Guild Wars 2

Updated: 25 November 2013

93917 – Resolved
98860 – Resolved
91920 – Resolved
94565 – Under review
85852 – Agent responded on 18 November. I suspect you did not get the e-mail because your ISP blocked it. Consider contacting from a different ISP (e-mail provider) and refer to your existing ticket to get assistance. (You will be asked ownership verification questions, for security reasons.)

style.6173:

@Devon,

I think there needs to be a variety of involvement from ANET people in the WvW thread. You have a lot going on. So does everyone else. Would be good to see more ANET presence though.

Comments such as this are not phrased properly though. “To be clear, this initiative is about discussion and not necessarily about action. When we find ideas that fit within our scope and the core philosophies of the game we do take them further, but that isn’t the goal of the whole thing, nor should it be the expectation that we will take action on any and all ideas.”

The D in CDI stands for development. If all that will happen is discussion, there isn’t much point for these threads.

Hi Style,

CDI is designed to create mind share and effect design philosophy and therefore will effect development. Personally i think DC covered that pretty well in his post. I would have worded the first sentence slightly differently though:

‘To be clear, this initiative is about discussion and not necessarily about action.’

‘To be clear, this initiative is focused around discussion which in turn will effect how Guild Wars 2 is developed moving forward.’

We will and do talk about ideas put forward to or created by the CDI that we intend to take further, however we won’t be talking about timing around feature deployment etc.

Hope this helps.

Chris

Hey Blackhawk,

We agree with your points on rewards, progression, and especially the bit about ‘standing out’ with titles/gear, etc. These are all things we’re working on addressing. Next week we’ll be giving out a ton of information on what we’re going to do in the short-term (think up to the end of the year) and what we’re going to be implementing next year.

Have your friend answer the account ownership verification questions he was sent today. We can’t make these changes without taking security measures, but we can help once we can establish he owns the account.

I had no idea this existed.

A report only prompts us to review an account. We’re careful about malicious reports designed to negatively impact other players. So the bottom line is: Reports don’t get a player suspended; what the player did is what prompted the suspension.

You may report issues of harassment of this type by using the in-game report system. We’ll review and if that person is guilty of a breach of the UA, RoC, or Naming Policy, we’ll take action.

Here’s the thread about Phishing: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/A-Note-about-Phishing-Emails-1/first#post3242473

Ecstacy —

First, I want to thank you for supporting our game so well. It’s awesome that you have purchased gems and we truly are grateful for that.

Second, I’d like to point out that what we are doing for you is exceptional. It’s not something you can expect or demand. It’s something we’re doing to go “above and beyond” in correcting an error that — forgive me — you made.

Third, your comments in the ticket are perfectly reasonable and very well said. Your comments here on the forums are surprisingly caustic!

You made an error and then submitted a ticket. You followed instructions, and now are waiting for your item. Understood.

But submitting a second ticket, posting here instead of the Tickets for Review thread, and posting harshly in response to people who simply are trying to help you is not so good.

We want to and will help you — probably today! But issues of this nature take time, and while we’re sorry for the delay, we need to ask you for a bit more patience.

Hello fellow PvPers,

This is a friendly reminder that we’ll be resetting the leaderboard for Solo Arena and Team Arena with tomorrow’s updates.

We decided to reset the leaderboards because of the matchmaking changes we put in on November 12th. Those changes, along with the leaderboard reset, should allow for a much more competitive environment going forward. Because the matches will be more competitive, players should also be placed in their correct rating much more accurately. I’d like to make it very clear that this reset does not mark the end of an official ‘season’, and as such, we will not be rewarding players for leaderboard placement. I know that this may be a tough pill to swallow for our more hardcore players, but we hope you understand our reasoning behind this.

That said, we’re not opposed to giving players rewards based on ladder placement in the future. Next week we’ll be able to give more details on our plans for the leaderboards, rewards, and beyond.

Greetings! Pardon this off-topic post, but I am assisting in getting this thread working again. Carry on!

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

cesmode.4257:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Um, thanks, Nike. I think we shouldn’t have to resort to ‘formatting schemes’ to have our posts read, but whatever works. I get the feeling it may be all for naught, anyway. The other threads are like ghost-towns. I will leave it in your more capable hands. =)

I somewhat disagree. There have been posts in the cdi that were a bit obnoxious with overly large bolded font that was formatted more than the usual post. Whether or not these are attempts to illicit developer response, i dont know. Obnoxious regardless.

I’m not sure I understand. You disagree that we shouldn’t have to resort to ‘formatting schemes’ to have our posts read? I would think every post that is polite should be read (but not necessarily responded to – that would be silly). If only certain ‘eye-catching’ posts are read by the Devs, what exactly is the purpose of these CDI threads? Just a place for the favored few to ‘represent’ us? Sounds like the ‘rep’ idea without a vote, even.

Twice, if not more often, it has been brought to attention that it seemed certain posts (posters) were granted more attention. I hope it just appeared that way, so everyone can be heard. I would not have thought, previously, my beloved ArenaNet would do otherwise.

Note: Effort in terms of formatting (in keeping with forum rules) do not improve or decrease the chances of a post being read. Personally i read all the posts unless it is clearly unproductive. Good formatting just makes it easier to read.

Chris

DevilLordLaser.8619:

While I would love to have an interesting and innovative idea to progress the development of the CDI as a tool for players and devs to stop hating each other come to a greater and more thorough understanding of each other’s needs and vision, I’m afraid I don’t. No Chris Whiteside reply for me. :’-(

What I do have is a caution, and in fact something of a plea, for players to not expect the impossible out of these threads and to remember that the developers do not simply often have to strike a fine balance between completely contradictory and mutually exclusive player desires; they always have to, and expecting the developers to weigh your personal pickin’ bone more heavily than someone else’s is a recipe for frustration, disappointment, and thread-derailing diatribes.

A fantastic example is Ascended gear. There are many, many, many players (among them myself) who feel that Ascended gear was a mistake – it’s too hard to get, it’s too unforgiving for players with acute altitis, etcetera. There is also a significant number of players who feel that Ascended gear wasn’t enough; that it’s too easy to get, that it doesn’t have enough advantages over exotic, etcetera. Any initiative to ease the pain of one group is an initiative which will be almost certain to incite and anger the other, and what so many players forget from their places hip-deep in their own camp’s vendetta is that each player’s viewpoint is as valid as any other.

Nobody wants something specifically to be mean and cruel to other people who want not-that-thing. They want something because they feel it will make the game better, or because they feel it will cure a deficiency the game is currently suffering. Arguments, anger, and rustled jimmies arise when players forget that what seems like a blindingly obvious problem with an equally easy solution to them is, in fact, no such thing to someone else.

If we can – pretty please - keep this sort of thing in mind, I think we’ll have a much better time discussing normally-incendiary things like rewards, gear and progression in CDI topics. Which is important since it seems to be a hot-button issue in all three CDI areas and is very likely to pop up in the next phase of the initiative.

This post has excellent intentions and good reasoning behind it and i would say that it does indeed (ironically) build toward CDI evolving in a productive manner:

‘While I would love to have an interesting and innovative idea to progress the development of the CDI as a tool for players and devs to stop hating each other come to a greater and more thorough understanding of each other’s needs and vision, I’m afraid I don’t’

Chris

It is true that the purpose of this thread is to discuss the process moving forward, not to discuss topics or solutions to issues with WvW currently. In looking through this thread and thinking back to the previous thread, it’s pretty clear that the main sticking point with this initiative is interaction or perceived lack thereof from the development team. I think part of that comes down to some of the things you have all mentioned, specifically:

Being more clear about what can and can’t be discussed.
Providing a more focused topic that can be discussed more fully.
More clearly listing out the constraints of the discussion.

Those are things we can do a lot about in the next iteration of the CDI. I’m also curious what your thoughts are on some of the things raised in the PvE thread. Like, do you think it would be more fruitful to discuss a topic that we decide on, or to discuss one that you are all interested in? To be clear, this initiative is about discussion and not necessarily about action. When we find ideas that fit within our scope and the core philosophies of the game we do take them further, but that isn’t the goal of the whole thing, nor should it be the expectation that we will take action on any and all ideas.

As for posting frequency, it is always the case that our first responsibility is to the game and the continued production of the features and content. It can pose a barrier to frequent posting and it is especially true at a time like now, which combines holidays with pretty extensive work to make sure our current work on the Edge of the Mists is proceeding as planned. I can’t promise to be in here every day, but I can promise to remain engaged in the thread as much as can reasonably be expected on top of my other duties running the WvW team.

I hope that you will all continue to engage in this initiative in the spirit it is intended and continue to foster a good discussion about the fundamentals of WvW design.

Devon

SkullRaven.5630:

~snip~ So to answer my question quite directly, if I no longer have my serial number does that mean I will not be able to play the game again until the issue is resolved?

There are other means to prove ownership. If the CS team member is only accepting the serial code, and cannot use other information, then there may be a question about ownership of the account. I cannot address this specifically because I am not looking at the ticket. However, there are not a whole lot of occasions when we can help only if we have a serial code. Continue to work with the team; I believe they can help you.

If this is still occurring, could you leave the names of the Servers that are affected? I just checked Blackgate and Tocatl was standing where he should be by Ol’ Stinky. I’d also like to clarify that for the ‘Tower of Nightmares’ release and ‘The Nightmares Within’ release, the skill point was moved slightly. It originally was on the tip of the peninsula north of the Eukaryan Caves and we moved it to the island above the Tagotl Grounds (the island just south of Viathan Waypoint in Kessex Hills)

Thank you all, I’ll keep looking in to this, but it would be most helpful if I knew which servers were affected

Wreave.2138:

I’m still condering the possibility that the problem is on ArenaNets end — i.e. perhaps there’s an internal problem that is preventing ArenaNet from actually sending the emails for some yahoo users. I had hoped that Gaile would post more info here about what ArenaNet is doing and what they have done in working on this issue, but I have yet to see that.

As several of us have noted the Remove Authentication button is grayed out. Is that by design? Or is it a bug? If it’s a bug, perhaps it actually its actually related to why we’re also not getting authentication email.

Removing Authentication requires assistance from Support. So yes, that is by design. The disabling of this feature is not related to the e-mail problems.

Hi folks,

I wanted to update you on this situation. We are looking at this issue from every viewpoint, and are not discounting any possibility. However, the evidence points to this being an issue on the part of the ISPs, and not necessarily on our end.

Don’t worry — we also are reviewing our systems. But our mails go out through two totally difference systems. For instance, receipts are sent through a different system than support tickets. Authentication doesn’t come from the same source as a newsletter, etc., etc. So it seems unlikely that we have the issue, when some people using a specific ISP have issues with e-mails coming from any of our sending systems.

Some people using the listed e-mail providers are just fine. They can submit tickets, we get their responses, they get our responses, and all is well. Others, for reasons that are not clear, are not getting anything, or only getting “E-mail Type A” and not “E-mail Type B.”

We’re on the case! (We’re trying to schedule phone meetings with the ISPs.) But in the meantime: If you are not getting e-mails that you expect to receive — receipts, ticket responses, authentication e-mails — you may want to consider creating a new account on a different provider and writing in through that provider. (Please choose a provider that is not on the list of those having problems. List is in the first post in this thread.)

If you contact us through a new e-mail account, we will need to verify that you are the account owner, for security reasons. But using a different e-mail account may be the only way for us to exchange e-mails until we can work with each ISP to get this problem resolved.

Interesting . . . No wonder Grouch hasn’t shown up to work today. . . He is sleeping in the mists.

Hi All,

Please see below something i just posted on the WvW CDI evolution area that i think is worth discussing here to:

’I also think i made a mistake by starting three threads about the process evolution of CDI. The goal of this particular thread type is to raise issues, discuss solutions, and brainstorm new opportunities.

I think this goal could have been better served by just having a single thread where all contributors could have discussed the global evolution of CDI together bringing up relevant examples for their specific areas.

Certainly worth discussing i think.

Note this revelation came from Vi Au’s post.

I will post this on PVE thread to.

Chris’

Chris

I also think i made a mistake by starting three threads about the process evolution of CDI. The goal of this particular thread type is to raise issues, discuss solutions, and brainstorm new opportunities.

I think this goal could have been better served by just having a single thread where all contributors could have discussed the global evolution of CDI together bringing up relevant examples for their specific areas.

Certainly worth discussing i think.

Note this revelation came from Vi Au’s post.

I will post this on PVE thread to.

Chris

gidorah.4960:

Vi Au.8341:

go read the pve CDI and write how you think future WvW CDI should be. Chris is doing a fantastic job and said he will work with the other CDI to help them improve. he read everything there and reply to a lot of the posters.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Process-Evolution/page/7#post3258645

yeah i probably shouldnt be the only one who brings up how bad it is here i think chris has started to ignore me.

Hi Gidorah,

Please understand i am absolutely not ignoring you, and appreciate your contribution.

And we have already been talking today about the feedback over the weekend at work today and how we can all do more to make the initiative a success.

Chris

nethykins.7986:

Nike.2631:

I’m not sure why you say that. The community managers still handle thousands of threads each day. Moderators will still be needed even (maybe especially…) in CDI threads to comb out off topic and abusive posts. Community managers also serve an important function in identifying and forwarding along specific concerns, but in this case that’s unnecessary as there is a Developer-Owner present to do that directly.

I say it because from what interaction they have with the community (and from what you’ve also described), it feels like it’s closer to a alternative title of Moderator.

I stated in an earlier post when i first asked the question, why is it that I see the community managers never really communicating with the community, and when it is, it’s often to give a warning, tell someone they’re incorrect and present them with fact, or closing a thread.

Even my single interaction with a community manager came from asking why threads were being deleted/closed on a ‘shoot first, ask questions later’ policy way back earlier this year. First I got an infraction for bringing it up, then I got a response from a community manager, and I even Thanked them for responding, then the thread was closed.

So much for communication.

I sincerely hope you, or Anet don’t think community managers should just sit back, collect info on what’s bugging us, but never reach out to us?

I understand this is a dev owned thread, but does that make them exempt from adding to the discussion, or visibly assisting, and hell, maybe they may even communicate…with the community.

I suppose I’m just alone in thinking this.

Hi Nethy,

I am going to reply. I am just having a very busy day.

Chris

Quick reminder that the process evolution threads will run until next Monday 2nd December to take into account the holiday period.

Chris

Nike.2631:

I’m curious if you have reasons we are missing for NOT doing smaller arcs? Maybe 2 months/8 episodes as an average. I feel like maybe the Frost and Flame arc would have been stronger if, even with unresolved questions, it hadn’t been tied to the mega-arc you’ve been building. I was actually saddened to see Molten Alliance pop up in the invasions – it largely invalidated my previous sense of accomplishment in shutting down that threat.

It seems like shorter story runs would allow for more limited – and plausible – central villains. For more regular pays offs of satisfaction for players at the resolution. For chances at genuine surprise at the occasional unexpected villainous comeback.

One of the best received elements of the LS both posted and in my personal experience have been the undocumented bits of foreshadowing. The unannounced changes in the map that our dedicated corps of Player-Explorers stumble over and bring to the broader public’s attention. These might be made even more effect as catalysts for speculation if we really didn’t know who the next major villain was going to be for the next couple of months.

Having smaller story runs with a more focused narrative is something we’re discussing. One thing that we’ve learned throughout our first year of Living World updates is that the pacing of the overall story was too slow for most people.

EDIT: I just want to clarify I mean the pacing of the story and not the release cadence.

Things should be coming back to normal. Thanks for the notice.

Hi Morbridae – The installation will not complete due to the fact that your graphics card does not meet the minimum requirements and your CPU is borderline. You’ll want to make sure that you are playing on a system that meets all of the minimum requirements in order to successfully install the game.

Hi Thagan – Mobile connections are not supported for Guild Wars 2 due to their instability. Unfortunately there isn’t anything that we could do for you to prevent this issue from happening.

If you witness any of these acts while playing, please report them using the in-game ticketing system so our Customer Support team can properly investigate the issue. You can also report someone in-game.

whyme.3281:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

FYI if we go with the next topics from the initial call for topics threads (Global) then they are as follows:

PVE: Ascended Gear
PvP: Rewards and Progression
WvW: Skill Lag

These are all pretty focused topics which means we will be able to enter into the discussions more readily in terms of time. The bigger the topic the more divergent the discussions and this makes it harder for us to give them our full attention.

Chris

Can we see a complete list of the next 3+ topics?

Hi Whyme,

Here is the data you requested:

PvE Request for Topics Results

1 Living World
2 Ascended Gear/Ascended Items
3 Class Balance

WvW Request for Topics Results

1 Population (Imbalance)
2 Skill Lag
3 Commander (functionality, system, tag)

PvP Request for Topics Results

1 Game Modes
2 Rewards (progression)
3 Build Diversity

Chris

@ bertillec

There’s nothing customer support will be able to do to help you with this bug. I’ve found the root cause, and the fix will be out to you as soon as it can! Thanks for listening!

jheryn.8390:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Each thread has an owner, I am the owner of the PVE thread. My plan is to work with each of the owners to help them grow to better handle the topics moving forward. I want the individual owners themselves to reply and connect in a meaningful and relevant manner, thus it is disingenuous for me to go in and own another thread (never mind taking into account the time that would eat up for me). However this does not preclude me from working with the guys and girls to build a better path to success in this initiative.

Thanks for clarifying that you are not the owner of each thread. It is good to know you do not have to manage all of them.

One question after looking at this post from you and other posts on the thread, does this mean that you will have a CDI question in each area (PvP, WvW, and PvE) going on at the same time or just one at any given time. Or am I reading this wrong and nothing about that has been decided yet?

And dude!!! Huge props for handling some of the beating you get here. It is pure class the way you compose yourself on the thread.

Hi Jheryn,

Regarding your question we haven’t decided yet.

And thanks for you feedback, i am really enjoying working with everyone.

Chris

I’m taking a look. Thanks for the heads up.

Quarktastic.1027:

I don’t think even the writers know who E is.

Actually, we do.

I just wanted to say that this is a really interesting thread. I’m going to take some time to read through it when I have a break in my schedule. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, opinions, and theories with us.

jsduke.6537:

1. Story bridges. I think you guys may have bitten off a little more than you can chew with the current LW story arc. It’s super huge and that makes it a poor trial run for a new game element like LW. I can’t identify a common story thread that connects the LW content we’ve had since August. In retrospect, I can see the Scarlet thread, but that doesn’t account for everything that’s happened (or at least doesn’t seem to). It’s very important that players be able to identify how current story developments come from previous story elements, and lead to future elements to establish continuity. When we think about the story, we need to be able to sense the shape of it, even if we don’t know what all of the pieces are, or what’s going to happen next. When the next “episode” of the show comes out, make sure it follows what has come before it in a recognizable way. And, when possible, make sure the resolution of the current “episode” sets up the next piece, so we can experience a sense of expectation and have fun speculating about what might happen next. (That’s how you build tension into a story.)

I think that’s a fair assessment. Some of the releases have a looser connection to the Scarlet thread than others. Some of that is due to messaging and story/character presentation in the game, and the rest is due to how we, as a group, decided on the location and gameplay needs of each release. Finding that balance of multiplayer-friendly gameplay, satisfying rewards, challenge, and captivating, character-driven story is very difficult especially when you have four teams running at once. This has been the focus of a lot of my meetings as of late. I’m working on a proposal to address the story concerns in the new year.

jsduke.6537:

1. Give us 3 Acts in each episode. So far, you’ve been pretty good at exposition and really good at the complications in Act 2 (where all the action is!). But it seems like we’re missing out on Act 3 every time. We are confronted with a new development that needs our attention, we engage the conflict in battle, and… then… we are confronted with a new development that needs our attention. No Act 3. To reprise what I’ve said above: Act 2 is great! Act 1 and 3 need some attention. From a storytelling point of view, I really think that developing the third act of each episode is going to net you the best return for your efforts at this time.

This is easier said than done since each of our LW teams is pretty small. That stated, if we’re going to embrace a more episodic delivery structure we’ll have to mold our content to fit within it. This is one of the items that’s going into my proposal.

jsduke.6537:

1. Previously, on Guild Wars 2… Episodic storytelling needs the occasional recap. Especially when the subsequent episodes can be over a month apart in some cases. We need some record of the current story arc’s progression. I think the Priory is the best place for this to happen. It is their job, after all, and they already have the facilities to make it happen. That Place of Power in the heart of the Priory? That can be the nexus where the “story so far” is accessible for review. Whatever form the recap takes, the Priory is the most appropriate agent for such a thing.

Agreed. A recap of the last release is important. We haven’t done this so far due to scoping restrictions with our current development model, but it’s become clear that we need some mechanism to fill people in on the story stuff they may have missed. We have one solution planned for next year, but getting a cinematic (if it’s feasible) or at least some conversation recaps are worthwhile if the teams can fit them in the schedule. Really, it comes down to better planning and having the available resources.

jsduke.6537:

1. I very much enjoyed the roll out of the current “Tower of The Nightmares Within” episode. The foreshadowing prior to the roll out was really cool. The initial instance and the subsequent cut-scene were perfect exposition of the current episode…. Overall, I think the ANet team is doing a fantastic job working towards some very ambitious goals. Although my interest has been waning lately, I have great confidence that GW2 is headed in the right direction with a great team of people working really hard to create a truly unique MMO experience. I may step back from the game some in the coming weeks and months, but I won’t stray far if I do, and I will definitely be keeping an eye on how the game develops.

Thanks again, for all that you do!

Thanks for the kind words.

‘The Nightmare Unveiled’ was the story instance for the ‘Tower of Nightmares’ release. Once ‘The Nightmares Within’ release came out on 11/12, ‘The Nightmare Unveiled’ was no longer accessible.

Nike.2631:

Nike.2631:

Is there anything you can tell us that would help us relate to your motives for this character? Something that will let us set better expectations and maybe give better feedback?

BobbyStein.2315:

I started to reply to each question in your post but ran out of time today. SPOILER: I was in meetings.

Duty calls. Perhaps later .

Questions like these may be more suited for an interview since the answers can be rather long when discussing the creative process, project constraints, etc. I would like to share some insights on Scarlet and other Living World characters but I’m not sure the forums are the best place. Let me think on that for a bit.

I’d like to think this would be an excellent venue. “Creative Process” is at the heart of the CDI as I understand it. Our ignorance of “project constraints” is probably one of the biggest stumbling blocks to players bringing you workable suggestions. The untold story of creating the common thread running though so many of the Living Story episodes would be immensely revealing about the non-story demands a character like Scarlet has to rise to.

((Oh, and while its in another thread, your mini-game joke made me laugh quite hard. A good sign that talking about Scarlet doesn’t always have to be so serious!))

Agreed.

Sondergaard.8469:

BobbyStein.2315:

A mail delay is an interesting idea, at least for roleplay immersion. I’ll have to ask a designer on that. Bear in mind that there might be reasons in place why we don’t do it but I’ll ask just the same. I’m curious just as you are.

I personally do not like the idea of a mail delay. To give you a few scenarios where this could run astray, say a player is playing on a limited timeframe and they go through the content, complete it, know there is supposed to be a reward but then check their mail and see no reward present.

The first thing they are going to do is email your customer support and complain that the event/heart/achievement bugged out. This creates extra workload for your customer support who is already stretching thin with more serious and legitimate issues than ones created by a design decision like this.

The second reason I would not like this change is the disconnect between completion and reward. Say I complete 2 or 3 things and the mail isn’t scheduled to arrive for an hour or two. I’m one of those players with a limited timeframe to play. I log out, and I might not log in for a few days. When I come back, where those rewards came from might not be as obvious as they would if they were delivered in the moment.

It’s a minor gripe, but the disconnect between understanding what I’m being rewarded for thanks to the time gap would be enough to be a frustration for at least a few of your players. Beyond that though, I’ve already had to wait for my reward. All the hours invested prior into achieving it should be enough. If I’m doing all the grind to get an item, I don’t want to have to wait an additional arbitrary period ‘for immersion’ to receive my reward.

tl:dr don’t fix what isn’t broken.

That was my thought. Right now people are accustomed to receiving renown heart rewards upon completion. A delay would inconvenience a lot of people who are used to the current behavior.

Might be neat to have an optional “RP” option that a player could check off in preferences that would alter certain game or UI behavior. For example, if checked it would delay mail by X minutes, maybe hide things like starbursts on the UI for people who like to explore and not be led directly to objectives like a traditional RPG, etc. Disclaimer: I have no idea how much work that would entail or if it aligns with our core design directives. I’m just thinking aloud here.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

No idea how to do that…or that double quote thing, Nike. I just read the ‘summary’ three pages back in that still open thread. Lol. You are very popular. It was also about 10 Dev posts back. It did reference some people’s ideas, but no clue what those ideas were. It also said there would be more summarizing, I hope that gets taken care of.
What I got most out of it, was that ArenaNet were already doing most of the things suggested, and if they were not readily recognizable, they would be in the future.

Sounds cool…all’s well that ends well. =)

I will post the summary links tomorrow.

+1 for the Shakespeare quote!

Chris

Nike.2631:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Taking Nike’s suggestions to get posts read, perhaps.

That appears to have worked out for you .

((Though, were it me, I would have trimmed the quoted text down considerably. It makes it easier to draw a direct line between what they said and what you’re inquiring about.))

In fact the percentage of Dev posts that start with ‘Nike.2631 quotes’ has plummeted in the last few hours .

That is because you haven’t been posting (-:

Chris

One final thing i wanted to mention to the group before heading of to bed is to note that whilst i have been posting relatively frequently over the weekend, this is not something i expect from the team. It is my choice to spend my free time this way and not something i would promote in regard to how the team spend their weekends.

I am mentioning this in order to set expectations around my interaction this weekend (which by the way i have very much enjoyed) in regard to my ability to interact moving forward.

This comment is not intended to diminish the value of the problem solving around the issues we have discussed about team member engagement on threads during work time however.

Chris

Hi Rhyse,

Thanks a lot for taking the time to share your thoughts.There is a lot to think about in regard to your points, so i will respond tomorrow so i can have more time to think about your proposal.

Chris

Rhyse.8179:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

I don’t want to derail the thread but i would also like to know how everyone would like the next topics to be chosen. Simply would you like to vote again or would you like us to pick the second topics on the respective lists?

Finally i have said this many times so for those that have seen it repeatedly please forgive me for the repetition, but once again i want to make it clear that the only ‘feedback’ i have asked the team not to spend their time on are those comments which are not productive. Specifically comments with no actionable substance. Whilst it is nice to see positive commentary we spend a lot more time discussing and negative criticism so we can learn more and improve the game.

Again for the feedback on how to improve the CDI,

Chris

Voting is fine for choosing topics, as long as previous ones are off limits for a certain time to prevent the same thing from coming up repeatedly. Which is common sense and I expect you do anyway.

As for how to improve CDI, most of my feedback will be below. However I want to emphasize and agree with what others have said about solid guidelines from the devs- an initial post with your thoughts, vision, goals, what have you. This is important to direct the discussion toward areas that you, the devs, actually feel are actionable.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

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What do you all think of this proposal:

That we only have one thread per area open at one time, for example, the next PVE one then PvP and then WvW?

I have been thinking about this for a few days and believe the major issue would be the overall velocity of the CDI, and the main Pro being that we will have more time to enter into discussions due to only having to focus on one at a time.

Thoughts?

Chris

I think that’s fine, and I might even extend it. A 1 month cycle would allow for a massive amount of time and discussion- probably too much. UNLESS!!! On a roughly weekly basis, the devs come in and comment with their own thoughts, responses, and a proposal of changes. This means that any given area will get worked over several times by all parties, and in theory (if everyone behaves!) get more of what we want done, in the way that you need to do it.

Now, actually 1 month is probably too long for a discussion cycle, but some kind of extended discussion should be used. I’m going to steal from CCP and EVE Online for this idea, because I think they have the best player/dev interaction currently in the industry. At least after Monoclegate happened :P (every EVE player reading this just laughed and groaned at the same time, producing a sound not entirely unlike the bleating of a drunken walrus). Now, they don’t interact as directly as you are attmepting to with CDI, but they do seem to have a really good format going and it’s given some amazing results over the last year and a half since they started it. Anyway, format break for the big idea:

Use an iterative development cycle, perhaps 3 months long. That is Discussion > Testing (side note: open tests would be HIGHLY beneficial! get you one) > Delivery > wait 3 months > Review Results and adjust the original changes as needed. If a pass didn’t have the desired results, or has major flaws, this quick re-pass lets you tune it up. It also shows that CDI is for real when you come back and directly revisit things, and that will pay off in a big way after a couple cycles.

This means you ensure that not only are you working on what the community needs via CDI topics, but you are revisiting it at regular intervals to make sure it turned out right. It’s better for the players, because when a big change happens there is recourse to fix the problems, and it’s better for the Devs because you can think big and potentially make major changes without major community meltdowns (guarunteed review = constructive outlet). Obviously details and timelines would need worked out and that’s up to you guys and how you run your studio. Even flexible timelines are fine, as long as you keep everyone up to date so there’s no flipping out.

Keep this process up for a year or two and GW2 could become incredible. You may truly be able to make a living MMO that grows with it’s players. So far, only EVE has even come close, and based on how you’ve handled the CDI discussions so far I think Anet may eventually be able to beat them. I’m not going to derail this into a business discussion, but take a look at EVE’s subscriber history over the past 10 years and it should become clear that none of this is about QQ or marking fire hydrants, but about the kind of benefits there are for both sides. You’ve had a very rocky start in the first year (I myself got a refund in protest when Ascended gear was released, and only re-subbed last month when the game went on sale), but I truly hope you succeed.

morrolan.9608:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The next topic for WvW after skill lag is: Commander mechanics and Commander tag functionality.

Then when is WXP cause that is a definite hot button topic and has been for a long time?

Hi Morrolan,

I am only aware of the top three in each area and WXP wasn’t one of them. I would imagine WvW progression was pretty high up though. It is certainly a discussion i would like to see.

Chris

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Nimrod.9240:

Couple things and suggestions:

- as mentioned by Chris only one CDI overall at a time (if this means more and better participation from Anet)

- for each new CDI Anet should send out an ingame mail announcement, something like “our new CDI is about [topic], we are going to discuss this because of [concerns], if you want to help improve the game come visit [forumsection]”

- the devs from Anet that will take part in the CDI should introduce themselfs in extra posts following the starting one (their thoughts on the topic, what they have to do with it)

- for a better overview as the thread grows i would suggest linking every dev reply in the first post, e.g. http://forum.tibia.com/forum/?action=thread&threadid=4015891 (it think you need to copy&paste the link manually to work)
even if you are late to the party, just by checking the first post you get an easy overview what topics have already been addressed

I think we should continue to discuss the CDI cadence for example 1 at a time or a hybrid of this and the original model.

The rest of your points are really good and i think we should probably do them unless anyone has any concerns?

Note i would have to check the logistics around the email idea, but more exposition of the initiative would be great.

Chris

Taking Nike’s suggestions to get posts read, perhaps.

I still do not understand the purpose of having one CDI thread at a time, when you have stated a few times that each thread is ‘manned’ by different Devs. I thought you had stated previously the reason for ‘one at a time’ was to allow more time for Devs to focus their attention on each thread and not be spread too thin over the three. If each thread has its own Devs, why would they be spread over the three threads?

I’m not sure there is a lot of advantage in having to wait 3 to 6 weeks for each topic. (So far, each thread of this type – those created by Devs for feedback – has seemed to stay open longer than originally intended.) The length of some threads also may discourage participation from those ‘coming late to the party’, or even those who haven’t ‘kept up’.

I noticed that at the beginning of this thread when we were discussing which topic would be next, it seemed most replies favored ‘Dev choice’, but ‘next in line’ was chosen (by a Dev). I guess that worked out, in an odd way, but when Devs choose to implement something other than popular-demand, it would be nice to hear the reason why…if possible.

Oh, and for those of us who have missed it, or failed to understand, could you give a synopsis of what we (Devs and players) have learned and/or decided on so far from all the previous and current CDI threads. I, personally, feel a little lost. Thank you for your time.

Hi Inculpatas,

Regarding the discussion about one thread at a time. The advantage for us currently is that the team could concentrate on one topic at a time rather than having three threads to keep up with and therefore have more time to get involved. It would also allow me to enter the discussion of the threads in different areas. Note i am still undecided about this particular discussion. I to am very worried about the time it would take to rotate between topics and for this reason alone that could be a big enough con to not move forward with the above proposal.

Regarding topic choice, no decision has been made yet as to whether we will move ahead with the next topic in line or that the team picks the next topic.

There is a summary of each CDI resident near the end of each topic in their pertinent parts of the forum.

Hope this helps?

Chris

Is this team arena?

Nimrod.9240:

Couple things and suggestions:

- as mentioned by Chris only one CDI overall at a time (if this means more and better participation from Anet)

- for each new CDI Anet should send out an ingame mail announcement, something like “our new CDI is about [topic], we are going to discuss this because of [concerns], if you want to help improve the game come visit [forumsection]”

- the devs from Anet that will take part in the CDI should introduce themselfs in extra posts following the starting one (their thoughts on the topic, what they have to do with it)

- for a better overview as the thread grows i would suggest linking every dev reply in the first post, e.g. http://forum.tibia.com/forum/?action=thread&threadid=4015891 (it think you need to copy&paste the link manually to work)
even if you are late to the party, just by checking the first post you get an easy overview what topics have already been addressed

I think we should continue to discuss the CDI cadence for example 1 at a time or a hybrid of this and the original model.

The rest of your points are really good and i think we should probably do them unless anyone has any concerns?

Note i would have to check the logistics around the email idea, but more exposition of the initiative would be great.

Chris

nethykins.7986:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

As you have read in point three i have expressed the issues that i think were core to that CDI not being more successful. Each thread has an owner, I am the owner of the PVE thread. My plan is to work with each of the owners to help them grow to better handle the topics moving forward. I want the individual owners themselves to reply and connect in a meaningful and relevant manner, thus it is disingenuous for me to go in and own another thread (never mind taking into account the time that would eat up for me). However this does not preclude me from working with the guys and girls to build a better path to success in this initiative. Thus i would ask you to remain patient, see how things improve and continue to feedback in a manner that is productive to the evolution of CDI as a whole.

Chris

Not to dwell on this too much, but perhaps there’s a case here for setting up rules for yourselves as well as us. We currently have to comply with a few ground-rules before starting the discussion, and we (mostly) adhere to them. Maybe we should have a few set ground rules for the Anet team to make sure it’s not lopsided.
For example a single one to start off with that isn’t going to break the CDI overall would be:
- If an Anet employee “owns/coordinates” the thread, they are expected to participate in it too, or it will be designated to someone better suited.

That way, we and you know where we both stand on this. You don’t contribute to a discussion you start; you’re in the wrong….if we don’t give constructive feedback/put out personal attacks; we’re in the wrong. Simple.

I know, it sounds a little patronising, but I think it’s fair game, if you set up a big initiative, and can’t follow through on one section at the very start, it’s not likely to progress in a positive manner from there on. However, I did notice this:

Third, i am sorry that the WvW thread wasn’t more like the PVE one. This is my fault in that i underestimated how busy the guys were

You honorably take the fall for time mismanagement but, strangely won’t jump into the WvW thread to relay that over to them, and discuss those failings? (I can’t say if you have, i’m only taking yours and gidorah’s word for it)

Not sure if I completely follow that logic, (but hey, I can’t complain I watched and participated in the PvE thread) but it’d be nice to see some of that newly created disdain for a WvW CDI disappear, so you can actually move forward.

Hope that all made sense!

Hi Nethykins,

Your post does make sense and i very much appreciate this section in particular:

‘but it’d be nice to see some of that newly created disdain for a WvW CDI disappear, so you can actually move forward.’

I very much intend for this to happen.

Chris

cesmode.4257:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

cesmode.4257:

Chris, when you return could you comment on the response and implimentation trnaround for some of the ideas we have put forth? Im not talking about exact timeframes but for things like adjusting the amount of achievement grind, for example…is that something that could happen relatively quickly like a mon or two…or are we looking at many months before we see and result of these discussions.

I know internal discussions need to happen, coding, etc… But on some of the topics we talked about for living story, the amount of my playtime may be determined by how quickly some of thisgetsput in. Thanks

Hi Cesmode,

Generally when we agree on a point it means that we will discuss it with the team and go from there. Reducing the "grind’ in achievements is something we have been working on for a while and the last topic discussion has only furthered our commitment to get the balance right sooner. We can’t give a timing cadence on specific features but we can talk about changes or evolutions to our design philosophy.

In my summary i listed the points we agree with and those that we will look into again. I hope this helps?

Chris

Well i was looking for something like…when you agree on an idea internally does it take months to become reality? My interest has been waning because of the things we have been discussing and i was looking to see if there is light a the end of the tunnel sooner rather than later.

It depends on the particular area, some can be almost immediate and others could take months. In future i will be sure to give more explanation about what goes into the development of features or areas we are discussing.

Chris

gidorah.4960:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Gidorah,

First of all i was listing the next topics and asking everyone’s thoughts on choosing the original topics. I made no comment on whether or not that discussion was valid.

Secondly there is certainly value to discussing this issue being that any ArenaNet dev is welcome to post.

Third, i am sorry that the WvW thread wasn’t more like the PVE one. This is my fault in that i underestimated how busy the guys were, and also that they feel anxious around posting due to not being a 100% percent sure about what they can discuss and secondly their trepidation in posting which can be a pretty difficult environment for them sometimes.

Fourth, be under no illusion that these guys work very hard, play the hell out of WvW and are excellent at their jobs. Please note that i also (like many others at Arena) play WvW.

Finally my proposal around the next topics for discussion was to hear folks opinions. Please don’t assume what my personal opinion is around those individual topics.

I appreciate your patience and hope that this makes some sense.

Chris

Hi Gidorah,

I would suggest reading this post again, specifically point three. I am at a loss as to how better explain to you that there was an issue with the WvW CDI and the areas we will be concentrating on to fix any issues.

You are starting to waste my time and the time of community members contributing to bettering the process through problem solving and evolving discussion.

Chris

I think the problem is I haven’t seen any real effort to fix it yet. You havent stepped into the wvw thread to talk about how the wvw thread in particular went with the actual wvw community. Instead you stay here and make them come to you and derail this thread because you won’t adresss the concerns they are having in their thread. Which to be honest is pretty similar to how you handled the actual cdi.

Hi Gidorah,

I think this section is fair and deserves some more insight:

‘I think the problem is I haven’t seen any real effort to fix it yet. You havent stepped into the wvw thread to talk about how the wvw thread in particular went with the actual wvw community. ’

As you have read in point three i have expressed the issues that i think were core to that CDI not being more successful. Each thread has an owner, I am the owner of the PVE thread. My plan is to work with each of the owners to help them grow to better handle the topics moving forward. I want the individual owners themselves to reply and connect in a meaningful and relevant manner, thus it is disingenuous for me to go in and own another thread (never mind taking into account the time that would eat up for me). However this does not preclude me from working with the guys and girls to build a better path to success in this initiative. Thus i would ask you to remain patient, see how things improve and continue to feedback in a manner that is productive to the evolution of CDI as a whole.

Chris