Guild Wars 2

Doni.3402:

Underwater:
At the moment it is not possible to use any of the Scourge skills underwater.

Good thing we’re going to a desert : D

Svarty.8019:

I can’t get a thief to stand on it, let alone get him to stand on it for 10 seconds.

So you can make an area of ground a thief won’t go to and stand in the middle of it? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Charrbeque.8729:

I prefer flesh golem, ’cause minions are cool.

Seriously, some of you necros need to chill out.

I like you.

They’ve almost always been disconnected, so changes to one usually take a patch or two to hit the other. It’s definitely not the same spell ID.

GS works fine in sPvP. It’s “viable” up to and into Legendary. Don’t let the necro forums get you down. <3

Good find!

15characters

Another patch, another set of necrovereactions.

I’m pretty happy with these changes.

The “Rise!” nerf was coming eventually. I’m amazed it wasn’t sooner.

Kadin.2356:

I got sick of my damage being less in shroud if I switched when dagger was out.

This shouldn’t be the case, unless RS has been changed recently to not count as wielding a hammer.

What if Necro receives no balance patch notes at all? : O

Yannir.4132:

NCSY feels more valuable to me for this build than Suffer or YAAW. Suffer would be redundant since I already have enough condi clears and chills. YAAW actually interests me a bit but I kinda have enough might already, so the only additional advantage would be the weakness.

That +5s window from NCSY where all of my attacks are unblockable is just too good to pass up though. It totally destroys mesmers, guardians and revenants when you manage to keep the pressure up. Mesmer clones usually work for you since there are more targets for your shouts.

Sounds good! I’ll give it a shot in some games. : D

NeXeD.3042:

Dead.5829:

You won’t need Soul Marks if you have Blighter’s and Unholy Feast. Axe without dagger offhand is fine if you’re running Consume Conditions AND Plague Signet. You might also try Spiteful Spirit instead of Close to Death if you zone into a game with a thief.

How much have you tested the other shouts in place of NCSY?

Looks as though he’s going for an unblockable build, changing soul marks and ncsy would get rid of all his unblockable attacks.

Possibly! I’d still be interested in seeing the results of an “unblockable” build vs one with other shouts. How often does NCSY allow you to finish off someone? How often does it let you transfer conditions you might otherwise not have been able to? How often does it save your bacon? Do you notice the difference in damage with the vuln stacks? Do you wish you had even more condi transfer? Would you rather have another stun break, etc.

You won’t need Soul Marks if you have Blighter’s and Unholy Feast. Axe without dagger offhand is fine if you’re running Consume Conditions AND Plague Signet. You might also try Spiteful Spirit instead of Close to Death if you zone into a game with a thief.

How much have you tested the other shouts in place of NCSY?

Even at base scaling, it’s a decent trait. Chilling Victory and the Spite line go a long way to making it strong.

It’s just nowhere near as ridiculous as it was on HoT release (which was OP), and it scales terribly with healing power, so you see the best bang for your buck when you have none of it.

And doesn’t match the tooltip!

I have less of an issue with the Deathly Chill and CttB changes, but would like to see the field on RS5 changed back to be longer, so we can interface with it more organically, especially since Frost Armor/Aura means more than ever for a DC build. Right now, the field doesn’t last long enough unless you were melee range when you turned on shroud (no shroud→charge→drop field→spin→charge as easily anymore).

I disagree with 3A, but I basically love YSiM and all the life force it gains me. If anything, I would like to see the lifesteal hits from Augury be bigger.

3B I can agree with simply because equivalent abilities on other professions are so good. Rise! performs double duty by popping traps and soaking up aoe hits (a double edged double duty…) along with reducing damage taken directly, though, so I’m not sure it needs much in terms of tweaking. I’d like to see it work with the condi transfer from Necromantic Corruption, though.

Never picked by anyone ever

Thanks for using numbers Glacial!

I guess we should have figured that would be the case. :P

Basically, Spiteful Spirit all over again.

Generating (or expending) LF is integral to Necro weapons/utilities. As much as people here dislike the idea that LF is our form of dodging/blocking/invuln, it is. With that in mind, basically every weapon needs to produce LF in some way. This generation can’t really be taken into account when comparing the skill to another class’s ranged skill.

Being a projectile comes with its own issue of not working alongside the combo system.

Range, damage, and side effect are all lacking from it.

For the trait, Is the actual hit higher than the tooltip? The latter is certainly lower than the weapon’s version of the skill.

Julius Seizure.4985:

So why is this GRANDMASTER TRAIT not 4-5 stacks of bleed for 2-3 seconds, so that it at least has some semblance of matching the DPS of the old chill damage?

That would be the difference between adjusting for mechanics versus a flat out nerf.

4 bleeds for 2s on every chill application would lead to some pretty ridiculous burst numbers.

You know, like what burn-Guardians can put out : D

I think the main issue with our lifesteals is the scaling and reliance on many small hits.

If I’m running around with middling power and swing my greatsword at someone, I’ll see an ok number, but nothing impressive. If I put on a zerker amulet, str runes, and swing it at someone, I see big, impressive numbers.

If I equip some lifestealing traits, have middling healing power and am stabbing things with my dagger, I see a lot of piddly numbers come in. This doesn’t change if I equip more power or more healing. I see roughly the same numbers coming in.

If I put on my greatsword, a cleric’s amulet, and go hit something, I don’t see a BIG number come in. I see… the same numbers as I had with the dagger, just much less of them. Same if I put on more power. The damage portion of the lifesteal doesn’t become more impressive.

They need to scale better, and they need to match the weapon they’re being used with. If I stack a bunch of healing power, and attack a bunch of times quickly, I should get a decent amount of healing out of that window, in the form of a bunch of heals.

If I stack a bunch of power and healing power, then slam someone with a Gravedigger for a few thousand damage, I should get a big, fat lifesteal damage and healing number popping up.

If I stack a bunch of condi damage, and slap a fat wad of bleeds on a target, I should get some decent level of healing over time rolling in. Or a quality amount of damage added to my dots / or added to the strike of the condi weapon, based on my condi damaage (this last section would require that the lifesteals have dual scaling though or be split between differing traits : /).

This would also help prevent Blood Magic builds from suffering with the dearth of stats available. You could stack power, condi damage, and healing power, be able to sustain yourself and allies, and still do ok damage. And the build has the same effectiveness with any weapon wielded, not just dagger being far and away the best.

Brokensunday.4098:

Dead.5829:

Brokensunday.4098:

axe dagger and gs need a buff now

Nah, the numbers coming out of the dps testings are good, right?

R…right?

they are fair not good or great =[

I’m not sure I would call fair any numbers necros are putting up other than horror-abuse condi. They’re all pretty abysmal . Unless I’ve missed some. In which case, links please! : D

Zenith.7301:

Power reapers need help in PvE as well, especially raids.

Is the Reaper traitline what’s holding them back, or the base values on weapons, or the damage mods from Necro traitlines?

Anchoku.8142:

The only weapons I do not feel compelled to trait are greatsword, dagger, horn and staff. Perhaps that means something.

Maybe that when they tease “buffs to Reaper traitlines”, Soul Eater should be one to receive them? :P

I still enjoy my GS, but even I can’t find Soul Eater viable compared to the other 2 options in its column.

Brokensunday.4098:

axe dagger and gs need a buff now

Nah, the numbers coming out of the dps testings are good, right?

R…right?

Drakril.4058:

Staff – 3/5 Swap (proc sigil or hydromancy) (3 bleeds)

But how many would you get with a geomancy sigil?

Drakril.4058:

RS#5/4/3/3/2 (13-14 bleeds (if traited in curses to chill on blind) 12-13 if not traited)
Utility – Flesh wurm & /GG

Are you also traited into curses in general during this, or only when using Chilling Darkness?

RS4 always felt like it was cruising for a nerf. Is there any other whirl in the game that lasts nearly so long?

A better test for you would be to compare the number of seconds you can keep something chilled compared to how many applications of chill you can cause (and its subsequent bleed time) in that time, and the disparity of ramp-up time [and what you have to give up in order to gain those chill applications].

If testing for pvp, you also need to play it in situations where you are being hit while having Frost Armor/Aura up (ie: not just hitting a dummy) and in situations where your bolts, etc. are being caught by something other than your intended target.

I’m not disparaging a build.

I’m saying I’m not sure of a good benchmark for determining a good build, but getting to legendary this last season doesn’t seem to be it (because of how easy doing so was).

I used axe with varying offhands almost all last season.

You know why limited counterplay doesn’t really matter for it? It doesn’t do enough damage to warrant people counterplaying it. Any other ranged class can stand stock-still and just fight back with their ranged weapon to go through your higher hp pool before you go through theirs. Also, what flow said. Just because it goes through a projectile deflection wall, or a DH’s screen, doesn’t mean it’s just impossible for them to play around.

Axe 2 doesn’t need a slowing effect. It needs damage, vuln application, or lifesteal. The auto could use more damage or a faster attack speed (i’d vote the latter for faster vuln stacking).

Axe 3 actually doesn’t feel like it needs a lower casting time and at least one stack of retal even if you don’t hit at target (for fighting high-evasion classes). Outside of those issues, it’s pretty fantastic, especially in concert with Blighter’s Boon (same with Spiteful Spirit).

My biggest issue outside the lackluster auto and 2 was that I kept having to go back to an offhand that didn’t feel synergistic with axe. Given the prevalence of condition damage, I found myself gravitating to the dagger offhand in order to both transfer off conditions, and put weakness up. Would be super if Focus could be paired with axe adequately (possibly with a condi transfer on axe2).

Legendary this last season felt very, very easy.

I’m not sure it’s the best benchmark. What is? I… don’t even know.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Just make deathly chill apply 1-2 stacks of burn, he’ll change the trait to call it frost bite or freezer burn. Would fix all our problems. Bleed is just dump and was a way to get us out of the spotlight.

I don’t even agree with this, but I’ll support it for the name change to Freezer Burn. +1

Krysard.1364:

You guessed right, now theres no GM worth taking for PvP

Have you done some pvp since the patch?

Maybe not a removal, but a reduction.

I think the biggest issue for pvp is that it fights with Plague Sending for a slot, as you said. But I could see a lot of bleeds coming out from this having no internal cd whatsoever, in both pvp and pve. But hey, maybe that’s a good thing?

Brighteluden.2974:

That explanation is horrible. There is no way one stack of bleeding for 8 seconds after applying chill is a DPS add compared to what it use to be before. It’s like they’re trying to cover up their kitten by making some lame excuses to make it seem like this is a “buff”.

The dev’s point is that Deathly Chill is supposed to add dps when you chill targets, not that the new DC is a better version of the old.

For those testing this change, what are the parameters you’re testing under? I was able to get a couple of spvp games in last night, and noticed some pretty high bleed ticks from people hitting me while I have frost armor on, the whirled ice bolts, etc., and I could add in even more spammed chills without feeling inefficient, letting me cover gaps in cleanses to keep the debuff up.

That said, I did notice them get cleansed a couple of times, saw the difference in “burstiness” (especially with a terror + spectral wall build), and most of all – found the reduced ice field duration to mess with my ability to reliably get both whirl and leap finishers off in it. This is mostly due to using shroud->charge as an opening move or to reengage after being CCed. The new duration of the frozen field is disappointing.

Are you looking for a WvW build, or spvp?

I definitely disagree that condi bomber reaper was the only viable ranked build O_o.

Have you run the numbers on the new bleed per chill application? How do they compare as time and skill use continue?

Cecilia.5179:

Reaper just lost most of what made it worthwhile.

Hyperbole : /

No change to axe.

No selfish, or at least solo-beneficial Blood Magic grandmaster trait unless you use wells, which were admittedly buffed.

No GS changes; no Soul Eater buff.

The cast time and healing mechanism of Reaper’s Touch still doesn’t feel good. Regen is unimpressive, especially when it does nothing through Shroud.

Spinal Shivers buff is solid!

Well cooldown reductions are solid

Oh yeah, no shroud (of either type) changes other than a nerf to Infusing Terror, the freezing field of Scythe, and the procs of Soul Spiral. I made it through last season without using Soul Reaping, but Vital Persistence’s cd reduction on shroud skills just became an even bigger deal. Lifeblast remains pewp-tastic.

Deathly Swarm change feels good, except that should have been a decrease in the casting point (is it actually?).

Deathly Chill feels back to its Beta Week 1 status of being too weak. It also incentivizes spamming chills. So while chill durations were nerfed, we’ll now want to take more chill procs, leaving us back where we started? At least it procs Blood Bond more easily?

Looks like my power BM build is staying basically the same for the next season.

Reaper could have used some retuning, for sure, but everything outside of it in the profession still feels so, so wonky compared to that of other proffs. There’s a lot of fantastic stuff in the other areas of this patch, but am I the only one wondering if they put the shackles on Gee, or that we’re going to have to wait for the next expansion to see the same level of testing→feedback→change loops we saw in the beta weekends?

YSiM and Blighter’s Boon for lifeforce before that first engagement are clutch.

Rise is fantastic for dealing with DH traps as well.

Gravedigger aftercast needs either a massive reduction or removal. Its DPS and functionality are deceptively bad due to this, in the same way Lifeblast’s are.

Reaper runes are poor, especially if you’re already running Suffer and a GS. I’d run Trooper, like Drarnor posited for team support, Strength(Hoelbrek) for max damage, or Lyssa to drop a bunch of condis at once with your CttB and the synergy with your low cooldown heal.

I would swap the sigils of blood for Strength, since you’re running Blighter’s Boon. You’ll probably end up getting more healing and damage out of them.

On your GS, I would run Sigil of Agility for the weapon swap → Gravedigger hits. It will breathe new life into that weapon. If you switch amulets to something with less precision (valk), then also swap in a Sigil of Intelligence for guaranteed Gravedigger crits.

As for your amulet, you may want to switch to Valk or Marauder if you feel you’re missing punch. Zerker amulet can be fun, but you will die to a stiff wind.

Spiteful Spirit is an underrated trait, especially combined with Blighter’s Boon. If you notice a lack of ability to finish people off, though, definitely switch to Close to Death.

Pretty fun build!

Starting your first fight with 5-12% life force is preeeeetty nice.

When I’m running Curses, so have Plague Sending, I use NCSY.

Salamander.2504:

I wanted to start small, hoping the dev’s might take more easily take notice to this one aspect. As mentioned, I feel this change would make the GS somewhat viable in casual+ PvP, but of course it still has a lot of room for improvement. But please feel free to share your other ideas to improve the GS QoL.

Haha, fair. I think the issue with saying this is “all” the GS needs, so that devs start on it, is one of moving goalposts.

I think this change would be fantastic, and would be a great way to improve the weapon, specs that use it, and Death Spiral’s role (initiating and setting up other skills).

I think the weapon could either use better hybridization (especially with the backlash against Chill of Death) through more condi application. At this point, I’m willing to sacrifice Soul Eater to change the weapon’s role up (gs skills cause bleeding? gravedigger causes burning?).

While I’d love Grasping Darkness to work reliably, there seem to be engineering difficulties for that. As stands, I would like a slightly lower cd or even longer range. I could give up on that idea if the original Death Spiral suggestion was put in (since you could use it to leap toward your target and then throw a Grasp).

Gravedigger aftercast needs to go. Not only does it feel clunky, it holds the dps (and the recharge mechanic) back. Is anyone actually worried this is going to lead to too high of damage when power necro is still lackluster in pve, and not super impressive in pvp?

I absolutely love Nightfall, but people have voiced the desire to see it blind every second. I don’t know if that’s necessary, but the volume of requests substantiate further research.

The auto doesn’t bother me much, but I’d love for something more dynamic from it. A water field that can be comboed with Gravedigger, perhaps. A self buff for each of the first two hits in the chain, possibly being quickness (op, most likely) or a slowly building cast speed increase.

While this would be great, I’m curious why this would be “all” that needs to be done to the GS?

The weapon still has a lot of QoL changes that could be done to it.