Guild Wars 2

ozmaniandevil.6805:

it is quite possible that people who suffer from physical or mental disabilities play these kinds of games a lot.

Which changes what, exactly? Homes to the disabled just end up feeling like gilded cages. No medical professional who values their career or knowledge would suggest that disabled people shouldn’t live socially constructive lives.

Dante.1763:

Cuddy.6247:

Maybe I’m just old-fashioned but being plugged-in for most, if not all, of your free time just seems like you’re avoiding the awkwardness that can come with real life, spontaneous interaction.

Musta missed the part where i work and go to college huh? 4-9 hours of work most days and 3-4 hours of college, thats quite enough human interaction for me! xD

You must have missed the part where I was discussing in relation to the absurd times of 8-10 hours/day, which you categorically fall out of. Keep in mind that these are averages. This isn’t like just wanting to not get out of the house on a rainy day so played games instead. This is systematically logging in enough hours to have an average of 8-10 hours per day. This obviously doesn’t apply to you, since you’re working and mingling in school.

Not to mention the times wouldn’t add up. Assuming that people are in good health and actually sleep about eight hours a night, you only have 16 hours left – 8-12 of which will be spent doing other activities (such as your job and school). There’s no room for ten hour times for you. If you’d trade your social interaction at work/school though for more game time, I would say that’s socially unhealthy.

Dante.1763:

Cuddy.6247:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Hope this puts a smile on your face OP

That’s ten hours a day…

Seeing some of the numbers in this thread, does this seriously not bother some of you guys? Because if I looked back on two years and noticed I logged 10 hours a day on a computer game I’d probably throw myself off the nearest bridge.

Not really. I work, i go to school(College) i play video games, i talk to my BF for the one hour hes up at the same time i am(Yay different parts of the world), so its pretty easy to get a mass number of hours logged

Maybe I’m just old-fashioned but being plugged-in for most, if not all, of your free time just seems like you’re avoiding the awkwardness that can come with real life, spontaneous interaction.

Draegon.1508:

Everyone is doing a BEAUTIFUL job of missing both the part where I said OPTIONAL

Nobody missed it, they’re just pointing out that the option already exists via different armor sets. If you think a particular armor set should be changed, then that is your problem with that design – not a thematic observation. Cherrypick any example you want, but there are modest and skimpy, no need to waste development resources on something so arbitrary.

If you really, really, really can’t find a modest set you thematically like as much as the skimpy, then you might be like me and just really picky. In which case, it’s time to hang up your hat and try something else.

DeceiverX.8361:

I’m all for diversity, though, especially for what is the medium armor in GW2; it’s pretty much either all trench coats, or totally impractical/ridiculous.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/e/e0/Shining_Blade_ranger.jpg

Just give me this and I’ll be happy with medium armor. GW1 felt so much more…sensible?

I’ve never seen a great deal of disparity between modest and skimpy armors, but there’s definitely a great deal of disparity in stylish choice. If you want a Kratos or a Tolkien ranger getup, you’re SOL – but if you want to look like a playboy model or a massive juggernaut with too many spikes, there’s plenty of options in the game.

In my opinion, less is more. There’s no need to throw on a bunch of extra kitten just to make armor stylish. Human heavy T3 is a perfect example.

I just want a dungeon rotation included in PvE dailies. The rest I’m rather satisfied with. Well, maybe with the exception of some of the WvW ones…lower tiered servers sometimes get painfully boned because EotM is a hot mess and the WvW “zergs” are nonexistent at best. But that’s a whole can of worms with WvW that has nothing to do with the dailies.

Centurion.7296:

Well its like that game called rl, when one old(veteran) person(player) leaves it, a new person (player) comes into the world and the second oldest generation of the world slowly starts to take the position of the oldest generation.
And so is the cycle of life.

That’s not how it is at all. Player retention is an extremely important factor of any game, a mark of a successful game is even having 1/3 player retention rates. I imagine ANet knows what they’re doing and have it just fine.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/0/0d/Shining_Blade_warrior.jpg

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/e/e0/Shining_Blade_ranger.jpg

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/9/98/Shining_Blade_caster.jpg

Honestly we just need 3 skins in Heart of Thorns (heavy, medium and light respectively). No need to ask for the world on a silver platter.

Evalia.7103:

I was always interested in finding the optimal combination of Power+Precision+Ferocity

Zerker.

Tman.6349:

Bonus challenge: Present for us a single case where anyone is/could “buy low and sell for hundreds of times more”. (I’m interested in some new markets!)

Probably television or internet, Americans love that streaming. You could probably buy it out and forge a nice monopoly – not ten times over, but perhaps at 120% of current market value. Good luck acquiring the tremendous fortune it would take to topple TWC, Comcast or Google though. I’ll be rooting for you.

You’re forgetting some very important real world aspects like production value, subsidization and and customer satisfaction and retention. In the United States, anyway, the Farm Bill is a gross incentive for large farming firms to lower overproduction so they can pocket several million, if not billion, dollars in government subsidies. We have the direct capabilities of making man corn, wheat, soy and cotton-based products at a much lower price as it is – regardless of distributors.

The Trading Post in this game pales in comparison to any “real world” anecdotes, since it’s pretty much just an online retailer with an endless supply of production. I’d love to see this game have poultry or red meat shortages because of how frequently we slaughter the animals, that way the market can fluctuate with realism! Not to mention ore, wood and plant shortages as well. While we’re at it, since we’re busy cutting down all the saplings, our characters should struggle to breathe.

The TP flipping is working exactly as intended and I don’t think it’s that unrealistic or detrimental. I think people simply need to stop buying if they disagree with a price. If a seller sits on their products too long, it’s bound to go down – just like “real world clearance sales.”

Harper.4173:

Cuddy.6247:

Harper.4173:

Cuddy.6247:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Just in case you are confused, the “tools” I am mentioning are any item used to reduce time that it takes to clear a dungeon. The RNG aspect of items dropped from bags does not negate the fact that you tend to make more money if you complete the same dungeon faster (or complete the dungeon more times in the same span of time) than someone who is not speedrunning.

Exactly how does speedclearing improve your rewards? Oh right, it doesn’t. If you want to make more: get a job, get another job, get a better job or play the trading post. Speedclearing is a joke.

Lol.

Speed clearing is easier than learning to play the trading post or getting a job. It is less effective but easier to do.

If you play 3 hours per day and manage to do all dungeons vs half the dungeons in that time then you are more effective.
I’m surprised this needed typing out.

Easier than getting a job? You must be out of your mind, because I get paid a nice wage +benefits and 2/5 days a week I just look up videos on YouTube to pass the time. If getting a job was really that difficult, it wouldn’t be an expectation for every person over the age of 16 to have one.

Once you foot your way through the door, it’s even easier to pick up hours too – take over coworker’s shifts, be a model employee that your boss loves, etc. It’s not difficult. The next time your three hour dungeon tour nets you 250 gold, come talk to me.

Not everyone is of working age. Not everyone lives in a 1st world country. Not everyone has it like you do.

Objectively it is easier to learn to speed clear in GW2 than it is to get qualified, hired and work for a living. There might be some easier jobs – but I fear that for the vast majority my statement stays true.

Anyone who falls within your statement has:

• Bigger problems than Guild Wars 2, such as not having internet or being oppressed.
• A social/school agenda they should be focusing on so they can get a job.
• Disabilities which disqualify them from working and, most likely, being able to perform well in speedclears.
• A life that doesn’t revolve around this game.

Your sentiments hold no validity whatsoever.

Logic doesn’t necessarily apply, but it seems like it’d be a semi-easy way to include a bunch of “new” armor without having to go through the process of design creation. I really don’t see why they can’t tone down the autopilot a little bit to work on stuff like this. It doesn’t even have to be immediate, over two years they could have started this and then, thanks to the unity of all the races against Mordremoth – BAM! – suddenly the cultural armor vendors aren’t so nitpicky on who they sell to.

Bubi.7942:

Cuddy.6247:

Harper.4173:

Cuddy.6247:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Just in case you are confused, the “tools” I am mentioning are any item used to reduce time that it takes to clear a dungeon. The RNG aspect of items dropped from bags does not negate the fact that you tend to make more money if you complete the same dungeon faster (or complete the dungeon more times in the same span of time) than someone who is not speedrunning.

Exactly how does speedclearing improve your rewards? Oh right, it doesn’t. If you want to make more: get a job, get another job, get a better job or play the trading post. Speedclearing is a joke.

Lol.

Speed clearing is easier than learning to play the trading post or getting a job. It is less effective but easier to do.

If you play 3 hours per day and manage to do all dungeons vs half the dungeons in that time then you are more effective.
I’m surprised this needed typing out.

Easier than getting a job? You must be out of your mind, because I get paid a nice wage +benefits and 2/5 days a week I just look up videos on YouTube to pass the time. If getting a job was really that difficult, it wouldn’t be an expectation for every person over the age of 16 to have one.

Once you foot your way through the door, it’s even easier to pick up hours too – take over coworker’s shifts, be a model employee that your boss loves, etc. It’s not difficult. The next time your three hour dungeon tour nets you 250 gold, come talk to me.

We just witnessed the end of gaming everybody.

Visa Meta.

Harper.4173:

Cuddy.6247:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Just in case you are confused, the “tools” I am mentioning are any item used to reduce time that it takes to clear a dungeon. The RNG aspect of items dropped from bags does not negate the fact that you tend to make more money if you complete the same dungeon faster (or complete the dungeon more times in the same span of time) than someone who is not speedrunning.

Exactly how does speedclearing improve your rewards? Oh right, it doesn’t. If you want to make more: get a job, get another job, get a better job or play the trading post. Speedclearing is a joke.

Lol.

Speed clearing is easier than learning to play the trading post or getting a job. It is less effective but easier to do.

If you play 3 hours per day and manage to do all dungeons vs half the dungeons in that time then you are more effective.
I’m surprised this needed typing out.

Easier than getting a job? You must be out of your mind, because I get paid a nice wage +benefits and 2/5 days a week I just look up videos on YouTube to pass the time. If getting a job was really that difficult, it wouldn’t be an expectation for every person over the age of 16 to have one.

Once you foot your way through the door, it’s even easier to pick up hours too – take over coworker’s shifts, be a model employee that your boss loves, etc. It’s not difficult. The next time your three hour dungeon tour nets you 250 gold, come talk to me.

Why do people say “fix” the zerker meta like it’s a problem that needs to be fixed? Several things are already being fixed, such as condition application, condition effectiveness (fire stacks, woo!), strengths and weaknesses of each class (mesmer finally being able to be a tremendous asset through slow every third crit) are being polished. The zerker meta is just that, a meta.

I in no way condone the elitist behavior that sometimes wiggles its way into this forums, but it’s for entirely different reasons than the margin between demographics. How anyone can promote the zerker meta when my debit card has a higher purchasing power than all of your puny meta builds is beyond my understanding.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Just in case you are confused, the “tools” I am mentioning are any item used to reduce time that it takes to clear a dungeon. The RNG aspect of items dropped from bags does not negate the fact that you tend to make more money if you complete the same dungeon faster (or complete the dungeon more times in the same span of time) than someone who is not speedrunning.

Exactly how does speedclearing improve your rewards? Oh right, it doesn’t. If you want to make more: get a job, get another job, get a better job or play the trading post. Speedclearing is a joke.

Orangensaft.7139:

Cuddy.6247:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

the tools are always available to you for use.

And are always kittenblocked by the worst RNG loot tables in all of gaming history.

pls tell me how RNG stops you from using FGS as an elite for movement
or from using sword/warhorn on warrior for skipping parts
or form using ports on thief to be faster for skipping parts
or from using any other weapon/utility for movement to be faster in dungeons

what has RNG to do with these tools ????

Tools are meant to improve performance. Performance can basically be reduced to this: Maximized output for input. The RNG wall effectively kittenblocks any necessity for improved performance. Skipping is not an essential part of efficiency because speedclearing has no real benefit. Please, don’t be dense and try to think for yourself.

Harper.4173:

Cuddy.6247:

Maybe mobility is the problem. Enemies aren’t mobile enough. There’s a reason that PvP and PvE have completely different metas, and most of it has to do with enemy AI in PvE being dumber than horse kitten.

Sure – fair – but the average PVE player doesn’t want to go into PVE and be faced with a PVP or near PVP level of AI challenge.

The average PVE player wants to go in and actually beat something without much effort. If they wanted a lot of effort in their PVE we’d be seeing a lot more FOTM 50 players.

So making the AI behave much more like PVP is only a solution if you aiming at alienating a good portion of the community.

Then you’ll love Reaper. If ANet’s hype stands to reason, the exploitation of PvE AI will be unimaginable.

Maybe mobility is the problem. Enemies aren’t mobile enough. There’s a reason that PvP and PvE have completely different metas, and most of it has to do with enemy AI in PvE being dumber than horse kitten.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

the tools are always available to you for use.

And are always kittenblocked by the worst RNG loot tables in all of gaming history.

Jahroots.6791:

Cuddy.6247:

You know, I don’t even like the idea of comparing time. I don’t think rewards should look like that, ever – any system that benefits based on time investment just benefits a long-time player. I think rewards should scale with the content – somebody who does a level 50 Fractal should get much better rewards than someone who runs AC p123. But as it stands, there’s barely a nickel’s worth of difference between the two – because RNG is RNG and it’s so geared towards carebears that there’s literally not a single good reason to maximize your performance.

Incidentally, we do get quite a few time-based rewards from just logging in and the laurel vendor. Laurels are nothing more than a measure of the frequency of your game play.

Fractals, man….could not agree more about ’em.

Yeah, as much as I enjoy the daily login reward changes and such and all of the laurels – I feel like they’re a bad solution for an existing problem.

Honestly I really doubt that the people believing that there’s lucky/unlucky accounts or that the RNG is borked are on the right track. The problem with this game has been the same problem since day one – RNG is everywhere. I don’t know why it seems to be so difficult to grasp, but I’ve never played a game before GW2 where running the easiest dungeon was just as rewarding as running the hardest dungeon.

VaLee.5102:

Carighan.6758:

an they’re coming to PvE

Wut? Any source on this?

I think it was vaguely mentioned for HoT, although we don’t know the specifics.

Beast Sos.1457:

Kal Spiro.9745:

I’m pretty sure that if you’re doing this all for loot, you’re already failing. If gaining things is your measure for having fun then there are much better ways to find your enjoyment. I also feel sorry for you. You really should be playing games because the games are fun, not because you get things in the game.

There should be better rewards for more complex content, but the rewards are still unimportant. This game isn’t about the gear, it’s about the game. It was intended to be about playing the game since max level and a full set of gear capable of doing any content is easy to achieve.

If you didnt know we’re playing a MMO. A big part of MMOs are the rewards. If the game was about having fun and not getting the next big thing or a bad kitten skin you like then there wouldnt be so many skins in the game to begin with.

Its not just about “fun” its the fact that Anet doesnt appreciate the effort we put in their game. It clearly shows when someone with 70 hours has 2 precursors already dropped for them and someone with 3k+ hours playing since launch hasnt even seen a charzooka.

Like I said before, this is a MMO and when it comes to MMOs rewards are huge. Part of that is the way high quality rewards/loot are obtained, which is terrible in Gw2.

You know, I don’t even like the idea of comparing time. I don’t think rewards should look like that, ever – any system that benefits based on time investment just benefits a long-time player. I think rewards should scale with the content – somebody who does a level 50 Fractal should get much better rewards than someone who runs AC p123. But as it stands, there’s barely a nickel’s worth of difference between the two – because RNG is RNG and it’s so geared towards carebears that there’s literally not a single good reason to maximize your performance.

This is why I always liked WoW and GW1 just a little bit more…at least in those games my effort in the game directly effected the quality of rewards I got.

As it is in this game, I just put more effort toward my job and pick up extra time when I can – because gems to gold conversion is more profiting than playing the game.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I’m pretty sure that if you’re doing this all for loot, you’re already failing. If gaining things is your measure for having fun then there are much better ways to find your enjoyment. I also feel sorry for you. You really should be playing games because the games are fun, not because you get things in the game.

There should be better rewards for more complex content, but the rewards are still unimportant. This game isn’t about the gear, it’s about the game. It was intended to be about playing the game since max level and a full set of gear capable of doing any content is easy to achieve.

Honestly a lot of fun in MMOs is working for your rewards. After 2.5 years, you’ve played the game and experienced it. Now you want the shinies to bling your characters. Having easily acquired max level gear isn’t the same as pursuing aesthetics, toys and BiS. MMOs couldn’t thrive if you didn’t aim for rewards of some kind, but this game is so dependent on luck it offers very little reason to care.

JackSpacer.4320:

So I bought a new account, has less that 2k AP and like 150 hours or so on it? Has about 90% account MF. Let me list off the items I have looted off of just random mobs through his travels to get some world completion done.

Dusk
Tooth of Frostfang
The Hunter
Howl

Now let me list stuff I have gotten from dungeon chests

Dusk x 2

Now let me list what he got out of Silverwastes

The Energizer
Carcharias
Rage
Truth x 2
Dreadwing
Stardust x 4
Tinwail
Charrzooka x 2
Kymswarden
Resonator

yeah, I don’t see any problems at all.

You’re kittenting?

Maybe this is ANet’s way of selling alt accounts.

Even the game confirms this but asura are imps.

Aesthetics.

/15char

The opening sentiments are just, well, problematic. RNG can work exactly as intended and still to be too abysmal and unrewarding to be worth something. Which, in my opinion, is exactly Guild Wars 2’s problem.

This has always been my problem with this game. It’s such a time grind or luck. If doing level 50 fractals actually had a better chance at enriching rewards, I’d be doing them a lot more often. I don’t have any motivation to play anymore though, because it’s just dumb luck whether or not anything good happens to me. For the first time in nearly a year I got an exotic yesterday. It was only worth 5g, but I’ll be kitten ed – I haven’t seen one since last summer.

Hamfast.8719:

L Step.8659:

Probably because it’s the same amount of syllables to say NY or New York, however city has an extra syllable. You hear things like NYPD all the time though.

Like I said, there’s no set-in-stone rule. It either sounds right or it doesn’t, but we don’t get the opportunity to actually hear it said very often. What about the people who use voice chat? What do you guys say?

No set “rules,” no, but in the real world it’s often decided by phonographic experts who then choose to publish shorthand in a magazine, an advertisement, a brochure, etc. Which then catches on and becomes public sentiment. Since there’s likely no editor in charge of appeal at ANet, like there is at a publication, it’s likely they never even bothered to proofread (and why would they…it’s a game, they’re not trying to publish the next Lolita).

To me, all of the ascended swords seem inappropriate for an assassin-esque character. You’d be better off just transmuting it to an exotic skin of better choice.

Despite the discussion about the use of DR. I seem to be bothered by the use of the term “repetitive” in the caption. For the life of me, I can’t see what’s repetitive. Anyone care to enlighten?

Nevermind, I just learned that he says it like every 10 seconds.

Hamfast.8719:

Vayne.8563:

Do you have any idea how many people who live in NYC have never been to the Statue of Liberty? They don’t think about NY as being the melting pot, or the gateway to America, they think about the fact that rents are too high and they work too many hours.

Ahh! I know it isn’t the point you are making, but “NYC” and “NY” are a couple of good examples. You see them in print like that all the time, but I can’t recall ever hearing anyone saying “NY” or “NYC” aloud. It’s always “New York” and “New York City”.

No set-in-stone rule for these things. “DR” just doesn’t sound right to me when I hear it said out loud. As far as I’m concerned, the DR is out.

Number of syllables makes a large difference. As poster mentioned above, NYPD is mentioned often. We also have examples like Las Vegas often being shorthanded into Vegas, because it flows better than “LV.” I’m inclined to think DR should take the same verbal approach, shortened to “The Reach” or something, it would just flow better.

Devata.6589:

Cuddy.6247:

Devata.6589:

I am pretty sure I never said my suggestion would completely remove any grind or faming or reputation completely

Then why purport it as a no-grind philosophy? There’s a clear distinction between grind and RNG, one is a problem in this game – the other isn’t (for those who aren’t caught up to speed, RNG sucks in Guild Wars 2). An answer in a sentence or less would be appreciated, these diatribes of nothing are a bore.

You should ask Anet that? I did not come up with the term ‘no grind philosophy’ all I am saying is that they promote a game with that term and then have an extremely grindy game.

The grind in this game very much is a problem, grind (gold), grind (gold) and grind (gold). You even talk about that yourself I think. That grind is caused by multiple things, one of them being indeed the way RNG works now in this game (drop items from many places but with extreme low drop-rates so in effect you can only get them by grinding gold) and items factually only available from gold.

ANet’s core mantra was expressed in such a way that grind wasn’t involved, but that it wouldn’t take grind to reach max level and complete your favorite content. To so many degrees, they’re correct. It’s not a chore or a grind, at all, to hit level 80, run dungeons, play WvW or even participate in PvP.

It is a grind, however, to continuously fight poor RNG. There’s a direct causal relationship there that, I’m sure, has caused many players to up and leave the game. This is a problem associated with RNG, not grind. These are using established terms to address the raised issue – not arbitrary measurements like “doable.”

The gold grind you keep referring to over and over again is a direct result of RNG, which makes RNG the culprit. It is an RNG that does not favor effort. There is nothing you can do, as a player, to improve your chances of getting a good reward, save play all the time. The very core of the issue is the distribution of rewards and RNG. These are the things you have said without vague descriptors, which I agree with – but I’m trying to make it communicable.

Hopefully this has cracked through your skull by now that there is a difference between grind and poor RNG, which only has a causal relationship with grind and is the source of most of the frustration in this game.

Devata.6589:

I am pretty sure I never said my suggestion would completely remove any grind or faming or reputation completely

Then why purport it as a no-grind philosophy? There’s a clear distinction between grind and RNG, one is a problem in this game – the other isn’t (for those who aren’t caught up to speed, RNG sucks in Guild Wars 2). An answer in a sentence or less would be appreciated, these diatribes of nothing are a bore.

Obtena.7952:

Cuddy.6247:

Obtena.7952:

Cuddy.6247:

In other words, you don’t seem to be against grind at all.

Bingo. He just rides the no grind train to promote his own ideas of what how he actually wants grind implemented in the game. Nice bit of trickery that ay? This isn’t new either. There is at least one other huge thread where this happens and it’s pointed out. Little is different here.

I wouldn’t be so quick to equate manipulation with obscurity. Some people only have vague ideas of what they mean, while having a communicable point – or has the business discussion faded from memory in the last 24 hours?

It’s not faded, there just isn’t anything left to discuss there. I’m not quick to equate … it’s pretty clear. It’s not the first time a no grind thread has been hijacked to push a different grind agenda by this person. It’s not the first time he was informed that he was supporting grinding in a no grind thread.

I can see that now. I translated Devata’s post to a communicable level and there’s still some sort of disagreement.

I’m not going to be eloquent about it, keep trying to hammer in the point if you wish, but I’m done. I’d have better luck talking sense into the Obergefell v. Hodges case. I’ve made my point clear here, I have nothing else to discuss.

Obtena.7952:

Cuddy.6247:

In other words, you don’t seem to be against grind at all.

Bingo. He just rides the no grind train to promote his own ideas of what how he actually wants grind implemented in the game. Nice bit of trickery that ay? This isn’t new either. There is at least one other huge thread where this happens and it’s pointed out. Little is different here.

I wouldn’t be so quick to equate manipulation with obscurity. Some people only have vague ideas of what they mean, while having a communicable point – or has the business discussion faded from memory in the last 24 hours?

Some of the best examples I can think of from Guild Wars 1 are things like DoASC or Underworld solo farming. You could play for eight hours a day if you wanted, but unless you were doing this endgame content, you weren’t going to get as much money as someone else who did.

I don’t have an option to go solo Underworld in this game though to grab ectos. I don’t have an option to run an elite dungeon and acquire something that’s the rough equivalent of a black lion claim ticket. I don’t have the option to speedrun Bogroot Growths to get froggy scepters. In fact, I don’t have any options whatsoever. I don’t benefit from playing effectively, I have to deal with a kittenty RNG that is the same, regardless of what I do. There’s nothing I can do, as a player, to improve my income – to improve my rewards…save just play all the time; but as a working class citizen, that’s not an option.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

I like the idea of specific items to drop from specific content :P
Just like the current ‘’Beta Portal’’ (RNG drop item that lest you participate in the next close Beta , and drops from npcs + events , in 2 specifics areas) .
(while the Precursors can drop from every map in the world – or any other item tha you can hunt or buy from the AH)

I dont believe there is is a huge whine/dishappiness in the forums and ingame about that :P

And we must implant it to the HOT maps too and in the organised Raids (like the ppl in the Raid Megathread wanted!)!
Do it nyawwwww !

(Why me noooo Beta portal dond gett till nyawww ?!? ? Meee give goot freebakk ! Engliss goot noww !!!)

The beta portal is a poor example, though. It’s a beta, it’s meant to be a chance for players to offer feedback. The method they propose only extends to those players who are grinding for the limited availability. It’s effectively cutting one of the largest portions of the playerbase from offering feedback on the content. There is no way you can justify how the beta portal works when the beta is meant to be tested for feedback.

On the other hand, though, I would like to see that same ideology pass on to other drops in this game – improve their drop chances from event chests and mobs in a particular area so that people can narrow down their goals and see achievable results with their effort. When you have a great majority of players, like me, who have accumulated 2,000 hours in 2.5 years with no drops worth more than 25g, it’s time to reevaluate how the RNG in this game works and how they improve it to make it an actual grind and not sheer, dumb luck.

Because at a certain point, the RNG wall just demotivates people from continuing. They grind…and they grind…and they grind…and they grind…and there’s really no reason to keep throwing your stock in RNG when the drop rates are so horrendously low due to a poor distribution of drops since the very start of this game.

Devata.6589:

Cuddy.6247:

Devata.6589:

Cuddy.6247:

Obtena.7952:

Oh I know what he’s referring to. It’s awfully easy to make up stories about points on a graph. All the same thing over and over again. If such a change was so good for the game, Anet would have done it by now. The only thing we see is Anet reinforcing their position on this with craftable precursors in HoT … obviously they don’t agree with the OP or his cheerleading squad.

I agree, ANet’s taking a good route. The precursor hunt seems to be more in-line with more grind and less RNG, which exactly what this game needs more of. Accomplishments for your efforts and not dumb luck. As it sits, far too much depends on your luck in achieving any pecuniary significance. Pure, dumb, unadulterated luck.

Now you could explain this. At this moment getting a precursor mainly means, grind gold and buy it. There is no ‘doable’ RNG / more direct way to get a precursor.

With the new system you will need to do task and get collections. In addition they would make it easier to farm mats.

That seems to be less of a grind and more in the direction I ask for (a more direct way of working towards each other) then the current ‘grind gold’ system.

Sure, the precursor will be so extreme it probably still is a grind (and in fact I did say a few grinds for some very rare items would not be a problem, I guess the precursor is supposed to be this very rare thing) but nonetheless a more direct approach and smaller grind / split into smaller junks again more into the direction of what I am suggesting here.

May I ask, then, what your definition of grind is? Because the new precursor system is most definitively a grind. Grind never hurt games, terrible RNG has. The RNG in this game has become a reckless chore that’s more grindy than it needs to be due to a slackjaw manifesto that ArenaNet should revise and poor reward distribution.

Grind can be a lot, but for me grind (or the worse grind) mainly is if you are grinding for currencies all the time simply to get the item you want and then again and again, slowly seeing a number (the currency) going up, while not have a more direct approach (without some currency) to work towards the item.

Doing a quest or quest-chain to get an item (that belongs to that quest-chain) is not a grind. Doing just some random quest to earn gold to buy the same item is a grind.

Some doable RNG is maybe still a little grindy but because it’s doable it means it’s still a viable option to work directly towards getting the item and it adds the rush of ‘will it drop’ to that ‘grind’ where the currency grind does not.

A fun craft where there is always a next item around the corner you want to make and where mats are not there almost impossible to get items is also not a grind. Getting a specific reward for completing specific challenging content (think Liadri) is also not a grind.

That should give you a good idea of what I see as (bad) grind and what not.

I do agree the precursor crafting will likely still be grindy simply because it’s so much you need to do. But still I think it’s a step in the right direction because it’s not this never ending gold grind for everything but specific task that eventually lead you towards the precursor. Also pre-cursors are supposed to be very special, if there is some grind for a few items you will not hear me complain. It’s this never ending (gold) grind for almost everything (cosmetic) in this game.

If they would then also add similar systems (but not as extreme) for other items then.. well then you would have what I have been asking for.

In other words, you don’t seem to be against grind at all. Like the rest of the unhappy folk, though, you’re tired of the grind associated with the terrible RNG. Might be a good time to sit down, think over all of the terms you’re using, what they mean and what your proposals actually are.

As you stated, you’re against the gold grind – which problematic because value and income in this game is a total RNG fest, there’s little in the name of stable income unless you count the gold reward at the end of each dungeon path; and there’s certainly no stability to be had in drop rate assurances. So, by a rational conclusion, you’re against the RNG system in this game.

At least, it makes much more sense to consider it that way.

Devata.6589:

Cuddy.6247:

Jelle.2807:

Just popping in to say I don’t mind the grind really. So long as it’s for marginal stat increase (ascended gear) or cosmetics, yeah ’s fine by me.

What I don’t like is excessive RNG. I would rather grind for something I know will, for example take me 20 hours to complete, rather than something random that’ll take an average of 15 hours, but might also take 50 hours if you’re unlucky. When effort does not match reward, things be unfair.
Looking at you precursors.

Yeah this has always kittened me off, and it’s why I liked Guild Wars more than Guild Wars 2. At least in Guild Wars, you had a really good chance of getting Dhuum’s Scythe if you ran UWSC for 4-6 months. Speedrun dungeons, WvW, PvP or even MF gambling for 4-6 months in this game…gives you no good chance at anything, really. It’s a crying shame that you can’t work for your rewards.

Part of the reason I went casual is I spent over a year speedrunning dungeons just to get Dusk to no avail. Money to buy Dusk was acquired and I still never saw a precursor. I spent a year trying. That just seems at a certain point to be unethical in the way they designed RNG. Hell, I still don’t have Sunrise to go with it because I can’t be bothered to buy Dawn or farm against the treadmill anymore. Much like the precursor hunt, though, if there were some sort of way for me to get a reward for my effort rather than banging my head against the wall praying to RNGesus, I will enjoy this game a lot more.

I’m thankful they’re finally coming to grips with replacing RNG with provisional grind.

This is a little strange statement. "Part of the reason I went casual is I spent over a year speedrunning dungeons just to get Dusk to no avail. Money to buy Dusk was acquired and I still never saw a precursor. ".

So if you love grind so much, what was then the problem? You grinded the gold? And the fact that it’s not possible to work directly towards the item you want (other then the gold-grind) is what I talk about all the time. These items for example do indeed drop but with such a extreme low drop-rate that you can’t work towards them anymore leaving grind (for gold) as the only real viable option to get them.

So what you say you dislike results in what you say you like. Reasonable drop-rates lets you also work towards an item. Just as putting items behind specific content does like chest, or putting them behind challenging content or in fun crafts. That are the types of things I am asking for. But would decrease the grind.

You say you are happy with more grind because that allows you to work towards something.. yes in the same was as it already does ‘grind gold, grind gold’ but at the same time you say you like the ‘change to grind’ because you dislike the current RNG system… that results in grind.

So what is it? You liked it that you had to grind gold for your legendary and want more of that? Or you dislike the grind and want less of it???

I like grind. I dislike the idea of not being rewarded for my grind. Hell, I can’t even reasonably farm in Silverwastes or EotM and achieve much money. I spent maybe 8 hours the other day in EotM on my day off and walked away with a grand total of like 25 gold. That’s absurd. I can get more gold by grabbing a second job.

I’m not an advocate against grind, I really hate the idea of removing grind from this game – it means there is no achievements to earn. I want my effort to be directly correlated in the rewards I earn, and that simply doesn’t exist anymore. Too many things (the Halloween weapon skins, precursors, minipets, black lion tickets, dyes, gathering nodes) are all a wonderful (sarcasm) RNG fest that have no effort to reward ratio. Unlike, e.g., Arah armor or Lumi/Carapace – which you can earn by just putting some effort into the game.

Obtena.7952:

You can split hairs if you like and convince yourself crafted precursors are a move away from gold/mat earning. Anet creating craftable precursors is just supporting their current approach to the game and will be as much about earning gold and mats to get it as anything else. That’s the ‘grind’ that people are QQing about. I don’t see how anything has changed.

Well, people don’t assume that the precursor collections will be as much of a RNG demon as drops are. I, admittedly, fall within that category and I should probably feel bad for taking a presumptuous stand. Still, being rewarded for one’s efforts, as grindy as it may be, is more rewarding than a RNG grind – which ends up being too pervasive and demoralizing. Hell, I’m sure if people could even guarantee an exotic from completing, say, Orr paths, people would be doing those more often than they do now. Yet, as it stands, there’s no guarantee of anything – there’s nothing you can possibly do other than kill any champion or any foe and get a shot at what you want.

That’s just…not feasible.

Devata.6589:

Cuddy.6247:

Obtena.7952:

Oh I know what he’s referring to. It’s awfully easy to make up stories about points on a graph. All the same thing over and over again. If such a change was so good for the game, Anet would have done it by now. The only thing we see is Anet reinforcing their position on this with craftable precursors in HoT … obviously they don’t agree with the OP or his cheerleading squad.

I agree, ANet’s taking a good route. The precursor hunt seems to be more in-line with more grind and less RNG, which exactly what this game needs more of. Accomplishments for your efforts and not dumb luck. As it sits, far too much depends on your luck in achieving any pecuniary significance. Pure, dumb, unadulterated luck.

Now you could explain this. At this moment getting a precursor mainly means, grind gold and buy it. There is no ‘doable’ RNG / more direct way to get a precursor.

With the new system you will need to do task and get collections. In addition they would make it easier to farm mats.

That seems to be less of a grind and more in the direction I ask for (a more direct way of working towards each other) then the current ‘grind gold’ system.

Sure, the precursor will be so extreme it probably still is a grind (and in fact I did say a few grinds for some very rare items would not be a problem, I guess the precursor is supposed to be this very rare thing) but nonetheless a more direct approach and smaller grind / split into smaller junks again more into the direction of what I am suggesting here.

May I ask, then, what your definition of grind is? Because the new precursor system is most definitively a grind. Grind never hurt games, terrible RNG has. The RNG in this game has become a reckless chore that’s more grindy than it needs to be due to a slackjaw manifesto that ArenaNet should revise and poor reward distribution.

Devata.6589:

Yeah almost as easy as to dismiss it by saying “you can’t proof it would work”. And the “if it was good Anet would have done it” fits in the Anet knows everything, they did not do it so it can’t be good. What is of course false. Many companies (including Anet) made mistakes, sometime came back on them, sometimes not.

Much as I’ve been telling Obtena: where’s your authority? Have you actually run the metrics of the players (not just a comparison with Guild Wars, which had low showcase compared to Guild Wars 2…the launch sales and retention metrics between GW and GW2 are astronomically different)? If you have, care to share with the class? GW2’s system works, it achieves the desired result and the dividends are what they expect them to be (you can’t rationally assume that every player that bought the game will continue playing. In fact, a 35-45% retention rate is good in the gaming industry).

Genuinely would love to see the math and business administration these ideologies seem to be proposing without evidence.

Obtena.7952:

Cuddy.6247:

You’re saying it’s a gamble as if projections can’t be made within reason. If I had a week with ANet’s fiscal reports, history and player metrics, I could offer an annual projection over the course of 2016 if HoT included less “grind.” (Although this game isn’t that grindy, it’s just based on RNG, which in itself becomes a chore because effort != success). I’m not going to do this, I’m just saying anyone with business experience could. Gambling has nothing to do with it.

And assuming Anet has same competent people, they have done the same and come to the conclusion that they aren’t going that direction, yet we see the same cheerleaders for no grind waving their pompoms. It is a gamble to implement something that would be seen as disruptive to your core market and unless you need a miracle, there is no reason to do so.

Projections are rarely done, it’s a waste of time to project annual reports on hypotheticals when there’s no projected loss in dividends. ArenaNet would have to be incompetent to make a projection of the less grind proposals in threads like this. That doesn’t mean any tailoring would be a bad thing, in fact – it could be beneficial, they likely haven’t run the metrics to know. The reason? Because dividends fall within expectations. As it goes: Don’t fix what ain’t broke. There’s no correlation with benefit/harm and the decision making process, though, if the decisions yield expected results.

Jelle.2807:

Just popping in to say I don’t mind the grind really. So long as it’s for marginal stat increase (ascended gear) or cosmetics, yeah ’s fine by me.

What I don’t like is excessive RNG. I would rather grind for something I know will, for example take me 20 hours to complete, rather than something random that’ll take an average of 15 hours, but might also take 50 hours if you’re unlucky. When effort does not match reward, things be unfair.
Looking at you precursors.

Yeah this has always kittened me off, and it’s why I liked Guild Wars more than Guild Wars 2. At least in Guild Wars, you had a really good chance of getting Dhuum’s Scythe if you ran UWSC for 4-6 months. Speedrun dungeons, WvW, PvP or even MF gambling for 4-6 months in this game…gives you no good chance at anything, really. It’s a crying shame that you can’t work for your rewards.

Part of the reason I went casual is I spent over a year speedrunning dungeons just to get Dusk to no avail. Money to buy Dusk was acquired and I still never saw a precursor. I spent a year trying. That just seems at a certain point to be unethical in the way they designed RNG. Hell, I still don’t have Sunrise to go with it because I can’t be bothered to buy Dawn or farm against the treadmill anymore. Much like the precursor hunt, though, if there were some sort of way for me to get a reward for my effort rather than banging my head against the wall praying to RNGesus, I will enjoy this game a lot more.

I’m thankful they’re finally coming to grips with replacing RNG with provisional grind.

Obtena.7952:

Cuddy.6247:

Obtena.7952:

Cuddy.6247:

Obtena.7952:

Fair enough … then I’m going to apply the same standards to the guy QQing about too much grind and claiming it’s going to improve the game if it’s removed. He’s not reading any metrics and making correlations either, except those he has invented in his head to convince him it will make the game better. The difference is that I’m not claiming it would be better, it’s status quo and status quo ain’t bad in this case.

If that’s the logic you want to argue with, then it’s better the devil you know than the one you don’t, especially if Anet’s shareholders don’t seem to have a problem with it.

ArenaNet is a private incorporation. And, as I stated, there’s no correlation between status quo and success. While you’re certainly free to argue ideologies, unless someone here is going to start dissecting these metrics – it’s all an asspull whether or not it’s a business decision.

Is it? I would love to see that because I couldn’t actually locate their corporate information. AFIAK, they are wholly owned by NCSoft.

If that’s actually the case, little changes except who the company answers to. It’s still there to make money and not gamble with their investments on chance nonsense.

ArenaNet is a subsidiary to NCSoft. Being a subsidiary of NCSoft differs quite radically from being a division of NCSoft. ArenaNet is entirely independent though and, based on the company’s history, I’d dare say NCSoft gives them a long leash in experimental try-outs.

OK .. they still aren’t going to gamble their resources to placate people. Worth saying again … craftable precursors.

You’re saying it’s a gamble as if projections can’t be made within reason. If I had a week with ANet’s fiscal reports, history and player metrics, I could offer an annual projection over the course of 2016 if HoT included less “grind.” (Although this game isn’t that grindy, it’s just based on RNG, which in itself becomes a chore because effort != success). I’m not going to do this, I’m just saying anyone with business experience could. Gambling has nothing to do with it.

Obtena.7952:

Oh I know what he’s referring to. It’s awfully easy to make up stories about points on a graph. All the same thing over and over again. If such a change was so good for the game, Anet would have done it by now. The only thing we see is Anet reinforcing their position on this with craftable precursors in HoT … obviously they don’t agree with the OP or his cheerleading squad.

I agree, ANet’s taking a good route. The precursor hunt seems to be more in-line with more grind and less RNG, which exactly what this game needs more of. Accomplishments for your efforts and not dumb luck. As it sits, far too much depends on your luck in achieving any pecuniary significance. Pure, dumb, unadulterated luck.