors. If the pool of competition is limited, then that’s not the queue system’s fault – that is a population issue that can be resolved by the marketing/sales department of the game.
The goal of the PvP devs should be to help facilitate the growth of the competitive scene – in other words, forging competitive players from the ocean of casuals. By separating solo queue from team queue, all players will be matched with a more accurate, clean matchmaking rating. As a result, frustration is lessened, and players gradually improve because the playing ground is even. It’s all about developing a healthy learning environment for players.
When the environmental conditions are healthy, competition naturally grows on its own. Players improve in skill due to the accurate matchmaking, and teams are more likely to be formed. More teams equals more competition, and faster queue times at the higher rating tiers. PvP devs only need to concern themselves with game balance and providing the tools to foster the growth of a competitive scene (separated solo/team queue for more accurate matchmaking).
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I dont know abut that
Theres more ppl whining about class imbalances + more game modes rathern that getting beaten by premades
The purpose of separating solo queue from team queue is to have a cleaner, more accurate matchmaking rating. It is to ensure that players truly are being paired with the appropriate teammates and opponents, which facilitates better improvement and growth in skill.
Everything that the PvP devs do should be geared towards fostering the growth of a healthy, competitive PvP scene.
Not excusing it by any stretch, but if the population in PvP is too low, then having it fragmented leads to long ques which leads to people quitting, thus compounding the low population problem and quickly killing the game. Slow death gives more opportunity for profit than quick death, thus the business decision is easy.
Low population isn’t a PvP problem! It is a marketing/sales problem! PvP devs have the responsibility of providing the tools and game balance necessary to facilitate a healthy, competitive PvP community with e-sports potential. That is the extent of their responsibilities. Population issues can be resolved through the appropriate department.
It’s like designing the Chess game and saying, “Oh since not many people play Chess, let’s remove a few of the pieces like the Pawns and the Rooks so the match will go by faster.” NO.
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I feel like GW2 does not have a healthy infrastructure to foster a competitive PvP environment. There are no tools to help and encourage casual players to form teams. There is no system to track improvement and growth in skill level (visible ELO rating system must be implemented). Consequently, there is no incentive to PvP. There’s no reason to PvP. That’s the biggest issue.
In League of Legends (largest e-sports game, surpassing SC2), rating is everything. Rating is why you want to keep playing. Rating is why you want to improve and be competitive. Players strive to enter the challenger tier rank in order to be recognized by the community and possibly be recruited into an e-sports team. There is so much incentive to play. Visible rating, separated solo/duo queue with premade team queue. These are all extremely important to the health and future of PvP.
You cannot tailor the PvP infrastructure to the amount of players in the game. “Oh we can’t separate solo queue from premade queue due to lack of players.” That’s not PvP’s problem! That is a marketing/sales problem! As PvP devs, you need to provide the tools necessary to facilitate a competitive e-sports environment. Population is a marketing issue that can be taken care of in their own department.
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Rangers have always been strong duelists.
If Eles would benefit more from a Ride The Lightning that is reduced by slows but still enables utility skill usage, I say GREAT. As long as the game mechanics of Ride The Lightning are consistent with other dashes.
When I’m encountering an Ele, and I cripple them, I want to know that in order for the Ele to travel the maximum 1200 range with Ride The Lightning, they must put in the effort of noticing that cripple I put on them, putting in the effort to condition-cleanse that cripple off, then time their dash appropriately and use it.
Sounds like so much of a burden, right? Oh wait. Every other class in the game must go through that exact same troublesome process as mentioned above when using their leaps and dashes. Every other class must put in that effort of cleansing slows in order to achieve maximum move skill range. So why don’t Eles. How come NOBODY has answered this question. Everyone tip toes around it but fails to answer it.
But ultimately, Eles aren’t even the main topic of discussion here. The real question is: Why do slows even affect the range of moving skills in the first place? And even with that in mind, why do certain moving skills get affected by slows, while other moving skills are immune to slows. What is the point of such discrimination and inconsistency with game mechanics? One of the largest aspects of GW2 PvP is appealing to casual gamers with simple-to-understand mechanics. So why is this mechanic so bogged down with confusing inconsistencies.
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Switching weapons cancels your movement abilities.
I just checked WW, Rush and Savage Leap and their ranges are increased by swiftness.
Thanks for the confirmation. Very good effort.
I still don’t believe a 33% increase in movement skill range balances out the -50% range reduction from slows. The reason is because of context. When your moving skills are affected by slows, it’s because you’re in a team fight. This is the time when you expect your abilities to work to their full potential, whether it is for gap-closing, disengaging, or creating distance. This is when your abilities need to shine, and that’s why it feels like a double penalty for slows to not only reduce movement speed, but to reduce the range of moving skills by -50%, too.
What I want to point out is why slows even affect moving skills. In every game out there, slows affect normal movement only. It’s just how it is. Slows = movement speed reduction. This is the only game where slows actually cut the range of moving skills by -50%.
What I find even more intriguing is how the game doesn’t even acknowledge this mechanic of skill range reduction. Not a single skill description states: “This slow also reduces the range of moving abilities by -50%.”
My belief is that the movement skill range reduction is an unintended biproduct of coding. Certain moving abilities are coded as “really fast normal movement”, so technically they aren’t considered leaps or dashes – they’re coded as normal movement (but really fast). That’s why they are affected by slows. On the other hand, other abilities are not coded in this way, and so they are immune to slows. Ranger’s Hornet Sting + Monarch’s Leap is an example of a leap that is actually coded as a leap, and is immune to slows.
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